Voted Off the Island

by Tyler Bleszinski on Jul 13, 2005 4:25 PM PDT in News Comment 134 comments

It's official. No more Jim Mecir. No more Chad Bradford. The A's have gone conventional in the bullpen. No more guys throwing frisbees from down under. No more island of misfit toys.

How boring to have guys throwing nasty sliders and unhittable curveballs coming out of the pen. Will we all long for the days of Mike Venafro, Mike Magnante and Jim Mecir? Ha, I don't think so.

The truth is that Bradford was absolutely excellent during his stay with the A's and I think he would've been a nice addition to this year's bullpen. But I have to believe that this is a precursor to another deal. Either Payton or Eric Byrnes will be moved, perhaps before you can utter the words "Michael Barrett."

The three-year splits are interesting, especially as it pertains to Payton and Byrnes.

Payton actually hits right-handers fairly well. He has hit .295 against righties over the past three seasons, .275 against lefties. His OPS is .807 against lefties and .804 against righties over that same time frame. Byrnes, on the other hand, is .253/against righties, .311/against lefties with an OPS of .746 against righties and .904 against lefties.

The one thing to note about Payton is that much of those numbers were acquired while hitting at Coors Field.

On the surface, if no one is flipped (and that's how this deal needs to be judged for right now), I don't like the deal. Payton didn't like his reserve role in Boston and there isn't really a space for him to be a regular on the A's either. Especially if Swisher and Kielty will continue to be regulars in the A's lineup.

The one wild card to think about here is Erubiel Durazo who will likely also come off the DL very soon. With DJ around, there isn't really a place for Ruby either. Hatteberg isn't going anywhere.

Interesting times are ahead, ladies and gentlemen. I just know that I'm going to dearly miss Bradford as he was such an integral part of those playoff teams. He was one of the only relievers during that time span who didn't make my stomach turn when he entered the game. Yeah, Calero, Duke and Street are probably all better than Bradford now, but that doesn't mean that I won't miss Bradford...and the Island of Misfit Toys (TM Michael Lewis).

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Yeah, I had just read about the trade...

on ESPN. I mean, we all saw it coming. We all didn't like it. So, I assume we all still don't like it. Payton doesn't have a place on the A's. Our outfield is already platooned, and Payton was already complaining about a lack of playing time. I will miss Bradford, but not in terms of the team. Our pen fared just fine without him (for the most part) while he was hurt. I just hope he goes into Boston and just dominates! If I had to guess, Payton won't be here very long. I think he'll be gone by first pitch tomorrow. I have no idea where he might be headed or who would want him, but he shouldn't be around much longer. We have too many OFers, and this just doesnt make sense. Beane is usually pretty logical when it comes to these things, so I'm sure he has something up his sleve.

"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." ~Rogers Hornsby

by ZeroIndulgence on Jul 13, 2005 4:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well Apparently...

The Yankees are going after Brynes!

Rosenthal was just quoted on Sportcnter saying that he believes Byrnes is what the Yankees definately need in CF! How funny is that?

I'd rather deal Payton personally, I just wonder what Billy is up to...JayPay doesn't seem like he fits the A's mold...or a need for that matter.

by FireballerHARDEN on Jul 13, 2005 4:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Really?!?

Boy, if Beane could unload Byrnes on Cashman -- and I say this as a Byrnes fan (albeit a fan who recognizes his shortcomings) -- that'd be great.

Byrnes in the capacious Bronx CF would be ... well, let's say, detrimental to the Yankees' playoff chances.

And Byrnes' power would take a serious hit playing in NY.

He's a decent player who would be a woeful mismatch for New York's needs, to the point of working against the Yankees.

If I'm Beane, I'd send Byrnes to NY for very little in return, and consider it a salary dump and a way to surreptitiously stick it to the Yanks.

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree....

I think Byrnes would thrive in NY....and be much better in CF than anything have had recently....That city would love him.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jul 13, 2005 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't count on it...

Although NY fans pride themselves on liking players like Luis Sojo (because only the "knowledgable" fans in NY can truly appreciate all the "little things" a player like Sojo does), I think their feelings towards Byrnes would depend entirely on whether the team wins once he gets there. If they start playing up to their capabilities after his arrival -- even if he's playing badly -- the media will say that Bynres attitude is inspriring the team, in a sort of Steve Lyons kind of way. If they keep underperforming, however, they'll just focus on the typical Byrnesbrain mistakes and he'll wear out his welcome very, very fast.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 13, 2005 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that Byrnes would

thrive as Yankee and had imagined in the wee hours of the morning when I can't sleep and I am thinking A's.

I think he would respond to the pressure and limelight and take-off...his cup of tea for sure.

However, in cold objective terms, he would eventually level out as the player he is now but it may be a helluva honeymoon in New York for him and the fans. The dis-illusionment may get messy.

by ak_A on Jul 13, 2005 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Byrnes to the Yanks...

would pretty much end the A's chances for the Wild Card this year.

Eric Byrnes - Offensive and defensive dynamo!

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 13, 2005 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree ...

... if you swap in "Yankees" for "A's" ...

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you the same FoolishGame..

who called into Extra Innings after the Saturday win against the White Sox? You said without Byrnes, the A's would've lost the game. Hmmm, as I recall that win on Saturday was a total team effort...

I'm easily distracted by those AVP advertisements

by franks a lot on Jul 13, 2005 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

somebody is impersonating me?

Eric Byrnes - Offensive and defensive dynamo!

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 13, 2005 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right...

because he's been so helpful to the A's turnaround to date.

If the A's traded Byrnes, nothing would change, IMO. Payton and Byrnes are a wash on the field (more or less), and while we would lose Byrnes' energy, we'd really be more or less breaking even.

"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." ~Rogers Hornsby

by ZeroIndulgence on Jul 13, 2005 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's assume Byrnes and Payton is a wash...

for the A's. It's not, but let's assume it is. But, it's not a wash for the Yanks. He'll replace friggin' Tony Womack in their everyday lineup. Byrnes and Giambi in the same lineup... look out. That would be a Wild Card killing trade. If the Yanks don't take the division, they'll take the Wild Card.

Eric Byrnes - Offensive and defensive dynamo!

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 13, 2005 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone would be an upgrade

for the Yanks, Foolishgame. Charles Thomas would be a major improvement over Womack -- he's much, much better defensively and wouldn't be that much worse with the bat. Hell, Steve Stanley could probably hit the way Womack will hit in the 2nd half and he's supposedly a very good CF. The Womack situation just shows how incredibly bad the Yankees' upper minors are for OF -- they have absolutely no one.

So if the Yankees are willing to trade some decent low-minors prospects, they're going to upgrade in CF -- there are probably a dozen teams that have backups better than the Yankees' combo in CF. Their improvement is inevitable -- the question is, who's gonna get what they give up?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 13, 2005 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

True enough...

admittedly, I am not familiar enough with the Yanks' low minor system to comment regarding what they have that Beane would want. I think the general consensus is, however, that their farm system is devoid of talent and that none of the prospects they'd give up would advance over those already in the A's system.

Why would Beane send them anything that would help them for prospects that would never help us? Just don't see it happening.

Eric Byrnes - Offensive and defensive dynamo!

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 13, 2005 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly....

The Yankees dont have a CF and they need speed in that OF with Sheff and Matsui there. I think it would be a huge upgrade for them.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jul 13, 2005 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

While I thought it was funny...

The prospect scares me. Somehow I could see Byrnes just catching fire...and that would really not be cool. His defense would drive the Yanks fans crazy though...one minute they'll love him, the next they'll be pulling their hair out!

by FireballerHARDEN on Jul 13, 2005 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

With regular playing time ...

... I, too, can see Byrnes going on one of his hot streaks.

But "regular playing time" would pretty much mean putting in CF, right? The Yankees seem unwilling to make Godzilla their CF.

And Byrnes as the Yankees' everyday CF ... well, they'd be longing for the halcyon days of Tony Womack in CF ...

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It'll mean A's fans will be seeing Byrnes...

on ESPN Web Gems nightly. And, with regularly playing time, in that lineup, he'll surely surpass Kotsay's numbers against righties this year. Be a great trade for Byrnes... terrible one for the A's, though.

Eric Byrnes - Offensive and defensive dynamo!

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 13, 2005 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

fightin all the way to the end Foolsh!

I gotta admire it

by pickinmachine on Jul 13, 2005 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Byrnes in NY

Man, can you imagine? The first time he misplays a ball in the outfield, the articles in the tabloids will read like a reztips post on AN.

But, seriously, if the Yankees (or anyone else) are really interested and willing to give up a half-decent prospect, or a spare part that can help us this year, I'd do it in a second. Byrnes is getting to be too expensive for what he contributes. Time to pawn him off on some GM who doesn't really understand how to evaluate defense.

That's their job. The good thing is that I don't care what they write. - BB

by andeux on Jul 13, 2005 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't do it, Eric!

Steinbrenner will make him cut off the pretty golden curls and he'll never be the same player....just like Giambi.

by Englishmajor on Jul 13, 2005 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's more ...

... can you even imagine Byrnes and Torre in the same room together?

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

boooo!

i was looking forward to Bradford coming back as well, and as the trade stands now, I'd prefer Bradford.

I'm hoping there is still more to come.....

by high street on Jul 13, 2005 4:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Thank you Chadford

You were a solid, solid A, and were an integral part of our playoff runs. All the best to you in Boston (except against Oakland, of course).

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Jul 13, 2005 4:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

We still love you in Oakland

by Oaktown Kid on Jul 13, 2005 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

simple math....25+1-1=?

We have a 25 man roster in Oakland...

Bradford is taken off the DL - that's 26.

Payton is added, Bradford subtracted - that's still 26.

Who are we sending down?

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jul 13, 2005 4:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Gotta be Ginter

by Tyler Bleszinski on Jul 13, 2005 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Got to be Nation's

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Time to DFA Glynn

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Jul 13, 2005 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

by xbhaskarx on Jul 13, 2005 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

no need

Dotel could be moved to the 60-day DL, freeing up a spot on the 40-man roster, and Glynn (or Ginter) could be optioned down.

But I'm a little confused. I thought that Bradford couldn't be traded while he was on the DL, which meant the A's would have had to activate him, and hence make other moves to free up space, before the trade. But I haven't seen any reports, or even rumors, of anyone being sent down.

That's their job. The good thing is that I don't care what they write. - BB

by andeux on Jul 13, 2005 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

40 man?

Wasn't Bradford taken off the 40 man roster when he was put on the 60 day DL as well? Does this mean we have to take someone off the 40 man roster and send them through waivers?

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds."
Red Barber, announcer

by Furious George on Jul 13, 2005 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is why I love Beane

I don't quite get this trade ... YET ... but I trust the guy, and you know he knows what he's doing. How many fans trust their GM the way we do Billy?

Sure, Payton could now be traded again, though I don't really know who else wants him, but I'm on the record now saying this: if he stays, he'll be a good addition to the team. He actually has power, which is certainly an upgrade in our outfield.

Remember, doubters, nobody liked the Kielty trade when it went down or for a year afterward. Now people love it. We aren't the Pirates. Our GM makes trades that make sense for his organization. Keep the faith.

by Crosbino on Jul 13, 2005 4:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Boston is Desparate...

to go after Bradford the way they have.If you consider their pen this year in which they'd put Schilling there. That's trouble. Their team may very well win the East, but it's flawed and vulnerable. They were LUCKY we didn't take 2/3 from them and that's when we were at our worst.

Payton or Byrnes to Yanks doesn't give a whole bunch depending on what we get in return. Our biggest need remains protecting Chavy in the lineup with a big bat. No one has come up on the radar who fits that picture. Durazo's situation is interesting but he'll only go to an AL team. So he's prob. not in the picture esp. being hurt.

So what's the bottom line?...

by Gerard on Jul 13, 2005 4:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Blez

Is Hatteberg staying b/c no one else wants him or b/c Billy prefers him?

And what teams would be interested in Durazo?

by Sharon on Jul 13, 2005 4:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think it's a little of both

and Durazo will obviously have to go to an AL team. Maybe Toronto? Just guessing.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Jul 13, 2005 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A fond farewell to Chadford

I feared for thee, I cheered for thee, and now I weep for thee.

Fearing Mecir since 2000.

by salb918 on Jul 13, 2005 5:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Bradford

He was pretty much the best novelty type bullpen pitcher Ive ever seen play for the A's. With that being said, I think the league has adjusted to him, hes very hittable. In addition to the back injury I think nows the best time to move him for something else the A's could use more.

We'll just have to wait and see, but I think BB track record speaks for itself.

by pickinmachine on Jul 13, 2005 5:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

"novelty type"

I think Zapf Dingbats was the finest novelty type bullpen pitcher I ever saw.

Every pitch he threw, the hitters would unleash a stream of &%$*#&!

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'll miss bradford

i liked him, but we'll see how this unfolds. maybe beane has more up his sleeve, or maybe payton will be better than we think.

"...the plate won't move. The mound is going to feel the same. The strike zone, with slight variations, is going to be right where it has always been." -Huston

by sabriel on Jul 13, 2005 5:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Aww

Y'know, watching Chadford was one of the things that drew me to the A's in the first place when I was looking for a baseball team to make my own. It's sad for me to see him leave, although - assuming this deal is merely Part One of something bigger - I'm cool with the decision. Still...I just kinda wish I could have seen more of him n an A's jersey. I guess I feel that way about a lot of people. Watching the All-Star game made me sad I jumped aboard too late to see Miggy as an A. Oh well. Lamentations.

But I am excited to see what comes from this. Watching Billy work is a big part of the joy of being an A's fan in this era. Let's see what's next.

by textonly on Jul 13, 2005 5:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm as confused as everyone else

regarding this Payton/Bradford trade. Billy knows something we don't. It doesn't make any sense to me. :-/

Maybe it will be Payton and Durazo that will be packaged and shipped off to another team.... ?
I hope Hatty stays.

GO A's!!!

by AsGirl on Jul 13, 2005 5:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Boo!

I want misfits dammit! I want are bullpen to be full os submariners, guys with clubfeet, braces on legs, maybe we can that pitcher with the extra finger? I'd settled for "he Human Fly", Gustavo Chacin or whatever his name is from the Blue Jays. No but we have to have pretty pitchers like Street and Duke. Boo!

Bruce Campbell deserves his own national holiday.

by pbruins92 on Jul 13, 2005 5:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Neither Payton or Byrnes will go to the Yanks

What can the Yankees offer? They only have Duncan and Hughes and if Cash-man didn't trade those two for Kotsay he won't trade them for Payton or Byrnes, if you take out those kids they have NOTHING to offer, besides I don't think Beane will trade a player for a Wild Card rival, if you want to Know the new team for Byrnes or Payton look at Houston, Cubs or Atlanta, NL teams, need OF and good players to offer

by Olijerez77 on Jul 13, 2005 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Payton

I don't understand why this trade is being bemoaned (sp?) by so many. Bradford really didnt have a place on this team. The bullpen is abover average and only getting better.

With that said, what has been the problem most of the year? Offense. Look Payton isnt great, but hes been a pretty clutch hitter (Mets Playoffs in '00), he is a decent fielder, and he is a guy who Beane has liked for a long time. Beane still could trade Payton (Joe Kennedy, I hope not). I guess my point is trust Beane and for the meantime hope Payton does well.

by Pucking Insane on Jul 13, 2005 5:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

While now is the time

fans want to analyze the trade, it's also the only time that doesn't make sense. It never matters where you are in the middle of dealing, it matters what you have when the dust clears.

However, what I will say (as a Bradford fan who will miss him a lot) is that I don't think Bradford will thrive in Boston. He always preferred low-visibility, lower-pressure situations. Plus, he is rusty as all get-up--not an ideal time to step into the spotlight.

So I think it is too early to say how good a deal it is for the A's, but I think Boston may be disappointed with a "bad match"--not that it would take much right now for them to upgrade, but the question is will Bradford approximate his success in Oakland? I really wonder.

Nico

by Nico on Jul 13, 2005 5:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

agree

I remember the chapter about him in Moneyball, very reserved, doesnt like attention.

If he gets off to a rocky start in Boston, I expect that city to eat him alive.

by pickinmachine on Jul 13, 2005 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

The frenzy that is Boston and New York is not kind to people. I hope that the atmosphere in Oakland can remain a lot more forgiving, but just as intense.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Jul 13, 2005 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i hope payton enjoys his five hours

as a member of the oakland athletics.

by xbhaskarx on Jul 13, 2005 5:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

our guys wont like facing Bradford.

It'll be a little fun for the Red Sox.

I took a torpedo through the lower abdomen while on patrol in the north Atlantic. They replaced my entire bowel with hemp. Clogs easily. -Loyd Bridges

by robber23 on Jul 13, 2005 5:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Actually ...

... since lefties who like the ball low in the zone do extremely well against Chadford (see Everett, Carl), I don't think we'd mind facing him.

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

byrnes to yanks: the big question

how soon before foolshgame22 leaves AN for the yankes sportsblog?

by xbhaskarx on Jul 13, 2005 5:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Byrnes ain't going to the Yanks...

so you don't have to worry about that. Like you said, I hope Payton enjoys his 5 hours with the A's.

Eric Byrnes - Offensive and defensive dynamo!

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 13, 2005 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The new A's

No big three, no freaks in the bullpen, and no more horendous fielding. What has become of the A's, they are now able to pose as a conventional baseball team. This and the positive press from Joe Morgan can mean only one thing...The End is Near!...Soylent Green is people! Coke and Pepsi are the same thing! I now will run around and scream for bit.

(now thats good crazy)

Bruce Campbell deserves his own national holiday.

by pbruins92 on Jul 13, 2005 6:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Why not move DJ?

There's many 1B types in the organization, he's showing he can hit in the bigs, other players like Durazo and Hatteberg are already going to be paid regardless (sunk costs on contract) and they're both very good hitters (in spite of what consensus is on this board as it relates to each)...so, why not move DJ to a taker who is willing to cough up some prospects. This team just got significantly better in the OF and you know that somebody not named Kotsay or Swisher is going to be on the move. So, is Payton going to be flipped or is he here to stay for the remainder of the season? I think he's here to stay just as I think that Keitly is staying too. Hmm!

http://www.cafehayek.com ~ a blog for classical liberals

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 13, 2005 6:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

LCJ, it's not that

Durazo and Hatty aren't any good. But Durazo can only DH, and Hatty is approaching the twilight of his career.

DJ, on the other hand, looks to have exceptional maturity to go with his 3-6 year affordability. Those are the guys the A's want to keep as they "reload" for '06-'08 and beyond.

But maybe you don't feel DJ is "the real deal"--personally I do, based on what I've seen.

Nico

by Nico on Jul 13, 2005 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"approaching the twilight"?

Hatteberg is rooting around in the kitchen drawer for a flashlight so he can look in the backyard to see the raccoons fighting over the remnants of his career.

(OK, no, he's not that bad, I just got carried away with the metaphor.)

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Barton will be playing, where?

http://www.cafehayek.com ~ a blog for classical liberals

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 14, 2005 4:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

whoa! trade DJ?, no way. this is one of

the guys we're going to build a team that makes the playoffs for the next 5 years. Great eye, good bat control, smart hitter, good power.

by alamedaman on Jul 13, 2005 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trade DJ?

Well it's an unconventional idea, so bravo to the out-of-the-box thinking. Of course everyone wants to hold on to the cheap young talent... it takes guts to suggest selling high on that part.

But I agree that Hatteberg and Durazo don't have enough future production in 'em.

by achiappanza on Jul 13, 2005 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

As I kicked off the entry...

...this organization has many 1B types already in it (some will be pushing the others from the lower levels very soon).

http://www.cafehayek.com ~ a blog for classical liberals

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 14, 2005 4:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How much money did we get?

Isn't that the real question? Why isn't anybody asking that question??

It's clear as the pope's hat is pointy that we didn't need another mediocre outfielder. Meanwhile, we have GLYNN IN OUR BULLPEN. Isn't there something fishy here?

Either Bradford is a shell of what he used to be or we got a great deal of badly needed money in the deal.

Maybe we had to pay Wolff back?

One way or another, I trust Beane. There is a plan here. Bradford must've really been done and there must be some team out there that wants Payton. Maybe Beane heard through the grapevine that the Yankees were trying to get Payton, and he wanted to get in the middle of it. In Beane we trust. But I really hope Bradford's done, otherwise I'm shaking my head at this deal.

by TonyArmas on Jul 13, 2005 6:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Rockies still want Byrnes

According all rumors in the Denver Post. I still wondering if Bradford is 100%, if not Billy just "Beaned" the Sawx. I'll miss you Chad.

by pachydermOAFC on Jul 13, 2005 6:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Rosenthal:

http://www.sportingnews.com/experts/ken-rosenthal/20050713b.html

The Rockies are also discussing a trade with the Oakland A's that would send outfielder Eric Byrnes to Colorado for starting pitcher Joe Kennedy and relief pitcher Jay Witasick.

by Sharon on Jul 13, 2005 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Return of Jay Witasick...RUN AWAY!

I'm easily distracted by those AVP advertisements

by franks a lot on Jul 13, 2005 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the plot thickens

okay, I understand Witasick. He's old, but he can still strike people out, so he's right in the mold of Nouveau A's high-K bullpen guys. I just cannot get my head around Kennedy. Maybe Kennedy will be flipped to some other team?

I'm fine with Byrnesy going to Colorado, because

He might start. Good for him.
Altitude will give him more hang time.
Altitude will give him more pop.
He'll be in the NL so he won't hit for the cycle against us in revenge.

by Apricot on Jul 13, 2005 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Altitude

might also make Byrnes light headed. Or, more light-headed than he is at sea level.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 13, 2005 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is something else coming...

This trade alone seems odd....there has to be something else coming. It could be Byrnes, Kielty or Payton. Who knows??? (beane).

I love where we are now given our first couple of months. I still think this team needs an RBI/Power even though our team has been able to score lately. What if we made a trade for a big RBI guy like Sheffield (I don't like that idea beacause I hate his steroid bloated a-hole self, but we could use his bat...but at what cost)?

by MemphisA on Jul 13, 2005 6:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Funniest Post of the Year

Foosh says that trading BynesBrain to the Yankees would pretty much end the A's Wild Card chances for this year. Hee hee! That's a good one!
While we wait to see what will ultimately transpire, this gives eeryone at AN a much needed belly laugh! ;-)>

Actually, as monkeyball insightfully writes, Bumblin Byrnesey to the Yanks would actually improve the A's chances as it would be a possible kiss of death for the Yanks' Wild Card chances.

Imagine the Byrnes Butcher Shop in immense Yankee Stadium CF...He'd allow a record number of inside the park HRs with his inability to judge fly balls. And at the bat, again Monkeyball is right, ByrnesBrain would have a hard time reaching the left-center seats.

Of course, Blez has already delineated that over his career, Payton hits righties considerably better than ByrnesBum. And there is no doubt that Payton is the superior fielder. If Kotsay ever went down with an injury, the A's and their fans would no longer shake in their boots contemplating the Byrnes Butcher Shop in CF--Payton is speedy and actually capable of taking the right routes to fly balls. He also is intelligent enough to hit the cutoff man, something Byrnes rarely does...

by reztips on Jul 13, 2005 6:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey, Foolishgame22

You been served!

And now, it's on. Oh yes, it's on.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 13, 2005 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

no problema...

when reztips accepts my bet, we'll all know he's got some balls and not just a big mouth. But, he won't, so we all know what that means. ;-)

Rich Harden - Cy Young 2005!

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 14, 2005 1:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

lighten up

he likes Byrnes way more than anyone should, but no real need to flame him like that calling it the "funniest post of the year."

by Pucking Insane on Jul 13, 2005 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My Advice to BrynesBrain:

"Go East Dumb Man." ;-)

by reztips on Jul 13, 2005 6:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

said HorA's Greenly

by ak_A on Jul 13, 2005 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

NICE!

Brill. Nicely done.

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A fellow nerd? with a mind packed

with world-wide historical facts, dates, quotes, who's who, who did what when, trivia, etc. Wish I could dump half of it and maybe get a real life...it is so distracting.

by ak_A on Jul 13, 2005 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sigh

Ok, I know that with our bullpen now, we didn't exactly need Bradford, but I tend to get sentimental about players that have been with the A's for a while, and this is no exception. And for him to have to go to Boston... yuck. Bad mental picture of him in a Sox uniform. I hope he does well there, for his sake, because Boston fans can be tough. And as for Payton, I just don't know where he'd fit in, so I have to think Beane's not done. Anybody else remember the first Redneck Jeopardy on Extra Innings a couple years ago, with Huddy and Bradford and I think Fikac...? Chad said something about a cricket farm, if I remember correctly. Good times. Also, I have the same question as someone else did-- I thought he couldn't be traded if he's still on the DL, so was he activated first and then traded...?

by whiteshoes40 on Jul 13, 2005 6:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, if nostalgia is what you're after

what could be better than the A's trading for Jay Witasick? Next up? Don Wengert, John Wasdin, and Doug Johns!

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 13, 2005 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about

picking up Gerronimo Berroa for the strech run?

by natsirt on Jul 13, 2005 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doc

We want Gil Heredia!

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds."
Red Barber, announcer

by Furious George on Jul 13, 2005 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was

going to include Gil but then I remembered I was there. Game five with him on the mound against the Yanks. Damn we were close.

by natsirt on Jul 13, 2005 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, Quist!

My favorite reliever-slash-Norwegian-expletive!

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bradford's replacement?

Talking about Billy The Marlin: "The guy has a nasty cutter, and hitters find it nearly impossible to pick up the flight of the ball coming off his long, shiny, molded-plastic nose."

Trade for this guy immediately. I'll trade Chavez and Crosby for this guy.

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds."
Red Barber, announcer

by Furious George on Jul 13, 2005 6:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

PS

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=neel/050713&num=0

Some A's love and some Morgan hate.

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds."
Red Barber, announcer

by Furious George on Jul 13, 2005 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

damn, that's funny

by OaklandSi on Jul 13, 2005 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Michael Barrett

Why would the A's want him? Melhuse is a very decent back-up catcher. Kendall insists on being behind the plate every day and is hitting well.

Kensington Slim

by kensington slim on Jul 13, 2005 6:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Haha

I was waiting for that one. He means think Michael Barrett who the A's traded for and then immediately sent him to the Cubs for Damien Miller. Blez thinks Payton will never put on the A's uniform.

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds."
Red Barber, announcer

by Furious George on Jul 13, 2005 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Michael Barrett

Why would the A's want Damian Miller? Isn't Michael Barrett also with the Cubs?

Kensington Slim

by kensington slim on Jul 13, 2005 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you joking right?

by Olijerez77 on Jul 13, 2005 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

triple secret background

I will mess up the details, but basically after Beane dealt Ramon, he apparently got the young promising catcher Michael Barrett from the Expos (who?) to replace him; but he ended up being flipped to the Cubs for Damien Miller the next day.

The Internets tell me that we gave up Bret Price for Barrett, which I definitely did not remember.

by Apricot on Jul 13, 2005 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Patrick Fitzegerald ...

... would like a word with you ...

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

... about ...

... that extra "e" in his last name, apparently ...

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bradford

A few thoughts: Who said Bradford is healthy? Who said he will ever be the same? Why the hell did Boston agree to take a player who may break down in a week? He's only had (I think) one decent rehab outing so far. If he falls apart, this will look brilliant no matter what we do with Payton or our other outfielders.

On the other hand, IF, and that's a BIG if, Bradford is back to the self he was last year, be is probably better than anyone in the pen other than Calero, Street, and Duke.

Also, as many have pointed out, we now just plain have too many outfielders I would want to see everyday. Swish, Byrnes, Kielty, and obviously Kotsay need or deserve at-bats now, and Payton will too.

What interests me is the ability Beane now has to offer any team looking to upgrade someone decent at practically any position. We can give up one of our middle infielders or outfielders for prospects and I'd be happy with the whole thing.

"The game has a cleanness. If you do a good job, the numbers say so. You don't have to ask anyone or play politics..." - Koufax

by Zakolantern on Jul 13, 2005 6:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

despair

Boston really needs bullpen help. They also really wanted to dump Payton, labelled a clubhouse cancer. Probably not a lot of bullpen offers for Payton...

by Apricot on Jul 13, 2005 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Boston is desperate enough

that they're willing to take a gamble. Bradford is a crap-shoot for them. If he works out, great. If he doesn't, they discard him and it's no big deal.

It's not costing them much, since they pretty much had to release Payton in any case.

by iglew on Jul 13, 2005 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bradford

was one of only four current A's who were on the 01 team.

If Byrnes gets traded, it'll be down to just two -- Chavez and Zito.

by iglew on Jul 13, 2005 7:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Watson

watson just had a good AB in the allstar game. walked to help load the bases for the PCL team.

by Utah on Jul 13, 2005 7:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

We ARE playing tomorrow...any more

"slack time" and I will get used to it.

by ak_A on Jul 13, 2005 7:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

This deal was the Kotsay backup...

...in case we had to trade him. Or possibly the Kotsau smokescreen to get him to ink the deal.

It would indeed appear that this will now be part of something else, but we don't know what Billy knows

by Rob on Jul 13, 2005 7:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I meant the KOTSAY smokescreen.

Unless we've signed another one from Japan.

by Rob on Jul 13, 2005 7:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Who Needs an Average Outfielder?

Which club could use an average outfielder like Payton or Kietly or Byrnes? Houston, Washington, Atlanta, Cubs (CF), Dodgers and Philadelphia (CF). For those clubs one (or two) of those outfielders has value. Of those, Washington and Altanta need it the least. I think Houston needs offense the most (but seems to have the least to give the A's). Dodgers are a mess, and doubt if they'd bite, but Jayson Werth would be a big upgrade in Left Field for your team. Most intriguing are Philadelphia and Cubbies. They are desperate to win this year. They need a centre fielder. Can Byrnes play CF? Not well, but an upgrade on what they have. For me, I would bet on Philadelphia. Some combination of Payton, Byrnes, DJ and some young pitching for their 1B(whose name I forget). Philly also needs some fire and that is why they might want Byrnes. They'd overpay for that.

Then there is Cincinnati who need young pitching. Meyers for Dunn or Kearns? No, that may be too much.

The biggest gap Oakland has is a lack of a power hitter in the 5 spot. Burnitz? Philly 1B? Adam Dunn? Burrell? These are not players with high on base percentages. But it might be what your team needs.

Philly will trade. Their GM is desperate to make a run. How does Beane do in trades with desperate GMs? Will that trade be with Oakland? I suspect they are talking.

by OldExpo on Jul 13, 2005 7:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I was about to say ...

... that Toronto is the only team that could use a centre fielder -- before I noticed your handle, thereby obviating my goofiness ...

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Atlanta scoffs at your inclusion of them

Andruw, Francouer, Johnson and Langerhans. How is Byrnes an upgrade, especially given the salary and arb-clock disparities?

by Rip2632 on Jul 13, 2005 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kennedy and Witasick - official

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20050713&c ontent_id=1130466&vkey=pr_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak

by matthias on Jul 13, 2005 7:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Not Done Yet

Pieces for a bigger trade.

by OldExpo on Jul 13, 2005 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Holy Crap...

That is all.

Holy crap

by FireballerHARDEN on Jul 13, 2005 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's the other shoe. Any more shoes?

Not sold on the Payton for Byrnes swap (essentially). What happened to the quest for power?

Witasick has great numbers this year, for what that's worth. I still don't get the Kennedy fascination... his numbers and peripherals all look bad. Even when you give him a 25% Coors discount.

I hope there are more trades on the horizon.

I second the regret about giving up Q, but I guess we're stocked up on non-slugging 2Bers.

by Apricot on Jul 13, 2005 8:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Bye Bye Byrnes!!!

Nice to know you..=(

Badges, we don't need no stinkin Badges!

by henry85 on Jul 13, 2005 8:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

wow

busy day in Beane Land. I like the trades just for the fact that something bigger seemes to be brewing. Not sure what, but something. I like the addition of Witasak to the pen. Should I be picking up Byrnes for my fantasy team? Naw..... best wishes to him.

by Utah on Jul 13, 2005 8:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

How do we come out better?

Byrnes > Payton
Quintanilla > Witasick to the A's

What do we need Witasick for? The reason we got rid of Bradford was we didn't need him with Cruz and Etherton available. Beane must value the potential draft pick highly.

But Quintanilla was working out- he was even hitting for some power.

by athletics02115 on Jul 13, 2005 8:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

i'm ok Wit asick

Our bullpen is weak. We could use another power arm. In fact we could even use another power arm besides him.

Agree Byrnes >= Payton.
Kennedy >= 0 ??

by Apricot on Jul 13, 2005 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the Byrnes-Kotsay bet

this is a sad day for FoolshGame I'm sure, but he may come out richer in October for it.

by As Man on Jul 13, 2005 8:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe the free agent angle?

Payton = free agent end of 2005
Witasick = free agent end of 2005

Bradford = $1.5m+ arbitration coming next year
Byrnes = $3m+ arbitration coming next year

by athletics02115 on Jul 13, 2005 8:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

good point

also Beane keeps on making cryptic references about being willing to spend money when the time is right... hmmm.

He also keeps talking about the One Slugger to Bind Them All. Spooky, really.

by Apricot on Jul 13, 2005 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How awesome would ...

... Saruman look hitting behind Chavvy?

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jeez Louise, Byrnes Gone

Witasick as a reliever to replace Bradford, and Kennedy as... what, a replacement for Zito???

I liked the Byrnes to NYY rumor, but alas, truth is harder than fiction.

Wonder what Byrnes can do with the bat at Colorado and that high-alt field.

Sure am sorry to see him go, regardless of outfield gaffes. There is always a place for a person with a big heart and/or major guts.

>>>>
Kennedy, a 26-year old left-hander, was 4-8 with a 7.04 ERA in 16 starts for Colorado this season. The Rockies managed to score just 12 runs in his eight losses this season and were shutout on three occasions. He posted a 3-1 record with a 7.09 ERA (31er in 39.1ip) in seven starts at Coors Field and was 1-7 with a 7.01 ERA (41er in 52.2ip) in his nine road starts. Kennedy, who spent three seasons (2001-03), has compiled a 31-46 record with a 4.95 ERA in 125 Major League appearances, including 115 starts, dating back to the 2001 season.

Witasick, a 33-year old right-hander, signed a minor league contract with the Rockies on April 9 after being released by Baltimore. He was 0-4 with a 2.52 ERA in 32 relief appearances for Colorado serving primarily as the club's set-up man, appearing in the seventh inning or later in 29 of his 32 outings. He held opponents to a .209 batting average and struck out 40 batters in 35.2 innings of work. His strikeout total ranked tied for 11th among all National League relievers. Witasick allowed just six earned runs in his last 29 appearances (33.0ip) and walked just nine batters during that stretch, two intentionally, while holding the opposition to a .185 (22-119) batting average. This marks his second stint with Oakland, where he compiled a 2-4 record with a 6.18 ERA (35er in 51.0ip) in 27 appearances, including three starts, from 1996-97. In 12 Major League seasons, which includes stops in Kansas City, San Diego, New York-AL, San Francisco along with Colorado and Oakland, Witasick has compiled a 29-40 record with a 4.60 ERA in 321 career appearances, including 56 starts.

by Dan_Honolulu on Jul 13, 2005 8:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

David Forst speaks up......

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/07/13/sports/s202220D39.DTL&type=as

Looks like Kennedy will be here to stay, at least for this season.

by TaiwaneseAsFan on Jul 13, 2005 8:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting,

thanks for the link. First thought that comes to mind is that if we need to include Rincon in a package for "the player we really want," now we can do it. Is that where this is heading? Because if it's just having 2 lefties in the pen, Flores was doing fine as a "2nd lefty".

Nico

by Nico on Jul 13, 2005 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

OH. MY. GOD

Byrnes got traded. I TOTALLY didn't expect that. I mean, we saw it coming, but I never thought it'd actually happen . jeez. I'm actually pretty sad to see him go. :( Let's hope BB knows what he's doing.

by Squeaky on Jul 13, 2005 8:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

OMG

I'm not happy to see Bradford go. I have mixed feelings about Byrnes. Yeah, he frustrated me, but he also was a thrill. Low valleys, high peaks. I wish him well and hope he gets more regular playing time in Colorado. And he'll get to face the Giants a lot :-)

Still not psyched about the Jay Payton thing. We keep acquiring people who are supposedly the RH power bat, a la Ginter...but with weak creds. Well, here's hoping I'm surprised.

Don't know much about Kennedy, and adding Witasick to the pen will be good. So there's the upside..

"Everyone was saying, 'Swisher, you suck!' and I was like, 'OK, we've established that.' "

by oblique on Jul 13, 2005 8:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Payton a starter?

from Chico Enterprise Record

Major-league executives who've spoken with the A's indicate Oakland would like to give Payton a shot at a corner outfield starting job next year.

Is Beane crazy? Payton stinks- he's deteriorating- you don't emphasize defense in a corner outfielder when you have Kotsay

by athletics02115 on Jul 13, 2005 8:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I translate that as ...

... "Other GMs who are now trying to pry Payton from Oakland say that Beane is holding out and trying to extract a better deal from them instead of merely flipping Payton for a bag of balls."

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 13, 2005 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

good luck Bradford

The thing about him is that, despite his wonderful delivery, he had indeed (as someone in another thread said) become a ROOGY. Lefties were crushing him. Also, I think the A's are going in a high K direction, as opposed to a high GB direction in the pen.

by Apricot on Jul 13, 2005 8:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Beanius!

First of all, Bradford just had back surgery. Anybody out there got a bad back? Plus my kid loved bradford(and me too) because of that crazy frisbee. But jeez, trying to teach my son proper pitching mechanics was not easy with that role model.
I'm going to miss burns, always amusing, but I'm also very relieved. Run Payton out there and see what happens. It will be intresting how Macha handles it. Kielty has earned the right to play, but I think Payton is the better outfielder.
Outfield inproved, bullpen imporoved.
Beanius!

by elephantman on Jul 13, 2005 8:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

don't worry

trying to teach my son proper pitching mechanics was not easy with that role model.

You can get your son to watch video of Takatsu, BH Kim or Kent Tekulve instead...

by Apricot on Jul 13, 2005 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yep

and hope he becomes a chiroprator instead of a pitcher!

by elephantman on Jul 13, 2005 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or Rincon ...

... who looks like a drunk, teetering on the upper-deck railing of the Titanic, trying to throw a dart at the iceberg without falling into the North Atlantic ...

Laugh while you can, monkeyboy!

by monkeyball on Jul 14, 2005 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you Billy

for giving us something to talk about on this third day of the All Star Break...thank you for providing us something to do other than pine away for the next game, which is so late in the day tomorrow...thank you for giving us reason to debate, ponder, question, and ultimately accept every move you make.

In Billy We Trust.

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jul 13, 2005 9:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

DO NOT BELIEVE IT

50/50 Beane flips Kennedy on to the Dodgers, Rangers, Yankees or Marlins for something real instead of a 7th starter. We have Saarloos and Etherton already.

by athletics02115 on Jul 13, 2005 9:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Free agent angle

Maybe the free agent angle? (none / 0)
Payton = free agent end of 2005
Witasick = free agent end of 2005

Bradford = $1.5m+ arbitration coming next year
Byrnes = $3m+ arbitration coming next year

I don't believe this talk from Beane/Forst at all. We are not going to pay Kennedy $3m next year (his likely arbitration figure next year) to be in the bullpen. We can't possibly be looking at Payton for LF or RF when we already have Kotsay patrolling on defense.

by athletics02115 on Jul 13, 2005 9:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Watson

I visualize either Payton or Kielty traded away to any of the other teams who might want them, and Watson called up as the new 4th outfielder - not sure how I'd split playing time among that four though. You could package a starting pitcher and a corner outfielder (take your pick which 5th starter - we have plenty) to a contender for something actually good.

If you don't mind seeing Watson as one of 4 outfielders, with some uknown amount of playing time, we still have the ability to trade away an above-average middle infielder (Ellis Ginter or Scutaro), an above-average corner outfielder (Kielty or Payton) and a 5th string pitcher - or a 4th or 3rd string for some teams - Sarlos, Etherson, or Kennedy. That's a LOT of trade bait without losing much important about the team.

P.S. - I know I can't spell the names of our players - sorry.

"The game has a cleanness. If you do a good job, the numbers say so. You don't have to ask anyone or play politics..." - Koufax

by Zakolantern on Jul 13, 2005 9:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

are you kidding??

A team in pennant contention is not going to let a rookie be their 4th outfielder compared to two solid vets like Kielty and Payton.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Jul 14, 2005 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

reading the tea leaves

Forst seems to have said good stuff in the press about Fear Witasick and Kennedy. So I take it they are here to stay. I didn't see any quotes about Payton yet. I am holding out hope he is part of a bigger crazier trade.

by Apricot on Jul 13, 2005 11:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs