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Baseball_tiny by baseballgirl on in News Comment 234 comments

FRANK F. THOMAS. How can you be any better?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

Today's game was HUGE. Turning a loss into a win seems to be what our team does best lately, and it adds no small amount of satisfaction that we did it against a team who needed to win about ten times more than we did today. And it's icing on an already fantastic cake that Frank Thomas pretty much single-handedly pushed his new team closer to the playoffs, and at the same time, pushed his old team away from them. Poetic justice, that.

Today's game also summed up perfectly why even though I would much rather face the White Sox than the Twins in the playoffs, I am physically incapable of rooting for the White Sox idiotic style of baseball play.

I have long believed that the White Sox of 2005 were actually a 110 win team that was mismanaged into a 99 win team. Any time your top basestealer can only manage to steal 69% of the bases attempted, he has cost his team much-needed outs, especially leading off a powerhouse lineup. How many homeruns were hit after he had been cleared from the bases?

And don't even get me started on 'small ball'. The White Sox are no small ball team. They are among the league leaders in power numbers, they have stellar pitching, and the only reason they seem to lose games is because their offense can't always make up for their manager's inexplicably stupid decisions. In today's game, for instance, who in the world lays down a sacrifice bunt with no one out in the second inning and your 8 & 9 hitters waiting on deck, against a pitcher who couldn't find the strike zone with a detailed map?

And on that note, I wonder what Ozzie has to say about his team allowing the go-ahead and insurance runs to be walked in by two different pitchers? That is small ball, right?

And I say this every single time I write, but my biggest concern for <ahem> October baseball is the fact that Macha leaves Zito in too long. I can understand today--you have sixteen games in a row and have to somewhat protect your bullpen; Zito is durable, and an innings-eater. Yet...what if you have a game that you must win in a short series and the Zito we saw today was pitching? How much rope do you give your #1 starter in a game you absolutely have to win, and can Macha pull a quick trigger if/when it is required?

But enough with the griping. All is happy and glittery with the A's right now, because not only do they have FRANK F. THOMAS, but rumors have hit the AP wire...

Breaking News

RICH HARDEN COULD START THURSDAY

I have mixed feelings about this. First of all, it hasn't been confirmed by the A's...yet. We'll have to wait and see. But if true...wow. I have always thought that Harden, if he came back at all during this season, should pitch out of the 'pen, But I don't make the decisions. However, giving Zito an extra day of rest and throwing him to start the series against the Angels next weekend does have a certain appeal.

And I think it goes without saying, but I will never forgive the A's organization if anything close to what happened to Liriano happens to Harden. If there is any doubt that Harden is not 100%, I want the A's to shut him down for the season and revisit this issue in March. We'll play without him.

However, if I'm selling sunshine and puppies--and I am!--then this is the best damn news I've heard in months, and could be the difference between the first week of October and the second!

Hopefully, the Texas Rangers can remember that their offense averages over six runs a game, and put up more than one run against the Angels tonight, and we can start the single-digit countdown.

And just a reminder...if you live in the LA Area, we're meeting again at Grunions in Manhattan Beach on Wednesday night to watch the game. Come out and cheer the A's with the SoCal ANers!

A'S GO FOR THE SERIES SWEEP TOMORROW! LET'S GO OAK-LAND!!!!!

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Now, THAT's...
what I call a power nap.  3-4 when I hit the recliner, 7-4 when I wake up.  RECLINER MOJO!

by BleacherDave on Sep 16, 2006 4:09 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL
Same here! We should nap more often!

by anomaly_kat on Sep 16, 2006 6:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is scary,
my projects around the house were finished by gametime, I faded out on the ass-end of a 3-4 score and wake up and we're up. I hate missing part of the game, but if that's the way it has to be.
I'm not going to Cooperstown until Rickey does.

by rickey24 on Sep 16, 2006 7:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

speaking of Hawk and putting things on the board..
I figure the MAGIC NUMBER SHOULD BE PUT ON THE BOOOOOARRRD....YES!!!
"Straight outta Oakland, California where we sparkin on ya" - 2Pac

by Erik being Erik on Sep 16, 2006 4:10 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's there!
Blez rocks!
"Why won't everyone do what I want???" ~SportySpice

by baseballgirl on Sep 16, 2006 4:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow big headline
who broke the news--Robert Buan?
"WTF is wrong with you people TASTELESS COMMENTS. I'm disgusted. Mocking a 10 year old's horrible painful death." --eshock

by rubin sierra on Sep 16, 2006 4:11 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

who broke the news?
i did. heh ;)
---
Frank Thomas looked super today. What a game! 4 RBIs, a sac-fly and a homer. WOW! The fans even started looking like him today.

by slobberknocker on Sep 16, 2006 4:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The magic number is on the board
so stop complaining ;-)

By the way, I'm SOOOOOO glad that I have tickets to Thursday's game.  Let's hope Harden has a great start.  This could be H-U-G-E.

by Blez on Sep 16, 2006 4:12 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my bad...
for the record not a complaint...a request. Thank you sir, I'll have another
"Straight outta Oakland, California where we sparkin on ya" - 2Pac

by Erik being Erik on Sep 16, 2006 4:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd been resisting, but the pressure
was too much.  I buckled.

You were like, come on Blez, everyone's doing it.  Don't you want to be cool like us?

My Mom is going to be so disappointed in me.

by Blez on Sep 16, 2006 4:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

tsk tsk
I hope Maya doesn't see this....her daddy folding to peer pressure....you are disappointing TWO generations with that one....

(by the way, thanks for putting the magic number up!!)

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Sep 16, 2006 4:17 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, really--
Don't buckle to pressure and put up the magic number. Just take a bunch of drugs like all the cool kids are doing.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 4:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

<passes blez a joint>
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 4:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

<takes puff>
<begins rambling incoherently like the folks at HH>

by Blez on Sep 16, 2006 4:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whoa, dude.
MAGIC numbers.
"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Sep 16, 2006 10:39 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

<cough> sir...
the line for the bridge is to the left.

by DMOAS on Sep 16, 2006 4:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've been wanting to see the Magic Number as well
...but I thought maybe you were being the visionary leader you are Blez by holding fast to the idea that it was bad luck to flaunt it around. I sure hope you know what you're doing... :)

by willcmatthews on Sep 16, 2006 6:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lucky!!!!!
Any other day this year and I could skip work to go....but Thursday, I cannot... Damn.
There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Sep 16, 2006 4:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, how often does one
get the chance to see Rich Harden start a game? Basically, June 4th.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 4:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah it's like an eclipse
I don't want to look too closely or I might wind up blind.

by Blez on Sep 16, 2006 4:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Take tons of photos...
'cause you never know if it'll happen again. :(
Something tells me Joe would not be cool with that.

by Jennifer on Sep 16, 2006 4:17 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually, eclipses happen more predictably
"It took eight hours...seven-and-a-half to find the heart." -- Steve McCatty on Charlie Finley's heart surgery.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Sep 16, 2006 4:46 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah
a Harden start is more of a Gamma Ray Burst kind of event.
"Even if you know the deck is stacked in your favor, you still have to have the discipline to trust the math and the cojones to go to the ATM." BB

by green star oakland on Sep 16, 2006 11:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

or like a red sox world championship
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 11:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's just as well, Blez...
The magic number was in signatures and posts just about everywhere.
Rap Cat!

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Sep 16, 2006 5:09 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who was that masked man?
I hope he knows how grateful we are.

And the Magic Number's up on the big front page board.  Most excellent.

Like the Swingin' A's...except that Reggie is batting RH!!! -- saint

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 16, 2006 4:12 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL
Best. Subject.  Line.  Ever.

by Blez on Sep 16, 2006 4:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wasn't mad at Macha
for leaving Zito in, I was mad at Zito for pitching like a FITZ-less moron and then suddenly deciding to groove pitches to free-swingers. That's hard to manage.

Zito is above-average at pitching out of trouble he has pitched into, so I'd rather see him in the 6th/7th than Sauerbeck or Gaudin. I just wish he'd pitch with a little more command.

After the ASB, the A's told Ellis to be more aggressive early in the count; it paid off today, in spades.

White Sox at the Coliseum the last 26 tries: 4-22.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 4:13 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LET'S GO OAKLAND!  <clap clap clapclapclap>
LET'S GO OAKLAND!  <clap clap clapclapclap>
LET'S GO OAKLAND!  <clap clap clapclapclap>
LET'S GO OAKLAND!  <clap clap clapclapclap>
LET'S GO OAKLAND!  <clap clap clapclapclap>
LET'S GO OAKLAND!  <clap clap clapclapclap>
LET'S GO OAKLAND!  <clap clap clapclapclap>

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Sep 16, 2006 4:13 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good wrap
and by the way, after taking a peek over at HH it just dawned on me that when one of their "kind" make any positive or complimentary remark about the A's they are so very quick to qualify it.

 ...."i didn mean it big daddy, don't hit!, it was a joke,  i was just makin an observation...don't hit"

the great playoff miss of 2004 followed by the good try of 2005...and 2006...is getting down to it!

by ak_A on Sep 16, 2006 4:15 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

quick to qualify
I have to admit, I feel flinchy and defensive here at AN whenever I want to make a positive comment about Mike Scioscia (whom I really like).

I imagine others feel similarly when they want to criticize Beane here.  But since I love Billy and never have anything bad to say about him, I wouldn't really know.

<drinks more kool-aid>

"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Sep 16, 2006 5:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What a fantastic day.
It could only be better if at the end of the night that oh so magic number can be whittled down to 9.
there's simply no club like the white elephant club

by walk off bunt on Sep 16, 2006 4:17 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ABC
ran out of graphics and are ESPN now?
It's It. What is it? aim: encryptthisthat

by Hit4TheCycle on Sep 16, 2006 4:20 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ugh
I know I'm not the Oregon fan out there right now having a heart attack.....

I didn't even notice the damn graphics...

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Sep 16, 2006 4:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow...great finish
the great playoff miss of 2004 followed by the good try of 2005...and 2006...is getting down to it!

by ak_A on Sep 16, 2006 4:25 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yup
You can sure tell who the supposed "underdog" was in that game.  OU has nothing to be ashamed of and they weren't going anywhere with their backup QB anyway.  
"A's Brand Baseball: The worst best baseball you've ever seen!" -Chavvy

by ohtobe21likehuston on Sep 16, 2006 4:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

OU?
That's pretty confusing.
It's It. What is it? aim: encryptthisthat

by Hit4TheCycle on Sep 16, 2006 4:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sorry
O.U. = Oklahoma University
"A's Brand Baseball: The worst best baseball you've ever seen!" -Chavvy

by ohtobe21likehuston on Sep 16, 2006 4:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That would be the University of Oklahoma
Stick to what you know
"It took eight hours...seven-and-a-half to find the heart." -- Steve McCatty on Charlie Finley's heart surgery.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Sep 16, 2006 4:50 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who cares...
The Green and Gold worked them over in the 4th today! Go PAC 10!
"I see Milton Bradley being the Oaktown player that breaks out this year." breaks out... breaks out of where? jail?

by gdub171 on Sep 16, 2006 4:58 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You have zero idea what you're talking about
Paul Thompson, the "backup quarterback," has put up better numbers this year than Bomar did last year.

OU's failures have been on the other side of the ball this year. Our much touted defense has not shown up and played a complete game yet.

At any rate, this game OU was completely screwed by the refs.  Even Dan Fouts, who is a total homer when it comes to Oregon, admitted that the Sooners were screwed.

At least Texass won't win another MNC!

"It took eight hours...seven-and-a-half to find the heart." -- Steve McCatty on Charlie Finley's heart surgery.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Sep 16, 2006 4:49 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Taking care of the
Longhorns was truly a pleasure.
Free Clarett Now!

by tresselfan on Sep 16, 2006 6:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Did You Know?
The last two times there was a #1 v. #2 match up in the regular season the loser went on to win the National Championship?

OU has no shot against Texas this year, but then again neither does anyone else in the Big 12

Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.

by TexasAsfan on Sep 16, 2006 6:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ohio State
Nice game last week. At least you know you lost that game. If you watched the Oregon game you saw that their were numerous poor calls that went against OU. The clock regularly didn't start in the last 6 minutes of the game as it was supposed to. That is until OU ran the play before the missed kick. OU was forced into having to try to win a game from behind that it had won if the officials had been competent.
Not looking for a fight...just fair officiating.

by yblood2hof on Sep 16, 2006 7:16 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No Notre Dame
Hey how come you guys don't play NOtre Dame every year? Isn't that a requirement for the Big 11. Oh, sorry forgot you all don't know how to count. The Big One and little nine.

by yblood2hof on Sep 16, 2006 7:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We did that..
In the mid-90's we did a home and home with the South (b)enders...won them both, and then Lou quit.  Beating Lou was half of the fun of it, so we decided to spread the wealth. I think we have a series coming up with the Trojans in a couple years. Can't wait.
Free Clarett Now!

by tresselfan on Sep 17, 2006 9:10 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ohio State thought
By the way enjoy the BCS Championship game. Your team looks pretty good.

by yblood2hof on Sep 16, 2006 7:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That...
would be me.  Oregon sucks.  The only green and gold I see are the ducks.  Bleh

by RuQ on Sep 17, 2006 5:30 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's part of a branding...
...renaming "ABC Sports" to "ESPN on ABC."
Rap Cat!

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Sep 16, 2006 5:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

FITZ my a**
A great win today but Zito continues to baffle me with his Questec nibbling.  Everyone was saying the same things about Z in May and nothing has really changed.

I wish with all of my heart and loins that FITZ becomes a reality come playoff time.  If not... I think it could be another devastating ALDS for all of us.

Great job, BBG!  I really enjoy your enthusiasm and your analyses are extremely FUN to read.  

"A's Brand Baseball: The worst best baseball you've ever seen!" -Chavvy

by ohtobe21likehuston on Sep 16, 2006 4:24 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Today's game illustrated
why it's so important to have a bullpen that has ability and depth. The A's have both; the White Sox neither. For that reason, it would be fine to face the White Sox in the post-season, but thanks to us, we may not have the chance!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 4:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so whaddya sayin'
we screwed OURSELVES?  Keep it clean, man.

The bullpen makes me feel better about the playoffs but Joe Zito needs to come to town and bring Jobu so they can fix his son's head pronto.

"A's Brand Baseball: The worst best baseball you've ever seen!" -Chavvy

by ohtobe21likehuston on Sep 16, 2006 4:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Your subject line
is the answer to "Why did you choose that pair of jeans?"
"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Sep 16, 2006 5:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

<chortles bountifully>
Nice.
Like the Swingin' A's...except that Reggie is batting RH!!! -- saint

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 16, 2006 5:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Couple of things...
  • The media was wrong to label the White Sox' play "Small Ball." It really is, as Ozzie labeled it, "Smart Ball," which includes pitching, defense and three run homeruns.
  • Podsednik stole bases at an over 80% rate until his hernia in 2005, which occurred around the all-star break. He's stolen at about 60% since, and his attempts are correspondingly down.
  • It's Frank E. Thomas
Head to southsidesox.com for wailing and gnashing of teeth. Lot's of stats are being thrown around, but the two that I like the best are that Javier Vazquez has allowed ten runs in his last five starts, and we've lost every single walk.

Alternatively, the bullpen has blown leads after the 7th inning in 5 of our last 16 games. Our offense has been shut out by Kason Gabbard once over that span. If we had won even half of those six very winnable games, where our WPA was probably 75% for each, we would be leading the wildcard. If we'd won all of them, we'd have the best record in baseball and be ahead of Detroit by two games.

The White Sox made their move, it's just that the bullpen and the offense for one game shot it down. The past 16 games WERE the White Sox' move to win. They haven't got another run left in them after this one deflated. We're going to miss the playoffs after winning ~93 games in the toughest division in baseball. Stick a fork in us, we're done. You killed us yesterday, when Esteban Loiaza beat us on a day Johan Santana lost.

by Stealfirstbase on Sep 16, 2006 4:29 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, it's Frank F. Thomas.
Short for an "F" word which I cannot put on the front page. ;)
"Why won't everyone do what I want???" ~SportySpice

by baseballgirl on Sep 16, 2006 4:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As a Sox fan, can I ask you a question?
How do you feel about Ozzie as your manager?
"Why won't everyone do what I want???" ~SportySpice

by baseballgirl on Sep 16, 2006 4:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's one of the best in baseball.
His strengths are that...
  • He manages his starting pitchers and his bullpen very well. He allows starters to work out of jams and pitch deep into games and he picks the right relievers for the jobs more often than not.
  • He rests his starting position players often, keeping them fresh and the bench sharp.
  • He treats injuries very well. After a player's been cleared by the medical staff and says he's ready to play, Ozzie rests him one more day. This prevents the White Sox from getting a lot of nagging injuries at the expense of having guys not available during games, which I think is a fine tradeoff. This is the reason that you didn't see Mike MacDougal yesterday after he was cleared to play, and haven't seen Jenks this series (injured hip)
  • He makes good substitions within games.
  • He's not afraid to play rookies
  • He plays the hot hand in his hitters and relievers to great effect
His weakesses are lesser evils, but they're easy to see...
  • He's beholden to the Stolen Base
  • He's beholden to the Productive Out
  • He can be inflexible and less than creative about his batting order. He often tends to give player's "roles" that they fill, and when they don't fill them, they go in his doghouse. An example would be how Ozzie doesn't always play Brian Anderson in center field because he doesn't trust him to hit, even though he recognizes that Anderson's defense makes him superior to Mackowiak's defense and offense in center. A better example is the "role" of Pablo Ozuna as back-up leadoff man: He only plays when Podsednik sits. Podsednik's role as "leadoff hitter" is another example. He can't lose that job until he performs poorly in it.
I should note that the good always outweighs the bad with Ozzie. His insightful comments outweigh his bigoted ones. His willingness to be creative and try out new things for players eventually outweighs his idea of their previous "role." For example, if the White Sox had Kevin Youkilis, Ozzie would eventually bat him leadoff.

Also, another point in his favor is that he has established a meritocracy on the White Sox, where the best get moved into the roles where they do the most good. Matt Thornton's overtaken the slumping Neal Cotts, for example.

by Stealfirstbase on Sep 16, 2006 5:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks for that
Excellent and well-balanced defense of Ozzie.  Around here we usually only hear the bad stuff.
"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Sep 16, 2006 5:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who isn't?
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.

by TexasAsfan on Sep 16, 2006 6:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"He treats injuries very well."
fire larry davis, hire ozzie?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 5:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, but
He does it by giving your best players a good bit of rest. Juan Uribe, Tadahito Iguchi, Joe Crede and Jermaine Dye all have fewer plate appearances than you'd expect due to Ozzie's policies.

Oddly enough, he doesn't really rest Konerko or Thome much.

And he doesn't rest Podsednik ENOUGH.

by Stealfirstbase on Sep 16, 2006 5:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reading through this...
I see that Ozzie's style of managing does have certain tradeoffs. The fact that he won't use players until they're absolutely healthy has cost us games. The same goes for him resting position players quite a bit. It costs us games to have inferior talent out there.

In the long term, Ozzie's insistence on health and rest probably helps the Sox avoid large injuries and keeps them fresh. That probably helps them win more games than their bench loses.

The fact is that White Sox bench players play quite a bit, to the extent that you rarely see all 8 of the White Sox starters in the same game at once. You usually see between 1 and 3 backups in the game. This probably skews our pythagorean standings a bit, making our talent appear less than it really is.

On a side note: I do have three specific complaints about Ozzie.

  1. Keeping Podsednik in the leadoff role because you haven't got any alternative that fit that "role" and
  2. not using Ross Gload enough in left field have damaged the team's chances of winning. It may have cost us a game over the second half, maybe two.
  3. The White Sox should have rested A.J. Pierzynski more this season, as he's wearing out. However, this is more KW's fault than it is Ozzie's. KW equipped the team with Chris Widger and Sandy Alomar as backups.

by Stealfirstbase on Sep 16, 2006 5:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

With his players
do you think Ozzie is more of a hard-ass (similar to LaRussa, or back in the day Dick Williams or Gene Mauch or Dallas Green), or is he more of a supportive, positive guy (like Joe Torre)?  Obviously, that blow-up of the non-bean ball was a pretty ugly incident, but I'm not sure it was representative of the way Ozzie relates to his players in general.  As a player, he definitely had a very positive reputation, but since becoming a manager he's also developed a rep for making a fair number of controversial statements that piss people off (the beer stuff yesterday is a harmless example of that).
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Sep 16, 2006 5:54 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good question...
I'd say he's generally supportive of players, but I wouldn't put a blow-up past him. He's certainly more supportive than guys like detroit's manager or Phil Garner.

I think what would tick him off isn't failure, it's not doing what he tells you. The case of Sean Tracey is an example of Ozzie getting pissed when someone just decided not to do what he told them to do.

So I'd say that blow-up's pretty representative of Ozzie. The only thing that'll tick him off would be insubordination, or criticizing another player in the media, or refusing to play winter ball. Something outside of the game would be the only thing--I think--that would draw a negative tirade. He's mostly supportive of players regarding baseball.

by Stealfirstbase on Sep 16, 2006 6:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not even close
The Tigers players love Leyland.  Even Pudge loves playing for him.  This has been a constant theme in the Detroit papers all year.  What are you basing your claim that Ozzie is more supportive on?  I'd love to know, because Leyland has yet to berate a rookie pitcher for not hitting a batter after being ordered to.  Ozzie's supportive when he wants to be.  He blames the player when it benefits him - read Anderson and Podsednik.
I personally think he runs his mouth too much.  There was no reason to dignify Magglio's comments with a response, and his reaction to Marriotti was absurd.

by IndianaAsfan on Sep 16, 2006 7:21 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To each their own...
It may surprise you, but I don't read the Detroit papers. Leyland just always struck me as a hard ass. If he's not, then he's not. Let's not make this an inquisition.

by Stealfirstbase on Sep 16, 2006 8:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not an inquisition
and it doesn't suprise me that you don't read the Detroit papers - I wouldn't expect you to.  My point was that you were making a statement of fact - Leyland is a hard ass - when that is really a statement of opinion, based on nothing but your personal feelings.  You said Guillen supports his player unlike Leyland - which couldn't be further from the truth.  If throwing facts into the discussion constitutes an inquisition, then guilty as charged.  But I didn't intend it as an attack, don't take is personally.

by IndianaAsfan on Sep 17, 2006 6:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I kind of assumed that
the "F" stood for "F---ing" but only baseballgirl knows for sure...

Sacrificing at the bottom of the order in the second inning against a pitcher who isn't getting outs isn't "smart ball," it's "dumb ball," IMO, as was asking Iguchi to sacrifice prior to Dye's HR. One problem the White Sox had today with their offense is that they only had 25 outs to play with--they intentionally gave away the other two. For that I say, "Thanks, Ozzie."

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 4:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thank you very much...
...I love when awesome people from other sites wander on and give us some info on other teams. :)
"Why won't everyone do what I want???" ~SportySpice

by baseballgirl on Sep 16, 2006 10:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'm not so worried about harden
i've always thought he should be brought back this season if possible, and that he should be a starter and not a reliever.  

papelbon is being moved from the bullpen to the rotation because they think it'll reduce his injury risk.

even if he gets hurt again, i don't think it's a big deal.  you think if he's so injury prone, somehow he'll magically be healthy from now on if he doesn't pitch until next march?

the bottom line is, harden could get injured at any point, whether it's tomorow or next year, and whether it's as a starter or as a reliever.  
if that's the case, i'd rather use him as a starter since they're far more  valuable, and i'd rather use him NOW when we're heading to the playoffs and have a chance to win a championship than next spring.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 4:31 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Second that emotion
The time is now.
Like the Swingin' A's...except that Reggie is batting RH!!! -- saint

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 16, 2006 5:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Plus...
..and I think this has been brought up before...  Given Harden's injury risk, even if he does re-injure himself (crosses-fingers), at least he will have the entire offseason to recover.  Who knows?  If we wait to bring him back next season and he reinjures himself right off the bat, he's gone for most of the regular season again.  As long as he feels good and pitches well, let's throw him into the mix!

by spiffyjwc on Sep 16, 2006 5:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I couldn't have said it better
if my name was xmikeAx.  Let's go Rich!

by mikeA on Sep 16, 2006 6:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No surprise from Zito
He really struggles in day games at the Coliseum. In his last 3 day starts there, he's given up 5HR and a total of 16 runs. The walks did not help at all either. So I'm glad that Zito is taking on the Angels Friday night instead of the Indians Thursday afternoon. At least Rich has a chance to win in the daytime.
FRANK THOMAS = MVP!
Start the CHANT!
"We are deep-sea diving in the Monongahela River after heavy rains in the western Pennsylvania area." - A's Fearless Leader

by OaktownRajah on Sep 16, 2006 4:37 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Zito pitching Friday night???
<checks wallet for money to buy tickets>

Wheeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Sep 16, 2006 5:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Damn....the Rangers aren't on EI today.
I so love rooting against the Angels.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Sep 16, 2006 4:40 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Needless to say, but HUUUGE victory today.
I am glad this team realizes that the best way to avoid the Angels making a run is to...simply keep winning themselves.. Lets hope the Rangers pull one out tonight and tomorrow. A sweep would be fine and dandy manana, as well.

by nfadil4 on Sep 16, 2006 4:42 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ugh, whose idea was it to have ...
Johnny Knoxville throw out the first pitch? Zito's? Swish's?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/photo?slug=getty-57210330jj011_chicago_white_6_16_39_pm&prov=getty

"We are deep-sea diving in the Monongahela River after heavy rains in the western Pennsylvania area." - A's Fearless Leader

by OaktownRajah on Sep 16, 2006 4:51 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was behind the plate for the first pitch
The funny thing was, when he got up on the mound, he paused for a second... and I was thinking "Oh shit, what's he gonna do now?!".  But he just threw the ball like all the BofA execs before him.  Swish hung out with him for a while after though.
"When the A's suck, the terrorists win" ~ Poppy

by eamb on Sep 16, 2006 5:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At least, he is likable Jackass
Unlike the other Jackass who catches for the ChiSox. He will play tomorrow.
Macha is a great manager. -Ron Washington

by pachydermOAFC on Sep 16, 2006 5:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He is truly a jackass...
but I appreciated that he warmed up extensively with the Swish/Haren look-a-like ballboy before throwing the pitch.  But he really is a jackass.

by mikeA on Sep 16, 2006 7:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

On that note...
Several years ago, I drove up from LA with my then girlfriend for a concert and picked up a friend of her's along the way.  

She had warned me that I probably would not like her friend, and sure enough, as soon as the friend got in the car, she proclaimed that Jackass: The Movie was the funniest movie she had ever seen.

by mikeA on Sep 16, 2006 7:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As soon as the wife comes home and says I can...
I am buying tickets to the Angels series this weekend.  I must see the A's clinch on their own turf.  I am going to use guilt, coersion, and damn lies if neccessary to get her to agree.  Especially since last year when I saw the last series in person and all alone.  
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Sep 16, 2006 4:51 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How great would it be...
to clinch against the Angels in Oakland.  And, then go down to Anaheim and start Jason Windsor in a meaningless series.  Let's see how Phiz and Hud spin that to be a positive.

by dolemite on Sep 16, 2006 7:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Confirming Harden's start
Well, Curt Young is the pitching coach and he is quoted as saying the start will happen if the side session goes as expected Monday.  I'm not sure how much more "confirming" the A's can do.
I'm not so sure I like him trying to come back this year.  If there is a recurrence, it enhances the chances of Tommy John, and then Harden is out all NEXT year as well.
I just hope Harden and Crosby don't turn into the A's version of Wood and Pryor (position differences notwithstanding).

by IndianaAsfan on Sep 16, 2006 5:04 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Couple of thoughts...
Is it just me or do you hate it when you get very loud opposing team fans?
The 2 rows behind me had very vocal Sox fans.
I tend to cheer louder when that happens.

Best part was when Frank F'n Thomas steps in the box and the guy behind me says "The sox know how to pitch this guy. He's as good as out"
Immediately followed by the home run.

The other thing is, does everyone that's not a Sox fan hate AJ?

It seems to me, if you're not a Sox fan, you hate AJ. And funny enough, if you look at the other blogs, if you're not an Angels fan, you hate them too.

by whyareyou on Sep 16, 2006 5:05 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just got back from the game
WE had the masks waving in the stands when the Big Hurt hit it out of the park and woke everybody up.

Zito was shaky all day, in fact I thought Vazquez mostly outpitched him except for making a mistake to Thomas. But Zito -- and the A's -- get the win. That's baseball.

Ozzie said the same thing today as he did last night  -- his pitchers need to throw strikes, especially against the A's, and his relievers did not execute.

Harden last pitched on my birthdaqy. We were all so excited that he was named to start. But the aftermath of that game was injuring his elbow. So I'm not so excited this time...

by OaklandSi on Sep 16, 2006 5:18 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Was it mask day for the Big Hurt?
And if so, could you post some photos? I'd love to see that. That's one menacing inner circle HoF calibre crowd.

by Stealfirstbase on Sep 16, 2006 5:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I so regret not bringing my camera!!
Would you like a photo of just the mask?

Alternatively, I'm sure someone on this site took photos...

by OaklandSi on Sep 16, 2006 5:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll google it
But I don't know how to post photos.

Good Halloween costume.

by Stealfirstbase on Sep 16, 2006 6:58 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Harden
I think the real reason -- and the only reason -- to start Harden now is to get him ready to be a starter for the playoffs.

Having him for one or two regular season starts really isn't going to make much difference for our regular season.  Having him in the playoff rotation could make a very big difference.

In order to achieve that, we need to do two things:  (1) Determine if he really will be ready, so that we have time to plan around it if he's not, and (2) get him properly stretched out and back in practice, so that he's not starting cold with his first real start in several months in a big playoff game.

If Harden starts on Thursday, I basically see that as a rehab assignment.  The minor league season is over, so if he's going to rehab anywhere, it's gonna be in Oakland.  The fact that we have a comfortable lead in the pennant race makes this possible, because it means we really can treat it as a rehab for Harden. Whether Harden gets pulled early or left in for a while can be strictly a function of what he needs most, not how the game is going.  Of course we'll still try to win, and one of the other guys will be ready for long relief just in case, but I think it's mostly about trying to get Harden ready to start in the playoffs.

"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Sep 16, 2006 5:39 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's how I see it, mdl--
I expect he'll go 3-4 innings (50-60 pitches) by way of "rehabbing at the big league level," and that how he feels after will determine whether he gets ready for a possible post-season gig.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 5:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well...
He did throw ~60 pitches today in the simulated game so he should be cleared to throw 75-80 pitches on thursday.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Sep 16, 2006 6:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

60 pitches in a simulated game
usually means 30-40 in a "real" game.  At best, I would think they'd let him throw 50-60; but it would shock me if they actually increased his work load over the simulated game.

by IndianaAsfan on Sep 16, 2006 7:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Absolutely expect
Jason Windsor will get stretched out as though Thursday was his start.
Free Clarett Now!

by tresselfan on Sep 16, 2006 6:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, he's the back up plan
or the guy to go for 3-4 innings if Harden only goes that long too
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.

by TexasAsfan on Sep 16, 2006 6:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no upside to starting rich
i disagree with the move. maybe if the a's had already clinched a playoff spot...then maybe you start him thursday. the a's are trying to tell us that after around 90-100 pitches thrown at 90-100% effort harden is now ready to pitch in a play-off run? and after witnessing zito, yet again, stinking the place up i think the a's need to have a long term big picture view on harden's health. because thank god zito won't be around next year to break my heart when the a's need their top pitcher to come up big.

damn zito is infuriating.    

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Sept 13th: GMS:61,AVG:.282,OBP:.366,SLG:.429, doubles:11, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Sep 16, 2006 7:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm with you, bigelephant,
but luckily there's a chance the "wrong move" (in some of our opinion) will pay off by way of Harden making significant contributions in 2006 and 2007. Let's hope.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 7:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No upside???
One of the best pitchers in baseball pitching in the playoffs when much of our starting staff is struggling?

by mikeA on Sep 16, 2006 7:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so,
you're expecting a guy who has been out for over 2 months, who has thrown maybe 90-100 pitches at around 90% to be the savior of the a's "struggling starting staff", in sept, in a pennant race?

things must be worse then i thought!

how about zito stepping up and carrying this "struggling starting staff". hell, right now i'd start haren, lozo and fat joe before zito in  the playoffs.  

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Sept 13th: GMS:61,AVG:.282,OBP:.366,SLG:.429, doubles:11, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Sep 16, 2006 7:29 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree completely about Zito-
I will be quite upset if he starts two games in the division series.  But isn't that an argument in favor of starting Harden?  It would be great if Zito steps up, but it is unlikely that he will.  The A's prospects go way up if Harden can pitch at 90%.

by mikeA on Sep 16, 2006 7:39 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Face it, A's need an additional KICK.
Given their playoff history this millenium, they need a leg up.  Some additional bit so we don't bitch all the off season about not making it.

A's swept and injured NY team, but also got swept by the Diamondbacks.

A few starts will tell us if there is even a chance he's able to be on the post season roster.

by MobiusKlein on Sep 16, 2006 10:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

such a beautiful day
It seems to me a big play in the game today was when Iguchi hit it off Chop's glove and it rolled into the A's bullpen, under the chairs down there.  Swish didn't rummage around for it at all, making sure he got the ground rule double and keeping that run at 3rd instead of scoring, which it would have if Swish attempts to make any kind of play on that ball other than throwing up his hands.  Then Dye was IBB'd and Thome flied out to left on the 1st pitch, making the dunker hit by "the last Alomar standing" the only damager of the inning.

What a day, what a day.  I am just L-O-V-I-N-G the taut play, the beautiful, beautiful 4-pitch at-bat by Bradley to load 'em for Frank's go-ahead walk, how important was that?  You can tell from watching Bradley score on Payton's crucial knock that he is as happy as he's ever been in his life playing this game for this team, it's perfect for him and he is right in the middle of everything, it seems.  In the postseason he is a player that could make other teams cry, a critical presence if we are to make a run at the coveted finger-jewelry in October.

The national Fox announcers were drooling over our bullpen, just writhing around on the floor of the booth in salutation to Kennedy, Duke and Street as those guys shut the door.  They were just on their knees to the Big Hurt, just prosaically worshipping him as well they should.  I don't think it's an exaggeration, given that he has, what?  The 2nd or 3rd highest OBP in MLB history already?  No exaggeration to say that this man is possibly the greatest right-handed hitter ever to play this game.  Ozzie said in the press-fest leading up to this series that Frank's the best he's ever seen from the right side, and I am getting more and more inclined to agree with each passing day.  He is gonna hit 40 HR  **FORTY HOME RUNS** and drive in what?  110?  120?  If MVP means that without your team just sinks like a stone then FT is a slam-dunk to win not just the Comeback award but the MVP.  I know a whole lot has to fall into place for us to go the distance to November 1st, but it makes me feel a lot better about our chances knowing there's a big chunk of rebar in the on-deck circle, waiting to turn opposing pitchers' legs to pea soup.

To be able to play this well against such a stacked team who themselves are in a fight to the death for the chance to defend their crown, well, there are no words.  To be able to come back and steal this one with plate discipline worthy of the gods with Contreras looming tomorrow, the magnificence cannot be overstated.  The Halos are currently down so it seems a good possibility that we can whittle that Magic Digit down to 9.  If we can get it down to 6 or below by next Friday we have a chance to dance by the end of next weekend, and we can be there to see it unfold.  To win the division against the Sciosciapaths after the last 2 years of heartbreak, my skin tingles just thinking about it.

Truly a glory day to be a fan of this most excellent and focused team, which it seems to me has the best shot since 1988-91 to bring home the prize and make confetti fall onto Broadway downtown.

1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Sep 16, 2006 6:00 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

PS
I am a little worried about starting Harden Thursday night, if only because a re-injury could demoralize the team going into the weekend against the Halos.  But I guess if he's OK and ready to go, let's do it.

If he really is OK and his elbow can stand the change-up, then it's ON for October.

1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Sep 16, 2006 6:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks For the Magic Number!!!
I'm Back!!!

Now that teh Magic Number is UP the RPP is free to flow!!!

Like I said on Thursday, The Sox would come in and get WRUNG OUT!!!!

The Big Hurt stuck his size 36 rebar so far into Ozzie that Ozzie will need to see a proctologist tonight!!!

4 RBI for the Big Man who is NOW 8 HR's away from catching the Iron Horse, Lou Gehrig...

Let's Go Oakland!!!

I only have a second so I'll say, I'll SEE YOU IN LF TOMORROW!!!!! -RPP

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint on Sep 16, 2006 6:08 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Evidently,
saint bought exclamation points in bulk last time he went to the punctuation store.

Go A's!

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Sep 16, 2006 6:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

big ups to saint
he was on nat'l TV a couple of times during the telecast!
1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Sep 16, 2006 6:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Being at the Game
was bliss. To all you NRAF's and those who just couldn't be there today, I wish I could describe the special feeling in the Coliseum but I know I'll come up short.
When Frank came to bat with the bases loaded, everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY in that stadium was standing and screaming and believing that something wonderful would happen. It was "just" a walk, but it was a special, tingly moment.

Other things: When Ellis got his key double after that fabulous at bat, he gave himself a solid fist pump. For Ellis that was the equivalent of other players doing backflips. Then when Ellis was on third and the game was delayed so that Ozzie could haul out yet another pitcher, Bradley ran over from second to give Elly a big slap on the rear.

And finally, is there a single city in North America that has better baseball weather for day games than Oakland? Is there!? The sun is brighter, the sky is bluer and the air is much much more sparkly!

I LOVE THIS TEAM!!!

"Their team is full of a bunch of shitty nobodies pieced together from the moneyball scrap yard." -- Halos Heaven 7/31/06

by SportySpice on Sep 16, 2006 6:12 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I second that emotion
and how about the kid selling ben and jerry's ice cream who would start leading "Let's go Oakland" chants when everybody was quiet, earlier in the game when the team was behind? If I ever want one of those overpriced bars I'll be sure to buy it from him!

by OaklandSi on Sep 16, 2006 6:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The energy during Frank's AB
was better than anything this year with the possible exception of Street's K of Bonds.  It was a wonderful day!

by mikeA on Sep 16, 2006 7:29 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My only regret to the Harden news
Is that I have tickets to the Friday, Saturday, and Sunday games.

by RenoTy on Sep 16, 2006 6:26 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Friday
you'll probably get to see Zito's last home Oakland game in the green and gold. I'd take that over Harden's comeback any time.
Live forever or die trying.

by oaklandpete on Sep 16, 2006 6:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is that the date?
Well kiss my grits, that is better. Every summer I go up to see the A's I somehow manage to see Zito pitch, and everytime it's been electric.

by RenoTy on Sep 16, 2006 8:06 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That poll to the right...
at first I thought it read "Are you starting to get worried about the playoffs"

Answer: YES!

I've got one set of Johan Santana nightmares, and one set of Kenny Rogers nightmares...

"A base hit would have been better, but the ground ball was just as good", Ray Fosse

by Alien on Sep 16, 2006 6:33 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the reason Zito is having
control problems now is that his fastball is topping out at 85 and he knows if he gets it around the plate he will get mashed.  He is trying to be very fine because he knows he is not going to get anyone out with his fastball.
Harden starting on Thursday is great because every pitcher will get an extra days rest and that is a good thing this late in the season.
If Harden can go 4 innings then the bullpen can pick it up from there, god knows there are enough guys in the pen now.

by china bob on Sep 16, 2006 6:54 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I gotta hand it to Macha:
Letting Zito pitch that last inning was the right thing to do. Zito came into the 7th with over 100 pitches, but it was clear he was pitching better than the start of the game.

In complete opposition to Ozzie who took Vazquez after the 6th when he had - what - 89 pitches and was (except for Thomas) dominating today. To let 3 relievers lose your game when your starter was killing and not even to 90 pitches was folly.

So Zito hangs in there and gets the win despite not having good stuff. That is the sign of a good pitcher; how he keeps the team in the game when he isn't dominating. I'm really glad Macha kept Zito in for the 7th and he got the W. Ozzie keeps Vazquez in for the 7th and I don't think we get 4 runs.

Also a good game for Ellis. Not just his 1st pitch RBI single off MacDougal, but even more so for his 9-pitch battle ending in a hit to get on base before Thomas' homer. Ignore the batting average and Ellis is all right.

Man, what a fun game to catch on the radio. If the Angels lose tonight than that does it.... 2006 is ours.

Live forever or die trying.

by oaklandpete on Sep 16, 2006 6:55 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Magic Number
is going to be down to 9 by the end of the night
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.

by TexasAsfan on Sep 16, 2006 7:03 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

About Harden
I just don't get how fans in their living room--Nico, BBgirl (both two of the people I respect the most here)--say something like, "Shut him down," or "I have mixed feelings."

We don't know anything about Harden's injury.

But what we do know is that the team will reach the playoffs. What we do know is that that may not happen the next few years. What we do know is that winning is better than losing. What we do know is that Harden is a great pitcher.

We should be unabashedly giddy about this news. This is great, great news. I don't know how it will turn out, but my only reservation is that it might cast a pall over things for a couple of days if it doesn't work out. But of course that's a risk worth taking.

by RLangford on Sep 16, 2006 7:12 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'm just not getting the point?
starting harden really makes no sense. the a's are doing fine without him. what type of contribution do the a's think he'ii make this year? can't be much really.

it seems like the a's are rushing him back. and gee, it's not like the a's have an awe-inspiring track record of managing injuries this year.

if the a's are really going to let zito walk next year (and let's all hope they do) harden will need to play a huge role. so bottom line, what's more important; harden's health now, or harden's health in '07?  

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Sept 13th: GMS:61,AVG:.282,OBP:.366,SLG:.429, doubles:11, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Sep 16, 2006 7:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if he's so injury prone
what will be so different about next year that he won't be as much of an injury risk as he is now?

and to answer your question, this year is far more important than next year, based on the fact that it's mid-september and we're up by 6 games.  
next year we lose zito and possibly frank thomas.  next year all the youngsters on the angels are a little better, and they probably spend a large amount of money on another hitter.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 7:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i didn't say he's injury prone
you did.

i'm talking about the risk of starting harden now and whether it's worth it.

i say no.

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Sept 13th: GMS:61,AVG:.282,OBP:.366,SLG:.429, doubles:11, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Sep 16, 2006 7:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Starting Harden makes a lot of sense to me.
You're wondering what kind of impact he will have, and i say look at his last start, the one vs. the Twins. He came in and pitched very well (granted only 4 innings) but that's not all. Before news broke out that he was headed back to the shelf, every player was talking about what a huge boost it was to hte morale of the club to have him back. You can probably triple that feeling this time of year. I don't feel too comfortable having Blanton starting games in October, but i feel a helluva lot more confident starting Harden twice per series.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Sep 16, 2006 7:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

exactly
harden makes us a world series contender.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 7:24 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'd agree
IF he was healthy and @ 100%-which he clearly can't be.
"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Sept 13th: GMS:61,AVG:.282,OBP:.366,SLG:.429, doubles:11, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Sep 16, 2006 7:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Healthy and 80% makes us contenders
Harden is that good.

Pitch him.  He'll either need Tommy John or he won't  this year or next won't make any difference.  The ligament is shot or not.

by The Hypocrite on Sep 16, 2006 9:11 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well,
i can understand the shortsighted view on harden starting...i disagree with it but i understand it. but why some want to find out if harden can make 3 starts before the end of the season or blow his elbow out is beyond me though. harden is a 24 year old kid who played the OF in college and has been pitching for about 36-40 months of his life. one of the reasons for harden's HX of injuries is his inconsistency with his delivery (along with a freak shoulder separation while turning off his alarm clock). harden is hardly "a pitcher", he's "a thrower"-therefore a perfect canditate for over-throwing when jacked up in big games. this thursday start is a recipe for disaster...not for this year but for next. so then, instead of harden anchoring your staff, you probably have haren or lozo as your main guy(s) with jason windsor. Ummm, no thanks.
"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Sept 13th: GMS:61,AVG:.282,OBP:.366,SLG:.429, doubles:11, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Sep 16, 2006 9:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the issue isn't whether he'd be pitching
at 80% -- it's whether he would further injure himself and possibly risk his future as a pitcher.

by OaklandSi on Sep 16, 2006 10:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And what's "pitching at 80%" anyway?
Throwing the ball 48 feet?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 10:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A risk worth taking?
I don't understand how you think it's a risk worth taking.  If you concede it is a risk, you're talking about risking the guy expected to lead the rotation next year and beyond.  You don't take a risk with a talent like that.  Ask the Cubs.  Do you think they might treat Kerry Woods differently if they had a chance to do it over again?
If Harden's 100% healthy, then fine, start him because there is no risk.  I don't want to speak for Nico or bballgirl (they do a much better job of that themselves), but what I think concerns people is that a setback now jeopardizes next season, and with Harden's history of injury, it may be the prudent thing, long term, to rest him, in my opinion.  It's just an opinion.

by IndianaAsfan on Sep 16, 2006 7:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it will always be a risk
right now or next spring.  but the games the a's play this season (in september until they clinch, and then in the playoffs) are far more important than a bunch of fairly meaningless games next april and may.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 7:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's just the point
The importance of the games right now could be coloring the A's thinking, and that's what worries people.  Yes there's always a risk with pitchers, but that risk is elevated considerably when throwing with a damaged ligament.  Next spring, that elbow ligament will have had almost a year to heal, which just happens to coincide with the "normal" amount of time a partially torn ligament needs.
By the way, the A's have put themselves in this position without a contribution from Harden.  There's no reason to jump to the conclusion that they need him to make the playoffs (right now they don't) or to make the World Series.  The offensive performance will determine that.  The A's appearance NEXT year, though, will most likely need a large contribution from Harden.  That's what I worry about risking with bringing him back right now, when this year's pitching has put the A's in this position w/o Harden.

by IndianaAsfan on Sep 17, 2006 6:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We're in a position right now that doesn't happen
every season.  We have a legit shot a not only making the playoffs, but doing something when we get there.

Having Harden starting in the postseason takes this A's team to a different level.  Harden will make this team great, and that's most certainly a risk worth taking.  When you're this close to something really special, you have to be willing to pull out all the stops.  

Also - I think it's prudent for Beane and Co. to evaluate Rich this season/postseason to see how he may fare as our #1 guy next year.  How he does in 2006 may be quite important in how Beane builds the team for 2007.

by sienna on Sep 16, 2006 7:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This debate actually warrants
the most irritating and lame of sports cliches:
"Play to win, not to not lose."  
  1.  Do we have any reason to believe that pitching Harden is an appreciably larger injury risk than pitching him next year?  Or ever again?
  2.  We are going to make the playoffs, and have a chance at the winning the world series.  Harden greatly increases that chance.  The team might not compete much at all next year.  The time is now.

by mikeA on Sep 16, 2006 7:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My answer to your question #1
is "Yes". That's how injuries are. Every ligament, hamstring, etc. injury I've had has been like that. The difference between resting "how long you're supposed to," and resting another month or six, is huge in terms of the chance of reinjury.

I think it really comes down to this: Let's say pitching Harden increases our chance of winning the World Series by 10% and increases our chance of Harden being injured (meaning independent of the odds of him being injured if he waits until March) by 10%.

Is it worth it? Some would say "yes"--go for it. I would say "no". But I want to be contenders, with World Series hopes, every year more than I want to win the World Series this year. Personally, I wouldn't trade one for the other. And personally, I think the injury risk DOES go up, however little or much, if Harden comes back now rather than healing for another few months.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 7:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As far as your hypothetical
I would probably take the 10% increase in our likelihood of winning the world series over the 10% increased injury risk, but it is a close call.  Contending in August/September is the foremost goal for a baseball fan, and '99-'06 has been an absolutely wonderful time to be an A's fan despite the post-season disappointments.  I would not for a second consider trading the experience for being a D'Backs or Marlins fan over the same period.

However, I think that in this case reasoning in the face of uncertainty leads to the conclusion that the risk/reward calculus of bringing back Harden is solidly on the good side.  

You yourself have said many times that Zito is not an ace, and he is struggling mightily.  He has been barely an acceptable #4 for a solid month.  Haren is likewise not an ace.  I have never thought that this team had more than a very outside shot at success in the playoffs without Harden, and the non-Harden rotation is as shaky as ever.  

Essentially, I think it is quite likely that Harden will increase our chances of succeeding in the playoffs.  If he actually participates in the playoffs, he will very likely help the team.  The increased risk of injury, while of course potentially being a greater cost, is highly speculative, and cannot measure up to the likelihood of considerable value that he could provide us with this year.

A final point:  As to your personal experience with injuries, perhaps you should try some more conventional (even vanilla) pursuits in your recreational time to avoid reinjury. (;

by mikeA on Sep 16, 2006 9:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sheesh, you pull one hamstring
mounting one goat one time and you never live it down.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 9:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

RLangford, I don't claim to know,
from a medical point of view, whether there's any risk, no risk, much risk, etc., letting Harden pitch. I have no clue. So my opinion is based purely on speculation and reason, and no knowledge--I fully realize and acknowledge it. For that I have to trust the A's medical staff. Which I don't.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 7:53 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I also feel this way about Harden.
The World Series is six weeks away.  He's pain-free, otherwise fit, and 24.  If he feels good, and the medical indications are positive, he should be pitching.
"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Sep 16, 2006 10:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

First of all...thanks ;)
Second of all, I am crazy excited; butterflies-in-my-stomach excited about the possibility of Thursday, and I'm writing that day, so I'm just over the moon about the news.

But Harden has proven over and over to be breakable, and we really need him...not to be.

Believe me, I want NOTHING more than to have him for the playoffs. That could be the difference between early and late October. BUT...if you watched Liriano go down the other day, it was like a nightmare...because we're not so far away from that. And until I see Rich throwing, and then throwing again, and again, I'm tempering my wild, giddy excitement. If only not to anger the baseball gods. ;)

"Why won't everyone do what I want???" ~SportySpice

by baseballgirl on Sep 16, 2006 10:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

6 up is one hell of a alot more...
THAN 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To be exact, it is 50% more!

by baseballbill on Sep 16, 2006 7:44 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Stick a fork in' em!
And change that magic number to NINE. Rangers 12 Angels 6. Let's do a little dance in front of the Angels next weekend, eh?

by groversson on Sep 16, 2006 8:02 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Start Harden.....everything in life is a risk.....
including doing nothing which is often the biggest risk of all. Why not give him a couple of starts before the season is over to find out now about his ability to play again. If he is ready to pitch more innnings, great. Then he is ready to be a factor in the playoffs. If not, so be it, Let him go back to a long ten year rehab assignment. If the team and Harden think he is ready now, it is kind of pathetic for the AN to be such handwringers about it. We should be excited about the possible upside to it.
Enough said.

by Vegas Ace on Sep 16, 2006 8:10 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

vegas ace says
roll the dice!
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 8:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

<Flies to Vegas>
<bets on Harden.> <Worries about losing.> <Buys BART ticket in the hopes of landing a Golden Ticet.>

by mikeA on Sep 16, 2006 9:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think "it's pathetic
for AN to be such handwringers," any more than it's pathetic to want everyone to feel the same way. Both sides' views have merit.

Plus, oft forgotten in the debate is that many of the "shut Harden down" sayers (myself included) feel it's ok to let him pitch if he can start come October 1st, but that it's not worth the risk if he's only coming out of the bullpen--which is plenty strong without him.

At the moment, he's being prepped to start, which means that to a large degree you are "preaching to the choir".

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 8:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You can never be rich enough, thin enough,
or have enough solid BP pitching.

Jay Wistaic or Rich Harden?

by MobiusKlein on Sep 16, 2006 11:04 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is anyone else experiencing the MN count...
...stuck at 10 when they refresh (or intially pull up) the homepage?  Can someone report this technical glitch to the webmaster?
4 8 15 16 23 42

by LowcountryJoe on Sep 16, 2006 8:21 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So....let me be sure that I have this right.
We are now 6 games up on the Buena Park Angels of El Segundo, our magic number to clinch is 9, and there are 15 games left to play?  Damn, but that's some fine math.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Sep 16, 2006 8:37 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Best of all,
Scioscia is only prepared to pitch K-Rod in 13 of them!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 8:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

one more thing
we're up 6 games, but it's 7 in the loss column.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 8:59 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

AAAACCKKKK!!!
But then it's only 5 in the win column!!!

<panics, runs franically around room, trips Poochini, crashes into Harden, breaks Harden>

Oops.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 9:43 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So that is where Harden has been hiding
They've played 2 more games than us so far, so if we win those 2 extra games the lead goes up to 7 instead of 6
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.

by TexasAsfan on Sep 17, 2006 5:47 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the magic number is 9 for us
In other news, the New York Mets could very well clinch their division tomorrow.

by hehelaughy on Sep 16, 2006 8:51 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's been the case for the last two days
but the mets keep losing and the phillies keep winning.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 8:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I love you Kendall
that catch was AMAZING!!! I love you Frank Thomas you never cease to amaze me! I love you chavvy a.k.a. double play machine. Im gunna miss you Zito...

by iloveoakland on Sep 16, 2006 9:01 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe it's just me
But I don't like seeing the name Rich Harden and the word "breaking" together, even if it's just breaking news.

by gawker on Sep 16, 2006 9:32 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re:
YAY YAYA RICH IS COMING BACK THAT MAKES ME SO HAPPY!!! :D :D :D :D

Dear Rich,

If anything happens to you in your Thursday start, I will fly into a murderous rage.

Love,
cirque girl

it is the blood shooting through the veins that tangle through New York like sinew taking the bones of the city back home. -Chavinator, 2006

by Squeaky on Sep 16, 2006 9:46 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you're talking about
threatening to murder Ken Macha, it's been done lately, well, to death.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 9:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The proper phrase is "figurative rage"
"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Sep 16, 2006 10:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or, if you're cut off while on a horse,
"rode rage".
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 10:15 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or if your anger gives Macha more fire
a rage match.
"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Sep 16, 2006 10:17 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

Blame of the Game: John Lackey

That's pretty condensending.

Silly Angels bloggers.

It's It. What is it? aim: encryptthisthat

by Hit4TheCycle on Sep 16, 2006 10:19 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's time for TAPS
Total Angel Postseason Silence.
"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Sep 16, 2006 10:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kendall's play today was second to
Matthews play for the Rangers.  It's a little tough to hate on Matthews right now as his efforts worked on our behalf....but damn, can't an Oakland catcher catch a little love on bbtn?  I have a feeling I am going to learn to hate Mr. Matthews in the upcoming years.  Maybe more so than Mr. Tori Hunter, aka the Minnesota thief.  I wonder if you would draw serious prison time if you set up as a sniper on our defunct third deck.  Not that I'm advocating harming either of those two....I'm just suggesting peppering the ground around their feet when they start thinking of plying their mischievious talents against our guys.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Sep 16, 2006 10:32 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gary Matthews is 32 years old
and coming into this season had a career OPS+ of 90 in over 2,100 major-league ABs.  Now, it's possible that he's going to transform himself from John Shelby (his highest player comp, incidentally) into Carlos Beltran at the age of 32.  But I think it's a lot more likely that this is a fluke season that he'll never come close to repeating.

Anyone who gives Matthews a big contract this off-season is going to regret it a whole lot.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Sep 17, 2006 7:27 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I saw your diary
it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the game, but with the activity held afterwards.

by OaklandSi on Sep 16, 2006 10:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, yeah...
point taken. Still cool though.

by Jonny Oklnd on Sep 16, 2006 10:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's pretty harsh and uncalled for
i'm not religious and i have not looked at the diary myself because i have no interest in it, but did you really need to respond with this?  
i'm sure he realizes his diary is about an activity held after the game and not about the game itself.  

there are plenty of diaries that don't have anything to do with the game.
what about those keep the a's in oakland rallies, don't those have nothing to do with the game, but with activities held beforehand?  

this is a's related enough to be a legit diary.  that doesn't mean you or i have to read it, but if the guy wants to mention his diary, he can.  

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 10:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Where is the harshness?
I didn't criticize the activity nor the fact that a non-baseball related diary appears. I also didn't criticize that he mentioned his diary in this thread. However, I did note that the mention in this thread was of a game-related diary, and I felt that was misleading -- and he acknowledged it as such.

Seems like you didn't even read what I said, nor his response.

by OaklandSi on Sep 16, 2006 11:03 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

<points to front page!!!>
OUR MAGIC NUMBER IS NINE!!!!!
"Why won't everyone do what I want???" ~SportySpice

by baseballgirl on Sep 16, 2006 11:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i think you were being hostile
even if you were not, you're still wrong:

"it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the game, but with the activity held afterwards."

wow, look at that photo from a link in the diary!  
amazing, it's FROM THE GAME, not from afterwards!

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 11:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

there are others as well
in fact, it could have even been called "Game Photo*S* (And Video) Diary"...
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 11:14 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just an observation
but I thought it was funny that you went and read a diary that you professed to have no interest in because someone made a comment that you thought was inappropriate about it.  

Guess it is true what they say, there is no such thing as bad press.  :-)

by AsFanInLA on Sep 16, 2006 11:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

haha
totally true.  

my confidence that a certain person was probably full of [deleted] in this case was so high that i was forced to look at the diary and find the evidence i needed.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 11:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now that's xbharsh!
Like the Swingin' A's...except that Reggie is batting RH!!! -- saint

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 16, 2006 11:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Where is the harshness?
Seems like you didn't even read what I said.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 11:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not that I have any interest
but if you write a diary about what you said, I will read it.

by AsFanInLA on Sep 16, 2006 11:39 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Haha
Sooo much controversy! I just hoped you guys would be able to enjoy the photos of the players and stuff that puts them out of the normal setting (kinda) It's cool if you wanna check it out, or if ya don't.

by Jonny Oklnd on Sep 17, 2006 2:03 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

how sweet
you don't even know me and you have that attitude about me? Apparently what I wrote mattered less than that it was me who wrote it.

by OaklandSi on Sep 17, 2006 8:12 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

actually
i said "in this case" not generally.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 17, 2006 2:52 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That photo was not in the diary
when I looked at it. Only the brief video about the activity. The link to photos of the day, including the game, did not appear in the diary last night, although I see it this morning. Had it been there last night, I wouldn't have written my post. And you might (or might not) have read the poster's response to my post acknowledging what I had written.

There was no hostility in my post...but there was plenty in your response.

by OaklandSi on Sep 17, 2006 7:59 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so you're saying
those photos magically appeared between 10:41pm and 11:00pm or so?  
suuurrre...
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 17, 2006 2:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

okay, whatever
nothing can be proved either way, but i think it's more likely that the photos were there from the beginning than that they happened to be added in a 25 minute period after your comment.

evidence to support this: the reference to "Game Photo" in the original comment.  
why the reference to photos AND video if there was only video?  
your response is quibbling over whether the diary has "anything to do with the game" rather than pointing out that there are NO PHOTOS in the diary.
if you are so concerned about "misleading" comments, you might have mentioned it...

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 17, 2006 7:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

one more time, then
the diary's title specifically referred to the after-game activity.

in the diary itself there was mention of game material. However, when I clicked on the diary there was no link to any game-related photos, just the video of the activity (which I watched, by the way).

Later, the poster made a pitch for the diary but referred to it as a diary about the game. I returned to the diary but saw nothing new since I had last clicked on it.

Although I don't think non-baseball related diaries are particularly appropriate on AN I've never made a big deal about it, and hadn't planned to here either. But I did think that the reference in the main thread to a "game diary" was a bit misleading, and pointed that out -- which by the way, the poster acknowledged. Perhaps he (or she) put the link to the game photos later. Perhaps the link simply didn't appear on my computer til this morning. (Computers and the internet are funny that way sometimes.)

There was no call for you to go off like you did.

by OaklandSi on Sep 17, 2006 8:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who else is so excited they can't even sleep?!
"Why won't everyone do what I want???" ~SportySpice

by baseballgirl on Sep 16, 2006 10:41 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

back from wedding dinner
ate too much....but having a much satisfying read of threads while i gently spoon some cherry garcia in smug food hedonism.
the great playoff miss of 2004 followed by the good try of 2005...and 2006...is getting down to it!

by ak_A on Sep 16, 2006 11:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh man,
Cherry Garcia...

::drool::

GO OAKLAND!

"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith

by Boonee on Sep 16, 2006 11:04 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just to add my 2 cents
I just think that the Harden situation is very clear cut.  Either he is healthy enough to pitch or he isn't.  If not, shut him down.  If so, we could really, really use an ace-type starting pitcher in the postseason -- where the White Sox showed us last year starting pitching is a big key to victory.  

There seem to be two main arguements against him pitching:

1) We don't want to risk him being injured for next season / we don't trust the A's to know if he is healthy.  

To that I would respond that any time he pitches he is at risk.  Also, we have to trust the A's to say if he is 100% or not.  If they say he is, then we owe it to our team this year to see what Harden can do.  I understand the teams track record in this regard is not great, but we just have to take their words for it, as it is their jobs to know.

2) How do we even know that a rusty Harden will be useful as a starter in the postseason?

To that I would say -- that is why we have the tune up starts to end the season.  If he struggles, we probably shut him down and he does not even make the postseason roster.  But if he shines?  Wow, what a difference he could make -- he could literally be the best starting pitcher in the entire postseason not named Santana.  

So again I say, this is a no brainer decision for the A's.  If Harden is healthy (and yes we have to take the medical staff's word for that) then we have to try and see if he can be a starter for us in the postseason.  There is just no other option.

by AsFanInLA on Sep 16, 2006 11:10 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And.....yep.
That's a very fair post.

Just wish we had more confidence in the A's medical staff.

"Why won't everyone do what I want???" ~SportySpice

by baseballgirl on Sep 16, 2006 11:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess that is the big thing
I don't think that anyone would be arguing for sitting Harden down if it was not for the distrust of the medical staff.  But we have to just assume they know what they are doing (evidence to the contrary notwithstanding).  

I am trying not to get too up about this, as he could be too rusty and not be effective.  But, if he can get game ready in time for the playoffs -- he really could be a huge weapon (almost rebar-esque)

by AsFanInLA on Sep 16, 2006 11:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The second question...
...is why I had been leaning toward having Harden wait until next year.  I'm not too comfortable about having him what amounts to another spring training for him while the A's are fighting for a playoff spot down the stretch.

However, now that it's becoming more likely that the A's will secure a postseason bid, then I don't mind the idea of giving him those tuneup starts, if that increases the chances that he'll be at least close to midseason form in October.

Rap Cat!

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Sep 17, 2006 10:20 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Harden
Harden needs to be stretched out and two starts before the end of the year will do it.  We'll be golden at that point.  Marco Scutaro is without a doubt a quality big league player (although baseball girl retardley says otherwise) and we will win the pennant!!  GO A's!!!  

by jdub69 on Sep 16, 2006 11:32 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think your point could have been made
without the snide remark in parenthesis.  And if you want to throw BBG under the bus for thinking Scutaro is really just a very good bench player, but not an everyday starter, then you may as well throw about 90% of AN there with her because most of us feel the same way.

Boy, some people just have to find a way to be negative, even after a great day for A's baseball like today was.  Geez.

by AsFanInLA on Sep 16, 2006 11:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow
is retardley even a word?

dude, scoot is certainly NOT a quality big league player.  
am i happy he's on the a's?  yes.  but he should not be starting for a major league team.  and there are plenty of major league starters who are not "quality" by any stretch of the imagination.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Sep 16, 2006 11:42 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Scut Rules!!
You all suck for hating Scutaro.  If 90% of AN Nation believes that Scut's is not a quality starter then that's just plain sad. I thank god everyday that he is in there playing qualty shortstop for us every day in the absence of Crosby. Not hater here - just thankful. Go A's!  

by jdub69 on Sep 16, 2006 11:57 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks!!!
I hate Scutaro, so... THERE!!!!
"When the A's suck, the terrorists win" ~ Poppy

by eamb on Sep 17, 2006 8:50 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

90% of AN?
Was there a poll on Scutaro?

Can you get 90% of AN to agree on anything other than they are A's fans?

by OaklandSi on Sep 17, 2006 8:55 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It starts now
Frank Thomas waited for a good pitch in his 2nd AB and didn't miss it. Zito of course was not good in another day game but that is expected against a team that takes there balls and strikes. As for Harden, I think they are trying to give him a 60 pitch limit against a good offensive team.
"Talk about impressive. My point is this: Break's over."- Josiah Bartlet

by doublehustle22 on Sep 17, 2006 12:54 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

gee
you said a whole lotta nothing...

by jdub69 on Sep 17, 2006 1:07 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kind of Scut's arm strength.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith

by Boonee on Sep 17, 2006 1:11 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My thoughts for Saturday
I had plans the 2nd half of the day, but taped the game and just finished watching it, not knowing the end result in advance.
For those of you still awake at this very wee-morning hour, here is what I think:
  1.  First off, the Fox "we-are-White-Sox-fans" announcers should never call another game with the A's playing again.  Pathetically annoying.  I would much rather prefer Jon Miller sacrificing his Giants duties, calling our Nat'l TV games over these homers, since Jon would likely homer us (over anyone except the Giants).
  2.  Nick Swisher in left field, fighting that lower-declination sun of September, concerns me.  
He should be at 1st as often as possible throughout the end of the season.  We recall what happened after that ball went over his head.  
  1.  The lack of RISP hits will not, should not, can not continue throughout the playoffs, if we make it there.  the only way we will hurt ourselves is sudden mental errors.  Learn from Jeremy, Eric and Miggy, boys.  Just ask Chavy and Barry how much those guys let the A's down in the playoffs.
  2.  Cardinals and Rangers, you guys are awesome!  
Thank you Cards, for reminding the Giants that they suck too much to make the playoffs.
Rangers, keep up the big swings, and help us clinch this title in time for the Angel series here.

by wolffpackdavid on Sep 17, 2006 1:36 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At the game yesterday
I also was thinking how much I prefer Swish at first and not in the outfield. I was glad Kotsay was available at least as a late-game defensive replacement.

by OaklandSi on Sep 17, 2006 9:17 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also, not just "September"
(or October) sun, possibly sometimes the sun-field of a 5:00pm start, which is intense.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 17, 2006 9:24 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Late afternoons in October
Nearly all playoff games the A's might host after the ALDS would be at the 5:00 eastern TV friendly start times.
Like the Swingin' A's...except that Reggie is batting RH!!! -- saint

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 17, 2006 10:34 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just wanted to
Thank the boys for the past two days. As a twins fan I've always rooted for the A's when they weren't playing the twins and I know you guys will definately make the playoffs.
As for Harden, I really hope he is 100% healthy before they bring him back, and after the Liriano incident I doubt that they would take any chances on Harden if he wasn't 110% ready to go. Good luck to you all in the post season!

by Twinsfan57 on Sep 17, 2006 7:59 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thanks
most of us hope we don't face the Twins in the first round of the playoffs. That's how much your team is respected.

by OaklandSi on Sep 17, 2006 8:57 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Magic # math...
I'm still a bit hazy on how this works. So if we win, and Anaheim loses... is the magic number 8? Excuse my stupidity.
Asked where Zito's perfect fit would be, Hudson said, "Do they have a league on Mars?"
*Magic #: Olmedo Saenz*

by JLaff on Sep 17, 2006 9:52 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It would be 7--
Each A's win reduces the magic number by one, and each Angels loss reduces the magic number by one.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 17, 2006 9:55 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The magic number is...
...the total number of A's wins and Angels losses need to give the West title to the A's.  

So either an A's win or an Angels loss decreases the number by one.  An A's win and the Angels loss decreases the number by two.

Rap Cat!

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Sep 17, 2006 10:27 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Simplest Magic Number Formula
M = 163 - W1 - L2

Where M is the Magic Number, W1 is wins by the 1st place team, and L2 is losses by the second place team.

Like the Swingin' A's...except that Reggie is batting RH!!! -- saint

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Sep 17, 2006 10:36 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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