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Unpopular Opinion Topic 5 - What Is It About Mark Ellis?

Happy Halloween! If you missed it, be sure to check out a special presentation of Halloween ANtics!

http://www.athleticsnation.com/story/2006/10/29/233035/78

First of all, let me start by saying that I think Mark Ellis is just about the nicest player in the game today; from all accounts, he is a genuine man who never allowed his fame to dictate his lifestyle, nor does his lifestyle put him on the front page of the papers. However, it is exactly these qualities that I feel lends to Mark Ellis' 'player likeability', and sometimes does not allow an objective look at his actual 'player qualities'.

Players that make a splash certainly stand out in our memories. Game-winning homeruns, big hits, and amazing plays will stick with us for a long time, and we will tend to attach these feelings to a player, sometimes ignoring all other statistical evidence. Marco Scutaro is evidence of this phenomenon. One would be hard-pressed to be able to create an iron-clad case for Scutaro being anything but, quite bluntly, a serviceable back-up infielder. He is both a below-average fielder and below-average hitter, but over his years in Oakland, he has managed to come up with several huge hits. Did he manage to get some of his few overall hits at just the right time, or was he lucky enough to be up to bat at a crucial time, or is he one of those players who truly deserves the dubious moniker of 'clutch'? It's certainly debated.

But there is no question in my mind that the majority of AN recognizes Scutaro's deficiencies and although we were thrilled to death with his playoff performance, one series does not a great baseball player make, and sadly, yet accurately, most of us do not believe the team is best served with Marco as an everyday player.

Yet, for as much criticism was thrown Scutaro's way this year, an equal amount of praise (and unicorns) were heaped on Mark Ellis. And why?

I will be the first to go to the mat in backing Ellis for a gold glove at second base. His defense is not Scutaro's. But yet...is that really enough? In a year when the A's severely lacked offensive production, Ellis batted .249 with 11 homeruns, fifty-two RBIs, and an OBP of .319. By contrast, Scutaro's line reads: .266, 5, 41, .350. I had to look up those numbers twice; I couldn't believe that Scutaro had the higher OPS, and I certainly couldn't believe he had both the higher average and slugging percentage. Judging from the climate surrounding these two players (before the post-season), I was sure Marco Scutaro was trailing in large margins in every category.

Mark Ellis had a terrible offensive year; there's not really any other way to spin it, and unlike his much-maligned counterpart, I can't think of a big hit off the top of my head. By contrast, I can rattle off four Scutaro moments within the first second of reflection, while simultaneously believing that his presence in the lineup and on the field hurts the team. Yet Marco Scutaro remains the disposable player to the A's fan base, while Ellis, for some reason, is the reigning golden boy. And let's be honest, we must be basing this on character points, and defense. Fair enough.

But when we talk about what the A's need this off-season; if we're interested in all at improving offensive production, Ellis should grouped right along with Scutaro. Consider our options. Barring a major trade, our shortstop position is a black hole. Our catcher is just about slugging his batting average. Our first baseman is looking to set the strikeout record, and while our third baseman is be the best defensive player I've ever seen, his offensive numbers are average, at best. Color me crazy, but shouldn't someone who plays the infield be able to hit?

I like Mark Ellis. I guess I just don't see 'it'. Can someone explain?

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Marco
I strongly disagree with the disposability of Marco and desirability of Ellis based on character. I have never seen a more humble player than Marco Scutaro, which is why he is my favorite player in the game. He goes out there everyday he's called upon and busts his butt throughout the game. He never complains, and he doesn't buckle under pressure.

" "It was an unbelievable feeling when I heard everybody screaming my name," Scutaro explained. "I said to myself, 'Do not strike out, please. Just make contact.' I made really good contact. I hit a double.

"I think that was the best moment of my career.""

A double. A double is the best moment of his career, because it sealed the game for his team... not because he reached 50 homeruns. He hit a game-sealing double. How can you dispose of a player like that?

by takebart on Oct 31, 2006 9:28 AM PST   0 recs

Let me clarify...
I wasn't suggesting at all that I didn't think Marco, too, has awesome character.

I guess I just don't understand everyone's willingness to get rid of Marco, yet keep Ellis at all costs.

And it has to be the defense...?

Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 31, 2006 9:35 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

In defense of Scutaro's defense
Comparing his play at SS to Ellis' play at 2B seems harsh.  Scoot is more naturally a second baseman, and might be just as good as Ellis with a prolonged stint at that position.
"The worst day on a ball field is better than the best day in any office." - David Wright

by kkdaz on Oct 31, 2006 10:12 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I agree with this.
Let me add--Marco has managed to avoid injury.

by Salvatore on Oct 31, 2006 10:54 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I agree
To say Scutaro is below average is a bit harsh.  He certainly has limited range and a below average arm at the shortstop position, but I just don't see a big drop off defensively when he fills in for Ellis.  As a second baseman, he is better than a number of regulars defensively, such as Ronnie Belliard, Jeff Kent, Ray Durham, and Robinson Cano, to name a few.  His offense is middling for the most part, but he usually gives you a quality at-bat and doesn't wilt under pressure.

I don't think Ellis is a plus .300 hitter but I don't think he regressed to his mean this year, either.  I think he is a solid .270-.280 hitter capable of 15 homers a year.  With his Gold Glove caliber defense, I will take that anyday.

Going back to Scutaro, this team is simply lost without his ability to fill in anywhere in the infield when needed.  He, like the maligned but vastly deserving of a better fate Adam Melhuse, is ready to go at all times.  He's even filled in in the outfield when asked.  Those are the guys that win the extra games above the pythagorean for you.

by titaniumaardvark on Oct 31, 2006 4:09 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I for one agree with takebart...
Marco's improvement, like many players, has come with more regular playing time.  And, as BBG notes with incredulity, his batting average and OPS were higher than Ellis' this year (not to mention Crosby's).  I happen to like Scutaro's defense and we probably wouldn't lose a whole lot if Marco were to move to 2nd base.  I'm not advocating this as a solution to the perceived offense woes of the infield, but Marco should be retained.  No doubt about it.

I'm one of the few, I guess, that is still very optimistic about Crosby's future with the A's.  Assuming he's healthy next year, I think he'll have a fine bounce-back season.

"When I got injured, I felt disrespected. Waaannnh!" - Mark Kotsay

by FoolshGame22 on Oct 31, 2006 10:09 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

A bounce-back season for Crosby?
Crosby doesn't bounce.

He shatters.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Oct 31, 2006 12:41 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Are you suggesting instead
that it'll be a Brokeback season for Crosby?

(quick, hide this thread from BCG).

I threw that horseshoe into the weeds to see what luck can bring

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 31, 2006 2:02 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re
Perhaps it's because Scutaro would never hit 10 home runs, let alone 50. Since Scutaro would never reach any meaningful performance milestone, he'd have to chose a game winning hit.

Let me put it this way, if Scutaro cranked that ball over the fence and named it his best moment, would you still think the same of him?

by regfairfield on Oct 31, 2006 10:22 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

he wouldn't name it his best moment
unless it was a team benefiting home run. Does Barry Bonds hit homeruns for his team, or for himself? I think the answer to that is beyond obvious.

by takebart on Nov 1, 2006 4:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

The problem with 2nd Base
is that you don't expect any offense from the position, and if you did, you'd take a huge hit on Defense.

The only way really to upgrade at 2nd is to trade for Michael Young and stick him back at 2nd where he belongs.

by Zonis on Oct 31, 2006 9:33 AM PST   0 recs

Good point...
...but we also can't expect offense from a number of positions, so we need it somewhere, right?
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 31, 2006 9:36 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

now THIS ...
... is a front-page UO diary! ;)

No two ways about it, Ellis had a Belangeriffic season in '06.

A request for the AN Spork Legion: what do Ellis's defensive stats look like on the various arcance metrics? Might we even be overrating his defense as well?

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 31, 2006 9:39 AM PST   0 recs

monkeyball approved?
Swwwweeeeeeet.... :)
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 31, 2006 9:46 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Chris Dial
Says he was the 4th best in the AL ... I don't believe anything else is out yet.

by devo on Oct 31, 2006 5:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

On a Solid Offensive Team ...
... you could trade offensive production for Mark Ellis' stellar glovework. But on our A's we're not getting  league-average offensive numbers from our outfield or first basemen -- so we need to get more spark from whomever is playing second.

The question is: Who would be better?

I LOVE Marco Scutaro! He exceeds expectaions all the time. He gets big hits. He's solid.

But, over the course of a season, I don't think Scutaro offers enough of an offensive upgrade over Ellis to justify the downgrade in D.

by Eck on Oct 31, 2006 9:40 AM PST   0 recs

Yep....
On a Solid Offensive Team you could trade offensive production for Mark Ellis' stellar glovework. But on our A's we're not getting  league-average offensive numbers from our outfield or first basemen -- so we need to get more spark from whomever is playing second.

That is exactly my point.

Ellis is a GREAT choice on a team with offense, since he does have the D, but on a team like the A's, how many positions can we reasonably sacrifice offense for defense before we suck?

Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 31, 2006 9:45 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

You keep talking like Ellis is some 220 hitter
The guy hit 316 just two years ago! It would be crazy to trade a guy like Ellis that could be an All Star as soon as 2007.

by sactownbull on Oct 31, 2006 9:53 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I'm not following that train of thought.
"On a Solid Offensive Team you could trade offensive production for Mark Ellis' stellar glovework. But on our A's we're not getting  league-average offensive numbers from our outfield or first basemen -- so we need to get more spark from whomever is playing second."

If we're not getting the production we need from our outfield or first basemen, shouldn't upgrades be made there, instead of at one of the few positions where you don't expect much offensively? Because our offensive production from the usual powers is limited, I'd be hesitant to sacrifice defense when we're looking at a lot of 2-1 games.

As far as Ellis goes, personality and small stature aside, he hit .316 a year after coming back from a career-threatening injury. While I don't think he'll do that again, I have no reason to believe that he can't be a solid producer.

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 31, 2006 10:02 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Well...
How do you upgrade the other postions? Chavez isn't going anywhere (and that's good); Swisher is still a wild card, but he's not going anywhere either. Kendall...well, we know he'll be in every game...that leaves Crosby and Ellis.
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 31, 2006 10:07 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Or replacing the outfield.
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 31, 2006 10:08 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Where offense is more plentiful
Namely, first base or a corner outfield spot.  That's where the A's are getting below league average production.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 31, 2006 10:08 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Yep.
But is that going to happen?
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 31, 2006 10:10 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Probably not
until Travis Buck is ready, sadly.

I don't think Ellis should be viewed as untradeable, since I think Scutaro could be at least a serviceable replacement, if not as good.  If Ellis and Street could be turned into that bat, I would listen.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 31, 2006 10:14 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

That's exactly what I meant, Jeepers
You don't upgrade at second where, given the general production of 2Bs in the league, the upgrade isn't large. If you're going to do it, you need to do it at one of the positions that's really letting you down in terms of offense, the outfield or the corner infield. Recognizing that Chavez and Swisher aren't going anywhere and noting Swisher's ability to play first and outfield, I imagine that new players in those positions would help the A's to a much larger extent than a change at second.
Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 31, 2006 10:17 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

duuuuuuuudddddeeeee....
Chavez and Swisher, duuuuudddeee..  Going nowhere.....  Like, dude, anchored to the ground, man.......  And dude, I can smell colors, and melt pennies with my mind!

Man, I miss sunshine acid.  I'm glad you have some, because the only way you can say that Swisher and Chavez are going nowhere and need to be replaced is if you are FRYING HARD!

Chavez is one of the best third basemen of all time, behind Mike Schmidt, maybe Pie Traynor, maybe Graig Nettles, and maybe Brooks Robinson.  

Remember, friends; Chavez took one for the team this year.  He should have sat for a month or so and healed, but the team needed his defense, so he sucked it up and PLAYED HURT... and some of you jackals want to get rid of him?  I want to give him a FREAKING MEDAL!

As for Swisher, he's entering his third year.  This guy was projected to be a .270 30HR lots of walks, lots of KOs guy.  He sure seems to be ahead of that projection to me.  I think he has the potential to be a .285 hitter with 40 dingers, if he works a little bit on plate discipline.  He's not that bad of a fielder, either.  Not great, but way better than Giambi at least.

by K56 on Oct 31, 2006 1:33 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Chavvy and Swish
I agree that Swish is outstanding, you don't bash a guy who hits 35 dingers for being weak in AB, that's just retarded.

But Chavvy is another story. The docs wanted to give him shoulder surgery in the off-season, and he refused and preferred to "play through it". Perez was signed to give Chavy some days off. And we know what happened to that plan.

So ole Chavvy needs to go under the knife (or laser, whatever) this off-season or he's going to suck again next year. All this problems with forearms and hamstrings probably come from his refusal to get the operation.

Personally, I'd like to move Swish back to the OF to replace the departing Payton, so I want to find a real first baseman who can hit the off-speed stuff that Dan Johnson can't locate. And I'd like to replace the fraud Crosby, and I'd like to tell Mr. Chavez that he's of no use to A's unless he's healthy.

So that leaves Ellis as the only guy in the infield who doesn't actually suck.

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by Mossback on Oct 31, 2006 1:48 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Chavez has said
that his hamstring problems (which led to his forearm problems) were caused by his gaining 15 pounds over the winter.
"We are a complete freak show." -- Billy Beane

by day-to-day on Oct 31, 2006 7:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

You need to read more carefully
or else share your goodies.  The comment "Swisher and Chavy are going nowhere" is a statement about their contractual status.  Where's the part that says they need to be replaced?
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 31, 2006 3:34 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Do we really...
need an upgrade at a majority of our positions? We played in our league's championship series; I'd say that's the mark of a very good team. I don't think we need major changes or upgrades - I think we need the players we have to produce more often in certain situations, and we can take the next step.

Also, I believe Ellis simply had a down year offensively, and will return to his 2005 form in the upcoming season.

by OaklandA23 on Oct 31, 2006 3:54 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

The rest of the league isn't going to sit still
Angels will buy some talent and get some guys healthy, the Rangers are a better team than their record indicates, and the Mariners aren't nearly as  bad as they were against the A's this year. If they'd played the A's as well as they played the Angels, we would have finished third in the division.

Plus, the A's are losing some guys, so yeah, we do need to make some upgrades, especially in the weak-hitting infield. Signing a real shortstop would be a good start.

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by Mossback on Oct 31, 2006 4:07 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I understand what you're saying
but I still don't think we need to make changes. I think Chavez will come back healthier than last year. Will he remain that way throughout the course of the season? Who knows. But that's obviously something that goes for every player. I think Ellis is a quality 2B, and will regain his 2005 form offensively. Our 1B is what it is - Swisher getting most of the playing time. As far as Crosby, obviously health is the question. But are we going to be able to unload him at this point? Absolutely not. You play him, hoping he can stay healthy, and if he does, he has the talent to put up respectable numbers. If not, Scutaro has proven to be a valuable replacement. It was good enough to get to the ALCS last year, so are we concerned that it won't work again next year?

by OaklandA23 on Oct 31, 2006 4:27 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

You're holding your breath
Hoping that 2007 will be a replay of 2006 is wishful thinking. Chavez has a serious set of health issues that now include a shoulder, the forearms, the hamstring, and possibly a tendon, and he's also overweight. Unless he gets the operation, I'd trade him because he's only going to get worse.

Crosby has never performed worth a damn, and we need Swish in the outfield. So yes, the infield needs work, except for Ellis.

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by Mossback on Oct 31, 2006 4:35 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Nope
That isn't the way I meant it. What I meant was that if we were going to upgrade one position, it should be at a position where there's a big difference between the production the A's are getting and that of other teams, rather than 2nd where I don't believe the difference between Ellis and the rest of the competition is as large.

That's still probably not as clear as it is in my head. :)

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 31, 2006 4:38 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

The jury's still out for me.
Last year kind of seemed like a lost season for him.  He got off to a terrible start, then got hurt, then got back to doing the things he did in 2005 late in the year.  I think that he was pressing early on after being anointed a top-of-the-order hitter.  

His defense is without peer, and I like his compact, yet still powerful swing, and how many pitches he typically sees.  I wouldn't turn down a team interested in him via trade, but I'm comfortable with him being back, and think he stands a good chance of being a .280/.360/.450 hitter over the course of a full season.  

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 31, 2006 9:45 AM PST   0 recs

come on, kids...
Let's be reasonable here for a minute...

Is it not reasonable to expect that a healthy Eric Chavez will hit .285 with 30 dingers, like he always does when he's healthy?

Is it not reasonable to expect that a healthy Mark Ellis will hit .265 with 15 dingers and stellar defense?

Is it not reasonable to expect that a healthy Bobby Crosby will hit .250 with 20 dingers and decent defense?

Is it not reasonable to expect that Marco Scutaro will hit .250 with 5 dingers and decent defense as a 2B/SS backup?

All I'm thinking we need is a utility guy who can play 2B, SS, and something else (3B?  OF?)
and give us .230 with 5 dingers and decent defense, because the only thing that is not reasonable to expect is that the entire infield will be healthy at all times.  That is unreasonable, and that's why we need two solid backups.  

Scutaro is great.  Perez can't hit off the bench.  Jimenez is gone.  Good riddance.  Unfortunately, Mike Rouse is gone now.  He was my choice for fifth infielder.  Maybe BB can pick up somebody.  I don't think Kiger's the man.  He needs at least a full year in Sacramento first.  Melillo's too young too.

by K56 on Oct 31, 2006 9:49 AM PST   0 recs

All good points.
Yet, we need more offense than that. We don't have the 1B, 3B, or SS numbers that a lot of teams have, and we must make it up at other positions.
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 31, 2006 9:58 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Mark Ellis with 15 dingers?
His career high is 13 in 2005.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 31, 2006 10:00 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I was thinking...
...Bobby Crosby can bat .250?!
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 31, 2006 10:01 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

And he didn't start
until six weeks into the season.  I think it's reasonable that he could add two homers in that time.  He has legit power; his home runs usually aren't cheapies.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 31, 2006 10:02 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

And why didn't he start until 6 weeks
into the season?

Yes, he has the power. The problem is that, he, like so many A's players, seem to have issues fulfilling their potential.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 31, 2006 10:12 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Because he was coming off
a catastrophic shoulder injury.  The A's didn't think he would be capable of much, but he played his way into changing that perception.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 31, 2006 10:15 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

That's my point
Even in a career year, he had injury issues.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 31, 2006 12:04 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

His injury issues look like luck to me.
Getting pwned by your own shortstop, getting your fingers broken by other players...that's not the same as recurrent muscle and ligament issues.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 31, 2006 12:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Indeed
Ellis' career-threatening injury was Crosby's fault, the fracture from making a tag was a real accident, but that fracture while batting was preventable. So it's mostly bad luck, but some overly-aggressive play.
The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by Mossback on Oct 31, 2006 1:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I generally agree
However, just playing Devil's Advocate, bones like muscles and ligaments, can get stronger too.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 31, 2006 9:49 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

How quickly some of us forget
Mark Ellis his 316 in 2005. He was also one of out better offensive players in the 2002 ALDS hitting well over 350 with 4 or 5 rbi. Yeah Ellis had a down year at the plate but to talk like he can't hit is just crazy. The man has proven he can hit in the big leagues it's just a matter of him staying healthy and returning to form. The reason many A's fans like Mark Ellis is simple. He's good.

by sactownbull on Oct 31, 2006 9:49 AM PST   0 recs

True...
...but I think 2005 was a little bit of an abberation. His career mark is somewhere around .270, which is not bad, and actually would be awesome if someone else on this team could hit.

But we have to upgrade offense somewhere...the question is...where?

Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 31, 2006 9:56 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

misspelling
I have it on good authority that Ellis's excellent '05 was the result of his getting pumped up listening to cheesy Scandinavian disco music before every game.

Yes, that season was an abbaration.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 31, 2006 9:59 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Heh...and oops.
You know I can't spell in comments!
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 31, 2006 10:00 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I thought it was the
retro-Weimar nightclubs he frequented that made the 2005 season a cabaretion.
"Even if you know the deck is stacked in your favor, you still have to have the discipline to trust the math and the cojones to go to the ATM." BB

by green star oakland on Oct 31, 2006 10:38 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

no, it was the yuppie wine bars ...
... 2005 was a cabernetion.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 31, 2006 10:45 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

and, of course, this year ...
... his bat went into hibernation.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 31, 2006 10:45 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

New cheese-related blogs by SBNation.
First up, "CamembertNation.com"
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 31, 2006 10:47 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Comedy Central SBNation blog
Colbertnation.com
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 31, 2006 11:00 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Bad Family Sitcoms SBNation blog
FrankLambertNation.com
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 31, 2006 11:01 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Tasty fruit infused beer blog
PhatLambicNation.com
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 31, 2006 11:11 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Haven't heard of SoCal indi rock band
WhatLimbeckNation.com
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 31, 2006 11:14 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Manchurian Candidate bit player blog
takethisgunandshootBobbyLembecknation.com
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 31, 2006 4:15 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I truely believe Ellis is a 290-310 hitter
But even if he only hits 270-280, he's far too valuable to trade.

The offense does need an upgrade no doubt. But I believe much of it will come from the existing roster. Besides Ellis I see the following players stepping up.

Chavez- (if healthy) will but up much better numbers

Bradley - Another guy that needs to stay healthy. This is a much bigger if seeing as Bradley has had issues staying healthy throughout his career.

Swisher- Swish should only get better as he gets older. Right now he really doesn't know how to "hit". I think you'll see a big drop in Ks next year along with a 20-30 point rise in his average

Dan Johnson & Bobby Crosby - The two wildcards in the bunch. If just one of them comes through then the A's offense could take a big step forward. I really do think one of these guys will have a good offensive season.

Now even if Frank returns we can't expect him to put up the same type of numbers he did in 2006. And if Payton leaves, he takes his 300 average and 15-20 homeruns with him. I really think we have to resign Payton or at the very least find a guy who can put up those type of numbers. So we do agree the A's are going to need to add a player to move the O forward (if Payton does leave) Where we differ is on Ellis. I just don't think Ellis is a player you have to worry about moving to help your offense. I think he's part of the solution and not part of the problem.

by sactownbull on Oct 31, 2006 10:32 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Ellis's defense
I believe Ellis is rated highly because of his defense.

BPro has Ellis at a Rate of 103 and FRAA of 4. Chris Dial has him at RSpt of 7 and Rs /150 of 8. He also looks good if Range Factor, which is a very basic stat is used. His Range Factor is 5.12, league Range Factor is 4.47.

Ellis had an OPS+ of 85 last year, Scutaro 97.

Dial had Scutaro at +4 at 2nd. BPro has Scutaro at a Rate of 100 at 2nd and FRAA of 0. Scutaro's Range Factor was 4.49

I certainly do not want Marco Scutaro to be traded. Not unless Beane gets something good in return.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 31, 2006 9:54 AM PST   0 recs

you don't see "it" because ...
... your eyes have been gouged out by the unicorn's horn.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 31, 2006 10:11 AM PST   0 recs

This one isn't difficult
Ellis plays great defense, and unlike with some other players, there's really no question about that. He's rated highly both by the scouts and by every statistical measure I've seen.

Ellis has a career .746 OPS (by year: .753, .684, .861, .704) to Scutaro's .704 (by year: .690, .701, .747). Their bad years are about the same, but Ellis has that one excellent year mixed in as well. The only argument in favor of Scutaro here would be that his last year was better, and that his numbers have been going up. But trying to read trends like that into a couple years of data is exactly the kind of mistake that smart GMs avoid. Ellis is almost two years younger and has better career numbers, and is pretty clearly the better bet going forward.

In short, Ellis is certainly no superstar (and isn't going to become one) but even in one of his bad offensive years his defense makes him a solid contributor to a contending team. Sure, I'd love to have Brian Roberts or Chase Utley, but this is not a position we need to worry about.

Some are sabermetricians.

by andeux on Oct 31, 2006 10:15 AM PST   0 recs

my argument above yours was more concise
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 31, 2006 10:26 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

And just so we're clear...
...I'm not saying, Fire Ellis, replace with Marco, AT ALL. I'm not even saying 'Fire Ellis'. It just seems like he's one of the most popular A's on the team, and I'm just trying to learn why.
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 31, 2006 10:27 AM PST   0 recs

A big reason why is his 368 average in 2002 ALDS
When a rookie comes in and hits like that in the playoffs, he becomes and fan favorite

by sactownbull on Oct 31, 2006 10:40 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

another reason why...
Not too many of the players have a long tenure with the club.

Chavez is the old man ('98)

I think Ellis is the second longest tenured, going into his 5th year in Oakland (6 years if you count his year off)

We've been rooting for him for a long time.  Why stop now?

by K56 on Oct 31, 2006 1:43 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

The subtext is the next diary
Reading through your diary and many of the comments, the fog clears on Mark Ellis - he's a solid 2nd baseman by league standards - and on Scoot - he's a solid backup infielder by league standards.  Why not keep them both?

So the real question becomes how are we going to upgrade the offensive output of our outfield and/or first base?

At first glance you would guess that we've got to keep Swish and Bradley but all others would be disposable - which is why your next unpopular opinion diary could be "Why the A's need to get rid of Kots and/or JayPay".  

Adding a slugging 1st baseman would be a huge boost for this club if Swish is in the outfield.

by As Exile in Atlanta on Oct 31, 2006 10:32 AM PST   0 recs

re
I don't know if it's been studied, but it seems common for early season injuries to derail entire seasons (just this year, see Coco Crisp and even Bobby Crosby.)  I don't think Ellis was just hot in August.  I think it likely took him that long to get back into shape and rhythm.

Ellis is the superior player regardless. His track record of offense and defense far surpasses Scoot's.  Period. Even in 2006, Sc