Daric Barton's time is now... or not?
by Brian Durack on Jun 25, 2007 9:35 AM PDT
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Print[EDITOR'S NOTE: I was actually going to advocate for something similar to this in my post today. In particular, I really want to see Suzuki and Barton get some experience with the A's right now. I think it can only help the team both now AND in the future to get these guys some experience. In other words, it's not really impacting the lineup greatly to be removing the guys who are there now. You pretty much have nowhere to go but up. - Blez]
It isn't as if Dan Johnson isn't at least adequate at first base, but Daric Barton is hitting so well in Sacramento that the A's may pretty much be forced in to making a move.
Daric Barton's June numbers are quite impressive:
82 ABs, .512 BA, 13 2B, 1 HR, 7 BB, .578 OBP, .732 SLG.
In addition, he has had at least two hits in each of his last nine games. Over that span he has just one walk, but raised his batting average from .274 to .330.
Barton has hit .344/.425/.541 against righies vs .298/.410/.393 vs lefties. A platoon would be nice, but Johnson also favors the righies as well. Mike Piazza's career OPS against lefties is nearly 100 points higher than lefties, so maybe a platoon could be worked a little there.
Many people probably know he has been playing a little at third base this year, but his results haven't been too encouraging. He has been solid at first base, but nine errors in 49 chances at third base won't displace Chavez anytime soon.
So decide for yourself. Trade home runs for doubles and gain some OBP. Or maybe he sucks or maybe he goes nuts and tears it up.
Hell if i know.
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I think you got things reversed a bit
You mean that DJ is better against RHP than LHP, and that Piazza is great against LHP in his carreer compared to RHP, and thus would make a good platoon with Barton.
err.
Yeah, thanks changed it.
I think my brain has become waterlogged over the past 4 days.
by Brian Durack on Jun 24, 2007 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions
But it finally seems I have company
on the "Free Daric Barton" bandwagon. Hop on!
Now if all the other guys would stop trying to push us off the road with the "you'll make him lose a year of team control!" chant, which isn't true anymore btw, we'll be off!
I'm willing to believe now
Year of control was never my issue, just a lack of confidence in someone who hadn't proven he could hit at AAA yet. Sufficient proof has since been provided, though.
by walk off bunt on Jun 25, 2007 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions
the dugout
love he dugout, its awesome
Buck / Barton
If Buck was ready at the beginning of this season, then Barton is more than ready right now.
It won't be long before Barton drops Kotsay down to 7th or 8th in the batting order.
Sign me up as well.........
At this point in the season and given where we are in the standings why not.
I believe Johnson still has one option left if I'm not mistaken.
Or maybe B.B. will work out a trade and infuse something lacking right now in our offense "Intensity".
Come on Billy Bob!
Give us a lineup of:
RF Buck
1B Barton
CF Swisher
DH Cust
LF Snelling
3B Chavez
2B Ellis
C1 Suzuki
SS Crosby
I love this lineup
It would clearly score more runs than the current lineup. I would flip Chavez & Ellis to avoid 3 lefties in a row. The A's would really have something if they had the guts to do this.
Kotsay is horrific. I like the guy as a 4th OFer and defensive replacement, but he has been brutal since coming off the DL. His situational hitting has even been shaky.
Kendall also needs to hit the pine. His recent surge ended abruptly.
Snelling
just started his rehab assignment again. Your lineup would be much better with Swisher in left and Kotsay in center. Until Snelling shows he can stay healthy he isn't reliable at all.
by IndianaAsfan on Jun 25, 2007 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Kotsay
is shot. He is an aging player with no offensive upside. His performance to date is Kendallesque. Snelling is younger and can outproduce Kotsay the minute he steps on the field. I think Zonis wants this lineup assuming that Snelling can stay on the field for a 40 game stretch.
He's already had one rehab assignment
shut down due to re-injury. You're assuming Snelling will step on the field. This guy is hurt more than Harden or Bradley. I'll say this for Kotsay. At least he's on the active roster, and as hurt as he's been the last three years has managed to spend more time on the active roster than Snelling has.
by IndianaAsfan on Jun 25, 2007 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah, and i'm still not sold on kotsay being done
when was the last time he was seeing real game action? last post-season? i think we need to give him some time to really get back to into the swing of things before throwing him into the trash heap.
though, to contradict myself, i do think he's overpaid even if he plays as well as possible.
by Eric in Atlanta on Jun 25, 2007 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I am not disputing
that Snelling is always injured. My only point is that if he were healthy for a 40 game stretch he would be an upgrade over Kotsay.
The A's offense just won't generate enough runs to win in a strong AL with Kendall, Kotsay, Crosby & Chavez(man has he fallen) getting signficant at bats. The A's are have no alternatives for Chavez or Crosby so it is natural to look to upgrade at the CF and CA spot.
Kotsay
My guess is that the A's do not see it that way. If they did then Milton would have been playing everyday. No I think the A's like his de and wish they could hit him down in the order.
by ogallalabob on Jun 25, 2007 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Ditto that for
Chavez, Kendall, and Johnson. Too bad the bottom of the order stops at nine.
by Slurve on Jun 25, 2007 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Pretty sure the A's don't value Johnson's D
by Helloooo 1st on Jun 25, 2007 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think it would be wise
to promote Barton at this time. He has a lot of development left to do at his age and I'd rather see him prove himself in AAA, not just have a good month.
Let him have a chance to maintain these numbers and help us in September.
help us in September ... to stay ahead of TX?
me too...
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 25, 2007 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Not ready yet.
Yes, he's had a great June. But I'd like to see someone his age and with his lack of experience in the upper levels of the system do a little more than go two whole months of solid play. Remember, he didn't play the full season at AAA last year, let's see him put up these kind of numbers over a full season before calling him ready for the majors.
This isn't the same situation as Buck. Buck was NEEDED. Barton isn't. IF his abilities would seriously make the difference between our success and our failure at the MLB level, then he'd be up here right now. The fact is, he's not the difference maker that we're looking for and pretending he is for the sake of "saving the season" which seems to be the driving point of the let's bring up Barton movement.
And yes, he will acquire more service time if we bring up now. Call him up this time next year after he's put up these kind of numbers for a full year and let's keep him a full year more while he's further developed and further into his prime.
from what I can gather, translation;
"Call up Barton ONLY if he can produce a .512/.578/.732 line over a whole season! If not, he doesn't deserve to be in the majors!"
sure... if you're into mistranslations...
Last year he posted a .259/.389/.395 in an injury plagued season. This year he's currently running at .330/.420/.494. Yes, his June has been impressive (understatement of the year), but it's hardly indicative of him being ready. Let him post those or a similar line for a full year (the .330/.420/.494 for those of you who need that sort of clarity). The last thing we need is to waste his service tim for him to come up and fizzle because we played a game of hot hand and he wasn't really ready, not to mention the psychological effect. Hell, the guy has a lot of defensive work to do still as well.
I seriously doubt you're willing to say that just because the guy put up a .500+ line for a chunk of June would suggest he's got nothing left to prove at AAA because if you are, we've got serious sample size discuss to have here. Which, quite frankly is the point.
I mean, come on. Only a fool would ask him to put up a .500+ line and if that's the only response you can come up with then you're not even willing to be part of the conversation and you should stay out of it.
I agree with you
Barton's only 21 and we want him to be under our control as long as possible. Let him get his feet wet in September and prove himself next spring. It's a mistake to rush a player's development for the immediate needs of the big club. I expect Beane to exercise great patience.
Agree-too early
Three hot weeks. In the minors they don't adjust as much to "hot hitters" as in MLB. Cust was hot for six games, then fizzzzzzz. In the majors, one bad pitch is one too many. As soon as they see what gets Barton out, he'll be in the low .200s in the Majors.
He's 21. I think he needs to prove three weeks offsets twelve months of sub-par or non- performance.
by One won lost won on Jun 25, 2007 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Trading Deadline
My opinion is that if Barton is still destroying AAA at the deadline, Billy will try and trade Piazza/DJ for relief help, and use Barton at 1st in Oakland.
My personal bias would be to give him all of this year to learn 3rd, and part of next year as well. Then trade Chavez and bring up Barton at 3rd. This of course assumes all goes well with him learning to play it. with his bat, even an adequate level of D at 3rd would make him far more valuable than at 1st.
Barton will never be a viable 3B option
period. end of story.
He can barely handle 1st Base, and I'd rather him spend that time becoming average at 1B, if he has to.
If you want a 3B to replace Chavez, why not try a Melillo/Murphy platoon. That'd be more effective.
can we sign Garth Iorg and Rance Mulliniks?
no,
but you can have Todd Cruz and Lenn Sakata cheap if you want...
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 25, 2007 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
You never know...
He could find a seven leaf clover and end up the best 3rd baseman ever.
You know, I remember another 3rd base
who was thought to be a poor defensive player. Who was that again? I distinctly remember him racking up a few gold gloves... oh yeah... Chavez.
Barton has only played 3rd base for 3 months. Hell less than 3 months. He wasn't supposed to be a viable 1st base option either, yet he's improved on that a bit. These are the sorts of reasons we need to take a step back and give the guy a chance to prove himself before you come in and blanketly give this sort BS "end of story" announcements with absolutely no credibility for making that sort of argument. The guy isn't even 22 yet. What is your hurry to write him off and rush him like that?
that may be true
give it time
sound like he'll be looking for work soon.
by Eric in Atlanta on Jun 25, 2007 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
right now DJ seems to be sucking
I think its time for Barton, unless you get a decent outfield and play Swish there. I guess we can see Stew, Kotsay, Buck in the outfield for a while. But I think DJ is about done.
DJ is at the height of his suckification
I've just about lost my patience with this kid. After a solid May, he is now in a 9 for 72 stretch at the plate for June, and (channeling Bull Durham), my question is, "How'd he every hit nine?" He looks awful at the plate. In fact, I think some of our pitchers even look better than DJ right now. Hoping for a turnaround.
by Slurve on Jun 25, 2007 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Agree with Zonis
Though I have by no means given up on the season, I think the future is now. Another bad week and we will be 12 games behind the LAAoA. We will be fighting for the wild card. This team, and I hate to say this outloud, would never be good enough to win the W.S. Not without Harden & Loaiza starting. Not without Dusch and Street in the Pen. Maybe when they all come back, if its not too late, we can make a late surge. Even then, our hitting needs to improve.
Yes, It's Barton Time !
Yes, It's Suzuki Time !
Yes, It's Snelling Time !
What the hell ?
Time is now
Unfortunately, I think we've seen all we're ever going to see of DJ. I was a big advocate of this guy, but I think his future value is limited. Like Crosby, he'll excite us periodically with a hot streak, but he is NOT turning into Mark Grace. DJ doesn't just go into mild slumps - he goes into devastating valleys where he provides no value whatsoever. At least Cust kept getting on base at a decent clip when he was slumping - and Crosby plays decent defense at a key position. DJ isn't even a good fielder. Cut our loses and bring up Barton - today.
But what do we do with DJ?
His trade value is the pits.
by Slurve on Jun 25, 2007 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
umm...
melt him down and make hockey pucks out of him, maybe...
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 25, 2007 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't care
1 HR
What is this obsession with HR's? If he has 30
doubles, and 15 HR's, he will have somewhere between 80 and 100 Rbi. I don't care how many Homers he hits. He's had several 4rbi games recently, without homeruns. How many A's players have had that, and the A's have hit a ton of homers this month, but most of them solo, and then strike out with runners on base, where Barton's mere double would drive in 2.
by theblackpearl on Jun 25, 2007 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
As long as he gets on base
I think Mauer is one of the best hitters in the game and about the same age as Barton, he does not hit a ton of homes but hits a lot of Doubles and gets on base. If Barton can do both of those things then his bat would be an addition.
My guess is that they will wait for the call up till the second half and not lose a year of service time (if they were thinking of doing it)
by ogallalabob on Jun 25, 2007 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
No obsession
No obsession. Barton's numbers indicate that he hasn't fully proven himself at AAA both in terms of power and sample size. Does this mean that he couldn't play in the majors right now? Well because guys have skipped AAA altogether the answer is no. For many reasons which have been outlined by others, I would prefer he remain at AAA for a while longer.
I'd be happy with 15Hrs from Barton in his first season in the majors. Unfortunately, he is on pace to hit about 10 in the minors.
Barton hasn't proven himself yet, but...
why not call him up for a couple of weeks and milk the hot streak, then send him back down when he cools off?
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 25, 2007 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Bat him leadoff
He has always gotten on base, at every level. Then there is no pressure to try for power. That also let's Geren put Buck in an RBI position to strengthen the middle of the lineup. He's not fast? So what - they don't steal bases anyway. Whatever he does will be better than Johnson.
i say he doesn't come up for good
until this time next year. better to have him in the majors giving us a shot at the playoffs when he's 27 and 28 (and when some of those doubles should be going over the fence) than now when he's 21.
Pry the catcher's mitt
from Kendall's cold dead fingers, and let Suzuki catch every third or fourth game. Why did we bring him up to sit on the bench? We had Melhuse for that. Let the young pitching staff, which is a year older, BTW, learn to work with both catchers. The pitchers might have to work a little harder with Suzuki, but I understand that they are well paid and shouldn't mind all that much.
by kkdaz on Jun 25, 2007 10:46 AM PDT reply actions
But don't have
Suzuki catch for Blanton. Blanton would have a nervous breakdown if he was taking signs from anybody other than Kendall. Then again, Kendall won't be here next year, so maybe Blanton should learn to trust Suzuki now ...
by Checkswing HR on Jun 25, 2007 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
umm...
maybe Young can call the pitches from the bench...
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 25, 2007 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
We don't need a third baseman, we need...
by bolt on Jun 25, 2007 11:43 AM PDT reply actions
Amen to that
by 3Chavy3 on Jun 25, 2007 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
No, Don't Do It!!
THe kid is young. Until Beane amakes a trade and opens up a place for him to fill in we would be wasting 2 spots on the roster. Have Patience!
I'm OK
with bringing up Barton this year, but not until after we move at least one player in the general 1B-DH-OF logjam, whether it's DJ, Cust, Piazza or whoever.
I realize not all of those guys are worth much in trade. That's OK. I'm not looking to trade for a star -- just get some prospects, of whatever quality the guy we give us is reasonably worth.
My first choice would be to move DJ, even though he's the least valuable in trade.
I think DJ can go to the NL, and have a Scott
Hatteberg/Eric Byrnes type rejuvination. All the A's borderline offensive players seem to go to the NL, and thrive.
by theblackpearl on Jun 25, 2007 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Thoughts
Barton's MLE this year is .292/.378/.435. That's a bit better than what Johnon's hitting, and a bit better than an average 1B. But last year his MLE was only .226/.337/.322. A month as great as Barton's June is very exciting, especially for a 21 year old, but I'd liek to see him do it for longer before starting his service time.
Ideally, he'd come up in early June of next year, but it would certainly make sense to call him up later this year if he continues hitting as he has.
I'm saying yes...
Just because Barton would step into the batting order, and instantly be the 2nd or 3rd best hitter on the team.
Help Win Now. Help Win the Next Year.
Read the thread
and wholeheartedly agree. "Beggars can't be choosers". Recurring thread theme: "no trade value", "borderline", "questionable defense"....
by Steve in Napa on Jun 25, 2007 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Bring up Barton now...
As I understand it, and Im quite possibly wrong, we will retain basically the same level of control on Barton by bringing him up now versus opening day next year. Even if this isn't quite true we will have a new stadium and we can risk borrowing against our future finances to help the team that needs help now!
Zonis' lineup is perfect in my opinion. Scary perfect, but here is to hoping that Landon Powell continues to surge and becomes a star catcher in oakland.
by SwisherSweet on Jun 25, 2007 3:02 PM PDT reply actions
Barton
If Barton performs in a way that Nick Swisher has, Barton can be locked up thru 2015. This Season + 6 Years + 2 Years added onto Arbitraton Years (2015 being a Club Option Option)
by Colorado Fan on Jun 25, 2007 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
40 man roster implications
If we call up Barton we're going to have to release a man from the 40 man roster. Who is that going to be?
We just called up Melillo, so he won't be cut.
Scutaro would make sense if Melillo is the man of the future.
Colby Lewis? Jay Marshall?
Or perhaps a trade of Kotsay or Stewart?
The cost of cutting someone (above) may not be worth it at this time.
Ruddy Lugo
Gone!
There it is... Room on the 40-Man Roster.
by Colorado Fan on Jun 25, 2007 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
we just send down Melillo :P
Well, if we trade Johnson, there's room on both the 25 and 40 man roster.
As for the woman roster... well... I was going to make a Kendall joke, but I think he'd slap me.
Let's return Marshall
to wherever the hell he came from...
If a submariner is specifically needed for a series or two, call up Ziegler... He can't be any worse...
by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Jun 25, 2007 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
How bad is the situation?
Here's today's lineup by OPS
- .707
- .661
- .881
- .753
- 1.002
- .643
- .771
- .669
- .510
but hey! At least Kendall's proving he's an East Bay guy, right?
Even worse
Here's Cleveland's:
.859
.828
.906
.824
.832
.824
.665
.799
.638
I won't post their career OPS against Gaudin (teeny, tiny sample size), but let's just say that most of them are four digits. I sure hope Dan throws a heck of a ballgame out there tonight.
by peanut gallery on Jun 25, 2007 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
get rid of Lugo
DFA him, he clearly is terrible. Bring up Barton. Trade DJ for anything that can throw better than Lugo. Start Scutaro at SS. So Crosby realizes that his job is not secure and make him start to really work on hitting. (if possible) Hope that Snelling is getting healthy and start him in left, Swish in center, and Buck in right. Ride the pine Kotsay and Kendall.
Basically , I agree w/ Zonis
MAKE SOME CHANGES!
by Hawk on Jun 25, 2007 8:33 PM PDT reply actions
It is nice to see Crosby Healthy but it is bad
to see that he sucks
by 3Chavy3 on Jun 28, 2007 11:33 AM PDT reply actions
Why is Kendall hitting and not Suzuki?
by 3Chavy3 on Jun 28, 2007 11:34 AM PDT reply actions
NM
by 3Chavy3 on Jun 28, 2007 11:34 AM PDT reply actions
Rally time
by 3Chavy3 on Jun 28, 2007 11:34 AM PDT reply actions
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