"Ken Macha, 2006": A Horror Story, Written And Produced By Billy Beane
On Monday, Billy Beane swooped in heroically to save a disgruntled clubhouse from a problem that he had single-handedly created. The issue wasn't whether Ken Macha was a manager worthy of leading the Oakland A's. It had already been established in the Winter of 2005 that Macha was "good enough before and he's good enough now," and whether you loved, liked, disliked, or hated Macha's managerial style and decisions, the record reflects that he was "good enough" to be rehired for 2006, that his teams won an awful lot of games even through the challenges of youth and injury, and that his latest club advanced farther than any A's club had advanced since 1992.
So the why was the 2006 version of Ken Macha suddenly not "good enough" anymore, why was he unable to command the respect and appreciation of many of the same players who supported him in 2005? When Macha left last Winter, only to return a few days later, Billy Beane passed up the opportunity to say, "We're really glad to have him back," or "He has an excellent track record and we're glad things ultimately worked out." Instead, it became publicly known that Macha had been forced to crawl back to the same financial terms of the non-negotiable offer he had earlier refused, and Beane's choice of words to describe his "willingness" to "take Macha back" was that Macha had been "good enough before" and was "good enough" now.
In a baseball locker room, guys walk around naked together. Imagine if you walked by your boss and while he was giving you orders, and asking for your respect, you noticed that he had no testicles. And he's standing there, being all "in charge," and all you can think about is...Imagine that you are a boss and you are publicly humiliated by your boss, and you know that your employees have read all about it in the newspaper, and now you have to supervise guys whose contract negotiations actually yield them raises and they just heard that you're back because you were "good enough". How much respect would you expect to garner in your "clubhouse," and how much resentment would you carry to work with you each day?
Billy Beane chose not to offer Ken Macha a token $50,000 or $100,000 raise so that it would appear there had been a negotiation that caused the manager's return the second time. Instead, Beane, and these are the exact words I used at the time, "won the battle and lost the war," bringing back a humiliated and demoralized and disgruntled man whom the A's now, ironically, owe $2,000,000 for services that will never be rendered. Beane chose not to talk up his newly hired old manager, choosing a term, "good enough," that is every bit as inflammatory as the term "non-entity" Macha used to describe those on the DL. Who do you think was made to feel like a "non-entity" in 2006? The boss. By whom? His boss.
So if you're wondering how the same Ken Macha who seemed to be a "good enough" communicator, personality, and overall manager through 2005 could suddenly not be "good enough" with mostly the same players and actually more on-field success, the answer is simple: It was not the same Ken Macha. It was the neutered, resentful version that Beane crafted. Macha may never have been the best manager available, but he is the victim this time--the victim of an evolution that was so inevitable, anyone but the boss' boss could have seen it coming a mile away.
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Nico!
This is such a logical and well researched piece of writing. I remember thinking when Macha was re-hired that it didn't sound like Beane was excited to have Macha there, but I figured it was no big deal because the story kind of faded away...until this week.
Billy Beane is great, but he does make mistakes. Of course, we all do. It almost makes me like the A's more, because they're not perfect; rather, they're a collection of real people who have emotions and sometimes they mess up.
by rich @ Athletics Nation on Oct 20, 2006 8:24 AM PDT reply actions
Okay, THAT explains it!
I have a feeling...
by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Oct 20, 2006 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
nowadays, they could just KILLFILE you
Very well said
Yeah, I'm down with this POV.
And in all honesty, though I do think Macha let his annoyance at being forced to crawl back get to him, I don't agree that a single player, anywhere in that locker room, would have thought less of the boss because he wasn't earning an extra hundy G's.
Macha came back because he had no choice. And anyone who has had to move back home for a year, or work a job that's beneath their level of experience while waiting for another to come along, knows just how annoying and frustrating that can be.
If there was an error by Beane in all this, it was in offering Macha anything more than a single year deal. Because those extra two years were going to be more expensive than any raise Macha might have asked for, and as soon as the contract was inked, Macha set about manufacturing his own dismissal so that those two years would earn him a nice big profit.
Battle to Beane, war to Macha.
OK
by IndianaAsfan on Oct 20, 2006 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
There's a difference between making a mill..
I'll take one of those any day you offer it. The other? Not so much.
Nico's point is valid--but Macha DID...
by The Dogfather on Oct 20, 2006 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Bingo.....
Still,
You give Beane too much credit. Joe Torre is another manager with a vocal and critical boss and it doesn't appear he lets that get in the way.
Torre illustrates the point of this diary
But does he tell the media Torre is barely adequate, take all authority away from Torre, and gloat about it to the media? No.
Did Steinbrenner offer one of the lowest manager salaries in MLB and force Torre to grovel before him to get it? No. Torre makes several million per year and has never been underpaid.
You can gripe about many things with Steinbrenner, but Torre unquestionably has the ability to command respect from his players. That is something that Beane denied to Macha.
I refuse to give Beane the power
Hierarchy is a part of the sports world, as it is a part of American society in general. We all have "bosses" in some way. Ken's a big boy, he should be able to deal with it and not let it affect his relationship with his players.
This psychoanalyis is an excuse IMO.
Are you kidding?
"I am deeply disappointed at our being eliminated so early in the playoffs. This result is absolutely not acceptable to me nor to our great and loyal Yankee fans. I want to congratulate the Detroit Tigers organization and wish them well. Rest assured, we will go back to work immediately and try to right this sad failure and provide a championship for the Yankees, as is our goal every year."
He went on to tell reporters he was still trying to decide whether Joe Torre would be manager the following year.
Emasculating much?
Torre was never made to grovel
Torre can go back on the field next year and still command the full respect of the players. Beane did not allow Macha to do that. Beane needs to do better for the next manager.
I disagree.
The reason he took his time thinking about it was to gauge the reaction from Yankee fans and the press, and the reaction was, "are you nuts?"
Then, and only then, could Torre have his job.
The mere fact that he even needed to think about it is a slap to the man's face. Add on all the PR bullshit that he was throwing about while he 'mulled it over', and if I were Torre, I would have told Steinbrenner to jam his job.
well...
by ohtobe21likehuston on Oct 20, 2006 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Not true...
by compy75 on Oct 20, 2006 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Torre's mild reaction surprised me too...
I remember Joe's "gut punched" expression; I think it will eat at him and this will be continued in 2007.
I think Torre "takes" George money over the hill and leaves George next spring to suffer with his "$1/4 Billion Loser".
Like you said the real clubhouse drama rarely comes to light in the media because the media need their jobs and like to eat too.
Torre looked like he had been stabbed in the back. This one leaves scars. Torre got the preview with Fowler's bad treatment in the media, I think Torre cuts this short and regroups. He is too good not to.
Too bad BB has the same rep, A's could really use him.
by A s Eh on Oct 20, 2006 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Great points, Nico
BB and the A's are much better served with a manager who is respected by management and given real authority, so that he can command respect from the players.
Also,
No doubt. To paraphrase a great Yankee...
Spot on
There's a Raider parallel here as well; for different reasons and towards wildly different ends, the Raider head coach job is also unique in its level of emasculation w/r/t players' perceptions.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 20, 2006 8:45 AM PDT reply actions
Looking from the outside in I'd guess that Shell
BB seems to be pointing the A's in a similar direction.
by A s Eh on Oct 20, 2006 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Holy Smoke! Byrnes just won ESPN 2006 Web Gems
by A s Eh on Oct 20, 2006 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Nick Swisher is picked for 1B Web Gems!
by A s Eh on Oct 20, 2006 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Fact is the A's gave Macha more than anyone else
Lest we forget
by kkdaz on Oct 20, 2006 9:09 AM PDT reply actions
Yep, that sums it up.
The only problem I have with all that
Regardless of whether BB emasculated Kenny or not, this should not affect his relationship with his players. Professional sports are full of athletes essentially making more than their coaches. That's not a recent development. It's been that way for at least two decades in almost all sports. It's just the way things are in sports these days.
Macha's job was essentially the same as that of a Longs Drugs manager. He is (was) the liason between the employees and management. He's in charge of handling the employees, regardless of whether his bosses yell at him, regardless of whether the employees yell at him. It's part of the gig.
I hate to use him, but Joe Torre's an excellent example of this. Yes, Steinbrenner's unreasonable and critical and treats Joe like dirt. Does he let this affect his players? No. He stands as go-between. It's part of his job.
Now let's say in your position as manager of the Longs Drugs, you:
- Are constantly criticized by both sides of the equation.
- You see your best cashier has the flu and will not make it through the shift AND REFUSE TO CALL SOMEONE ELSE IN until the flu has gotten so bad, the cashier collapses, Longs customers are backed out the door and are starting to drift over to Payless.
- Your employees feel so negatively about your performance as store manager, they go to the regional manager and complain. Regularly.
There's a key difference
This was an interesting diary in that considering how good of a severence package Macha received (and that's pretty much what it is), there's definitely something to be said about Beane's approach of
*Managers are mostly irrelevant to the success of this team.
*If you think you deserve a raise for the team's success, think again.
*Well, you're good enough for us (since you're really irrelevant)
*We're happy to have him back (because that'll save me the work of searching hard for someone that'll put up with me)
Not exactly a huge vote of confidence.
but
Are potential MLB managers so ego-fragile that they need constant hand-holding? It isn't like we're talking about Steinbrenner criticizing Torre or anything. We're talking about a less than orgasmic endorsement of the manager by the GM. And, as it turns out, his job is to be critical of the manager.
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, to continue with the analogy
Macha - paid less yearly than Scoscia, Torre, Cox, Alou (!), Showalter
On par with Francona, Leyland, Gardenhire
Based on his performance in the regular season, Macha thought he was worthy of a raise (too high of one really, but still worthy of one). Instead, Beane played hardball and went with no raise (helluva negotiator).
So, you're an assistant mgr @ Longs, maybe in charge of a major department. The department has done well, for the most part because the store manager hires great employees. You ask for a raise. Store manager says 'no. you can go.' The only other store hiring picks someone else.
You go back to Longs seeing if you can get your old position back at the same rate (ignore that the rate is $1M. It's irrelevant. Especially considering the going rate for other successful asst managers at other stores is higher) The store manager says sure, because - it's not costing him any more money. He doesn't have to train another assistant manager. You know the employees already and sort of hae a rapport. It's not really a vote of confidence. It's more like the store manager took the past of least resistance (it was easiest for him at the time). Your employees see this. Their respect for you has dropped, because more or less, you came grovelling back for the job. All the little things they didn't like about you before, but weren't so important ... well, now they felt they could complain directly to the store manager. You try to keep the store successful, despite knowing that other assistant mgrs out there are getting paid more and their stores don't do as well. You get a bit resentful, because the store mgr basically gives you very little credit for the store's success.
Beane's job might be to be critical of Macha, but it would've been appreciated, I think, if he said 'here's a token raise for a job well done. Your next contract will also include a performance bonus for each level you reach ... 90 wins, division title, ALDS title, AL pennant, WS'
Instead, he implied 'Your reward is keeping your job.'
Well put, Rickey Fan--
Like Nico says, well put
And, once there is bad blood in the workplace, its hard for it to ever really heal until one of the sides moves on.
Based on what came out, I think, in hindsight, that Beane screwed up several times in how he handled Macha.
1st, by not permitting him to apply for the Boston job, that was whack.
2nd, by treating him like a replaceable part, of no more importance than the 7th outfielder on the 40 man roster.
3rd, by just plain being an alpha male dick
4th, by not leaving wiggle room in the public announcements after they couldn't agree to terms.
he could have said: Ken and I are pretty far apart on contract terms, I have given him permission to explore other opportunities.
Not He's gone, I made a take it or leave it offer.
5th, by taking him back if he didn't really want him
6th, by not giving a face saving renegotiated offer, followed by a press conference: we've mutually decided that this is the best fit, we're happy to have Ken back, this has been a learning process, yadda yadda yaddd.
7th, by not staying the hell out of Macha's domain.
Alpha male dick
Yes, people are human
I know we love the A's. I love them as much as you all do--after all, here we are debating this firing a week afterward, well into our off-season. But it is a business. And regardless of why Macha was unhappy, and regardless of whether Beane created this self-fufilling prophecy where he dug the hole, covered and waited for Kenny to fall in, and regardless of why he was fired, the decision was made based on business. And BB and Lew Wolff decided that Macha was wrong for their business.
Also, and I feel like a a-hole bleating on about this point, but even if BB was a complete backstabing jerk to Macha (which he was not), that's life too. That happens, at the Longs, and at Burger king, and at Sear's, and at Gold's, and at Sysco, and at Wells Fargo, and at State Farm. It's real. It happens, and we all have to deal with it. And so did Macha.
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
But the fact remains
No one was forcing Macha to come back into this situation. And IF his position was weakened like you're claming it was (and I do not agree with that premise, but I'll get to that in a minute), surely he was intelligent enough and forward-thinking enough to realize the precarious situation he might find himself in, right?
The problem though is that I don't agree with your premise here (and, defacto, Nico's, I suppose). Most of these guys are ballplayers and have played ball their entire life. The structure in ball is you have a coach, and he's in charge. He says where in the batting order you bat, when you play, what time practice starts, what the curfew is, all that stuff. I don't think any sort of situation regarding Macha's contract or regarding Macha's job status affected the way that these guys interacted with him. And IF it did, it's on Macha to correct the situation, not the players, not BB.
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions
But Leopold Bloom,
I know plenty of people whose job circumstances made them so angry or miserable that they "wanted to quit" or "wanted to give their boss a piece of their mind" or "wanted to say no to the latest offer," but reality got in the way and forced them to accept the bird in the hand.
And the fact that Macha was being relatively well-paid (compared to most of us) is also not relevant, because one's pride, dignity, feeling respected, and so on--all "worth" more than $2,000,000 at some level.
These are "heart" and "soul" matters, not "head" and "wallet" matters. And as long as humans are involved, it will always be this way.
But
"My heart's for my family, Joe. My brains and my balls are for business and this is business."
I understand what you're saying, and I think where we disagree is in the roles we're discussing. Me and you are huge fans of this team. We're emotionally invested in this product. BB and Lew Wolff, I know they want to give us a winner. But they are in business. Even if it is something we're completely passionate about, stark-raving so sometimes.
I know, I live and die with them too. I still curse the name of Kirk Gibson. I still tear up when I think about Rickey and Hendu and Carney and I felt personally betrayed by The Tool (aka JG) when he signed with the Evil Empire. There's a warm spot in my heart for all these guys, past and present (with the possible exception of Kenny Rogers).
But it is a business.
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
and for the record
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Ultimately, I think you and I
Tomorrow we'll discuss the spleen.
Just as long as we
The doctors took mine earlier this year and refuse to give it back.
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
That's strange--
you weren't
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Can I just say it one more time?
Your honor,
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Nico
So ultimately he said those things that you claim he never said.
Course he also said:
I believe Beane was excited to have Macha back at the time, but I also think that the fashion in which Macha handled quite a few things this year put a big strain on an already strained relationship.
To me, you make it sound like Beane went from one day to the next in deciding this. But 162 games plus seven games in the playoffs is a long time. If you count when spring training started until when Macha was let go, that was nearly eight months. A lot of stuff obviously happened behind the scenes that we aren't privy to.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 20, 2006 9:20 AM PDT reply actions
And undoubtedly, the things that happened
Leopold Bloom says you shouldn't take out your resentments and internal management issues out on your job and the employees. True, but human beings are, well, human, and that's what you can expect to happen 98.2% of the time. If you don't want that, hire a robot--hey wait, Billy would like that, huh? :-}
I think Beane is a terrific GM in almost every way. I also think he blew any chance of this partnership working the way it played out. Macha may have been a poor manager before--that's some people's opinion. But he was certainly "dead man walking" when he hit the clubhouse for the first time in February, 2006. It was not going to go well. And it didn't.
It may have also been the fact
Regardless, Billy did say that he was thrilled to have Macha back. Even if it wasn't immediately after he rehired him.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 20, 2006 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
both of you are right
my whole problem with this entire scenario
Almost all the players' quotes about Macha (Kotsay's unavailability "puzzling", Melhuse/Harden's DL stints rendering them "non-entities", Zito's 2003 game against the Angels) were references to items written in the papers. Personally, I felt like all the players were looking for examples of Macha's lack of leadership and ended up pointing at the all-too-obvious media quotes as evidence to back their statements. Why not go to Macha and ask him yourself? Why not speak your mind to your manager?
It's easy to come the various inferences in this thread based on what we read from our local beat writers, but it never surfaced during the season - not once did we ever read about this kind of player dissent in "the best clubhouse of the MLB."
In fact I rather enjoyed listening to the pre-game Ken Macha Show quite a bit this season due to his unpretentious and willingness to share information about the various things going on behind the scenes from the previous game - his frankness was refreshing and, unless it was a losing, post-game interview, generally a very lively and informative interview. As Blez states, "We aren't privvy to a lot of behind-the-scenes information," these pre-games shows were the most informative 'behind the scenes' moments I would get all season.
Now that said, I don't think anyone disagrees with Beane's decision to fire him this year. Contract was too big, 4th best record in A's history, first post-season win in over 15 years... doesn't matter.
I thought Macha did better this year than any years past, where I might have frequented the ihatekenmacha blog more often than in 2006 - hell at one point they hadn't updated for a month because Macha hadn't really blown anything for a long time. You know the A's hadn't lost 4 games in a row since late June before the ALCS? It's all water under the bridge now, what's done is done.
HIRE WASH NOW!
by popcornjames on Oct 20, 2006 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
The Macha firing was not all about Beane...
Plus for those who still think the player feelings on Macha did not have a direct impact on his firing should think about the people who needed to approve the move.
Billy does not have $2 -3 million (new mgr will cost up to $1 million) of blanket authority to do what he wants, when he wants. Fisher/Wolff needed to approve the move. And Billy doesn't even have the balls to ask if the players hadn't revolted.
by Sashulia on Oct 20, 2006 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Chavvy and Zito
well he deserves it...hence my motto
by Suck My Moneyballs on Oct 20, 2006 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Wrong translation
Just had to point that out.
Telling
by IndianaAsfan on Oct 20, 2006 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
congrats Nico
NY Times was wrong
In case anyone missed the article:
http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=FA0A16FE3E540C778CDDA90994DE404482
by juan on Oct 20, 2006 9:52 AM PDT reply actions
I disagree
As Blez says, this is all speculation because only those involved really know what went on in the clubhouse. My guess is that at some point we will find out, maybe from Mychael Urban after the dust clears, or possibly from Michael Lewis if the Macha story folds into the "Underdogs" story in some way.
by richwol on Oct 20, 2006 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Wayto go Nico....
Not me, Carney4ever--
OK, maybe not for your writing
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 20, 2006 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
That reminds me:
Folks, Macha didn't have to accept
by china bob on Oct 20, 2006 9:58 AM PDT reply actions
thats a fair point,
telling a boss to stick it and taking your chances finding another job is a lot easier when you have a more regular job, with a greater market of replacement jobs. there's only 4-8 mlb manager jobs available per year.
I don't blame him for giving it a shot.
Exactly.
Lew Wolff and Fisher's old man have definitely paid much more to make problems go away. Good riddance Kenny, you are the non-entity now.
by southofcruiseamerica on Oct 21, 2006 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Plausible scenario
Macha: Hi Pittsburgh, I'm ready to manage you club next year.
Pittsburgh: Only if you bring Billy Beane with you to call the shots.
Macha: I don't like that idea.
Pittsburgh: Get Lost!
Macha: Hi Lew. How are things in Oakland.
Lew Wolfe: O'k I guess. But we still need a manager for next season.
Macha: Even though I have some great opportunities, I always liked you and the A's.
Lew: I like you too Ken. Let me talk to Billy.
Lew: Billy, I just got a call from Ken and I really think that we should bring him back.
Billy: You must be joking!
Lew: I don't joke, I sign the checks.
Billy: OH SH!T. O'K
2006
Billy: Lew, this time stay off the phone and just sign the checks.
Lew: Yes sir.
Billy: (to himself) damn meddling old fool.
Macha had the bad face
I'm totally cool with performance scouting rather than speculative scouting, but anyone who's watched enough A's games knows that Ken Macha has the bad face. Don Juan Matus would have called it "Bad Tonal." Wavy Gravy would have called it "Bad freakin' vibes, dude!"
Ron Washington has the good face. He's also got the double whammy. Hiring him will put a strong leader on the field, yet one who knows that he has to follow the organizational plan, or his arse is grass. Hiring him will also keep him away from Texas. Texas with Washington managing is a playoff contender, and we do not want Texas to be a playoff contender!
by K56 @ Athletics Nation on Oct 20, 2006 10:27 AM PDT reply actions
But the hurt-the-rival theory...
For that matter Texas could hire Macha
And it creates all sorts of negative vibe energy in the A's organization.
Plus, Macha's even keel would be a good fit in the dustbowl at Arlington for the ups and downs of a long season.
by connie mack on Oct 21, 2006 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm digging that
What a difference a year makes!!!
i don't get it...
You do me a disservice, sir!
You quoted me out of context. I said Macha wouldn't lose credibility because he left and came back. I also shared this gem: "The only way Macha loses respect in the dugout is if he sulks about his contract."
Which may have been what happened.
Point is sal...
Geren on the bench like a Soviet
by calvin @ Athletics Nation on Oct 20, 2006 11:14 AM PDT reply actions
Imagine how Charlie Manuel feels
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 20, 2006 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
talk about the OLD boys network
totally agree
by connie mack on Oct 21, 2006 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Twins Managers gets a two year deal.
http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20061020&c ontent_id=1718922&vkey=pr_min&fext=.jsp&c_id=min
But he was endorsed by Kotsay and Kendall, so...
I think
by IndianaAsfan on Oct 20, 2006 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Is this an M.B.A. chat room, or a baseball site?
by froggiethegremlin on Oct 20, 2006 11:54 AM PDT reply actions
We don't take
Speaking for myself, I spend 13 hours a day on the problems of my friends, family, and neighbors, and only 11 hours a day on AN.
Sleep? What's your point?
Strange argument
More important, I just don't believe that it was Billy's job to talk up Macha -- or give him a raise -- in order to convince the players that he was really great. The whole point of the Moneyball approach is that players (and managers) have a certain, measurable value, and that they shouldn't be paid more than they're worth. In fact, for the A's to win, Beane needs to pay players less than they're really worth. And the limitations of Oakland's budget mean that a lot of times we end up with players who are just "good enough," if that. We all know this. Jay Payton is good enough to start for the A's, but there are thirty outfielders in the majors (at least) that would give us more production than he would. Marco Scutaro certainly isn't good enough to be an everyday major-league shortstop, but we play him because we need to. These guys are professionals. They know what people's real skills are and aren't. Beane didn't sabotage Macha. He didn't slam him in the press. He just acknowledged what was true: given our other choices, he was good enough to manage this team at the time. Macha and the A's are professionals. That should have been enough for them (and given the way Oakland played this year, I suspect that for most of them, it was).
by Goodwin on Oct 20, 2006 12:04 PM PDT reply actions
I can't believe all the praise for this diary
Do you think Macha would say he wasn't able to do the job because Beane didn't provide enough public support or offer greater financial incentives? I doubt it.
I can't believe
by ohtobe21likehuston on Oct 20, 2006 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't believe you're ignoring
More to it than Beane
Did these guys discount him after the whole blow up last winter? I doubt it. Did Macha have trouble getting over it? Maybe. I think we can all relate to being in a job and not being happy. To be fair, none of us has to do press conferences and public things like that and can find ways to hide during those times. Not so much so when you manage/coach a major sports team.
I was surprised to hear about the firing, but the articles that followed made it pretty clear that Beane did what had to be done. Any corporate middle manager that lost his subordinates like Macha did would be dismissed as well, although probably not with the kind of golden parachute Macha got.
Will he get another chance? Maybe. I see it more likely he will get a shot in Japan before he gets a shot in MLB again. He might be best served with a year away from the game to reflect. He was never as good or as bad as has been said, and I wish him luck.
by titaniumaardvark on Oct 20, 2006 12:14 PM PDT reply actions
Good points, titaniumaardvark,
Any of those can be true or false, and my premise can still be equally valid.
Realistically. The players cited all have
- Chavez we know has a history as the most ardent Beane backer on the A's
- Kendall was calling for Beane to hire his Dad as A's mgr in articles intended to announce the release. (He always has someone for BB to hire)
- Kotsay and Zito probably have two totally different perspectives.
<Removes pedestals>
by A s Eh on Oct 20, 2006 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Not that I knew him
macha has always been terrible
I hope it's a direct rival of ours ;)
by baseballgirl on Oct 20, 2006 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
sooo.... the angels?
i think thats fair.
by digsthelongball on Oct 20, 2006 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Macha - Bad Leader
Examples:
Dave "Pornstash" Wannstedt
Ray Rhodes
Norv Turner
Macha is better suited as a bullpen coach / Bench Coach.
By the way, what happens to Curt Young and Gerald Perry through all of this? Is it automatically assumed that they'll keep their jobs?
A's said all coached will be retained.
I disagree
different perspective on Macha firing . . .
scroll down to the ninth (9) comment and read what Marty Lurie has to say . . .
by froggiethegremlin on Oct 20, 2006 1:08 PM PDT reply actions
Thanks
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Since we were the loser in the ALCS
No, that's the winner of the LCS.
it happened in '65
by vk on Oct 20, 2006 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting question.
Hmm
Am I getting mixed up with the NFL Pro Bowl maybe?
Boring
So what are the poor A's to do?
Compare the A's organization - manager, coaches, and GM - to Tigger. Which one is more functional, better at what it does, more efficient at exploiting the talent (in a good way), and more a winner. Tigger's successful organization isn't a fluke, the same guys did the same thing for Florida. So what does that tell you about success in this era of baseball? Lots of people think teams are built in the free agency era by the GM, so he's all-important. Clearly, he's a big part of the machine, but he's not the only part.
You also need people who can coax the best performance out of the roster you've got, day-by-day. This is where the A's under Billy Beane fall short. It appears that Beane is too much of a clubhouse meddler, but when you have passive manager like Macha who likes to just sit back and watch what happens (like another fan in the stands) somebody has to step up and absorb the clubhouse chemistry and get involved in the day-to-day, inning-by-inning drama of the season.
The best thing for the A's would be to have a manager who is more hands-on than Macha, more in touch with the players, and more intuitive about who's about to break out and have a big game and who isn't. That kind of manager may not be able to work with Beane, if he's as much a control freak as people say he is.
But the bottom line is that it take more than a great GM or a great manager or a rich owner to build a quality ball club - it takes a complete organization from top to bottom, including an adequate payroll, a great set of coaches, a decent trainer, as well as a talented and motivated roster. The A's haven't put all these elements together during the Beane era, even though they've had some talent that ranges from good to great.
I figger we're not going to see World Series rings in Oakland until these organizational shortcomings are addressed, but getting rid of Macha was a step in the right direction.
Now let's get a manager who Billy trusts enough to back off and let him do the job, a set of coaches (especially hitting coach and trainer) that can keep guys healthy and productive, and another 10-20 million in payroll. Then we'll be celebrating in late October.
I think you summed it up
by Salvatore on Oct 20, 2006 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Byrnes had an interesting take
Byrne touches all the bases
"Byrnes touches all the bases"
well
this year it was kotsay, kendall, zito, crosby, kennedy, harden, ellis, and melhuse. so if all those other guys are beane's picked pets, byrnes is right.
as I recall...
by FoolshGame22 on Oct 20, 2006 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
See ya, Macha!
Byrnes is becoming...
One of the things I like most about Beane is he doesn't let the grass grow under his feet. When he makes a mistake he tries to fix it. That's why TLong/Redman/Rhodes et al were sent elsewhere while still under contract. I am guessing that he regretted the making re-hiring and instead of suffering through another season of doubt he jettisoned Macha. Constrast this with Sabean who had to realize that Felipe Alou, Benitez, Alfonso et al were mistakes and did little to remedy them.
by NoeValley on Oct 20, 2006 3:28 PM PDT reply actions
One of the best posts
The reason Beane is great isn't because of the great moves he makes, it's the dancing he does to deftly avoid the big mistakes.
Anyone can make smart moves as a GM, but the difference between the average ones and the great ones is that they recognize and cover for their mistakes. Beane realizes he made a mistake at this point with bringing back Macha...so he's taking action.
It's those who sit on their hands that find their hands too numb to do anything decisive when the time comes.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 20, 2006 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
A cruder way of saying it....
by Sashulia on Oct 20, 2006 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions
not referring to Macha BTW
But I don't believe Billy crapped out with the rehiring of Macha - if nothing else, I just hope we don't miss Macha's winning percentage.
by Sashulia on Oct 20, 2006 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Beane is a very good GM
An example. Omar Minaya made a huge mistake signing Kris Benson to a big contract last year. This year, he traded Benson for John Maine and Jorge Julio, who was turned into El Duque.
I think it was...
by Salvatore on Oct 21, 2006 6:38 AM PDT up reply actions
He was also accused of singing
'Anyone can make smart moves as a GM'
I agree and disagree
But, I think he sometimes screws up in an effort to land on his feet rather than just cut his losses.
take TLong for example, it wasn't a bad contract, but Howe honoring his playing street and the team consistently moving him from one of position to the next screwed him up.
we got rid of Ramon Hernandez (an excellent value at catcher) and put up with Damian Miller just to toss TLong.
Sure we got Kotsay, but at what price, he's on the books for two more years for a lot of money.
It might have been cheaper to just trade TLong for a lefthanded reliever to Kansas City in the first place.
Lilly's another example, he was good, and we traded a lefthanded starting pitcher for Bobby Kielty? to hell with the dollars, we should have resigned him and traded him midseason, or just kept him.
His replacement Mark Redman, to toss him and Arthur Rhodes we picked up Kendall's contract and lack of offense, I admit he was helpful the last two years, but was he worth the money?
There's nothing wrong with being wrong, just cut your losses in a disciplined fashion and try again.
by connie mack on Oct 21, 2006 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Has it been announced yet...
Nope
Yesterday the Merc suggested the Giants...
I'm sorry...
by jsiegel on Oct 20, 2006 4:37 PM PDT reply actions
I didn't really exactly understand it,
-Cindi.
Is this right?
I don't think Macha was
A great manager? No. A lousy manager? No. Set up for guaranteed failure this year in the area of manager-player relations? Yup. Humiliate "the boss" and watch how the employees' attitudes change, and watch how the boss' morale changes. Every time.
Right
Totally--Macha, IMO,
Personally, I think Ron Washington would be a great choice. I also expect Geren to be named manager. But we'll see...
Unfortunately, I agree
i did not read the author but
So you're saying that
Marty Lurie pulls of the gloves ...
"Someone should think long and hard before thowing 75 million at this over thinker who gets rocked and then says he nit picked too much. Macha gave him his due every game in the press in case Mr. Sensitive Lefty has forgotten."
... dems fightin' words!!!
by GrewUpAtTheColiseum on Oct 20, 2006 5:03 PM PDT reply actions
Gotta Disagree
Macha shouldn't have come back, and when he did, he should have left his resentment back in Pittsburg.
Even so, things would have changed: the players would have seen another side of him, one that their inexperienced minds probably didn't like. And then he's no different, perhaps less understanding than before. Why shouldn't they complain to Beane? Macha had already made clear to them who was number one.
Beane got an important year of continuity from Macha, and confirmation that he cannot manage in a short series. Why keep him? He's peaked.
by dingerpower on Oct 20, 2006 5:39 PM PDT reply actions
I would imagine that
Quit to do what,
the only problem
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Corporate structure is strange
Billy Beane was right
by Salvatore on Oct 20, 2006 6:23 PM PDT reply actions
excellent
by azagtooth on Oct 20, 2006 7:40 PM PDT reply actions
we fired the right guy for the wrong reason
a trained monkey can win 95 games with this lineup. skeeter metrics is coming
the Tigers don't sing Kumbaya
by vk on Oct 20, 2006 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice! And Zumaya
Or "Zoom by ya"
baseball is life
Just a suggestion, skeeter1:
and
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions
skeetermetrics is life
love, Skeeter
Alas
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Taking there time
My guess is they'll eventually offer the job to Dusty Baker who will follow the A's rules (pitch count etc.) because he wants to manage and live in NoCal. BTW, Tony La Russa was Dusty's last MLB manager with the A's in 1986
by SalParadise on Oct 20, 2006 10:49 PM PDT reply actions
I prefer "here time,"
I don't see Dusty in the Green & Gold. I see Washington, Geren, or Bud Black. And <whispering> I see dead people.
I see
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Long shot
by SalParadise on Oct 20, 2006 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't wanna see his undies.
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 20, 2006 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions
WS bound
by SalParadise on Oct 21, 2006 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I noticed my typos after I posted ...
by SalParadise on Oct 20, 2006 11:03 PM PDT reply actions
talking points by Kawakami of the Mercury news
http://mercextra.com/blogs/kawakami/2006/10/18/a-great-beane-macha-moment-i-just-remembered/#more-12 7
maybe beane's the problem
by rickmonday on Oct 21, 2006 2:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Green, Gold and Black
Add Jimmy Rollins and keep Thomas and Bradley, a great team to cheer for!
keeping pitchers in too long.
also... it's the playoffs dummy. you use your bullpen, which is stacked with talent.
at least we got beat by a 3 run homer, not another looked at third strike. that would've been tough.
by rickmonday on Oct 21, 2006 1:44 AM PDT reply actions
In Game 7, do you think
A tlong time ago, in a playoff far far away...
Beltran sees a vision of TLong, gone but having
merged with the Force(d) Out of the Playoffs.
Beltran: Wise Terrance Long, two strikes, what should I do?
TLong: There is no do...or try for that matter.
Beltran: WTF?
Ump: STRIKE THREE!
by calvin @ Athletics Nation on Oct 21, 2006 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Awesome! QOTM nominee.
Macha's side of it -- 'too much interference
The Kotsay thing is almost incomprehensible. I blogged about this... I'm with Nico that there's something wrong with Billy Beane's management style.
Interesting! Two ironies:
- That Kotsay and Haren, the two Macha went to bat for in the post-season, would be two of the players who turned on him
- That two of the decisions most criticized by AN--not starting Kielty vs. LHP and not starting Haren until ALCS Game 4--were (according to Macha) made by Beane against Macha's judgment.
no, Beane wanted Kielty
kotsay's comments ring wrong
by guy incognito on Oct 21, 2006 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Kotsay's Comments Ring True
by Bleeding the Green and Gold on Oct 21, 2006 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions
You're right--
Kotsay is such a dick
Macha totally backs the jerkoff and plays him, and Kotsay is the first guy foaming at the mouth with the press after Macha is fired.
I wished this dipshit played anywhere but here. He's not even any fucking good at what he does. The most overrated player on the A's by far.
hmm...I agree.
by Amnesiac727 on Oct 22, 2006 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Sadly, I feel the same way--
from clubhouse leader to petty backstabber
by guy incognito on Oct 22, 2006 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Spot on
by KJ on Oct 21, 2006 8:56 PM PDT reply actions
Beane calls Macha's views....
My God....I'm beginning to wonder if we're seeing the scales tip on the A's franchise, and if this isn't the beginning of the end for this era in the history of the A's franchise.
Stenbrenner's done a lot of crappy things, but I'm not sure that he's EVER called one of his former managers a LIAR in the press.
There was no reason for Beane to cross that line. Let Macha have his say and just keep your mouth shut.
A lot of you are discussing how recent events have turned your opinion of Kotsay.
My opinion of Beane has just taken a dramatic, negative turn.
Beane's comment
Beane's ego is so fucking huge
I don't even think he's a bad guy or particularly mean--like, say, that prick Kotsay.
But his ego is just so gigantic that he's blinded by it and, consequently, can be an ass.
Yeah, shut up and give Mach his say. If anything, Beane should be humiliated and ashamed that he facilitated an environment in which players unload on a guy after he's fired. That was just despicable, just inexcusable.
I don't really care
My perspective on the second guessing of Beane is a little different. The one constant in the years that the A's have been contenders is Beane. He is the architect of the A's success. The managers come and go, and the team keeps on rolling. The players come and go and still the team keeps on rolling.
And they are a successful franchise, WS win nonwithstanding. Consistency is the key here people. I will take Beane and his "super ego" anytime over any manager out there. Eventually, if we keep making the playoffs, we will see a WS trophy hoisted in Oakland...or Fremont. But not if we don't make the postseason. And Beane has proven that he is the one that engineers the A's success. I will give him the benefit of the doubt long before Macha, Howe, or the next manager.
I would like to see Wash get the job, but in my heart I know Geren will. I can live with that. I hope Wash is at least promoted to bench coach if he's still around.
amen, brother.
by Suck My Moneyballs on Oct 22, 2006 1:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Kotsay will not make it thru the offseason
Kotsay embarrassed Beane and the organization with those comments. Not surprising that he refused to speak with John Shea yesterday (why didn't Macha make his case to Slusser btw).
So if he poured gas on Beane's situation and embarassed organization headed by two classy owners, which decision makers are now in his corner?
by Sashulia on Oct 22, 2006 10:51 AM PDT reply actions
According to the article (at the end),
team reporting, t-shirts
as someone who didn't buy an AN t-shirt because of the "In Billy We Trust" message (along a general tendency for being cheap), I wonder if the current flap will lead to some more personality-neutral shirts?
by vk on Oct 22, 2006 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm designing one that reads,
It's currently in Helvetica 4-point, though, which is a bit of a problem.

























