Weird Times at HH High
Confessions of an HH spy.
This is the story of an A's fan who decided to go undercover as an Angels fan at Halo Heaven in order to understand the psychology of our much maligned neighbors in red. The whole idea started as a protest against the Rev's custom of banning A's fans who dared to swell the meager roles of HH hits, myself included. If Todd or Joel - or whatever his real name is - could step in like a self-ordained Fullerton Mussolini (insert name of your favorite dictator, domestic or otherwise) and erase all statements that he didn't agree with, then the rules of the blogosphere could be thrown out the window. I decided that I would devote the rest of my life to creating a false login identity so devious and so carefully crafted that not even the world's greatest trollhound could tell me from yeswecan or cupie. But then something strange happened: I realized that Angels fans are real people, just like us, and deserve our respect.
Naaahhh!! Who am I kidding?But I'm getting ahead of myself. Let me start from the beginning. I first visited that very red site after having spent a lot of time here at AN, and having checked into Lookout Landing from time to time. While of course we all agree that we are funny, intelligent, and often happily strange and disturbing people who all happen to be rooting for the correct team, it turns out that the M's fans at LL are at least as funny and intelligent as we - they just root for the wrong team. Surfing over to HH is a different thing altogether: my first impression was that the site was being run by a descendant of Jim Jones, someone who serves his congregation a very saccharine cherry koolaid that has been mostly drained of the good feeling you get from AN or LL. Statistics be damned, the site seems to say, we (the Angels) have an enormous payroll and we aren't afraid to practice simian video terrorism (SVT) when we want to start a rally. Oh, yeah: and our huge payroll entitles us to expect all kinds of unreasonable things from our players. (And have I mentioned how red the site is?)
There were a few ANers intelligently disagreeing with things that were said on the site. Then I noticed that a certain BleacherDave (of AN fame) was banned for engaging in outlandishly trollish dialogue such as this:
BleacherDave: Hi, mom!angelsrallymom: Hi, son!
BleacherDave: What's for dinner, mom?
angelsrallymom: Meatloaf and mashed potatos!
BleacherDave: Sounds great! See you after the game!
Disturbed by BD's sudden disappearance, I was compelled to try my hand on the site. I first posted on HH with fairly accurate predictions about the Yankers win over the Angels from a short while back; I predicted the Angels would score 4 runs off of 9 hits, and the Yankers would score 12 runs off of 18 hits. The only one on the site who appreciated my accuracy was a poster named BleacherDavid, whose very cleverly modified login didn't trick me (or the Rev, as it turned out). I underestimated the Angels offense by a few runs and hits, but I only overestimated the Yankers' totals by 1 in each category. I logged in under that name I use here, and other than my relatively accurate prediction, I made one other comment: that the Yankers would like what the Colonel (Saunders) was serving up. Again, quite accurate (despite the tone of bitter glee): they gorged themselves on his original recipe meatballs and his extra crispy rookie arm that day.
Like an amateur, I bragged about my accuracy on AN, and well, you can guess the consequence: LAXile had been banned from the hallowed halls of halo heaven. Whoopdy-shit, you might be tempted to say. In any case, my new login would be even less ambiguous: I became ilovethelosangelesangelesangels, again announcing the fact on AN.This persona was too over-the-top, as I tried to kill them with scarcely masked sarcasm. I said things like: "I'm not gonna let a grumpy grumpmeister ruin this halo smile! No, sir!" This time all my previous comments were erased and I was unable to post new ones.
That was when it hit me: I would play it straight; I would use terms like "Choakland" and befriend the fine people of the OC in order to get inside their heads. I crafted the login name rodcarew4ever, which wasn't that hard to do, as I really used to love watching Rod play for the Angels back in the day. I made one slip by predicting the Angels would lose that day's game, a mistake which provoked one HHer to call me a troll, and prompted the Rev to interrogate me. "How long have you been an Angels' fan?" he asked. The trap was set; the bait was taken; the game was afoot. But there was a problem: I couldn't physically stomach pretending to not love the A's. I felt both the pure bliss of having penetrated the red curtain, but also the uncleanliness that comes from even feigning to root for the wrong team.So this is my confession. I know many of you will think what I did was wrong. It's possible that the Rev will cite this diary and go on a rant about what idiots A's fans are. I accept all of the blame for this. To be honest, I don't appreciate trolls either, and I do appreciate the fact that there are no Angels fans trolling about AN (or very few). But I felt that the Rev's totalitarian attitude was a bit much. His facist attitude contrasts so starkly with Blez's Marcus Aureliusian approach: measured, just, and rational.
Being myself a Bay Area transplant to the South, I came equipped with the standard anti-LA (and OC) attitudes that many of us from Northern California have. Some of them were proven wrong, while others were confirmed. I know some good people who are Angels fans. I know some idiots who are A's fans. I also know that HH has fewer posters than AN, and thus represents a smaller sample size of Angels fans than this site does for A's fans. In other words, what we sometimes perceive to be the stupidity or anti-stat, anti-fun, anti-intelligent feeling on HH (and among Angels fans in general) is in large part a product of intangibles, including, most obviously, our own position as A's fans. Nor do I buy the argument that to even mention HH or the Rev is to fall into his trap: to provoke ANers to visit HH. It's sometimes interesting and useful and just plain fun to see what those freaks in red are doing over there. The only hits I care about are those had by our boys in green and gold.
So in the spirit of a spirited rivalry, I offer this bit of "Intentionally Unaltered Movie Dialogue":
Rev: Did you gamble?LAXile: Yeah.
Rev: Did you win?
Laxile: Yeah.
Rev: What did you win?
LAXile: Me.
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by greekpride08 @ Athletics Nation on Sep 7, 2006 4:43 PM PDT reply actions
Please return my back ASAP.
wow what a waste of time
Luckily Blez runs this site and we really don;t have to worry about all that stuff.
by BashBrothers89 on Sep 7, 2006 4:45 PM PDT reply actions
Hell yes, it was a waste of time.
A waste of time?
That's the beauty of all of these things - to enjoy pastimes with a bit of distraction.
Spying on HH is fun and a good way not to work. I like it, too.
fess up, LAXile ...
cart/horse doesn't really work but
by ohtobe21likehuston on Sep 7, 2006 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm actually the ghost of George Plimpton
Try exposing yourself to some Milton Friedman
by LowcountryJoe on Sep 7, 2006 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting that you mention Milton Friedman
you're totally right
when will those right wing corporate cronies stop handing out nobel prizes to every university of chicago economist with a pulse like they're welfare checks.
corporations have never done anything for anybody.
now if you'll excuse me, i have to get back to work building my flinstones car out of wood and rocks...
i would have said
and i agree, go a's. wait... they're not a corporation, right?
The Nobel prizes are
But as far as I'm concerned, Sweden/Norway is like tomayto/tomawto. (;
Only the Peace Prize is awarded in Oslo.
Ahh
in the spirit of all this
Hey there
by green star oakland on Sep 7, 2006 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
how about kim dae jung
it might be easier to go the other way, and list deserving winners.
I was actually making a very specific historical
You're correct that I tried to provoke you
As to Friedman and his sticking up for corporate interests, he doesn't...at least not directly. In fact he rails against corporations that try and rig the "rules of the game" [let's be clear, he's not a big fan of every rule in "the game" either] by currying favor from lawmakers just as any other special (self) interest groups do. No, Friedman's point about free markets is that in order to be free, people must have property rights...and when they have property rights they are free to exchange their property with others in exchange for the property of their trading partner - even if that partner is a corporation. And if they decide to engage in this exchange they'll come to an agreement on the terms of the exchange, free of coercion, and the parties will each value what they are about to gain. Is their some portion of that philosophy of Friedman's that is particularly offensive more so than say "domestic dictators"? Or maybe it's Friedman's principled stance on freedom that you find so odious.
by LowcountryJoe on Sep 8, 2006 4:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Sacred?
And please, for the love of all that is sacred, do not misuse the word "liberal" -- Friedman is the embodiment of (neo-) liberalism (as distinct from the nearly meaningless term "liberal" so easily bandied about these days by "critical thinkers" like yourself).
I don't believe that I am the one who is misusing it and nor do I profess to be a "critical thinker", whatever the heck that phrase is supposed to mean be the academicians who over use it. At one point in history, self-described "Liberals" used to fight against authoritarians whether they were from the right or left sides of the spectrum. Today the term has become muddied and unrecognizable. So much for sacred
by LowcountryJoe on Sep 8, 2006 5:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, I appreciate the brief excursus on
Legal scholar Joel Bakan's book
Last word!? Cool, I'll get me some.
- I do not believe that any of those politicians that you mention are dictators, for they garnered the most votes (electoral processes excluded) in a free and fair election by the people: that cannot be dictatorship. Now, if you had used the term "central planner", I could find pols of both stripes to place on the example list. And that list could grow quite long.
- I wasn't the first in our discussion break out the "critical thinking" phrasology from today's euphamistic and ideological lexicon; assuming that's what affect you were going for. I did, however, use it (and I believe properly) as two ordinary words used together in a sentence that gave meaning to a thought process that had anayzed information before forming an opinion.
- I agree with you regarding environmental degradation but I have also read where markets -- and conferring as many private property rights as possible to air and water resources -- have reduced degradation. Extolling markets is not the same as condoning corporate abuses to the environment or condoning questionable marketing practices to people (children) that are not rational/educated enough to participate in trade. Fortunately, many children are not in positions to trade, because they typically have nothing of pecuniary value to offer in the market place. That does not stop children from pestering their parents, though, for stuff that they have seen on television or in other advertisements. My kids have to give me something of value (completion of chores that I'd have to do if not for them) before I give them cash -- and I pay them a flat fee per the job. If they want stuff that they've seen, they're buying it. And you know what, typically they wont do the chores at the price I'm offering -- I want to raise the rates in order to get them to do more but their mom argues that what we're offering is a fair wage; and she's supposedly, at least in her eyes, the more compassionate one. No matter, after hearing the words "If you want it, then do some work and purchase it yourself", my children have not been coerced by the marketing schemes of evil corporate bullies any longer because they now know what needs to be done in order to get the maliciously peddled trinkets....well, maybe it does happen every once in a blue moon when a birthday or Christmas is coming around.
by LowcountryJoe on Sep 8, 2006 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Good job!
Years ago on a car-related website, I created a troll that had the entire internet Ford Probe enthusiast community (yes, there amazingly was one!) angered. Very satisfying.
"Hummer Afficionado Association"
(waits on edge of seat to hear Rev's response)
If it's a troll shaman,
THANKS FOR THE LINKS!
I took missus Halofan to Vegas for three days and lived it up all paid for SOLELEY on money from Halos Heaven ad revenue - which is growing - and a good portion of the site's traffic is based on SO MANY VISITS from A.N. links and Oaklnd fans trolling.
Missus Halofan wants a SUITE on the Vegas Strip for New Year's eve - I will certainly need the cooperation of Athletics Nation.
Come visit Halos Heaven often and keep her happy!
by RevHalofan on Sep 7, 2006 6:04 PM PDT reply actions
Site Meter records HALOS HEAVEN boom:
by RevHalofan on Sep 7, 2006 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Any truth to this rumor?
If so, I wish you and 'ms halo' the best!
I was thinking that, too. Cool if true.
I would have thought so
you sure
by Ryan Armbrust on Sep 7, 2006 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
What website gets paid for just hits?
Websites now get paid for clickthroughs to the advertisers on the sites.
by Athletics Central on Sep 8, 2006 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks for the personal invite, Rev...
Happy New Year to you and the missus. Don't forget to raise your glass to AN!
Y'all come back now, ya hear?
Why wait until New Year's Eve?
boycott HH
Halos Heaven
Uhh, everyone does get that spam, right?
no, why do you ask?
TROLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!
TROOOOLLLLLLL!!!!!
trivia note
Again, Rev plays the 'yay for hits' lie.
"Huzzah! I got 50 hits today! I'm gonna be loooooaded!"
I don't ban them anymore
Then I erase their commnents but don't ban them so they post MORE.
The numebrs DO go up this way. Then they get mad and write a diary entry about it with LINKS and the numbers go up more.
I learned a lot from watching FREE TO CHOOSE the Milton Friedman capitalist propaganda PBS series in the late 1970s.
by RevHalofan on Sep 7, 2006 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
REV,
by BleacherDave on Sep 7, 2006 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Of your 24 aliases
by RevHalofan on Sep 7, 2006 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Which one?
FREE BLEACHERDAVE!
by BleacherDave on Sep 7, 2006 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Blez?
And how ironic:
LOL he is the best witness...against
Seriously is there no grievance procedure that someone like Dave could pursue? The username he made for Dave was pretty vile.
I don't have anythign to hide or delete
by RevHalofan on Sep 8, 2006 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Simply breathtaking.
Surely there must be a standard in place to govern such behavior, which is, as far as I know, not considered acceptable in any corner of the blogosphere - other than HH.
What next? Olsen Twins porn? That'll REALLY see the hits rise, huh Rev?
I know this is off topic
troll money
OK -- I take back what I said about HH and the Rev
lol
"Tiny Dancer" - check.
"Christ, what an asshole" - check.
;)
Game thread a few days back
Rev and HH is an embarassment
Whoa there!
Pony up!
Two things I know for sure.
- Mattwelch is one of the best posters over at HH and would be (in my opinion) a much better choice than the Rev to run an Angels centric blog for SB Nation.
- 6-4-2 is a much better blog than HH.
Truly, madly, deeply correct.
I honestly wish Blez would take a firmer hand with him, as the way he runs things is kind of a disgrace to SB Nation, and it kind of spoils what could be a fun rivalry.
Amen, HollywoodOz--
I don't tell any of our guys
We aren't a corporate entity like ESPN so our guys have their freedom to a point (no slander or libel or any of that stuff). Rev knows Angel fans apparently, and I've said this many times, 99 percent of what you see over there is an act with him...a good act because people keep coming back to read more.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 7, 2006 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
The 99% isn't the problem
It's the altering or deleting of posts on a whim, the banning of posters simply because he wants to, that makes HH and Rev an embarassment. It's the 1% that isn't part of his act that's truly disgraceful.
I agree that he doesn't always run
In some ways, his foaming at the mouth has attracted some trolls who want to poke him with a stick, but he's set that precedent by writing the stuff he does. Then again, writing the stuff he does has attracted a fairly large Angel audience. I'm really suggest that A's fans just stay away. It may be fun to poke a wild dog, but you're a bigger person if you stay away.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 7, 2006 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Wild Dog?
by RevHalofan on Sep 7, 2006 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
QOTM!
by Amnesiac727 on Sep 8, 2006 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Glad someone caught the line
I have to admit
Huge fan...
by Floridafan on Sep 8, 2006 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't care about the foam!
Now, altering posts and banning on a whim may not be illegal but it is wrong. It shows a lack of class and professionalism, and since he's being paid via advertsing dollars some sense of professionalism should be expected. Put another way, Rev treats a lot of his customers like shit. Are you OK with that?
I don't think they're his customers
I certainly don't think he's been banning people he disagrees with. JLaff, for instance, continues to post over there on occasion amicably. sal918 also.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 7, 2006 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Read his own words
Then I erase their commnents but don't ban them so they post MORE."
He's gloating on this very thread about how he abuses his power as blogmaster. I don't know who you're listening to, but they aren't telling you the whole truth. I'm sure that some of the people Rev has tossed would qualify as trolls, but a lot of folks from AN have gone over to HH with good intentions and ended up banned.
Like me.
I think in your case
by RevHalofan on Sep 7, 2006 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem
Most Angel fans disagree with me
I agree that I don't have any common sense, you sound just like my mom...
by RevHalofan on Sep 7, 2006 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Ack! Your mom?
Seriously If you don't ban Angel fan posters for disagreeing with you then have the common decency to extend the same courtesy to All posters regardless of the team that they root for. Why not allow open discussions? What are you so afraid of? I find you an intelligent man and well able to hold your own in a debate. That's why your shoddy behavior is so perplexing.
Open discussions?
It is one thing to have the banter of an informed opinion, but the negatives almost always outweigh the positives.
I spend too much time debating Angel fans about the minutia of the club, to add the layer of other team's fans chirping in at will - often attempting clever sabotage - no thanks.
by RevHalofan on Sep 8, 2006 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Noone attempts to persuade
Why the burden is yours:
If I'm calling you a piece of sh_t son of a c__t, by all means, ban away. But I never have - not one time.
What I HAVE done is refute your BS statements about Oakland having a 'history' of fading, about certain players in Oakland being useless (hello Kendall and Loaiza and Hurt and Chavez), etc etc.
YOU, sir, are the troll. You write things you KNOW will draw A's fans in, and when they refute your argument with fact, rather than baseless conjecture, you can't stand being made to look wrong on your own blog, so you ban them.
You wanna play in the kitchen, learn to deal with the heat.
Maybe instead of depending on what you are told
I don't alter posts
by RevHalofan on Sep 7, 2006 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Then you're going to go broke :)
You alter usernames, alter other users' polls...
And you brag about it, until you're exposed.
Back up there, eh
by RevHalofan on Sep 7, 2006 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions
bullshit
by Cutthemullet on Sep 8, 2006 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Dude, check out my horoscope for Thursday
You may have to contend with a person who is trying to exert unreasonable power over you today, forcing you to defend your right to do things your way. The person may feel that he or she is doing this for your own good, but that is not usually the case.
by RevHalofan on Sep 8, 2006 1:00 AM PDT up reply actions
lol
I've always been lucky when it comes to horoscopes, because I fall on the Cancer/Gemini border. I can take whichever one I prefer, I guess.
Your unreasonable power
Wow, way to ignore being caught in a lie.
"My advertisers
Wow, who woulda guessed that Manufacturing Consent was really about SB Nation?
"I for one would like to welcome our women's volleyball-playing overlords..."
Blez, nobody, from me
Oh, I should add that
I do agree with that
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 7, 2006 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Then he's lying to you
Yeah, but it's still true
Honestly, I don't know first-hand
And those actions
Noooooooooo it wasn't.
Logical, calm, reasonable comment... deleted and banned.
A long time, huh?
I'd provide a link, but since this is Rev's comment from a little ways up in this diary, I figure people can just scroll up.
Enjoy your petard ride, Rev.
I think what the Rev is saying
We can only hope...
"I run a blog that's part of a nation-wide group of sports-oriented blogs that are like your favorite sports bar where you love to watch the game with your friends. Except my site is more like a dive where we abuse the customers, 86 them for no reason, and laugh in their faces about it. Still, we get a decent amount of foot traffic because so many people stop by here to complain about my behavior.
Wouldn't you like to advertise here so your business can be associated with that kind of experience?"
He has posted his policy...
I watch most Angels games and enjoy discussing them in real-time with Angels fans. Kinda like being at the ballpark....
by BleacherDave on Sep 7, 2006 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Noone would be upset if he only banned
We are allowed to make usernames on HH. It should be a fun thing to read the opinions and comment of opposing teams fans and it really is a shame to see someone allowed to treat posters so disrespectfully.
I know that you are in a tough spot Blez because you are the creator of AN but surely there is someone in authority who could censor that behavior in the Rev.
Blez,
by BleacherDave on Sep 7, 2006 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Slander
by RevHalofan on Sep 7, 2006 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
You don't make fun
"In law, defamation is a right of action for communicating statements that may harm an individual's reputation or character. The common law origins of defamation lie in the torts of slander (harmful statement in a transitory form, esp. speech) and libel (harmful statement in a fixed medium, esp. writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast), each which give a common law rights of action."
by BleacherDave on Sep 7, 2006 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
For the record, BleacherDave,
As for the Rev's actions (as you describe them), I can't believe there could even be a discussion as whether they were acceptable, professional behavior becoming of a series of blogs.
In addition...
YAY Cyndi! The money went to a much worthier cause - Makeup!
by BleacherDave on Sep 7, 2006 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't get me started
wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel
by Ryan Armbrust on Sep 7, 2006 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow. Rev getting a simple concept 100% wrong.
I suspect that you've defined slander too narrowly
Dictionaries are Useful Things
slan‧der ˈslændər Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[slan-der] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
-noun 1. defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.
- a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.
- Law. defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.
-verb (used without object) 5. to utter or circulate slander.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Origin: 1250-1300; (n.) ME s(c)laundre < AF esclaundre, OF esclandre, alter. of escandle < LL scandalum cause of offense, snare (see scandal); (v.) ME s(c)laundren to cause to lapse morally, bring to disgrace, discredit, defame < OF esclandrer, deriv. of esclandre]
by LD on Sep 8, 2006 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
99% of what you see with Bill O'Reilly is an act.
Blez, whatever works for you, man, it's your business. But having spent several years at DailyKos, I'm intimately aware of the ethics of blogging that the head honcho of SBN adheres to like glue, and you've gotta know that The Rev is the very antithesis of what has made his site, and by virtue of its popularity, yours, so darn respectable, appreciated, profitable and popular.
I'd be the last one to tell you how to do your job, and I know that even if you wanted to punt him, it'd probably end up being called an 'A's vs Angels' thing and cause mucho stinko, but... wow. The guy just has NO idea what's acceptable and what isn't.
Content is content - he can write what he wants and I won't bat an eyelid - but not in someone else's name, as he has done to me. Not in the name of other users, after he's banned them. That's unholy. It's reprehensible. It's bush league.
That's So Hollywood of Them
Act is getting hella tired.
Angels Brand of Baseball
Hey, how did you guys get the kool-aid man
by Amnesiac727 on Sep 9, 2006 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Kinda lame...
No: Totally lame. And I admit it.
I got the point that
Yeah I got banned, too
I pointed out that LA has a population about 10x the size of the Bay Area, so his methodology was flawed. Keep in mind I was very polite about the whole thing. Rather than respond, he banned me and deleted the post within an hour.
Personally I feel that the Rev is a tool. However, some of the Angels fans over there are pretty cool and would've been fun to talk with.
Why do I get the feeling that the Rev is 15 years old?
Long time no see
Did the same to me.
The guy is clueless.
fun with img src

regardless of his protestations to the contrary, these are the Rev's favorite kind of hits
I think of 
as the
of sports blogs
The
are in prime position to

shock the monkey,
leaving the Rev to play
with his handy 2006 Angels postseason kit:



Rev's favorite hits
by emperor nobody on Sep 7, 2006 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I usually...
You guys are hilarious!
By the way, Ronnie Brown and Hines Ward hooked my FFL team up tonight...Lets beat the D-Rays tomorrow...LETS GO OAKLAND!
by nfadil4 on Sep 8, 2006 12:43 AM PDT reply actions
Inform Kos about Rev, Blez?
I highly recommend he get a "review" by his bosses and be called on the carpet, admonished, and told he will be fired if he doesn't change his ways.
He will cost the SB Nation money and trouble at some point if this is not done and many of us who read these blogs will continue (I have already started) to lose respect for the powers that be around here. It isn't a question of giving him the freedom to run his own blog, it's a question of professionalism which I know Kos cares about from reading DailyKos Daily.
I run SB Nation
One of the things that both Markos and I believe in 100 percent is letting our bloggers develop their own voice. If that's Rev's voice and it continues to attract an audience, that's all we care about. Rob McMillin runs an excellent blog at 6-4-2 talking about stats, yet his traffic isn't nearly what Halos Heaven is. You may hate him because your an A's fan, but he obviously hasn't alienated Angel fans because his audience continues to grow.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions
So the ends justify the means
Here's the irony. If Rev brought his act over to AN he'd have gone the way of reztips and oaktoon long ago.
No, it's corporate-minded to
And there's no irony, grover. AN is a different blog with different rules than HH because I run it, not Rev. We may all be under the SBN umbrella, but we also let people develop their own communities the way they see fit. If someone wanted a cookie-cutter approach, there are other networks out there for that.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I dare say that if 6-4-2 were part of SBN...
I, for one, would check daily.
Who are you trying to convince, me or you?
But you are constantly pushing the concept of "Community" and that makes you responsible to the readers of the SB Nation blogs. You've been told repeatedly that Rev has been abusing his position at HH, I know because I've brought up his actions a couple times and HollywoodOz has written tomes about his experiences over there. Several other people, some who have been around AN since the green border days, have also commented on Rev's actions.
Rev has admitted to altering usernames to include KKK referrences. He has admitted to altering and deleting posts, not because of inappropriate content, but out of spite. The proof to these claims can be found in this thread. He banned me because he disagreed with me. But don't take my word for it, go over to HH and do a search for my comments. Assuming Rev hasn't altered them to cover his ass, you try to figure out what I said that justified my ban.
I'll do one better than that. I'll drop this whole issue, I'll never bring it up again, if you can tell me that you fully support the actions I referrenced above. Just say, "Yeah grover. I've got no problem with Rev altering usernames to include KKK referrences. I've got no problem with the man altering or deleting posts whenever he disagrees with the poster's opinions."
Tell me that, and I'll know that you've heard what I've been saying but you choose to follow a different path than I recommend. I can live with that. I'll still come to AN as often as I can because I truly enjoy the site and there is no way Rev's low-class actions are going to dampen my enthusiasm for participating around here.
But you owe us an answer on this issue. Do you, Blez, fully support the tactics Rev uses to run his site? Is it OK for him to use KKK referrences and alter/delete posts whenever he chooses? Is it OK for him to treat dissenting voices like garbage?
Think of it as a foray into Blog Federalism
Now, it seems as though there are many of you who don't belong to that particular community who wish to affect change within that community. Is this some sort of civil rights movement at the SB Nation? And if so, I will be interesting to see who will take the roles like: who will be MLK and who's gonna be Rosa Parks.
by LowcountryJoe on Sep 8, 2006 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Lets get a couple things straight
Secondly, I'm not going to marginalize the civil rights by comparing it to such a trivial item as this. People were hurt and killed trying to push civil rights, in this case some feelings got hurt in cyberspace.
Most importnatly, Rev is not operating with the consent of the majority. He is a tyrant. All blogmasters are tyrants, some are just more benelovent than others. In Rev's case, he is a puupet tyrant. There is someone over him (Blez, Kos) who can cut the strings at any time.
Yes! Yes!
Second, you said it, this is a relatively trivial matter. And as such, don't participate in the discussion over there if you do not like the consequences of dissenting with someone who has the power to actually cause you discomfort or embarassment. That's like playing with fire only with flammables.
Most importantly, power corrupts. This is a fundemental truth. One should aways question the motives of people when reflecting on their actions...to include oneself, especially if one goes looking for trouble in communities where one's own motives are suspect.
by LowcountryJoe on Sep 8, 2006 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmm
I didn't go over the HH to start a fight, I went over there to learn more about the Angels. I wanted to know what die-hard Angel fans thought about their roster, who they thought was for real and who was hype.
As for me getting banned, it was a chickenshit move on Rev's part and the funny thing is only one poster agreed with his action. But to ban someone just because you can is an abuse of power and my over-riding question is this: Does SB Nation want to associate with a blogmaster who has the impulse control of a 6 year old?
I think such an association would be bad for business. I know such an association is bad for developing a community of sports blogs.
Well Blez, then you are as bad as Rev
Just because he is somewhat successful doesn't mean someone else couldn't be successful running his blog. But the McMillen dude in his place and boom he has the Halos Heaven traffic and probably grows it.
Now that I know you run SB Nation Blez, I hold you as responsible as Rev for hacking those user accounts and I am considering starting an SB Nation wide diary blitz to get you to reprimand him for it.
by The Hypocrite on Sep 8, 2006 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Dear Blez: <in my best My Name is Earl
You shouldnt be the one apologizing
by Amnesiac727 on Sep 8, 2006 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I think that there are two camps that have matches
by LowcountryJoe on Sep 8, 2006 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, make sure they stay away from Band Camp
Of the last at least 50 diaries
Pretty fun, IMO.
What's funny to me
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Of course it would.
We're better than that. We can say "well played, Mr Hinske" if he sends one over the wall, because winning means nothing if it comes without respect.
I bet it would.
I think that it is a discredit to us, the readers, to think that our blog-reading preferences are about the identity of the team and not the quality of the writer. Indeed, I read Rob McMillan and the Chronicler regularly because of quality content about the Angels. I'm sure others are the same.
I'm fine that SBNation's policy is to let the blogmasters run their blogs however they see fit. However, with that freedom comes accountability, so you shouldn't be surprised, nor should you be defensive, when people complain about a blogmaster. What steps you take is up to you, naturally, but the readers have just as much right to complain as the blogmaster has right to be incendiary.
Rev's provacative style is something that draws a certain type of person to his site, which is fine. But there should still be a minimum standard of decorum and expected behavior for blogmasters. I would suggest that blogmasters be prohibited from changing usernames without a specific request and posting IP or other personal information. Banning and deletion are, of course, should be up to the blogmaster and what kind of site he wants to run.
Finally, you of all people should understand that HH's traffic is driven by being part of SBNation. Many of the writers you hired have been quality blogging for a long time and only seen the big bump in readership after moving to SBNation.
I'll repeat this one more time
In some ways, the Bleacher Dave thing was my fault because Rev complained to me in email about the trolling and asked me to help by contacting the guy and asking to stop. I basically told him it was his problem to deal with since it was his site (I constantly have to check for trolls and figured he should do the same), look what happened. I sort of feel like Peter Parker who let the guy who killed his Uncle Ben run by during the robbery. I learned my lesson on this one.
At the same time, I really wish ANers would just stop going over there. If you don't like what he says or how he says it, just stop. The site wasn't meant for you in the first place. There's a reason all of these sites are team based rather than general baseball.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Blez...
Speaking for myself now, I am a passionate A's fan...but I'm also a fan of the league as a whole, the sport as a whole, professional sports as a whole...hell, reduce it all the way to "anything remotely competitive", and I like it. Yet I also enjoy the artistry of good writing as well...and as luck would have it, there seem to be many others who share these same or similar interests on these blogs...but not just limited to this one. AN is awesome, but if I've got time, and I've read every recent diary here that I'm interested in, well, I'm probably going to go click on the Lookout Landing link to see if anything interesting has been posted there...and with Jeff, the front page writer, alone, you can count that there has been. His detailed analysis of specific aspects of the game, such as pitching mechanics with their "Rincon", Julio Mateo, is phenomenal, and it's very well-written too. And you don't even have to pay for it <cough> ESPN, BP, etc <cough>.
Simply stated, I have a lot of respect for what you've done for this blog, I just don't think you're seeing the full picture on this issue. There's been "trolling" at HH, sure, but that pales in comparison to the amount of, well, passive reading that's taken place at other sites by AN members.
by Cutthemullet on Sep 8, 2006 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I enjoy the Rev's vitriol...
by BleacherDave on Sep 8, 2006 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Invite some of their smack-talkers over here
by LowcountryJoe on Sep 8, 2006 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Boo!
by yeswecan @ Athletics Nation on Sep 8, 2006 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
re:
I get along fine with the Rev outside of HH, but whenever I'm there it's a completely different story.
by Marc Normandin @ Athletics Nation on Sep 21, 2006 4:38 AM PDT up reply actions
It's because LAXile is more popular than me...
you like me, you really like me!
None of this has been about love or hate
Is it right for a blogmaster to edit or delete non-offensive posts simply because he disagrees with the poster? Is it right for a blogmaster to change a username to include a KKK referrence? Is it right for a blogmaster to ban a poster simply because that poster believes differently on a subject?
Well, you're right, it's wrong
BLEZ
I totally agree that the Rev should be able to develop whatever voice he chooses;does that include an endorsment by SB Nation of his hacking into my account?
What is the privacy policy of SB Nation and how is my personal info safeguarded against abuse from the good Rev?
I got this e-mail from the Rev
From: "Artist Residency" <XXXXXXX.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: dave@bleacherdave.com
Subject: KKK
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 12:49:13 -0700
You like your handle better now with the Klan reference?
wow.
Its really unacceptable. SB Nation should be embarresed.
It's all very simple.
Blez, it sounds like AN Nation members
Do you see the difference?
Listen
At the same time, people like BleacherDave has about 10 accounts used expressly for the purposes of trolling over there. Take some responsibility for your own actions and stop being a troll.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
BLEZ,
I've seen all of your accounts over there
But you should also stop creating new accounts just to annoy Angel fans.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Those accounts were created
Which of my HH comments wouldn't you tolerate here? I don't think I've ever come close to crossing the line.
Thanks for addressing my privacy and defamation concerns. I look forward to meeting the Rev on my next trip to Angel stadium.
by BleacherDave on Sep 8, 2006 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I also don't think ANers should be on
I hate the Angels and the only time I ever go visit is when they lose because I like to revel in their misery. It's sick I know, but I enjoy seeing Angel fans crying.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I have accounts for LL and McCovey Chronicles...
HH? I don't even bother having an account. Can't imagine ever wanting to say anything there. Whatever. Their loss.
And that's exactly how ANers should
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
my LL account came in handy
It would be tempting to sign up just to pee all over HH when (not if) we eliminate them from contention, but even more fun would be to fly down there and see it in person if it does indeed come down to the last series, although I don't think it will.
I read HH sometimes, kind of like rubbernecking at a car accident, but I would never sign up and really participate. AN is so deeply satisfying as a community to me that there would be no point in going to a site where creativity and literacy is frowned upon and the proprietor is just trying to pimp for "hits" like some sort of cyber-crackhead.
by emperor nobody on Sep 8, 2006 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't knock your senibilities, Blez...
I don't indulge in personal attacks, profanity, homophobia, racial or ethnic slurs, or sexual degradation. I follow the Community Guidelines regarding speech.
Yet, anyone wants to attack me that way in an open forum, they are free to do so - I can take it. Just don't hack my username.
by BleacherDave on Sep 8, 2006 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I bet you could say plenty of
Then why provide the links?
I didn't realize the intent of SB Nation was some kind of Seperate but Equal community of sports blogs. I like to talk about trade ideas, that's my thing when I post a diary. I use the SB links to go talk to people who follow other teams so I can try and get a feel for how valuable a player is to his home team before I target him in a trade suggestion.
That's the type of community I thought SB Nation was trying to build. I'm sorry to hear that I was wrong.
The nature of these sites are tribal
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I got that
Now, if I go in disrespectful and get smacked around then so be it. I have no doubt that there are poeple who go elsewhere for the sole intent of raising a fuss. A troll is a troll is a troll no matter what colors they wear and I don't have any use for them. But I don't see any reason why there should be a problem with me going over to the GoodPhight and asking if Michael Bourn is for real. Is he going to be the Phillies' CF in the near future? Etc.
I thought the idea was to promote that kind of interaction between fans. Yeah, we'll hate the Mariners when we play them but when our teams aren't going head-to-head it should be OK to pay LL a friendly visit. Intelligent and sometimes witty discussion should not be restricted by team colors. But I guess not. Too bad.
And I'm supposed to be one of the bigger cynics around here. :/
re: I also don't think ANers should be on
First off, right now, for the Angels to advance two things need to happen. They need to play out of their minds and Oakland needs to blow it. So, they are going to be hoping and talking about Oakland choking.
Secondly, it is obvious that Rev acts like a 15 year old smack talker, so what is the poing of going over there and asking how Bartolo Colon's rehab is going or if Dallas McPherson is going to fit in next season. He has no special insight, so why bother? But, if that is what Angel fans what, so be it.
So, really what is the point of visiting the site. You know as an A's fan that it is just going to bother you and your opinion is not wanted.
by Athletics Central on Sep 8, 2006 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm sorry, but that's not right.
But I'm also a fan of baseball. I have accounts on 7 or 8 other sbnation sites, and I go there regularly not just to read, but also discuss things with them. If I want to know more about Billy Butler I'll go to Royals Review and ask them, and have a nice discussion. If I want to find out how Ben Sheets was coming along in his rehab earlier this season, and if people who know think he'll be the same pitcher he was before, I'll fo to the Brewers site. I've exchanged comments and emails with Jeff from LL, who has been as good a blogmaster as you can ask for.
Being an A's fan does not preclude me from being interested in other teams, in the sense that I enjoy watching baseball. If I wanted to talk about the Angels development of players from the Dominican, I'd go to HH. Of course, I won't since Rev is there. I go other places for that kind of discussion.
to be honest, as a member of AN and other sites, I'm bothered by your methods of running SB nation sometimes. If all that matters is "attracting an audience", and the way someone behaves is unimportant, that bothers me. Is it really worth the extra few dollars to have an embarassment like Rev represent your company in a market like LA? I'm certain that given a better blogmaster, there would be an initail dropoff of some Angels fans leaving HH, but the resulting boom from having a good leader would more than make up for it.
by Ryan Armbrust on Sep 8, 2006 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
you, grover, sal, and I...
by Cutthemullet on Sep 8, 2006 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Utterly Insane
by LD on Sep 8, 2006 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel for you, Blez
I don't go to HH anymore because I don't want to be driven nuts and I have no interest in talking to Angels fans. I just don't care, no interest in the blog because it sucks and I don't want to give the Rev hits... I'm just praying like hell that he doesn't get a cut of any of the money that comes from the hits and advertising on more kickass SBN sites.
However, I am a regular reader of LL and MCC, and it just strikes me as funny that SBN is purported to be a community, yet we shouldn't be there because "that's not why they're there".
I love the A's, but I'm also a fan of the game -- seems like a lot of us here are. Baseball, more than ever, isn't in a vacuum. It's FUN to follow ex-A's and cheer on their successes with their new fans. It's FUN to discuss trades and find out scouting reports from the fans who saw the new players every day. It's FUN to read about minor leaguers from other teams and what other teams are up to.
Maybe that's how you see the community, as being completely segregated, but it seems short-sighted to assume everyone enjoys the game like that. Plus, some of the bloggers you got are friggin' HILARIOUS, how are we supposed to NOT read them and appreciate them?
Unless there's gonna be a goddamn loyalty oath when I sign up for an SN, dictating which team I will love, I think it's extremely silly to try and tell us which SB sites we're "supposed" to go to.
"No. It's Oakland."
Yeah, Kyli!
"trolling"
Is referring to Frankie as "K-Fraud"
I can do that in a bar in Anaheim,or at Angel stadium - what makes the denizens of HH so tender?
There are some HHers that I've developed a friendly rivalry with; we needle each other and I take some lumps and dish some out.
by BleacherDave on Sep 8, 2006 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
So I'll take it that you don't approve of the KKK
That our privacy is protected to some extent at SB Nation?
by The Hypocrite on Sep 8, 2006 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Frankly no, you didn't
by The Hypocrite on Sep 8, 2006 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's what I did
I told him that we have very few things that will ever get someone booted from SBN, but that publishing someone's IP or their email or violating their privacy is one of them.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
3 Strikes?
by LD on Sep 8, 2006 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
BleacherDave
Bleacher Dave [ Edit ]
BleacherBDDave [ Edit ]
bleacherdave [ Edit ]
bleacherdave2 [ Edit ]
bleacherdave3 [ Edit ]
BleacherDave4 [ Edit ]
bleacherdave99 [ Edit ]
bleacherdave999 [ Edit ]
bleacherdave9999 [ Edit ]
bleacherdave99999 [ Edit ]
bleacherdave999999 [ Edit ]
bleacherdave9999999 [ Edit ]
bleacherdave99999999 [ Edit ]
bleacherdave999999999 [ Edit ]
BleacherDaveDave [ Edit ]
BleacherDaveDaveDave [ Edit ]
bleacherdaveisbanned [ Edit ]
bleacherdaveislikeathletesfoot [ Edit ]
bleacherdaveispersistent [ Edit ]
bleacherdaverisesfromthedead [ Edit ]
BleacherDavid [ Edit ]
bleacherDavid2 [ Edit ]
BleacherDavid3 [ Edit ]
That is WAY more than ten.
A troll is a troll - wear it.
by RevHalofan on Sep 8, 2006 10:47 AM PDT reply actions
I need a new shirt
My "Got Boobs?" shirt doesn't cut it anymore.
How about this one?
It's perfect for sitting in front of your computer and blogging all day, or heading out for a quick trip to The Android's Dungeon!
I don't think so
ten, schmen -- that's just stathead talk
sabermetrics! sabermetrics!
Ten, thirty, one hundred, whatever...
yea
by Ryan Armbrust on Sep 8, 2006 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
just by the humor of some of those handles
by Cutthemullet on Sep 8, 2006 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
it's pretty obvious
they're all named bleacherdave...
Now, I don't know what he said, since you deleted his comments. But I'll assume that it was provocative, but not over the line.
I've been on message boards for a long, long time, and I've found that often, the best solution for "trolls" is to simply ignore them. Don't get all riled up, don't delete their comments, and don't do something stupid and escalate it by changing things. Leave what they said for everyone to see, and ignore. If it was really trollish, then it'll just pass. If it wasn't, then it deserves to stay.
I've found that a troll that gets ignored disappears quickly. After all, what fun is it to poke a bear with a stick if the bear won't acknowledge you? Very very few will troll for long if they get no responses.
Try it. Or don't and continue to get bogged down in controversy, instead of watching baseball.
by Ryan Armbrust on Sep 8, 2006 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
My questions were not rhetorical, by the way.
you. are. rad.
by yeswecan @ Athletics Nation on Sep 8, 2006 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
you are banned for insincerity.
all the attention is amazing
by yeswecan @ Athletics Nation on Sep 8, 2006 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
we're very process-oriented around here ...
The Rev, of course, mirrors the Angels' plate approach: swing wildly, miss often.
touch
by yeswecan @ Athletics Nation on Sep 8, 2006 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Whereas his "reasoning"...
Having your IP address published is nothing?
LMAO!!!!
by 510inDenver on Sep 18, 2006 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I not going to stop at two cents on this one.
Do you really think that that message board would be fun if many people who share my views on politics began to infest that site?
The truth, though, is that I would not go over there to post because doing so would be absolutely immature, disruptive, and would cause all sorts of discontent. Why invite that.
Now, some of you may have just raised an eyebrow because you've seen me do exactly what I said I wouldn't do. You have a point, too. But rarely (IF EVER) have I ever started with the politicking without being engaged by another member [that is, either responding to someone else that "went there" first or being replied to in such a way where the "invitation" presented itself]
I have acknowledged that I push the envelope at times but I have never been asked to stop or have been sent a private e-mail stating that I have just earned a CVG. it's probably because my tone doesn't come near crossing the line and I try my hardest to never shut anyone down with the way I word things.
Some of us (I am not one) are probably contributing members to HH and have to watch their tones and watch the behavior as guests to the board. Those who do this probably do not get screwed with by Rev. If you do not know how to be good guests then guess what, expect some grief. News flash: you're guests here, too, no matter how long you've posteed here or no matter how much good will and previous contribution you've made to the community.
The privacy concerns are very real things, though. And it looks as though Tyler has or is dealing with this. I personally trust him, don't you, AN? So this talk of threatening revolt of SBNation, demanding oversight of something that doesn't event truly belong to you, and exoriating indefensible behavior because some other shitty behavior precipitated it, is just farking childish.
Stay in your own circle -- as a guest, mind you -- or learn to accept the behaviors of the members of the other circle that you decide to enter -- again as a guest; and one on their best behavior.
I agree with the principles set forth
"Some of us (I am not one) are probably contributing members to HH and have to watch their tones and watch the behavior as guests to the board. Those who do this probably do not get screwed with by Rev. If you do not know how to be good guests then guess what, expect some grief."
That idea does not jive with my experience at HH.
I agree with the concept of being a good guest but if we are going to use the "guest" metaphor than there should be some expectations, some standards, regarding the host's behavior. There are good hosts and bad hosts, just as there are good or bad guests. If the host is a functionary of another, and their sole purpose is to serve as host of the function, then it is acceptable for a guest to comment on the host's behavior to the employer.
Now, Rev is a bad host therefore I do not visit his site. Rev is an employee of Blez, therefore I feel fully justified in taking my displeasure to him.
Funny thing is that many
I appreciate your support, man. And also understanding that we gotta let our sites have their own personality even if it isn't always a pretty one.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Seems pretty obvious to me
JUST BOYCOTT TODD'S DEPRESSING LITTLE DIARY. The only time I'll go over there again is the day we clinch the division.
Nice post
Apparently the Rev has replaced toon as AN public enemy number one.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, look at all the pub...
But a boycott isn't enough. Go visit every SB Nation site except for HH, then make a quick jump over to 6-4-2. That will show TPTB how much their readers care about quality content from SB Nation websites. When the rest of SB Nation is getting a couple thousand hits a day and the Rev is lucky to pull in double digits the end will come soon enough.
Hits
So, if you want to stick it to the Rev, come over to True Blue L.A. for a bunch of news that has absolutely nothing to do with your team :).
by regfairfield on Sep 8, 2006 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
i just realized...
I need to stop posting while doing 10 other things... like homework and watching tv.
by Ryan Armbrust on Sep 8, 2006 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
If I call you a name will you go post in
;-)
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
229 comments and counting...
Oh man, I laughed so hard at this
by Amnesiac727 on Sep 8, 2006 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Good
oompa loompas?
by Amnesiac727 on Sep 8, 2006 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm gonna tell RevHalo that you're making fun of
Hey
Well at least now Nico
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not gonna let a pony talk to me like that.
That is Nico beating the pony!
by Amnesiac727 on Sep 8, 2006 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
If we're going to continue beating things
I think Nico's pony
That horse isn't dead...
or at least the Duke lacrosse team
I love the one Grant has on McC
I thought we all agreed that was a camel?
by Amnesiac727 on Sep 8, 2006 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
ok
by Amnesiac727 on Sep 8, 2006 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh My God!!
Thanks, y'all! This has been more fun
That's the beauty of SBN
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 8, 2006 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
YOU TROUBLEMAKER!
of course you guys do realise
by Amnesiac727 on Sep 8, 2006 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
What?
it's....
</gene wilder in young frankenstein voice>
by Ryan Armbrust on Sep 8, 2006 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Rev is more the Larry Cohen "It's Alive"
Rev's Dead
by BruceBochte on Sep 8, 2006 10:09 PM PDT reply actions
Is that a Curtis Mayfield song?
Blez
Thanks for running this site the way you do!
One of the Funniest Diaries I've Read
by drummer510 on Sep 9, 2006 1:59 PM PDT reply actions

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