Payroll Analysis & Roster Predictions For The 2007 A's.
While imagining what free agent we might try to sign or Devil Ray we might try to trade for is interesting enough, it's speculative in the extreme, and unlikely to be particularly accurate (who saw us going after Bradley 12 months ago?) So let's take a look at where things are likely to stand six months from now, always remaining aware of the caveat that I have little idea who Billy's going to see as undervalued out there.
First, these are the players we have under contract for 2007, and how much they'll make. This includes players that haven't yet reached arbitration eligibility. It occurs to me that I don't actually know what the 2007 minimum salary is. I'm gonna round them all to $350K. The minimum will likely be less than that, but given that some pre-arb players will be making slightly more than the minimum, it's probably close enough.
Jason Kendall: $8M (His salary's $13M, but this is the year we get $5M from Pittsburgh)
Mark Ellis: $3.5M
Bobby Crosby: $2.5M
Eric Chavez: $9.5M
Mark Kotsay: $8.03M
Esteban Loaiza: $7M
Rich Harden: $2M
Dan Haren: $2.2M
Dan Johnson: $350K
Nick Swisher: $350K
Antonio Perez: $350K
Joe Blanton: $350K
Huston Street: $350K
Chad Gaudin: $350K
Brad Halsey: $350K
There are others, such as Flores, but these are the ones I'm reasonably sure will be on the 25-man roster next year. That's 14 players at a cost of just over $45M. (It's 15, but given his performance last year and the likely return of the Crosby/Ellis combo up the middle, I don't see Perez as necessary, and assume he'll get sent down to Sacramento)
Next, the players who have reached arbitration. This list is going to include the player, last year's salary, what year of arbitration the player is in, (service time has a big effect on a player's salary in arbitration. It's why Joe Kennedy made $2.4M while Kiko Calero made $850K,) and my guess as to what the player will go for.
Milton Bradley: $3M. 3rd year. (Actually his 4th, but he's missed enough time to injury that his service time isn't enough for free agency) Had a good year, but missed time to injury. Playoff performance may add to his price. $4.75M.
Joe Kennedy: $2.4M. 3rd year. Like Bradley, had a good year, if a short one. Being a reliever will keep his price from going to high. $3.2M
D'Angelo Jimenez: $750K. (his starting salary with the Rangers. I imagine that Oakland paid him whatever the minimum was) 3rd year. I don't know what 62 PA with a .601 OPS and being the guy called in to play in the postseason because 3 other guys are hurt gets you in arbitration, but I don't think it's going to matter since I doubt the A's will offer it to him.
Bobby Kielty: $1.85M. 3rd year. In 2005 he was a 4th OF with a league-average OPS, and that got him a raise of $1M. In 2006 he was a 4th OF with a league-average OPS. Call it another mil. $2.85M
Adam Melhuse: $700K. 2nd year. Kendall's suspension and the A's clinching brought Melhuse 30 more at-bats than last year. I can't see how else he's going to justify a raise. $750K. And if it's any more than that, why not just bring in Jeremy Brown? It's not like this is a position we need to be spending more money on right now.
Kiko Calero: $850K. 2nd year. Had a very good 2006. Value will be limited by being a reliever. $1.5M
Justin Duchscherer: $344K. 1st year. Was in the top 10 relief pitchers in baseball. That plus 2005's selection to the All-Star team ought to lift him up to $1M, rather high for a relief pitcher in his first year of arbitration, but obviously worth it.
Hiram Bocachica: $327K. 1st year. It's taken him 7 seasons since his rookie debut to accrue three seasons of service time. There's a reason for that. $550K, and it wouldn't surprise me if he were let go or traded for someone else no one wants.
Kirk Saarloos: $354K. 1st year. Has a weird line of 7 wins, 7 losses and 2 saves for 2006. I want to digress just a bit here and point out something from Saarloos's numbers this year.
As a starter: 89.1 IP, 4.94 ERA, 1.75 WHIP, 3.72 K/9, 15 HR
As a reliever: 32 IP, 4.21 ERA, 1.40 WHIP, 4.21 K/9, 4 HR
Saarloos is a much better reliever than he is a starter. He's not truly that great of a relief pitcher, but there's value to be had in having a guy who, when one of your real pitchers goes down, can give you better-than-replacement-level innings, unlike such replacements as Windsor and Komine. This is not to say he shouldn't be on the team next year, but plans should definitely not have him in the 5-man rotation rather than as an emergency backup.
That said (and back to the point here), he did start, and that's going to drive up his price in arby-land. $1.2M
Marco Scutaro: $340K. 1st year. Has basically been an everyday player the last few years, albeit not by anyone's choice. He's definitely gotten more selective at the plate. That and his occasional gap power actually gave him a 97 OPS+ last year, de-emphasizing the 'light-hitting' portion of light-hitting middle infielder. $750K
If I'm right about who we're keeping (and close to right about what they'll make) that's 8 more guys and sixteen million more. If you're counting along, that's 22 spots filled and $61M spent. Last year, the opening day payroll was $63M vs $60M the year before. I'm thinking $67M is about right for this year. While less overall tickets were sold, Wolff has claimed that profits were up a notch due to closing the 3rd deck and not having to pay to feed/clean/secure those stands. Plus we'll get some added revenues from the playoffs. Let's take a look at what we need to fill out the roster:
Catchers: Kendall, Melhuse.
Infielders: Swisher (1b/of), Johnson (1b), Ellis (2b), Crosby (ss), Chavez (3b), Scutaro (2b/ss/3b)
Outfielders: Kotsay, Bradley, Kielty, Swisher (also 1b)
Starters: Harden, Haren, Loaiza, Blanton.
Relievers: Street, Duchscherer, Calero, Gaudin, Kennedy, Halsey, Saarloos.
So what's missing there? A 5th OF, a 5th starter, and a DH. You might argue a 1B/OFer, but I think we've already got that in the system. Kielty should obviously play against lefties. Who to partner him with? Dan Johnson. Even in this year where he couldn't seem to do much at all, he still had a .735 OPS against right-handed pitching. I think he can do better, and Swisher's 1B/LF swapping will pay off as we allow these two hitters to play to their matchup strengths.
First: The Designated Hitter. Frank's coming back. Frank wants to come back, Wolff wants him back, and while Billy Beane may think he can do well at this spot for less money, he knows Barton's at least another year away, and he's not going to fight this all too hard, (though he might argue for the sake of trying to say it'll strain the payroll, for the purpose of convincing Wolff & co to raise said payroll. We'll see how that works. The reported offer Oakland made was for 2 years/$6-8M. Frank's response was along the lines of 'we're not there yet'.
Basically, Frank's our free agent signing this year, barring us somehow trading Kotsay or Kendall. Payton's gone. No money to sign him. Witasick's gone too, not that he's needed. While this doesn't bother me much, it does mean that those last two spots on the roster are going to be filled on the cheap.
For the 5th OF spot, this isn't a big deal. Bocachica would do. Doug Clark is an option. Really, there's any number of AAAA fringe players that could be signed for fringe money to occupy a roster spot. The 5th starter, however? Even a below-average starter costs millions on the open market. We're going to have to fill it from within, somehow.
One of the few things we have a glut of are back-end prospects, albeit it they're none of them great ones. Gaudin may be the best option. Great stuff, but he's GOT to bring that K/BB ratio down. You can't pitch in the majors with a sub-1 K/BB ratio, and Gaudin's 143 ERA+ despite that is unusual in the extreme, enough so that it really makes one wonder which is the anomaly, his walk ratio or his ERA?
Other options include Saarloos, (a bad option, as I've mentioned) Halsey, Windsor, Komine, Jerome Williams, Juan Dominguez and Dan Meyer. The new manager's gonna have a lot of fun picking from that crew. I hope he picks well, because this may be the difference between contention and failure in 2007.
In the final analysis, it probably looks like we're "standing pat". Well, maybe, but take into account the following:
I will have gotten at least one crucial element of this completely wrong. Probably more than one. We'll make a trade I've never considered. Maybe we'll be trading for someone I've never heard of. Maybe we'll be trading for someone I never would have guessed was available. Maybe my arbitration guesses are as accurate as the weight of the planet as calculated by the Flat Earth Society. Maybe the A's portion of the proceeds from MLB's sale of the Nationals will go into payroll and not into ownership dividends or a bid to purchase the city of Fremont outright. When I did something like this last year (at http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2005/10/23-nathan_around_these_parts_we.php for those who want to verify what I got right and wrong,) I got the Opening Day Salary pretty much on the nose, missed 3 of the 4 guesses on the arbitration-eligible players by $500K or more, and figured that the $7M we'd have to spend on a free agent would go to a high-priced DH while the 5th starter would be Saarloos. (Like we didn't already know Billy was smarter than me.) Bradley, Loaiza and Thomas were the surprises last year. I trust I don't have to remind everyone what the surprises were the year before. It'll be interesting to see what the surprises will be this year, and just how much of it is going to totally invalidate what I've said here.
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Witasick
It was one year/$1M
Second time I've seen this...
From a brain fart.
This isn't a rosy scenario
Thomas may get too expensive. I almost want to cash my chips in with him and go after Adam Dunn or Jim Edmonds.
Kielty and Kennedy are also expendable given their escalating price tag. I wish that Matt Watson was still around.
No
How about this?
C..Kendall, Brown
1B..swisher, DJ, Dunn
2B..Ellis, Scutaro
SS..Crosby, Scutaro
3B..Chavez, Perez/filler
OF..Bradley, Kotsay, Dunn, Swisher,
DH..DJ, Kielty
P..Harden
P..Haren
P..Blanton
P..Loaiza
P..Saarloos
P..Windsor
P..Flores
P..Gaudin
P..Duke
P..Calero
P..Street
BO
Kendall
Ellis
Bradley
Dunn
Chavez
Swisher
Crosby
DJ/Kielty
Kotsay
Yes
This pen may have been fools gold. I wouldn't sink big dollar into it and would instead allocate it to the offense. The Indians had a great pen in 05 and then blew up in 06. Windsor and Flores should get cracks and guys like Kennedy should be moved.
Maybe
I don't think big dollars will be sunk into this pen, with the possible exception of Kennedy. Duchscherer and Calero will get raises, but both have shown consistent ability that I don't think is a strong candidate for regression. Street's 2nd year wasn't as good as his first, but he was still a well-above-average relief pitcher. He'll get a raise if we buy out his arb years. Gaudin and Halsey will still be near-league-minimum players. Saarloos is an insurance policy. Witasick should be gone. I wish he were.
Wha-?
And all of our major players (Crosby, Chavez, Johnson, et al) are almost certain to play better than they did in 2006. Seriously, do you expect Chavvy to bat .241 again? Crosby to bat .221? The only concern is the Harden and Crosby are injury-prone, but I have a good feeling about this season! :)
Sad thing is
Everyone was expecting bigger and better from those two. Everyone was wrong.
if the numbers are correct
There have really great polls studies done . . .
by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
not less talented ...
A healthy Harden or Chavez and a rejuvenated and healthy Crosby would much, much more than make up for the loss of Zito and Payton.
That said, a Harden or Kotsay injury would hurt that much more ...
Expect BB to wheel and deal in hopes of improving the team's depth.
Nice diary Nate
Nice diary
- I have last year's opening day payroll, at around $66 Million, not 63. One million of the difference may be Ginter who had a major-league contract even though he didn't make the team. Add in the incentives that Thomas (and a couple of other players) earned and the payroll was close to $70 million this year, so the ceiling for 2007 may be a little higher than you're estimating. But not a lot higher: even with a little extra money coming in from the playoffs, I don't imagine the owners would approve a large increase in payroll for the second year in a row.
- Given this, there's probably room to sign Thomas. And like you, I think it's a move that has to be made, even given that his health is still a major risk. Going in to 2006 the plan may have been "1 year of Thomas, and then give the job to Barton," but with Barton having lost most of the year to injury we don't have anyone ready to contribute with the bat.
- Your arb guesses look pretty much right to me. (Maybe half a million more for Bradley, and half a million less for Kennedy, but whatever). I'd expect slight increases for Street, Swisher, and maybe Blanton, who are all in their third year. Beane has usually given his good young players three- or four-year contracts at that point, giving them a little bonus now in return for cost certainty down the road, and I would expect him to keep doing the same. That will probably add 1 or 2 million total to the 2007 payroll.
- Another potential hole to be filled is shortstop. Unlike many here, I still think Crosby can be a very good player if he's ever healthy. Unfortunately back problems sometimes never go away, and (also unlike many here) I don't believe that Scutaro is a real solution for a team that hopes to contend. The A's need to try to figure out what they can expect from Crosby, and plan accordingly.
- There might just be room to keep Payton (at around $6 million), at Kielty's expense. Is it worth it? Probably not, but Beane might feel otherwise. Either way, we'll probably still need that fifth outfielder. Doug Clark is a minor-league free agent. Bocachica might be an option, but he's never really hit major-league pitching. This might be a place where we try to pick up a younger, cheaper Kielty type from another organization, someone who's either blocked or coming off a bad year.
- I don't see where the money would come from for a starting pitcher who's a significantly better bet than one of the cheap options we already have, without some major slashes (trade Kendall or Kotsay).
- Given all the above, I agree with what others have said: we're basically looking at a team that's identical to this year's minus Zito. We might expect a bounce back from Johnson, and better health from Harden and Bradley, but that could be balanced by Thomas or someone else getting hurt. Chavez, Crosby, and Kotsay are looking like they'll never be fully healthy. It will be very interesting to see what Beane does to try to make the team better.
I like the one
Thomas will take at least 2 years for 16 mill to sign him. There is no way I would take this chance given the A's tight payroll.
I would also go hard after Heilman. the mets hate him for some reason. Mota has taken all of the key postseason innings depite being terrible. I would trade Calero for him and then our 5th starter problem is solved. Omar would love Calero.
I agree that Dunn is a better
Thomas' OPS+ this year was 141. 151 in 2004, 131 in 2005. Dunn's was 110. Dunn's career high was 152 in 2004. It was 135 last year.
We'd also pay almost as much in salary for
I doubt
I also think that the Reds are fed up with Dunn. The GM said that he is looking to shed strikeouts from the lineup.
If he's looking for $16 million guaranteed ...
I'd be happy to let him earn $16m ... $20m even ... but no way I'm guaranteeing that kind of money.
Hrm
Checking the numbers, I didn't include that, and I also didn't include the one million we sent to Pittsburgh as part of the Kendall deal. I also didn't include the rest of the 40-man roster, which typically tops out at about $50K, meaning 15 more guys is about $750K, so if you want to include that, there's the $66M.
Given this, there's probably room to sign Thomas. And like you, I think it's a move that has to be made, even given that his health is still a major risk. Going in to 2006 the plan may have been "1 year of Thomas, and then give the job to Barton," but with Barton having lost most of the year to injury we don't have anyone ready to contribute with the bat.
Wolff seems like a pretty calculating guy. When he announced that he wanted to re-sign Thomas, I have to assume that either he intended to do so, or at least intended to make it look like there was a real effort to sign Thomas. It'd look too bad if he didn't. I assume that's why the basics of the contract he offered were leaked. $12-16M over 2 years is definitely a serious offer. And really, how many teams that are actual contenders have a real need for a DH? Taking Wolff's announcement at face value and assuming they do intend to re-sign Thomas, I don't see how he can avoid providing the payroll to do so. Stadium issues aside, Wolff's group bought the A's for more than twice what the Schott/Hoffman group paid for it in 1995. Clearly the franchise makes money, and clearly a LCS appearance is going to help make more money.
I'd expect slight increases for Street, Swisher, and maybe Blanton, who are all in their third year. Beane has usually given his good young players three- or four-year contracts at that point, giving them a little bonus now in return for cost certainty down the road, and I would expect him to keep doing the same. That will probably add 1 or 2 million total to the 2007 payroll.
This seemed likely to me, but I couldn't figure out how to integrate it into the math. While I'm sure he'll do it with Swisher and Blanton, I'm less certain about Street. I think Beane doesn't value relievers as highly, and I think neither do MLB arbitrators. From what I've seen of relievers, their arb deals tend not to be nearly as high as those of starters. Maybe Beane doesn't see the point in signing Street through his arb years if his arb years aren't going to be that expensive. And whether any such deals for Swisher or Blanton are going to add much at all to this year, I don't know.
Another potential hole to be filled is shortstop. Unlike many here, I still think Crosby can be a very good player if he's ever healthy. Unfortunately back problems sometimes never go away, and (also unlike many here) I don't believe that Scutaro is a real solution for a team that hopes to contend. The A's need to try to figure out what they can expect from Crosby, and plan accordingly.
One of my sillier fantasies involved the Yankees freaking out and shipping A-Rod out while paying 3/4 of their portion of the salary and us moving him back to shortstop. I think Crosby's back healing is probably almost as likely (Kidding, folks.) At the moment, I just don't see a real option. We don't have anyone in our farm system ready to play either shortstop or second (if Ellis were moved back to short), and middle infielders with decent gloves and bats aren't that common a commodity. I'm not Marco Scutaro's biggest fan, but there's no cheap options out there that are any better than him.
There might just be room to keep Payton (at around $6 million), at Kielty's expense. Is it worth it? Probably not, but Beane might feel otherwise.
You really see him spending $6M on a guy who hasn't ever exceed a .336 OBP when not playing in pre-humidor Coors Field?
From what I've seen of relievers,
Tell that to the Dodgers. Established, very succesful closers are paid very differently from non-closers and have few comps in arbitration -- Eric Gagne is the only one I can think of. He didn't come cheap.
We could give the Yanks Kots, Ken-Doll and Croz for A-Rod plus $12m in '08 throught he end of his contract. (ok, not really)
Salary chart
http://www.ucscfootball.com/salaries.html
Note that it has Kotsay earning $8 mil in 2007, and lists Perez as being arbitration eligible.
Personally, I don't think the A's need to make a lot of moves (nor can we afford to), but I would trade Melhuse. He's not the catcher of the future (poor 2006 numbers, and he'll be 35 in March), and it's time to get Brown some real big league experience. Saves us at least $350,000, and the only risk is if Kendall gets hurt, plus at some point soon we have to groom a catcher for the next 5 years.
And realistically, we probably shouldn't try to keep both Kielty and Payton. I like them both, but keeping at least $2-3 million on the bench most of the time (Kielty's likely 2007 salary) doesn't make sense. Try Bocachica, or sign a promising minor league free agent.
Lastly, if Thomas wants more than $6-7 mil a year, we should let him walk. He was awesome this year, but what are the odds he'll stay healthy and put up comparable numbers? 50/50? 60/40? How much can we afford to risk?
by andyinfremont on Oct 18, 2006 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions
My take
I'm undecided on Kielty. But if we really need a couple million, we could let him go.
I think the 5th starter comes from our collection. Beane has gathered up such a large supply of probably-not starters that the chances are pretty decent that one of them will magically get it together and become decent. My first guess would be Meyer, second Gaudin.
Nice leg work Nate
Unfortanetly, the answer is no when we're talking about some of our bigger ticket items.
Swish and Street.......get raises..
I don't know
thanks for the work on this, my take
Jason Kendall: $8M (His salary's $13M, but this is the year we get $5M from Pittsburgh)
way too much, trade him if possible
Mark Ellis: $3.5M
keeper
Bobby Crosby: $2.5M
consider moving him to CF, easier on back? could back up SS
Eric Chavez: $9.5M
should hit 6th in lineup
Mark Kotsay: $8.03M
trade if possible
Esteban Loaiza: $7M
keeper for now, possibly trade bait later
Rich Harden: $2M
keeper for now, unless we can get ARod for him and Chavez
Dan Haren: $2.2M
keeper
Dan Johnson: $350K
keeper
Nick Swisher: $350K
keeper, but put him in the outfield, and bench him after every game he strikes out with runners on base and less than two outs.
Antonio Perez: $350K
keeper, but he obviously has to be used differently
Joe Blanton: $350K
sign him to an extension
Huston Street: $350K
ditto
Chad Gaudin: $350K
keeper, try as a starter
Brad Halsey: $350K
keeper at this price
ARBITRATION ELIGIBLE
Milton Bradley: $4.75M.
Total keeper, extension if possible for slightly less, (I'd love 5 years at $3 million/year each)
Joe Kennedy:. $3.2M
too much for his production
Bobby Kielty: $2.85M
I think Bobby Kielty is WAY OVERPAID. We must have someone in the minors who hits left handed pitchers, or else Jose Cruz, Jr brings better defense.
Adam Melhuse: $750K
keeper for now, good defense, and we might trade Kendall
Kiko Calero: $1.5M
keeper, and extend him for three years or so,but we need to use him less games for longer stretches, ideally 60 important one inning appearances per year
Justin Duchscherer: $1M,
TOTAL KEEPER, and extend for longer and then try as a starter
Hiram Bocachica: $550K, and it wouldn't surprise me if he were let go or traded for someone else no one wants.
what does he bring to our bench that 2 buck chuck doesn't? for slightly less money
Kirk Saarloos: $1.2M
keeper, sign him to an extension 3 years @1 mil/year, total bullpen groundball, 6th starter luxury
Marco Scutaro: $750K
keeper, as i've said before, try for a four or five year deal at $500K/year he's worth that.
The basic premise I use is that if we lock up younger, marginal talent at below marginal talent prices they will always have extra value as trade bait. When they develop into average or above average talent, we dominate.
Comments on the comments:
way too much, trade him if possible
Not possible. No one will want him without us taking a chunk of the salary. And at this point we don't have a catcher in the system capable of holding down the job. Take heart in the fact that Kendall's hitting improved over 2005. He probably won't go back to his .300/.400/.400 days, but a singles hitter with a .367 OBP and adequate speed at the leadoff spot isn't the worst thing in the world.
Bobby Crosby: $2.5M
consider moving him to CF, easier on back? could back up SS
We don't have enough center fielders with bad backs?
Mark Kotsay: $8.03M
trade if possible
Somewhat doubtful. At least not unless he hits .314 again. In any case I think a good CF is a pretty useful thing to have in the Coliseum
Rich Harden: $2M
keeper for now, unless we can get ARod for him and Chavez
If there's one thing I think this year has taught us, it's that A-Rod is no substitute for pitching.
Nick Swisher: $350K
keeper, but put him in the outfield, and bench him after every game he strikes out with runners on base and less than two outs.
So basically you want him to be the 4th OF? Kidding. I'm pretty sure I remember reading some stuff the BPro guys did showing that strikeouts aren't any worse than any other kind of out. It might have been in the book about the '04 Red Sox talking about Mark Bellhorn. In any case, I can't see how we could be anything but pleased with his progress this last year. He's striking out more, but he's also walking more and hitting more homers. How can people be seriously contemplating spending $10M on Adam Dunn when we already have Adam Dunn-with-a-funny-dance?
Antonio Perez: $350K
keeper, but he obviously has to be used differently
As what, though? I don't trust his bat or his glove to be an everyday player, and it's apparent that the utility spot doesn't work for him. I really wonder if that '05 season wasn't a bit of a fluke. Remember, it was with the Dodgers. There were some good pitchers in the NL West that year, but there were a lot more bad ones.
Joe Blanton: $350K
sign him to an extension
Seems likely.
Huston Street: $350K
ditto
Maybe less likely.
Chad Gaudin: $350K
keeper, try as a starter
But he HAS to get that walk rate down. Zito is proof that good enough stuff can overcome a certain amount of walks, but Gaudin's walk rate was insane this year.
ARBITRATION ELIGIBLE
Milton Bradley: $4.75M.
Total keeper, extension if possible for slightly less, (I'd love 5 years at $3 million/year each)
WAY too optimistic on pricing there. A guy who can hit like he does and play either a decent CF or an excellent corner OF spot is going to go for more than twice that, even with Bradley's baggage.
Joe Kennedy:. $3.2M
too much for his production
Had a heck of a good year, but yeah, I can agree with that. I'm also wondering if I might not be overestimating this one.
Bobby Kielty: $2.85M
I think Bobby Kielty is WAY OVERPAID. We must have someone in the minors who hits left handed pitchers, or else Jose Cruz, Jr brings better defense.
We might have someone in the minors who hits LHP, but to the tune of a .965 OPS? I don't think so. And by no means does Cruz' glove make up for his hitting.
Kiko Calero: $1.5M
keeper, and extend him for three years or so,but we need to use him less games for longer stretches, ideally 60 important one inning appearances per year
I'm not really concerned with the length of his appearances. Obviously I don't want him overworked, and it seems likely by his usage patterns that he's treated a little more gingerly than the younger pitchers, but so long as our best pitchers are working the innings that matter (tie games and one-run leads, NOT three-run leads just because they're called "save situations"), I'm all for it.
Justin Duchscherer: $1M,
TOTAL KEEPER, and extend for longer and then try as a starter
I just wonder if he might not be a pitcher who has too much value as a reliever to try starting. (Then again, the upside...I wonder if Theo Epstein is going through the same thing with Papelbon?)
Hiram Bocachica: $550K, and it wouldn't surprise me if he were let go or traded for someone else no one wants.
what does he bring to our bench that 2 buck chuck doesn't? for slightly less money
A funny name? Really, with Zito moving on, I think it's important to keep up the funny-name quotient. Milton Bradley, Justin Duchscherer, Huston Street, Nick Swisher and Kiko Calero can't do it alone!
Kirk Saarloos: $1.2M
keeper, sign him to an extension 3 years @1 mil/year, total bullpen groundball, 6th starter luxury
Marco Scutaro: $750K
keeper, as i've said before, try for a four or five year deal at $500K/year he's worth that.
There's no way you'll get someone to sign an extension with a per-year average of less than they'll make in their first year of arbitration. I'd say signing Saarloos for three years would cost $6-8M. Scutaro for his arb-years probably $4-5M. And given that both of these guys are basically insurance policies to begin with, I don't see why they need to be locked up long-term.
The basic premise I use is that if we lock up younger, marginal talent at below marginal talent prices they will always have extra value as trade bait. When they develop into average or above average talent, we dominate.
Marginal talent is just that. If we had tried to trade Perez or Scutaro at the deadline, we would have gotten bupkis. Saarloos might have fetched something for a team that needed someone for the rotation but given he was in OUR rotation at the time, we didn't have that option.
Nice job, Nate
I also agree with your last paragraph. Beane will definitely do something unexpected. I believe that he may well, like last offseason, acquire an established starting pitcher, either through free agency or trade. If Harden could be counted on to be healthy, I think Beane might be comfortable with giving Saarloos/Halsey/Gaudin/Williams, etc. 30 starts in the #5 spot. However, if Harden goes down and no one is acquired, that number jumps to 50-65 starts, and there is no way the A's can afford that. They could wait to acquire someone until Harden went down, but that would violate one of Beane's basic beliefs: If you wait until you have to make a deal, then you are screwed.
Confirm on Perez
-The market for signing Thomas should stay in our favor since he's limited to a select few teams that need a DH. I don't think we can afford to extend to 2 yrs/16 mil...it's gotta be in the 12 range to make it feasible. He's guaranteed to have at least one lengthy DL visit in that time.
-dylantravis is dead on with starter comments, the A's can't afford to have 60 starts come from that group. Harden simply has to stay healthy to return to the playoffs.
-another guy who will improve is Loaiza. His 2nd-half performance is more indicative of what he'll be in a comfort zone in year 2.
by calpolyjackson on Oct 17, 2006 10:55 PM PDT reply actions
The Angels...
And the wild card is becoming less and less winnable every year now that the Central teams (Tigers, ChiSox) spend money.
by calpolyjackson on Oct 17, 2006 10:59 PM PDT reply actions
The angels will get better...
by mattcschmidt on Oct 18, 2006 1:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope they add A-Rod!!!!
I bet you didn't know that the A stands for Albatross!!!
by saint @ Athletics Nation on Oct 18, 2006 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions
careful what you wish for, saint
[FWIW, A-Rod lifetime vs Zito: 14/66 (.212 AVG), .307 OBP, 19 K. (OK, he also has 5 HR and a lifetime .470 SLG vs Z, but only 16 RBI; I choose to interpret that as Zito picking the right spots to pitch to him.)]
I think the Angels have enough pitching and prospect depth to absorb the acquisition cost of A-Rod without negatively impacting their competitiveness. And with A-Rod facing the A's 18 times ... <shudder>
On the other hand, you sure as heck were right from the beginning about Saunders.
PLATOONS
Why don't we bring back the platoon hard-core?
If we stop the nonsense of warming pitchers up to face one batter, we could go back to a 10 man pitching staff with a five man rotation and some good live arms at the ready in Sacramento.
Consider this bullpen:
Street(1 inning/appearance)
Duke (2-3 innings/appearance)
Calero (1-2 inning/appearance)
Saarlos 2-4 innings/appearance)
Lefthander good for 1-3 innings at a time
And this rotation
Harden
Haren
Blanton
Loaiza
Gaudin or Williams, Meyer, consider bringing in a 200 inning guy.
that leaves 15 spots on the roster for players
We could put together solid platoons at our different positions in 2 places (1b and cf), play seven other regulars:
c Kendall/Melhuse
1b Johnson/platoon mate (should also play 3b)
2b Ellis/Scutaro/Perez
ss Crosby/Perez/Scutaro
3b Chavez/Perez
lf Swish/
cf platoon
rf Bradley
dh Thomas
and still have two positions left over which I would use on a third catcher and an extra outfielder, OR tell Scutaro/Perez and Johnson to get to the outfield and start shagging flies.
I think over the course of the season the leagues undervaluing of the platoon and overvalueing of LOOGYs and the like has created a serious market inefficiency
5 man bullpen
first I see Dusty Baker...
by Cutthemullet on Oct 18, 2006 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions
2007 is not the A's year...
Are you suggesting that the A's give up then?
Saunders sucks!!!!
by saint @ Athletics Nation on Oct 18, 2006 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Kelvim Escobar.
DH
by axbake @ Athletics Nation on Oct 18, 2006 7:36 AM PDT reply actions
that would be great
by rickeyrocks on Oct 19, 2006 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Sheffield
by mikedaviswhereareyou on Oct 18, 2006 8:09 AM PDT reply actions
You got it Nate:
Roll ON!!!
by saint @ Athletics Nation on Oct 18, 2006 9:11 AM PDT reply actions
Stand Pat
Except that I'm absolutely certain that that is NOT what is going to happen. I touched on this in the last paragraph of the original post, but I should probably state my expectations more clearly.
My original post predicts no major changes because it's a high-percentage shot. It's likely Kotsay will be the starting center fielder. It's likely we'll re-sign Thomas and Bradley. It's likely the 5th starter will be someone currently in the A's organization. It's highly likely Kendall will be the starting catcher. It's likely we'll be counting on the infielders to have a better and healthier 2007 than 2006.
And it's likely that at least one of those likely outcomes will not, in fact, take place. I don't know which one, but I'm convinced nonetheless. Billy Beane knows more about this than I do. He will see something that can be done that I don't see, and he will do it.
Website
- Salaries
- Arbitration Years
- Bonuses
uhhh
Read the Fine Print at bottom
by Colorado Fan on Oct 18, 2006 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Free Agents to consider
Ted Lilly, Tony Armas Jr., Jason Schmidt are FA to consider. Mulder is washed up...a once feared ace that fade away like Jack McDowell. But who knows if he can come back.
But one thing I want is some RBI guys. Beane got his OBP guys but that's it. They get on base and stay on base. We need some guys that can drive in runs.
Garciaparra (although injury prone see:Bobby Crosby), Aubrey Huff (couldn't hit NL pitching), Bonds (he still wants big $$$).
Sign Payton if the price is right. Preston Wilson should be cheaper and give you the same results.
by What Would Rickey Do on Oct 18, 2006 2:47 PM PDT reply actions
That doesn't make sense
There are no "rbi guys" who aren't "on base" guys. They are the same guys.
by The Hypocrite on Oct 18, 2006 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions
What I mean is..
by What Would Rickey Do on Oct 19, 2006 5:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Ok.
Just because someone has > 100 RBI doesn't mean that he is clutch.
Getting on base, hitting for power, for average, are all much more consistent and common skills than hitting with RISP / clutchiness.
He wants Derek Bell
by BlameChannel53 on Oct 19, 2006 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions
from the contra costa times today
Joe Blanton $327,000 Under 2 years Would the A's trade him?
Kiko Calero $850,000 Salary arbitration Not a free agent until '10
Justin Duchscherer $345,000 Salary arbitration Big raise due for his results
Ron Flores $327,000 Under 2 years Racked up frequent flier miles
Brad Halsey $346,000 Under 2 years Candidate for rotation
Rich Harden $1 million $2 million Signed through '08; team option '09
Dan Haren $700,000 $2.2 million Signed through '09; team option '10
Joe Kennedy $2.4 million Salary arbitration Free agent after 2007
Esteban Loaiza $6 million $7 million $8 million in '08; $7.5 million team option in '09
Kirk Saarloos $354,000 Salary arbitration Swingman would prefer to start
Huston Street $340,000 Under 2 years Long-term extension time?
Jay Witasick $1 million $1.75 million Injured nearly all of '06
Barry Zito $8.25 million Free agent Which big market does he go to?
CATCHERS 2006 2007
Jason Kendall $11 million $13 million# He's willing to redo contract
Adam Melhuse $700,000 Salary arbitration Mired on bench a second year
INFIELDERS 2006 2007
Eric Chavez $9.5 million $9.5 million Signed through '10; team option '11
Bobby Crosby $750,000 $2.5 million $3.5 million in '08; $5.25 million in '09
Mark Ellis $2.25 million $3.5 million $5 million team option in '08
Dan Johnson $330,000 Under 2 years Is he a major leaguer?
Antonio Perez $335,000 Salary arbitration Non-tender candidate?
Marco Scutaro $340,000 Salary arbitration Most valuable sub in ball
Frank Thomas $3.1 million Free agent Both sides want an extension
OUTFIELDERS 2006 2007
Milton Bradley $3 million Salary arbitration Multiyear time?
Bobby Kielty $1,875,000 Salary arbitration Getting pricy for a backup
Mark Kotsay $7.05 million $8 million $7 million in 2008, then free agent
Jay Payton $4 million Free agent Most interesting free-agent decision
Nick Swisher $335,000 Under 2 years Another multiyear candidate
Total $66.5 million $44.45 million
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/sports/baseball/mlb/oakland_athletics/15795578.htm
More comments on the comments:
Was he a Super Two last year? If not, it's actually '09.
Ron Flores $327,000 Under 2 years Racked up frequent flier miles
I'm pretty sure that we ship the River Cats in and out by bus, not plane.
Kirk Saarloos $354,000 Salary arbitration Swingman would prefer to start
Maybe someone would take him as a 'major league starter' in trade? I'd rather trade him than Blanton.
Adam Melhuse $700,000 Salary arbitration Mired on bench a second year
I suppose they're talking about Kendall's infrequent days off, but really he's been a bench-warmer for four years now. Five if you count his 2001 season with Colorado.
Dan Johnson $330,000 Under 2 years Is he a major leaguer?
Compared to who, soon-to-be World Series champ Neifi Perez? Sure.
Bobby Kielty $1,875,000 Salary arbitration Getting pricy for a backup
Not that pricey for a platoon player who hits his side of the platoon for better than a .900 OPS, even if it is the short side.
Jay Payton $4 million Free agent Most interesting free-agent decision
As in, it's going to be interesting to see what he says in the media once it's apparent that Oakland's front office hasn't been taking his calls?

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