Chavez Should Walk In Mexican Shoes First
Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen hates American ballplayers of distant Latin descent jockeying for spots in next month's World Baseball Classic, especially the Yankees' Alex Rodriguez.
I hate hypocrites: He's full of shit, said Guillen in Sports Illustrated. The Dominican team doesn't need his ass. It's the same with [Nomar] Garciaparra playing for Mexico. Garciaparra only knows Cancun because he went to visit.
If Rodriguez and Garciaparra's foreign credential are suspect, then what about Oakland's Eric Chavez and his quest to play for Mexico after being left off the United States' 30-man roster Tuesday.
It could be said that Chavez's knowledge of his Mexican heritage consists of knowing the intrinsic differences between a chalupa and a gordita at the local Taco Bell.
Born into a middle-class Southern California upbringing and sheepishly aware of his inability to speak Spanish despite his Latin surname, decisions like Chavez's threaten to undermine the spirit and future of this tournament.
The main idea, despite creating a cash cow, was to merge baseball and patriotism in the same way that the FIFA World Cup energizes the soccer world every four years.
This competition is devoid of any patriotism thus far. Guys like Rodriguez, Garciaparra and Chavez are Americans and should, if given the opportunity, feel obliged to put on that uniform.
What Chavez is doing is akin to a teenager looking for a new high school after being cut from the varsity team. In this case, Chavez is attempting to look for another country and that act is unpatriotic.
If he desires to play for Mexico he should pull up stakes in his cushy East Bay home, learn how to speak Spanish and move to Mexico City. While there, he should walk those streets and witness the poverty and empty eyes of its inhabitants. If he did that, then maybe becoming Mexican for two weeks just to get some quality at-bats in mid-March will seem quite hallow.
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chavez should move out of the east bay
geez, the guy just wants to play some competitive baseball!
by gotgreen on Feb 16, 2006 10:02 PM PST 0 recs
No heart, AND he should be tried for treason!
by Poppy on
Feb 16, 2006 10:09 PM PST
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Damn Right...
by HigherPie on
Feb 17, 2006 12:18 AM PST
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I don't care
by IM4Oakgal on Feb 16, 2006 10:12 PM PST 0 recs
There is no one I deslike in baseball
by OaktownPower on Feb 16, 2006 10:30 PM PST 0 recs
I'm pretty sure Eric Chavez
by Nico on Feb 16, 2006 10:44 PM PST 0 recs
Hold On!
If you're the vice president of the U.S. and you blast someone with birdshot on your free time, then it's our business to know what you did. If you do it, then it's between your you, your family and the authorities.
by wonderbread74 on
Feb 16, 2006 10:50 PM PST
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You're free to judge Chavez,
And I think you have me mixed up with the Jason Kendall character in those commercials for I Can't Believe He's Not Better.
by Nico on
Feb 16, 2006 10:55 PM PST
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Good one
Chavez can't become Mexican for a few weeks because it defeats the whole purpose of the competition. The integrity of the WBC will be completely lost if every player scorned by their country has their DNA tested for the requisite participating country.
Besides, if you use the World Cup model, only third-rate soccer players jump from their logical national teams for an easy spot on another less-talented squad.
Former U.S. national team player, Thomas Dooley, was a servicable German player who couldn't find a spot on the national team, so he used his American father's bloodline to get a spot on the mediocre American World Cup teams of 1994 and 1998.
The point is, Chavez is a first-rate thirdbasemen and should earn his spot on the U.S. squad.
by wonderbread74 on
Feb 16, 2006 11:04 PM PST
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or.
Or.
AndrEw Jones pretending to be Dutch.
Etc. Etc.
by NicksDreamy on
Feb 17, 2006 10:37 AM PST
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Uh
by OaktownTribesman on
Feb 17, 2006 6:19 PM PST
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duh.
It's entirely false to think that AndrEw Jones is Dutch.
But that's the way this thing is run. My point was that there's probably at least one player on each team who coulda/shoulda/woulda played for another nation given the flimsy rules... ragging on Chavy just because he wants to get some at-bats for the Mexican national team is really silly.
by NicksDreamy on
Mar 7, 2006 3:42 PM PST
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Chavez playing for Mexico...
How dare you make a snap judgement on how much or little this guy knows about his heritage? And how dare you tell him to walk a mile in poverty before he can lay claim to his ancestral background? Does he stop being Latino because he lives 200 miles north of the place? Does he stop being Latino because he has money? Or because he doesn't vacation in slum pits?
Who the hell are YOU to tell him what he can and cannot represent? How much of your wages have YOU given to cure Mexican poverty?
Just because he's famous doesn't give you carte blanche to decide whether he's 'Mexican enough' to play for the country. People far more qualified than you will make such decisions, which leaves you looking like nothing more than a whiny wannabe with a jealous streak.
Man, as if a guy named Chavez didn't have to deal with enough crap from white folks growing, now he's got to take more from Latinos?
Shame on you.
by Ozzz on
Feb 16, 2006 11:00 PM PST
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Bleeding Heart A's Fans
The point was that Nico can't act like Captain P.C. here. Chavez is a public figure.
You should troll the internet for a few and find that Chavez's upbringing is a known fact.
Besides, the fact that he's talking about playing for Mexico the day after the U.S. gave him shaft doesn't seem like a dead giveaway that he's not playing "for" Mexico, but using their national team for his own purposes.
The two of you should start opening your eyes and analytical minds instead talking about your feelings. Go watch softball, instead.
by wonderbread74 on
Feb 16, 2006 11:14 PM PST
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Because analytical minds....
Darn them liberal, bleedin' heart, pinko A's fans, I tell you. Darn them back to their diversity-havin', hippy-lovin', import-car drivin' left coast ways. What do they think they're living in, anyway, California?
Freaks.
by sarchasmic on
Feb 17, 2006 7:12 AM PST
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You're shitting me, right?
You should get a life and realize that three paragraphs on espn.com have about as much to do with reality as does anything the comes out of our Vice President's mouth.
He's not Mexican enough for you? Well why don't you tell us a few very brief facts about yourself so we can spit on that. You read a few articles, so you think you know a guy. He's a baseball player, you're a baseball fan - he owes you nothing more than playing baseball as best he can. If you want an idol to worship, at least find yourself one who can lay off the slider low and away ... that and get a life.
by devo on
Feb 17, 2006 8:59 AM PST
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How do you know
by Vacafan on
Feb 17, 2006 12:38 PM PST
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perhaps Chavez AVG is like that ...
by monkeyball on
Feb 17, 2006 2:21 PM PST
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Oh please.
Hell, I'm anglo-saxon in heritage and have been called an 'f'ing arab' when I had a great suntan.
Get down off your high (white) horse, dufus.
by Ozzz on
Feb 17, 2006 5:34 PM PST
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Look man,
Is this somehow offensive to you? Sorry to have the audacity to take issue with your comments, but I thought that was what this forum is for ...who's the one on the high (white) horse??
by Vacafan on
Feb 17, 2006 5:53 PM PST
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I'll tell you who.
I'm a white guy, and I took shit for being 'dark' many times. I'm gonna go right ahead and assume that Eric chavez did likewise, ESPECIALLY if he grew up in a middle class area.
by Ozzz on
Feb 17, 2006 9:59 PM PST
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Nico
Simple. Beautiful. Effective.
by Blez on
Feb 16, 2006 11:00 PM PST
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Actually, Nico
Matt, who honestly wasn't suprised to hear of Chavez' hatred of the Dutch
by TwistNHook on
Feb 17, 2006 10:09 AM PST
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I'm not Dutch,
by Nico on
Feb 17, 2006 5:40 PM PST
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Give him a chance . . .
1. The idea that because Chavez is "middle class" and knows nothing about the poverty of Mexico, that he is not a real Mexican.
Response: Last time I checked, Mexico and Mexico City have residents with some of the largest concentration of wealth in the world. People are poor in Mexico - among other reasons - because of this extreme centralization of capital. Many Mexican presidents, including the current one, come from ridiculously wealthy families that send their kids to Harvard and Yale. So would you be equally harsh of a Mexican ballplayer from Mexico City that come from a rich family? I don't think so.
2. Your assumption that Chavez needs to go to Mexico too know anything about Mexicans.
Response: There a millions of Mexicans in the US, with the largest concentration in California, including Chavez' native San Diego. You don't need to go to Mexico to see poor Mexicans, and therefore to understand and care for Mexicans. [Oh, and your statement that Chavez should see "the empty eyes of its inhabitants" is problematic, if not racial/racist. There are many groups here and in Mexico fighting poverty, and refusing to be labeled victims. See e.g. www.ezln.org.mx and www.ufw.org]
3. Your idea that Chavez needs to learn Spanish to be Mexican.
Response: Mexico is inhabited by millions of indigenous people that do not speak Spanish, the language of imperialism in Latin America for hundreds of years. Are these people not Mexican?
These points suffice to show your attack is simply a poor judgment on someone we do not really know. Is Chavez a pocho? Probably. [Pocho is a sometimes negative, sometimes matter of fact term for someone in the US who is of Mexican descent, but is disconnected from his roots]. I don't think Eric would deny he's a pocho. But his father is Mexican and so are his grandparents. From a simple "racial" (whatever that means) standpoint, he is Mexican and under WBC rules he is allowed to represent Mexico.
I for one would like to see him play for Mexico. On top of the selfish reasons we have as A's fans for this, it just might be the thing that gets Chavez to know a little more about his heritage, and to make a stronger connection with his roots. . . and that would be a good thing. After all, it's never to late to learn or to change. Give him a chance.
by oaktownmario on Feb 16, 2006 11:19 PM PST 0 recs
let me add #4 to your litany of reasons
by iceplant on
Feb 17, 2006 10:15 AM PST
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You're Completely Wrong.
Landon Donovan, Kasey Keller, Claudio Reyna, Taylor Twellman, Chris Klein, DeMarcus Beasley...I'm too tired to basically named the entire roster.
Apparentlly, who haven't watched US soccer since 1994.
Also, most African players are not from Europe. You have it backwards, bro. They're born in Africa and find vast riches playing for European clubs.
If the WBC isn't about patriotism for one's country then what is it for? Let's dispense with the national teams and have them play for their own cities. Oh, that called the MLB regular season.
by wonderbread74 on
Feb 17, 2006 7:15 PM PST
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Facts
by Colorado Fan on
Feb 18, 2006 10:04 AM PST
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Whatever
Whether he plays for the US or Mexico, my initial concern is for Chavez's shoulder, not his 'cultural identity'.
Though I'm actually starting to wonder if this might be a good thing, if just so that it's that many fewer spring training games Chavez will spend playing next to the Human Wrecking Ball at shortstop.
by Nate on Feb 16, 2006 11:48 PM PST 0 recs
I'm confused.
I DON'T speak Hangul. I mean, I literally forgot everything while learning to speak English.
So, am I Korean enough to play for said country? Furthermore, can I look at my own brother and sister (they were not born in S. Korea) and tell them that I'm more Korean than they are? Would we play for separate teams?
Or am I not Korean enough because I don't speak the language?
Also, I feel that the "fame and fortune is a trade-off for being freely analyzed and judged" way of thinking is an excuse for someone who likes to judge people. I don't care if that's how it is these days, it's still wrong.
by Sharon on Feb 17, 2006 3:47 AM PST 0 recs
it depends
by xbhaskarx on
Feb 17, 2006 4:48 AM PST
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Citizenship.....
The WBC is about COUNTRIES, NOT HERITAGE. It's not the asians vs. the latinos vs. whitey vs....you get the point. I feel that players should be placed on teams based on citizenship, not heritage. Of course, being the "melting pot" of cultures, the US has the advantage.
Anyone watch ESPN when it was commented on A-Rod that he's probably never even been to Mexico other than Cancun. I was LMAO.
That is all.
by djcoreyferren on
Feb 17, 2006 10:33 AM PST
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But as it stands,
I don't understand the strong reactions to players choosing who they want to play for when THAT'S WHAT THE RULES ALLOW. The way the media is handling the A-Rod story is disgusting to me.
by Sharon on
Feb 17, 2006 10:48 AM PST
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Ozzie Guillen
by Colorado Fan on
Feb 18, 2006 10:07 AM PST
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chavy's shoes
by xbhaskarx on Feb 17, 2006 4:47 AM PST 0 recs
Easy buddy
by salb918 on
Feb 17, 2006 5:10 AM PST
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Hay - I am in Chinese shoes today!!!!
I know I have zero American shoes ---those were the good old days when you could walk in American shoes.
by Carerra on
Feb 17, 2006 9:05 AM PST
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So you're essentially
by JCase on Feb 17, 2006 7:48 AM PST 0 recs
Do you commend...
Wake up, A's fans.
by wonderbread74 on
Feb 17, 2006 7:19 PM PST
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In other words,
Go to sleep, A's fans.
by Nico on
Feb 17, 2006 7:48 PM PST
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Who cares?
by kaweahkaweah on Feb 17, 2006 7:57 AM PST 0 recs
For some of us,
by Nico on
Feb 17, 2006 8:14 AM PST
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Which, as we discussed...
by sarchasmic on
Feb 17, 2006 8:16 AM PST
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Smithers?
by ak_A on Feb 17, 2006 8:37 AM PST 0 recs
what I take from Chavvy wanting to play for Mexico
by batgirl on Feb 17, 2006 10:50 AM PST 0 recs
chavez might play for the USA after all
by gotgreen on Feb 17, 2006 11:26 AM PST 0 recs
sheesh...
I really don't care about watching MLB players compete in meaningless exhibition games against players I don't know from other countries.
I think the risk of injury is too great for MLB players who have yet to start the 2006 season where something REAL like a pennant or World Series trophy is at stake.
I think the WBC rules for determining team memberships such as, if you have a grandparent from the Netherlands you can play for that team or whatever, is downright silly. There's something un-American about it to me.
Thank goodness for AN and other places on the Internet where we can debate these things without judging one another by the color of our skin, any implied ethnicity in our real names, and whatever cultural or racial heritage we happen to have because our moms and our dads had us in a certain geographic location at a certain time.
Argh! When the heck is Opening Day?!?
by BillybUcko on Feb 17, 2006 11:51 AM PST 0 recs
It's a non-issue
by IM4Oakgal on Feb 17, 2006 7:08 PM PST 0 recs
It`s baseball. Not politics.
by SuperDingus on Feb 17, 2006 7:25 PM PST 0 recs
Jeez
And he hasn't even been chosen by Mexico. He just said he'd be willing to play for them because he's keeping his options open.
Get on Chavez for slow starts, batting average, whatever your little heart desires... but don't criticize him for being passionate about the game and wanting to play it.
by Chavinator on Feb 17, 2006 8:22 PM PST 0 recs
Wow,
by alox on Feb 17, 2006 8:34 PM PST 0 recs
While I find this diary highly problematic on a
"It could be said that Chavez's knowledge of his Mexican heritage consists of knowing the intrinsic differences between a chalupa and a gordita at the local Taco Bell."
That had me in stitches!
by BruceBochte on Feb 18, 2006 1:04 PM PST 0 recs
alternative to WBC
by Apricot on Feb 18, 2006 3:02 PM PST 0 recs
You want to argue about this
by salb918 on
Feb 18, 2006 6:25 PM PST
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MLB is watching us
by hunter on
Feb 18, 2006 11:50 PM PST
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the rules are ridiculous, here's a better idea
WBC figures out a way to orchestrate all this and the simultaneous PR coup and liberation that would result would sure get me to tune in. The PR Paradox 2006 World Baseball Classic would captivate us all
by Cutthemullet on Feb 18, 2006 8:49 PM PST 0 recs
edit
by Cutthemullet on
Feb 18, 2006 8:59 PM PST
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second line
by Cutthemullet on
Feb 18, 2006 9:01 PM PST
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eh
by Cutthemullet on
Feb 18, 2006 9:22 PM PST
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Cutthemullet, if you feel that
by Nico on
Feb 18, 2006 9:35 PM PST
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lol
by Cutthemullet on
Feb 18, 2006 9:36 PM PST
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F*ck
by Cutthemullet on
Feb 18, 2006 9:35 PM PST
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