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My OAKLAND A's

I am first and foremost an Oakland A's fan.

I'm also an A's fan and a fan of the game of baseball but those are secondary.

The biggest reason that my devotion to the A's has been as absolute as it has been is because I have seen it as an extension of my loyalty to my city and my identity. I am an Oaklander. That's where I was raised and lived the majority of my life and it defines who I am. I am presently an Oaklander who lives in Sacramento, I have previously been an Oaklander who lives in LA and in the future I think I may be an Oaklander who lives in New York or Boston.

Star-divide

I love the city of Oakland. I love the people of Oakland. I love how they have affected me and the person I have become because of them. I love the A's because they are a part of that. Oakland is an underdog city, in the shadows of San Francisco and having to overcome the realities of being populated by people who are not just God's gifts to corporate America. Oakland is a real city full of real people, who make Oakland their home and become the city and let the city become them. To me the A's have always represented that. They have been an underdog team. They have been a team with character and identity and a team that represented and was truly a part of the community. They were truly the team of players like Stew, Rickey and Reggie, who were born here and made their lives here. The teams were families -- even if they were sometimes the family that fought -- and they were a central part of Oakland's family.

The Fremont A's are better than the Giants. I'll still root for them but it won't be the same. I don't mind driving an extra twenty minutes. It's not that at all. I live in Sacramento and I suspect I can get to Fremont faster than Oakland. It's also not ticket prices. My income has increased sufficiently over the years that I'll still be able to afford to go to all of the games that I have time for.

It does feel, though, that my loyalty was built on a lie. I have had such a strong allegience to the team because I thought they were a major part of my home and my community. Now they are telling me they are not. They will not be Oakland's team any more -- now they are going to be Fremont's.

As the Oakland A's, our relationship seemed reciprocal. I let them be a part of me -- and by taking Oakland as their identity, I was also a part of them.

That is no longer the case. Now the only relationship they chose to have with me and the people of Oakland is a financial one.

I know it's a business and my feelings may seem naive. But they are no more naive than the loyalty anyone also other than the owners and players may have for the team. Either your loyalty is based on feelings and experiences like mine has been -- or it's nothing more than brand loyalty -- comparable to Coke v Pepsi. As a kid I was a Pepsi drinker. Now if I drink soda, it's Diet Coke.

I have no plans to switch to the Diet Coke of baseball. I do still have some personal connection with the team. But if they want this to become more of a business relationship than a personal one, I don't think they can or should expect the same loyalty as they have received from people like me.

I've been to several hundred games in my 25 years. I'll probably go to several hundred more but a Fremont A's game just won't be the same.

I understand that many folks have developed their loyalty to the A's based on different experiences and reasons and that's fine. But that's why I developed mine and I suspect a number of my fellow Oaklanders would say something similar. Much of what I was rooting for looks like it is being taken away -- and if you don't have that deeper connection, then you are just rooting for laundry. While those of you from other parts of the Bay, the country or even Canada may not find this move difficult to accept -- your loyalty too is built on something -- that you are not just rooting for laundry. Imagine if that were taken from you. It would almost be as cruel as you not recommending this diary.

Poll
My loyalty will ...
Fire ____ Now!!!
2 votes
Increase Dramatically
5 votes
Increase Slightly
5 votes
Stay the Same
101 votes
Decrease Slightly
41 votes
Decrease Dramatically
21 votes
Disappear
7 votes
Loyalty? I'm only here for the Bud Light
0 votes

182 votes | Poll has closed

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If the name remains Oakland
I'm fine with them playing in Fremont (or anywhere else in the East Bay). But if they lose the Oakland name - even if the new digs do in fact improve the team - then they'll break my heart. I have a hard time imagining not being a fan of the team all my life, however.
"Having a vote for 'most clutch' baseball player is like having a vote for 'most real' monster." - Ken Tremendous

by ArakSOT on Nov 10, 2006 2:26 PM PST reply actions  

Forgot to mention that ...
but keeping the name "Oakland" would make me feel a lot better about all of this.

by devo on Nov 10, 2006 2:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Recommended
Just 'cause I appreciate the quality and tone of the writing.

I was born and raised in Bakersfield. I don't share the same communal ties to Oakland that many on this site have, I always had to road trip it to see a game. It got a little easier for me when I attended UC Davis but I was and always will be a commuter fan. The move to Fremont means absolutely nothing to me, I actually like the fact that the team is moving such a short distance. I was afraid of a much farther move.

So I feel for the folks who will lose that sense of naivete, that innocence lost, when the A's move to Fremont. But I can assure you that there are other ways to love this team just as much as you do now... if you are willing to risk your heart again.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Nov 10, 2006 2:32 PM PST reply actions  

So what caused you to become an A's fan?
LA's a much shorter roadtrip from Bakersfield ... especially before the construction of the 5.

by devo on Nov 10, 2006 2:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Part of it was/is
I hate all things LA. Except for the Lakers, I always liked Kurt Rambis and Kareem's sky hook was a thing of beauty and Magic Johnson was the most amazing player I had ever seen. Besides, I was a basketball fan before I was a baseball fan and I fell in love with the Lakers before I grew to hate LA.

Secondly, by the time I got really interested in baseball the Angels sucked and the A's had the Bash Brothers. The Dodgers actually had "LA" attatched to their name and there was no way in Hell I was going to cheer for a baseball team from Los Angeles.

Maybe that makes me a bit of a front runner but I've stayed loyal to all my teams, no matter how much they sucked.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Nov 10, 2006 5:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Ditto Kareem, Ditto Magic, L A Rams...
...but I was born & raised in Oakland.

I was there when;

  • The A's came in '68. I remember the experts claiming they were over achievers; for 3 World Series in a row?
  • The Raiders WERE Football in 1960-1981 with a seemingly endless parade of Super Bowl winners surviving those Conference Championship games. (L A got them and wrecked them, made them soft, ...another reason to hate LA)
  • The GSWarriors; '75 World Champs and all.
Oakland was the cradle of all that is irreverent; not just the teams either, Home/Origin of:
  • Hells Angels
  • Jack London
  • Black Panthers
  • Robert Louis Stevenson
  • S L A
  • If Lenny Bruce isn't claimed by another area we'll take him, he is a great fit.
  • "Ruthies" was the cradle of West Coast R&B, many notables paid dues there and other East Bay estabs. I remember young Lou Rawls "overnight" success after Ruthies.
  • Jack London Square had Tower of Power blasting it's get up and dance East Bay Grease. Hipper than hip!
  • College of Arts & Crafts had a kid named Zimmerman that became music and Bob Dylan almost simultaineously. Met the non love of his life there too; joan baez.
  • Frank Robby, Young Rickey racing the AM busses to Oakland Technical High School, ReggieJax, Curt Flood the man that "will not go!" resulting in the challenge to MLB that begat Free Agency
  • High School Lunches where the live entertainment included music performed by Santana, Credence, Beau Brummels (Laugh laugh), Malo, ....
  • After school free concerts that included everyone and anyone in music, War, Country Joe, Janis, Grace, Chamber Bros, CCR, Wow! I'm only skimmin' the top here!
  • Billy Graham's "Day on the Green"
  • Governor PAT Brown, Jerry's dad, passing the laws that became the dams and CA aquaduct... that made CA the World's greatest agricultural producer.
I guess what I'm saying is I'm an Oakland A's fan first and last. Oakland, the A's, and I have been through good times and bad and that makes for a timeless bond.

Yes Devo, that ends in a few years, and thanks for this diary and it's sentiments.

The Cisco Kids will have appeal but it is all too similar to what happened to the Raiders when they went to LA. (No offense Grover). They get that greed-stink all over them and they never recover that innocence lost, the irreverence, the naivette.

These qualities cut both ways. Fans and players.
Ask Huddy, Mulder, Tejada, Stew, Rickey, ...and check back with Zito in a couple years,
the money is nice,
and it comes with it's price.

Go A's!
...but how 'bout another title for the Oakland A's, ...before you go?

"Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste." Tug McGraw's plans for his $75,000 salary

by A s Eh on Nov 11, 2006 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

No offense taken
I'd have been really offended if you thought I was in any way, shape or form a Raiders fan.
Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Nov 12, 2006 2:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Well put, A s Eh.
I remember all those things as well.

I was so happy when the A's came to Oakland in 1968. San Francisco had their 49ers and Giants and Oakland had the Raiders--but I wanted a baseball team to call my own and thanks to Charlie Finley for making that happen.

There's still an attachment after almost 40 years but it's been tempered by the Raider move to LA and back. I know anything can happen and a cherished team can leave and even return but things may never be the same again.

So, if the move's to Fremont, a piece of me will be lost as well.

Unfortunately, that's life.

However, any new Fremont stadium will STILL be accessible to me and my family (though not as convenient--we're only two BART stations away now), we'll STILL get local media coverage and be able to follow them closely, and though the name will likely change (ugh!) it'll STILL be the A's.

I hope that they ultimately stay in Oakland but it's better than them leaving the area entirely, IMO.

Moose Tracks?

by Ice Cream on Nov 12, 2006 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah..

...my mom and I were friends with the Valleys when I was growing up.  Gladys Valley once gave me a Raiders t-shirt and a helmet, and I was hooked.  This was when I was in the third grade.  When the immaculate reception occurred, it's still family lore that I went into my room and tore things apart until my mom came in and spanked me.  Deservedly so.

Once the Raiders moved to LA (well past the ownership of the Valleys), I just couldn't give a crap about them.

And when they moved back, there were mixed emotions.  They trashed the coliseum into an unfriendly baseball park, and dammit, they had kicked me in the teeth once before.  I kind of casually follow them now, but the whole experience really unsold me on the NFL.  I just don't care about it.

If the A's move to Fremont, as it appears will happen, even though it's not far, I'll have much of the same feeling.  Let them be the Silicon Valley whatevers.  It just won't be the same.  Not by a longshot.  

I don't find it any fun...No, not any longer. -- Will Shatter

by 66th Hegenberger on Nov 12, 2006 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Bitter, amusing irony
There are still a few City-sponsored banners hanging on 14th Street reading "Oakland Celebrates the A's."  They're right across the street from the more prominent City Raiders banners.
I threw that horseshoe into the weeds to see what luck can bring

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Nov 10, 2006 2:45 PM PST reply actions  

It's a bit ironic
that people are complaining about the move down the road to Fremont.  This is, after all, a franchise that got to Oakland via Philly and Kansas City.  At one time, Oakland was no better than Fremont is now.  At least with this move the fans in the area can still go watch the team play.  You all should consider yourselves fortunate.

by IndianaAsfan on Nov 10, 2006 3:42 PM PST reply actions  

I was born
many, many years after they moved year. Philly and KC make for interesting history, but they aren't part of my experience as an A's or baseball fan.

by devo on Nov 10, 2006 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

No, but
how is your experience any different from KC or Philly fans of the team when it was located there?  My point is, that franchise is just as much a part of the Philly and KC communities as it is a part of the Oakland and Fremont communities.  Your experience is not new, and is no different than fans of any other franchise that has moved.  At one time the Giants played in New York, and that was a time these teams had a much stronger connection to the community than now.  Some of the New York Giant fans never forgave the franchise and switched teams.  That's fine should you so choose, but I hope not - AN would lose an interesting poster.
Even though you've only known the team as the Oakland A's, this is still the third move for the franchise which makes all the angst over this move somewhat ironic to me.  That's not a criticism, just an observation.

by IndianaAsfan on Nov 10, 2006 8:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Fair enough ...
but plenty of folks out there have broken plenty of hearts.

by devo on Nov 11, 2006 10:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: No, but
It's not ironic at all.  Is your point to say "tough shit"?  I don't understand.

Additionally, KC and Philadelphia were always logical markets for major league baseball -- when their teams left, they're going to get another franchise in time.  Oakland won't, thanks to the team's move to the suburbs.

The idea of being an Oakland A's fan resonates with me.  I've been reading posts insinuating that you're not an A's fan if you don't support the move.  Or that you're a fan of Oakland first, and the A's second.  Total BS.  I'm an Oakland A's fan.  

Additionally, as a band manager in the Bay Area, the Silicon Valley represents an awful lot of bad mojo that almost destroyed the soul of this region a few years ago.  If their money lures my favorite team in sports away from my favorite city, then screw them.  First rehearsal spaces close, then clubs, a music scene suffers, and then they take my team from my city?  Screw them.

I don't find it any fun...No, not any longer. -- Will Shatter

by 66th Hegenberger on Nov 12, 2006 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Slow your roll
First, KC was never a logical choice for Major League baseball.  Finley moved the team because he didn't think KC could support a team, and KC doesn't seem to able to now.
Second, I wasn't saying "tough shit."  I was saying it is ironic that Oakland only got the team because two other cities lost it.  That's all.  Nothing more.  If you don't like  it that's your prerogative.  I'm sorry if the drive to Fremont makes life more difficult, but those A's fans in KC have a bit longer of a trip.

by IndianaAsfan on Nov 12, 2006 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

What is all this talk...
...about the "drive to Fremont"?  I don't care about the drive to Fremont, and my guess is that most people against the move don't care about it either.

What's so difficult to understand about hurting because your team moves from your city?

Can we just drop the "sorry if the drive to fremont is so difficult for you" meme?  It's a straw man at best.

I don't find it any fun...No, not any longer. -- Will Shatter

by 66th Hegenberger on Nov 12, 2006 2:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Better to
fight spurious argument with spurious argument.

How about: If you're such an A's fan, move to the Bay Area!

by mikeA on Nov 12, 2006 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Thank you!!
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Nov 12, 2006 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Baseball in Kansas City
It's generally thought that the only reason Kansas City got a team after the Athletics left was due to powerful U.S. Senator Stuart Symington, who threatened to strip MLB of its anti-trust status if it didn't get a new team in pronto.  He would have, too.  MLB granted a KC expansion franchise a few months later.

When Finley moved the A's, Symington famously called Oakland "the luckiest city since Hiroshima."

I threw that horseshoe into the weeds to see what luck can bring

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Nov 12, 2006 3:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I did not know that.

And at this point, I do feel like we're the luckiest city since Hiroshima, but in another sense.

I just don't want my feelings to be found as "ironic" to someone who, for all I know, is a Baltim-, I mean Indianapolis Colts fan.

I don't find it any fun...No, not any longer. -- Will Shatter

by 66th Hegenberger on Nov 12, 2006 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I didn't know that either FSU.
I miss old time ball busting politics.  Stuff got done.  
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Nov 12, 2006 8:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Does anyone ever look at it this way?
"As the Oakland A's, our relationship seemed reciprocal. I let them be a part of me -- and by taking Oakland as their identity, I was also a part of them." -- Devo

When most of us became fans of the team, Lew Wolff wasn't the Managing Partner, Billy Beane wasn't the GM, (insert name here) wasn't the Manager, Curt Young wasn't the pitching coach, Steve Fanelli wasn't in charge of tickets, Mike Crowley wasn't the president, not a single player on the 40-man roster was in the organization, and likely not a single player or coach in the entire system was with the team.

My point is, "WHO" was supposed to be loyal to you, Devo?  The world is made up of people making decisions, and you're making the "Oakland Athletics Baseball Club" into a living breathing entitiy that can make decisions.  It can't, only the people can.

So, if you don't want to be a Lew Wolff fan that's fine.  But don't blame the "Oakland Athletics" for moving.

Hard work never hurt anyone, but I'm not taking any chances.

by Alameda Greg on Nov 10, 2006 3:42 PM PST reply actions  

When did I blame anyone for anything?
I didn't -- not once. I also never asked anyone to be loyal. Baseball is a business and Lew Wolff is making a smart business decision. If anyone, I would blame myself for developing feelings and loyalties that have no place in business.

All I said is that my feelings will change when they move. I'm not bitter, I'm disappointed and saddened. As unhappy as this move may make me. That's not why I wrote this diary. I wrote it because a number of ANers were accusing those of us who are from Oakland and unhappy about this move of being disloyal, lazy and a host of other things. I am none of those. That's what this diary is about.

by devo on Nov 10, 2006 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think you're disloyal at all
I think its just like you said.  You are an Oakland fan first and second you are an A's fan.  

But most A's fans are A's fans and care whats best for the team.  And what is best for the team? Lets face it..we all hate the Yankees and the Red Sox, but secretly we are all a little jelous of them too.  Ya know..sold out on a Monday Night (not a fireworks night), signing MVPs in the offseason to an 8 year 200 million dollar contract, etc.  

This is the type of thing that all baseball owners and fans want for their team. If you can't admit that then you are either lying to yourself or are extremely naive.

by wordfromthewise on Nov 10, 2006 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't really want to have that team ...
though I'm sure Wolff does ...

I'm pretty happy with payrolls of recent vintage. Winning isn't everything. I'd hate to be a Yankee fan. I don't want the best players money can buy. I want the best players we can develop or outsmart other teams to acquire.

I loved my mid 90s A's teams. They didn't have much talent, but they were just as fun to watch and hope sprang eternal ...

by devo on Nov 10, 2006 4:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice
"I'm pretty happy with payrolls of recent vintage. Winning isn't everything. I'd hate to be a Yankee fan. I don't want the best players money can buy. I want the best players we can develop or outsmart other teams to acquire."

I completly agree.  It's a wonderful thing to know you're winning on brains rather than bucks.  I certainly wonder how attached Yankee fans feel to their players since they have the stench of hired guns rather than grown talent. (Yes, I know we have may players who did not come through our farm system, but even the free agents we get don't have that mercenary feel.)

The one bone I tend to pick with the system is the fact that it would be nice to be able to keep more of our homegrown talent.  If the Yankees grow a Jeter, they know he's theirs to keep for as long as they want him.  If the A's grow a Tejada, they know to enjoy him now because he has a shelf life.  That is the one area where I'd relish a higher payroll.  

"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King

by batgirl on Nov 11, 2006 11:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Simply not true
"sold out on a Monday Night (not a fireworks night), signing MVPs in the offseason to an 8 year 200 million dollar contract, etc." mean nothing to me, and I'm not either lying or naive. I prefer having a bunch of likable guys on a fun and successful team delivering exciting season after season. I love rooting for the underdogs.

Neither am I first a fan of Oakland and second an A's fan. I've been first and foremost an Oakland A's fan all my life. If they become the Fremont A's, my enthusiasm will wane somewhat. But there is nothing the A's can do to make me transfer my loyalty somewhere else. I'll stop following baseball before following another team.

What really bugs me are fans telling other fans what true fans are. There are a lot of flavors of fandom ou there.

"Having a vote for 'most clutch' baseball player is like having a vote for 'most real' monster." - Ken Tremendous

by ArakSOT on Nov 10, 2006 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Let me ask you this then
Do you have a better time at the ballpark when there are 10,000 fans there?  Or when the stadium is sold out?  Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I want that stadium packed.  I want as many people as possible to become A's fans in the Bay Area.  I want the Bay Area to love baseball.  I guess for me when I have a passion for something, I want other people to share it with me!  And winning is friggin' important!!  If it wasn't then it wouldn't be exciting!

by wordfromthewise on Nov 10, 2006 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Then why in the world go to see the A's?
just root for George to get luckier than the Mets.
"Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste." Tug McGraw's plans for his $75,000 salary

by A s Eh on Nov 11, 2006 11:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Well put
I think this is well said.
The only thing that has changed, though, is where the team plays it's home games.  The actors are the same, only the venue has changed.  I guess it is an easier pill to swallow for those of us who have to vacation to watch them play home games, though.

by IndianaAsfan on Nov 10, 2006 8:03 PM PST up reply actions  

So how do you feel
About the people who say Oakland has a bad reputation when it comes to crime, poverty, etc.  There has to be a ton of people with money out in Danville, San Ramon, Pleasanton who are a little snobby when it comes to coming to "Oakland" to see a game.  I would think we get alot of those folks coming out on a long term basis with the move to Fremont.

For all of us die hard fans, we know its a perfectly safe place to go see a game but I'm sure Oakland's repuatation hurts attendance to some degree.  

I know anyone from Oakland will defend their city and not want to hear this type of thing, but I'm just wondering if you think that affects attendance at all and if so to what degree?

by wordfromthewise on Nov 10, 2006 3:53 PM PST reply actions  

I'm sure it does.
I have no doubt that this move will help bring out the casual, more affluent fans. I believe this is a very smart business move for the A's. But my loyalty to the team isn't built on smart business.

by devo on Nov 10, 2006 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I feel that the people who think
Oakland has a bad reputation are just like most ignorant people.  They speak of what they don't know, meaning that 90% of them have never set foot in the place.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Nov 11, 2006 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

That's what I mean, yes.
No denying Oakland has a bad reputation.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Nov 11, 2006 11:31 AM PST up reply actions  

But you see it doesn't matter
Why the city has a bad rep. Everyone who is an A's fan knows that it is safe to go to the Coliseum, but there are ignorant people who look at the murder totals in the city and decide that they don't want to go there.  Sure its dumb, but thats not what this question is about.  Its VERY hard to change someone's viewpoint on things like that.  Its alot easier however, to just start over in a new city..

by wordfromthewise on Nov 11, 2006 12:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the fair-weather fan
to whom you refer is going to be put off at least as much, if not more, by the inconvenience of trying to drive to this ballpark.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Nov 11, 2006 12:06 PM PST up reply actions  

True
They might, but I think the public transportation to this park is going to be well thought out possibly with a station at warm springs with a speedy light rail that takes you from BART to the stadium (alot like what the SF airport has)

Besides alot of the people who are too snobby to come to Oakland are probably also too snobby to even take BART.  They are gonna drive no matter what.

by wordfromthewise on Nov 11, 2006 12:12 PM PST up reply actions  

stadium and oakland
the stadium the a's have has nothing to do with oakland.  you might as well be out in a ditch somewhere in kansas because you really could not tell the difference.  There is absolutely nothing around there.  If there was some semblance of oakland that was being lost by moving I would understand this nostalgia, but there is not.  The only drawback to being called fremont A's is that we will sound like a minor league team.  Have to keep Oakland (first priority), San Jose (2nd priority), or at minimum bay area.  If this means we get to keep Swish, Haren, Street, and others in the future I am 100% in favor of the move.

by jasonlbe on Nov 10, 2006 4:19 PM PST reply actions  

Well fuck you.
I never asked you to share my feelings. I frankly don't give two shits if you're in favor of the move.

All I was asking was that folks who aren't as personally affected by this move respect the feelings of others who are. If you're not capable of that well then I have nothing more to say to you.

by devo on Nov 10, 2006 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Banned
Beane's World!! Excellent!!! Rock On, Beane! Rock On, Geren!

by Satchmo22 on Nov 11, 2006 6:52 AM PST up reply actions  

He better not be banned
Devo definetly has a flag coming, but if he gets banned for this obviously strike worthy offense than I'm going to get righteously pissed. No way does he have 2 other strikes to his name.

By the way devo, I think you might as well report yourself for a CGV, you've pretty much offered up a text book example of how to earn a strike.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Nov 11, 2006 7:52 AM PST up reply actions  

What CG did I V?
I'm not gonna argue with you -- but swearing isn't in there and while it certainly wasn't the friendliest comment in the world, I don't see where the violation is.

And as far as I know, I've never gotten a CGV.

by devo on Nov 11, 2006 10:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Swearing is OK
Otherwise I'd have been banned long ago.

"Fuck" isn't a the problem until "you" is added to the equation. That makes it a personal insult (read: personal attack) towards jasonlbe and that is a CGV. I got dinged for a similiar thing.

But I'm reformed now.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Nov 11, 2006 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

No problem
I don't report anyone unless they start talking about really bad things like opera or the Golden State Warriors.

wait a sec...

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Nov 11, 2006 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Much better
after Nurse Ratchet
"Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste." Tug McGraw's plans for his $75,000 salary

by A s Eh on Nov 12, 2006 12:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, that bitch
really helped me out.
Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Nov 12, 2006 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

There's a lot of good eats near the park.
It may not look like the giant's park or some of the new downtown ones, but it is not in a ditch somewhere, it's not in Kansas and if you think that area is similar to either of those htings (I have been both in ditches as well as Kansas and so your ignorance shines through in that statement).  Maybe you have been a little guilty of just going for the game and not giving the area a fair shake.  I have nostalgia for the area.  That you do not is neither a reflection upon nor the fault of anyone else.

by StewFan on Nov 10, 2006 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

he was being sarcastic...
the "ditch in Kansas" line was not intended to be taken literally.
"We don't want haddock and chips, we want cod. In cod we trust." --Ghostigital, the pride of Iceland

by Cutthemullet on Nov 10, 2006 8:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah... I got that...
I saw the sarcasm and addressed it in a manner I believed appropriate to express that the comparison was beyond sarcasm to the point of denegrating the Coloseum site.  That point was real and it is that diss on that perticular part of Oakland that I wished to bring to light and tear away at (indeed, with my own sarcasm).  But that point that JasonIbe made that it was a bad (barron, desolate, <choose your own term>) area with nothing in it was met with disagreement and I believe that he gets that (see a post of his further down the thread).  I wasn't actually believing that the poster thought the two were the same... good Lord, give me a little credit, please...

by StewFan on Nov 11, 2006 7:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Lie?
If your loyality was built on a lie, who lied?  It seems to me that Oakland dropped the ball.  They had first crack at keep the A's but wouldn't step up to the plate.  With the current owner, all they had to do was supply the land and help with the approval process.  The stadium and surrounding facilities.  There is not a more reasonable price to keep a city icon.  Isn't the City of Oakland mostly responsible?  When you chose a sport's franchise to be loyal to one has to realize that ownership will change and one can't expect that new hwners will follow existing procedures to make the tesm successful.  Yet the city's owenership is the city's voter.
Jim

by jarforcefatherofforce on Nov 10, 2006 4:22 PM PST reply actions  

No one. Or I lied to myself ...
depends on how you want to look at it.

The lie is that the A's are a real part of Oakland.

by devo on Nov 10, 2006 4:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Nor are they really Fremont
If the money levels drop too low and they don't come to the Cisco digs...Wolffurban will build another somewhere else.
"Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste." Tug McGraw's plans for his $75,000 salary

by A s Eh on Nov 12, 2006 12:23 AM PST up reply actions  

i think devo is lying about being an oaklander
i've met him a few times and he never once tried to carjack me
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Nov 10, 2006 4:28 PM PST reply actions  

no - he is
I bought some crack from him last time I was in town
"Having a vote for 'most clutch' baseball player is like having a vote for 'most real' monster." - Ken Tremendous

by ArakSOT on Nov 10, 2006 4:31 PM PST up reply actions  

And he's an old-school baseball fan
cos I've seen him buy peanuts to go along with his crack/carjack.
"Even if you know the deck is stacked in your favor, you still have to have the discipline to trust the math and the cojones to go to the ATM." BB

by green star oakland on Nov 10, 2006 4:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Nope!
He doesn't use Ebonics so he couldn't be from Oakland
"Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste." Tug McGraw's plans for his $75,000 salary

by A s Eh on Nov 12, 2006 12:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Moving to Fremont...
[oops, I hit enter too soon]

doesn't even need to be approved by MLB. It is just a change of neighborhood and really a function of the the way municipal boudnaries are defined. Both Yankees and Mets play in New York City  but that is a determined by the way NYC is defined -- 5 counties/boroughs which make up 1 city. Ask the die hard Brooklyn Dodger fans if they would rather have the Dodgers in LA or in Queens?

It is not like they are moving from a location that was identifiable as part of Oakland, like Lake Merritt. IMO, there is nothing distinctiveley Oakland about 66th Ave. Besides the Coliseum left the A's when they crapped it up for the return of the Raiders.

by NoeValley on Nov 10, 2006 4:36 PM PST reply actions  

I'd rather have them in Fremont than Brooklyn ...
and like I've said, I don't blame them for it.

But that's how I feel.

by devo on Nov 10, 2006 4:43 PM PST up reply actions  

while there's nothing particularly Oakland about
66th, East 14th ain't too hard to get to from the park and that's pretty Town-ish.

by StewFan on Nov 10, 2006 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

This all begs the question...
... what is a fan?  Or even more so what is a team?  A collection of players and other people it can't be because that never stays the same for long.  It also can't be an attatchment to a geographical location or a team as an extention of a beloved city because that is fleeting as well.  The game of baseball as an art form could be enjoyed like many art forms are enjoyed - by soaking up many different artists (teams) with an unbiased eye.

Does it merely come down to some colors and two letters?  Is that all it takes?   Count me as disillusioned....

by Chilango on Nov 10, 2006 4:53 PM PST reply actions  

Sorry Devo.
It's ok to grieve ...don't let anyone make you feel bad about doing so.It may hurt for awhile. I hope when you see the beautiful new ballpark that that will help you to start the healing process.

by IM4Oakgal on Nov 10, 2006 5:04 PM PST reply actions  

Excellent post, Devo
Thank you, that read was theraputic.  I believe we share very similar views on this subject.  It'll be okay, homey.  Fremont'll be wierd and it won't be Oakland, but we'll get used to it.  The disillusionment around the Oakland part of "Oakland Athletics" will take some of the bloom off the rose, but I think it will be okay.

Look at it this way, if it helps at all:  The team felt they had to move, and that sucks, but they are not moving that far and maybe some of that is because they couldn't bear to leave completely.  If the team has to move to Fremont to keep from moving to Portland, then that's a lesser evil.  In any event, no move can change what happened here: all the history, the games watched, the championships won, the characters that played under the title Oakland Athletics.  That gets to stay.  It has to stay.  Because it's ours.

by StewFan on Nov 10, 2006 5:08 PM PST reply actions  

It's definitely preferable
to just about anywhere else in the world.

But it ain't Oakland ... and that's just a shame.

And my heart will go on, so to speak. I'm certainly not out shopping for a new team to be a fan of. But real loyalty has to be about more than laundry -- but dammit, if they change that laundry ...

by devo on Nov 10, 2006 5:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, that laundry change is a bitch
I needed to get an authentic away jersey, but this may have accelerated my purchasing clock.  I'll be damned if I get a Fremont/Silicon Valley or even a Bay Area Jersey (I love Oakland, but there are absolutely parts of the Bay I don't wanna rep... I'm lookin' at you Richmond).

I'll keep chanting Let's-Go-Oak-Land, too.  In freaking Fremont.  I do not care.

by StewFan on Nov 10, 2006 5:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't hate on Richmond, man. :-(
We love the A's, too!
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Nov 10, 2006 9:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, okay.
I know that I have an unhealthy disdain for Richmond.  It is not wholly unfounded, but it is not COMPLETELY warranted, either.  I'll stop hating on Richmond.

by StewFan on Nov 11, 2006 7:22 PM PST up reply actions  

nice diary devo
Even though I cannot relate directly, since I was raised in Fremont, I know what you mean.  It WILL be weird no matter what that the A's are not in Oakland anymore even though its the same team, and close enough to still see them play.

Its another stage in life for both you and the A's.  I work with a guy that is from KC and grew up watching the A's but isnt a fan anymore. You never know whats gonna happen in life.    

Best bet is to just remember all the good times you had in Oakland and still love the team no matter what.  

"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez

by pickinmachine on Nov 10, 2006 6:37 PM PST reply actions  

Newbie putting in her 2 cents
VERY passionate folks here.  Did any one ever consider that Fremont may be problematic?  Why there may be an Ohlone indian burial ground out there or something like that to keep them from going to Fremont.  I suggest an alternate plan.  Keep the OAK in the A's and move them to the far east bay in OAK-LEY...lol

by LilAnnieOaktown on Nov 10, 2006 6:40 PM PST reply actions  

Isn't that where the spotted darter salamander
has it's O N L Y habitat?

Wilikers!

"Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste." Tug McGraw's plans for his $75,000 salary

by A s Eh on Nov 13, 2006 6:37 AM PST up reply actions  

To Devo
I like your words and feel your passion.  Being a FAN from way back when in the 70's, I'm partial to Oakland.  Yes, the Coliseum is not a real baseball park, but when players put heart into the game, and are NOT overpaid and overrated players that actually get wins for the team, well, I rest my case.  Of course, that is just a dream of people like me and you.  

by LilAnnieOaktown on Nov 10, 2006 6:45 PM PST reply actions  

Sentimentality is a tricky beast Devo.
I certainly can understand your sentiment.  Is it fair to call it sentiment....or is a better word nostalgia?  Memory has a way of re-chanelling itself as we get older.  At 25 I suppose your memories of the Oakland A's of your youth are still vivid.  It time, we have a way of smoothing over the rough edges, and reshaping some of those memories to suit or wishes, or so it seems to me.  

My question to you is this.  Is it fair that you hold the Oakland A's to a standard you weren't willing to meet yourself?  You yourself have fled the city, be it for noble purposes and pursuits I'm sure.  But none the less, you left also.  And you mention that you are not opposed to the thought of straying even farther from your ancestral roots.  I assume that you intend of relocating yourself with an eye towards improving your lot in life.  Are the Oakland A's doing any less?  While I understand your sentiment towards the Oakland A's, it's my sincere wish that should you find your way back home if a few years with a little Devo of your own, I hope that the two of you pass the time together in a ballpark in Fremont and build a lifetime of memories together.  And perhaps in time, when he or she is much older, they will feel the same way when the new park has reached the end of its usefullness.  

I enjoyed your Diary.  I hope it inspires people to share their memories of the Coliseum and what its passing as a baseball venue means to them.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Nov 10, 2006 7:57 PM PST reply actions  

great post man
"We don't want haddock and chips, we want cod. In cod we trust." --Ghostigital, the pride of Iceland

by Cutthemullet on Nov 10, 2006 8:45 PM PST up reply actions  

A fair reply
<golf clap>
Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Nov 11, 2006 7:48 AM PST up reply actions  

I only moved away 4 months ago ...
I moved to Sac solely to be with the woman I love and would move East because she wants to go there for Grad School. If I were making these decisions by myself, in Oakland I would be.

But I do know that the A's are simply trying to improve their lot in life and I don't begrudge them that. I think it's a smart move on their behalf -- but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Funny thing is, while my parents were A's fans to begin with and took me to a couple of games each season -- their fandom took off because mine did, when I was old enough to go to games on my own. But I'll certainly take my little Devos to the games and give them the opportunity to develop the passion. There's not much chance that they'll be living in Fremont, though, so that part likely won't be nearly as personal.

by devo on Nov 11, 2006 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Why is it that every really bad thing that happens
to a man usually involves a woman?  Of course, all of the really great things that happen to a man also usually involve a woman.  Some are transitory experiences that last a few hours or so while others take on a more permanent nature!  Apparently you have fallen victim to one of the more permanent experiences.  

I wouldn't write off the prospect of domestic bliss in the fair city of Fremont so quickly.  Kids have a way of changing ones point of view with a vengence.  Risks that one accepts for oneself become completely unacceptable when they involve your progeny.  Even the ridicously remote risks.  

Maybe one day you will return to the Bay with your brood and a big wad of cash.  Perhaps you will find yourself sitting on your condo deck overlooking the ballpark and watching the game while trying to corner a three year old with an infant throwing up on your shoulder.  Good times.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Nov 11, 2006 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Your post
wonderfully sums up so many things. Thank you.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Nov 10, 2006 10:31 PM PST reply actions  

MY Oakland A's
Nobody asked me but MY Oakland A's are built around an idea.  The idea that good management can produce good teams, and every single little thing isn't about the almighty buck.  I was in Maine a few weeks ago and a caller called on a radio show complaining that the Red Sox spend enough, they should be in the playoffs every year.  And the radio host agreed!?!?!  Spend the most = win the most in a lot of people's minds.  I just laugh thinking about how many millions the Yankees have spent since their last World Series Championship.  Money helps, but having a plan is great for getting wins too.

The A's franchise is rich with history, another thing I love about the A's.  I love to hear about the Philly A's of '29-31, and I feel like our A's now are baseballically (a Bill King-ism) have those guys as ancestors.

Those swashbuckling A's of the 70s are another era that you just can't help but love.

The other thing that makes me go crazy about the A's is looking at them.  I just love the green and gold.  I love the font of the jerseys, I love when they break out the yellow jerseys every once in a while.  I'd just hate to see any of it change.  The dark green tops, the grey tops the white tops, all beautiful to me.

I have seen a ton of great games at the Coliseum in the last 7 years.  It is not the worst park to watch a game in.  But that huge Mt Davis thing in center is fairly weird to look at.  Many years just when the games start to really have meaning, the field goes to shit from the Raiders games.  If the team thinks they need a new park, well maybe they need a new park.  If the park is 23 miles south of the current park, well, it makes a little difference, not a big difference.  I'd like to keep them called the Oakland A's.  It just sounds perfect.

by barryzitoforever on Nov 10, 2006 11:24 PM PST reply actions  

Has there been any indication
regarding Wolff's opinion on keeping the "Oakland" name?  That makes all the difference in the world to me ... as long as they remain the "Oakland" A's, I have no problem with the move.  Changing the name "changes" everything.
VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Nov 11, 2006 6:54 AM PST reply actions  

Ich bin auch ein Oaklander
(though only since relocating here in '84).  I agree with many of the points you make... thanks for posting what I was thinking.  It would be great if our owner were W. Haas, probably the only owner the Athletics franchise ever had who gave more than lip service to the fans of the team (C. Mack certainly couldn't have given a crap about them).  

How this move will effect my feelings toward the team is yet to be determined.  It hurts a lot right now.  I know that I've been spoiled (with an 8 minute drive to the ballpark and very affordable ticket prices) but the A's were part of the reason I moved to Oakland.  I still LOVE the Coliseum and will never understand the reaction that everyone has toward our great and historical building (that is written without sarcasm).

One point though, I disagree with.  If they're going to desert Oakland, I say ditch the "Oakland" name.  If they don't want our town, I say let them be the Fremont A's (or my preference, the California A's).  If my city isn't good enough for them, in my opinion they can change their name.

by Brian in 317 on Nov 11, 2006 7:48 AM PST reply actions  

I enjoyed the coliseum ...
if they keep the name Oakland I'm okay treating Fremont like our Auburn Hills. The name means a lot to me. But I understand where you're coming from.

by devo on Nov 11, 2006 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm an A's fan
I've been an A's fan since 1972. I've lived in the Bay Area (in Berkeley, and on the peninsula, and in S.F., and in Sonoma County), and now I don't live there at all, as you can tell by my screen name.

The Coliseum and the Raiders told the A's, loud and clear, that the A's were no longer wanted at the Coliseum.  They turned an excellent baseball park -- as good as or better than any baseball venue in California -- into the Mt. Davis abomination that exists today.  On top of that, attendance is, shall we say, underachieving in light of the consistent success of the last several years.

Any reasonable MLB ownership/management would want out of the current stadium situation.

The A's belong in the Bay Area, and I'm very happy that they are going to stay there. If Fremont works, great. If the final location is Santa Clara or San Jose after Magowan gets his ransom money, that's fine as well. If a Camden/Coors/Jacobs-type downtown ballpark were miraculously built on the waterfront in Oakland, even better -- but it's not a prerequisite for me following the team.

by socal on Nov 11, 2006 8:56 AM PST reply actions  

Has the fan base in the bay-area shifted south?
Are the A's (and the 49ers) addressing the needs of fans in the south-bay?

by slobberknocker on Nov 11, 2006 9:54 AM PST reply actions  

the fastest growing part of the Bay
is in and around Fremont and in the outer burbs. Santa Clara is definitely a lot closer to a lot more people than Candlestick Park is.

Fremont I'd say is pretty comperable to Oakland -- but has the advantage of at the cross road of the south bay, inner east bay, outer east bay and penninsula.

It's a good location.

by devo on Nov 11, 2006 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

response
hey look if Devo feels the need to vent his anger against me that is fine.  No need to penalize him or anything.  And the "ditch in kansas" was as a previous poster stated not an iron clad comparison.  My point was that if you could be in a time warp between that spot and Kansas it would not look profoundly different.  Look my point is that Oakland would be the best, but sadly it is not an option for one reason or another.  So lets just make the best of this and not worry to much about it because they won't be in Fremont until 2011 at the earliest.

by jasonlbe on Nov 11, 2006 12:45 PM PST reply actions  

I feel ya Devo.
I've been living in Oakland for about 5 years and one of the main reasons I like the A's is because they represent my town. I'm expressing the love of my community through the love of the local team. When they move my interest will drop significantly.

Oakland= 40+ games a year
Fremont= 5-10

By the way DEVO played in SF a few weeks ago. They are old but they are still a tight band.

by roscoe on Nov 11, 2006 7:20 PM PST reply actions  

Excellent diary, devo
On a selfish note, a move to Fremont will probably work out better for me, distance-wise (although the closeness will be a moot point if I can't afford to go to as many games in a new park as I do at the Coliseum)... but I can also sympathize with your "civic sadness" about the move.  I think you've expressed your feelings of pride & connection really beautifully without impugning anyone else's.

by Poppy on Nov 11, 2006 10:11 PM PST reply actions  

bump for devon!
as an oaklander, as a oakland techer, you have hit the nail on the head absolutely.

baseball, i think, lets us all relive our childhood in many ways...the world is a complex place now...bills...kids (my wife is pregnant)...work...work politics....

but for 9 innings, you can retreat into this special place, a special world where there is just a bat and a ball and 9 people working together like a synchronized swimming team for one goal....

a little bit of that innocence is going to die for me when the A's move to Fremont. I won't walk the Bart ramp when I was a kid on my way to the old stadium (pre-mount davis) seeing those lights in the distance...the field through the green slits of the back fence behind that ivy...the roaring sound of the metal beachers that echoed through the stadium....the fun of playing "ditch" in the hall way of the bleachers...

sigh

by jayho on Nov 12, 2006 8:59 AM PST reply actions  

nicely put Homes
And congratulations on your impending fatherhood.  You'll find that nothing helps you revisit your childhood like having a kid and seeing the world through her eyes.  

It will be exciting to go to a new ball park, but my true love will always be the Coliseum (it may sound corny but I truly do cherish that building and all the memories which it holds therein).

by Brian in 317 on Nov 13, 2006 7:14 AM PST up reply actions  

haven't seen you around ...
either online or in real life forever.

Congrats on the baby, that's awesome.

You're definitely right about the world as a changing place. Six months ago my only responsibilities were my motorcycle loan, my college loans and a pittance to my parents for rent -- totalling less than $500/mo. All of a sudden Pam and I have our own place, which is huge, at least for us ... though not nearly as big as yours ... and all of the bills to go with it ... plus the cost of furniture for rooms we barely ever go into, a new car, grocery bills, etc, etc ...

It's like, what happened to me? One day in mid July I moved up to Sacramento and became an adult overnight.

Anyway, congrats on the baby ... you beat Mike, clearly you're twice the man he is ; )

We should get together for a game or something sometime, now that we're both boring old married/not quite married but acting like it in most ways people.

by devo on Nov 13, 2006 9:19 AM PST up reply actions  

I just got all angry
...in my post above, and in so doing, I forgot to thank Devo for a good post.

This is a really emotional issue for me.  But thanks Devo.

I don't find it any fun...No, not any longer. -- Will Shatter

by 66th Hegenberger on Nov 12, 2006 2:18 PM PST reply actions  

Well said
I swear this exact same diary has been kicking around for the past few days, though I doubt that I would have written so eloquently.

As a third generation Oaklander, I love this community and, as a sports fan, I feel so priviliged to have professional sports teams that are in my city. I hope that this comes off in the way that I intend because I certainly don't mean to demean any A's fans from outside of Oakland. However, I find that there is something special, something unique about being and A's fan in Oakland. An Oaklander doesn't just root for the A's because of the team itself, we root for our city. We root for our communal identity to be seen in an positive light that is all to rarely portrayed.

That said, I wish the A's and the communtiy of Fremont well. I hope that the privilege of having a pro baseball team can spark the same sort of civic pride for those kids that will grow up with the (gulp) Fre - (ouch it hurts ) - mont A's.

by dn9480 on Nov 13, 2006 12:40 PM PST reply actions  

Grateful
As a long-time tax-paying Oakland resident and A's fan, I'm just grateful that when they move it will be just down the road.  Oh and I propose that the team name themselves what all of us over here in the East Bay call ourselves, no matter how stupid it would look in the national print.  The Los Angeles Angeles of Anaheim have already given us plenty of room to be ourselves.

So I say "Go East Bay A's".

Shame is a stinky perfume.

by phillipsorgallego on Nov 13, 2006 3:44 PM PST reply actions  

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