Two arms and a headcase?
Hey Guys, this is The Cheat from South Side Sox. I thought I should stop by to give a late recap on the guys the A's just acquired...
Gio Gonzalez -- Drafted in the supplemental round of the '04 draft, Gio was a mid-first-round talent who fell because of (unfounded) makeup concerns. His mother tried to use his obvious talent to garner more playing time for his younger brother. When she held him out of practice, he was kicked off his HS team and his draft stock took a hit. When the Sox picked him up in the supplemental round, they left their mic open on the draft conference call. You could hear the room celebrate him falling to the Sox and one unknown person exclaim "He could start in Kanny (Sox Low-A affiliate) right now."
He domintated the low minors with his fastball curveball combo, but hit a speedbump in '06 when he was in the Phillies organization. This season he has worked very hard on his changeup, which is now described as average-to-fringy with average as it's upside, and actually left strikeouts on the table as he worked to develop the change and work deeper in games (You'll notice he only averaged about 5 innings a start in '06 and not much more in '07.)
He's got a decent fastball, which can supposedly touch 93, but he's mostly sat at about 90 when I've seen him. He's very adept at climbing the ladder, pitching up and out of the strike zone with a purpose. It's pretty straight, and will probably get hit hard if he doesn't continue to develop his change, or add a cutter/2-seamer.
His curveball is plus pitch, maybe plus plus since he's a lefty. Like Barry Zito, Gio's curveball makes his fastball (specifically the high fastball) better. This is his bread and butter pitch, and though it's not as big of a breaker as Zito or Rich Hill's (the next biggest breaking LHer I can think of) it's got a good combination of roll and bite.
There is a lot made of lack of height. He is shorter than advertized, but I'm not sure that will be what makes or breaks him. In my opinion it will be his ability to throw strikes and his ability to learn how to attack major league hitters. He'll be a back-end starter for sure, with 2-3 starter as his peak.
Fautino De Los Santos (DLS to us at SSS) -- DLS was not on anyone's radar as late as spring training '07. He made the Kannapolis (low-A) team only as a reliever. He struck out 10 in his first 5 innings pitch, which led to a spot start, during which he struck out double digits, and he never looked back.
He had an injury scare (shoulder) around the All-star break, coming out of a game early and throwing out of the bullpen for a bit to ease his workload. But the Sox allowed him to throw in the Futures Game (across the bay), and he made all his starts down the stretch. The futures game (1 inning) was the only time I've ever seen him pitch, but that was enough for me to believe in his future, which I recapped here. Cliff notes version: Woah, DLS has an awesome breaking ball. Wow. Justin Upton is good. Suck it Lillibridge, Ellsbury, Longoria!
Right now DLS is a two pitch pitcher. He's got a tailing fastball that sits at 93-94, and can touch the high 90's. He threw it well in the bottom of the zone in the lone inning I've seen of him. Listening to a number of his games this year, he was routinely holding or adding to his velocity late in the game. It was routine to hear him hitting 97+ in the 7th and 8th innings of games.
He also throws a slider/slurve, which is just nasty. I'm not a scout, but it looks like at least a 70 on the 20-80 scale, and I'm being conservative. He's got a tight slider at about 80-81 MPH, which is just about unhittable, and a more slurvy sweeping slider in the mid-to-high 70's that may have been him just failing to get the proper rotation on the ball.
He's supposedly working on a change, which he will need to be a starter at the major league level. But he could pitch in the late innings of any teams bullpen right now. His fastball/slider combo is the same aresenal that Carlos Marmol used to buzzsaw his way to top set-up man status in '07. He could start the '08 season in AA and be ready by '09, or he could take a while to develop. It's too early to tell, but he's got loads of upside.
Ryan Sweeney Sweeney was the Sox second rounder behind Brian Anderson in '03. The Sox pushed him too hard, as the only exceptional thing about his stats was his age relative to league average. Now with two full seasons at AAA, '08 will be a make or break season for Sweeney.
Sweeney has always been a favorite of scouts. He carries a big frame a legit 6'4", and a sweet swing that is supposed to project power. I have bought into this in the past and can still see him eventually hitting 20 HR in a season at the major leagues, but he's got to show improvement in '08 for that to happen.
Sweeney stagnated in '07, but he didn't really regress. I know his numbers from look like they've dropped off from '06 to '07, but he had the exact same AAA OPS in late July a wrist injury zapped all his power/bat speed. His late season stats were abysmal. and it continued this fall. He went until the final days of the AFL season (75 at-bats) before recording an extra-base hit in the Arizona air.
I would still have a ton of confidence in Sweeney were it not for a few quotes that I've heard from him since about mid-season. He's complained, for lack of a better word, without overtly complaining, about not getting a fair shot at the big leagues and has seemed downright satisfied with his AAA numbers. It's one thing to be driven to make the major league club, but Sweeney almost seems like he expects a major league spot to be held open for him...
For his sake, I like the move to Oakland. He's a streaky hitter who is at his best when he's "seeing the ball the 60 feet." You can tell when he's about to go on one of his hot streaks based on his walk totals. When the walk rate starts to spike so does his power. If the A's can get him to really work on his plate discipline, I can forsee him making great strides in '08.
I don't project him to hit for power at the major leagues before his 25th birthday, but his ability to play an average center field (though he projects as a corner outfielder long-term) would make his bat passable on a big league club should he add some more plate discipline.
In addition to plate discipline, Sweeney needs to learn how to get around on the inside pitch. Major league pitcher quickly discovered Sweeney couldn't hurt them when they went inside on him. This will likely be the one area that is holding him back from being an Alex Rios or Nick Markakis type hitter and lead many to bring up the name nobody wants to hear, Sean Burroughs.
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Thanks for this
Great diary.
Full Disclosure
I sponsored Sweeney's Baseball-Reference page in '07 and chose not to renew it because I thought I jinxed him. I've been a big fan of his in the past, but his recent comments have soured my view on him as much as his recent poor performance.
Great post...
thanks for the info. It feels a bit better after reading all the info coming in on the 3 guys coming over. Most people around here are just pissed because one of our favorite players to watch just got dumped for prospects about 4 years sooner than expected. Good insight though, I'll look forward to seeing these guys in Sacramento.
by TerrenceLongsTaint on Jan 3, 2008 9:47 PM PST reply actions
Very informative diary
And a reason I love AN is diaries like this.
It's good to hear some optimism about Sweeney who from most sources I'd heard from was really a throw in. His age (which is one of the first stats to look at for a prospect) was really the only thing for me to get excited about. If he becomes a Nick Markakis or an Alexis Rios, which I know are your "perfect world" scenarios, I would be ecstatic. It's great to hear from a fan who has seen these players play. Thanks for this diary!
Thanks, Cheat -
Great to hear such in-depth analysis from someone with far more knowledge about these guys than I have. Much appreciated.
Cheat
this was good info and very fun to read. I enjoyed your front page commentary on the WS blog too. You write well. I am going to check back and see what your readers think of Nick after they see him play for the team. Kudos for the nice diary.
Awesome, Cheat
Thanks for volunteering this and doing it without being prompted or asked. I think you guys are going to love Swisher. He's a nice piece to go along with what you have there already. He won't put you over the top, but he's going to make the offense better.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2008 11:26 PM PST reply actions
Nice post
Also, the thread on this trade on SSS is good reading.
The Sox know what works for Gio, and how to coach him, but also feel like he doesn't have much of a big league future. When they re-acquired him, I believed they knew he could be a valuable trading chip, and they could get him for cheap after a so-so AA trip with Philly. There was a reason he never got the call up to AAA, because they were scared about the value hit he could have possibly had...
by Tony82087 on Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 10:49:59 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Hopefully, this isn't true, or the WS eval is incorrect.
When I saw the subject line..
..I was going to come here and say, "screw you, Negator! 'Head case' this!"..
But then I read it and realized it was a great freaking analysis. Kudos.
I join the others in thanking you
which is why I like the Blogs so much, more info from people other than sportswriters who know almost nothing.
by china bob on Jan 4, 2008 7:59 AM PST reply actions
It seems like KW
Actually had a pretty decent plan with Gio. Acquire him while his value was a bit low after only a decent showing at AA Reading, put him back at AA, pump up his value with some gaudy numbers then move him again.
From the As perspective, lets hope those numbers were more than just Gio feasting on lesser experienced hitters. I personally think he'll make a solid 3 guy, as The Cheat rightly noted the key is his command.
DLS appears to be the wild card of the deal. He has a ton of potential, I wouldn't be surprised to see him climb up a lot of prospect lists this coming season.
I don't like Sweeney and learning of his attitude problems only further dampens my waning enthusiasm for him.
by Sigur Ros on Jan 4, 2008 8:26 AM PST reply actions
Well Gio was still only 21
in 2007, at AA. He is the same age as DLS, and one level higher. It isn't as if he was terrorising kids much younger than him
His "only decent" showing was at age 20 in AA.
Yeah
This is why I'm still high on him. I think the skeptics envision a significant drop off in his K numbers at the ML level, and in conjunction with iffy command this could be a problem. In my experience of looking at pitching prospects AA seems to sort out the legits from the busts, and Gio's results give me a great deal of confidence in him.
by Sigur Ros on Jan 4, 2008 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
To everyone who thinks KW was robbed,
do you mind explaining why?
DLS is a great young prospect, but he is also a 21 year old with 24 IP at A+. Even ignoring the usual concerns about injuries to pitching prospects, he has barely pitched professionally. It is not inconceivable that he never developes a changeup to become the ace that he is projected to be. Note, I am not saying that he is a bad prospect or that prospects suck etc.
Swisher is a very good player who is entering his prime, and will be controlled at way below market rates for his prime ages of 27-32. He is also versatile and can play multiple positions. He does not have injury issues. He does not appear to be the kind of player who takes a relaxed attitude towards physical fitness.
Yes, Swish is not a CF. And if he could play CF at an average level, he would be one of the most valuable players in baseball, given his contract.
Obviously if both Gonzalez and DLS grow into the players that they are projected to be, they would be worth more than Swisher. But, since they are still in the minors, DLS only at A+, their projected value needs to be discounted.
2 very good pitching prospects, one of whom is in A+, one of whom is in AA, for a very good player who is controlled at a below market rate for his prime years seems like a fair price.
I disagree
His defense is currently slightly below average, but with his bat he would give you very good production for a CF. You give up a couple doubles in the alleys, but his bat plays very well there.
That's what I'm saying.
My reasoning is that Swisher is only
a "B+ level" player. He isn't a CFer, he isn't a high-average hitter, he isn't fast, and even his "30-HR" power is not established (though I believe he'll hit 30+ in 2008).
Prospects are by nature uncertain, but to get (or give up) an organization's two highest ranked pitchers is substantial. If I'm CWS and I'm giving up my two best pitching prospects, I want back a centerpiece player - a clean up hitter, or a proven up the middle player (SS, CF). Swisher just isn't either of those.
Well,
there is more to being a good player than hits, HRs, and SBs, nice as those are. Just because he has regularly played in hitter's parks does not make Carlos Lee a better player than Nick Swisher.
Swisher has patience, often working deep into counts, walks, decent power, HRs and 2bs, very good D AND is signed to a bargain contract.
Look, everyone wants a David Wright, a Grady Sizemore. A superstar player on a HOF path signed to a bargain contract. No GM who wants to keep his job is going to give up a player like that. Not for any amount of prospects. KW could literally offer Omar Minaya every single one of the WS' top 20 prospects for David Wright, and still have Minaya laugh at him.
Where are you going to get this clean up hitter, or proven middle player who is just entering his prime AND who is signed to a bargain contract. Miguel Cabrera? His contract expires in 2 years. In 2 years time, you are looking at giving him a HUGE new contract or losing him.
The money that the WS are not paying Swisher, can be used to improve other areas of their team.
Also, again DLS has great stuff, but the guy is 21 years old with only 122IP of professional baseball.
I thought we got ...
... two yearned pitchers and a Crawford clone.
Or possibly a Thad Bosley clone?
by franks a lot on Jan 4, 2008 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
The gute
I was hoping this was going to be a thread about a new Steve Guttenberg movie.

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