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Around SBN: Interview With UMD Athletic Director, Dr. Debbie Yow

The Five Stages of Grief

Barry Zito will no longer wear green and gold.  I knew it was coming.  I knew we were going to lose Z to some other team that was willing to seriously overpay for his services.  Oh and overpay they did. Zito will don the Halloween uni of those clowns from across the Bay for the next seven years and $126 million bones.

I have such mixed feelings about this because I hate the Giants.  Not as much as the Angels and Yankees, mind you, but I can't stand that team nonetheless.  It was the Giants and their media whore KNBR that initially prompted me to start Athletics Nation.  I was so tired of hearing about that team that I wanted somewhere that was Giant free.

Yet here we are full circle whereas I'm discussing the Giants on my haven for A's fans only.  Still when the news struck me I found myself feeling those five stages of grief...

Denial:  He CAN'T be signing with the Giants.  Not that team.  It can't be true.  We can't be hearing the Giants dingleberry announcers (Jon Miller excluded) talking about Zito for 35 starts, can we?  Is this happening?  I'm dreaming and it's Vida Blue reincarnated...

Anger:  I still hate those Giants.  They're old, uncool and decrepit and yet they suddenly made themselves seem much cooler.  I can't stand Zito for being money-grubbing and making it clear that he was going to the highest bidder no matter who it was.  ARRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH.

Bargaining:  Well, at least he isn't pitching for the Rangers or the Mariners and is in the National League (which will probably help his pitching stats significantly).

Depression:  Ah, forget it, baseball is disgusting and full of money grubbers who have no sense of loyalty at all.  I'm done and I'm going back to bed.  Please don't wake me up until next November.

Acceptance:  Zito is now the enemy.  Plain and simple.  I've loved the guy for years for that beautiful bender, but he's gone.  Forever.  He's now tainted orange and black and that's the facts.

Yes, I went through all of that today.  It probably would've been a more drawn out feeling had I not known that Zito was already going.  The Giants ridiculously overpaid for Zito, but they had to in order to get him and they apparently have the money.  And that's the way the market for starting pitching is going, so who knows what kind of contracts starting pitchers will be getting next offseason that might make this contract look small.  

At the same time, I'm kind of done with Zito.  He's gone to the highest bidder and good for him.  But that's his prerogative.  It's also mine to decide to forget about the guy.  Anyone want a Zito A's jersey cheap?

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I'm ok with it
mlb and all their owners are all about the money, so why hold the players to a higher standard? Mind you I don't like it, but I can't really do anything about it. If I want to be a major league baseball fan (and I have been all my life) I'll root for my team despite what I don't like about the business.

I won't hold any particular distain for Zito as long as he doesn't pull a Giambi and publicly diss the team, the fans and the city that has treated him so well these last six years.

by OaklandSi on Dec 28, 2006 12:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hmm...
Usually it's so easy to hate the Giants because their biggest star is their biggest arsehole.  Will Clark and Barry Bonds have filled that role for 20 years plus.

Zito was my favorite player with the A's over the past 7 years, and I'm sad he's gone, but I'm happy that he's going to be pitching close by, and I can go see him on a regular basis if I want to.

I'm not going to go hunting on Ebay for one of those 1989 A's/Giants split caps, but I can't hate the Giants, especially in 2008, when there's only going to be one Barry on the team.

Like I've said in other posts, if you want to get an A's jersey that's going to last, make sure the back says "Beane 11"  or  "Beane 27"  (those were the two numbers he wore in 1989) because Billy ain't going nowhere.

"I ain't ever had a job. I just always played baseball."- former A's pitcher Satchel Paige

by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Dec 28, 2006 12:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Split caps
"I'm not going to go hunting on Ebay for one of those 1989 A's/Giants split caps"

I bought up all the ones I could find and burned them.

by gregorymark on Dec 29, 2006 6:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow oh wow.
The money is so freaking insane. This is "Roger Clemens in his prime" money. When does Johan Santana become a free agent and what could Boras get for him? His own planet?

by matthias on Dec 28, 2006 12:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I went through a different 5 stages:
Vodka, Whiskey, Beer, Anger, and More Vodka. And I don't even care about Zito; it's just my Thursday routine.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 28, 2006 12:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

don't forget to mention those
magazines too.
rip 2006, it was nice while it lasted.

by ak_A on Dec 28, 2006 5:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

we get screwed on draft picks again
no #1 for frank (who was a legit MVP contender), no #1 for zito (who gets the richest contract for a pitcher in history). what a bummer. this is supposed to be a really good draft, and i was looking forward to having multiple #1's to retool our barren farm system. dammit.
"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Dec 28, 2006 12:21 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It's okay.
Most of the guys we have starting weren't taken in the first round.

DJ was, what, 7th round? Mark Ellis was 9th. Milton was a 2nd rounder, and we have loads of those.

Mike Piazza? 62nd round draft pick.

We have sandwich picks and 2nd rounders aplenty - we'll do fine.

"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 28, 2006 12:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Then again
Street, Zito, Chavez, Crosby, Kotsay, Swisher and Blanton were all 1st round picks, so maybe some value can be had from that round too!

The A's "extra" picks come at 35, mid-50's, low-70's and mid-80's. 2007 is supposed to be a deep draft, but picking 80-something with your 2nd round pick might be pushing it.

This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.
A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 28, 2006 1:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But remember...
...when we have high draft picks, we inevitably choose guys that we know we can sign on a limited budget - Landon Powell, for example.

In respect of that, I don't see a 1st rounder, a sandwich pick, and a few 2nd rounders as being a bad haul. Especially in a deep draft.

"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 28, 2006 1:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That happened in '02
I don't have my referrence materials handy, but as I recall the top draft picks from 2003 on have all signed for slot money.
This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.
A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 28, 2006 3:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

money is quite the issue it was in 2002
i think we would've been able to sign draft picks this year - and draft the best ones (not draft ones we could afford aka the jerry brown effect). and yes, many good players are not 1st round picks, as the MLB draft isn't quite like the nba or nfl draft. but still, 1st round picks are pretty valuable if you know how to pick talent. and, like i said, we lost a top-5 MVP vote getter and what is now the richest pitcher in baseball history, and all we get are sandwich and 2nd round picks. un-f'ing-believable. and we really could've used the picks, our farm system is pretty shoddy these days.
"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Dec 28, 2006 7:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i believe zito...
was not taken in the 1st round...unless moneyball lied...cuz i believe he was taken in the 8th or 9th round if my memory serves me right

by AthleticsFanatic4ever on Dec 28, 2006 4:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Zito was a first round pick.
#9 in the draft.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 28, 2006 4:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Zito
Zito wasn't part of the Moneyball Draft.  Blanton and Swisher were, though.

by Colorado Fan on Dec 28, 2006 4:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And Jeremy Brown and Mark Kiger
Shoot, Zito was in the bigs in 2000.  The Moneyball draft was 2002.

by achiappanza on Dec 28, 2006 5:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That just goes to show
how precocious that wacky Barry Zito is, striking out the side in the majors two years before being drafted. And he does yoga. That card!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 28, 2006 5:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

he wasn't in the moneyball draft of '02...
but he was mentioned in the book as being a 9th rd pick...im sure u know the book wasn't just about that draft..it was about hatteburg,youkilis, chad bradford and shit like that

by AthleticsFanatic4ever on Dec 28, 2006 8:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you sure it mentioned him being in the 9th
round, and not the #9 pick?

It's been a long time since I read the book, but I think it talked about the Zito vs. Sheets issue? And both were first rounders.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 28, 2006 8:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i think zito was picked twice
first time was at a much lower round (maybe 9th) - didn't sign, went to USC, then we took him in the first round.
"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Dec 28, 2006 10:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the important stuff
The A's drafted Barry Zito 9th overall in the 1999 draft. They gave him a $1.59 million signing bonus.

Zito was a re-draft, meaning he had been drafted before 1999 but did not come to terms.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/z/zitoba01.shtml

This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.
A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 29, 2006 4:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Rich Harden
I think Rich Harden was taken somewhere around the 8th round.

by apilgrim on Dec 28, 2006 9:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

heh
whoops 17th round

by apilgrim on Dec 28, 2006 9:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Rich Harden, 17th round pick
will always be my favorite of those.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 28, 2006 8:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So why don't we get a first round pick?...
Because the Giants didn't have one or what?

by SinceIwas7 on Dec 28, 2006 12:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

because they suck.
literally-- because their record was in the bottom half last year.

by stinkycheese on Dec 28, 2006 1:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Impressive, Blez
I thought the grief process was supposed to take a while. You've completed the cycle by the end of morning.

"It's also mine to decide to forget about the guy"

I'm with you here. Well, as much as I can be, seeing how Zito was never quite my favorite to begin with. He's going to make a boatload of money on a mediocre team. Good for him, blah blah blah. What's next for the A's? That's all I care about right now. Funny how a guy who was so much a part of the team for the last however many years so qucikly becomes a footnote.

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Dec 28, 2006 12:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Gotta agree....
It's wierd how we can bleed green and gold for these players, but the second they leave, I no longer care.

With the A's you've gotta Love the Laundry, Not the Player.

If you love the player, you'll be disappointed in no more than 3 yrs (Chavy's the exception)

Tear down Mount Davis!

by polytician on Dec 28, 2006 12:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Zito Jersey
I would've kept the jersey, if Z went to the Rangers, Mets or Dodgers -- but the Freakin' GIANTS??

Any suggestions on what I should do with it?  Whould I use it to wash the car? polish my shoes? Or just burn the thing, and consider it an offering to the Moneyball Gods?

Tear down Mount Davis!

by polytician on Dec 28, 2006 12:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

if it's an L or XL ...
... you could offer it to the Monkeyball Gods :)
you corrupt bitches @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 28, 2006 12:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or you could...
.. sew a "sucks" under his name.
"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 28, 2006 12:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Go Johnny!
That's what Johnny Rotten did to his Pink Floyd T-shirt, and it got him discovered!  Look where he is now... a successful nature show host.  Who'da thunk it?  

(Go back in time to 1980 and tell some punk rock kid that in 25 years, Johnny Rotten and Henry Rollins are successful TV show hosts, and he'd hock a loogie in yer eye!)

"I ain't ever had a job. I just always played baseball."- former A's pitcher Satchel Paige

by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Dec 28, 2006 12:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or do what I saw a guy do with a Giambi jersey--
He made a big "$" in the usual style of the numbers, put it over the number, and still proudly wore the jersey. g

by anomaly_kat on Dec 28, 2006 1:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

...snakes...
...why'd it have to be snakes...anything but snakes.
so it comes down to this...

by SF Geoff on Dec 28, 2006 3:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ouch.
Does any ANer ever root like I do when the Giants and the Dodgers play...go Dodger blue???  Even more reason to now.  OH, THE PAIN!!!

by LilAnnieOaktown on Dec 28, 2006 12:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Oh heck yeah.
It was one of the best days of the year this month when I found out that Jason Schmidt went Blue.
"I guess more players lick themselves than are ever licked by an opposing team." ~ Connie Mack

by Flyin As on Dec 28, 2006 2:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

agree...
ya ive been an A's fan since i was little living in Benicia, California(next to Vallejo)..when i moved to the L.A. area...my love for the A's grew even more...and so my hate for the Angels grew...and i took in the Dodgers as the my second favorite that i would like to see play the A's in my ideal world series..so ya i hate the Giants...hate barry bonds although i know ill never again see a better(but chemically enhanced)swing in baseball...now ill ignore/ root against Zito, afterall he always my least favorite out of the Big 3

by AthleticsFanatic4ever on Dec 28, 2006 4:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Stage #6.......
Anticipation.

I can't wait to see the A's whoop-up on Z a couple of times of year in the Bay-Bridge series.

What's the sked say? The first time he pitches in Oakland! Imagine the crowd! Z's patented "rough early innings".....Swisher takes him deep for a 3-run job in the 1st! Pandemonium erupts!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sidenote:

Highest paid pitcher ever? What has the game come to?

by Force on Dec 28, 2006 12:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

yeah...
Zito will have a good year... 17-10 or something like that, with an ERA in the 3's...

But the A's will eat his lunch, taking the curveball low for balls and fouling off the two-seamer.  Zito won't get any victories against Oakland this year.

"I ain't ever had a job. I just always played baseball."- former A's pitcher Satchel Paige

by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Dec 28, 2006 1:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Assuming 35 starts this season...
...that's over half a million per start.  Good grief.  That boggles my mind.
"So, whatever, Ozzie." -- Nick Swisher

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Dec 28, 2006 6:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not exactly
Zito's contract is the highest contract ever for a pitcher.  Partly that's general inflation and all the pitchers are getting obscenely high money this year; even more it's because Zito was signed for seven years. It's pretty rare to see a big FA pitcher signed for so many years. Zito is young for a free agent and he's unusually durable, so he can swing a seven-year contract.  Roger Clemens got the same annual salary, but for only one year.

Then again, $18 million a year!  Holy crap!  Add $16 million for the other Barry.  For a lot of teams that's half the payroll right there.

"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Dec 29, 2006 12:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take the Zito uni......
he aggravated and tantalized us for the last 4 years, and he was working on the ultra-cheap.  He may drive Giants fans absolutely insane, and we'll get to see it up close and personal.  Gimme that Zito jersey - I'll wear it over to BigPhone park as Zito goes 100 pitches thru 5 innings.

On the other hand, a fresh start in a new league without the DH may be just the ticket to re-start the clock on his trick pitch of a hammer.

No matter what happens, Scott Boras is THE MAN!  Why would any free agent-to-be ever hire any other agent?  $40MM more than the next highest bidder?  Say goodbye, Brian Sabean.

by BleacherDave on Dec 28, 2006 12:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It's not that Boras is the man..
...it's that the Giants are panic-buyers.

They paid about $8m more for another year of Bonds than anyone else would have offered, even though nobody else was interested enough in the guy to say so publicly.

And here, they've paid about $4m a year more than Texas offered - and Texas are usually the stupid spenders.

"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 28, 2006 1:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Got over it long ago
We knew he was leaving years ago.  Even if the A's had the resources to pay him that kind of money, they wouldn't be stupid enough to do it.  And for that, I am grateful.
"[Frank's] a big battler. He's the mother of battleships."

-Nick Swisher

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 28, 2006 12:40 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

that's exactly how i feel
no matter how much money the a's were spending, they wouldn't be spending that much on zito, so why should we be angry at zito?  our front office doesn't even want the guy at the market price.  enjoy your money, zito.  thanks for the memories.  next.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 28, 2006 3:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Three words:
Pre-season exhibition game.

Wait, is that three words or four?

"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 28, 2006 12:43 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

ahh
the mighty power of the dash, turning three words and a prefix into just three words.

by methodrampage on Dec 28, 2006 1:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hyphen!
"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Dec 29, 2006 12:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I dont see him as an enemy at all...
I dont get that at all.  I guess I dont see the Giant hatred like I understand towards the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, etc.  I will 100% root for Barry to do very well across the Bay....and will certainly catch him in Dodger Stadium whenever he comes and pull for him to beat the Dodgers.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 28, 2006 12:45 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

A's / Giants
My hatred toward the Giants has subsided since my days in California - 1970 - 1997 - As an Oakland A's Fan, The closer you are to the Bay Area, the more you hate the Giants.  

Living in Colorado, I was glad to see Zito sign with the Giants.  It will be fun to tell my Giants buddies, "I told you he wasn't worth the money."  As they monitor their heart rates with every Zito start.

Zito is the most frustrating pitcher in the Bigs, and he was only making 8-Million this season.  I can't imagine how frustrating it will be when he's making 18-Million per season.

ACE, Zito is Not.

by Colorado Fan on Dec 28, 2006 1:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I just never saw why...
I lived in the Bay Area for 18 years and never got the hating the Giants thing.....I hate the Angels because they are the rival.  I never was a fan of the Giants, but would rather see them do well than a team like the Dodgers...and I certainly pulled for them in the WS vs the Angels.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 28, 2006 1:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm as puzzled by it as you are
Hating actual opponents like Angels and Yankees makes a lot of sense.  Giants hatred just sort of smacks of underclass resentment of some sort.  It's not worth it... especially when it's not true.

by achiappanza on Dec 28, 2006 1:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I can tell you why I hate the Giants.
Barry Lamar Bonds.

And the fools who bow to him like he's a god, even though he wouldn't waste spit on them if they were on fire.

And stupid management. And Rotating Name Ballpark.

"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 28, 2006 1:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hate
That would explain why you'd hate them from anywhere on the globe.  It doesn't explain why there's so much of it from AN'ers in general.

by achiappanza on Dec 28, 2006 2:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Um...
..Maybe because we inhabit the globe?
"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 28, 2006 4:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Aliens hate Barry Bonds Too!
My crazy homeless friend who says he's from another planet really hates the Giants.  One time, he got released from the drunk tank and the cops gave him a Giants t-shirt to wear because he puked on his other clothes...  When I saw him later and pointed out to him that he was wearing a Giants shirt, he looked down aghast and ripped the damn thing in half with his bare hands.

And this was in November!

"I ain't ever had a job. I just always played baseball."- former A's pitcher Satchel Paige

by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Dec 29, 2006 8:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you still talk to Esteban much?
"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 29, 2006 1:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's about splitting the market
The Giants are unfortunately MUCH better at marketing and dominating an area.  They own the radio, they take priority on the television, they have the "territorial rights" to San Jose for reasons that are sketchy at best, relegating the A's to the "small market" we've grown so accustomed to.

It wasn't always this way.  At one point, the A's were the ones with the better stadium, way more star power, and way more attention (and attendance!) in the area.  Some of us long for those days, and blame the Giants (as well as the A's ownership groups) for the decline.

Huh. I always thought that baseball's version of a home run is the motherf---ing home run itself. -FJM

by oblique on Dec 28, 2006 2:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

When were those days?
It had to be the 70's, because in the 80's and 90's, Will Clark and Robby Thompson ruled all Bay Area media coverage in the 80's (see: KNBR).  Since I've been a fan of MLB Baseball (1980), the Giants have always been the media darling.

Two Words:  Crazy Crab

by Colorado Fan on Dec 28, 2006 4:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

the late 80's....
the A's were the media darlings of all baseball in the Bash Brothers days.  They had the #1 payroll and the most stars.  KNBR and the Chron are the roots of my Giant distaste.  Once they announced that new ballpark, the fact that the Giants struggled at the gate for years, played in a horrid stadium, and were sold to Tampa Bay were completely forgotten.

by BleacherDave on Dec 28, 2006 9:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I was referring to
the late '80s.
Huh. I always thought that baseball's version of a home run is the motherf---ing home run itself. -FJM

by oblique on Dec 28, 2006 10:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

When "it's" not true
When "what's" not true??!!  "Underclass resentment?" Ummmm, not sure, but no one ever hates the Giants because they feel "underclassed."  Hating the Giants because of "what they do," is like hating the Devil Rays, or Grizzlies, or Sam Houston State.  Theres no point. They lose year in and year out.
I hate them because they're so bad and we still have to talk about them.
If Barry "wanted to win," he picked the wrong team.  15 wins -- tops.  And that's if EVERYTHING goes right. The Giants have 100-loss potential.
VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Dec 28, 2006 2:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Underclass resentment
isn't about the Giants per se.  It's about San Francisco.  It is part of the San Francisco mentality to lord it over the rest of the Bay Area like we're just their imperial provinces.  They dominate the media, so that everything is San Francisco this and San Francisco that, like no other cities matter.  (Go anywhere outside the Bay Area and mention the 1989 earthquake, and they'll call it the "San Francisco earthquake". My wife and I visited recently and she asked which was the freeway that collapsed and killed 70 people ... she thought it was in SF, had no idea it was in Oakland.)

Part of the San Francisco media strategy is to badmouth Oakland, San Jose, and other cities, as if they have no culture or class, or (in the case of Oakland) that they're full of slums and rapists and you're risking your life just to get off the BART train.  They have to; otherwise they couldn't maintain those high SF property values. The Giants are just part of the general pattern.  The San Francisco team gets all the attention, because it's San Francisco which is the real city.  Oakland is just a dumb suburb, so our team doesn't matter.

That's why I hate the Giants.

"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Dec 29, 2006 12:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely
I'll wish Zito well in a Giants uniform the same way I wish Huddy well in a Braves shirt.
"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" --Johnny Rotten

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 28, 2006 1:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Blez
I needed to go thru the 5 stages too..  I've been over with Barry by end of last season.  It was all about 'show me the money' especially when he signed with Boras.

by oaklandbbfan on Dec 28, 2006 12:46 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Rob Neyer writes...
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=14071

The ONLY thing this deal does is make the Giants look ridiculous. Granted, Zito's ERA will get a boost from the National League and the Giants' home ballpark. And this one isn't as dumb as the Mike Hampton deal with the Rockies. But based on the facts at hand, this looks to me like one of the dumber free-agent signings ever. Zito just isn't very good. And if he's worth $18 million per season, Santana's worth $25 million

More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Dec 28, 2006 12:47 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

money grubbing? be serious
what did you want barry to do?  go to texas or NY rather than stay in an area he likes living?  sign with the A's for something like 4 years and $44m (more than that wouldn't have made sense for the A's)?  a hometown discount is one thing, but c'mon.

i don't get the bitterness.  he's not the enemy, he's just a giant.  personally, if i like a player i tend to keep liking them after they leave.  it's not just the laundry for me.  i still like watching giambi hit even as i root against his team, and i'll still like watching zito throw the curve.  i'll root for him when he isn't throwing it against the A's.  

Thanks for the memories Barry -- best of luck to you!

by danh on Dec 28, 2006 12:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Really well said...
Couldn't agree more.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 28, 2006 12:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't Hate the Player
Hate the game, but don't hate the player.

by ChucklesSD on Dec 28, 2006 1:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't hate a guy for leaving.
I hate a guy for lying about why he's leaving.

If it's all about the money, then have the balls to say "I'm gonna get my ass rich, man", rather than "I want to be with a team that can win multiple championships," as you leave an ALCS contender for a group of steroid junkies, over the hill vets and departure lounge inhabitants.

"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 28, 2006 1:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

another candidate
for Post of the Year.  Awesome Oz.
Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Dec 28, 2006 2:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What's to lie about?
Barry gets to stay in the area that he likes best, he goes to the NL in a weak division, and he gets the most money.  It's not like he's choosing between priorities.  Everything points to SF.
"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Dec 29, 2006 12:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

just a hunch
but I'm pretty sure Boras coached Zito on what to say.

by apilgrim on Dec 29, 2006 12:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And this makes it better how?
"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 29, 2006 1:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Never understood
the whole "love/hate the player" thing. You wear an A's uni? I root for you. You don't? I don't root for you.
It's the 26 year old guys who still live at home and have the Giambi poster on the wall that "root for the player." Pick a team. The players come and go, the team stays. That's where you place your loyalty.
Who gives a rip where Zito went? The Giants are really bad without him, and really bad with him. Hope he enjoys going about 14-12.
VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Dec 28, 2006 3:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And I never understood the whole
I cant root for a player I liked on the A's when he changes team.  We just see it differently is all.  I respect the way you look at it, I just dont get it and could never be that way.  I root for Giambi, Hudson, Miguel, etc for all the great memories they gave to me as an A's fan....and will do the same for Barry.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 28, 2006 3:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Loyalty is dead.
It's not even worth the toilet paper it was wiped on.

To thine own self be true!

"I ain't ever had a job. I just always played baseball."- former A's pitcher Satchel Paige

by The Pilots Dared Me To Die on Dec 29, 2006 9:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is a great signing for A's fans
Here's why:
  1. He was leaving anyway, so since he was leaving where would you rather he go.
  2. I hate the Giants as much as I hate any team...
  3. Now, if you're in the Bay Area like me, you can see Zito pitch for the rest of his career if you want to. You can hear his radio show--an obvious given on KNBR--if you want to. You can read about him as much as ever. Nobody's making you do these things, but you can. He's still around. That's cool.
  4. He's in the NL. He didn't go to Texas or the Angels or even the Yankees.
  5. God bless Barry, but it's a truly awful signing. $18 million a year for seven years. That's a nightmare contract. Does anybody fear the Giants will now be winners because of that contract? They've shown they have limited money to some extent. Well, down the road, that contract will limit them more.

by RLangford on Dec 28, 2006 1:02 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

excellent points, RL
As someone on the oppo side of the Zito/Giants spectrum, I think this is one of the most even-handed "anti" posts today.

But regarding #5, while I agree that the overall $ total is probably higher than it "had" to be, without specific details on (what I would presume to be the likely) backloading of the deal, I don't think we can really say yet whether or just how awful the contract is. If it's significantly backloaded, then the next 2-3 years may just make Z a bargain, and the back end could be under market value if salaries keep escalating. If it's not backloaded and it's a straight $18M per, then, yeah, Z will be overpaid for the next 2-3 years but will be well under market value by the end of the deal.

you corrupt bitches @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 28, 2006 1:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

''Under market value by the end of the deal''
Likely true.  Hell, Loaiza is already under market value, a year after signing, despite having an '06 which confirmed his mediocrity.
"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" --Johnny Rotten

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 28, 2006 2:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree
He was a gonner and I didn't want him in our division, but now I can watch or listen to him whenever I want.  Just not sure yet if I'll be rooting for him to win.  How 'bout . . . he wins 20 games and the other four starters lose 20 (each), that'd be a nice compromise.

And it's kinda nice to see that he's taking all that money from the Giants.  Good for him.  Too bad he won't be seeing a ring anytime soon.

I still can't believe he's a Giant. (I guess I'm still in stage 1.)

"Z did what Z does," said Kendall. "He makes people look bad."

by rcb on Dec 28, 2006 1:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank God
he's with the Gnats! It could be worse if he signed with the Rangers...

Now when I talk about Barry with my Gnat friends I'll have to be more specific, like Barroids, or Z-Man, or Guitar Man, etc...

Sniff, Sniff. "Who Fongpay?"

by Fongpay on Dec 28, 2006 1:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Congrats to Barry, Congrats to A's
I'm glad Barry got all of this money.  He's a great guy and has been a great contributor.

But ...

I'm not bothered at all that he's leaving.  He's just not that good.  He'll beat most of the awful National League teams most of the time, but he'll struggle with average to above average clubs.  In short, his stats will look good, and he'll win some games, but he won't be a difference maker.  The Giants made a real mistake:  who would you rather have, Schmidt or Zito?

And Barry will discover that although San Francisco is an easy market, it is still less forgiving than Oakland.  Next time Barry has one of those games when every 0-2 count ends up running full and he then gets up to 96 pitches in the 5th inning ... the media might actually say something.  And Barry will come to understand that, however forgiving ATT Park may be, there's not a lot of foul territory, the third baseman and second baseman can't catch the ball, and the Giants bullpen is not what the A's bullpens were.  No more Calero to Duke to Street and Barry gets the win.

Remember that Giants fans are still angry at that horrible World Series game 7 pitched by Livan.  Imagine what they will say when Barry pitches a game as important as Game 1 of the Championship Series was against the Tigers ... and doesn't get out of the 4th inning, allowing 7 hits and 3 walks while striking out absolutely nobody.

The Giants over-paid.

by solotar on Dec 28, 2006 1:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

considering Schmidt's age
and increasing injury problems?

I'd sign Zito

by OaklandSi on Dec 28, 2006 1:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bullpen support
The "bad Giants bullpen" comments are interesting.  Yes, the pen was bad in 2006, but it was great just a few years earlier.  Aren't bullpens about the easiest and cheapest part of the team to re-vamp?  Isn't it Beane philosophy that high-priced closers aren't worth the dough?

by achiappanza on Dec 28, 2006 1:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Beane's philosophy is high priced anyone...
..is not worth the dough.

But his other philosophy is that you build your ballclub from the back. Closer, set-up guy, rotation, defense, offense. And that's what got us to the ALCS this season.

Which reminds me, where is Oaktoon? I think we're owed some apologies.

"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 28, 2006 1:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Zito signed a seven-year deal?
The Giants are about 7 years away from contending.
VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Dec 28, 2006 3:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Two words for Zito: Armando Benitez.
Oh man, I totally forgot about the Giants defense... Zito is gonna feel some PAIN having those guys behind him (particularly those fly balls that will fall in LF).

On the upside for him, getting rid of Felipe was the best thing the Giants could have done for their bullpen. The closer spot seems cursed, but their middle relief will be a hell of a lot stronger without Felipe physically ripping off guys' arms. Despite the lack of Duke's awesomeness.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 28, 2006 10:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Alou
Yeah, Alou wasn't working out anymore. I think Bochy will do well there.

by apilgrim on Dec 28, 2006 10:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely, Bochy seems like a solid manager.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 28, 2006 10:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

not even addressing
the whole villainizing-of-Zito, which is nothing but absurd, the more-interesting question here is whether this was or was-not  a good signing for the Giants, and how it affects the ongoing A's-Giants competition for fans.  I'm sure most here will argue that it was a bad signing, that we're all lucky to follow a team with a smarter GM who can actually practice fiscal resraint even as the rest of baseball splurges as it never has before.  

But on the other hand, it was very recently that  Blez wrote to express his frustration with the A's difficulties in expanding their fan base (The Replacements).  Why don't the A's get more respect from casual fans?  Well, casual fans just saw the A's pulling their pockets inside-out while the Giants signed their free-agent pitcher to a big money deal.  Now if only casual fans would read Moneyball, then they might understand that the A's philosophy will keep them competitive in the long-term, bla bla bla.  But the casual fans didn't read Moneyball, and so to them the A's just look cheap. Hell--they ARE cheap, that's part of the Moneyball phiilosophy.  Thank god it works, or we wouldn't have any fans at all.

"WTF is wrong with you people TASTELESS COMMENTS. I'm disgusted. Mocking a 10 year old's horrible painful death." --eshock

by rubin sierra on Dec 28, 2006 1:27 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Well . . .
Hopefully I can find a cheap A's "Zito" jersey now, and get to snipping away at the name/number on the back, and then have a nice new jersey.
"It's never 'just a game' if you're winning" - George Carlin

by bluelightrain84 on Dec 28, 2006 1:33 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Meh.
"Come on, you douche bags, we're all on the same team!"

by Jennifer on Dec 28, 2006 1:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

no trade clause?
according to the following blog Zito has a complete no trade clause. However, I was unable to find any corroboration.

http://www.mlb4u.com/rumor.php?order=date&spec=DESC

by OaklandSi on Dec 28, 2006 1:41 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Which just means..
...they'll have to get his permission to ship him off to the Yankees when he's 32.
"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 29, 2006 1:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Question
Have we ever had a relatively good player stay in Oakland for his entire career?

Chavvy and Swish the closest we have right now, but skimming through my mind at A's legends... Rickey, Eck, McGuire, Reggie... it seems like we've never had one guy who has played out his entire career in Oakland. I know this is an extreme rarity that has basically died since Ripken, Gwynn and free agency. But it feels ten times as rare for us.

HOW 'BOUT THEM COWBOYS?!?!

by JLaff on Dec 28, 2006 1:43 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

A's used to have the highest payroll
in mlb, but that doesn't ensure that a player stays with one team for his whole career. It was of course very common before free agency.

by OaklandSi on Dec 28, 2006 1:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I heard about this on
FOX News, from all places.  I was going out to lunch and was listening to the news on the radio at 12 PM.  

"... storm in Denver... blah blah blah..."

".... Saddam Hussain... blah blah blah..."

"The Barry Zito Sweepstakes... <Held my breath, expecting to hear the Yankees> .... San Francisco Giants...."  <Sigh of relief>

I'm not upset by this.  At all.  

I had been preparing myself for this moment all year long.  Maybe the pollyanna in me was still wishing that Zito would be back in green and gold, but the realist in me knew better.  

I'll still get to watch Zito pitch.  If anything, I'll get to watch more Zito starts on tv than ever before.  Plus, when Zito has one of those starts where he can't find the K zone, it wouldn't bother me as much.  

Good luck to you, Z!  Thanks for the memories.  

by AsGirl on Dec 28, 2006 1:49 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

exactly
rip 2006, it was nice while it lasted.

by ak_A on Dec 28, 2006 2:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Giants fans kill me
It's just the fact that when Zito goes up agaisnt anyone my friends, mostly Giants fans, say we have no shot. I was told our ace was no schmidt and Zito is overrated. In a matter of minutes this has all changed. Un-believable. No I just wish I had it all documented. Than again, I'd be a schmidt fan if he were an A but also, I always knew he was good.

by Spidz34 on Dec 28, 2006 1:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

That's human nature
You wanna see reversals... look at Dodger board opinions of Zito before and after the signing.

by achiappanza on Dec 29, 2006 12:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

it's fine with me
the only question is will Z still busk for change at Fisherman's Wharf?  Kinda hard to busk for change when you're making $18 million a year.

I wonder how he'll fit in personality-wise over there... it's not exactly a fraternity, that clubhouse.

Do we really need an excuse for more cellphone usage at baseball games?

by emperor nobody on Dec 28, 2006 2:06 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Has anyone else had trouble working
today?  I'm angry, depressed, and happy for the guy all in some rotating cycle.
Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Dec 28, 2006 2:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I gave up already.
Bring on the beer.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 28, 2006 3:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What about LAUGHTER...
Laughter: Watching Barry take his 2-3 "dear-in-the-headlights" at-bats per game.

I hope he works on his bunting this Spring.

Good Luck and Best Wishes Z!!

by FlagsFlyForever on Dec 28, 2006 2:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

That is gonna be FUNNY...
I've long held that the reason the DH was invented was because a psychic predicted the coming of Barry Zito, bringer of the Gnarliest Stance Ever, in order to protect the world from the sight of him in the batter's box.

It is gonna be funny as HELL to see.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 28, 2006 3:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

HOLY CRAP!!
Amongst the fog I've been in all day and the conflicting emotions, I totally forgot that Z has to bat now...PRICELESS!!! I'd love to see him out hit Bonds...not that that would happen, but it's nice to dream isn't it?
"If this ends up being my last year here, I just want the fans to know how much I love them, too...Thanks for everything." Barry Zito

by athleticsgirl24 on Dec 28, 2006 4:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How much did the Giants overpay?
By which i do not mean whether Barry is worth that much.  What i am asking is what do you think his next best offer was, and why did the Giants top it by so much?  I was kinda mystified when they had no competition for Bonds and gave him so much. Now they had competition but why go so much higher?
Or, where the other teams' offers close?  Maybe we'll never know.

by danh on Dec 28, 2006 2:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Mychael Urban said today
that it was the guaranteed seventh year that really sealed the deal.

by OaklandSi on Dec 28, 2006 2:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Two offers are known
The Texas offer was very public -- $84 million for six years ($14m/yr) The Mets are reported to have offered $75 million for five years ($15m/yr).

San Francisco's offer of $126 for seven years (=$18m/yr) added a year and beat the annual salary.

Texas wasn't going any higher.  We don't know if the Mets would have gone higher, and we don't know how much Seattle was prepared to offer.

$18 million for one year is what Roger Clemens got last time round, the highest a pitcher has been paid for a single year so far.  The Zito offer may have been designed to match that rate.

"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Dec 29, 2006 12:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Incredible part of this deal
is that Boras is really negotiating next years deals today.  He just dropped the hammer on the Mets.  Can you imagine the media tizzy and the fury that the front office is going to be subjected to by all those NY fans?  They were positive Zito would be a Met in 2007.  Wait till Boras is representing Santana in 2009 and he mentions to one of the NY teams that their offers aren't good enough for his client.  Who even knew SF was bidding for Zito's service?  They are going to remember the drubbing they got over the Zito affair and are going to wildly overpay.  I imagine the next deal is going to make this one pale in comparison.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Dec 29, 2006 1:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

holy sh*
just heard the news.  did not expect that...oh well, can follow him with more positive vibes, as shade above benighn, since he with NL team Giants or not.
rip 2006, it was nice while it lasted.

by ak_A on Dec 28, 2006 2:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Fools
I heard this and my main reaction wasn't one of disgust or anger... it was more incredulity.  Are you kidding me?

Pac Bell is probably the absolute best park for him (if his OF-ers can step up), but durability is not worth $18 dollars a year.

by dchu on Dec 28, 2006 2:43 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

whatever
"I almost landed in some lady's lap, which was kinda fun.'' -- Swish

by Sharon on Dec 28, 2006 2:44 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I've been trying to figure out
all day what I have to say about the signing, and finally Sharon has put it to words: Whatever.

Sums it up beautifully for me.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 28, 2006 2:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Feh
That's how I feel about her "Meh".
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 28, 2006 7:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're a bad meh-feh, Nico
you corrupt bitches @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 29, 2006 1:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Zito Gone
Well...Zito went across the Bay. At least he did not go to a team in the AL West and especially the New York Yankees (Imagine Zito in those Yankee pin stripes). The Giants over paying him $18 million a year is due to the market value. Just look at this year's crazy, insane market where Gil Mecehe and Jeff Suppan (both sub par/mediocre pitchers) both make around $10-11 million dollars next year (What a complete joke!).
Now he's gone and we know Beane has done and will do his best to make the A's not only a playoff contender, but more importantly, a contender for the  W.S.

by replyto317 on Dec 28, 2006 2:49 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

a few thoughts...
as a Dodger fan I am upset... not because I fear Zito as a pitcher so much as I'm really sick of the Giants getting younger guys and guys that I actually like. It makes it harder to hate them so much. (not impossible, but harder)

as an A's fan I'm just kind of whatever about it. I knew he'd be gone so it's not shocking at all. Good for him for getting so much damn money and being able to live in the same place.

as a baseball fan I just kind of find it funny that a team would pay that much for anyone. And then that it's Zito is just sort of hilarious. I mean yeah he can be AMAZING sometimes, and I'm really greatful for everything that he did while he was on the A's, but all it takes is the umpire to not call his curveball a strike and he has basically nothing.

It should be interesting.

"I never saw a hooligan I did like. They're like left-handed pitchers, they all have a screw loose somewhere." - The Asphalt Jungle

by drmmerchk on Dec 28, 2006 3:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'm happy as a crab!
I've always been a Giants fan, too, through the awful 70's and 80's, and I like Barry a lot. This is the second best place he could have ended up- and I'm just glad that my #1 team didn't cough up the ridiculous dollars. But I'm pulling for Barry to get his NL rings and a ticket to the HOF. Maybe his plaque could have one of those awful half A's half Giants hats we used to see during the Bay Bridge series back in the day.

Congrats to Barry. We'll see you in, what, June?

-MVK

by mvk on Dec 28, 2006 3:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It's going to be really
awkward the next time Magowan and Fisher bump into each other at the Bohemian Club.

by southofcruiseamerica on Dec 28, 2006 3:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Think about it.
You're paying a guy that much money who's going to pitch a game once every five days and he's probably not even in the top ten category for starters in either league.  Amazing.

by Salvatore on Dec 28, 2006 3:56 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah and who'd
want him anyhow, now, with that kinda contract.

by Salvatore on Dec 28, 2006 4:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Zito...
When i first heard the news seeing the headline on TV, i was shocked and just turned it off. I'm thinking, "How could Zito do this???" I, personally, hate the Giants (mainly cause of the giants-based media and barry bonds like a lot of a's fans i presume) and don't know what to think now. Should i still cheer on Zito or boo him?

Btw, along with a ton of people, i agree that Zito got way overpaid. Do i see another Mike Hampton coming?

by swisherroks33 on Dec 28, 2006 4:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hampton
Hampton fell apart pitching in Denver... there's only limited shame in that.

Zito's going to another pitcher's park.

by achiappanza on Dec 28, 2006 4:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

According to
Baseball reference, Mike Hampton is the most similar pitcher by age to Zito-for like 3 years 26-28.

by apilgrim on Dec 28, 2006 9:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha...
I don't know what I think about this yet. Most of me won't miss him, the part of me that's nostalgic probably will. However, I'm getting such a kick out of reading all the different thoughts from others, especially on the SFGate "The Splash". Check my new sig!:
"$18 mil for 200+ inings, 15+ wins, and a sub 4.00 ERA with no arrests. Fair deal." ~some Giants fan

by Elvez on Dec 28, 2006 4:32 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

LOL
was the next best offer the rangers at $80 million?  did the giants really go 46 mil over the rangers?

$7 million buyout and full no trade clause:

"Zito's agreement, reached late Wednesday night, includes an $18 million option for 2014 with a $7 million buyout that could increase the value to $137 million. The option would become guaranteed if Zito pitches 200 innings in 2013, 400 combined over 2012 and 2013 or 600 combined from 2011-13. Zito also has a full no-trade clause."

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 28, 2006 4:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

not-so-bold prediction
when the giants are trying to trade him in 5-6 years, zito will only agree to the trade if the other team picks up his option year.  
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 28, 2006 4:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

$38 million over the rangers
$51 million over the mets

according to this post at mccovey chronicles:
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/comments/2006/12/28/13203/608/87#87

"the Rangers made it fairly clear they weren't going to go higher than 6 years/$88 million and the Mets were offering more money but a shorter contract (somethling like 5 years/$75 million). Who knows what Boras said to them -- and this is simplifying how the negotiations probably went -- but apparently the Giants outbid the closest team by $38 million."

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 28, 2006 5:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Neyer had it right
This is just a ridiculous overpayment. It boggles the mind what the fuck they are thinking. I mean the Cubs with Soriano is one thing, but that overpaid guy isn't a pitcher. Zito's track record nonwithstanding, he still pitches, and so he is still much more prone to a breakdown. Seven years to a pitcher is crazy. $18 million a year makes it doubly crazy.

What the hell do they think they're buying? Franchise stability? Future pennants? Roger Clemens in his prime? Barry won't win any Cy Youngs. He won't be Santana or Pedro or Halladay? He'll be some approximation of the average of his last three years. That's pretty likely. Ask yourself what that's worth. And ask yourself how you felt this last year every time Barry took the hill. You felt good, but you never felt like you had a pitcher going who would dominate. Even Barry's great start against the Twins in the ALCS wasn't dominant.

by RLangford on Dec 28, 2006 7:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Against Twins in ALDS, that is
His start in the ALCS wasn't exactly worthy of the current contract.

by RLangford on Dec 28, 2006 7:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

over the next eight years
i think zito's W-L will probably be between .500 and 5-10 games above .500.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 28, 2006 9:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

some players that leave the A's...
i instantly hate, some i still like somewhat such as Miguel Tejada..sure he mad some bonehead defensive plays and swung at too many pitches out of the zone...but he was clutch, i remember when the A's won over 20 straight games a few years back he won at least 2 or 3 at the end of the game..also he really wanted to stay w/ the A's but management did want to pay him what he deserved with Bobby Crosby ready to step up to the big leagues.
Hate List:
Jason Giambi
Reggie Jackson
Johnny Damon
Frank Thomas(still respect him greatly but he should have stayed with the A's since they offered him only slight less, rejuvanated his career and gave him a shot at a true WS title(05 w/ the Sox doesn't count)
Dotel(jsut cuz he sucked for us)
Zito(the 1st time i see him in a giants uni...ill never give him respect)

Still fan off:
Miggy
Hudson
Mulder...if he is willing to sign a frank thomas type deal..id love to have him back
Dye
Ricky Henderson...despite flipping between many teams and resurfacing w/ the A's..always liked his play and believe hes the best leadoff hitter in recent history

by AthleticsFanatic4ever on Dec 28, 2006 4:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

frank offered 'only slightly less'??
that's just retarded
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 28, 2006 5:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ok fine...
im being a little close minded...ya the A's weren't willing to put up an offer near the BJays...but the Big Hurt certainly could have took a pay cut for the reasons i stated plus not playing on a astro turf field

by AthleticsFanatic4ever on Dec 28, 2006 5:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and that's fine
when you're frank thomas in some alternate universe, you can make that decision to stay with the a's for the reasons you stated.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 28, 2006 5:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

in my alternate universe ...
... Frank Thomas has wheels.
you corrupt bitches @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 28, 2006 5:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

so alternative universe thomas
is less rubenesque and more ruby-esque?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 28, 2006 5:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

more Segwayesque
I was being literal (and also making a Ralph Wiggum reference).
you corrupt bitches @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 29, 2006 1:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If he had wheels..
..the Giants would have given him $32m a year.
"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 29, 2006 1:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I am glad that he...
will be in the Bay area...and that we can still watch him. More power to him for landing a huge contract.

Good luck to you, Barry, and thanks for your service to the A's.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 28, 2006 5:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Amen
Baseball is life. . . at least that is what my sweatshirt says.

by 0R0H0E on Dec 28, 2006 9:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

sbnation quote of the year nomination
this one is going in the sig:
"Four years at $16M to $20M isn't the end of the world. It's a drastic overpayment, but it isn't a franchise killer."
Grant on Zito 12/26/06

http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/story/2006/12/26/165711/79

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 28, 2006 5:46 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don't hate this signing
I get it. There is A LOT about it that makes sense. If you are a fan of the man, then really it couldn't have worked out better. He will be around a lot, he will get a lot of coverage, you will get to see every start (even those mid-week day games) and he is not on a "rival" team, persay.

I am just sad. It is going to be really strange watching him pitch in something other than Green and Gold. That is where my heart is now. I have moved to acceptance, it is a sad state. But I am a Zito fan, so in a sick way, I couldn't be more pleased about this. If the A's can't have him, then at least I still get to see him pitch, even if it will end up being a loss! ;)

"This is the best hug in the major leagues, right here!" - Swisher Pics

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Dec 28, 2006 6:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

well
I can't say I really have any strong feelings about this one way or another, other than surprise. But there will be some sweet revenge now: my brother and his friend, both Giants fans, have enjoyed insulting Zito in every way, shape, and form for the past few years... some, not all, was justified. Now it's their turn. Fun for them.

by whiteshoes40 on Dec 28, 2006 7:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'm glad I will get to see him!
I was very glad when I heard he signed with the Giants. He had no chance of signing with the A's (not his fault we don't have enough cash).
As an A's fan who attends alot of games, I will see the Giants about 6 times, so I will get to see Curveball Boy allowing home runs and giving free passes to our guys!
Will he wear #75?
AT&T Park is a good park for him and the NL is better for him. Look what happened to Randy Johnson in NY.
The Giants are going nowhere. I thought Zito said he wanted "multiple World Series rings". Not on the Giants, Bud.
I will always remember him coming up big against Johann Santana in Game 1 of the 2006 ALDS. Us A's fans have that 3 game sweep against the heavily favored Twins to remember forever. We broke the 9 clinching game losing streak in dramatic fashion, and the East Coast biased national media had to give the A's some respect.
And then Zito laid an egg in the ALCS.
The Giants won't even go to the postseason anytime soon.

by eriklovestheathletics on Dec 28, 2006 7:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

So , if you're out there
struggling just trying to make ends meet,  and you're hearing about all these bloated ridiculous contracts that'll ultimately drive tickets prices further from the reach of, not only families, but also maybe yourself--how does that make you feel, today?

by Salvatore on Dec 28, 2006 7:44 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hah
I don't think for a second that costs drive ballpark prices.  I think it's entirely about what the market will bear.

by achiappanza on Dec 29, 2006 12:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah?
Well, the "market" has no conscience or no type of morality and everything will always be available to the wealthier. Get my drift?

by Salvatore on Dec 29, 2006 4:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm trying to avoid
using the simple "G " word--greed.

by Salvatore on Dec 29, 2006 4:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a free market
guy, too, but recognize it's abuses--which are becoming more evident by the day when it comes to--especially baseball.

by Salvatore on Dec 29, 2006 5:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Money follows money
The players are getting paid the big bucks because the owners have it to spend.  The owners have more to spend because of things like TV contracts.  Now I would certainly be happier if the owners used that extra money to LOWER ballpark prices and keep player salaries the same, but that has never happened.  If the income is there, I'd just as soon that they share it with the players... that's better than owners just banking that extra money and keeping the fans quiet about salaries.

by achiappanza on Dec 29, 2006 8:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...
... and that's why you see corporations in the seats and not very many living, breathing fans who actually care about baseball.

Yeah, capitalism ROCKS. As long as corporations cannot be considered people.

Wait a minute- this isn't the Supreme Court forum, is it? Moving on....

by mvk on Dec 29, 2006 8:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you nuts?
Baseball attendance is at a record high!  

by achiappanza on Dec 29, 2006 8:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course it is
...because it's not paychecks that are buying tickets, it's stockholders.

Tell me how many people are buying tickets out of their own pockets, with their own money, and compare that to 25 years ago.

by mvk on Dec 29, 2006 9:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

must be nice
"He's so young still, and he's so durable," Ellis said. "If I was a team going to give money to someone, it would be to him. I don't see anything wrong with Barry getting that much. Give money to someone who's going to go out there every fifth day."

must be nice to work every 5th day and get paid $18 million a year! :)

by gotgreen on Dec 28, 2006 9:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Every fifth day
is how often he starts.  He's still working on the other four days.

But yeah, to work every day and get paid $18 million a year -- still must be nice.

"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Dec 29, 2006 12:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There are two great Universal Truths
that should be steadfast in the baseball universe.  

1.) The A's will contend for a championship every season.  If they are in a re-building phase, it's generally understood that that is not an euphamism for "we suck, and we don't care" by management.

2.)  The Giants will forever be consigned to an empty WS trophy case.

Does the Zito signing by the Giants further one of the two truths above?  Why yes, yes it does.  Here's to the Giants being financially hamstrung for the next few seasons!

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Dec 28, 2006 9:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Great, Frustrating A's Career
Zito's A's career was brilliant at times, but despite the Cy Young, remains to me a bag of 'what ifs' and 'if onlys.'

In my mind, his A's career can be summed up in his last home start, game 1, ALCS vs Detroit.

He mows down the first 8 in the line-up, looks unhittable, dazzling the crowd and giving A's fans the feeling of invincibility.  Then the #9 guy steps in.  Brandon Inge.  Falls behind 2-0.  Then Bam.  Over the fence.  He then gives up a double, RBI, confidence shaken, game over.

I loved the guy and wish him the best.  Thanks for all the good times, despite the frustrations.

by CrazierthanYOU on Dec 28, 2006 10:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

he's
still one of the best, he was it or miss the last three years as an A's player and I can't remember the last time a 7 year deal (for a picther) went that well. Good luck on the other side of the bay, hopefully he won't regret his decision.
"Talk about impressive. My point is this: Break's over."- Josiah Bartlet

by doublehustle22 on Dec 28, 2006 11:06 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Thoughts on the Zito deal
  1. Barry Zito is a good pitcher.  He's not going to be a Mike Hampton disaster.  Sometimes, as we've all seen over the years, when the curve is working and umpire is calling it, Zito can be a dominant pitcher.  By signing him, the Giants improved their team.  
  2. The contract is ridiculous.  Seven years for a pitcher?  At $18 million a year?  I really never imagined he would get that much, even after some of the other pitchers got absurd deals.
  3. I was reminded, the other day, of what drives me nuts about Zito.  In the Chronicle interview, he starts talking about how the team was too satisfied with beating the Twins in the playoffs and that he, too, lacked intensity against the Tigers in the ALDS.  
You've got to be kidding me.  Zito was our #1 starter, pitching for the pennant for the first time, and he's not jazzed about it?  And then, as outlined above, he fell apart following the Inge home run and followed it with his usual round of excuses about being too fine.
  1. I will miss Zito's good health, and my general feeling that he would give the team a chance to win in almost every game.  I will miss the pretty curve and his generally cool vibe.  Zito has been part of the A's revival, and it will be strange, however expected, for him to be gone.
  2. I will not miss the irritating pitch count watch.  Oh, it's the second inning and Zito has already thrown 37 pitches, even though the game is scoreless.  That drove me nuts.
  3. Zito should do well in the National League, at least at first.  Their hitters haven't seen him as much, and AT&T Park seems perfect for him.  The Giants are struggling now, but are almost always a playoff contender.  And once in the playoffs, you know, it's a crapshoot.
  4. Scott Boras earned his money.  Zito stayed out of Texas and New York, places that wouldn't have worked for him.  Instead, he remains on the West Coast AND gets paid an absurd amount of money by a team that overbid to get a pitcher who is unlikely to ever match his early-career success.
  5. I don't really understand the bitterness.  We all knew this was coming.  And even if the A's could have matched the offer, would you really have wanted Beane to do so?

by bear88 on Dec 28, 2006 11:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Nice post
This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.
A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 29, 2006 4:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Front page poll...
...needs another option, because none of the options apply to me...

I'll be in mourning for several days, maybe months.  No, not really.  I liked watching him pitch for the A's.  But I expected him to be gone, and I didn't have that big an attachment to him for me to "mourn."

Meh, who cares?  I'll probably vote this, but I appreciate Zito enough to feel more than shrugging my shoulders.

Traitor. He's dead to me.  Absolutely not.  Him staying in the Bay Area is no shock to me (outside of the the Giants seemingly coming out of nowhere in the bidding).

I'd vote "Good for you, Z.  Thanks for the memories, and good luck."  Or something like that.

"So, whatever, Ozzie." -- Nick Swisher

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Dec 29, 2006 7:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to see another option, too
"Awesome. Best possible outcome." I'm absolutely thrilled. If we can't afford Barry, I'm glad the Giants can and that he stays in the Bay Area. I was almost 4 when Vida Blue went to SF, and I will always think of him as a Giant as a result. But I will always remember Barry's time with the A's, and I'm thrilled that we may have another player who represents the whole Bay Area. Especially an off-kilter guy like Zito.

I'm incredibly interested to see how Bonds reacts to being the second-highest paid player named Barry on his team. Think Zito can get Bonds to go drop some acid with him?

As an aside, the Giants were responsible for the most positive encounter I've ever had with the police. I think it was '78, I would have been 5, and the Giants issued a special set of baseball cards that you could only get from the police. I got my grandpa to take me to the Hayward PD to get a set. I remember opening the envelope and the first card I saw was Rob Andrews. Those were lean times for the Giants, but they had Vida and they had Stretch. Now, if I show up at the police department, I'm more likely to end up in Guantanamo than get a set of baseball cards. My, how times have changed....

The A's, as much as I love them, have never kept their players around long enough. About the only guy we could name anything after at the new park is Rickey Henderson- and how well would that go over with some of you? I don't just root for the color or the logo, I root for the players, and it's been a rough go the last 30 years, every time you get attached to some player, they're gone, whether it's Rickey or Carney (who they should have had from the beginning) or Hendu or the Bash Brothers or Stew or Giambi or Zito or Huddy... you get the picture. At least we have Chavez- but as good as he is, I'm tired of the "potential" and I want to see that 35 HR, 120 RBI, .300 Gold Glove season everyone says he's capable of. And I want to see someone wear the green and gold every single day of his career. I want us to have a Brett, or a Yount, or a Biggio, or a Yaz.

Does anyone know which player has played the most games for the Oakland A's who never played for another franchise? I'm curious.

by mvk on Dec 29, 2006 8:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

different reactions
 I already knew he was gone, too bad he's on a team I can't root for, but at least he won't be in the AL and we'll still get to see him around.

 My 8 year old son, on the other hand...when I got home from work he looked so sad...

by vk on Dec 29, 2006 8:03 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

that's the biggest weakness of the moneyball
philosophy: explaining to 8 year old kids that they should be rooting for the name on the front of the uniform and not overvalued declining superstars.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 29, 2006 10:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mixed feelings
I have very mixed feelings about the signing:

Positives:

  1.  I knew he was gone and am happy that he is not going to a team in the AL West
  2.  He will still be in the Bay Area media scene so although he will be gone, he won't really be gone.
  3.  I am glad to know that the Giants way overpaid for a pitcher whose skills have been deteriorating and will not be worth Gaudin money by the end of the contract.
  4.  I think this improves the change that the Mets will rekindle talks for Joe Blantion.  It sounds like the Mets are willing to back up the loading van for Blanton.
Negatives
  1.  I have always been a Zito fan and hate to see him go to a team I detest (not as much as the Yankees, but still detest).
  2.  On a baseball purist level, I can't stomache giving any pitcher, even a Johan Santana a 7-year contract. Like the Dodgers' Kevin Brown signing, the Giants will regret the signing in two or three years if not before

by FanfromTexas on Dec 29, 2006 3:41 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'll take the Zito jersey!!!
Is five bucks enough?  If it's in good shape I would even pay ten.

This is  a serious offer!

(I browsed through very quickly, but did not see another offer...)

Bill James on Duane Kuiper: "It's absolutely incredible that a player this bad could be given 3000 at bats in the major leagues." -- Baseball Abstract, 1982

by blueconversechucks on Dec 31, 2006 6:29 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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