Changing Their Stripes
Sometimes you just have to pause and tip your cap to your opponent. The Tigers have done something in this series that no one expected. They've shown patience and have approached the A's pitchers in a method more reminiscent of the Yankees than the free swinging Motowners from the regular season.
They had an outstanding approach in every single game. And Rogers obviously had a great plan on how to pitch against the A's. It also helped that the A's approach was just miserable and as though the A's didn't get a scouting report before the game.
If you had told me before the series started that the A's wouldn't get a hit from Frank Thomas for the first three games, I would tell you they would be down 0-3. And that's exactly the case. Thomas carried the A's offense for the latter half of the season and maybe people have learned how to pitch to Frank a little more effectively or he's tired or he's pressing. Maybe it's a little of everything. But Thomas and Swisher are keys to this team's offense. But Thomas more than anyone.
Stop the D'Angelo Jimenez complaining too. No one wants Jimenez out there, but you're essentially down to your fourth infielder. The truth is that you win and lose as a team. The A's approach at the plate was awful, especially for an ump who had a very tight strike zone. The Tigers looked like the green and gold today. And you're never going to win a game without scoring runs.
The only objective the A's should have at this point is to try to get some respectability. It's easy for all the columnists who were saying the A's were going to win this series to jump ship. And even though the A's beat a team that was probably superior to them in the first round, expect to start to hear the familiar refrains about the team. People love to hate our lovable muppets.
Congrats to Rich Harden on a successful postseason start. You had an excellent game after an understandably rusty first two innings. I truly hope that if we don't see you again in 2006, that we'll have you for an entire 2007. The prospect makes me very excited.
Any way, the season comes down to Danny Haren against Jeremy Bonderman, the kid who will look to stab the organization that traded him away in the heart. Expect to see an amped Bonderman tomorrow as he's always loved beating the A's. This would be an ultimate victory for him. Haren remains the A's hope to extend the series one more game and give Barry Zito a chance to end his career in green and gold on a much brighter note.
But truthfully, the A's need to be the patient hitters they've been all season long. Make Bonderman throw strikes. Take a lesson from the Tigers who've gone against the old saying and have been able to change their stripes.
279 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
the Tigers have played like
If the A's have any chance -- even to make this series a bit closer than it has been -- they are going to have to play like the better team.
On a lighter note, Tim Hudson will be on the postgame show.
Couldn't agree more...
I'm just glad I didn't have to go into the off season thinking that 0-12 in clinching games was still there.
Hey great year so far, considering the injuries we've had I'm VERY pleased with this season.
The Tigers are just playing like they always do
The A's are the ones who seem to be so fixated on "post-season baseball" being so different they have to go out there and try and be something they aren't.
To me, the most encouraging thing that happened today was Nick Swisher actually putting a ball in play. He got thrown out, but at least the Puddy Tats had to work a little for the out.
It would be nice if the A's would play at least one game in Detroit as they played all season, and super-nice if the Tigers would play like they did oin their late-season tailspin. That's the only thing that can turn this turkey around.
I totally agree
by Little Lebowski Urban Achievers on Oct 14, 2006 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions
The Tigers are singles hitters
Pretty much
Marcus Thames? Craig Monroe? Curtis Granderson?
Have you looked at the A's slugging percentage? The Tigers?
Not a single 30-HR guy on their team.
Then again, that could also be a product of that ginormous ballpark.
Detroit had a slugging
For comparison, the White Sox were 1st with 464, the Pirates last, with 397.
Just because the Tigers don't have a guy who achieved some arbitrary number doesn't mean that they have less power than the A's.
Pretty much all the Tigers starters, with the exception of Sean Casey, have good or at least decent extra base hit abilities.
In this series it's been singles and walks
In this series, the Tigers have 28 hits: 18 singles, 5 doubles, 5 homers. The A's have 21 hits: 13 singles, 5 doubles, and 3 homers. The Tigers have an OBP of .356 to .290 for the A's. That's the difference in the series, not the two extra homers.
Another big stat is 24 SOs for the A's, and only 15 for the Puddy Tats. The only A who can score on a strikeout is Scutaro, and he needs to be on second base to do it.
My point was that
Oh and if anything
by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 13, 2006 4:53 PM PDT reply actions
but that pressure will build with each
I'm keeping some hope for a 4 game win streak
nice summary
and passion. i wouldnt have minded if
payton charged the mound today after
rogers struck him out in the 7th and
had a rather extended celebration on
the mound. i dont like to see the a's
just take this crap tamely without a
fight.
apart from bradley, kotsay and at times
kendall there hasnt been another player
whose shown me that he really and truly
cares. and as a fan that's what really
bugs me.
by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 4:56 PM PDT reply actions
Dude you need to start watching hockey
by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 13, 2006 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
well ...
detroit today;)
by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I Disagree
wow
by AsFanTexas on Oct 13, 2006 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
the colliseum was pumped
certainly didnt channel their energies into
the game. i think more there is more than
one player who played the first two games
with stars in his eyes just happy to
be there to care about moving one step
further. or perhaps the national attention
was a bit much for the younger players. i'd
like to see some guys actually feel a little
upset about losing games in the postseason,
rather than laying back and waiting for the
next day without changing the game plan.
especially if that game plan isnt working.
by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Charging the mound...
by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Oct 13, 2006 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
did you see the way Rogers celebrated?
i officially hate kenny rogers after today's game
for dominating the a's the way he has. and shoving
it up our nose for good measure.
by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree.
by poetwee on Oct 13, 2006 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions
i posted this in the other thread
jimenez has a better series average
than:
thomas
chavez
swisher
scutaro
by AsFanTexas on Oct 13, 2006 4:58 PM PDT reply actions
Thanks Blez
I am not giving up but it is fair to give the Tigers and Leyland their due. Macha is a good skipper but Leyland is the man. I have a feeling if Leyland was the A's manager that Harden would have started game 1 with Zito going in game 2. The rotation never lined up well for this series. Game 2 is critical and the A's wasted their limited offense on a weak Loaiza performance.
by yblood2hof on Oct 13, 2006 4:59 PM PDT reply actions
pitching rotation
as has already been pointed out several times
earlier. i just didnt see the merit of loiaza
pitching second but anyway billy beane made the
call and there you have it.
but i must say that with the way the a's offense
has been going this series the order of the
pitching rotation is probably immaterial to
the final outcome. unless we get our offense
going its going to be a short series.
by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
This is the cap being tipped. <tip>
The thing that really kills me inside is the idea that the Coliseum will sit quiet next week. That there'll be no more foul lines on the grass, no more drummers in the stands, no more chants and Stomper dances and endless hours of our boys on the field.
I love October baseball, and the idea of it ending is just heart-wrenching. The idea of never seeing Barry Zito stride out on that field in a white uniform with green socks at his knees breaks my heart. I wanted to see him in a World Series game. I wanted to see him stare down the competition in Game 1.
The past month and a half have been rough for me, but I've always been able to come home to the A's, and that means everything to me. They gave us one hell of a ride, and it's genuinely made a difference in my life. I'm not ready for it to be over.
Seeing them in the ALCS is amazing, even with the losses... And they may be down 3-0, but honestly, I'm not ready to give up yet. The boys were NAILS for quite awhile this season, they've made it so far this season, let's just give 'em some hope and joy and excitement until the very last minute of their ride in the playoffs. Because it's sure as hell not over yet.
We've seen before that it's not over, it's never over until that final damn out. Haren's a big game pitcher, tomorrow's a big game. I really believe these boys won't go down quietly -- let's make this a race. There's more baseball to play.
"No. It's Oakland."
Amen Kyli
by The Elephant on Oct 13, 2006 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions
It sure is hard being down this way
Kielty DP'd in his only appearance, but the A's were already down 3-0.
Those things that went our way last week are not going our way this week, and here we are - in a position we all hate. And more than likely, we're going to have at least one more painful game where we all turn off the TV set after yelling at one more out in yet another painful inning of a frustrating game. Then, we count the days until Spring Training. It's how baseball works. 29 teams will go home frustrated. We just never want it to be us.
And Kielty absolutely LACED that ball
by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 13, 2006 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Hitting lefty
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 13, 2006 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey I am not going to stop
thats a cop out
thomas, chavez and swisher have made just as many mistakes as jimenez
this jimenez bashing is stupid, hes not a money player, hes not supposed to carry us
by AsFanTexas on Oct 13, 2006 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
He's our fourth infielder for
by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 13, 2006 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
hey all-knowing AN veterans
by HugeAthleticSupporter on Oct 13, 2006 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
so being a athletics supprter means...
by HugeAthleticSupporter on Oct 13, 2006 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
criticize
- to find fault with
- to judge the merits and faults of; evaluate
Bobby Crosby is frequently hurt. This time it's his back, but it's always something. In my opinion, he is a puss. Calling someone a name can qualify as criticism.
by HugeAthleticSupporter on Oct 13, 2006 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions
You're right
for the A's...
by HugeAthleticSupporter on Oct 13, 2006 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
<Lotus Notes was better>
How do you figure?
I think a valid complaint is that the A's want to emphasize defense, and are willing to tolerate o'fers offensively to get it. Macha wants Kotsay in the lineup against the lefties over Kielty because he gives the A's the best defensive outfield. Fine, I can accept that and get behind it. However, your defensive infield is more important than outfield, yet Jimenez gets sent out there despite making defensive plays college coaches don't tolerate out of their second basemen. Now, the counter argument is who would I rather have out there? Ginter, for one. He is no worse than Jimenez defensively, and I happen to think a little better. He also has the potential to be more effective offensively. I realize that the A's would have had to sign him for next year, but I just wish they would be honest when they give the reason Ginter wasn't added to the roster. His defense had nothing to do with it. Macha described it as "average." Well, Jimenez is below average.
by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
FiF?
by TempletonPeck on Oct 13, 2006 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
He's actually the
- Chavez
- Crosby
- Elllis
- Swisher
- Scutaro
- Perez
- Jimenez/Johnson
by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
There ya go Mike
re
Forget the series, just win tomorrow.
Bonderman matchup
by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions
are you sure?
Of course, this is the postseason.
My fault
Thanks for the correction.
by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Blez....Great writeup
Thanks, OP
by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 13, 2006 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I am convinced that ...
It is wild....
by OaktownPower on Oct 13, 2006 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
It looks bad right now,
Bring on the AL west champions of 2007.
By the way
by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 13, 2006 5:08 PM PDT reply actions
Hang on a minute...
OK we're ready--can we start Game 3 now?
Scutaro's hit was a bad AB?
The A's seem incapable of making adjustments, and it has frustrated me for years. I don't understand how you take the same approach at-bat after at-bat when it isn't working. No adjustments whatsoever. Someone needs to remind Chavez there is a left field as well. I don't mind the lack of success when you're doing everything you can to be successful, but the stubborn adhearance to one approach is inexcusable from professional hitter, IMO.
by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Couldn't agree more, Blez,
The Jimenez whining is perplexing to me. The A's middle-infield, not by their own choosing is Scutaro and Jimenez.: A back-up and his back-up, starting, front and center. Put that out there for 162 games and you will not be in the playoffs, ever.
I feel I have only one legitimate whine and that is what I believe was a very poor selection for the ALCS rotation. People as wise and intelligent as the A's brass are should have seen the importance of getting Haren out there in the first three games over Loaiza and Harden, who--by no fault of their own--were simply not as likely to come up big.
But really, it wouldn't have mattered. The Tigers have simply been better at adjusting to the situation and doing what they need to do to win. Consider the hat tipped. But the white flag not yet waved. Not yet.
The lack of adjustments from the A's
by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 13, 2006 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Me too, and I think it's the real key
You can't take months to figure it out and adjust when you're in a short series.
What adjustments?
its called macha
by guy incognito on Oct 13, 2006 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions
The irony being...
by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Oct 13, 2006 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
The only flooring...
There's also the argument that Blanton should have started somewhere. (We're just looking for something resembling change)
Right...
by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Oct 13, 2006 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Regarding the middle infield...
It's a tough call--
Ultimately, just because we can't afford another injury, I think you have to play it safe and go with Marco Scutaro and Neifi Perez.
I just wanted to add
Their heart just hasn't caught up with their bats yet. But tomorrow they have a chance to change that.
Also,
I REALLY MISS MARK ELLIS
by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 13, 2006 5:10 PM PDT reply actions
Oh yeah,
I'll wait for eamb to post a graphic
Why are all the really amusing comments
Not saying all amusing comments are true,
by Salvatore on Oct 13, 2006 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's the story
by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Oct 13, 2006 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
arod
by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
It pains me so much....
Well said, Blez
The A's just have to avoid the sweep tomorrow. And I'm glad we have Haren on the mound to do it. Hopefully, some of the bats can get it together. All is not lost. Not yet.
Good recap
The good news is we get to watch the A's
by A'sfansince1970 on Oct 13, 2006 5:18 PM PDT reply actions
Just Win One Game....
And then see what happens, if by chance, Zito get another start and the A's get another shot at Robertson.
And, perhaps, we all get one more day to see a game in Oakland...then maybe even one more....
But it all starts with one game tomorrow.
Just win one game.
My gut tells me that Haren
My gut tells me that
My Gut Says
probably
by guy incognito on Oct 13, 2006 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
My gut says
by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 13, 2006 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions
pre-post-mortem
We are back into the elite class of teams now, and we have made it further into October than any Beane team thusfar, even whilst having our team utterly decimated by injuries for whole stretches of the season. Shucks, tonight was Richie's 10th start of the season and it's the middle of October. We don't even have Duke right now and Ellis was gone as of a week ago Wednesday.
No excuses, but it's very tough to do what we came to this point to do without key components, especially against a team so hot and so focused and so well-managed and so worthy as these Tigers. They are playing exceptionally, and we're playing like we always do in May, but that shouldn't dampen the achievements our boys have accomplished in this most memorable year.
I will leave my sig up until the last hope is extinguished... a lot of you wanted me to change it a million times over the course of the season but I am not that kind of fan and wouldn't know how to be. I put that up the day we signed Frank Thomas and it stays until we are eliminated.
Remember all the fun, all the thrills we have had this year as you watch tomorrow, and be thankful and show love and gratitude no matter what the outcome. Never forget that this is the team that does the most with the least, perhaps in all of sports, and that we made it on guts and grit and grind further than the vast majority of MLB this time around.
Great Post
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
The more I think about it....
I'll say it once more,
by Salvatore on Oct 13, 2006 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I am sure I am speaking for others here
Let's go guys!!! Make those Tigers remember who we are that they aren't. Division Champs! So let's go out there and ACT LIKE IT tomorrow!!!
Keeping the faith!!!
by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 13, 2006 5:25 PM PDT reply actions
all true
To date DET have played very well but I can't help but think that the two pitchers' who this team really relied on to come through, failed to do their jobs-Zito and Loza. For me, this series was over after the first 3 innings of game 1. "Fearful In The Zone" reared it's ugly head and Loza's pitiful attempted just finished them off.
I suppose the only good thing about losing in 4 games is I won't need to sit through Zito pitching in G and G ever again. Wear It Barry...you failed. Good Bye. Good Riddance. Take your goofy act down south , or better yet, to NY where they'ii eat you alive.
Offensively, well what can you say. I think we might have been all fooled, or were willing to be fooled, when the A's some how beating Santana. Then A's go on to beat some idiot named Boof and a late 30's Radke with a bum shoulder. All is right with the mighty A's O!!! Guess again.
If it sounds like a duck, walks like a duck, farts like a duck...well then, it's a duck. The statheads on this site love to point out "sample size". Well, the A's, once again this year, sucked. And it's just not SLG % or OBP but its the apparent inability to play simple, little league, baseball. First batter hits a double, no outs, and he gets stranded...time after time after time. Fuck, i absolutley hate that shit. And somewhere Dave Hudgens is drunk as a monkey, throwing darts at a billy beane picture and laughing at this poor offensive display.
Can Haren win tomorrow? Maybe, but I doubt it. Have the A's had what might be a successful year? No.
Nothing less but winning it all should be the A's ultimate expectation. I definitely know it's mine.
Time to reload for '07.
I'm disturbed that you know
AFLAC
I am not going to argue or anything
Game 1 was awful. No doubt.
But calling Zito a failure, I don't agree. He has been a stellar athlete for us since his first game here. I appreciate all that he has done, and will miss him a great deal.
But that is just my little humble opinion.
by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 13, 2006 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Zito
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I do agree about the offense
Haren will win tomorrow
Your criticism of Barry is too harsh. He's pitched well for Oakland over his career and next year's staff won't be as good without him. That said he tanked Game 1, something which is completely unacceptable from an "Ace" pitcher.
However, the venom directed towards the offense is probably justified.
this year
win the world series. the league is wide
open without a truly dominant team. next
year who knows: the angels and rangers
are not going to stay pat in the offseason
and the yankees are going to strengthen
their pitching as well.
by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 5:30 PM PDT reply actions
Winning 4 straight
Nice pick-me-up
puts on mittens, earmuffs, bullet-proof vest
okay, bring on Game Four.
by AsBrand on Oct 13, 2006 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Biggest A's fan tomorrow
by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 5:34 PM PDT reply actions
Rock on! LET'S DOOOOOOOOOOOO IT!
by A'sfansince1970 on Oct 13, 2006 5:36 PM PDT reply actions
GAME 4 LINEUP
Kendall C
Kotsay CF
Payton LF
Bradley RF
Kielty DH
Chavez 3B
Swisher 1B
Scutaro SS
Kiger 2B
I'd rather go down trying to find a way to win then throwing out the same lineup. I'd even think of starting Johnson over Swisher for a game. Sit down the quiet bats. At this point, what do we have to lose?
by Dann on Oct 13, 2006 5:40 PM PDT reply actions
Jimenez only shows how value Ellis really is
Because of that, yes, I am going to complain about Jimenez. Just so we're clear, he's not alone in the reason we're 0 and 3. Nor will I blame him for if/when we lose this series. But, if he made the plays Ellis would have, we'd have had a very good chance of coming into this game 2-0 and not 0-2.
I won't blame Jimenez for our losses because nothing is guaranteed and just because Ellis normally makes those plays that he would have, but I like the odds. But the same easily can be said of our offense showing up too. But I completely blame him for not being Ellis' clone. He obviously wasn't watching when Wash gave him the "Clone" sign.
I'd like Kiger to get second for game 4 though. He can't do any worse then Jimenez defensively, I seriously doubt Jimenez will tear it up offensively. So let's give the kid a shot and who knows, because the Tigers won't have a book on him maybe he'll surprise us.
in what kind of world ...
5-2/3 innings, 3 runs, 5 hits, 5 walks, 105 pitches, only 56 strikes?
I think it can be argued convincingly that he pitched worse than either Zito or Loaiza. This is precisely the sort of start Zito was having mid-season where oaktoon was saying "Cy Young! Cy Young!" while everyone else pointed out how awful Z's peripherals were and that he was getting extremely lucky. (And remember that Kotsay made 2 excellent plays to rob the Tigers of hits off Harden, and there were lots of line drives right at infielders; low BABIP is not a repeatable skill for 99% of pitchers.)
I feel today's game vindicated
But with Zito, Harden wobbly, Haren, Loaiza, Zito, Harden awesome, Haren, who knows what might have been...?
I'll buy the overall argument ...
loyalty will kill you
by guy incognito on Oct 13, 2006 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think by any estimation
by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Chavvy makes the play in 4th ...
I'll grant that it's a bit of specious argument -- but there's no way to argue that Harden was clearly superior to either Loaiza or Zito.
No, No. No. No.
However, it is profoundly not a Zito-type start. When Harden can manage to actually throw the ball over the plate, he is very difficult to hit. Zito walks as many batters as he does not because he has bad control, but because he has to nibble since his pitches are extremely hittable if left over the plate.
Why argue for Harden to pitch game 1? Well, it was certainly plausible, and turned out to be true that he would have control problems, but he has never had those problems in the last two years when healthy. Further, even with some walks, he can get batters out with his dominant stuff as he in fact did in this very game.
It can only be argued sophistically that he did not pitch better than Zito or Loaiza.
you wanna talk sophistry?
Harden pitched like crap today. Yeah, maybe not as crappy as Zito and Loaiza (though I don't recall Z or ELo tossing 55-foot breaking balls), but still crappy.
Over the course of 32 starts in a year (when/if both are healthy) -- shit, yeah, I'll take Harden, too. By any measure except wins and health (and the former being significantly dependent on the latter), Harden is a superior pitcher to Barry. But Harden's health is questionable, and he's quite obviously still in mid-March form (and 1-2 more starts ain't gonna change that).
You're correct in your analysis of why Z walks batters -- but a walk is a walk is a walk. It doesn't really matter "why" a runner's on first. What's more, one could argue that Z "intentionally"/strategically walks batters (or at least tries not to throw hittable pitches) and therefore (a) walks by Barry aren't "bad" per se whereas walks by Harden are (because walks by Harden are a sign he's struggling, where they're just another day at the office for Z; though, again, a walk is a walk is a walk) and (b) Z is more accustomed to/capable of working around his walks than Harden is his.
Except
by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
That should say
by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I was responding
Second my point about the difference in their walks is that Harden is better available to prevent his walks from scoring via hits. Zito had a lot of success working around his walks this year, but he also got a very fortuitous amount of double plays this year while he is not a ground ball pitcher. I think Harden is better suited at this point to work out of jams.
Further, Zito's success in those situations largely does not include the last two months. Harden may in in mid-March form, but Zito is in "mid-October after having led or nearly led the league in pitches" form.
Perhaps in this exchange, we are progressing toward actual sound logic.
Agreed. He is still in spring training form
by A'sfansince1970 on Oct 13, 2006 5:51 PM PDT reply actions
I want Blanton for Game 6
by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 13, 2006 5:53 PM PDT reply actions
I'll take Saarloos or Kennedy
Yes
by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 13, 2006 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Lets just...
I want Haren to win tomorrow
At this point, I am not really tripping about the outcome of this series. I don't really care about the World Series. I just want to see Zito get another start and give us all one last good memory of him.
The only thing about this loss that is really bothering me is thinking that I may have already seen Zito's last start and that is making me a little sick to my stomach.
So I say Haren goes out there and does one last good thing for his buddy and mentor, and give him one last shot at the mound in the Green and Gold! Please Danny, do it for Z!!
by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 13, 2006 6:01 PM PDT reply actions
hear, hear!
Well said
by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 13, 2006 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions
This makes me sad too.
by beijing on Oct 13, 2006 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Well said.
Just Win
But if not, Detroit played one helluva series to look that good.
Hopefully there's more to look forward to from the A's in 2007.
Dan is the Man !
Danny is the only one who has that BIG Game expieriance we need... he should have started game 2 or 3 i thinks...
Go A's
by ANRZED on Oct 13, 2006 6:24 PM PDT reply actions
i love the fact that
http://www.blessyouboys.com/story/2006/10/13/152627/55#commenttop
by digsthelongball on Oct 13, 2006 6:44 PM PDT reply actions
while it's possible we make this respectable
and not to slam macha, but leyland made so many adjustments to maximize his team's strengths for a short series, while macha played it like it was a 162 game season. kielty not getting an AB until the 8th inning today, keeping our starters in way after they lost their effectiveness, etc. ken's a good manager, but he totally got outclassed in this series by sticking to his regulars too long. you can't manage the same in the playoffs as you do in the regular season.
injuries killed this team this season (again - if beane doesn't change the training staff, something is seriously f'd up), so to even be in the ALCS is incredible. and losing the way we have has shown our weaknesses. we'll have a little money to play around with in the offseason, so i wonder how billy uses it.
that's why I respect
Anyway, last week after Rogers pitched a great game of shut out baseball against the yankees, a yankee fan said to me, "dammit the yankees piss me off so much! they lose agaisnt the worst teams! The Tigers are a bad team!" So then I replied, "Oh really? How are they bad when they've managed to win only two games less than your beloved yankees? and when the yankees lost to the angels last year, guess what, the angels were a better team too. How are they a bad team?" and he just said, "I dunno, they suck. They haven't been in the post season for years. They are not supposed to win." Idiot. After telling him that the tigers had the best pitching in the majors this year and that bonderman was going to crush jaret wright the next day, he really didn't have much to say. I'm not even a tiger fan, but I just can't take ignorant YF.
The point is if the A's were to get eliminated tomorrow, aren't you glad it's not to the yankees and that it's to a team that truly worked their asses off to get to where they are now? I know thats how I felt when we lost to you guys in that horrifying sweep last week. As much as it pained me to see my team struggle for hits, I realized that if we were going to get eliminated, at least it was to a great A's team who I respect very much. Our teams are about pitching, defense, and being small market, and I've always wanted rooted for the A's when it didn't affect the Twins.
You guys aren't out of it yet. It ain't over till it's over. Dan Haren is nasty and you guys won't get swept tomorrow. I know that for sure. Frank's bat will come alive and I'll still be pulling for the A's to win, especially to prove ESPN wrong and to shut FOX up. Good luck tomorrow and remember, no matter what happens, the yankees choaked big time this year. And that should bring a smile to anyone's face.
Sorry about the long post.
and p.s.
when I said that the angels were a better team, I mean just agaisnt the yankees, and I don't like the angels either. Bartolo over Santana for CY. please.
by Twinsfan57 on Oct 13, 2006 6:58 PM PDT reply actions
I like friendly posts by
Detroit fans stuck with that team through all of those terrible seasons. Ya gotta give them props for that. As for your Twinkies...similar payroll to ours and I think both of our teams deserve some props for getting as far as they have with good GMs and super brainpower instead of super wallets. Good luck next yeat !
thank you.
I live in Boston and I'm an A's fan; my best friend here is a Rangers fan and when one of our teams is out of the running we'll root for the other's. There are some good East Coast sports fans who really love the game and know their stuff, but a lot of them, like the lug nuts we ran into watching the game at a bar tonight, are total lamewads.
The A's will be playing the Mets at Shea Stadium next year and we're planning to take a group of A's fans down from Boston. If you'd like to be an honorary A's fan with us for a day you should join us!
by poetwee on Oct 13, 2006 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Thank you
by takebart on Oct 13, 2006 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Thank you, TwinsFan..
I think what's important to remember is...
by Dann on Oct 13, 2006 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Twins
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Great Post
And props to your team this year. I feared them most when we drew their card in the playoffs. It could have easily gone a different way in the ALDS.
And I agree with your comment about Danny Haren, he will NOT go down today. We will win.
by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 14, 2006 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
The series was lost in Game 2
by Peter in Montreal on Oct 13, 2006 7:03 PM PDT reply actions
Macha
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions
But FanSinceKC...
Why is it stupid when Macha goes by this credo, yet brilliant when Leyland goes by it?
Answer: Because Leyland's players have performed better than Macha's players, thus making Leyland's bad moves look as good as his good moves and making Macha's good moves look as bad as his bad moves.
Leyland
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm confused
The Tigers could have gone
Playing it as he did, had Robertson gotten shelled twice (and frankly he should have gotten shelled in Game 1), and had Haren pitched a gem to win Game 3 (though now it looks like it would have to have been 1-0 in 10 innings!), Leyland might be looking at a 3-2 deficit going back to Oakland.
Getting shelled
I agree Leyland could have gone with Verlander in Game 1, but if I'm correct in thinking that he preferred the idea of Kenny Rogers pitching Game 7 than he had to hold the Gambler until Game 3. If that theory is true, than Robertson was going to get scheduled for two starts because Bonderman knocked off the Yankees on the 7th.
Rotations
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the 3 months between starts
I must confess
But after two days off to regroup, study game plans (?!) and refocus . . . we got 2-hit. We got no-hit, basically. An infield hit and a flare into right.
I think that's inexcusable -- I tip my cap to Kenny Rogers, but 2 hits??!! We're supposed to be one of the 4 best teams in baseball -- this is the ALCS (!) -- 2 hits is pitiful.
I'm not angry at anyone in particular -- it's a team thing, for sure -- but I thought tonight showed a complete and total lack of effort. We laid down. Plain and simple, we laid down.
I think it's games like this that Macha gets "exposed" a bit. Did anyone see an adjustment the entire game?? Did one guy creep up in the box, shorten a swing, ANYTHING? It was 27 up, 27 down. (Basically.)
ok, I'm done -- but I thought the team embarassed themselves somewhat tonight, and I don't feel that way often.
Did you see Swish's last at bat vs. Rogers?
Same
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not giving up yet.
- I didn't think the absence of Mark Ellis' glove would hurt us this much. It definitely has, and that's not a knock on Jimenez. I just don't think I appreciated how many extra outs a superior second baseman can get you.
- I didn't think the Tigers would hit this well. They are taking pitches when they need to, and attacking them in all other cases.
As far as the A's performance in this series goes, they've spent the entire year being a team either red-hot or stone-cold--probably because of the spare parts approach Oakland necessarily adopts to building its team. Unfortunately, they've gone stone cold at the worst possible time. I have to remind myself, though, that if any team can suddenly rip off four wins in a row, it's probably the Oakland A's. So I'll keep watching until the final out nestles itself into someone's glove.
Let's face the truth...
I've loved the A's ever since I new anything about baseball, but I have also learned that sometimes you simply have to tip your cap and admit the truth.
Oh, I know the A's will keep on fighting - and I still harbor the slimist of hopes of the impossible four game win streak comeback, but I'm not foolish either. These Tigers are GOOD and it is the longest of long shots to come back.
Frankly, if it can't be the A's taking the crown, I would feel pretty good about the felines from Detroit hauling up the flag.
Strange
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
The Truth Hurts
Chavey has a golden glove, but doesn't have the heart of a champion.
Swish's energy is great over 162 games, but unfocused and immature when the pressure is on.
Thomas was a god-send, but combine the pressure of the post season to the pressure of being the only guy who can consistently drive in runs, it's more than any mere mortal can shoulder. His need to prove everybody in baseball wrong, that they made a mistake passing on him, is 180° opposite of what you nave to do on the big stage . . . just relax and enjoy the spotlight.
Zito thinks too much in big games, and really doesn't trust his stuff enough to throw strikes when he needs to throw strikes.
Scooter isn't super human . . . he's actually a .260 hitter with an occasionaly flair for the dramatic.
Macha is a Bobby Cox clone . . . his calm, cool, everything is okay, stay-the-course-no-matter-what demeanor keeps a team even-keeled through 162 games, but leaves them flat in the playoffs.
Our offensive approach is unimaginative and unproductive . . . no way to jump start an inning, no effort to get a pitcher off balance, no way to put pressure on the pitcher or the defense. We more defensive on offense than most teams are on defense.
It's hard to watch your heroes show their human, fallible side. But that's what we're seeing. And it's heart-breaking to watch. We know they're better than this . . . but we also know that we're seeing the truth, the blemishes, the weaknesses exposed. That little voice inside keeps saying, "you're not really surprised, are you?"
And truth be told, I'm not. Damn. I wish I were.
by Papago on Oct 13, 2006 8:06 PM PDT reply actions
These are not truths
by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 13, 2006 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Ow, ow, ouch, ow, ow
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I suppose you want "small ball"
Not small ball at all
by Papago on Oct 13, 2006 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't care what the players say
Yes, I blame Chavez for playing awful defense. I blame Jimenez. I blame Macha for being Macha.
Anyone else hear
by mhoffman on Oct 13, 2006 8:13 PM PDT reply actions
Actually
by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 13, 2006 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions
byrnes called
by KCB on Oct 13, 2006 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
C'mon
now this bugs me...
From ESPN.com:
"We're running into a better team and they're knocking down everybody in their path," A's third baseman Eric Chavez said. "It's not frustrating, they're better than we are."
wtf? I mean, he's probably right. And, when you've lost, it's good to salute your opponents. But why, oh why, would you say BEFORE THE SERIES IS OVER? Try to have some fight, Eric.
Seems like they're quitting.
by brooklyn as fan on Oct 13, 2006 8:22 PM PDT reply actions
Would you rather he say
Chavey is honest. This is soemthing we all know about him. It is a quality that I personally admire in him and one of the reasons I adore the guy. He is not a Jeter who only talks in sound bites! He is honest and human. He can see the team's flaws and he is not affraid to discuss it.
He is simply giving credit where credit is due. To a team that is running over everyone in their path! Plain and simple!
by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 13, 2006 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
no, actually
it sends a terrible message to his teammates. I'm not saying he should beat his chest and proclaim the superiority of the A's. That would look awfully silly right now. I'm not saying he should lie; but he should have some fight in him, some desire to get out there and show that the A's belong in the ALCS.
Why concede the series before it's over? I mean, it probably is over, for all intents and purposes, but why give up publicly while you still have a some chance (2004 Sox, anyone)? With that attitude, might as well not play tomorrow.
He should have saved the concession speech for after the series.
by brooklyn as fan on Oct 13, 2006 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn't hear
Someone probably asked him if he found this loss frustrating. Then he responded with, "We are not frustrated, they are better than us." (he probably went on to explain himself, but they didn't print that part, now did they!) Why should they feel frustrated when facing a team that was leading the league ALL SEASON LONG!! April, everyone was saying, Watch out for the Tigers!! I don't think they should be frustrated when losing to this team. The Tigers are good! And they have been playing better than the A's, end of story!
by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 13, 2006 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Why are you so compelled
It's generous of you. It really is. But what Chavez said is in line with so many other mindless and idiotic things he's said in the past.
Why are you so compelled to find such
Leaders
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Leaders like His Jeteriness?
he didn't say
"playing better than us." He said "better than us." Now, is that what you want to hear from a teammate before a game? "Well guys, the other team is better than us, so don't be frustrated when we lose." Way to get fired up for tomorrow.
Of course the Tigers are a good team, but over the course of the season, they only won 2 games more than the A's. If Z and Loaiza hadn't thrown such terrible games, this series might be 1-2 or even 2-1. Look, I love Eric, but all I'm saying is, don't give up until it's really over (see '04 Sox after getting whupped up on for 19 runs in game 3). Fight for now, save the "they're a better team" speech for later.
As for your speculation concerning what Eric might have said and what reporters might have opted not to write, I find it a fascinating conjecture, but not a particularly persuasive mode of argumentation. His comments might have been out of context? Well, you certainly proved me wrong, didn't you.
Oh, and your guy? I think I saw him walking around the mall with some other chick.
by brooklyn as fan on Oct 13, 2006 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Chavez
It is everything that's horrible in him as a leader. This guy was born to surrender. He has been doing it since 2000 when he foolishly conceded the division to Seattle--a division we eventually won.
But it's never ended. It wasn't youthful follishness, it turns out. It was who he is. It's who he is as the leader of the team in this his 8th year.
It's mind-boggling for him to say that. For him to say it's not fucking frustrating, that they're better than we are.
Anyone--and I see someone already has--who's defending this is just lying to themselves about Chavvy. Just making excuses for the shit he mindlessly and cluelessy says.
Honestly, that's one of the worst quotes I've ever seen in the face of defeat.
The "Face of the A's"
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
You are correct, that's NOT
The fans don't get to decide this, folks.
But Do The Players See Him as a Leader?
I think they probably like him personally and respect his defense and his talent -- but I've never heard an A's player talk about Chavvy the way they talk abut Frank Thomas or Kendall or Kotsay.
But I 100% agree that all the fan talk about what makes a leader is silly. Chavvy doesn't have to win over the fans to be a leader.
If they continue
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Over-react much?
Which they are. I'd rather hear the truth than have someone try to blow sunshine up my ass.
You're so full of shit
It's not a choice between ra-ra bullshit and the bullshit that Chavez chose instead. Nobody's asking him to say that we have them where we want them, or that we just need a few to drop in. He could choose not to say anything, or maybe to say,
"It's frustrating as hell. We're better than this."
See, was that so hard. Nothing ra-ra. Nothing bullshit.
And really, man, you should never ever ever in the history of your life on this site accuse anyone of overreacting:
You spent the whole middle of the season calling for the team to be gutted.
You're absolutely right
a million things he could have said that would acknowledge the truth of the situation ("we've been getting our asses kicked"), while still showing some fight ("we're going to play hard tomorrow"). No one's asking for bullshit, just some determination, right? It's the fucking playoffs, who knows when you'll be back?
What else are you going to do, just quit?
Oh, wait...
by brooklyn as fan on Oct 13, 2006 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
What's the Captain His Jeteriness
Actually, if you had paid attention
Now, back to the quote that is causing an uproar.
How is it "leadership" if Chavez doesn't answer the question, if he passes the buck to another teammate? Because I pretty much guarantee you the reporter wasn't going to stop asking their question until they got an answer.
Are the A's better than they've shown these last three games? Absolutely. Is being "frustrated" going to help them win Game 4? Doubtful. As a matter of fact, frustration will probably make them play tight, make them press, two things which are NOT condusive to winning. The Tigers are up 3-0, which is a pretty good indication of who the better team is. But if the A's want to win Game 4 and stay in Detroit another day they can't focus on that. They have to focus on playing to the best of their abilities, and if they do that then maybe we can see who really has the better team.
I was paying attention, grover--
I'm kind of surprised you bring up your midseason comments because they didn't exactly prove to be portentious. Unless you feel you are destined to be right "unless the A's win the World Series," in which case you will be on solid ground 95% of the time because most teams don't win the World Series.
So here's my prediction for 2007: Every single major league team needs to "gut" its team because it won't win the World Series. Bet I'm right 29 times over!
I didn't bring up my midseason comments
And I didn't think the A's were going to make it because I was convinced that there was no way that Stoneman was going to pass up the chance to dip into his ridiculously loaded farm system and get the help the Angels needed. I figured it was safe to assume that a team like the Angels would pursue a deal that would be in their best interests.
I was wrong. And the A's benefitted from Stoneman's... I don't know, generosity.
Now, I've never been an advocate of the "WS or Bust" theory of management. That's a game only the very rich franchises can afford to play and the A's don't qualify. I fully support the year-in, year-out quality product concept that the A's have followed since the late '90s. Put another way, I prefer this pattern to that of the Marlins. So your last couple statements are looking for a target other than me.
What I have said, and I thought I made this clear to you a couple days ago, is that Beane (in essence) called his shot this year with his roster moves. Holding on to Payton, Kennedy and Zito while siging Thomas to a 1 year deal all signalled a major post-season push. The weakness of the farm system meant that the pay-off had to be big to justify the talent drop-off in 2007. Beane set the goal to be a WS title, not me. That means if the A's fall short of that goal the season is a failure.
I say "failure" without attaching any stigma to the term. If you set a goal and you don't achieve it then you have failed. OK, what's next? In baseball that means looking forward to the next season. What are your goals going to be and what needs to happen to the roster to achieve those goals?
But that's a question for later. Right now I'm more interested in Game 4.
For the record, grover,
I just thought you were a bit relentless, at the time, in your certainty that the A's couldn't go anywhere with the current group. It was the repetitiveness and intensity that caught my attention.
But you and I are basically on the same page: We'd really like the A's to win Game 4!
A bit relentless?
And I'll be honest with you, I believe that if you played the season a 100 times over from late-July on the A's would fall short of the play-offs at least 90% of the time. I had a list of things that I thought needed to happen before the current roster could get to the postseason and almost every single item happened!
I mean Holy Frak, where did Loaiza's August come from?!
portentious
Add this to "jeremiad" and "project/object" as terms that will make me go totally sycophantic on an AN contributor, even to the point of washing their feet.
by emperor nobody on Oct 14, 2006 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Gee whiz
Chavez could have said ten different things. He said about the worst thing he possibly could. It's in keeping with his long line of utterly honest concessions. There have been so many over the years. The guy is worthy of a case study.
I already said I was proven wrong
By the way
Or you can stick with the over-reaction and exaggeration.
Okay
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Because if they don't take the field
It's Smart
by Dann on Oct 13, 2006 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions
His Teammates
by Dann on Oct 13, 2006 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
You Think ...
Or that they didn't hear him say they were the least talented he'd played with? How do you think Milton Bradley felt about that? Do you think he's got more respect for Chavvy now?
Part of leadership is pumping up your teammates and building confidence. It's trying to inspire your guys to play harder. It's saying you trust them.
This is the opposite. It's saying, it's okay if we lose because they are the better team.
Now I believe the Tigers are the better team -- but I'm just a fan and my self confidence won't matter much tomorrow at game time.
The better team doesn't always win in baseball, but assuming you'll lose assures it.
Yes, that quote too
The first person I thought of was Bradley, but I thought of others too. Why would anyone want to hear how they're part of the least talented team.
And it was frankly just stupid. This isn't the least talented team by far, the way Chavez--again stupidly and mindlessly--characterized it. This team is clearly more talented than the team in '00. And may well be more talented that the 2002 and 2003 A's teams.
Chavez reminds me of something I heard Larry Bird say once. Bird was told that some players on the Houston Rockets were calling themselves the underdogs, saying they were just happy to be in the NBA championship. Bird immediately told the reporter that if that's the way they were thinking they were already beat.
Leadership isn't some bullshit attribute that fans invent. It matters. If it didn't we wouldn't believe in the fiery speeches we have heard at one time or another in our lives, wouldn't believe in their power to move and inspire us.
But words do have that power, especially from those called upon to lead. And unfortunately, words like Chavez's have the opposite power, as well.
The Bird Quote Explains it Exactly
But the second part of his actual quote may have been worse. From espn.com:
"We've run into a better team," Oakland third baseman Eric Chavez said. "And there's really nothing you can do. " ...
"If they play to their potential and play perfect baseball and if we play to our potential and play perfect baseball, it's still going to be a challenge for us," Chavez said. "That's just the way it is right now."
Essentially he said, "We can't win." And he made it okay for others to say it too:
"We're out there doing everything we can," Swisher said. "It just hasn't worked out."
And even worse was Bradley responding to reporters bringing up the Red Sox comeback:
"We're not the Red Sox," outfielder Milton Bradley said. "We don't exactly have David Ortiz."
Do you think he would have said that if Chavvy hadn't been leading the way? Bradley essentailly said," yeah it's been done, but we're not good enough to do it.""
Great Point
What about that weird remark during the non-clinching weekend against the Angels in Oakland? Chavvy said it would be better to clinch when we were in LA the last weekend of the season, in order to gain some kind of retribution for having been eliminated at home by them the last two years. Yeah, real cool idea.
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
C'mon
Div Series: 545/688/1000 in 11 AB
Cham Series: 387/457/742 in 31 AB (11 RBI)
The A's don't have anyone that hot right now! Maybe if someone got that hot the A's would have a shot at pulling this thing out, but that seems to be a lot to ask for.
Only Chavez didn't say crap about
The Tigers HAVE been the better team over the last three games and the record reflects this. The A's have to win 4 straight to advance to the WS and they aren't playing like a team capable of such a streak. What Boston did borders on a baseball miracle, we shouldn't be expecting another historic collapse. More improtantly the A's shouldn't even be thinking about winning four straight, they need to think about winning Game 4. And if they can manage that than they can think about winning Game 5.
I Agree
- The Tigers Have Been the Better Team
- It's Extremely Unlikely Our A's got to the World Series
Nobody expects a miracle, but we want to have faith that it's possible. Chavvy essentially said, "sorry, it's not."
"Pretty much" "essentially"
The only thing left to do is play well in Game 4.
Okay. Here's What He Actually Said:
- "We've run into a better team," Oakland third baseman Eric Chavez said. "AND THERE IS REALLY NOTHING YOU CAN DO"
- "If they play to their potential and play perfect baseball and if we play to our potential and play perfect baseball, it's still going to be a challenge for us," Chavez said.
But, c'mon! He said there's nothing he could do. He's given up!
Of course, this may mean Chavvy finally plays up to his potential because there he has now put zero pressure on himself ...
The problematic line
I don't think anyone is going to argue with the accuracy of the rest of his statement. The Tigers have been the better team after three games and the A's are behind the ol' eight ball.
"And there is really nothing you can do."
Definitely not a rallying cry, is it? But I don't see it as a concession either. If the Tigers continue to be the better team it's likely they are going to win this series. The A's didn't beat themselves yesterday, they were simply shutdown by Rogers. I don't think there was a lack of effort or desire in yesterday's loss, they played well and it wasn't close to being enough.
Something has to change. Either the Tigers need to slip up a little or bit or someone in the A's line-up is going to have to go bonkers. And it wouldhelp if Haren could, you know, do his best Dave Stewart impression and put the team on his back for a day. I don't think any of those things are givens, and they certainly aren't things that Chavez could have said in an interview.
Jesus
These should all be collected. They're incredible.
A personal favorite from 2000 during a telecast from New York (I'll never forget it). Rivera had just come in and, because Chavez was coming to the plate, Channel 36 went to some voiceover they had gotten from Chavvy about Rivera.
Chavez was saying that there was no way he could hit Rivera, that basically every at bat he had no chance. By the time the clip was played the count was 0-1 or 0-2, and Ray Fosse (you know, the guy who has won championships) was in the booth and he wanted to say the right thing, but his jaw had just dropped at how Chavez had on tape conceded that he has no shot against this guy, and Fosse said something about, "Well, that's not what Chavvy needs to be saying," or "That's not the approach Chavvy should be taking," or something like that.
Chavvy struck out on cue--and why shouldn't he have struck out; he'd already conceded he had no shot in the at bat.
It was hilarious.
And, please, I'm all for honesty. But is there anybody out there stupid enough to not think that Chavez viewing things that way makes it a little less likely that he'll succeed in that at bat.
And so, six years later, the same with his remarks in this series.
Exactly. Good Anecdote.
So much of baseball is approach and confidence. Yogi Bera was right when he said "Baseball is 90% mental."
Chavez
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I translate that quote to:
Which is a pretty accurate account of the series so far.
I translate it to
Doesn't really need translating does it.
If any players stereotypically characterized as malcontents or lazy or detached--read most black players who speak their minds (like Bradley, say)--said something like this they'd be fried.
People would be calling for Milton's head. And Urban would be handing it to them on MLB.COM. Rosenthal would lead with it from the field, hinting at how it had caused a stir in the A's clubhouse and you "had to wonder what Bradley was thinking." Steve Lyons would drone on about it, about how that's why Bradley hasn't stayed places very long--the whole attitude thing. FOX would show a picture of a glowering Bradley inset against the quote under the heading "GAME OVER." Etc.
so very true
MB was our best player in the postseason and I think he's found a home here, he belongs. I love every minute of him, he is brilliant, articulate, committed to winning, and inspiring. I wish I could thank him to his face for taking SO MUCH SHIT in this pathetic, neanderthal racist country and performing as he has, giving us his best. That game on Wednesday night, he tried to pick up the other 24 guys and physically carry them to victory. Chop, who is a good but not great player, wouldn't ever attempt to do that. Why, I do not know, but I guess some guys have it and some just don't.
by emperor nobody on Oct 13, 2006 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Bradley
Maybe next season, Milton will channel his passion toward leadership (not unlike Miggy).
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Wish I Woud Have Heard It
Every time I've heard Bradley , I've been impressed by his awareness and insight. Even his awful quote tonight about not having Ortiz showed a sense of (recent) history and an awareness that it's not all about him.
I've been hard on Swisher as a player, but it seems like he was exactly the friend Bradley needed.
Swisher and Bradley
by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions
such a beautiful combination
Like I said, I think MB has found the only team that he can play on and not go mad, and I wish I could thank him personally for his effort and contributions to this, the best team of the BB era so far.
by emperor nobody on Oct 13, 2006 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Bradley
(The following is a stupid story: on opening night, my family and I were sitting near the right field foul pole. When Bradley took his place in right field in the top of the first, I yelled out "GO MILTON." I yelled it because I wanted to do my miniscule part to welcome him. When I yelled it, he turned his head just a little toward me -- I'm sure for some other reason -- but of course I like to think he heard my welcome.)
by FanSinceKC on Oct 14, 2006 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions
"They're better than we are"
Chavez' candor might be refreshing, but he needs an internal editor.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 13, 2006 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions
and to be clear
I love Eric. I don't agree with any of the comments here about moving him, or making someone else the captain, or whatever. He always plays hard, and he's a really good player.
But this was a terrible thing to say. Basically told his teammates to go home. There's just no place for that kind of talk. You have to fight until you can't anymore.
by brooklyn as fan on Oct 13, 2006 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
it's just a prima facie case of

GOES WRONG
by emperor nobody on Oct 13, 2006 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, exactly and hilariously
Great Chappelle reference.
Chavez is clubhouse poison
Starting pitching
As for Zito and Loaiza: They were both awful. I don't care about plays not made by Jimenez and Chavez, Zito was getting shelled after those first 8 outs. He didn't get yanked in the 4th because of bad luck; he got yanked because Macha was trying to hold on to the game.
And Loaiza--he was a complete disaster. After we went up 3-1, he allowed two leadoff hits. He strikes out Guillen, then inexplicably walks Pudge on 4 pitches. Monroe lines a single to center, and Loaiza has effectively taken everything we gained and flushed it away--4 of the first 5 have reached. One poor play by Chavez later, we're in deep shit. But that's not all: Loaiza then surrenders a two-out double and homer to essentially put the game away. A horrible performance.
Look, I love all these pitchers and this whole team. But our starting pitching has really let us down. Of course, so has our hitting and our defense.
So it's been a complete fucking disaster.
the best thing you can do
by KCB on Oct 13, 2006 8:38 PM PDT reply actions
Kielty: The gutless decision
My god, what was the braintrust of this team thinking in sitting down the second best bat on the team vs. lefties.
I thought he would be a huge factor in the post-season against New York (Johnson) and especially Detroit (Robertson and Rogers). And we sit him. The guy mashed lefties all year, hitting key homer after key homer in games we won (Lilly, Kazmir, the slam against Cliff Lee). And we never sent him to the plate against a lefty.
That's unforgivable.
agree
I advocated exactly that for Game 1
groan
Well it was nice knowing you all. Time to watch football.
. . .
Seriously though, I'm looking for respectability, and preferably us not getting swept. But respectability, at least a smidge.
by aymlam79 on Oct 13, 2006 8:54 PM PDT reply actions
We all know...
I hope that Macha, Beane, and the A's braintrust will make some offensive adjustments for Game 4. When someone's not hitting during the season, you sit them. Same should be true.
Shuffle the deck, put a different combo out there, and maybe we can build some momentum. If they march out with the same ol' lineup tomorrow, I might not watch. Oh, who am I kidding? I'll watch, but I won't be happy.
by Dann on Oct 13, 2006 8:55 PM PDT reply actions
Hey all...
Right now we should be focused on cheering for A's in 7!!!!
Five words:
His Tor Ic Come Back.
by mhoffman on Oct 13, 2006 9:44 PM PDT reply actions
You know . . .
by superhombre10 on Oct 13, 2006 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I"ve been
by mhoffman on Oct 13, 2006 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
The good news is the A's have a game Saturday!
by jdye on Oct 13, 2006 10:02 PM PDT reply actions
I understand A's fans are planning
Any truth to this?
The last A's game I ever follow...
The following is also personal: as an Oakland resident, I told myself in March that if the A's didn't win go to World Series this year (or even better win it), that politicans in the city would turn their heads for good on the team, feeling that they are not worthy of having a new, baseball-only ballpark in Oakland. Division titles and 1st-round wins are not what they are looking for; they are looking for ways to get the money flowing in, it seems, with the help of the later rounds of post season.
Wolff's comments in March about looking at Fremont/other could easily be taken literally, but it is now reality unless there is someone here to satisfy Wolff and Fisher. I tried not to take the "threat to move" seriously. However, the failure to advance this season in the post season--barring a miracle--is making it seem more and more obvious that the team will be in Fremont, out or out of the Bay Area, at worst.
As soon as the announcement came in '95 that the Raiders were returning, I dreaded this conclusion for the A's, including going through a major depression in part because of it, and dreading it more, year after year. Al Davis made it worse, and most of the city officials are letting the A's slip away partly (or mainly) because of this.
Unless I decide to move from Oakland one day, which I hope never has to happen, it looks like good-bye, for a city in which they have made a statement as a franchise, with the WS, pennant and division wins, plus many great players.
I guess we'll find out for sure closer to the time Dellums starts his mayorial term, regarding the teams future, and where.
**Sorry if this is a multi-repeated post of different variation. I just had to let it "all come out".
Go A's...and hope you stay(???), regardless of how slim the chances might be. <sigh>
by wolffpackdavid on Oct 13, 2006 10:41 PM PDT reply actions
by the way, the A's and Oakland
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/sports/baseball/mlb/oakland_athletics/15748953.htm
saw that, thanks
Bottom line, they need to stay here. I emailed by district council-hopeful (via election) last night, who earlier this year was a major part of the Keep The A's in Oakland movement. With her help, working with Dellums and others, hopefully something keeps them here...even if it means an extention rail/airtrain from BART (along the lines of muni metro for phone-park in SF).
by wolffpackdavid on Oct 13, 2006 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm with you
Defense
Bad Bunch of Posts
But I feel bad for them---and angry at us. These guys have torn themselves apart for six months for our enjoyment. They have grinded it out, clawed their way back and overcome so much. And we've enjoyed that journey all the way. Just one short week ago, we were near the top of the world.
And now, because we're down 0-3, and things look dim, it's ok to bash on these guys? To question their character? Win or lose, they're our team. There is plenty of time later to review the season and assess the future. But as long as there are games to be played, we should be behind them til the last out.
by Dann on Oct 14, 2006 1:05 AM PDT reply actions
THANK YOU!
Now, we are all feeling the exact oposite of that moment. Ok, it sucks. But that is no reason to suddenly bash our players, the organization, and say, "I will no longer be an A's fan if they don't win tomorrow!"
These guys have played their Butts off, literally, all season. The least we can do for them now is support them and believe in them. They have not played wrapped in duct tape all season long to simply give up just because they are down 3-0!!
There is still baseball to be played. So we should enjoy it and support our team. They are still OUR team. Even if they do close out the season tomorrow, we aren't going to run and hide all our A's gear. We will still sport it proudly and still call ourselves A's FANS!
And if we do ditch all our Fandom, just because they don't make it to the World Series, then we are just bandwagoners and we are no better than Yankee fans!
by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 14, 2006 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions
You said it! Today is our last chance
by A'sfansince1970 on Oct 14, 2006 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions
You said it! Today is our last chance
by A'sfansince1970 on Oct 14, 2006 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Please
People are righftully frustrated. I mean, the team just hasn't played very well (Z, Loaiza, Thomas) - but that's not the main point. It's that Chavez appearing to give up before the series is over is unbearable.
I'll be rooting real hard today, but you can't seriously expect people not to be very disappointed with Chavez's attitude. Look at the Cards - who were given a chance by absolutely no one - they just took a game from the Mets and beat one of the best closers in the game. The Cards are not a good team, but no one over there said, "Well, Billy Wagner's just a better pitcher than I am a hitter, so I guess we should expect to get shut down."
If Chavez last night had shown 1/4 of the determination you're showing, I don't think there would be nearly as many complaints.
by brooklyn as fan on Oct 14, 2006 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Well said
Don't get me wrong, I want the World Series to happen for us! Hell, I have tickets that are staring me in the face begging to be used!
But I will not say anything but good things about our team at the end of this season.
Great players, great team, and one of 4 teams left out of ALL of the teams in MLB!
I love this team!
by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 14, 2006 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I think we might lose some fans
The A's will make it back to Oakland!
SLIDE A's! SLIDE!
stop the complaining...no one wants Jimenez
What strikes me though about Kiger fans/Jimenez bashers who pursue the Jimenez blame game is the blind spot about much more obvious reasons for why we are not doing well this series. Jimenez has, in fact, sucked really badly but there are much, much bigger reasons why we are where we are: Chavy's horrificly timed errors in game 1 & 2, the o-fer (minus Milt) with RISP, and Zito/Loaiza getting hammered; all much more tangible reasons for why we are down 0-3.
Personally, the person I most disappointed in this entire post-season has been Eric Chavez. He is totally lost out there. This has to be killing Billy who has always been steadfastly 100% in Eric's corner.
by Sashulia on Oct 14, 2006 7:36 AM PDT reply actions
Fear the "Braintust"
by Green N Gold NV on Oct 14, 2006 9:46 AM PDT reply actions

by 
























