Open Thread: Game 6 - A's at Angels (cont.)
USE THIS THREAD WHEN THE OTHER ONE REACHES 300 COMMENTS. OTHERWISE, BAD MONKEY-KARMA WILL FIND YOU.
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I'm going straight to hell
But I want new thread mojo.
by JediLeroy on Apr 7, 2007 8:21 PM PDT 0 recs
It'll offset the bad monkey karma!
by JediLeroy on
Apr 7, 2007 8:21 PM PDT
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I swear this wasn't my fault.
I'll CGV and ban myself now.
by JediLeroy on
Apr 7, 2007 8:23 PM PDT
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Once again, Chavez needs to change his jersey
Put a big RK right on there buddy
by baseb3383 on Apr 7, 2007 8:23 PM PDT 0 recs
chavez jersey
1 dollar
by OAKobsession on Apr 7, 2007 8:23 PM PDT 0 recs
jersey
would you take a roll of pennies? they are shiny!
by pdxAthletics on
Apr 7, 2007 8:25 PM PDT
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shiny new pennies?
sure!!
by OAKobsession on
Apr 7, 2007 8:30 PM PDT
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and it survived!!!
now theres a positive
by OAKobsession on
Apr 7, 2007 8:24 PM PDT
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Scutaro would've beat the throw to second
by JediLeroy on
Apr 7, 2007 8:25 PM PDT
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-en
by JediLeroy on
Apr 7, 2007 8:26 PM PDT
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Tip your hats to the Angels
Both teams were equal, Angels just had that extra run.
by Hit4TheCycle on Apr 7, 2007 8:25 PM PDT 0 recs
Except that the A's gave them one run
And took one away from themselves.
But still, I tip my hat. And Lackey eats it. And the Angels announcers scream. And K-rod grunts and squats.
by JediLeroy on
Apr 7, 2007 8:27 PM PDT
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I refuse to tip my cap to those jerkoffs
Lackey is an ass, as is K-rod. And Hudler is perma-baked.
by baseb3383 on
Apr 7, 2007 8:29 PM PDT
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It's not our fault that Chavez would swing
at a bird if it was the first thing he saw when he stepped in the batter's box
by baseb3383 on Apr 7, 2007 8:25 PM PDT 0 recs
Yeah, coupled with the
base-running blunder, Chavez had a tough game. But I wonder how patient the A's will be with Shannon Stewart. He needs more pop.
by ProfessorOakland on Apr 7, 2007 8:30 PM PDT 0 recs
Seems like our whole lineup does
Piazza is the only one hitting worth a lick right now, that's probably what it'll be like for most of the year... this lineup is streaky
by baseb3383 on
Apr 7, 2007 8:31 PM PDT
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stewart and bradley struggled
but they have been consistent so far
by OAKobsession on
Apr 7, 2007 8:31 PM PDT
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I'm not
worried about Bradley. He'll have a monster year, I think. Piazza will do well, and Chavez will hit his 25-30 home runs. I just hate to see the A's lose.
by ProfessorOakland on Apr 7, 2007 8:35 PM PDT 0 recs
i'm predicting...
big things from swisher, too. he's gonna hit 30 bombs with 100+ walks. if he get's his avg. up to .270 or so, he'll be a masher!
by pdxAthletics on
Apr 7, 2007 8:39 PM PDT
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Yeah, Swisher will
smash his 30 home runs, too. Overall, I think this team will be competitive. Even with injuries, I'm content with Scutaro substituting for Crosby at short. Whenever I see Crosby's vicious swing, I get back spasms.
by ProfessorOakland on
Apr 7, 2007 8:45 PM PDT
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I blame this thread
As soon as people went over here, the game ended. That's scientifically proven.
by jubjub on Apr 7, 2007 8:43 PM PDT 0 recs
Actually the leadoff hit was right after we
posted here
by baseb3383 on
Apr 7, 2007 8:45 PM PDT
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And what happened 1 second later?
The Easter Bunny was mauled by a pack of wild dogs because Eric Chavez hit into a double play. Coincidence? I think not.
by jubjub on
Apr 7, 2007 9:02 PM PDT
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You're totally exaggerating, jubjub
I mean, yes the Easter Bunny was mauled by wild dogs, but no way Eric Chavez waited an entire second before bouncing into the DP.
by Nico on
Apr 7, 2007 9:08 PM PDT
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Well, this thread preceded Piazza's single
But maybe that was the baseball Gods toying with me.
by JediLeroy on
Apr 7, 2007 8:46 PM PDT
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the other thread never reached 300
that means bad monkey karma for all of you!
by xbhaskarx on Apr 7, 2007 9:00 PM PDT 0 recs
But is that
monkey karma that's bad...or the karma of a bad monkey?
by Nico on
Apr 7, 2007 9:01 PM PDT
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I Think I've had the Karma of a bad money before
... I'm glad I'm still married
by Eck on
Apr 7, 2007 9:15 PM PDT
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66 big ones?
Is Chavez really under contract for $66 million? I read that somewhere, but I can't believe Billy Beane would throw that sort of money away on a player who is one-dimensional (good leather but absolutely no wood).
by ucberkfan on Apr 7, 2007 9:14 PM PDT 0 recs
Wow
That's pathetic. That sort of money should be reserved for guys like Tejada and Ichiro. Guys who win ballgames with their gloves AND bats.
by ucberkfan on
Apr 7, 2007 9:34 PM PDT
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Ridiculous.
Ichiro
Career OPS: .814
Runs/year: 110
RBI/year: 60
HR/year: 10
EQA: .288
Avg WARP: 7.6
Miguel Tejada
Career OPS: .822
Runs/year: 100
RBI/year: 115
HR/year: 28
EQA: .275
Avg WARP: 5.99
Eric Chavez
Career OPS: .839
Runs/year: 90
RBI/year: 95
HR/year: 26
EQA: .279
Avg WARP: 5.45
These are rough estimates, but still. Is there that much of a difference that you'd be willing to throw millions at them?
Chavez is a legitimate offensive threat. He's just not Albert Pujols, nor will he ever be.
by JediLeroy on
Apr 8, 2007 12:12 PM PDT
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from the Baseball Savant
"THE TERMS OF ERIC CHAVEZ'S CONTRACT
Chavez signed a 6-year $66 million dollar contract. There is a team option for a 7th year at the cost of $12.5 million or the A's can buyout the option and pay Chavez $3 million and the two can part ways. The 6-year deal begins in 2005."
link:
http://baseballsavant.blogspot.com/2...
(note: this entry is from Dec. 2004)
by OaklandSi on
Apr 7, 2007 9:47 PM PDT
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Absolutely no wood?
Twenty-two-plus homers for the past seven years is "no wood"?
Look, he's his numbers of declined over the past couple of seasons for one reason or another -- and not up to the value of his contract -- but by no means does Chavez have "absolutely no wood."
One again -- the surgeon general warns that slumping in the VERY FIRST WEEK OF THE SEASON is very dangerous to one's reputation.
If you can call seven hits (three doubles) in six games that much of a slump.
by FormerHuntsvilleStar on
Apr 8, 2007 8:37 AM PDT
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I feel bad for Haren
He seems to have taken over Huddy's role. But if the A's hitters keep getting these chances they'll capitalize eventually.
Piazza looks great right now, and Swisher's on the verge of busting out. Chavez is a mystery - great at-bat in the seventh, followed by a high school base running blunder and a terrible 9th inning at-bat. He did crush that Lackey offering in the 7th. And speaking of Lackey, the guy needs to get a grip. He's good, but he's not good enough to do the screaming and fist pounding - there's no reason for that. Tonight's game was a typical A's/Angels game, and I happen to think the A's will win their share of these this year.
Overall, I feel pretty good, but that could be because my Spartans won a great hockey national championship game tonight.
by IndianaAsfan on Apr 7, 2007 9:18 PM PDT 0 recs
Agree, IndianaAsfan--
The "LaVals crew" was remarking tonight how Vlad is special in that unlike Lackey and K-Rod, he's not only incredibly talented but he really does nothing to make you hate him. Lackey just seems like a big jerk of a dumb jock; bleah.
And with Chavy, it's not that "he sucks" as a hitter--the guy practically HRed to tie the game in the 7th. It's that he's so inconsistent that sometimes he appears to be the wondrous talent and other times he appears to be a rookie.
by Nico on
Apr 7, 2007 9:42 PM PDT
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When I first saw Chavez hit in the late 90s
I thought he could bat over .300 with 50 home runs, and be an MVP. Seven years later, he hasn't quite produced those numbers, but 30/100 isn't bad, either. I just would have liked for him to mature more as a hitter. That's all.
But I'll still root for him.
by ProfessorOakland on
Apr 7, 2007 10:03 PM PDT
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He's been better defensively
than we could have known--because he's been just phenomenal. Offensively, I too see him as a potential .300 hitter if he would just take the ball where it's pitched on a consistent basis. 50 HRs, no, but still 30 with a .300 average, yes--which, in a perennial gold glover, would be fantastic. And probably what Beane hoped/hopes for.
by Nico on
Apr 7, 2007 10:11 PM PDT
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Good point, Nico
Chavez has freaky opposite field power, and if he would just drive that outside pitch more consistently, like Mike Piazza does, his average would climb.
by ProfessorOakland on
Apr 7, 2007 10:18 PM PDT
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Not only because he'd line pitch after pitch
to left field, but because once the pitcher can't just pitch him away, he gets pitches on the inner half to pull. The guy could play pepper with the entire outfield wall if his M.O was just "hit the ball hard wherever it's pitched". Piazza is a good example; you don't hit .362 for a whole season without hitting the ball hard to all fields.
by Nico on
Apr 7, 2007 10:26 PM PDT
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Piazza is unique
Very tall, long arms, but incredibly strong wrists -- he can basically reach out and flick a ball 400 feet to the opposite field, and because his arms are so long he can cover the whole plate without crowding it.
Chavez isn't that tall, and his arms aren't that long, so except for those times when he's totally locked in, he's always vulnerable either to the outside corner or the inside corner. I don't think he can cover the plate like Piazza.
On the other hand, being a tall, long-armed catcher has made Piazza pretty crappy at throwing out runners -- while Chavez is one of the best 3B ever.
by Nick on
Apr 8, 2007 5:20 AM PDT
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Well plate coverage
is easier than you think. The plate is only 17 inches wide, while the bat is, on average, 34 inches long. You can stand almost a foot and a half off the plate and still reach the outside corner.
Plate coverage has nothing to do with the length of one's arms and everything to do with where you hit the ball. You have to let the outside pitch get deeper (closer to the catcher) and you will do just fine. A hitter's inability to cover both sides of the plate just indicates that you doesn't have the plate discipline (different than strike zone discipline) to let the outside pitch get a little farther in before hitting it.
One other thing, and I'm admittedly nit picking here, but wrists are made up of bones and ligaments. Nobody has strong wrists. The strength that Piazza has that allows him to flick the outside pitch 400 feet is forearm strength and swing coordination with his hips and arms.
by IndianaAsfan on
Apr 8, 2007 9:52 AM PDT
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or like Mike Krukow said
"Chavez is a physical freak of nature'
it was actually quite a strange comment during the exhibition game on Saturday before the season began.
by OaklandSi on
Apr 8, 2007 8:40 AM PDT
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Totally agree about Haren
I feel so bad for him. Maybe he shouldn't have taken #15... he seems like he's getting Hudsoned (only worse, because its not a no decision, it's a loss).
I completely believe that bad base running lost this game for the A's. Haren wasn't as sharp as he could have been, but he held the team in the game and it would have at least been tied had they not run into outs.
It just seemed like they weren't paying any attention (looking at you, Chavvy) and unfortunately it was at crucial times in a close game. Chavez just had a terrible game :( Even his double, he slowed down so much going into second, if they tried to they could've easily tagged him before he hit the bag (at least that's what it looked like from our seats just past 1st base on the field level) I just wish, despite the being picked off and all that, that he would've taken at least ONE pitch from Shields. He always seems to miss spots and throw to the backstop at SOME point during games against the A's, and he's pitched what... 4 times in the past 5 days? Frustrating.
I'm hoping tomorrow will be a W. Even if Blanton doesn't do so well against the Angels he'll probably get tons of run support... that's just how things go sometimes haha
by drmmerchk on
Apr 7, 2007 11:07 PM PDT
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IMHO chavy was indeed the goat
.. bad base-running blunder, killed a possible game-winning rally .. ellis' inability to bunt didn't help, but chavy's bonehead base-running lost that game in my humble opinion .. and I'm sure he knows it, too .. and you are right about Shields, - the A's should have been thinking this guy is probably tired, let's take some pitches and try to wear him out .. but, tomorrow is another day ..
by Randy Bell on
Apr 7, 2007 11:17 PM PDT
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Oh for sure
I am sure he knows that he screwed up, and I hope that it leads to some smarter playing on his part the next time he's in a similar situation.
Oh ... and I wonder if Buck hadn't caught Vlad's ball if we could've gotten out of the inning without them scoring. I mean, I know that getting Vlad out was very important, but (completely in hindsight) I wish it wasn't by a sac fly.
by drmmerchk on
Apr 7, 2007 11:23 PM PDT
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Well, unless it is the bottom of the ninth and ..
.. catching that ball meant the winning run would have scored on a sacfly .. that is the only circumstance I can think of, where you would dare let Vladdy see more pitches with 2 men on base .. because giving up 1 run is better than a 3-run homer, especially as hot as BadVlad has been ..
by Randy Bell on
Apr 7, 2007 11:26 PM PDT
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haha yeah
that's exactly what I was thinking when my friend said she wished he didn't catch it. I was like "yeah but if he hit the next pitch over the fence you'd be MORE pissed". The catch was the #1 webgem tonight :)
by drmmerchk on
Apr 7, 2007 11:46 PM PDT
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I think Bradley sums up this loss nicely
I've seen him a lot better," Bradley said of Lackey. "I did nothing to help the team. It's just embarrassing, frustrating. I can't really put a finger on what happened. There's no way Dan should have lost this game."
by larrysgurl on Apr 7, 2007 10:23 PM PDT 0 recs
The frustrating thing is that today,
the A's were (probably) going to win a tie. If they could just have gotten that second run on the board (or not allowed it), it was going to be Carrasco-(a weary) Shields-Oliver against a rested Calero-Duke-Street, from the 8th inning on. I like the A's chances to win that.
by Nico on Apr 7, 2007 10:28 PM PDT 0 recs
Also the A's had trouble getting SlingBlade ..
.. out of the ballgame .. because he was throwing strikes {didn't walk anybody} ..
by Randy Bell on
Apr 7, 2007 10:30 PM PDT
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He was sharper than Haren tonight
We had our one chance in the 7th and totally muffed it.
by Nico on
Apr 7, 2007 10:34 PM PDT
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Lackey always seems to pitch well against the A's
.. I have seen him have bad outings against other teams but rarely against us .. same with Santana ..
by Randy Bell on
Apr 7, 2007 10:36 PM PDT
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Enjoyed the evening at LaVals
In spite of the outcome of the game. It was great to meet all of you there, and thanks, Nico, for coming up with the idea and organizing. (I won't be there Sunday, though.)
by Soaker on Apr 7, 2007 10:29 PM PDT 0 recs
I don't I will either--
Only one "maybe" (Philip Christy) for tomorrow, compared to the Donner Party (11 people, missing only the one we ate) that we had tonight. Maybe it's a sign that I need to enjoy Ken and Co. on radio instead of sitting inside on a Sunday afternoon. Great to meet you too, Soaker, and to meet/hang with all the rest. It made the outcome of the game (almost) bearable.
by Nico on
Apr 7, 2007 10:32 PM PDT
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it was enjoyable sharing the game
(despite the outcome) with other ANers. We even got to meet other A's fans there.
Hopefully it's something we can continue to do for away games from time to time.
by OaklandSi on
Apr 8, 2007 8:44 AM PDT
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Does anyone think
the mental errors the last few days are the result of Geren introducing a modified style of play for the A's? While it's completely normal to watch our guys GIDP, it's painfully new to watch them gaff baserunning 101. I hope Bob gets it worked out soon if this is the case.
Also, did anyone else greet the news that Scutaro would be starting with total indifference? I am to the point where I WANT Scoot to be the everyday guy. After the last couple of seasons, that other guy the A's run out there every once in a while seems like an interloper.
2 and 5. Can I start screaming yet....or is it still to early? Another question, can anyone explain to me why I pine for the season to start for six long months, only to curse the month of April before its half over? How many days until June?
by alox on Apr 7, 2007 10:56 PM PDT 0 recs
to address your points {my opinions)
- Yes the mental errors have piled up and it may be a combo of new manager style plus early season jitters.
- Not only bad baserunning, but poor bunting skills.
- Scutaro is a fantastic super-sub, but nonetheless a sub or bench player; Crosby is the starting SS, who when healthy has better range, better arm defensively and more power offensively.
- I realize point#3 is a bone of contention with A's fans but I doubt Beane or his managers ever intended Scutaro to be a starter, just a sub; fantastic sub, but not a starter.
- You pine for the season to start because you are a true blue fan who bleeds green & gold!
- You experience letdown in April-May because the A's usually suck in April-May {i.e. get off to a slow start}.
- Other teams have other months of the season where they shine or stink; the A's stink in April-May, pick it up in June-July, have their best month in August, and try to hold on in Sept.
- It is OK to scream, just don't think about shouting "game over" in the first inning of an open-game thread lest you fall under Nico's wrath {grin}.
by Randy Bell on
Apr 7, 2007 11:09 PM PDT
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I can't agree
with some fans who justify the A's slow start because that's their M.O. While it's too early to get a gage on how well they'll do, we have had so many different players over the years, saying they "always have slow starts" is just a coincidence. If the team performed well this week, we could have gone 5-0. There's just so many new players that roll into Oakland, and they had nothing to do with the teams' previous slow starts.
This particular team just so happened to win two out of five games.
by ProfessorOakland on
Apr 7, 2007 11:58 PM PDT
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forgive me i'm not trying to justify it ..
.. it seems to just happen no matter who is wearing the green&gold unis. It happened last year with Frank Thomas getting off to a slow start along with the rest of his team-mates. I was trying to address what alox asked in his last paragraph:
Another question, can anyone explain to me why I pine for the season to start for six long months, only to curse the month of April before its half over? How many days until June?
Blez said the same thing recently, that the A's seem to almost always get off to a slow start. I cannot speak for blez or anyone else but I'm not sure anyone can explain it, other than "it seems to be the A's M.O."
That said, every year I find myself wishing the A's could at least stay right around .500 by the end of May. They don't usually get hot until the weather heats up in June-July. Marty Lurie has called the A's "Grinders" who tend to succeed in that "grinding" part of the season when the league's pitching starts to wear down due to the long season and the summer heat.
But I would love to be proven wrong this year, believe me I would .. it wears on MY patience as well as any other A's fan, and I'm sure we all experience doubt, - wondering and waiting, worrying if this is the year when the A's don't make that usually fantastic run in the second half ..
Warmly, Ran
by Randy Bell on
Apr 8, 2007 3:43 AM PDT
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{forgot to say} OH and you are so right that ..
.. we've only played five games into the season .. not a big enough sample size to know anything about this year's season .. let's hope we will do better in april-may this year .. and {i think} Nico has commented, and Fosse too, that we don't want to be too slow out of the gate or let the Angels run away with the division while Oakland is trying to get healthy ..
by Randy Bell on
Apr 8, 2007 3:46 AM PDT
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yeah
I thought about that... the whole running into outs thing being a result of trying a different approach, but overall so far this year I don't think it has been a bad idea to try.
It felt like on Thursday we took extra bases when we could and it helped lead to runs and/or runners in scoring position (tho maybe it was just my imagination). Just sucks that today it didn't work as well. If Ellis got the bunt down, or if Chavez noticed that he didn't and returned to second instead of continuing to run toward third, it would've worked out OK. It happens sometimes. That's why I'm glad there are so many games in the season hehe
by drmmerchk on
Apr 7, 2007 11:14 PM PDT
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I think if they're going to incorporate
bunting, stealing, moving the runners before/at contact, etc., for certain situations, that's good. All that is part of baseball, and you need at least a credible threat to keep the other team guessing at least a little.
But you also have to execute. I hope they are also working on these skills during practice.
by OaklandSi on
Apr 8, 2007 8:47 AM PDT
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And another thing...
In memory of CTM....wherever he's at. Hope he's doing well.
I absolutely loathe Lackey and K-Rod. I mean I really can't freaking stand the site of either one. I hope that the next A that takes them deep takes a few moments at home plate to mock them mercilessly on national TV. In my fantasies it's Kendall who goes yard off Lackey. When he reachs the plate he takes the opportunity to explain to Lackey why he sucks as a pitcher and a human being and invites him to partake in another beating if he takes exception to Kendall's viewpoint.
by alox on Apr 7, 2007 11:02 PM PDT 0 recs
TeeHee, YES but if we did that ...
.. we would have sunk to their level .. the best medicine is simply to beat them ..
by Randy Bell on
Apr 7, 2007 11:12 PM PDT
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3 games, 3 HBP
Lackey's beaning of Swisher tonight should have set off a brawl, because it's the third game in a row when LaScioscia's punk pitchers hit one of our guys. They did finally stop throwing at little Mark Ellis, but three for three is getting ridiculous. If it happens tomorrow, I sure hope we see some ass-whooping.
Ellis was horrible tonight. The dude needs to learn that aggressive base running takes conviction. If you're gonna try and score from third on an infield grounder, you need to get off at the crack of the hat to have a chance. And if you're supposed to bunt the guys over on a hit and run play, you don't pull back on a high pitch, you but the damn ball out of play.
K-Fraud and Slingblade's antics piss me off, but the A's could use just a little bit of that passion in their style of play.
by Mossback on Apr 8, 2007 3:50 AM PDT 0 recs
Chavvy could use a little attitude...
especially after failing in two games in a row.
by Oaktownmagical07 on
Apr 8, 2007 4:24 AM PDT
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Baseball gods have decreed...
A's will lose the series after one dramatic win.
We gotta stop Vlad! Start throwing at him, you wankers!!

