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Negativity Flowing from the Need to be First

(I admit the title is misleading if you think that by "to be first" I meant in the standings...)

Anyone who visits AN with any kind of frequency knows what I'm talking about - and the symptoms can be found anywhere on the Internet - there is a great desire to make your mark to be the very first to come up with an outlandish, wild suggestion that varies from the mainstream, in the opportunity that you may someday be looked back on as a prophet or a hero.

If I looked at the A's on May 1, put my finger in the air, and said, "Wow, this looks like it'll be a crappy month..." and "Oh yeah, Harden looks like he's going to be hurt for a while", I could probably have put that in my sig file, and would have been revered, if that were an actually valued quality.

So we've seen people jump to be the first to come to conclusions. If the A's fall behind 5-0 to the Tigers in the 1st inning, people post "The game is over." "I'm sick of watching this team." or "Billy Beane couldn't manage a Dairy Queen." But, though those seem like insurmountable odds, we know now that the A's actually won one of those two games in that situation. As people had given up on the game, the A's roared back with 5 of their own and won 9-5. In fact, in the game thread during the inning where the A's were scoring their five runs, people, with 2 outs, were saying "Wow, the A's should have gotten more than 2 in this situation," as if the final out had already occurred and the A's had fallen short.

So while we very publicly see a race to be the first to not only declare the season to be a loss, but that the team needs to be gutted, it's not so much a story of frustration as A's fans, but a sample of the bigger race to be first to say it. While calling for "Fire Macha Now" is now seen as trite, an AN inside joke, the call is now to "Fire Macha and Beane and 20 of the 25 on the roster". That's new. That's different.

We also see that race at the smallest of levels. "Dang, Crosby got a first-pitch strike. He swung through that thing. He's going to K." If I'm the first to say it, I'm a baseball analyst god. If I was wrong, then I say that about the next guy, and so on. I'm bound to be right sometime.

You see posters who are calling for the team's beheading after one bad game, a bad play, bad at bat, or a bad pitch. The idea behind being the first to make an outlandish claim, no matter how foolish, is that in the possibility you are right, people can look back at you and bask in your aura that you were right, and the first to do so. You're a friggin' prophet. And if you're wrong, make the same prediction the following day, and you just might get right the next time. By then, you are a hero who lives on the edge - albeit in the face of reality.

I'm not claiming the A's are going to win it all this year - though I certainly hope so, and will push them onward until they go home with a trophy or are eliminated. As an A's fan, it's my job to root for a great season. But we have to be resolute as fans that we don't live for the need to be first to give up early or to call for ridiculous measures and over-reactions. There will come a time in the next few decades, most likely, that this team could actually suck, not like they do now, but for real... it happens cyclically. And we aren't going to give up on this team, or this site. Surely, we are bigger than that.

So when you see people jumping to conclusions and trying to be first to make an outlandish claim or suggestion, at least you know, these aren't bad people... they just have a need for attention and this is their cry for help.

0 recs | Comment 47 comments

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Sheesh, oaktoon
You really need to start posting some of your uber-happy stuff again. It looks like everyone is out to get you!
Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Jul 25, 2006 8:05 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They've lost all credibility...
It's like the instructions on a bottle of shampoo:

Wash, rinse, repeat...

Predict, project, revise, repeat...ad nauseum.

"the reason why hitting the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat feels so good is that the ball is contacting at the bat at a vibrational node." - salb918

by McFood on Jul 25, 2006 8:17 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but Gee, Your Hair Smells Terrific!
"I meant to make cookies today (real, edible, yummy, non-innuendo cookies)" ~ JLaff

by Poppy on Jul 25, 2006 8:25 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thank you
I agree. I really wish this bickering and negativity would stop. :( AN isn't always as fun anymore.

by Squeaky on Jul 25, 2006 8:27 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, but the DLD is always fun!
Can intangibles exist? Only the ones you can touch.

by salb918 on Jul 25, 2006 8:55 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But we need a new one.
Fresh.  Pretty.
"I meant to make cookies today (real, edible, yummy, non-innuendo cookies)" ~ JLaff

by Poppy on Jul 25, 2006 8:58 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's why I like to stay there
I have to pick my diary hangouts carefully.

by Squeaky on Jul 25, 2006 9:01 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Very well said.
"I'm living in a cuckoo clock!" ~HollywoodOz
"I'm your huckleberry." ~grover

by baseballgirl on Jul 25, 2006 9:16 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thank you.
I was thinking of posting a diary like this when I got back from classes today, but I'm happy to see one that is better than whatever I could write here already.
"The hard... is what makes it great."

by Jjjsixsix on Jul 25, 2006 9:28 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

to be frank ...
... I think this diary is on the verge (snark intended) of being a CGV violation, for what amounts to an ad hominem pseudo-psychologistic attack on the motivations of fellow posters.

Imagine, if you will, that oaktoon had posted a diary that was the inverse of this one: an attack on the motivations and mentalités of all the people who have a positive attitude about the team, and one that didn't engage any of the substantive arguments put forth by the unnamed posters he was implicitly attacking.

louismg, I do somewhat agree with your sentiments, but I think you're casting a pretty wide net without any specifics.

I'm as sick of the game-thread trolls as anyone else, but your diary to me seems like an attack on grovetoon more than the GTTs.

It wasn't biting viciously. They put their mouth on things to see what they taste like. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 25, 2006 10:01 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My dear sapien...
It's not intended as an attack. The reason it reads wide, and not specific, is to avoid any direct indication that it attacks the Grovetoon mafia.

The need to be first extends beyond sports. It extends to forecasting in politics, technology, and news. You can see it as becoming part of the Web media gets easier and easier, and barriers are removed.

But I feel like I know AN pretty well, and this is a great microcosm.

However, if you think it's a CGV, you know what to do. :-)

by louismg on Jul 25, 2006 10:04 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I did say "verge" :)
Thanks for your respectful response and engagement, louismg.

While I do in fact agree with certain aspects of your assessment, I feel I've said my piece on the remainder and I will certainly take you at your word that you didn't intend an attack.

It wasn't biting viciously. They put their mouth on things to see what they taste like. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 25, 2006 10:15 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As a half-Italian
I don't mind the mafia comparison but I do recall oaktoon having an issue with the term a while back.

Whether or not the attack was direct or not does not matter, I recognized who this diary was primarily directed at. I think its a fair response, but I would have respected you more if you had come directly at me.

Now, I don't think I've suggested anything that is foolish or ridiculous. I'm not seeking attention and I'm certainly not crying for help. I see things a certain way and I can back up why I feel the way I do. If you want to attack my ideas then go ahead, just come at me with something more than Joy-Joy thoughts and Hope.

And if you just want to come after me... :)

I can play that game too.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Jul 25, 2006 10:58 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just for the record...
...for me, it's not you. I thought you wrote a really well-thought-out diary, addressing many concerns about the team. I thought your first diary was great, and this one was good too. I don't agree with all of it; but I sure appreciated your right to say it, and you raised very valid points.

There's a DIFFERENCE with your posting. You know it, and the rest of us know it too. There is a way to be negative, even going as far as saying "I think this team should be blown up in a constructive way" without alienating people who disagree.

Kudos.  

"I'm living in a cuckoo clock!" ~HollywoodOz
"I'm your huckleberry." ~grover

by baseballgirl on Jul 25, 2006 11:05 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't agree with all the stuff I write either
I WANT to be wrong. I just don't think I am.
Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Jul 25, 2006 11:16 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not you.
I liked the comment "Grovetoon" and reused it. :-)

by louismg on Jul 25, 2006 11:10 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Monkeyball is a clever simian
Just be careful when addressing this most unholy alliance. I of all people know how oaktoon can get, but the thing is he's not always wrong.

:)

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Jul 25, 2006 11:18 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That may be, but the truth is...
...it doesn't even matter anymore.

Delivery is everything. You can be 100% right, but if you say it poorly enough, you will not only not prove your point, but also cause those who might have agreed with you initially to take a different road, just to be disassociated from the crazy.  

"I'm living in a cuckoo clock!" ~HollywoodOz
"I'm your huckleberry." ~grover

by baseballgirl on Jul 25, 2006 11:57 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'II tell you what's getting tiring:
A diary about how bad this team is and then another diary to say how bad that diary was and then another diary to say how bad this team is and how bad the bad diary was and another diary to say how bad that diary was and how bad the original diary was and another diary to say how bad all the the other diaries were and how bad this team is and another diary.....

FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I need to write a fuckin' diary.

Holy fuck.....!  

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-The Committee is accepting new memberships (please pay in Yen). "Raking" numbers soon to be posted.

by bigelephant on Jul 25, 2006 10:22 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you and Jennifer both!
It wasn't biting viciously. They put their mouth on things to see what they taste like. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 25, 2006 10:33 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

<buys URL>
http://www.athleticsnationnation.com
It wasn't biting viciously. They put their mouth on things to see what they taste like. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 25, 2006 10:34 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

{passes the cuss jar}
There's still time to get the NRAF's to AN Day!  ;)
"I meant to make cookies today (real, edible, yummy, non-innuendo cookies)" ~ JLaff

by Poppy on Jul 25, 2006 10:43 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

<revs up Segway>
Mama I'm comin' home!
Can intangibles exist? Only the ones you can touch.

by salb918 on Jul 25, 2006 10:50 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes!!!
Just about everyone here knows the team has a lot of problems.  But do we need to see diary after friggin diary, often by the same few people, saying the same thing?  It's gloomy!

It's funny though.  Grover just posted a diary addressing how he thinks the team is going nowhere. It did not bother in any way and in fact, I found it interesting.  Yet Oaktoon can post a similar diary and for some reason it gets under my skin.  I think it's becuase Grover has been more even-keeled the entire season and hasn't used repeated sledgehammer blows to try to get his points across.

"VORP? Not a clue what that is. But if it's good, I'll take it!"

-Nick Swisher

by kaweahkaweah on Jul 25, 2006 11:33 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well
My sledgehammer is on the DL.
Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Jul 25, 2006 11:35 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Damned Oblique!
"VORP? Not a clue what that is. But if it's good, I'll take it!"

-Nick Swisher

by kaweahkaweah on Jul 25, 2006 11:45 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good analysis of how people work
Sure, we love the team and we often cover our asses by being doomsday prophets. I was one during the 5-run comeback inning Saturday.

Now, we're seeing it on the large scale. That is: Blow up the team. I think that's an honest assessment by some people, but also just a cry for change brought on by what has been an often depressing season. Oaktoon and grover (who I don't think your post is solely directed at--clearly not) are big time fans, and very smart guys about baseball. But I definitely think that what you're talking about is at play in their response to the team--maybe not to be the first to say it, so much as just to say it, to say something proactive out of the frustration that is this season.

by RLangford on Jul 25, 2006 10:33 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's interesting to me, RLangford,
that you say oaktoon is "smart about baseball". I can't think of anyone who is more consistently wrong about the A's and doesn't learn from past mistakes. Way off last May, way off last July, way off this March, way late in giving up on Crosby as a viable #3 hitter, way off on how good the A's offense was, and so on...It's like trying to guess a number between 1 and 10, watching that the other person always thinks of 5, and guessing "1...10...10...1...10...1...1...10..."

To me, there's a big difference between just being extreme and loud, just being an effective "shock jock" who is good at generating attention and response, and being "smart about baseball".

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2006 1:47 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why do you do this, Nico???
Go out of your way to attack me with no provocation and at any opportunity.

Blez-- I won't report this as a CGV-- but whatever Nico is doing, it's cruel, it's mean, and it should violate any community standards.

Now-- do you want to talk facts??

  1. i supported the Hudson and Mulder trades. I'd say I was a) right to do so and b) right about one of the two in terms of what we got back;
  2. I thought last year's team would be good, not great. I mistakenly believed they would beat out the Angels and win the division. Again, I-- and many others-- get partial credit there;
  3. I got real down on this team last May-- Guilty! Guilty! Guilty! And that feeling essentially has gained me an inaccurate reputation, because....
  4. however wrong I was in May I was dead right in June, July, and through mid-August-- in fact, much more right than anyone on this site when i correctly and, yes repeatedly said they were going to keep winning and winning. The attack on me for this "flip-flop" has always been, IMHO, tinged with envy that those who attacked didn't have the foresight or the cojones to see the transformation.
And then we got a bunch of crippling injuries-- well two to be precise.
  1. before this season, I-- and many others, including a lot of so-called "experts" who are paid to give baseball commentary-- thought this was now a very good team-- a legitimate WS contender-- and I opined that they would win over 95 games and had a decent shot to win 100.
  2. When the rash of injuries hit in April and May I and anyone that was sane downgraded our expectations. i think the consensus of most of us was that while they weren't gonna go out and win 100 games they could still win the division, particularly given the Angels slow start, and if reasonably healthy would have a decent shot at advancing in the postseason. When the 10 game winning streak occurred needless to say I intensified that viewpoint.
And I was wrong. Along with a lot of other people. And hardly what you described-- and you know better.

As to individual players, I was right about Zito this year; i did defend Crosby and he let us all down; I'm in the middle about Swisher.

But I do give opinions-- as opposed to a lot who don't-- I do make predictions. and yes I am fallible.

"I can't think of anyone who has been more consistently wrong and doesn't learn from mistakes" is a bald-faced lie. And I am tired of the personal invective. Last night-- unprovoked, you called me-- veiled as you not so subtly were-- an "idiot" and a "masochist". And now this??

I wonder-- what's the deal with you?

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Jul 25, 2006 11:19 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dead Horse
Beaten to a pulp.

by LD on Jul 26, 2006 12:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Fresh squeezed horse juice!
Get your fresh squeezed horse juice!"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 26, 2006 12:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

loiusmg, I'm pretty sure I said this first.
Can intangibles exist? Only the ones you can touch.

by salb918 on Jul 25, 2006 10:38 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, it was me.
"I'm living in a cuckoo clock!" ~HollywoodOz
"I'm your huckleberry." ~grover

by baseballgirl on Jul 25, 2006 10:50 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hello? Late to the table, party of three?!?!
I was on this like a buzzard on a gutwagon back when wristwatches with red LEDs were all the rage.
"the reason why hitting the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat feels so good is that the ball is contacting at the bat at a vibrational node." - salb918

by McFood on Jul 25, 2006 11:03 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fan fanatic compulsion
AN is a fandom mirror;
  • sometimes pretty
  • sometimes exciting
  • sometimes profound
  • sometimes cheesy
  • sometimes butt
  • sometimes hero worship
  • sometimes stats
  • sometimes dynastic
  • sometimes dumb
  • sometimes mean
  • sometimes encouraging
  • sometimes condemning
  • sometimes dumb
  • sometimes heartfelt
  • sometimes historic
  • sometimes vents
  • sometimes family
  • sometimes strangers
  • sometimes boredom
  • sometimes missing when you want it most
It IS exactly what you bring to share,
and what you bring is not the same as others.

Enjoy it all.

"the top teams always dominate in the late innings"

by Billy Ball 2005 on Jul 25, 2006 10:46 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think
that grovetoon should replace Harold Reynolds on Baseball Tonight, and the A's should trade Zito for Randy Johnson and Bubba Crosby, and that Mychael Urban and Milton Bradley should be married in a beautiful City Hall ceremony by Gavin Newsom.

I am the first one to have said all these important things, and every one of you is thereby required to build a shrine to me in your homes, complete with psychedelic-patterned votive candles and Big League Chew-scented incense.

That is all.

1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Jul 25, 2006 12:04 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I still think this A's season will turn around...
...as soon as you lose the "2006" in your signature line.  :)

But seriously, it might help...maybe???

COME ON, OAKLAND, COME ON!

by Colorado Fan on Jul 25, 2006 2:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

please tell me
you aren't really ascribing the mediocre play of the team to my sig.

Maybe everyone who is constantly ragging on it would like it better if I changed it to 1972...1973...1974...1989...2010 Las Vegas Athletics

This is a fan site, aren't we supposed to dream big dreams for our team?  It's like you get skewered for pessimism and skewered for optimism just the same up here.

1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Jul 25, 2006 3:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yum, emporer kabobs!
Perhaps a question mark.
"I don't want to 'Wear It.' It doesn't match my shoes." --Jennifer

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jul 25, 2006 3:58 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Superstitions
You aren't superstitious even one bit?  This year has gone miserably.  We all need to change something up to change the MOJO.  
  • Sometimes ballplayers go with High Socks to change things up.
  • Sometimes ballplayers 'hit' a slumpbuster, to get out of an 0-fer whatever.
  • emperor nobody should change the 2006...at least give it a try.
COME ON, OAKLAND, COME ON!

by Colorado Fan on Jul 26, 2006 11:33 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

how silly is this becoming?
does every single freaking thing have to be analyzed?  someone can't even say a single negative or positive point now unless they're prepared to face a firing squad from you 'regulars'.

by fadedash on Jul 25, 2006 3:57 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmm...fadedash, on a scale
from 1 to fish, I'd have to give your post somewhere between a "blue.7" and "half a Fresca".
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2006 4:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but i don't know anything about fish
is a blue.7 really a type of fish? interesting terminology

by fadedash on Jul 25, 2006 5:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly as much as Fresca is--
they are among my favorite numbers.

<has pi for dessert>

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 25, 2006 5:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

<has Amaury Pi-Gonz?lez for dinner>
You've got some clever folks, Blez. Mean as hell, but clever. -- Mychael Urban @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 25, 2006 5:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"the need to be first"...
reminds me of a guy I used to know back when I was a regular at Golden Gate Fields racetrack with season box seats.

This guy would invariably "call" the race before it was half-over by declaring a particular horse the winner and, on most occasions, the horse would lose.

Got to be a running joke for those of us that had to endure it.

Double Fudge Brownie

by Ice Cream on Jul 25, 2006 4:46 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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