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Around SBN: Celtics Seething Over Embarrassing Loss

Taking frustration out on another columnist

Well, there isn't much else to say about the A's these days, so I decided to vent a little, based on a friend's stunned reaction to the recent SI article, and an article based out of Chicago, claiming Tadahito Iguchi as the "Runaway Favorite" for the Rookie of the Year Award. I wrote this letter to the Chicago columnist and I'm going to edit it a bit and send it to Sports Illustrated, as well.

Do I really care about the ROY award? No, not really. But it has annoyed me no end that people are claming that Iguchi is the indisputed ROY simply based on the White Sox's record. And because I felt like venting, and maybe starting a discussion other than A's baseball, I thought I'd kick out a diary for AN. :)

Disclaimer: The "New York spotlight" quote was supposed to be ironic.

Star-divide

Dear Patrick,

Just had a chance to read your article on the Chicago White Sox, and while I find it admirable that you are backing this year's Chicago team by highlighting an obvious up-and-coming steady presence on the White Sox in Tadahito Iguchi, I must take umbrage with your word choice in this line of your article.

"They still have the frontrunner for the league's Cy Young Award in Mark Buehrle, and a runaway favorite for Rookie of the Year in Iguchi."

I object to the use of the following words in the sentence: 'runaway' and 'favorite'. Frontrunner, fine. Great rookie, fine. Best rookie in the Central Division. Okay. Runaway favorite last year? Sure, maybe. But by making the blanket statement that Iguchi is the 'runaway favorite' for the 2005 ROY award, you basically imply that he does not have any competition, which I think baseball fans on both coasts might strenuously object to.

Perhaps you caught the recent Sports Illustrated article, which does, in fact, list Iguchi as their current top pick for ROY, which is based on, as they put it, "he's the No. 2 hitter for the best team in baseball". That's nice, but what happens when the White Sox do not have the best record in baseball anymore and he has to be judged on his numbers alone? Would that change your opinion of this 'runaway favorite'?

Using the logic that the record of the team that the rookie plays for--or the city the team plays in--matters in individual player performance, I would think that you would have to take a long look at Robinson Cano for the New York Yankees, who also plays second base, but unlike Iguchi, plays under the spotlight of the tough New York media on a team that is always supposed to win. If Iguchi gets extra credit for being on a good team, then so must Cano for playing in New York. Even giving Iguchi the defensive advantage, their individual offensive numbers break down as follows:

Cano: .275, 8 HRs, 43 RBIs, 1 SB, .304 OBP,  .413 SLG
Iguchi: .278, 12 HRs, 48 RBIs, 14 SB, .343 OBP, .442 SLG

I wouldn't call that matchup exactly a 'runaway', but that's not really my argument, since I would, in fact, pick Iguchi over Cano in ROY balloting. However, there are four other players who I believe are at least, if not more qualified for the Rookie of the Year honors than Iguchi, and will have a good chance for the ROY win, depending on how the last month of the season shakes out.

1) Huston Street - Oakland Athletics
Maybe you haven't had a chance to watch this barely-22-year-old rookie who was pulled pretty much straight out of college to have his turn at the show, who was baptized by fire as the A's closer in late May, following the season-ending surgery of Octavio Dotel. Armed with a wicked arsenal of pitches, and composure well beyond his years, Street has been mentioned in the elite company of Oakland pitchers like Rollie Fingers and Dennis Eckersely, and not with a "someday he'll be as good" mentality, but instead: "right now he is as good". Let's compare Street to other rookie closers. Oh wait, there are none. Let's compare him to closers of the top teams in AL baseball instead, just for fun.

Street: 4-1, 1.31 ERA, 62 IP, 16 SV, 38 H, 2 HR, 19 BB, 61 SO
Rodriguez (Angels): 2-3, 2.96 ERA, 48.2 IP, 29 SV, 32 H, 5 HR, 24 BB, 66 SO
Rivera (Yankees): 6-3, 1.52 ERA, 59.1 IP, 33 SV, 37 H, 2 HR, 11 BB, 64 SO
Hermanson (White Sox): 0-2, 1.76 ERA, 46 IP, 30 SV, 36 H, 4 HR, 14 BB, 26 SO

The numbers speak for themselves. If the Oakland Athletics can break out of the slump they are currently in, and finish strong down the stretch, with Street recording at least five more saves, he should be the clear standout candidate and your 'runaway favorite' for the ROY award.

2) Gustavo Chacin - Toronto Blue Jays
11-6, 3.40 ERA, 153.2 IP, 156 H, 15 HR, 57 BB, 90 SO
He's been a solid member of the Blue Jays rotation, putting up a nice showing in his rookie campaign with a very respectable ERA, and leads the team in innings pitched, while posting eleven wins and fifteen quality starts. Is it harder for a rookie to be a consistent pitcher on a starting rotation than a starting infielder? I don't know, but I'm sure Toronto values him every bit as highly as Chicago does Iguchi, especially after the injury to Halladay.

3) Dan Johnson - Oakland Athletics
.308, 10 HRs, 34 RBIs, 0 SB, .389 OBP, .500 SLG
Called up two months into the 2005 campaign to replace an injured Erubiel Durazo, Dan Johnson has not only brought his high OBP and excellent batting average to the Athletics offense, but he has also been something that they haven't had in recent years; an better-than-average-fielding first baseman. Johnson's rookie numbers match up well with Iguchi's, and although Iguchi has played more games, Johnson certainly can be considered a legitimate candidate.  

4) Nick Swisher - Oakland Athletics
.253, 16 HRs, 60 RBIs, 0 SB, .324 OBP, .466 SLG
Although his batting average is nothing remarkable (albeit fifteen points higher than teammate Bobby Crosby when he won the award last year), he is tied for rookie homeruns, and has been one of the only sources of offensive power in the Athletics power-light lineup. The most amazing statistic is the Athletics' record without him in the lineup: 5-24. If the award is based on 'contribution to a team', then you've got to consider Swisher.

Please don't misunderstand me. Tadahito Iguchi has had an amazing rookie season. The Chicago White Sox organization should be very proud of him and what he has accomplished. But to say that he is a 'runaway favorite' for the rookie of the year award, in large part because he plays on a good team, is not only incorrect, but it's also insulting to the rest of the candidates, who have put up great numbers themselves, and in some cases, in spite of their ballclubs. I think the ROY race is far from over, and it will probably shake out as follows: If Oakland goes on a torrid hot streak and wins a bunch of close games, allowing Street to rack up enough saves to please the voters, he will win it.  If Toronto resurrects its playoff chances with the amazing arm of Chacin backing every fifth start, he'll win it. If the White Sox stop freefalling, then, yes, Iguchi will have a great shot at being ROY. I think Swisher and Johnson are out of the running, simply because of their own teammate. But who are we kidding? Cano plays for the Yankees, in the big scary media town of New York, on a $210 million dollar team that is supposed to win. If the Yankees make up the eight games that separate their record from the White Sox's before the end of the season, I wouldn't be surprised to see Cano's name back at the top of the mix.

And that's the ROY wrap. It will come down to the last month of individual player performances, sadly influenced by overall team performance, and the clear choice, if there is one at all, won't be defined until the end of the season. That's baseball.

Sincerely,

Christy Hofmann
baseballgirl1976@hotmail.com

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very nice
Thats a great, well thought out letter.
Come ON A's!

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 24, 2005 11:08 AM PDT reply actions  

3/4 Athletics
But 3 out of the 4 others she mentions are A's, which will make it very easy for the column's author to dismiss her as biased out of hand. Not that they're not worth considering alongside Cano and Iguchi, but to get a response, maybe some other rookies should be mentioned instead of Chacin and 3 A's.

by hunter on Aug 24, 2005 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

I simply used the top 5 picks...
...in the SI article.

It's not my fault if 3/5 of them were Athletics!

I would have used the top 5, no matter who they were.

Best Coliseum promotion of the year? 2005 Oakland A's baseball.

by baseballgirl on Aug 24, 2005 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

truth be told
The guys you highlighted are probably the best candidates for RoY, but that columnist is probably going to brand you a biased fan and send the letter seaworthy, though I hope s/he doesn't.

by hunter on Aug 24, 2005 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bias
It would really be bias if her e-mail was baseballgirl1976@athleticsnation.com  :)
I'm an A's fan, not a baseball fan.

by sf drift king on Aug 24, 2005 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

actually
I thought she did a great job of highliting Cano over the others. And Chacin. And most of the best rookies are A's anyway
Come ON A's!

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 24, 2005 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well done
stick it to the man!!
President of the Brent Gates Fan Club

by SoCal As Fan on Aug 24, 2005 11:23 AM PDT reply actions  

great job!
Great research, and solid writing without bias. It's not our fault that have have a great farm system.
keep up the splendid work!

by brothersky on Aug 24, 2005 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

sheesh
and you wonder why you are my AN crush
"What I'm trying to do is set our pitching up for five years," said Beane

by Satchmo22 on Aug 24, 2005 11:37 AM PDT reply actions  

Very Nice
Good letter. I don't find Taguchi's season nearly as remarkable as Street's, or as good as Dan Johnson's.

If Street doesn't win, or maybe Chacin, it'll just be more proof that baseball awards pretty much suck.

by H3liCat on Aug 24, 2005 11:37 AM PDT reply actions  

this is a great letter
i don't know if the sportswriters will care, but you really laid into it.  huston street has done miraculous things for a rookie.  his numbers are rediculous.  iguchi is good but should he be rookie of the year?  he certainly has his work cut out for him.  
Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! -- Ken Macha

by burnone on Aug 24, 2005 11:49 AM PDT reply actions  

the other thing about iguchi
he is 30 years old.  i think it is a diservice to the japanese players to even consider them for ROY.  it is saying that japanese leagues are like minor leagues.  i guess you could say that is kinda true, but i think it would honor them more to not give them ROY awards considering they have played for many years in japan.  street is 22 years old.  
Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! -- Ken Macha

by burnone on Aug 24, 2005 11:55 AM PDT reply actions  

the letter
is very clear and well thought out.
Well done...
"You gotta be a man to play baseball for a living, but you gotta have a lot of little boy in you." - Roy Campanella .......... Swisher for ROY 2005!!!!

by rocketgirl on Aug 24, 2005 11:59 AM PDT reply actions  

It's amazing how little love
Joe Blanton gets in these discussions ...

I understand that you didn't make the choice of leaving him out, that you were just using the author's top 5.

I'd definitely consider annointing him our #2 candidate, behind Huston. (DJ's been better, but you have to factor in PT)

You might also add that Huston, Blanton, and DJ have all posted higher VORPs than Tad ...

Good letter.

Monkeyball Note: if the A's postgame radio host was an evil supervillain, his official Evil Supervillain Laugh would be "Buan-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!")

by devo on Aug 24, 2005 12:30 PM PDT reply actions  

is bias
His butt isn't cute enough. But what he lacks in butt cuteness he makes up for in butt size. That has to count for something, no?
No, I do not want to FIRE MACHA NOW, nor do I think Blanton is fat. Now leave me alone.

by pbruins92 on Aug 24, 2005 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

i agree
blanton gets no love, even on AN!
(not this letter, but to the RoY polls we've had on here.)

everybody is looking at stats like W-L and ERA, when his VORP is right up there with the other major RoY candiates.

i'm not saying blanton would be my pick, but he definitely deserves to be in the discussion...

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Aug 24, 2005 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I LOVE cupcakes!
He just wasn't in the top 5 pick!
Best Coliseum promotion of the year? 2005 Oakland A's baseball.

by baseballgirl on Aug 24, 2005 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

i didn't mean you specifically
it just came up in this diary...

"not this letter, but to the RoY polls we've had on here."

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Aug 24, 2005 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Blanton
I think part of it is that he has really picked up steam as the season has gone along. I'm far more impressed with him now than I was a couple of months ago.

I don't think he has a prayer at winning ROY though (not saying he shouldn't, just that he won't)

Come ON A's!

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 24, 2005 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Comparison
era. whip .baa HR InnPi SO BB k/bb
3.40 1.39 .266 15 153.2 90 57 1.58
3.75 1.25 .239 17 148.2 81 53 1.53
3.43 1.17 .261 17 165.1 79 32 2.47

Those are three pretty darn similar lines, if you ask me.

Pitcher a seems to be getting a little lucky to have the lowest era, despite walking the most guys and giving up the most hits.

Pitcher B is fairly stingy with the hits, though his hr and bb rates hurt him a bit.

Pitcher C has an obsecenely low walk rate, but gives up plenty of hits.

All told, it's hard to argue that these guys haven't had very, very comperable seasons ... the result?

Pitcher A is one of the favorites for the ROY, Pitcher C is a contender for the Cy, and almost nobody has heard of Pitcher B.

A: Chacin
B: Blanton
C: Garland

Monkeyball Note: if the A's postgame radio host was an evil supervillain, his official Evil Supervillain Laugh would be "Buan-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!")

by devo on Aug 24, 2005 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

well
we've always known the voting is a bunch of crap, haven't we?
Come ON A's!

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 24, 2005 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

You mean the BBWA
aren't really the most informed decisionmakers around?
Monkeyball Note: if the A's postgame radio host was an evil supervillain, his official Evil Supervillain Laugh would be "Buan-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!")

by devo on Aug 24, 2005 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

devo playing the player A, B, and C game
I used to love when Neyer played that game.  Thanks for doing it here!
Fearing Mecir since 2000.

by salb918 on Aug 24, 2005 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

my pleasure
while I have come to generally find his work rather rudimentary, Neyer is almost solely responsible for my becoming a thoroughly statistically oriented fan.
Monkeyball Note: if the A's postgame radio host was an evil supervillain, his official Evil Supervillain Laugh would be "Buan-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!")

by devo on Aug 24, 2005 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed
What used to be beatifully simply became rudimentary a couple of years ago.  Of course, now that Neyer's an "insider" I don't what his work is like.

Like you, Neyer introduced me to the world of numbers (baseball-speaking).

Fearing Mecir since 2000.

by salb918 on Aug 24, 2005 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

edit
simply = simple.
Fearing Mecir since 2000.

by salb918 on Aug 24, 2005 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately...
The stat that keep Cupcakes from getting a heap of praise from non-A's fans is the one he doesn't have as much control over...

         W-L
Chacin  11-6
Blanton  7-9
Garland 16-7

by calgbear on Aug 24, 2005 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah ... poor cupcakes ...
Monkeyball Note: if the A's postgame radio host was an evil supervillain, his official Evil Supervillain Laugh would be "Buan-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!")

by devo on Aug 24, 2005 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Blants? Who's Blants?
I thought we were talking about Cupcakes ... I'm confused.
Monkeyball Note: if the A's postgame radio host was an evil supervillain, his official Evil Supervillain Laugh would be "Buan-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!")

by devo on Aug 24, 2005 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Blants=Blanton
when he's not Cupcakes. :)

Ohhh BTW, I got in trouble at school today! The first day and I'm already being called into the office! Booo.

by GreenNGoldGirl on Aug 24, 2005 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

does your school have a
no talking about huston street's ass policy?
If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Aug 24, 2005 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

HEY !
we made the same joke
No, I do not want to FIRE MACHA NOW, nor do I think Blanton is fat. Now leave me alone.

by pbruins92 on Aug 24, 2005 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

for what?
talking to much about Huston's ass?
No, I do not want to FIRE MACHA NOW, nor do I think Blanton is fat. Now leave me alone.

by pbruins92 on Aug 24, 2005 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow.
Both of you posted the same thing. I think people are getting too much into my mind!!!!

But alas, no. Huston's ass is for French, and I don;t have that 'till tomorrow.

I had a dress code violation. Bull crap.

by GreenNGoldGirl on Aug 24, 2005 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

So you can't
go to school wearing highsocks and baseball pants? :)
No, I do not want to FIRE MACHA NOW, nor do I think Blanton is fat. Now leave me alone.

by pbruins92 on Aug 24, 2005 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've tried that. :)
They have no problem with that. It's the weird looks people give me. (Like at the Coliseum. I swear, people give me the weirdest looks. They look me up and down and think 'What a freak'... that's not cool.)

Mini skirt and halter top. I got in trouble for the halter top. :P

by GreenNGoldGirl on Aug 24, 2005 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

ahh...
they do that to the girls at my school to. It makes us boys sad, as do the New England winters.
;)
No, I do not want to FIRE MACHA NOW, nor do I think Blanton is fat. Now leave me alone.

by pbruins92 on Aug 24, 2005 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

It makes me sad.
I looked hot. :( Well, that's what my friends say, and they're my friends.

The administration is out to get everyone. EVERYONE.

by GreenNGoldGirl on Aug 24, 2005 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was gorgeous!
It was brown with gold accents, tighter around the... yeah, that, and looser around the midsection. Worse thing of all was that they didn't give it back. Losers. I had to walk around with an ugly mustard yellow shirt from 2001 with my skirt and brown and gold flip flops. DID NOT MATCH.

That put a Sour Punch baby on my whole day.

by GreenNGoldGirl on Aug 24, 2005 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm sure it was ...
stupid school, destroying personal expression ...
Monkeyball Note: if the A's postgame radio host was an evil supervillain, his official Evil Supervillain Laugh would be "Buan-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!")

by devo on Aug 24, 2005 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm jealous
My secondary nickname ("Icin' Joe Blanton") never really caught on.
It's tough out there, Pootie. You got drugs ... crime ... gorillas ...

by monkeyball on Aug 26, 2005 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

interesting comparison
If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Aug 24, 2005 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gomes should be in this discussion
HE is now the leading HR man among rookies, no longer is Swish.  However, his having less PT will hurt him.
The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.

by JJ on Aug 24, 2005 1:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Next time
take your frustrations out on Carlos Pena.  That should help the A's.
Fearing Mecir since 2000.

by salb918 on Aug 24, 2005 1:09 PM PDT reply actions  

(by the way,
very comprehensive letter).
Fearing Mecir since 2000.

by salb918 on Aug 24, 2005 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great letter
With Eric Chavez batting, Jason Kendall scores on defensive indifference.

by matthias on Aug 24, 2005 1:33 PM PDT reply actions  

You left off the P.S.
P.S. Do you like apples? 'Cause you just got bitch-slapped by a chick who knows your job better than you do. How do you like them apples?
"I made a game effort to argue but two things were against me: the umpires and the rules." - Hall of Fame Manager Leo Durocher

by McFood on Aug 24, 2005 2:58 PM PDT reply actions  

Haha....great letter
Very well thought out and presented.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Aug 24, 2005 3:13 PM PDT reply actions  

Outstanding.
That's pretty much all I have to say. :)
AN Member Location Surveys: Results | Take part

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Aug 24, 2005 3:51 PM PDT reply actions  

Good letter.
Skillfully presented.
Royale with cheese.

by ak_A on Aug 24, 2005 7:16 PM PDT reply actions  

good stuff
i second previously expressed sentiments about hoping that the writer takes you seriously even though most of the guys you discuss are a's players. if you haven't already sent the letter, maybe clarify where you got the names?

but yeah, i also agree with your points ;-) it's been really bugging me how people only look at the rookies on the best teams.

oh yeah, and in terms of other rookie closers - i know he's not in the AL, but chad cordero of the nationals is awesome.

"...the plate won't move. The mound is going to feel the same. The strike zone, with slight variations, is going to be right where it has always been." -Huston

by sabriel on Aug 24, 2005 8:54 PM PDT reply actions  

Cordero has been lights out
but he's in his second year.  unless you were saying first-time closers rather than rookies who are closers.  Either way both Street and Chad have been amazing.
"The difference between Jose Canseco and Kobe Bryant is that Kobe doesn't believe in giving his teammates any shots." -Jay Leno

by vignette17 on Aug 25, 2005 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

is he really?
huh, i thought he was a rookie. my bad.
"...the plate won't move. The mound is going to feel the same. The strike zone, with slight variations, is going to be right where it has always been." -Huston

by sabriel on Aug 25, 2005 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

good letter
Although it would probably help the cause by not mentioning three A's, as it will just allow whoever reads the letter to claim favoratism.
Maybe something i haven't even heard of before...

by slapnuts on Aug 25, 2005 12:22 AM PDT reply actions  

Excellent!
Very strong, civilized and well-argued!
I move that Section 215 be designated a Wave Free Zone...

by Poppy on Aug 25, 2005 3:53 PM PDT reply actions  

One more item....
Baseball girl, if I ever get divorced.....

But seriously, one more argument.  If the team the ROY is on matters, than shouldn't the team with the largest Rookie contigent, (That oh by the way is leading its division) count more heavily than just the team with the best record?  I mean if we look at rookie contributions, than ROY balloting (IMHO) should focus on which teams success has been most due to rookie contributions.  In which case the ROY would HAVE to come from Oakland.  This is the same logic that won Miggy the MVP over A-Rod.

In which case, ROY should look like this:

  1. Street
  2. Blanton
  3. Johnson
  4. Swisher
  5. Yabu (!!!)
"This is Rickey, calling on behalf of Rickey" Rickey Henderson to Padres GM Kevin Towers

by 510inDenver on Aug 30, 2005 4:32 PM PDT reply actions  

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