Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Are The Orioles Bad Or Unlucky With Their Young Pitching?

Furious Phone Calls

The speculation that Daric Barton is arriving soon is growing.  So, I've spent the past hour or so trying to reach anyone to talk about it.

Needless to say, I've figured out why Barton isn't in the lineup tonight.  The A's reportedly want to give Barton a couple of nights off to make sure he is well-rested.  Well-rested for what, you ask?  That's open to speculation because I never got a definite answer.  But I would guess that it means that Daric could be joining the A's soon for the stretch run.  He may still be a September call-up, but I also know that the team has been trying to work him in the outfield to get him used to that position.

Barton would like to both play in the field and bat, but if it means he gets a shot at DH, he'd do it in a heartbeat.  Regardless, this team could use an infusion of something...and soon.

As for the game tonight, the A's offense just looks like it has completely run out of energy.  The 0-8 at the top of the lineup is dreadful.  Our pitching continues to be a strength, even with former Athletic Carlos Pena coming back to haunt the team.

Even though the present is rough, the very near future could be very interesting.  Stay tuned.

Comment 179 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

bad news everywhere tonight
Minnesota breaks up garcia's no-hitter and wins it in the 8th;

The Skanks rally in the 9th to win;

The Indians win a close one;

The Angels almost blow a game to Miguel Tejada and the Orioles but they hang on.

And our boys are moribund in Motown.

But.....

Daric barton and kevin Mellilo could be on the way.

If so, all I can say is that Billy Beane has the heart of a lion and he's as fierce.

No quit in him-- he knows all his current options are unsatisfactory so he's rolling the proverbial dice. Go get 'em, Billy!

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Aug 23, 2005 7:30 PM PDT reply actions  

I blame this guy!


Taken from Camden Yards tonight during the Orioles' loss to the Angels

Typical Byrnes tonight. 3-4 with an error in the outfield! And Tejada's 2 outs, bottom of the 9th grand slam was awesome, but too little too late!

by louismg on Aug 23, 2005 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Argggh devil devil
Byrnescurse strykes again!!!  :-<
"Soon, everyone will be using monkeyball quotes for their tag lines! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!" -- monkeyball

by oblique on Aug 23, 2005 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I swear I had the only A's cap in the stadium
You should have heard the fans razz Byrnes after his error. "Hey - put your glove on next time!", "You suck!", etc. I found the "You suck" call to be fairly insightful and unique in its variety.

Each of the Baltimore fans I talked to didn't seem interested in returning Tejada to the A's. Can't figure that one out.

by louismg on Aug 23, 2005 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

rich
Royale with cheese.

by ak_A on Aug 23, 2005 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Question
If we call up Barton after roster's expand, do we have the roster setup to jigger him into the playoffs (should we make it that far) a la K-Rod 2002?
Fearing Mecir since 2000.

by salb918 on Aug 23, 2005 7:32 PM PDT reply actions  

Depends
Eligibility for the playoffs is normally set by being on the roster as of Aug. 31.  However, if a player is on the disabled list when the playoffs start they can be replaced.  I believe this is how K-Rod was able to be placed on the playoff roster in 2002.

by IndianaAsfan on Aug 24, 2005 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Melillo enters game as PH in Midland
Walks in his plate appearance, comes around to score. Still no sign of Barton....

by NP15 on Aug 23, 2005 7:33 PM PDT reply actions  

Umm, Blez?
Dude, Blez, normally your writing is some of the best available on the internet -- clear, incisive and just generally damn good. But tonight's piece smacks of frustration and being rushed:

"Needless to say, I've figured out why Barton isn't in the lineup tonight."

What exactly does this mean? Did you dream up the explanation yourself that he needs rest for a September call-up, or were you told this by one of your "contacts" (Urban, Slusser, BB himself)? So I wouldn't really call that "needless to say" seeing as how confused I am.

"Barton isn't a big fan of being a DH, but if it means he gets a shot, I'm sure he'd do it in a heartbeat."

Since when are we letting players decide which position their future is at? Barton may not like to DH, but he has no plus defensive position. As I noted in blee1134's diary, it could be that the A's intentionally put him at DH as it would keep his long-term cost down in arbitration and beyond -- just as we're currently doing with Justin Duchscherer (no starts, few saves = low cost).

Call up Barton right now and let him drive a couple Bonderman fastballs into the left-centerfield gap tomorrow.

by NP15 on Aug 23, 2005 7:41 PM PDT reply actions  

Ok
Thanks for the clarification, I couldn't tell whether it was your conjecture or actually came from someone.

That said, unless it's from BB himself, I think it sounds like a cop-out answer from someone who didn't really know what was going on ("Oh, Barton's not in the line-up tonight? Yeah, that's because I heard they're resting him." Umm... so the reason he's out of the line-up is because they're resting him?? Genius!! Why didn't I think of that?)

by NP15 on Aug 23, 2005 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, Barton was told
that he's being rested and wasn't really told why.  The rest is me speculating why.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Aug 23, 2005 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is the problem
Kendall wants to lead off, so he leads off, Crosby wants to bat 3rd so he bats 3rd.  Despite overwhelming evidence that both are unsuited for those roles, they continue to get run out there in those positions.  I don't know if it is true or not but I heard Chavez doesn't like to bat cleanup, but apparently Crosby has more say in these matters.  

by china bob on Aug 23, 2005 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

kendall says he wanted to bat 2nd
at the beginning of the year.  that is why he was not leading off earlier this season
Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! -- Ken Macha

by burnone on Aug 24, 2005 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

[I wouldn't be surprised
if the source was Barton himself.]
"I have seven forks. I need one for eating. The others I'm going to stick in the Giants, because they're done." - Random guy on BART

by Melody on Aug 23, 2005 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Stop the stupid rumors!!!
Baseball Players take days off!!! They may and should move to sacramento soon, likely in time for the Playoffs just to get them some more AB's.
Oakland is not in the near future.

Sorry to be pissy I will no longer respond to these ridiculous rumors.

Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Aug 23, 2005 7:51 PM PDT reply actions  

Wow..angry much?
Jeez....it's speculation that has been a topic of discission all over this site....Relax.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Aug 23, 2005 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

They had an off day yesterday
You have to admit with all of the talk it would be a huge coincidence that he is going to get some rest.  he missed a lot of game with appendicitis so it is not like he is worn down right now.

by DKNJ on Aug 23, 2005 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nova
No one is forcing you to read the site.  Go somewhere else if you don't like what you read here.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Aug 23, 2005 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

haha..
Better said than mine. :-)
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Aug 23, 2005 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Since it hasn't been said
and I think you need to hear it: "Thanks, Blez."  Even if I could burn up the phone lines trying to figure out what's going on, I don't think I'd have the patience.

Thanks for trying to find out what's going on as the plot thickens...

Fearing Mecir since 2000.

by salb918 on Aug 23, 2005 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for saying that Sal
I appreciate the kind words.  I had a really hard time reaching anyone.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Aug 23, 2005 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Word
I'm definitely grateful to be given an insider's look, especially something like this when we all need a pick me up.

So thanks Blez.  It is indeed very telling to know that Barton was kept out multiple days so he'd be well rested.

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Aug 24, 2005 1:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

i agree
thank you Blez.  for taking the time to investigate.  
Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! -- Ken Macha

by burnone on Aug 24, 2005 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Stupid rumors are stupid rumors
IF you do not like me pointing that out ban me!!!

IF I see them I will point them out.

Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Aug 23, 2005 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey bud
Just trying to put two and two together here.

And don't call them ridiculous rumors. If anything, you are being ridiculously illogical. Someone hitting for a .950 OPS in Midland with that type of BB:K ratio is going to be able to hit for an .800-.825 OPS in the major leagues right now. It's still baseball, it's the same game. We have years and years of historical data that allow us to forecast hitters' performance in the major leagues based on results in the minors, right down to the park factors and level of pitching for a league in a particular year. These things are remarkably consistent and have been analyzed going back 50+ years.

Now, that .800 OPS estimate is just a best guess, an expected value. Certainly, with someone who's just barely 20 years old, there will be more variance to the estimate -- but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't give him a shot right now.

by NP15 on Aug 23, 2005 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess I will not be proven right unitl
May of 2006 when Barton is still in the Minors.
He will not be called up this year and he will not start 2006 in the majors!!!!!
Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Aug 23, 2005 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

.825 OBS?
To assume a kid currently in AA (The league, not the 12 step program) is going to put an OBS that would place him roughly in the top 50 in all MLB is a bold statement. Playing Corpus Christi in August isn't exactly the same thing as Boston in September.

by Little Lebowski Urban Achievers on Aug 23, 2005 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

i was at the game tonight
and i saw this one coming...detroit is very hot right now (especially since pena feels he has something to prove...again)  and oakland is struggling to score runs.  unfortunately for oakland, bondo is pitching tomorrow and we all know how he pitches against the A's.  then on thursday there will be what i think will be a great match up, harden and maroth (a lefty... and coming off a good outing against boston last wednesday).  i think harden is going to tame the tigers on thursday so tomorrow nights' game could decide the series...

at the game tonight tho... i was fortunate enough to meet Kotsay and Sarloos during BP and they were really nice!  and i almost caught pena's first homer in the 4th...

but the FUNNIEST part of the night was when swisher went to go visit one of his friends and his kid on the right field line and when people started running over to get his autograph he basically ran away and said to us all:

 "Sorry, I have to go take a drug test."

that might have been the funniest thing ive heard in a while, and even tho he didnt sign for us...it made me laugh and made the A's loss a little easier to take.

Living in the mitten is second best to being Canadian...

Lets go GVSU!

by Alisa on Aug 23, 2005 7:53 PM PDT reply actions  

Haha....He wasnt lying either.
8 Athletics got drug tested before the game tonight.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Aug 23, 2005 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

holy crap
i totally thought he was joking...that is funny

he was messing around with everyone tonight...especially the fans in the front row in right field -- they were getting on him about not giving them the ball he was warming up with...

im hoping i can sneak down to those seats tomorrow or thursday... ;)

Living in the mitten is second best to being Canadian...

Lets go GVSU!

by Alisa on Aug 23, 2005 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh crap...
8 players got tested???? uh oh...i have a bad feeling they're gonna find kendall's been juicing...
"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Aug 23, 2005 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Where do you think all his power is coming from?
Otherwise, he'd be hitting the ball negative forward.

by NP15 on Aug 23, 2005 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt it
We'll know he's juicing when his infield popouts become outfield popouts.
Fearing Mecir since 2000.

by salb918 on Aug 23, 2005 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

hopefully...
they packed their "Wizzinators"
Living in the mitten is second best to being Canadian...

Lets go GVSU!

by Alisa on Aug 23, 2005 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Juiced
If he's juiced, just think of the stolen bases against him without it. He'd be throwing to 2nd and the runner is already sliding into 3rd.
Sniff, Sniff. "Who Fongpay?"

by Fongpay on Aug 23, 2005 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

silver linings
  1. No one was killed in the production of that puke-fest.
  2. If Haren could take back one pitch, then that would have been a very well pitched game. Still would have lost, of course.
  3. Reinforcements on the way?  The whole team looks depressed.
  4. Flowers are pretty.
  5. Sorry, I got nuthin.

by Apricot on Aug 23, 2005 8:38 PM PDT reply actions  

Check your email
I sent you a question about how to get the Red Meat comic screenshot posted.

10Q

"I made a game effort to argue but two things were against me: the umpires and the rules." - Hall of Fame Manager Leo Durocher

by McFood on Aug 23, 2005 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

brute force, my friend
I grabbed a screenshot of the browser page, then I posted it to my personal web site, then I posted an img link to it...

by Apricot on Aug 23, 2005 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's not brute force...
that's chicanery of the highest order. I'll send you mine to post, if you don't mind, since I don't have a website. But I'll do it tomorrow. Must get the kids to bed now!
"I made a game effort to argue but two things were against me: the umpires and the rules." - Hall of Fame Manager Leo Durocher

by McFood on Aug 23, 2005 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Red Meat?
What does Milkman Dan have to do with Barton?

hmm.

http://www.aslegacy.blogspot.com

by Genaro on Aug 23, 2005 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

we are only
3.5 games behind the angels.  As I recall they came back from a bigger lead with about this much time to go last year.  Why can't we do the same.  I AM AN OPTIMIST!!!!!!!!
Kendall Haiku by FormerHuntsvilleStar, " Ball in hand, a leap,--- a veteran catcher blocks--- and secures a win"

by Athletics fan and runner on Aug 24, 2005 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Macha Comments on September Callups
From: http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050823&content_id=1180817& ;vkey=news_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak

Callup talk: Macha said he hasn't discussed September callups with general manager Billy Beane, but he does have a few ideas for augmenting the roster when it becomes expandable.

Right-hander Juan Cruz, who was 4-1 with a 2.81 ERA as a starter for Triple-A Sacramento through Monday, was mentioned, as was outfielder Charles Thomas, who, Macha said, "could contribute with his [speed] and defense in the outfield."

Utilityman Jermaine Clark, one of the fastest players on the River Cats, is also an option. Clark can play all three outfield positions and three infield positions.

"He'd be a nice guy to stick in there, too," Macha said.

Macha added that he'd like to see the A's bring up another catcher, to give him the flexibility to use Jason Kendall and Adam Melhuse in the lineup at the same time more often, but he didn't mention anyone by name. Sacramento's catchers are John Baker, who was batting .233 in 326 at-bats through Monday, and Tom Gregorio, a .320 hitter in 75 at-bats.

Another option at catcher could be Alberto Castillo, who was signed to a Minor League contract Monday night. Castillo is a .222 career hitter who has played for the Mets, Yankees, Cardinals, Giants and Royals. Castillo appeared in 34 games for Kansas City this season before being released Aug. 5.

by louismg on Aug 23, 2005 8:40 PM PDT reply actions  

It shows you how stupid Macha is
He can't play Melhuse and Kendall at the same time because what if one gets hurt?  So you lose a DH, so what?  What the hell has our DH done this year anyway, and if it is late in the game, there is such a thing as a pinch hitter, which we also don't have but never mind that.  The guy has all the imagination of a toad.

by china bob on Aug 23, 2005 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Macha is not stupid
The main problem with DHing Melhuse is you can't pinch hit for him, because then you have nobody left to catch at all if Kendall gets hurt. So he starts against a righty, and when the left handed relievr comes in you're stuck with him.

And there's one other small problem with Melhuse: he's not very good. His OPS this season is .662, and his career OPS is .728. That is not every day DH material. And people say Hatteberg doesn't deserve the job?

Since the other options at DH aren't fantastic either, I'm all in favor of giving Melhuse a chance once in a while to keep his swing together. But he's hardly the solution to our DH problem.

With Eric Chavez batting, Jason Kendall scores on defensive indifference.

by matthias on Aug 23, 2005 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

finally
some logical thinking.  melhuse is not good.  he has hit some random clutch hits and has some power.  outside of that...???
Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! -- Ken Macha

by burnone on Aug 24, 2005 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's interesting that when the game is on,
a whole different genre of posters--many of whom never or rarely post in diaries prior to or after games--engage in some of the most ludicrous commentary imaginable. The A's are in a teamwide batting slump and they apparently must find scapegoats upon whom to afix blame. The two most convenient suspects are Ken Macha and Jason Kendall.

Somehow, they must feel Macha either doesn't deserve credit for steering a young, once last place team back into contention. Or they can't appreciate the job Macha did to enable the team to go 40-50; correspondingly, Macha--in their cranium-challenged brains--must be strung up for this recent downturn.

And, of course, a position player must also be singled out. In May, it was Chavvy. Now it's Kendall. Pray tell, who--along with with Curt Young--took the two young starters Haren and Blanton, and guided them to remarkable achievements this early in their career? And who, along with Young, helped turn Barry Zito's career around? Who helped make Kirk Saarloos one of baseball's best 5th starter? Who turned 22 year old Huston Street into a possible Rookie of the Year and a possible premier closer? Etc., etc.

No, as in politics when people project their own sense of futility in life onto someone else, in baseball too scapegoats must be found. Alas, analysis and logic require too many neurons...  

by reztips on Aug 23, 2005 8:48 PM PDT reply actions  

Disagreement
I don't want to ruffle feathers, because Reztips I always like your posts, and Blez I respect your site and everything on it.  But I see no reason to applaud this post.  It makes negative generalizations about critics of Macha and Kendall without any examples.  If any poster has evidence for debate about player performance, and there certainly seems to be plenty of late, then let's hear it.

If you just don't like hearing the same critiques over and over again, or if you think they're overly biased or substantively lacking, then why not just point it out on those specific diaries?  Or say so without so much judgement.  I know I've made plenty of statistics-based critiques of Kendall.  I think they've been valid.  And no, I don't post during or after every game.  If some posts seemed like political scapegoating to you I doubt they were intended that way.  I also didn't think this site was built on the tenets of "1984".

So to chalk all of the cynicism swirling around of late up to "a whole different genre of posters" who "project their own sense of futility in life onto someone else", and who lack the neurons for "analysis and logic" alienates those posters who don't feel like established "regulars" of this site, but still might have something to contribute.  Thoughtful questioning of the "status quo" is a unique part of this site that is lacking in other media outlets.

Maybe you didn't mean to be that incendiary.  But mass-labeling to anyone as having "cranium-challenged brains", whether it's toward a group or an individual seems contrary to the AN community guidelines.  And I don't think your post warrants approval from our administrator.  

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Aug 24, 2005 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rez....
I really liked this post.....Very well thought out and said.  
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Aug 23, 2005 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

After reading that,
I stopped heating my pot of tar in the yard, put the feather pillows away, put the rail back on the fence, called my friends to say I never mind about the pitchforks and torches, and took the money back from neighbor kid I hired to paint that huge poster about firing someone.
Royale with cheese.

by ak_A on Aug 23, 2005 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whoa, before you go off the philosophical deep-end
you should realize that Macha did not have that much of an impact that you think.

Crosby came back and was instantly inserted into the third spot, deplacing Chavez, whom Macha said he would NOT move. According to Ken, he didn't "see how it(moving players in a lineup) could make a difference."

Now?

"Dan Johnson has kind of slid up into the fifth spot and (Scott) Hatteberg moved down a little bit. We have done a little tinkering here and there."

To say Macha had a great impact on this team is a slap in the face to what  Chavez, Crosby, and Johnson did.

And as for Kendall? Yeah, his salary went UP this year and his performance went DOWN. Oh, he's also the top moneymaker on this team for 05.

Some Scapegoat he is. For shame for some fans to expect him to perform to his normal levels.

http://www.aslegacy.blogspot.com

by Genaro on Aug 23, 2005 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fan's reactions...
while I understand that all the "Kendall and Macha are bums" talk is a little over the top I do think it has some merit.

First though, it is the nature of the fan to react harshly towards players or persons (see Bartman) it perceives as the downfall of their teams. I think it is a bit elitist to simply disregard what they are yelling about without at least 1. understanding that the gripes will be exaggerated during times like these and 2. trying to logically discredit what they are saying.

Now I'm not saying you haven't logically challenged their reasonings behind the A's downfall, but I also think we need to let the venting take place as if we are NOT robots.

"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on Aug 23, 2005 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes
Being a fan means being extreme in one's reactions. I'll let Billy Beane and Ken Macha do the patient-and-objective thing. It's their job. My job is to do the "Jason Kendall is a superhero when he makes a great game-winning play against the Rangers or Angels but a bum when the A's are in a slump and he's not hitting" thing.

Let's not confuse the roles.

With Eric Chavez batting, Jason Kendall scores on defensive indifference.

by matthias on Aug 23, 2005 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree
The perogative of the fan is to vent their excitement, positive or negative.

Think about playing against your friends and or family in a game.  "You're a bum!" during the game, but afterwards, it's only a game.

Since as fans we suffer no monetary consequence (gamblers excluded... their own hell) why not rise and fall with  the tides and fortunes?

by Ducts on the Pawn on Aug 23, 2005 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

The biggest sin . . . .
a fan can commit is indifference.  Ask anyone in management (from team manager to GM to team president all the way up to the Commish) what their greatest fear is and they'll say it's when fans stop caring.  

by camperdog on Aug 23, 2005 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

See:
National Hockey League fans south of Detroit.

Or at least that's what we could see this fall.

AN Member Location Surveys: Results | Take part

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Aug 24, 2005 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not Macha, that's for sure
Who runs Kendall out every day as a lead off hitter, a guy batting .261, doesn't walk, doesn't run?.  He is a 9th place hitter, simple and true.  Who runs Crosby out in the 3rd spot batting .100 RISP, with no  power, high K's, few walks?  Since when does a manager take credit for a pitching coach?  I don't remember anyone blaming Macha last year for Mulders problems, save wondering why he didn't rest him which is his perogative.

by china bob on Aug 23, 2005 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

re
so what would your lineup be?
Come ON A's!

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 23, 2005 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

great post rez
I am glad that I read it.
Kendall Haiku by FormerHuntsvilleStar, " Ball in hand, a leap,--- a veteran catcher blocks--- and secures a win"

by Athletics fan and runner on Aug 24, 2005 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

AthleticsNation has gone back
to a state of May.

At the same time, an Orange level alert.

So Watch out!!

by Hit4TheCycle on Aug 23, 2005 8:52 PM PDT reply actions  

Well where is all the love for Macha?
Everyone loved him a month ago because he turned the season around. With Credit comes Blaime.

I really think he is just a lump who is nither responsible for wins or loses and will be replaced by a cheaper Manager next season.

Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Aug 23, 2005 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey, check Macha
for a pulse!!! Is he watching the same game the rest of us are?  Offense is sputtering, MIX UP THE LINEUP!!!!

by AlBowe on Aug 23, 2005 9:12 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree, change something
Now Macha is afraid that changing the lineup will show a lack of patience.

Nothing is constant, and everyone says the MLB game is a "game of adjustments".  So why not be constantly adjusting?  If you tell the players in March "I'll be moving people around if we win ten in a row, and I'll be moving people up and down if we lose eight in a row, or go .500 for 20 games..." then you don't have to show a change in philosophy.

by Ducts on the Pawn on Aug 23, 2005 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Macha's comments on the callups
are really interesting. I wonder why he wouldn't have mentioned Barton? It's not like it's necessary to hide their plans. If they were considering it, why not mention it?

Of course I could be reading entirely too much into this.

by nycfan @ Athletics Nation on Aug 23, 2005 9:17 PM PDT reply actions  

Macha says no Barton.
According to Macha, Daric Barton won't be called up from Double-A Midland when rosters expand. He's only 20 and there's too big a gap between Double-A pitching and the big leagues.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2005/08/24/ASREPORT.TMP&type=as

"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Aug 23, 2005 9:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Was just about to post this!
Thanks, Sharon.
Street is a friggin physical marvel... -Mychael Urban

by rookieoftheyear on Aug 23, 2005 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Revenge of the castoffs
Carlos Pena... darn it all! Last I heard of him he was down in the minors -- I actually took a moment to feel bad for him -- and today I tune in to see him hitting homeruns against my favorite pitcher du jour, Danny Haren.

Did anyone else notice that huge chip on Pena's shoulder? Remember 2002 and the Carlos Pena Fan Club sign? I think it was in the right field bleachers? Was it 2002? Pena was roommates for all of 2 months with Chavy, Mulder, Ellis and Venafro in the fabled Lafayette house. Time flies...

There's something about players who get traded and play against the team that traded them -- they have Something To Prove. Pena with his 2 homers, mutter, mutter. What will Bonderman inflict on us tomorrow?

I have faith.

by BillybUcko on Aug 23, 2005 9:20 PM PDT reply actions  

Since we are scoring 1 run a game
against mediocre pitchers, the worst that can happen is he shuts us out, everyone else does, why not him?  But don't worry, we will trot out Kendall leading off, Crosby batting 3rd, and Melhuse sitting the bench.  Don't get me wrong I don't think Melhuse is a savior, he is not, just an average ball player but considering the options, the best we have.

by china bob on Aug 23, 2005 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

okay
  1. what can you show me that says Melhuse playing every day is better than Kendall. Especially considering that every A's pitcher (Street in particular) credits Kendall with their success
  2. Who do YOU put in the three spot and why? Note that Crosby is one of the only A's players who has hit consistently over the last week.
  3. We all know this lineup leaves quite a bit to be desired. So what would you do that is better than what Ken Macha is doing right now?
Come ON A's!

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 23, 2005 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Macha did mention Barton
to Susan Slusser apparently:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2005/08/24/ASREPORT.TMP&type=as

"According to Macha, Daric Barton won't be called up from Double-A Midland when rosters expand. He's only 20 and there's too big a gap between Double-A pitching and the big leagues."

Of course, since the mlb.com article says Macha hasn't even discussed callups with Beane, how can he be sure?

With Eric Chavez batting, Jason Kendall scores on defensive indifference.

by matthias on Aug 23, 2005 9:20 PM PDT reply actions  

Thank you Sharon
This past week has been exhausting to see normally intelligent fans rumor monguring over the ludicrous. I hope this puts and end to it.
Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Aug 23, 2005 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

No thanks needed.
All I did was post what Slusser mentioned in her notes.

Frankly, I enjoy the discussion going on about Barton. I find none of it exhausting, and I think it's rather interesting.

In the original game thread, I was the first one to bring up Barton's absence in the lineup and jokingly mentioned the idea that he may be called up.

So maybe now, in your frustration with this rumor and my possible involvement in it, that "thank you" is shrinking.

"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Aug 23, 2005 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

All you need to know about Macha
we have heard today, call up "Thomas because he has speed and can play defense" and
Barton is only 20, and double A is easier than the majors.  Really??? Gee, I didn't know that.
As I understand Macha, Thomas can steal first which will help us generate runs.  And Florida has to sit down Cabrera because he is too young to hit major league pitching.  Makes sense to me.
Let me see, Kaline was 19,. Mantle was 20 when they got called up, thank God  their manager wasn't Macha.

by china bob on Aug 23, 2005 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

A Manager Must Be A Diplomat
Until Macha gets definitive word from BB that Barton will be called up, it is appropriate that he act diplomatically and say the right things. Most managers and players deflect direct comments by saying the likes of "We have to play it one game at a time." Etc. Indeed, if Barton is not called up, it would doubtless be just for the reason Macha articulated...

To those who cite the return of Crosby and the call up of DJ for the A's going on their incredible run after the May debacle, sure those players and others should get credit. But many a young team, faced with early season loses, has run up the white flag and written off the season. It takes a patient and exceptional leadership of young men to keep their "daubers" up and Macha did an extraordinary job in doing just that...

by reztips on Aug 23, 2005 9:31 PM PDT reply actions  

Macha has done a terrific job this year
There are things about any manager that one can quibble with, but Macha's done about as well as anyone could with this team
Come ON A's!

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 23, 2005 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

You know how close
Terrific and Terrible are?

It's quite amazing actually.

by Hit4TheCycle on Aug 23, 2005 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

How about recognizing that
kendall is not a leadoff hitter, and that it was a mistake to put Crosby at the #3 hole? Look, when it was done I agreed with it, but after 2 months or however long it has been it is just as obvious it was a mistake, he is not ready, it is simple.  My concern is that now this lineup is set in stone for next year with the same inherent problems.  Crosby thinks he is a 3, and Kendall thinks he is a leadoff hitter.  I am not even sure about Kotsay as a 2, but I think we have little choice unless he went back to leading off which in my mind is as good as Kendall, not great, but just as good.  Wait a minute, Macha wants Thomas up here because he is fast, that migth work, he can steal first.

by china bob on Aug 23, 2005 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

you know
its all well and good to say its bad to keep these guys there, but are you going to offer your opinion on what he should do differently?
Come ON A's!

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 23, 2005 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Easy
Bat Kendall 7th.  Ellis leadoff. Crosby 8th. Kotsay 2nd.  Chavvy 5th.

by Ducts on the Pawn on Aug 23, 2005 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

and Haren as the DH? ;)
"I have seven forks. I need one for eating. The others I'm going to stick in the Giants, because they're done." - Random guy on BART

by Melody on Aug 23, 2005 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bleachers...
can somebody tell me why the Left Field Bleacher seats are cheaper than the levels above and farther behind them? Are they bench style seats? Standing room? I don't understand how seats right up against the field are cheaper than the ones why up top.
"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on Aug 23, 2005 9:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Shh...
It's the Coliseum's best kept secret. They're cheap because the bleachers have a bad rep. Or maybe their cheap because they tradtionally are, hence the term Bleacher Bums.

Maybe it's just a matter of personal taste, I dunno. In some parts of the third deck you get a pretty nice bird's eye view. of the action. But once you move past the infield, the seats = major suckage. Actually I'd like to know the answer to this question too, why ARE bleacher tickets so reasonably priced, and who in their right minds would want to sit in 330?!

"I have seven forks. I need one for eating. The others I'm going to stick in the Giants, because they're done." - Random guy on BART

by Melody on Aug 23, 2005 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

re
Bleacher seats are actual seats. I believe they're cheaper because you can't see the last 10 feet or so of the field.
http://as-future.blogspot.com/

by blee1134 on Aug 23, 2005 9:46 PM PDT reply actions  

That game went
By fast, almost 2 hours and 20 minutes or something, damn Pena why does trade bait always do well against the A's, does Saarloos pitch this next game because if he does you guys know how horrible he is at night.
You may have the greatest bunch of individual stars in the world, but if they don't play together, the club wont be worth a dime.-Babe Ruth

by doublehustle22 on Aug 23, 2005 9:55 PM PDT reply actions  

nice
Seeing that Daric Barton could be called up is the best news of the night.  Rumor or fact I dont care.    

by pickinmachine on Aug 23, 2005 10:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Let me add my thanks, Blez
for doing the legwork, as always.  I look forward to Billy's next move, whether it's bringing Barton up or otherwise; until then, I'll root for the team to rise from this malaise.

I'm glad I have AN to turn to whether the A's are soaring or scraping.

by Ray of Lite on Aug 23, 2005 10:16 PM PDT reply actions  

Freddie
Why would we ever call up Charles Thomas? He's batting 249 at sacramento. Why not give Freddie Bynum a chance to prove himself. Thomas already had a chance and never filled his expectations. If we wanted speed, Freddie will bring it.

by JaKoPo on Aug 23, 2005 10:26 PM PDT reply actions  

thank you, thank you
for some sanity.  I think it is clear that Thomas is a complete failure, and always will be, that is no problem, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but let's forget about it and move on, keep him as far away from Oakland as possible, he has no future here or anywhere else.  Bynum, Smith, Watson, who cares, none have futures here either but I would at least like to see them get a taste of the show.

by china bob on Aug 23, 2005 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Patience, A's fans!!
The A's are in a bad slump, and they need a shot in the arm, and if he comes out of the gate like The Natural, Daric Barton could give it to them.  But what are the chances of him being The Natural?  And isn't it a bit much to look to him as the solution to the team's woes?  Anything short of brilliance would be a disappointment if we brought him up now--such a move would smell like panic, to me at least.

Not that I don't understand the impulse to panic, because this offensive slump looks JUST LIKE the one we went through in May, and we're losing practically a game a day to everyone else in the playoff chase.  Still, we can get away with losing some games now, and hopefully September is to August what June was to May, if you know what I mean.

"Every time he opens his mouth he makes a fool of himself," La Russa said. "He's a village idiot."

by rubin sierra on Aug 23, 2005 10:50 PM PDT reply actions  

I know, everybody needs to CHILL
we're not that far behind, and maybe we won't be. Chavvy will be back tomorrow, maybe Barton will come, everything will be cool.

by LLawbug on Aug 23, 2005 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've defended Macha
far more than I've criticized him, but I do think there's room for criticism right now. In May, he did a terrific job with no winning options. He kept the team focused and optimistic; well done.

But while panic and constant change is the worst possible reaction to problems, there is also a lot to be said for the saying, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

So when to "stay the course" and when to "make adjustments"? When you have it right and it's not working, stay the course, things will come around. When you have it wrong and that's why it's not working, make adjustments rather than being stubborn.

Kendall isn't a top of the order hitter and never really has been throughout the year, in that even when his bloops are falling he is an extraordinarily low SLG guy whose OBP comes from things like HBP and hits that don't even advance runners from 1st to 3rd (because he is played so shallow). Batting 9th he'd be an excellent "double leadoff" guy and batting 7th he'd get his share of RISP opportunities where singles would be helpful. He is important to have in the lineup for his presence with the pitchers, but that doesn't mean he has to kill the top of the order. To keep him 1, 2, and (come ON) 3 in the order was never right, and the refusal to fix this is grounds for criticism.

As long as Crosby continues to overswing, he will not be an asset in the 3-hole. They either need to get him to change, sit him, or put him in a spot with less at stake. A top of the order with Ellis, Swisher, and Johnson, for example, would make a lot more sense than a top of the order of Kendall, Kotsay, and Crosby, who should probably be the 7-6-5.

Melhuse isn't a great player but when your team lacks power, get your power-potential hitter in there when he's hot. Don't sit him for a week right when he's locked in and start guys who lack power when healthy and aren't healthy.

Finally, the disuse of Yabu and Ginter, combined with the disuse of Melhuse, has left the A's playing with a 22-man roster with 3 players (that's 12% of the roster) who are not ready to contribute when needed.  

Macha was outstanding at keeping a young team focused in May when they couldn't win no matter what they tried, and he was at his best--doing nothing--in June and July, when it would have been absurd to make any changes.

IMO, he has not been outstanding in August, when changes WOULD be helpful and not the result of any panic. Rather, they would be the result of doing now what should have been done long ago. But he is waiting for what, exactly?

Nico

by Nico on Aug 23, 2005 11:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Fine post
Again, the idea of "showing patience" is lacking merit with today's game. It worked when the Dodger infield was Garvey, Lopes, Russell, Cey for seven years, but not in the 21st century. Fluid motion, but -motion-, is required with this set of players.

Would it upset the team?  It is only when you -change- your M.O. that people/players get upset.

You don't have to resort to "names in a hat".  That is just a ploy to make "agents of change" look diminished.  But a constant "float" of positions in the lineup would help everyone, IMO.  Avoid cause and effect appearances (e.g. Crosby GIDP twice, moves to 8th next day).

by Ducts on the Pawn on Aug 23, 2005 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

So you propose
Ellis
Swisher
Johnson
Chavez
Crosby
Kotsay
Kendall
Payton
DH?

The thing I like about this is that there is some sort of power potential in each third of the order.

On Sunday, for instance, it should have been a good thing that our 1-2-3 guys were up in the bottom of the twelfth. Instead, I almost wished it was a lower part of the order--because of the potential to hit a home run.

The good thing about DJ up that high is that he always seem to drive runs in when he needs to. Tonight, for instance, he had a horrible at bat yet still managed to drive in Crosby.

The other option would be to bat Crosby second and move Swisher down into a better RBI position.

Come ON A's!

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 23, 2005 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ditto
When there's evidence to think things might not get a lot better (versus May when there were)...

When sometimes change is for the better...

When "In Billy We Trust" goes hand in hand with being as efficient as possible (and our lineup right now is not efficient)...

When being on the cutting edge means all options are considered and nothing is forever (not Hudson, not Mulder)...

...It means strong rational critiques like this one deserve discussion.  

Even if it doesn't feel good.  And believe me the past three series have hurt me as much as anyone.  

Let's make a pennant run.

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Aug 23, 2005 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

agreed
patience is a virtue. but part of a manager's job is to know whether to -- and when to -- jiggle the lineup at least a little, and/or sit someone down for a game or two.

by OaklandSi on Aug 24, 2005 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Absitively...
This roster is essentially the same that brought us the great June and July. But things change, if ever so slightly.

Macha's done fine, in my opinion, but I wish he'd be more flexible and respond to change (Crosby slumping, etc.) and adapt in shape to fit the situation, like water.

Yeah...flow like water. Not a brick wall. :)

AN Member Location Surveys: Results | Take part

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Aug 24, 2005 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am going on a new campaign
STOP RAGGING ON BOBBY!

Seriously. Everytime I read something, someone is saying something bad about Bobby. How he can't hit, or how he should be moved down in the order. Or, for heaven's sake, he has terrible defense, which is just insane.

Now lets look at something, shall we. Tonight, we had 2 hits, 2! One was hit by who? BOBBY! We had one Run, scored by who? BOBBY! Once again, like on last Monday, the only GOOD we had through the night was because of Bobby! I know he is "slumping" but really, who isn't on this team right now? When you look at the last week or so, who is doing good compared to the rest, hmmm, oh that's right, BOBBY!

So I am here to say, lets please STOP the Bobby Bashing! Thank you for your support!

"We play our best ball when we're goofing around and having a good time" ~Bobby Crosby

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Aug 23, 2005 11:18 PM PDT reply actions  

I think
I've said some bad things about him.

Obviously, the whole team is slumping. I think my biggest concern has been just how plain awful he looks at the plate lately. Where as some players are still hitting the ball hard or having some good at bats, Bobby has just looked clueless and overmatched at the plate. It seems like his timing (or as he has said, his hand speed) is off, he's too far off the plate, he's getting no where near balls, his footing seems off, etc. He looks uncomfortable and has a lot of terrible at bats.

So while I think his defense is great and he's obviously great for the team, maybe batting 3rd isn't the right spot in the order for him right now. I think he just needs to make a few adjustments, get his swing back, and have some good at bats. Nothing against him at all, just my personal opinion.

Street is a friggin physical marvel... -Mychael Urban

by rookieoftheyear on Aug 23, 2005 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nothing against him....
but he's not a #3 hitter. yah, hes actually done a bit the last few games, but he's not a huge on base guy. Swisher has had more power, should probably be higher up, and Johnson has better at-bats. PERSONALLY, i think that Johnson had a lot to do with the performance of the club after the break, and he's cooled down a lot since KC.

and unless the top of the order can get on, Crosby is only gonna look worse, and the A's aren't going to score.

Macha needs to shake up the line up. the boys need to fight. and the fire needs to come back. the pitchers still have it.

by OaklandSyd on Aug 23, 2005 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good point!
I don't know how many times Crosby comes to bat with 2 outs, but it sure seems like a lot.
Street is a friggin physical marvel... -Mychael Urban

by rookieoftheyear on Aug 23, 2005 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ain't that the truth!
I think a large part of the reason why he is "looking" so bad is because he comes up with 2 outs and being the third out is never a good thing! Especially in the first inning. I really hate feeling like I can skip the first inning or two because I know nothing is going to happen. That makes me sad. I have said it before and I will say it again, the line up needs a little shake, I just don't like hearing that it is because of Bobby.
"We play our best ball when we're goofing around and having a good time" ~Bobby Crosby

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Aug 23, 2005 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love Crosby
but he has not shown that in his second year he is ready to be the #3 hitter. He looked like perhaps he was ready ahead of expected in June. but even since July he hasn't looked comfortable at the plate, and in August this has deepened.

by OaklandSi on Aug 24, 2005 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hear hear!!
Thank you for bringing this up BobbyCrosbysGirl.  Everybody knows Crosby is slumping right now, but like you point out, everybody else is too.

So what if Crosby "looks" bad at the plate?  How many people on this site have jobs in baseball or are scouts?  I thought A's fans were supposed to appreciate stats...

Looking at the stats, as of today, Crosby has the third best OPS on the A's for this season.  Does that mean nothing to you naysayers??

As to the people who say he doesn't get on base, well, wrong again.  He has the fourth best OBP on the team for this season.  I think somebody said Swisher gets on base better.  Actually, Crosby's OBP is .352 and Swisher's is .324.  Hmmmm...is it opposite day or what?

And really, folks, lineup isn't all that important anyway in the American League.  Everyone's supposed to get hits.

by As Man on Aug 24, 2005 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

his terrific June is responsible
for those decent OPS. Look at what he's done since the allstar break.

by OaklandSi on Aug 24, 2005 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I said he is slumping...
but I took your advice and I checked the post allstar break splits.  He's 5th in OBP and 6th in OPS, discounting Melhuse for small sample size.

so what's your point?  he's better than both Kendall and Kotsay in both OBP and OPS since the break...

by As Man on Aug 24, 2005 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

You know...
Would you rather feel dissapointment from the A's now or the second to last game of the season with the Division on the line, like last year?

At least with the A's slumping badly now, they still have time to redeem themselves.

"so what was it? the pork chop or the booty???" -rly723

by secret ASian man on Aug 24, 2005 12:12 AM PDT reply actions  

Idiot.
Macha just by mentioning Charles Thomas name as a September call up proves how detached this man is from reality. WAKE UP!

by RTD on Aug 24, 2005 1:16 AM PDT reply actions  

I think that's BS, RTD--
September call-ups don't take other people's roster spots. A guy who can play top-level outfield defense and who is a fast pinch-runner is a very valuable bench player. If CT isn't taking a roster spot away from anyone, and if his use is as a pinch-runner and defensive replacement, how do you figure that a manager is detached from reality to want him available on the roster?
Nico

by Nico on Aug 24, 2005 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I mentioned in S to S yesterday:
That the speed (pinch running)and D that Chuck brings to the table would be more valuable to this team currently than a Hatteberg that should be DL'd or Ginter that has something like 7 ABs over the last month!!!

I actually think that Macha seeing a need for speed is the best thing he has said this year!!!

"Macha Knows Best" ;)

Adversity will be there everyday, but you quit the day you don't get up. - D Braden

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Aug 24, 2005 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

don't be silly
i thought charles thomas would do something this year.  he hasn't.  but he could.  we could use him to pinch run.  or, he could play outfield and let payton DH.  he has got to be better than kielty.  he is easily better in the field.
Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! -- Ken Macha

by burnone on Aug 24, 2005 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Macha criticisms
It's not fair to label Macha criticisms brainless or implusive.

-Mark Ellis has a .370 OBP and a .414 SLG. Kendall: .344 OBP and .310 (!!!) SLG.

-Swisher's OBP is only slightly higher than Kotsay's but he's slugging almost 70 points higher.

-DJ has a .393 OBP, .504 SLG and 4 more HR than Crosby.

What are Ellis, Swish, and DJ not doing hitting in front of our #1 offensive guy in a time we're struggling for runs?

Let's remember something about the lineup earlier in the year: Kendall and Kotsay had to slip a suggested lineup under Macha's door because he had steadfastly put out a lineup that almost everyone here was criticizing. Were the players being unfair to Macha or brainless when they suggested a different lineup to the one he designed?

Were the players wrong to assume a different lineup may change the offense a little? It seems illogical to assume it won't make any difference if you don't try it. Nobody is talking about benching anyone. Give Kendall or Crosby a day or two of rest if necessary. Of course Kendall/Kots/Croz should work through their slumps, but it would be nice if they weren't working through them 1-2-3 in front of Chavez.

It may not make a huge difference, but it's worth a try. I find it hard to believe it could make anything worse, and I think that criticism of Macha in this regard is legitimate.

by nycfan @ Athletics Nation on Aug 24, 2005 2:10 AM PDT reply actions  

Let's not forget
what coincided with the A's turnaround in 2002. They finally corrected a mistake and moved Johnny Damon to CF. Coincidentally or not, Damon picked up at the plate at the same time, and the team took off.

Same deal with Kotsay/Kendall. Even the two players' plea to correct a mistake was ignored for over a week. Then the switch was made and both players took off, as did the rest of the team--injured players returning had a lot to do with that, too, but Kendall's surge coincided with his move to a more comfortable spot in the order.

Shakeups to "try anything" look like panic because they are. Correcting mistakes and putting people where they belong can fuel a turnaround--if only because it creates a "starting over" point psychologically. Is the team "hitting .012 in its last 9 games" or is it "0-0 with Ellis/Swisher/DJ..."? The offense is pressing right now, expecting failure and having bad ABs they don't normally have.

A "starting over" point, such as Kendall to the bottom third, Ellis to the top third, etc., would benefit this team greatly--psychologically and actually.

Nico

by Nico on Aug 24, 2005 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just want to see Payton in the 3 hole...
His numbers dwarf Crosby's since joining the team and he has more experience making him more able to handle the 3 hitter pressure.

Asking "Booby" to take over the 3 hole in his second season is quite a leap from past players expectations/development.

My Lineup would be:

Kendall
Swisher
Payton
Chavez
DJ
Crosby
Kotsay
Kielty-DH/Millhouse DH
Ellis

It is only two changes that make sense and still keep the Lh RH balance throughout the line-up.

But, "In Billy We Trust", and "Macha Knows Best"!!!  ;)

Adversity will be there everyday, but you quit the day you don't get up. - D Braden

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Aug 24, 2005 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

other than switching
Ellis and Kendall I agree, this lineup looks good

by OaklandSi on Aug 24, 2005 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

The only other one I did think of was just that:
But, Kendall is a great lead-off hitter (By his career numbers) who is struggling. BUT a .365 OBP from the one spot is hardly horrible.

In this line-up Elly is the 2nd lead-off.

Adversity will be there everyday, but you quit the day you don't get up. - D Braden

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Aug 24, 2005 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Daric Barton and MLB service time
Not sure if this was covered before but if Barton is called up doesnt that start his Major League service time clock? (Im not exactly sure the specifics of how service time works)
I think a promotion to Sacramento for the AAA playoffs is more likely.

by fatfrank on Aug 24, 2005 4:36 AM PDT reply actions  

I really don't think Barton was part of the A's
plans for 2005. I think that the speculation about him being called up might show that BB could have been a little more aggressive at the deadline.
   The only problem with that was the A's were playing so good for quite some time, a trade didn't seem essential.  I wonder if the A's scuffled into the deadline (like we are now) if BB would have made a move for a solid hitter.
   I cannot imagine BB expecting the A's to play that well for the rest of season. He had to know we'd see some bumps along the way.  Although Payton has had some big hits for us, I for one would have liked to have picked up another right hand bat.
   And yes I felt that way when things were going great.
  Barton may or may not be called up. I will try my best to avoid speculation on this. Nothing wrong with speculation, but I can see that some of you consider a 20 year old from AA to be the man who will save the 05 A's.  While I would love to see it happen, we must try to set reasonable expectations for him.  
   He's NOT the man who will get us into the playoffs.  It rests on the shoulders of the guys who have been there all season long.
Everyone should want Larry Davis as their boss...there would never be a timetable on anything.

by Unuscione on Aug 24, 2005 5:08 AM PDT reply actions  

Callups
I have a few thoughts on callups (see earlier entry) and spent most of last night awake thinking about it. After watching our defence and pitching play last nights game (the offense was taking batting practice at the Colliseum) I finally convinced myself of what needed to be done!

First of all, I think Macha's comments on callups of Charles Thomas & Jermaine Clark are pointless and self-defensive. Thomas cannot contribute and Clark needs to show more production in Sacramento.

Secondly, I don't think our offence can get any worse, than what we have seen for the past couple of weeks. The slump has hit every player on the team, and if nothing is done, it will affect our pitching as well!! It is just a SLUMP, but even though the players are better than this, we need new vibes and a little fresh blod!!
This may come from the much disgussed Midland 2(or 3 or 4) but the problem is that we don't know if they're ready! It is time to take a chance!! It's a zero-solution bringing up Thomas & Clark, and the real ballsy move is to get Barton and Ethier/Melillo here now!!
BUT there is also another option: Lose Ginter now and get Matt Watson back here. Let him play every day in a 4 man outfield platoon with Swish, Kotsay & JayPay, and switch them around as DH (not Kotsay) We can also give Johnson a needed day off (at least in the field) and still have 3 capable outfielders.
I know that Watson hasn't been preforming, but I think that he - given a chance to play every day - is the best option we have right here and now... No pressure, but just go out and hit for power...Swisher style!

My 2 cents...

"Everything they do, they do it right." ~ Pudge

by anAfromfaraway on Aug 24, 2005 5:35 AM PDT reply actions  

All I can say is
I miss Carlos Pena.  He was my favorite player when he was with us and now I remember why.

by atomopawn on Aug 24, 2005 6:23 AM PDT reply actions  

Help with stats, please!
I track a small home run derby pool.  We track total homers, multiple-homer games (2, 3, & 4) and grand slams.  I've been using ESPN.com's Home Run Tracker but have noticed several errors.  Is there a more reliable site where I can get daily, easy-to-access stats for the numbers I track?  Thanks so much for the help.

by camperdog on Aug 24, 2005 7:34 AM PDT reply actions  

Playing Melhuse and Kendall.....no backup catcher?
Couldn't Hatteberg catch in an emergency?

by AthleticsMojo on Aug 24, 2005 8:03 AM PDT reply actions  

Isnt he back hurting?
No way in hell he could catch with that.

If Kendall got hurt, we would just lose the DH.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Aug 24, 2005 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

No
If you meant isn't his back hurting, then no.  Hatteberg has stated publicly that he could catch in an emergency.
If you meant isn't he hurting again, then yes.  It's an oblique strain that's causing problems with his swing, and probably why his hips are sliding through the zone instead of rotating.

by IndianaAsfan on Aug 24, 2005 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

If it is his oblique....
The he aint crouching behing the plate either.  And talk about someone who can;t throw anyone out...Wow.

This prob will be solved Sept 1 when they call up a catcher anyways.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Aug 24, 2005 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree
that throwing out runners would be a problem...I think it was a major reason he was switched to first base when he signed.

by IndianaAsfan on Aug 24, 2005 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Real Reason The A's Didn't Hit On Tuesday
In what has amounted to May redux, the A's are in a team slump and there probably is no real explanation other than the inexperience of so many of the position players.

But at least we may have some explanation for why the team had but two hits vs a mediocre pitcher on Tuesday. Yesterday was a "testing day" for the A's and Susan Slusser says, "Several players weren't able to produce urine samples after numerous bottles of water, and one needed five attempts before the testing was complete."

No wonder they couldn't hit--the A's were water-logged. It's understandable that Macha was said to be "pissed off."

Once again, we hear the hew and cry that the A's should play Melhuse over Kendall. That nonsense is particularly loud on the OAFC site, where Macha continues to be rapped unmercifully for batting Melhuse instead of Dye in the playoffs. And I have no doubt that some on AN feel the same way. I could use the word, "hypocrisy," but it is doubtful that those culpable could comprehend the meaning of that term...

by reztips on Aug 24, 2005 8:24 AM PDT reply actions  

Unfortunately, reztips,
any good content you offer is always offset by your need to use extreme language and to insult people who don't share your view. It's too bad, because you have some good ideas to offer.
Nico

by Nico on Aug 24, 2005 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is he mediocre?
In his last start he held the Red Sox to two hits in 8 innings as well.  Robertson has pitched much better than his record indicates.  His run support is awful (only two pitchers in the AL have worse run support, and he gets around .2 runs less to work with than Blanton does).

by IndianaAsfan on Aug 24, 2005 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Forgot to add that
aren't some of those posters who wish Kendall removed from the leadoff slot some of the same contributors who bellyached the first two months demanding Kendall be put there instead of Kotsay?

by reztips on Aug 24, 2005 8:37 AM PDT reply actions  

I imagine we all thought
Kendall would be a much different offensive player than this basd on his long history of doing so.

Opinions change...things change, it happens.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Aug 24, 2005 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

365 OBP leading off
He has done a great job leading off.
IT is his catching that should have him as the DH.
Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Aug 24, 2005 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hahah..."great"
A) He is .360 OBP as a leadoff hitter, not .365. B) He is .340 OBP overall.
C) Even if we just go with your number and only count leading off, that would still put him 45th OA among MLB in OBP.  It is good or fine, sure...bt nowhere near "great".  Not even in the great galaxy
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Aug 24, 2005 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Quick question about WHIP
Isn't WHIP number of hits + walks divided by innings pitches?

So Street would have 57/62, which is .919? And is it used as a three-digit number?

Thanks ;) I'm making a point.

Best Coliseum promotion of the year? 2005 Oakland A's baseball.

by baseballgirl on Aug 24, 2005 9:20 AM PDT reply actions  

WHIP
Yes, your calculation is correct, but the number is usually reported with just two places after the decimal point, so right now Street's WHIP is given as 0.92.
With Eric Chavez batting, Jason Kendall scores on defensive indifference.

by matthias on Aug 24, 2005 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

which is CRAZY!
Best Coliseum promotion of the year? 2005 Oakland A's baseball.

by baseballgirl on Aug 24, 2005 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yea, definitely among the best among closers...
Cant touch Rivera of course (Who can?)....but he is right there with Nathan, Guardado, Todd Jones and Wagner.

Fantastic stuff.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Aug 24, 2005 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Macha Refutes Speculation on Barton callup
   I believe I saw this in this AM's SF Chronicle. If it happens, it WILL be a surprise. I think if fans are putting hope in Barton, it's a little too soon. Beane doesn't typically call up players that are highly touted too soon, he usually makes the move after AN typically bellyaches about a particlular player for a couple of months (see Dan Johnson). Once that call is made, it's usually b/c there's no intention of sending that player back down.

   September call-ups are slightly different, Crosby still had Tejada in fromt of him and Swisher was brought up partly b/c of Dye's injury.

   I agree with Macha, it's not the time for Barton.
   HIRE MACHA NOW!

by Gerard on Aug 24, 2005 9:54 AM PDT reply actions  

What is Macha to say?
He almost has to refute the speculation until the kid is actually called up. Giving an open ended answer to the Barton question would create a distraction around the team.

The kid is coming soon and will be a lot of fun to watch down the stretch.  It will be nice having a $350K DH/1B/OF next year put up a .290/.375/430 line.

by DKNJ on Aug 24, 2005 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Macha's reply:
   "He's only 20 and there's too big a gap between Double A pitching and the big leagues."

   Personally, DKNJ, I would love to see him up here and rip the cover off the ball. I just don't think it's going to happen. Now, can a lot happen b/w Aug. 24 and Sept. 1st? Sure. As I mentioned, Swisher came up as a response to Dye's injury. The only injured guy we've got is Hatteberg, but I don't foresee, his bat not being in the lineup on a regular basis in September.

  Unlike last year, Hatteberg is not "burnt out" this time around. The other option would be the outfield. I think Macha would be hard pressed to stick Barton out there where his inexperience could prove costly in the september games when there is such a premium placed on defense.

by Gerard on Aug 24, 2005 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bring up Bynum!
Bat him leadoff! We need speed and he's super fast! I'm sick of seeing Kendall ground out to lead off the game. It seems to put us in an instant hole. Just my opinion. Until then, put Swish in the leadoff spot.

by A'sfansince1970 on Aug 24, 2005 10:04 AM PDT reply actions  

Bynum
its great and all that he's fast---but can he get on base?
Come ON A's!

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 24, 2005 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Macha
He doesn't make roster decisions...Billy Beane and the rest of the front office does.  Macha doesn't decide who is called up and sent down, who stays on the roster, who is traded, etc.

Why Slusser asked him about whether Barton was "ready" to be called up is beyond me.  What authority does Macha have to give this type of evaluation? Is Macha now spending time evaluating our AA players instead of figuring out how to score some runs?

by Adam @ Athletics Nation on Aug 24, 2005 10:22 AM PDT reply actions  

I hate to say it
but Macha seems like he is lost right now.

He is bursting for Chuck Thomas to return.....aghhhh.  This is not a sign that he is on his game.

Tell me that you wouldn't be fired up up about this lineup.

Ellis
Swisher
Chavez
Crosby
Johnson
Payton
Kotsay
Barton
Kendall

Watson should be the 4th Ofer and I would let Ginter take Scutaro's at bats in the utility role.

the losers in this shakeup are Keilty, Hatteberg, Melhouse and Scutaro

by DKNJ on Aug 24, 2005 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ginter rhymes with splinter...
...he's been sitting on his @$$ so long, we should drop him or send him a 1-way to Sacto.

  I'd take your lineup. Macha does seem overly concerned about player "psyche" with regards to the lineup. His biggest headache has been the Melhuse conundrum. That is, managing out of fear that if he bats Melhuse in the DH spot, it effectively removes him from catching that day or making the embarassing move of removing the DH and substituting pinch hitters for the DH spot in the event that Kendall was injured. Conversely, if the A's brought up a 3rd catcher while the 1st never sits and 2nd never plays, then how smart is that? We know that Melhuse would only DH half of the time with Hatteberg still around.

by Gerard on Aug 24, 2005 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Trying to understand the rules, so bear with me
So in the worst possible case scenario, Kendall starts a game and gets injured in the first inning.  Melhuse has to move from DH to catcher and all the guys left on the bench have to pinch hit in the DH spot, one time each, until they have all done it and then the pitcher has to hit.  Is that how it works?  Can a pinch hitter come into the game if someone else gets hurt, or is he ineligible if he doesn't come in immediately?
"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."-Mark Twain

by kkdaz on Aug 24, 2005 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I think you've got it
...but once a pinch hitter is used, he may remain in the game to take someone's place in the field(which is the usual situation), or he's done. So, technically, once you've used up all of the bench guys, you'd have to start using pitchers, to pinch hit. We're only talking about 3-4 ABs anyway. Lastly, the pinch hitter couldn't come into a game twice.

by Gerard on Aug 24, 2005 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

All I know is
Unless you think the A's are playing super awesome right now, and are 100% sure they're going to win the World Series, you aren't a real A's fan! Bandwagoners!!!!
I'll try not to swear.

by Tony on Aug 24, 2005 10:56 AM PDT reply actions  

hey tony is your other handle
royals rooter.  if being a fan since rickey stole 130 bags in a season is a bandwagon fan.  if going to every home game and some away games is being a bandwagon fan.  well, i must be bandwagon.  you decide, since you know best.  
Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! -- Ken Macha

by burnone on Aug 24, 2005 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

The inability of people to figure out
what is real and what is tongue in cheek is amazing. Read the post below that went up about 20 minutes BEFORE yours.

hey burnone is your other handle no sense of humor that doesn't understand sarcasm? I've been to all the same games you have, brother.

I'll try not to swear.

by Tony on Aug 24, 2005 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

There is a difference in being a band wagon
fan, and an impulsive fan.  They don't have to coexist.  There are those of us who can watch and know that slumps happen, and when they do, not want the staritng lineup tonight to be the same one that started at Midland the night before, Ethier, Melillo, Barton, earlier in the year the same people were clamoring for Shawn Kohn.  

by theblackpearl on Aug 24, 2005 11:02 AM PDT reply actions  

It's called sarcasm
Look into it, homes.
I'll try not to swear.

by Tony on Aug 24, 2005 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

can't blame 'em for missing it
There have been posts around here exactly like the one you posted tongue in cheek. Except without the tongue and the cheek.  If you want to be sarcastic around here right now, you're going to need a smiley.  We're all a little neurotic from our relationship with this bipolar A's team.  

by Apricot on Aug 24, 2005 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Point taken
:)
I'll try not to swear.

by Tony on Aug 24, 2005 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Freddy looks good!
His OBP is 388 compared to Kendall's 342. He's faster too and would make opposing pitchers nervous. I say give him a shot. Until then, definitely move Ellis into the leadoff, who has the second highest team OBP to DJ, who is way too slow. Shake it up now before we fall way behind the halos and out of playoff contention!

by A'sfansince1970 on Aug 24, 2005 11:30 AM PDT reply actions  

It could be worse....
I am as sick about the A's slump as anyone, but it's still better than the sad months of November, December, January and February when there is no A's baseball......

Go A's - let's give the Tigers a spanking this afternoon!

by Pleasanton fan on Aug 24, 2005 2:20 PM PDT reply actions  

Amen!!
"We play our best ball when we're goofing around and having a good time" ~Bobby Crosby

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Aug 24, 2005 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

leaving for the game...
RIGHT NOW!!!  im sporting my A's shirt and sitting in right field so i can speak with nick.... ;)  

go A's/tigers/A's/tigers/A's/tigers

Living in the mitten is second best to being Canadian...

Lets go GVSU!

by Alisa on Aug 24, 2005 2:27 PM PDT reply actions  

Just a hunch...
... but I'd bet $10 that Barton is being rested because he's headed to Arizona for the Fall League, not to Oakland for a September call-up.

by Melissa on Aug 24, 2005 3:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Are you crazy or something?
I play WarCraft 3 all day so i can get to the A's game faster.

by MoNeYbALL MaGiC on Aug 24, 2005 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

no
she' KraZeE
Come ON A's!

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 24, 2005 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Huh?
I think I must have missed something. Why is it crazy to think that the A's best prospect would be headed to the showcase of baseball's best prospects where he can show his stuff with other players his age?

by Melissa on Aug 24, 2005 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

With all due respect. he will at the very least:
Play in the post season of some teams roster first.
Adversity will be there everyday, but you quit the day you don't get up. - D Braden

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Aug 24, 2005 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, of course...
..he'll play on the post-season roster of his own team, the first place and first half pennant clinching Midland Rockhounds. When the Rockhounds win the Championship, then he'll go to Arizona.

by Melissa on Aug 24, 2005 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I implied that you were implying that:
he was resting up now for the AFL... ;)
Adversity will be there everyday, but you quit the day you don't get up. - D Braden

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Aug 24, 2005 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Go back to Warcraft
still 20 minutes 'till gametime.
"I made a game effort to argue but two things were against me: the umpires and the rules." - Hall of Fame Manager Leo Durocher

by McFood on Aug 24, 2005 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

This place is falling apart
what a few losses can do to fans
Badges, we don't need no stinkin Badges!

by henry85 on Aug 24, 2005 3:41 PM PDT reply actions  

Everything should be back to groovy...
in about 5 hours from now. If not...

Wear It.

"I made a game effort to argue but two things were against me: the umpires and the rules." - Hall of Fame Manager Leo Durocher

by McFood on Aug 24, 2005 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Oakland Athletics.

Community Guidelines ANcillary Terms

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Aperture_logo_small
Community Prospect List #4
Img_2672_small
Long-Term Outlook

Recent FanPosts

Hahaha_small
Let's Make Some Nicknames!
Fubarcloud_small
Wolf being told to spend money
Small
The wRC+ Challenge
Pumpkin_small
Maybe this is a stupid stats question
Small
A's reportedly sign Cespedes
Unknown_small
Is It Really Worth It: Three Veterans Who May Be Playing Oakland Next Year, But Shouldn't Be
Small
Manny's Contract
Small
fantasy baseball league for A's fans!
Small
NYY Proposal

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Front Page Writers

Maya_papi_small Tyler Bleszinski

08-_the_author_small 67MARQUEZ

Josefav2_small danmerqury

Baseball_small baseballgirl

Poochini-butt_in_box_2_small Nico

Img_0653_small dwishinsky

Front Page Writers

Smiley_face_small gigglingone

Venasfans_small OaklandSi

60-minutes-clock_small cuppingmaster

Patpicturebucky2_small YonYonson

Img_3830_small David Fung

Moderators

Photofunia-5c770b_small coffee roaster

Denver_small Colorado Fan

Ls_logo100_small LoneStranger

Thumbs_up_small LongTimeFan

Marty_profile_in_green_small mrod

Img_1877_small Billy Frijoles

Babycomputergeek_small paris7

Img_0115_small Tutu-late