Jay Payton signs with Baltimore

by gotgreen on Dec 8, 2006 7:26 PM PST Comment 45 comments

According to the Baltimore Sun, Jay Payton and the O's agreed on a two-year, $9.75 million deal today. Looks like JayPay will be their starting left fielder.

Good for him. He's going to get to play everyday like he wants.

So it looks like this Ryan Goleski guy the A's got in the Rule 5 draft will indeed be our 4th outfielder! There was a discussion about Goleski on AN in this diary.

Scout.com had this blurb about Goleski:

Frank Derry of our sister site Indians Ink explains Goleski?s poor 2005 season thusly:

"?for whatever reason, he struggled in 2005, batting only .212 with 17 homers and 67 RBI in 122 games at Kinston. He also struck out 134 times in 458 at-bats.

Those were, by far, the worst numbers he had ever put up at any level -- and led to his not even being ranked in the annual list of Top 50 Tribe Prospects by Indians Ink entering 2006.

So, what happened in 2005?

Some believe that after he hit 28 homers in 2004, he got it in his mind that in order to make it to the big leagues, he would have to be a home run hitter. Subconsciously, he changed his usually compact swing and began trying to hit the long ball. His focus, which is normally outstanding, began to get distracted by his desire to hit homers.

He regained his focus and determination in 2006. And, with his powerful swing once again intact, the ball started flying out of the park.

The ball jumps off his bat when he stays under control. At Eastern Michigan, he hit 51 homers and drove in 167 runs in just 155 games.

Goleski is also a good defensive player with an above-average arm makes him ideal for right field, which is his favorite outfield position."

Speaking of our outfielders, what's the deal with Bradley? I thought he was arbitration-eligible also but haven't heard anything about him yet.

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How the Hell?

Payton needs a new agent. How can anyone with CF skills NOT get $5 million annual in this market?

This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.

A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 8, 2006 7:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

.125 per

"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on Dec 8, 2006 7:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I hate to say this...

Huh?

Zoomed right over my head capper3.

This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.

A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 8, 2006 8:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

meant that the difference between 2 years and $4.75MM and $5.00MM was only $0.125MM per year.

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 8, 2006 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

An attempt at humor?

Please Billy, for the love of God, make a trade already.

The locals are going stir crazy.

This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.

A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 8, 2006 8:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Right Math/Bad Typing

I meant to say that diff between 9.75 and 10 over two years is only $0.125 per year.

And yes, please pray for a trade.

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 9, 2006 6:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Call me an idiot....

I don't know what the Yanks plan to do with him or if he would refuse the deal....but why not go after Bernie Williams.....his doubles and average for last year would place him second only to Payton....

by Catfish on Dec 8, 2006 7:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

He can't field anymore

and the DH spot has already been filled.

"[Frank's] a big battler. He's the mother of battleships."

-Nick Swisher

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 8, 2006 7:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And he's a damn dirty Yankee.

"That's one osteoporitic offense." - Jeepers, on the SF Giants

by Ozzz on Dec 8, 2006 8:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I won't call you an idiot, but....

No wheels
+
No arm
+
No pop
+
No DH opening
=
no contract

Cisco Kid was a friend of mine...Cisco Field, not so sure.

by haren4prez on Dec 9, 2006 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

NOOOOOOO!!!

Im gunna miss you JayPay... You always used to wave at me wen i would scream ur name up in bleachers =[.... By the way u had the best booty yes even better then crosby's!!! I wish you the best!

by iloveoakland on Dec 8, 2006 8:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

O's need Kielty! Very anemic vs LHPs!

O's vs LHP
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/Statistics/Team/playerstats?team=bal&seasonYear=2006&split=31& amp;seasonType=2&type=reg&pagetype=batting

Oakland vs LHP
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/Statistics/Team/playerstats?team=oak&seasonYear=2006&split=31& amp;seasonType=2&type=reg&pagetype=batting

Flip Kielty for O's prospects?
Baltimore's roster shows every outfielder is ...a lefty!

by Billy Ball 2005 on Dec 8, 2006 9:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

hmm

I thought JayPay would get a few mil more than that.

by chri5 on Dec 8, 2006 9:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Same here--Payton might be

the first player this off-season to be paid what he is actually worth.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 8, 2006 9:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

It's weird not to react to a free agent signing by not rolling my eyes and rambling on about how much a team is overpaying Player X.

The Orioles are actually getting a decent deal, unless Payton suddenly falls apart.

by bear88 on Dec 8, 2006 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

like juan pierre

stands to earn double jay pay's salary....between them 2, i'd take payton in a heartbeat. i guess it's indeed a crazy market.

by arch on Dec 8, 2006 11:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What kind of bizzaro world is this

where the Baltimore Orioles make a deal that makes sense?!

This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.

A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 9, 2006 7:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Arbitration

So was it a mistake not to offer arbitration to Payton? We potentially missed out on a sandwich pick by not doing so. Would he have been content to go with a one year deal knowing he could use players like Pierre and GMJ as benchmarks for his salary or would he have seeked out a multi-year deal like he got with Baltimore?

Green eyes come from yellow flecks of fatty pigment on a dark background. Some men think a green-eyed woman is exotic. The truth is she's got fat eyes.

by Furious George on Dec 8, 2006 9:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

You're probably right:

Payton probably would have refused arbitration, knowing he could get a multi-year contract, and more playing time, and ultimately a little more money, with a deal like the one he signed--as compared to returning to Oakland for a year. And we would have our sandwich. Pick.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 8, 2006 9:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

RE

I thought I read on Rotoworld last week that Payton had a clause in his contract that the team had to decline arbitration. They mentioned it because they had originally knocked BB for not offering arby to Payton. I'm not 100% sure, but that would explain things a bit.

"You're a terrible ballplayer, but you've always been a great asshole."-salb918 on Ozzie Guillen

by gatling on Dec 8, 2006 9:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed

From Rotoworld: We criticized the A's last week when they didn't offer Payton arbitration, but it turned out that was a clause in his contract preventing them from doing so. Sorry about that, Billy.

Interesting that nobody here had heard about this before though.

Green eyes come from yellow flecks of fatty pigment on a dark background. Some men think a green-eyed woman is exotic. The truth is she's got fat eyes.

by Furious George on Dec 8, 2006 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And an interesting window

on Payton's state of mind when he negotiated that contract with Billy.

"Even if you know the deck is stacked in your favor, you still have to have the discipline to trust the math and the cojones to go to the ATM." BB

by green star oakland on Dec 9, 2006 12:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And a good indication of why...

..the A's never looked very interested in bringing him back. with a no-arby clause, he was basically saying from the git-go that he was looking towards a big payday.

"That's one osteoporitic offense." - Jeepers, on the SF Giants

by Ozzz on Dec 9, 2006 12:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Payton's contract

Jay's last deal was signed with San Diego back in 2004. He was then traded to Boston 12/04, and later traded to the A's on 7/05. Payton had signed a 2 year deal with a team option for 2006 and he never wanted to be in Boston. It's probable that his "no-arby" clause was part of his contract before he ever became an Oakland A.

This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.

A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 9, 2006 7:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I had

I had heard about the contract clause before I read about it in Rotoworld. I don't remember exactly where I first heard it, but I thought it was somewhere on AN, seeing as how AN is 90% of what I read about the A's. (And the other 10% is links I follow FROM AN.)

"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Dec 9, 2006 12:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Arby question

Why do players agree ahead of time to decline arbitration when the team offers it. The Cardinals offered Mulder arby and we all thought they were crazy until we heard that they had pre-arranged with Mulder for him to decline it. The team gets a draft pick or two but what do the players get out of it. If you're a type A free agent it actually works to your disadvantage to do this because teams are less inclined to sign you knowing that they will have to give compensation.

The best example was Dave Roberts who went from SD to SF. He actually hurt his new team by having pre-arranged with the Padres to decline arbitration.

by Larry E on Dec 9, 2006 5:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

there has to be some financial

benefit involved (on both ends). Major League Baseball is above all a business

by OaklandSi on Dec 9, 2006 7:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

used to be deadline

there used to be a deadline for new contracts for arby eligible to return to their old team(like Carlos Beltran couldn't go back to Houston because of this), I think Dec 1 or something. New labor agreement this year so that deadline is out the window. So Mulder's case makes no sense at all to me, though ones agreed to before this year make some sense

Hi, I am closetasfan, and I am a NRAF, and an ANA

by closetasfan on Dec 9, 2006 8:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

JayPay Falls Into Dye Category

If the A's weanted to retain him he would have made more through artbitration thus Billy couldn't re-sign him. The O's contract was the only one out there so he had to take it.

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Dec 9, 2006 7:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Baltimore not the only team

A week ago various news outlets were saying that Payton had a as many as 6 different teams interested in him. Maybe Baltimore was the only one gauranteeing him a starting gig?

This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.

A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 9, 2006 7:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You guys are crazy

I'm sure some of you read Moneyball, but then you'd certainly know that an old corner outfielder who doesn't get on base or hit for power isn't worth $5 mil per, even in this market. Sure, Jay Pay's contract doesn't hurt the O's that much, but the 500 ABs they're going to give him certainly will, if they want to move up the ranks and finish 3rd.

by Nick86 on Dec 9, 2006 8:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I don't think anybody's saying he's great, Nick

But when Juan Pierre, a worse player statistically, gets 5 years, 45 million, and the Orioles sign Jay Pay for one-fifth the financial committment...that's a damn good deal.
And yes, he's better suited to corner OF but he can play center, too.
But I see your point, he's not gonna get the Orioles over the hump.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 9, 2006 9:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

juan pierre > payton

First, if we're using Juan Pierre as a base line for evaluating contracts, I think most contracts will hold up well by comparison. I don't think we should consider Gary Matthews Jr.'s contract a bargain, simply because it was better than (or not as bad as) Pierre's. Second, Juan Pierre is better than Jay Payton.

WARP3s the last three years:
Pierre:
6.1, 4.4, 5.2
Payton: 1.2, 2.7, 3.9.

Pierre is also five years younger.

by Nick86 on Dec 9, 2006 10:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

WS

So you have a win shares comparison or only WARP?

by apilgrim on Dec 9, 2006 9:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

WARP is a counting stat.

In those three years, Pierre was give 2216 plate appearances.

Payton only received 1534.

If you even out the PAs:

Pierre: 5.5, 6.1, 4.4, 5.2
Payton: 7.8, 1.8, 4.5, 5.0

So, really what you have is that Jay Payton had a very bad 2004, but every other year, he and Pierre have been basically even.

Pierre is not only receiving way more per year than Payton, his contract is also much longer.

I don't know what kind of relationship, drama, etc he had with Billy. But at that money and for those years, I'd definitely have loved to have him back.

Another project of Devo's

by devo on Dec 10, 2006 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I am going to miss Jay Pay.

Guy was solid and unlike the rest of our team, he could actually be counted on to drive in runners in scoring position.

by nfadil4 on Dec 9, 2006 1:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

very sad

maybe it is all the jaypay haters that make me like him so much. all he did was play every day - hit the ball hard 2 or 3 ab's per game - solid d - good decisions all around - appeared to be a great teammate - i like him at that price a lot. good luck to him except against our silicon valley a's.

by oakath on Dec 9, 2006 3:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Arb

We should have offered him arb that way we would have gotten a draft pick. Bean messed up on this one

I am a sports writter.

by scottofchico on Dec 9, 2006 7:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Beane could not offer arby to Payton

According to Rotoworld there was language in Jay's contract preventing the A's from offering him arbitration once he hit FA.

This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.

A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 9, 2006 10:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Jay Payton

Jay Payton, good luck in Baltimore. Thanks for all the hard work you did over here. You had some big hits for us and I hope you can help out the Orioles against the east-but not the A's.

by apilgrim on Dec 9, 2006 9:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

win shares

Payton: 15, 12, 15
Pierre: 24, 14, 16

by Nick86 on Dec 10, 2006 9:37 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Great data Nick/devo

Are win shares/WARP for the entire league posted online for free anywhere?

by notsellingjeans on Dec 10, 2006 11:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

WARP is freely available

at baseballprospectus.com

Another project of Devo's

by devo on Dec 10, 2006 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

win shares

at hardballtimes.com

by Nick86 on Dec 10, 2006 8:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

devo

First, Pierre has higher EQAs the last few years, and that's an average stat that doesn't take into account defensive position (which benefits Payton). More importantly, you can't justify the Payton contract by saying that it's better than the Pierre contract, which is the worst contract of the year. It is better than the Pierre contract, but I don't think it's some great bargain. It doesn't compare as favorably with Kenny Lofton's 1-year, 7-million.

by Nick86 on Dec 10, 2006 8:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs