Signing the Great Equalizer

by Blez on Jan 25, 2006 2:43 PM PST in News Comment 177 comments

Athletics Nation, meet your 2006 Oakland A's DH Frank Thomas.

Otherwise known as "The Big Hurt", Thomas has been a mashing force throughout his career in the south side of Chicago.

There are so many different angles to dissect this move, it's tough to know where to start. So let's start where Billy Beane probably started. The statistics.

Over his career, Frank Thomas has a .995 OPS. That's good for 10th in all of baseball history. Let me repeat that, that's good for 10th in baseball history. The other names on the list? Ruth, Williams, Gehrig, Bonds, Helton (surely aided by the Colorado air), Foxx, Greenberg, Hornsby, and Manny Ramirez. He is also an on-base machine, which had to have Billy Beane more than willing to take a chance on someone with these credentials. Thomas ranks 12th all-time with a .427 OBP. 10 out of 15 years he has had 100 or more walks in a season. So why was someone with this resume available? That gets into another part of the equation to factor in.
Thomas is a very large man (6'5", 275 pounds) with some questionable health issues. The reports on Thomas and his injured ankle make him a scary proposition. He played only 74 games in 2004 and 34 in 2005. Thomas is like an 18-wheeler right now trying to successfully end his career on tricycle wheels. I believe that the A's did their due diligence on this though. Billy Beane's offseason reading has been nothing but medical reports. First, Milton Bradley's and now, Thomas. The other thing to keep in mind is that signing Thomas doesn't hurt the team. The A's are a deeper team than they have been in many, many years. If Thomas goes down for some time, they have Dan Johnson to DH and Nick Swisher to play first. If Chavez goes down for a few weeks, they now have Antonio Perez to help at that position. Same with Bobby Crosby and Mark Ellis. Any one of the outfielders gets hurt, they have Jay Payton. If one of the starting pitchers gets hurt, you have Saarloos and Kennedy in the pen. The 2005-06 offseason will be remembered as one of addition without subtraction. The only issue here will be spreading out the at-bats in the unlikely case that the team remains healthy.
The lineup looks intimidating now. With Ellis, Kotsay, Thomas, Chavez, Bradley, Crosby, Johnson, Swisher and Kendall, this team will have the ability to put up runs in bunches. It has a lot of power and it has a ton of patience. This lineup could drive opposing pitchers crazy with their ability to lay off bad pitches and hammer the stuff out over the plate. And the thing is, this offense didn't need to get that much better. It only needed to marginally improve, especially with the addition of Esteban Loaiza. But now, with Payton, Perez and Kielty on the bench, it's deep and it should be protected against injury. Although I wouln't be surprised to see Payton moved, I also wouldn't be surprised if he stays here to help guard against injury. The only challenge then is to keep all the players in the clubhouse happy with playing time if everyone stays healthy. Macha has struggled with his lack of depth over the last few years, let's see how he does with an abundance of depth.
Thomas has a reputation of being a good clubhouse presence and someone who is a good leader. While I don't usually put a lot of stock into these "reputations", I firmly believe that Frank Thomas will have a positive impact on the A's clubhouse, and could even counteract any problems that may have arisen from the acquisition of Milton Bradley.
Is Thomas the big bat so many ANers have been asking for? That remains to be seen. Thomas has only had 345 at-bats over the past two seasons. He probably isn't the player he was in 2000, which was his last really great season. But if he can get back to his 2003 form and slug .562, he will be the player who can put this team over the top. Keep in mind that Thomas' worst slugging percentage over a season where he played more than 20 games in his career was .471. The A's only had one position player over that number last year and that was Mark Ellis at .477. Eric Chavez slugged .466. That statistic, more than any other one, bodes well for the A's. As Billy Beane is fond of saying, power is the great equalizer in baseball. Beane got his equalizer in Thomas.
Make no mistake about it, the signing of Frank Thomas means that the A's are going for it all this year. You don't sign 37-year-old players, even to an incentive-laden deal, if you aren't thinking about winning in the short term. Now, Zito may still eventually be traded, but if you couple Z being an Athletic along with this signing, it tells me that the front office believes this team has a legitimate shot this year to win the World Series. And you know what? I believe them.
The A's aren't going to get perfect players...at least until this team gets its new stadium. That's why you see the A's getting players like Thomas, who has the injury problems, and Bradley, who has the behavior problems. But at the same time, these are players who can contribute to a team in a big way. Thomas with his big stick. Bradley with his stick and his defense. In order to successfully run a small market club, you have to take risks, but you have to choose which risks are likely to bring the highest reward. Thomas and Bradley could be huge cogs in a championship run. But there is also big "ifs" associated with both of these players. Thomas and his health and Bradley and his inability to stay out of trouble.
I said this on the air with Marty Lurie on his Inside Baseball show and I'll say it now. Since the A's have now signed Frank Thomas (I said "if the A's sign Thomas" on the air), I believe this team becomes the favorite in the American League to go to the World Series. Now, circumstances can change that, like if the Angels suddenly got Tejada and Manny Ramirez, but as of right now, I really like the A's chances this year and I'm more excited than ever about this team.

0 recs | Comment 177 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

hear hear

Beane's best offseason.

The team has virtually no weakness and many strengths.

Let's rock and roll

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Jan 25, 2006 2:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'm still a little worried about the pen

Granted, Saarloos is in there now, which is an upgrade, but I'm worried about Duke coming back down to earth and I do feel this team needs a quality LOOGY for players like Teixeira, Blalock, Ibanez and Anderson.

by Blez on Jan 25, 2006 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ricky wasn't great

Kennedy could be just as good or better; Flores waits in the wings; and there's a trade deadline.

And it's not as if Calero, Witasick and Duke can't get lefties out.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Jan 25, 2006 2:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

also

I imagine thats what Beane might deal Payton or Kielty for before the season starts.

If not a bullpen guy, AN always loves a good prospect!

Bill Stoneman is about to be offered three seasons of a right-handed version of Vladimir Guerrero - Rev Halofan

by pickinmachine on Jan 25, 2006 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Payton back to Boston

it looks like the red sox are in need of a center fielder with the Coco Crisp deal looking less likley. i like Payton a lot but its hard to justify having two back up outfielders at the price we pay for them.

"Baseball is simple. You throw the ball. You hit the ball. You catch the ball. sometimes you win. some times you loose. some times it rains." -Bull Durham

by DC on Jan 25, 2006 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The sharks are already

swimming over our extra OF'ielders. See Camden Chat

by eamb on Jan 25, 2006 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Also Indians fans

http://www.letsgotribe.com/story/2006/1/25/174858/979

They want Swisher.

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Jan 25, 2006 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

... or Payton ...

... they're also on crack: [re Payton] "would Oakland take back Rhodes for him?"

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 25, 2006 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

::shudders::

Almost forgot about him. Almost.

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Jan 25, 2006 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

rocky rhodes as a LOOGY

for payton...you bet!

by bigelephant on Jan 25, 2006 6:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

rocky rhodes much more effective against

RHer vs LHers...go figure eh?

by bigelephant on Jan 25, 2006 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm going on the record

if rhodes comes back I will hit him in the head with my cell phone...

by AsFan on Jan 26, 2006 1:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ooops

I linked to the same story and called it Camden Chat as opposed to Let's Go Tribe.

by eamb on Jan 25, 2006 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

One other thing about the pen

I think the signing of Loaiza means that there will be less stress on the bullpen because all five pitchers can get deep into games now. Saarloos' biggest knock against him last season was the short outings. If you can get six or ideally seven innings out of your starters, this pen is certainly strong enough. But that's an if.

by Blez on Jan 25, 2006 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, maybe not Anderson.

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Jan 25, 2006 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think

we need to change the roster for Ibanez either, especially if we are ahead by 5 runs during his last few at-bats in a game

"If you throw at someone's head, it's very dangerous, because in the head is the brain." -- Pudge Rodriguez

by niallmack on Jan 25, 2006 3:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

"The team has virtually no weakness..."

Classic Oaktoon over optimism.

We've still got Kendall behind the dish not throwing out runners with alarming regularity. The Big Hurt is still a big ?, so is Bradley, as are all the returning rookies. They're not ALL going to improve.

Let's look at it this way, if the Angels had signed Thomas, would we all think they'd be the favorites to win the World Series?

"Keep the juices going by jangling around gently as you move." - Satchel Paige

by McFood on Jan 25, 2006 4:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

When they lose 3 straight at some point

he will comment that the team has no strengths....Just a matter of time.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jan 25, 2006 4:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No

before the Thomas signing I figured the A's to have a decent chance at 100 wins, even with the league improving as a whole from players coming from the NL. 96-97 for sure.

Now i believe 100 is not only attainable, but likely.

By virtually no weaknesses I mean the following:

the best 1-5 rotation in the sport;
a deep and very strong bullpen;
a very balanced lineup 1-9, with significant depth b ehind it;
a very good fielding team;

jason kendall can't throw out baserunners-- OK-- there's a weakness.

It's a very very strong team.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Jan 25, 2006 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Just what I've been waiting for!

No surprise they announced the signing three days before single game tickets go on sale. I was undecided on how many tickets to buy. This changes everything.

In my view this is a no-lose deal. If he is healthy Swisher and Johnson can platoon. If he is not, the A's have quality back-ups.

Is there now any doubt who will be on the 25 man rooster at the start of the season?
~Dave

by bolt on Jan 25, 2006 2:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Only question i can think of

is Ginter vs. Scutaro.

Other than that:

Thomas
Kendall
Melhuse
DJ
Ellis
Crosby
Perez
Chavez
kielty
payton
Swish
Bradley
Kotsay

and 11 pitchers, with a pen of Saarloos, Witasick, kennedy, Duke, Calero and Street.

Of course someone wil get hurt in spring training.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Jan 25, 2006 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

platoon Swisher and Payton?

no, no, no. nither of those kids are sitting. DJ is at first, Swisher is in right field and Kielty and Payton are our two back ups. weather we need two expensive outfield back ups like that is another story.

"Baseball is simple. You throw the ball. You hit the ball. You catch the ball. sometimes you win. some times you loose. some times it rains." -Bull Durham

by DC on Jan 25, 2006 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Swisher

Why does Swisher automatically get a spot in the OF? I would like to see Swisher, Kielty, and Payton battle it out in Spring Training.

May the best man win
May the worst man get dealt

by Colorado Fan on Jan 25, 2006 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So what you're saying

Is you're willing to let a few meaningless spring training games in which one could reasonably fluke into a terrible performance decided whether we give playing time to one of our brightest young players or not in favor of the likes of Jay Payton or Bobby Kielty?

Call me crazy, but I'll see what's behind door number two.

by walk off bunt on Jan 25, 2006 5:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Competition

I don' think the LF job should be handed to Swisher. And if you don't think competition makes players better, then you've never been competitive.

I understand BB strokes Swisher as much as any GM to player in the history of baseball, but Payton is better than Swisher (this coming season). Defensively and Offensively...

Frank Thomas was signed to help this team win it all THIS SEASON. Why not play your best 9 players the majority of THIS SEASON?

It needs to be considered, IMO.

by Colorado Fan on Jan 25, 2006 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Defensively, yes

Swisher is a better hitter now, and is likely to improve, wheras Payton is likely to regress.

2005 Swisher - .236 .322 .446 .768
2005 Payton - .269 .302 .451 .753
2004 Payton - .260 .326 .367 .693

In fact, Payton has only topped Swisher's rookie OPS while playing for the Rockies.

Payton is a great 4th OF. He plays good defence, and will pop the occasional HR, but his lack of plate discipline limits his usefulness to a backup role.

by MrIncognito on Jan 26, 2006 6:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not saying that Payton...

...is decidedly better than Swisher. I am saying that it shouldn't automatically be Swisher's job.

Payton Lifetime OPS = .773

by Colorado Fan on Jan 26, 2006 9:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Payton better than Swisher in '06?

Where do you get this? Swisher was better than Payton (as a rookie) in '05!

OPS:
Swisher .768
Payton .749

by boilerdan on Jan 26, 2006 6:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Payton

Swisher will continue to be inconsistent...

Payton Lifetime: .773 OPS

So Payton doesn't deserve a chance to start? Swisher should be "handed" the LF starting job?

by Colorado Fan on Jan 26, 2006 9:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Swish is in his ealry to mid 20's

Payton is in his early to mid 30's. Swisher should get better, Payton will likely be worse. Payton's lifetime OPS wouldn't look as good without his Coors years.

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on Jan 26, 2006 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Its going to be Swish

because he costs us almost nothing, we have him for five more years, he has a greater power potential, but most importantly you cant develop players by sitting them. Swisher and DJ are our future and they are going to get every oprotunity to develop there potential.

"Baseball is simple. You throw the ball. You hit the ball. You catch the ball. sometimes you win. some times you loose. some times it rains." -Bull Durham

by DC on Jan 25, 2006 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Future

The future is now, isn't it?

Who's going to be the better player in 2006? Swisher or Payton? History says Payton.

AN is so used to thinking about the future of our ballclub. Well friends, the future is right in front of us. Play the best 9 ballplayers!

by Colorado Fan on Jan 25, 2006 6:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Look at their birthdates

Payton might BE history.

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on Jan 26, 2006 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You haven't been paying any attention to BB for...

the past years, if you think Swish will sit if he has a poor Spring Training, and if either Keilty or Payton are lights out in the desert in March. If Swish has a poor April and May, he might sit for awhile in June, but he and DJ are going to be around for a long time with the A's and both will be playing most every day.

by robertmelvin on Jan 25, 2006 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Awesome

I'll all for the Thomas singing. Think it's a great move. I wish we would have a team option on him for the 2007 season - but oh well. ESPN reports the base salary was 500,000 (can go up to 2.4). I think it was a huge loss to every other team in MLB to miss a great opportunity like this. Glad Beane and the A's picked him up. Lets hope for his good health!

by MoneyManWilliam on Jan 25, 2006 2:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

correction (not a huge deal, just saying)

1 yr for $500,000 that can go up to $3.1 million in total:

OAKLAND, Calif. -- Free agent slugger Frank Thomas agreed to a one-year, $500,000 contract with Oakland on Wednesday, giving the Athletics the big bat they've been searching for in the middle of their lineup.

Thomas, a two-time American League MVP who has been slowed by injuries in recent years, can make an additional $2.6 million in bonuses based on plate appearances and not hurting his left foot.

"...and in Joe [Blanton]'s case, it's almost like he crammed the whole rookie year in a month, then became a veteran." --Billy Beane

by rungood on Jan 25, 2006 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Still...

Hatteberg earned slightly less than what Thomas may earn next years. And, not to knock Hatte, but who has a bigger upside?

"Put a Milo on him." -Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on Jan 25, 2006 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, I know!!

And I love answering rhetorical questions.

I'm sooo excited about having the Big Hurt for so cheap, and I think it's preposterous that other teams didn't risk taking a flier on him for even a bit more. I mean, $3.1mil (max) is less than his buyout from the Chi-Sox!!

PS: Sorry Hatte, it's no contest.

"...and in Joe [Blanton]'s case, it's almost like he crammed the whole rookie year in a month, then became a veteran." --Billy Beane

by rungood on Jan 25, 2006 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

"bigger upside"?

I think Frank has a bigger upside, downside, leftside, rightside, inside, and outside than just about anyone except maybe CC Sabathia or Prince Fielder.

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 25, 2006 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

don't forget backside

the most important side of all.

"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King

by batgirl on Jan 26, 2006 12:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ah, but ...

... bigger isn't necessarily better when it comes to the backside ...

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 26, 2006 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not according to Sir Mix-a-lot

aw heck. Now I'm going to have that in my head all day. I blame you.

"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King

by batgirl on Jan 26, 2006 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't blame me!

Blame Macha!

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 26, 2006 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

still cheap

$3.1 million for a healthy season out of big time slugger is a bargain. If he is healthy Thomas can hit 30-40 HR's easily and his OBP can stay around .470 -.490

"At this point I bleed Green & Gold,"- Lew Wolff

by BashBrothers89 on Jan 25, 2006 3:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

agree

3.1 million for a slugger of his caliber is a bargain. If he makes the PA's hes pretty much a lock for solid OBP and SLG, even if the HR totals arent that great.

Bill Stoneman is about to be offered three seasons of a right-handed version of Vladimir Guerrero - Rev Halofan

by pickinmachine on Jan 25, 2006 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I dunno

If it'll be that high. A .470 OBP is downright Bondsian. I think a full season will be somewhere between .385-.410. Although that's nothing to complain about. I'm so giddy over this signing I can hardly contain myself. I immediately blasted "Shout" by the Isley Brothers when I found out. Everyone in my building must think I'm nuts.

"May our feet be swift. May our bats be mighty. And may our balls be...plentiful."

by nothinlikethetown on Jan 25, 2006 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

the more we pay, the better the player

at least in this case, that's assured. It's a great contract for the A's. And if he produces, everyone's happy.

by Brian in 317 on Jan 25, 2006 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I really like the contract

If he's hurt, he's a small loss. $500k is a nice gamble, small downside there.

It's a great contract. From the AP:

Thomas can earn $1.4 million in roster bonuses if he is on the active major league roster or not on the DL related to a left foot injury. He would get $325,000 each on May 1 and June 15, and $375,000 apiece on July 15 and Aug. 15.

He also can earn $1.2 million in performance bonuses: $200,000 each for 300, 350, 400, 450, 500 and 550 plate appearances.

So, even if he's healthy, he's still under $3 million. That seems like a bargain for a player of Thomas's ability.

The danger is if he is playing, but nagging injuries and age diminish his skills. Seems worth the risk.

by kirbyk on Jan 25, 2006 3:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Well

If that wording is accurate, all they have to do in order to keep him from reaching those bonuses would be to remove him from the active major league roster, i.e. designating him for assignment. They could release him if he's healthy but struggling.

by OaktownTribesman on Jan 25, 2006 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It would have to be hopeless for the

Union to sit through that

Besides Barton has there ever been a ROY at DH?

by A s Eh on Jan 25, 2006 10:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Payton vs Kielty

The only reason to keep both Payton and Kielty is if you are betting on an injury - which, would probably be a good bet seeing as how Thomas, Bradley, and Kotsay all were out for consideral periods of time last season. But as pointed out in one of Urban's articles both players will be paid quite a bit of money to hang around awaiting an injury that hopefully never occurs.

As some have written, this is a nice predicament to have; however, it could be bad in terms of how it affects the clubhouse. Payton showed in Boston that he is not one to sit on the bench and be nice about it. Kielty on the other hand, though he too would not be happy, would be more patient and less vocal about his displeasure.

I for one advocate trading Kielty, keeping Payton, and bringing up Charles Thomas or Watson to serve as an emergency OFer of late inning baserunner. Payton is more versatile, can play CF if necessary, and IMO more consistant at the plate (Kielty seems to only produce at the plate when he is in the line-up day in and day-out - not a great attribute for a bench player). It would be easier to give Payton enough PT to keep him happy if that PT is not split with another deserving player such as Kielty.

The only downside is that Kielty will not fetch as much on the market as Payton. Looking at our young crop of players in our farm system, however, I'd say we could survive without obtaining a prized future talent. Maybe some cash and a decent young prospect.

"Do you ever get down on your knees and thank God you know me and have access to my dementia?" - George Costanza

by Captain on Jan 25, 2006 3:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Payton v. Kielty

I haven't always been biggest Kielty's biggest fan, but I still advocate keeping him over Payton. Here are a few reasons:

Payton has a bigger market value than Kielty right now
Payton makes $4 million in '06 vs. $1.85 million for Kielty
Payton is 33 years old on opening day, while Kielty's only 29
Kielty is a switch hitter, Payton bats only Righty
Kielty's got some good A's mojo-- when he hit that walkoff and fluffed up his hair as he rounded 3rd, everyone started smacking him on the head and he got the team all fired up. Payton, on the other hand, while he embraced his arrival in Oakland, whined in Boston about PT and could be a problem in 2006.
On the stats side, Payton's line (BA/OBP/SLG/OPS) reads: .267/.306/.444/.750. Kielty's: .263/.350/.395/.745. That's an OPS of -.005 for Kielty, which is negligible. With the addition of Frank Thomas, I'd much rather have Kielty's high OBP than Payton's high SLG%.

To me the choice is easy. Keep Kielty.

"...and in Joe [Blanton]'s case, it's almost like he crammed the whole rookie year in a month, then became a veteran." --Billy Beane

by rungood on Jan 25, 2006 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

you forgot

that Payton is a MUCH better outfielder than Kielty is. I know it would suck but if Kotsay AND MB get hurt you could put Payton in CF easily.

Bill Stoneman is about to be offered three seasons of a right-handed version of Vladimir Guerrero - Rev Halofan

by pickinmachine on Jan 25, 2006 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

you're right about the overall defense, but

I was just saying that if we had to trade one, I would trade away the older player with more market value, higher salary and comparable offensive stats. With Kots and Milton Bradley both being very capable defensive CFs, our OF is still quite good, even with Kielty out there.

Now, I don't know if Beane trades either, and I'm not advocating this. In fact, I think that unless Beane gets a deal that he can't refuse from a team he doesn't mind giving a solid player to, he doesn't trade either guy and keeps the current depth. Our lineup is great right now, so I stand pat if I'm Beane. But if he does trade one, I think it should be Payton.

"...and in Joe [Blanton]'s case, it's almost like he crammed the whole rookie year in a month, then became a veteran." --Billy Beane

by rungood on Jan 25, 2006 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You also forgot

That Kielty is a switch hitter only in theory. He's a switch-hitter from the right side and a switch-misser from the left. Or, he's a switch hitter like Frank Thomas is a first baseman.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Jan 25, 2006 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If Kots and MB get hurt at the same time.....

well f-it, cuz Payton is not going to save us anymore than Kielty can't save us. I don't know if that makes sense, but you catch my drift.

"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on Jan 25, 2006 3:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

definetly catch your drift

we're screwed if they both go down. I was thinking more along the line of potential nagging day to day type injuries.

Bill Stoneman is about to be offered three seasons of a right-handed version of Vladimir Guerrero - Rev Halofan

by pickinmachine on Jan 25, 2006 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree Capt.

Kotsay has the same back problem that he had last year. he will prolly miss many games. He needs back-ups !

by IM4Oakgal on Jan 25, 2006 7:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

wow

i'm almost giddy about this, this is the year we make a run, a serious run

ohio roots

by nickatt7 on Jan 25, 2006 3:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

If Frank gets 400 At-Bats in 2006

I'll be giddy, too.

150 ABs, and I'll just be woozy.

by Mission1929 on Jan 25, 2006 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Frank Thomas is eleventh all time in OPS

You forgot about Pujols (he has over 3,000 PAs now)

by SuperDingus on Jan 25, 2006 3:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Tell Baseball Almanac.com to update

their page then.

by Blez on Jan 25, 2006 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes.

Yes, yes, yes, yes!

by IMissMiggy on Jan 25, 2006 3:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Intimidating...

I can't remember the last time we had an intimidating lineup..maybe Miggy's last year? Hope he stays healthy, the rest of the team stays healthy, hope the "kids" have great sophomore seasons, hope we can fill up the ballpark to cheer this team all the way to deep October!
Go A's!!

"Listen, my attitude is a whole lot better when we win..." Our favorite GM

by LongTimeFan on Jan 25, 2006 3:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Another aspect of this signing

If he has a great '05 campaign we also have a shot at getting a first round pick for him when he walks.

"May our feet be swift. May our bats be mighty. And may our balls be...plentiful."

by nothinlikethetown on Jan 25, 2006 3:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Hatte is gone.

So...Billy hearts Hurt?

Thomas and A's GM Billy Beane spoke at length at the winter meetings in December and, Tellem said, "Frank really clicked with Billy. He felt comfortable with him. That only reaffirmed Oakland as his No. 1 choice. Obviously, they share the same hitting philosphy."

By all accounts, the two were very impressed with each other. It's a match made in heaven, I think.

"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Jan 25, 2006 3:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

awww

Definitely a perfect match. And you can see how anxious both sides were to get the deal done:

Beane signed the contract even though Thomas still doesn't have medical clearance to play, apparently worried that someone else would tempt Thomas with a bigger offer once that happened
Thomas, for his part, was willing to give up a shot at that bigger contract, instead taking almost no guaranteed money to come to a team that values his approach and has a good chance to win.

Bright moments!

by andeux on Jan 25, 2006 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh no!

Now Hatty and Frank Thomas are gonna have a catfight for Billy's love. :-(

"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." -Robert S. Wieder

by Kyli on Jan 25, 2006 10:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I love this move

Even before the A's traded for (and since then) I've been saying the A's would sign Thomas. This is a perfect example of a low risk / high benefit move. I wouldn't be surprised if Payton was moved, but at the same time he could stay...I think Swisher and Johnson are going to play pretty much every day at RF and 1B with Thomas at DH and this leaves Payton the odd man out. Kielty has pretty much always been a bench player and I suspect we'll keep him plus Beane loves him. My lineup would be:

Kendall C
Kotsay CF
Chavez 3B
Thomas DH
Bradley LF
Crosby SS
Swisher RF
Johnson 1B
Ellis 2B

Ellis and Kendall could be switched, but I really think Chavez needs to bat in front of Thomas whether Thomas is 4th or 5th...i.e.

Bradley
Chavez
Thomas

But if your life is such a big joke, then why should I care?

by johnspaz7 on Jan 25, 2006 3:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Chavez will have a legitimate

power threat behind him for the first time in a while. I expect him to have his best pro season ever, despite the supposed myth of protection.

by Blez on Jan 25, 2006 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

god i love the look of that.

it dosnt seem real yet but the best things in life never do.

i think i prefer Ellis because he shined in the leadoff spot last year and Kendal pulling up the rear because his AVG with reunners in scoring possition was freekn' sweet last year..... and i dont think it unreasonable, with there power, to expect Swish and DJ to make it to second.

oh man im exited.

"Baseball is simple. You throw the ball. You hit the ball. You catch the ball. sometimes you win. some times you loose. some times it rains." -Bull Durham

by DC on Jan 25, 2006 5:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Mark Ellis hit 10 homeruns in august and september

last year though. And he lead the team in slugging, if Kendall regains his form he`d be fine leading off. IF.

by SuperDingus on Jan 26, 2006 9:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It is starting to sink in

And as it does, I am beginning to really like this idea. More-so if we don't get rid of anyone.

When I read "The lineup looks intimidating now. With Ellis, Kotsay, Thomas, Chavez, Bradley, Crosby, Johnson, Swisher and Kendall, this team will have the ability to put up runs in bunches." I actually got CHILLS!!

I am getting VERY excited! I can't wait for Saturday!!

GO A's 2006!!

"If you know Nick, having someone to talk to is a prerequisite for his sanity." ~Billy Beane on Swisher playing 1st Base.

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Jan 25, 2006 3:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Billy on 680 right now

Razor is jealous... go A's!

by GrewUpAtTheColiseum on Jan 25, 2006 3:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

WOO!

Thanks!

"If you know Nick, having someone to talk to is a prerequisite for his sanity." ~Billy Beane on Swisher playing 1st Base.

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Jan 25, 2006 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The 4th OF is going to get a lot of ABs

I think it should be Payton because of his versatility. Now, if the Red Sox don't get Crisp (I believe they will get him) and get desperate enough to give us an excellent prospect for Payton, then trade Jay. My guess is that the A's might start the season with both Payton and Kielty on the roster but that they will ultimately carry 12 pitchers instead. How about sending Kielty to Sacto to hit right-handed exclusively?

The Thomas signing is great. Low $ risk, young players not given up or blocked, and a very good chance that if Thomas is healthy, he will hit (ABs won't be wasted).

"Young, cheap and talented is the best way to go through life, son." --Dean Beane

by dylantravis on Jan 25, 2006 3:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

If Kotsay goes down ...

Bradley will be in center; Keilty in left and Swish in right. Bradley is just as good as Payton as a defensive CF,......... so I agree with most of you: Payton goes and Kielty stays; and that BB is probably now working on the follow-up deal: trading Payton (probably to Boston) for a RP + maybe a prospect.

by robertmelvin on Jan 25, 2006 6:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What's the over/under...

...on Thomas playing over 100 games?

Micah realizes that this is not a very expensive move, but when I look at the A's I see a team that is close to being very good.

I know a team in Toronto that has quite a few different statues all playing 3B/1B/DH; all of whom will have better seasons than Frank.

And for those wondering, yes, I did transition from the 3rd person to the 1st person in mid-sentence. It's an acquired skill that newbies should not try to employ.

"Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out" - Vaclav Havel

by Czech Micah on Jan 25, 2006 3:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

i'd say 70 games

by panchopunch on Jan 25, 2006 4:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What?

Hinske in '05: 537 PA 17.1 VORP

Hillenbrand in '05: 645 PA 32.5 VORP

Overbay in '05: 622 PA 33.3 VORP

Thomas in '05: 124 PA 9.2 VORP

If Thomas plays in 100 games (roughly 400 PA): 29.67 VORP

Shea Hillenbrand over 400 PA(who is not likely to be as productive in '06): 20.2 VORP

Lyle Overbay over 400 PA: 21.4 VORP

Eric Hinske over 400 PA: 12.7 VORP

If Thomas is even remotely healthy, there's no way the Jays 1B/DH clusterf#@k outproduces him.

"May our feet be swift. May our bats be mighty. And may our balls be...plentiful."

by nothinlikethetown on Jan 25, 2006 4:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Why do...

...Overbay's and Hillendbrand's "VORP" drop by ten points? Is that assuming that '05 was a career year for each? Incidently, Thomas's "VORP" somehow rises by 20 points?

Given their age, health, location I'd say Hillenbrand and Overbay will definitly end up with a higher "VORP" than that of Thomas.

Thanks for proving my point, nothinlikethetown.

"Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out" - Vaclav Havel

by Czech Micah on Jan 25, 2006 4:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Their Vorp

changes due to playing time. My point was to prove that over the same number of AB's, Thomas is a much better player. It all depends on how you define productive, I guess.

"May our feet be swift. May our bats be mighty. And may our balls be...plentiful."

by nothinlikethetown on Jan 25, 2006 5:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way

I calculated their VORP based on their average VORP per PA and then projected it over 400 PA's. It's not a prediction of 2006, its just using last years numbers to show that Thomas was better than them given playing time.

Also, 2005 was a career year for Hillenbrand. Compare any other season (even his injury marred 2004) and Thomas destroys Shea.

"May our feet be swift. May our bats be mighty. And may our balls be...plentiful."

by nothinlikethetown on Jan 25, 2006 5:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's what one poll says

http://www.athleticsnation.com/story/2006/1/7/174634/0803

Joe Blanton is phat

by gojohn10 on Jan 25, 2006 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Billy says

JayPay to Boston for Wells rumor is "completely false."

"...and in Joe [Blanton]'s case, it's almost like he crammed the whole rookie year in a month, then became a veteran." --Billy Beane

by rungood on Jan 25, 2006 3:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

yea

I don't think we were ever going to get Wells...it was part of a 3-way deal with the Dodgers...I know initially the Boston Herald (highly unreliable and biased Boston paper) said it was Wells to the A's, but they don't know what they are ever talking about. It's one of the things I hate about living on the East coast...

Last offseason the Sox equivalent of Urban (Ian Browne) suggested the Sox traded Hanley Ramirez (at the time their top SS prospect) to the A's for Zito...you know, because we needed a SS. We didn't have the AL ROY Bobby Crosby or anything...morons

But if your life is such a big joke, then why should I care?

by johnspaz7 on Jan 25, 2006 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I wish the season started today

BOY am I excited!

"Baseball is like church, many attend, few understand" - Leo Durocher

by gWiLiKeRzZz on Jan 25, 2006 3:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Great stuff from Billy [on depth]

"We're like Ikea furniture right now...we can move guys wherever we want."

"...and in Joe [Blanton]'s case, it's almost like he crammed the whole rookie year in a month, then became a veteran." --Billy Beane

by rungood on Jan 25, 2006 3:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

IKEA?

Does that mean Frank Thomas' ankle is made of particle board?

Bright moments!

by andeux on Jan 25, 2006 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed!

I hope that Thomas is stays together than most stuff available there. Do you think there will be some assembly required?

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Jan 25, 2006 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That would explain why ...

... the A's have always had trouble putting things together when they reach home!

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 25, 2006 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

sends Billy some new metaphors

(he's now used "IKEA" at least three times in the past month)

"You don't look up truthiness in a book, you look it up in your gut." ~ Stephen Colbert

by Poppy on Jan 25, 2006 9:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The financial side is amazing

I'm flabbergasted at how cheap we've gotten him. I mean, I'm not the most experienced with baseball salaries, but at absolute best I would have imagined a downside three times what it is with bonuses taking it to at least a potential $4-5m if he stayed healthy and playing for the year. What we've actually gotten him for almost seems to eliminate any real risk from the equation - even for a club of our financial limits. Amazing.

I guess now all we can do is hope for good health.

"We don't talk, we hold forth. We don't converse, we expound."

by textonly on Jan 25, 2006 3:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Ya...

He only cost us about 2 Futons, Desk, and some throw pillows from IKEA... at least he has more potential than cheaply priced furniture.

by gdub171 on Jan 25, 2006 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We got Frank Thomas for

500,000 Jr. Bacon Cheeseburgers and if he reaches his incentives we will only have to pay him 2.6 million Frostees extra!!!! What a steal. Billy Beane Rules!!!!

by orANgecountyAsfan on Jan 25, 2006 5:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It was cheap because

Frank Thomas already has a $3.5 million contract buyout payment for 2006 from the White Sox deposited in his southside Chicago bank account.

by robertmelvin on Jan 25, 2006 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I keep hearing

This, "Swisher may be playing Left field!"

God I hope so! He will be closer to ME!

"If you know Nick, having someone to talk to is a prerequisite for his sanity." ~Billy Beane on Swisher playing 1st Base.

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Jan 25, 2006 3:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

so that means

bradley in rightfield eh? i like it!

"Baseball is like church, many attend, few understand" - Leo Durocher

by gWiLiKeRzZz on Jan 25, 2006 3:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I like how this move played out...

...but I'm not ready to name the A's (or any team) favorites to get to the World Series, especially in January.

While I'm not about to call the postseason a complete crapshoot (I think pitching depth is a big factor), the playoffs can be such a wild animal that I just can't think that far ahead. I could try, but I'd put the odds of me being right as low.

The AL West, however, looks ripe for the picking. Gotta get that first, anyway. :)

AN Member Location Surveys: Results | Take part

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Jan 25, 2006 3:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Did someone say "crapshoot"?

You do know that's the equivalent of Commissioner Gordon lighting up the Monkey-Signal, right?

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Jan 25, 2006 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I did not...

But I do now. I'll try never to do that again... :)

AN Member Location Surveys: Results | Take part

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Jan 26, 2006 8:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thomas bigger impact on Bradley?

This isn't the most politically correct thought but maybe a missing benefit of Frank Thomas his impact on Milton Bradley. Given that Bradley seems to be a moodly player and has already brought up a racial comment against another player (Jeff Kent, who knows if it's true), would Thomas bring more comfort for Bradley to flourish? The A's, let alone MLB, lack many African-American players and this signing makes the A's more culturally diverse. This isn't a Civil Rights issue or anything like that but possibly a better comfort level for a volatile player as Bradley.

by rightbackin on Jan 25, 2006 3:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

When was the last time the A's had 3 black players

Hendu, Ricky, and Stew. Now Frank, Milton, and Jay

by theblackpearl on Jan 25, 2006 4:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

2004

dye, rhodes, mclemore

"You might as well not even look for it because you're not going to hit it." -Alex Rodriguez on Barry Zito's curveball.

by The Game on Jan 25, 2006 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

billy mac

dont forget billy mcmillon. thats 4 by my count

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Jan 25, 2006 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

How soon we forgot....

Dye, McLemore, Rhodes?

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jan 25, 2006 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn..Beat me!

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jan 25, 2006 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

4 players

Dave Parker was on that team also.

Bill Stoneman is about to be offered three seasons of a right-handed version of Vladimir Guerrero - Rev Halofan

by pickinmachine on Jan 25, 2006 6:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This is great

It is about time
Billy took my advice .
I challenge someone to find an earlier post about signing Frank-the-tank.

I am so excited for spring training.... Go A's!!!

by gaucho on Jan 25, 2006 4:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Challenge...

accepted

http://www.athleticsnation.com/comments/2004/10/29/92056/547/5#5

by Alon on Jan 25, 2006 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i would disagree with that comment

he was not brought in for "cultural diversity" he was brought in for obp power and to protect chavy.

it wouldn't have mattered if he was purple, with those kind of career numbers.

ohio roots

by nickatt7 on Jan 25, 2006 4:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

He never said he was signed because he was black

he said since he signed, and he is black.

by theblackpearl on Jan 25, 2006 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It wasn't my point...

My point was that it was an unnoticed possible benefit to Milton Bradley, not an equality issue. Thomas got it done the past and can do it next season, that's why the A's signed him.

by rightbackin on Jan 25, 2006 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you make a good point

Race is a huge issue to Milton Bradley. Having another African-American player on the team can only help that--especially when he's one of the greatest players of all time.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Jan 25, 2006 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hope this impact is true

Thomas may have a bigger impact on Chavez then in Bradley. Now,oppositing manager may focus little more on Thomas and Bradley then Chavez or even Crosby or Swisher or Johnson. Even though, I put this link on another diary here is an interesting take on Thomas deal by our friends at Catfish Stew:

http://catfishstew.baseballtoaster.com/

Macha is a great manager. -Ron Washington

by pachydermOAFC on Jan 25, 2006 4:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I like the move, but

I think you're off base on the clubhouse presence reputation, Blez. It's my impression that he wasn't a great clubhouse guy. Plus for being one of the best hitters of all time, he's not that big of a star, compared, say to Manny. I think part of that has to do with his unfriendliness to reporters.

Obviously I don't know the guy, but I don't know where you got the idea that he has a good clubhouse rep. Take it for what it's worth, but Guillen clashed with him over that same thing, IIRC.

C'mon Billy, make it Hurt so good.

by As Man on Jan 25, 2006 4:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Cool.

This is awesome. My friends still don't believe we have the potential to go all the way, but i'm tellin ya, i feel something special about this group. Signing people with something to prove (Bradley and Thomas) is always a good idea. Does anyone know what the lineup might look like now with the Thomas signing?

Tallahassee Florida - Lincoln Trojans - The OTHER Green and Gold.

by FinalDawn34 on Jan 25, 2006 4:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Does anyone know what the lineup might look like..

No, lineups are never discussed here on AN.

Oh, except here.

"Keep the juices going by jangling around gently as you move." - Satchel Paige

by McFood on Jan 25, 2006 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't emphasize enough

how excited I am about this move. I grew up in awe of this man, and now in his twilight years, he's on my favorite team! Let's hope for a John Jaha-esque revival. One or two more years for the Big Hurt!

by noava22 on Jan 25, 2006 4:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

All I Have To Say Is....

YES!!!!!!

by LLawbug on Jan 25, 2006 4:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

MLB.com is a joke...

Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez (left) and first baseman Jason Giambi make up one of the strongest corner infield duos in baseball. (Kathy Willens/AP)

ha. AROD and Hatteberg would make one of the strongest ones too... obviously.

Chavez and DJ combined can take AROD, and Giambi only gets points acting more like a 1st base coach than a player.

by gdub171 on Jan 25, 2006 4:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'd take Thomas for 500k+incentives...

anyday over that joke in NY with his 100 mil.

by gdub171 on Jan 25, 2006 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Umm....

A Rod + Giambi was 80 HR and 200 RBI last year....They are in a diff world than Chavy and DJ, sorry

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jan 25, 2006 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, those are some darkly tinted green and gold

glasses, to think otherwise

by theblackpearl on Jan 25, 2006 4:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

except

for the fact that Giambi only played 78 of his 139 games at 1B. That's 61 games as DH. He wouldn't be able to play a full season at 1B and his numbers would suffer.

Of Johnson's 109 games he played 101 at 1B.

But if your life is such a big joke, then why should I care?

by johnspaz7 on Jan 25, 2006 5:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure,

but what will that # be this year? With FT signed, DJ will probably get ~50 some games at DH, and around ~80-90 or so at 1b, so it comes out kind of similar, and Giambi is a better bat... This isn't a serious comparison (Chavvy/DJ-ARod/Giambi), is it?

by Alon on Jan 25, 2006 6:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

no

I didn't bring it up. My point was the you can't really say Giambi was the 1B when he played less than half of the team's games at 1B. A-Rod is their 3B, no doubt about that. Giambi wasn't their 1B though. So the comparison of the A's 1B and 3B to the Yanks is a moot point in the first place.

But if your life is such a big joke, then why should I care?

by johnspaz7 on Jan 25, 2006 6:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

they have always had some black players

in 02: JD, t-Long, Dave Justice,durham
in 03: JD,Chris Singelton, t-long,McMillon
in 04: JD,Rhodes, Maclemore,McMillion

It was only in 05 where the A's were criticized because i think Charles Thomas was the only black player on their roster.

"At this point I bleed Green & Gold,"- Lew Wolff

by BashBrothers89 on Jan 25, 2006 4:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Dave Justice is black?

"Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out" - Vaclav Havel

by Czech Micah on Jan 25, 2006 4:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ummm..Yea?

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jan 25, 2006 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Halle said that a few years ago,

by theblackpearl on Jan 25, 2006 4:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Did somebody say "crapshoot"??

Which did we get with Frank Thomas?

Frank Robinson goes to Cleveland at age 38, and never again gets more than 120 at-bats or hits more than 9 home runs.
Willie McCovey signs with the Giants in 1977 at 39 years old...hits .280 with 28 home runs and a OPS of .867.
Duke Snider signs with the Giants at age 37 in 1964 and gets 91 ABs, hitting .210.
Reggie Jackson goes to the Angels in 1982 at age 36 and hits more HRs than his age (39), along with a .532 slugging percentage.
Willie Mays plays for the Mets in 1973 at age 43...one of the most embarrassing seasons in professional sports history.

and don't forget...

The Babe goes to Boston (the other Boston) for the last year of his career, age 40.....and we all know how it worked out.

We have officially just entered the Big Slugger Late in His Career Lottery and Keno Sweepstakes.

by Mission1929 on Jan 25, 2006 5:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

if thomas sucks or gets hurt

$500k = essentially free

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 25, 2006 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

How old is Barry Bonds?

Julio what's his name that just signed w/ the Mets???

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Martin Luther King

by sf drift king on Jan 25, 2006 6:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Answers

Bonds: 42

Franco: 46

"May our feet be swift. May our bats be mighty. And may our balls be...plentiful."

by nothinlikethetown on Jan 25, 2006 10:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

and age doesn't seem to matter for them.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Martin Luther King

by sf drift king on Jan 25, 2006 11:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What a day!

the great playoff miss of 2004 followed by the good try of 2005.

by ak_A on Jan 25, 2006 5:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Just in time for my birthday

THANKS BILLY!!!

by kvn on Jan 25, 2006 5:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Not to rain on anybody's parade

but this is far from a sure thing. I love the signing, don't get me wrong, because there's absolutely no risk involved.

But to say we're the favorites of the American League if Thomas is healthy? That's a bit much. I think if he's healthy he'll hit around .250, with a .370-.380 OBP, possibly a .480 slugging percentage, and 25-30 home runs. Frank Thomas is 37 years old, and will 38 before the season is even two months old. So he's had health problems, is two years removed from his last all star caliber season, and is 37 on top of this. Even if he had hit his 2003 line last year, it'd be a reach to think he could hit that again.

Like I said, don't get me wrong, I love the deal. I think he can be a really productive right handed power bat for us, but this man isn't winning MVP, or even making the All Star team for that matter.

by walk off bunt on Jan 25, 2006 5:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

The Rev is worked up

http://www.halosheaven.com/story/2006/1/25/1857/33215

Guy needs his meds.

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Jan 25, 2006 5:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Wow

that guy is wound up tighter than a snare drum. I especially liked the three consecutive posts to himself. I personally love this deal-worst case scenario is it doesn't pan out and they release him. Best case scenario is a RH thumper for about 100 games and the playoffs. I think World Series favorites would be premature (it's the champs until their starters lose their fairy dust)-but AL West favorites? Definitely.

by Doug on Jan 25, 2006 5:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

before he was just an annoying asshole

now he is either crazy or stupid:

"still not a stolen base in sight
Sample inning: Walk, GIDP, K - The Oakland Way"

didn't the a's outscore the angels last year?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 25, 2006 5:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Rev is a little nuts

But I would like to see some speed on the A's roster.

Why yes. I am a ray of Fucking sunshine.

by grover on Jan 25, 2006 8:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ha!

...comparing Thomas to Erstad.

By the way, the Angels -- they will rake.

"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Jan 25, 2006 5:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Man

those were some lame posts by the Rev.

"Put a Milo on him." -Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on Jan 25, 2006 5:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The stuff about Harden is priceless.

"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Jan 25, 2006 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This guy is entertaining

The kind of blogmaster the Angels deserve.

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Jan 25, 2006 6:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hilarious!

oh, but isn't jealousy just so, so ugly?

"You don't look up truthiness in a book, you look it up in your gut." ~ Stephen Colbert

by Poppy on Jan 25, 2006 9:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not bad

Now we can really downplay Chavez if he doesn't have that dominant season, what with this talent.

The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it.-W. M. Lewis

by doublehustle22 on Jan 25, 2006 5:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I know this is a little harsh but...

I still think that if Chavez or Crosby gets injured, this team will crumble.

Jim Essian: The only Oakland Athletic to hit an Inside the Park Grand Slam.

by OaktownRajah on Jan 25, 2006 5:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Rev -- Is that you?

by SportySpice on Jan 25, 2006 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Great signing !

If he's hurt and doesn't play 1 gm we're out $500,000.
But if dude bounces back from injury and starts to produce, BB found a bargain basement slugger this team so desperately needed.

It is well worth the risk. Now if he can only manage to make it to 1st base w/out hurting that fragile ankle of his..

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Martin Luther King

by sf drift king on Jan 25, 2006 6:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

YABU

made 500k last year and we all know how that turned out. Least of all, FT puts fans in the seats and we're well on our way to recouping this minimal investment. I'm going to all the games I can, when I get back in the country, that is.

"...and in Joe [Blanton]'s case, it's almost like he crammed the whole rookie year in a month, then became a veteran." --Billy Beane

by rungood on Jan 25, 2006 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

good point,

get your season ticket packages now people. I finally got mine.

Yaaay!

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Martin Luther King

by sf drift king on Jan 25, 2006 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Another plus: great clubhouse jewelry

While not as important as the 1.000 OPS, I like that someone in the A's clubhouse will be flashing a freshly minted World Series ring. Doesn't hurt to show the kids a little taste of what they're striving for. And the cheers for a returning champion he'll hear on the Southside 5/22 will only reinforce that message.

They're not booing...they're saying Leeewwwwwww!

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jan 25, 2006 6:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Is it Frank and not our buddy Charles.......

Big Hurt is a great improvement over the last Thomas we acquired....

Morada Mudshark

by Morada Mudshark on Jan 25, 2006 7:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Two Buck Chuck!

and now 500K Frank.

the great playoff miss of 2004 followed by the good try of 2005 with no more hex in 2006.

by ak_A on Jan 25, 2006 7:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't trade anyone!

How the heck does trading Kielty or Payton for a prospect make the A's a better team? Unless that prospect is BJ Upton or something? Depth matters! Bradley, Kotsay, Thomas all are injury prone. They will not play 162 or even 142. Swisher and Johnson are weak vs lefties. Kielty fits here. These trade proposals that assume Thomas is in the lineup on anything close to an everyday basis are not rooted in reality.

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 25, 2006 7:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Great clubhouse presence?????

Blez you need to check your sources. Frank was horrible in the White Sox clubhouse, and that was widely reported. Konerko called him out a few years ago, and Guillen called him out last spring training as needing to be more concerned with team issues and less concerned with personal issues. Thomas has NEVER been called a positive clubhouse influence. At best, he's been described as someone who's not a problem...far from a ringing endorsement. Now, all the time away, and watching the Sox win the Series might have changed him, but to say that he's widely considered a positive influence in the clubhouse is flat out incorrect. You've been drinking more of the kool-aid....
I like the signing because of the limited exposure, but let's understand what Thomas is and what he isn't. He's a right handed power hitter if healthy. Any team chemistry is going to need to be created by the veterans, led by Zito and Chavez. Thomas isn't a cohesive builder, and tends to sulk if he doesn't think he's getting enough "respect" (see his parting comments for the White Sox).

by IndianaAsfan on Jan 25, 2006 7:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Thomas...

"Thomas has NEVER been called a positive clubhouse influence. At best, he's been described as someone who's not a problem..."

Not a problem? If you said this to Jerry Manuel and Reinsdorf they will punch you right in your face, Thomas was a destructive force in the clubhouse for YEARS!!!

by Olijerez77 on Jan 25, 2006 8:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

well...

He'll fit right in, and make good friends with Milton Bradley then ;)

'It was just another win.' --Billy Beane

by balldood on Jan 25, 2006 11:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

that was the point of my post, did you read it? When I said, at best he's been described as not a problem, I was referring to the past season and comments attributed to Guillen where he said Thomas was not a problem.
As to Reinsdorf, he can hit me anywhere he wants, he's a little guy. Manuel doesn't get mad enough to hit anyone.

by IndianaAsfan on Jan 26, 2006 8:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Franks Power is still there:

Although Thomas only had 345 AB's the last two years due to his foot problems, when he was in the line up he had a HR at a rate of 1 every 11.5 Ab's; as opposed to a carrer rate of 1 every 15.5 AB's. So the power is still there, with a flick of his massive wrists. I also noted that although it won't be a factor, his carrer fielding percentage is 0.991, only 89 errors in 15 years.

by robertmelvin on Jan 25, 2006 8:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

500K for a PH

When he's not playing they can wait until there is a good situation to throw him into the game. There are worse deals for guys on the bench out there (I'm looking at you Barry Bonds).

Who plays more next year Barry 3 knee operations and no more special sauce Bonds or Frank twice cooked ankle Thomas? It's a closer argument than their salaries are.

"If you throw at someone's head, it's very dangerous, because in the head is the brain." -- Pudge Rodriguez

by niallmack on Jan 25, 2006 8:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I have only one thing to say...

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Damn kids" -Ron Flores

by secret ASian man on Jan 25, 2006 10:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'm really excited.

This looks like a great deal -- if he's injured, we don't lose much money and we've got great backup. If he's healthy... he's most likely going to do well.

This looks like a stellar deal, though I'm very curious whether it'll be Kielty or Payton to go... or if BB'll stick it out til the inevitable first injury.

People should probably be scared. The last deal I like this much? Mark Redman. :-/

"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." -Robert S. Wieder

by Kyli on Jan 25, 2006 10:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

World Series Champions 2006: 25 Man Roster

Pitchers: Position Players:
Zito C Kendall
Harden C Melheuse
Loaiza 1B Johnson
Haren 2B Ellis
Blanton SS Crosby
Saarloos 2B/SS Scutaro
Duke 3B Chavez
Kennedy 3B/SS Perez
Calero DH Thomas
Witasick OF Bradley
Street OF Kotsay
OF Payton
OF Kielty
OF/1B Swisher

Jim Essian: The only Oakland Athletic to hit an Inside the Park Grand Slam.

by OaktownRajah on Jan 25, 2006 10:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Meyer

Hey, if Meyer can put it back together in AAA, the A's could have themselves one heck of a lefty out of the pen in the latter months of the season.

Looking like months upon months in advance at the trading deadline, the A's may be willing to part with Scutaro because Perez is going to be a stud--just trust me. Also, they could use a little bit of speed if they can get it--like Dave Roberts for the Red Sox in 04, an insurance policy on the bases in the late innings. Depending on health, they may need a bat obviously too. Also, if Kendall is underperforming it will be interesting to see if they go after a Catcher.

Oh ya, how trading Payton/Kielty could make the A's better: If they get a decent arm who puts together a string of good outings in the minors they could ship him out at the deadline.

'It was just another win.' --Billy Beane

by balldood on Jan 25, 2006 11:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Waaa Hoooooo!

What a great signing! I'm super psyched for the season! Bring it on! Let's go A's!

by A'sfansince1970 on Jan 25, 2006 11:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

the sound you hear...

...is the cash registers ringing with new season ticket purchasers.

Great, risk-free signing, he wants to come here, and I love, love, love the idea of using him late as a PH in games he doesn't start.

Make no mistake, barring total decimation by injury (always a possibility), we are now officially STACKED, more so than maybe any other team of the BB era.

My sig is looking more and more potentially prophetic as we inch towards Spring Training, for which I now officially can't wait.

The only real downside I can think of right now is that Bill King won't be around to call FT's first late-inning AB in a tight game with guys on base.

1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Jan 26, 2006 1:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Check out this week's Sports Weekly

It gives the rundown on the A's farm system and prospects. It's pretty much stuff AN'ers know already, but they rank us at #1. It's still worth reading.
If anyone already mentioned this, I apologize.

Everyone should want Larry Davis as their boss...there would never be a timetable on anything.

by Unuscione on Jan 26, 2006 4:37 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Frank Who?

Just kidding... BB pulls off another of his classic moves.

"I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care." -Dave Barry

by tmail on Jan 26, 2006 4:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

How does trading Kielty help the A's?

Easy, addition by subtraction. He's a painfully weak bat who's even worse in the field. Matt Watson or Charles Thomas can provide equal value at less than half the cost. Getting rid of Kielty's salary alone would make it worth it, getting anything of worth in return would be icing on the cake.

Payton, on the other hand, is very valuable to have around for this team.

by walk off bunt on Jan 26, 2006 11:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Its now or never

Y'all gotta do it this year, man. I can't wait to see what Zito brings at midseason either. Sit back and watch Billy work.

www.royalsreview.com

by royalsreview on Jan 26, 2006 8:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Big Hurt

I'm a transplanted Chicagoan. Becoming an A's fan but obviously cheered on ChiSox last year. I must say local writers and most fans are ignoring one key fact about Thomas. He's an unbelievable whiner who is fine as long as the team is winning and he's getting his numbers. I read everyone imaginable about the Sox season last year and one thing you don't hear much about is the fact that privately, the team was glad Thomas had very little to do with the team winning it all last year. Believe me, I hope this works out for the A's...but watch out if he and/or the team starts out slow next year. Worse yet, I haven't said anything about the fact that he has broken down continually for the last 3 years.

by peteschwetty on Jan 29, 2006 9:20 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

if the Angels suddenly got Tejada

and Manny Ramirez shouldn't that solidify the A's as wild card in the AL. No Manny in Boston, the Red Sox just another team and definitely not a contender in the AL.

"you just have to focus on the now. What am I going to do today? What am I going to do for the next 30 minutes to get better today?" - Huston Street AN 4-7-05

by brosa49 on Jan 29, 2006 2:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

A history of Oaktown DH's

Maybe no one is still reading this, but with a bit of baseball register here are first years of "old DH's", which are most of the years not DH's by ("the Rage",) Mitchell Page, Troy Neel, Geronimo (remeber "The Chief"?) Berroa, Matt Stairs, Jeremy G and Ruby.

Frank Thomas 2006 age 37: ? (career .308/.429/.567)
Deron Johnson 1973 age 35: .246/.330/.407 (career .244/.311/.420; team .260/.332/.389)
Billy Williams 1975 age 35: .244/.341/.419 (career .290/.361/.492; team .247/.319/.373)
Willie McCovey 1976 age 38: .208/.296/.208 (11 games; career .270/.374/.515; team .246/.321/.361)
Dick Allen 1977 age 35: .240/.330/.351 (career .292/378/.534; team .240/.306/.352)
Willie Horton 1978 age 34: .314/.369/.480 (32 games; career .273/.332/.457; team .245/.303/.351)
Rico Carty 1978 age 38: .277/.368/.560 (41 games; career .299/.369/.464; team .245/.303/.351)
Jeff Burroughs 1982 age 31: .277/.372/.505 (career .261/.355/.439; team .236/.309/.367)
Dave Kingman 1984 age 35: .268/.321/.505 (career .236/.302/.478; team .259/.329/.404)
Reggie Jackson II 1987 age 38: .220/.297/.402 (career .262/.356/.490; team .260/.332/.428)
Don Baylor II 1988 age 36: .220/.332/.326 (career .260/.342/.436; team .263/.336/.399)
Dave Parker 1988 age 36: .257/.314/.406 (career .290/.339/.471; team .263/.336/.399)
Harold Baines 1990 age 31: .266/.381/.415 (32 games career .289/.356/.465; team .254/.336/.391)
Jose Canseco II 1997 age 31: .235/.325/.461 (career .266/.353/.515; team .260/.336/.423)
John Jaha 1999 age 32: .276/.414/.556 (career .263/.369/.465; team .259/.350/.446)
Ron Gant 2001 age 36: .259/.344/.420 (34 games; career .258/.336/.469; team .264/.345/.439)
ages at start of season or time of acquisition

Remember John Jaha? He was by far the most effective pickup during his one healthy year, the only .400 OBP and by far the highest SLG.

The A's started the DH era using one of their resting players (with smaller pitching staffs, there were often quite a few), primarily Billy North and Angel Mangual, neither of which were a power threat, until they picked up 1B Deron Johnson from the Phillies partway through 1973. He hit in line with team and career stats, and like many teams, the A's were probably counting how much they scored compared to having the pitcher bat (other teams were using low-impact "strategies" such as giving AB's to the backup catcher). Don Mincher had told me at a Huntsville game (he was the GM then, when Chavez was there) that Charlie O had offered him the job but he decided to retire after getting that first ring in 1972. Surprisingly, his stats seem to be similar to Johnson's so it might not have been too bad.
I remember thinking how great Billy Williams was going to be, but his two years in green and gold were not much better than Aaron as a Brewer. Willie Mac dropped by late one year trying to prove he was washed up (he went back to the foggy side of the Bay for a nice comeback), then Dick Allen started the next to prove he was toast. A fading Willie Horton followed the next year and caught fire, then was traded to the expansion Blue Jays for the even older Rico Carty, who raked amazingly when healthy, a tiny bright spot in a dismal team.
Youth, pitching and speed were the trademark of the early '80's Billyball teams, but Jeff Burroughs provided some good gruntwork in the middle, followed by three years of "Jaws" theme intros for Kingman, both of whom put up better-than-average power numbers compared to their careers (I think the old Texas stadium was tough on power).
Reggie and Baylor (whom the A's had gotten for Reggie during their first incarnations as '70's A's) hit less than the average team member, but Reggie did sell a lot of cars and got McGwire interested in cars (apparently Canseco already had acquired a taste for speed before meeting Reggie).
Parker did a bit of LF (he was no Cobra by this time in the field) as well as DH, then there was the amazing pickups of Baines and Willie McGee for spare parts that looked like a team to match the best in franchise history, before meeting the Reds in 1990. After Baines' term, the A's didn't use any big-name older power hitters (except a couple of quick visits from Ron Gant) until the Thomas signing.

by Jose Canusee on Jan 30, 2006 2:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs