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2+2=?

If you were paying attention to the A's home page over the past couple of days, and you were good at math problems, you might have been able to piece together a dose of what is going on in the mind of Billy Beane right now.

On May 4, Billy Beane was interviewed about the current hitting problems on the team.  He said he expected the team to return to normal proven production eventually.  But he also said this:

Known for his penchant for statistical analysis, Beane doesn't need any formulas to figure out what's been missing for the A's these first five weeks or so of the season.

"We're not hitting for a lot of power right now, to say the least," Beane said.

Then, Mychael Urban follows up with the Reggie Sanders rumors today.

Sanders is not someone who will get anyone jumping for joy, especially at 37 years old.  But remember, this is a guy who has gone many places where winning has followed.  Not only that, he's got a career .488 slugging percentage.  Eric Chavez, the A's $66 million man, has a .495 career slugging percentage.  Granted, Sanders isn't exactly known as a prototypical A's hitter, but Beane himself says the A's are lacking for power.  And Urban makes a great point that once Crosby comes back, it would make for a nice L-R-L lineup all the way down.

Of course, I still think Austin Kearns would be a better choice because he's cheaper and has a lot more career to go.  But the cost for Kearns by comparison to Sanders would probably be astronomical.

My question is, how would many A's fans who've come to love the hustling Byrnes take to him being dealt?  And would it help the team the way it would be intended to?

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I'd take Kearns
if the Yankmee's DO go ahead and get Kearns, and we can get Kearns from the Pigmee's, I think we would get a lot better.

Sanders will get that slow transition start. He's slumping right now, and its more likely he will follow the Kotsay/Kendall first month or two slump then the mid-season trade play.

"Timeline? Time is not made of Lines! Time is made of Circles! Thats why Clocks are Round!"

by Zonis on May 6, 2005 12:49 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Please...
No Reggie. I just wouldn't be able to take that. He'd be the worst of Karros and Justice all in one package. Say it ain't so, Billy. Say it ain't so.

by HigherPie on May 6, 2005 1:06 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In other words...
We might as well trade Byrnes for Kevin Mitchell.

by HigherPie on May 6, 2005 1:14 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you'd have to throw in a truckload of donuts !!
.... to make sure Kevin Mitchell reported after the trade !!

by HerbWashington on May 6, 2005 8:51 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Byrnes is gone...
Just not for Sanders.  The Karros/Justice comparison is apt.  If Byrnes goes for Sanders, I'd have to radically alter the back my AN tee and hoodie.
"The sun was bad, but was it any worse than it's been the last 10,000 years? I'm gonna say no." -- Eric Byrnes

by FoolshGame22 on May 6, 2005 1:18 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's time to trade dotel
that's the big piece that can bring a useful bat.
throw in byrnes and one of the second baseman, plus maybe a prospect...

by xbhaskarx on May 6, 2005 1:31 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You better get Sweeney...
not Sanders, for all of that.  And, be prepared to pay for it, because KC ain't sending any cash our way.
"The sun was bad, but was it any worse than it's been the last 10,000 years? I'm gonna say no." -- Eric Byrnes

by FoolshGame22 on May 6, 2005 2:03 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Sweeney
Doesn't Sweeney makes atleast 3x Sanders?

by Zitos Child Bearing Hips on May 6, 2005 2:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree
It's a risk you have to take, but Dotel is the one who needs to go.  He (is probably the only one who) can fetch a young, impact player who we can keep and he's gone after year end anyway.  I really want Xavier Nady, but how about Dotel and Byrnes for Pedro Feliz?

by iceplant on May 6, 2005 9:40 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

pedro feliz?
damn what have you been smokin?

by kotsbots on May 6, 2005 10:25 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is that a bad deal?
Byrnes has little value, and he's expensive.  Dotel is gone after this year.  Feliz has two more years after this on a reasonable contract, I believe, and he is a legitimate RH power threat.  He's got a good arm.  It seems realistic to me, but I'd love to hear how whatever I smoked clouded my thinking.

by iceplant on May 6, 2005 10:44 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dotel ALONE is worth more than Feliz
let alone WITH Byrnes.  Dotel could land us a much bigger and stronger chip than Pedro Feliz who is good, but not great.  He's solid.  It's an issue of supply and demand.  There is a huge demand for closers right now, and even more for GREAT closers.  There are very few closers in supply, and only one pretty-damn-good/could be great closer on the market, and he's our own Doc Oc.  We can do MUCH better than Feliz.

It's like kicking a team while they're down.  How bad do they need the closer?  Extortion, really.  Or good business.  Either way....

Now, Matt Cain AND Feliz, and then you might be talking...

by noava22 on May 6, 2005 10:47 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pefect example:
The Mets.  The loveable losers of NY.  They needed a starter last year, really bad, and saw Victor Zambrano of Tampa Bay was available.  And they really wanted him.  Bad.  Thus, Tampa Bay traded their ace, a career .500 pitcher (at best), for....

drumroll please...

SCOTT KAZMIR, only one of the top 5 prospects in the game.

Two snares and a cymbal fall off a cliff

So yeah, no go on the Feliz for Dotel straight up, let alone throwing in Byrnes on that.

by noava22 on May 6, 2005 10:55 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok, I hope you are both right ...
I am not sure about the Zambrano for Kazmir analogy, only because that one was just stupid, but I get your point.  I wasn't thinking Dotel, who is a FA at the end of the season, could get us that much.  But if the Giants were willing to trade Feliz and Cain (or Foppert) for Dotel and Byrnes (they'd need a LF and we'd want to dump his salary), that would seem like a great deal to me.  I just can't see them leveraging their future like that.
 

by iceplant on May 6, 2005 11:44 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh boy...
"I just can't see them leveraging their future like that."

That's all the Giants ever do, leverage their future for the present.  That's why they sign free agents before that player's team can even get a chance to decline arbitration.  Sabean himself has publicly admitted that he has little interest in paying money for draft picks.  He claims that the money is better spent on free agents.  I can easily see Giants trade Feliz and Cain (or Foppert).  Remember the Ponson deal?

"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." Jack Handey

by davebenfremont on May 6, 2005 2:29 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not planning for the future now, are we?
With the whole Chavez/Tejada argument still going strong, many people keep pointing out that one reason why Chavez was kept was because he was younger, and they thought they had more productive years left in him.

That being said, if they traded for Sanders, it would be a short term fix for a long term problem - but technically, the long term problem doesn't really even exist. While Sanders could [could, not would] bring better power numbers to the A's for this year, most likely he won't be playing professionally for that much longer - do we really want to pick up his paycheck for the time being?

We are all counting on the players hitting better as a team still, right? Or are we so desperate for results NOW? Honestly, Sanders' numbers don't look that hot to me; Byrnes is certainly capable of putting out similar, or even better, stats. Making this trade would definitely upset fans, especially since Byrnes, as streaky and as unpredictable as he is, is quite an eccentric character. I think many fans have a love/hate relationship with him while feeling indifferent about other players.

Plus, two words: Learning. Curve.

by Melody on May 6, 2005 2:02 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Learning Curve is a major point
but so is the fact that Byrnes isn't in the long term plans to begin with.

I have checked up some splits of players who have switched leagues after playing in one for at least 5 years; so far, only Ray Durham and Vladimir Guerrero have bucked the trend of having a downgrade in production in their first month.

http://aslegacy.blogspot.com/2005/05/extra-crispy-redux.html

I plan on gathering more player stats for those who fit the profile.

http://www.aslegacy.blogspot.com

by Genaro on May 6, 2005 2:13 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Trading Byrnes...
That was a great analysis, you did a good job of putting everything together! I look forward to seeing more if you do decide to gather more stuff; stats are so fascinating, because they tell so much, yet they don't really tell you anything at all.

While we're talking about Byrnes, can you fill me in as to why the A's in general [and 50% of the fans] want Byrnes gone so badly?

by Melody on May 6, 2005 3:29 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well...
Half of the fans love his wavy blonde hair and the other half can't stand the way he runs semi tippy-toed.

How's that for analysis?:P

Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects. - Will Rogers

by McFood on May 6, 2005 7:28 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In Section 117
...we call him Twinkle Toes.  

by skigurl on May 6, 2005 10:19 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No on Sanders
too old, no future, a srike out machine

by china bob on May 6, 2005 2:50 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm a Byrnes fan
But he's obviously not staying. Reggie Sanders isn't exactly what I hope and dream for, but I guess he does fill a need, sort of. I just want to see Beane do something, before this season becomes a complete waste.

by jmoney on May 6, 2005 3:57 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like it
Some people are saying that he's not a long term solution. Well, he's only being brought in for now. His 4 million dollar salary (1.5 million more then byrnes) expires next year.

Some are swaying he is old: Well, the guy has kept it up all these years for one reason: He is still in incredible shape (still stealing 20 a year at 37..). His bat speed is not decreasing. He's a veteran, a real guy that we can put in the four spot to even out the lineup.

Another plus: He is substantially better than Byrnes at defense, and better than Kielty as well. He's really really solid in the outfield.

I really don't see how you can compare Sanders to Justice/Karros. Heres why:

  1. Sanders has not had a downward trend as he gets older.
  2. He can still play his position, and well
Those comparisons are not apt at all.
Conventional wisdom says 15 is too young to be an executive of a major sports franchise. Galileo and Einstein weren't conventional. Neither am i.

by ohad on May 6, 2005 5:12 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm with you on this
Question is whether we'd be giving up anything that would help us in the future.  If not, this seems like a no brainer.  He may not be what we would hope and dream for, but he may be what we can get.  And he looks pretty good compared to what we have.

by boilerdan on May 6, 2005 8:01 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Speak ohad
speak.....goodjob

by oakwin2004 on May 6, 2005 9:07 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No downward trend?
YR .OBP
01 .337
02 .324
03 .345
04 .315
05 .282

I know the idea of the trade would be to add some pop to the lineup and his slg is still strong - but that OBP (and avg for the traditionalists among us) is dismal.

His k:bb is an attrocious 19:5.

His gb/fb ratio has dropped from the .9-.97 range it has consistently stayed in for the past 4 years to .72 and despite that, he's on pace for a career high in GIDP (though that's statistically insignificant at this point).

And, for those among us who believe in such things - in five chances this year, he is yet to bring in a runner from third with less than 2 outs.

Finally, at his age, he is unlikely to improve over the season as health has to be a concern. Especially when you consider that this is a guy who has only been able to stay on the field for more than 505 at bats a single season in his career.

I just needed something new here, since the season had started ...

by devo on May 6, 2005 9:55 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't like it
   Comments such as "his bat speed is not decreasing.." bother me. How do you know that? Sanders, for all of his points is showing a downward trend. Devo points that out. But what hasn't been said is that he is in a lineup that takes the pressure off of him. We can't conclude he would be pitched the same way in Oakland as he is now. Sure, Barry Bonds improves at age 37 but we now know why. Do we really expect Sanders to suddenly make every one better? I suppose he would help but long term we need a younger bat next to Chavez that teams will have to contend with for years. Let's not foerget how nice it was when teams had to deal with Canseco and McGwire on a daily basis or more recently Tejada/Chavez.

by Gerard on May 6, 2005 11:08 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sanders
is still playing well. For at least a season he may be a better outfielder/batting option than some of our present outfielders. He's also good at hitting with RISP.

Has anyone noticed that the teams Sanders plays for get to the world series? obviously, it's not all due to him (perhaps he's got some playoff karma or something?). My guess is that he is also good with the other players in a variety of ways.

If he comes cheaply, why not?

By the way, how would Kearns (who is currently batting in the los .200 and is rarely healthy) help the club now? His "potential" (love that one!) for the future might be high -- but if all we are concerned right now is the future, we shouldn't be crying over the A's offensive woes.

by OaklandSi on May 6, 2005 5:19 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sanders is playing well?
.228 batting average, .282 obp.  
one home run in the last 16 games after hitting four in the first seven games.

yes, it's a small sample size, the same sample size as mediocre, heartless hitters such as chavez, durazo, etc.

by xbhaskarx on May 6, 2005 5:23 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2005 projections
Based on his track record and his 2005 starts, he is projected to hit @30 HR, drive in @80 runs, have @.230 average, and @.500 slugging percentage. he is recovering from an appendectomy in March, so if he stays healthy these numbers are likely to improve a bit. His defense is very solid and he still runs well. Plus, he is an experienced and smart player.

We're not talking superstar or anything even close. We're talking right-handed slugging and power that is affordable, for right now. We knew going into the season that the A's lacked offensive punch. The worse part about the current performance is that many of the younger players -- especially the pitchers -- are likely to have their confidence shaken, and also press too much, feeling that they have to be perfect. That also can lead to changes in technique and possible bad habits, which can take a long time to correct.

by OaklandSi on May 6, 2005 5:38 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

projections schmrojections
didn't the projections say that the A's would score more runs than the Angels?
The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.

by JJ on May 6, 2005 11:11 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sanders' 2005 projections
are based on his track record plus what he's done so far this season. And when you take into account that he's recovering from an appendectomy, as long as he stays healthy (which no one can forsee, but he's kept himself in good shape) he is likely to achieve those figures.

That,by the way, is how GMs figure out who to trade for: projections based on past performance.

by OaklandSi on May 6, 2005 11:32 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Projections from past performance....
is only ONE factor when Gm's make trade assessments...one of MANY.
Every team needs a few guys with big f*ckin' stones who ain't afraid to flash 'em - Huddy

by FabulousG on May 6, 2005 1:33 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if its a choice between reggie vs bonehead
...its really no contest- i'ii take reggie everytime. lets not embellish byrnes' worth here. reggie is 37, with 257 career homers who will play a steady but not spectacular LF/RF. one interesting note; reggie seems to hit better against righthanded pitching. reggie can be plunked into the 4 hole and let him swing away....i say do it.

 

The "Free Matt Watson from Sacramento" Committee is now taking new members. Membership is free.

by bigelephant on May 6, 2005 5:26 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

eric byrnes for hideki matsui
in byrnes the yanks will get the legitimate center fielder they need...

(please no one dispute this in case george is reading)

by xbhaskarx on May 6, 2005 5:43 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would take Matsui in a heartbeat
but can't believe the Yanks would be that crazy..

by OaklandSi on May 6, 2005 5:45 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this is just a wish, right?
You haven't actually seen this proposed anywhere, have you?

by OaklandSi on May 6, 2005 6:02 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

please provide the link:
where you heard that NY is entertaining the idea of trading matsui?
The "Free Matt Watson from Sacramento" Committee is now taking new members. Membership is free.

by bigelephant on May 6, 2005 5:56 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that comment
by xbhaskarx couldn't possibly have been serious. i think he's just kidding around
Conventional wisdom says 15 is too young to be an executive of a major sports franchise. Galileo and Einstein weren't conventional. Neither am i.

by ohad on May 6, 2005 6:45 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No! It's True!!!
They're gonna pay the rest of Sheff's salary and trade him AND Matsui for Byrnes.

by AlwaysSweatin on May 6, 2005 10:19 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

CHECK IT OUT
Byrnes for Matsui?
fax machine anthems, get yer damn hands up.

by eastbay on May 6, 2005 3:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't believe it
Steinbrenner likes Matsui too much, and is paying him more than we would pay.  If there is any truth to this, we would have to give up other players (Zito?).
"Put a Milo on him."
-Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on May 6, 2005 3:47 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

satirist
Didn't anybody notice that the author byline said: "By Steve Paulo, SATIRIST"

by Zitos Child Bearing Hips on May 8, 2005 9:13 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Time for a change
While you can't help but love Byrnes attitude, let's face it, he's just not very good at the plate or, spectacular body-beating plays aside, very good in the field either.

You just can't have a corner outfielder in the team who can't hit right handed pitching.  And I just can't stand to see Byrnes coming to the plate with two men on and two out any more.  You KNOW he's going to pop it up.

Time for a change.  Sanders?  Don't think so.  Why not give Charles Thomas an extended run to see what he can do first and get someone with more of an upside than Reggie in exchange for Byrnesie.  This year is about building the A's 2006 team, after all.....

by As Exile in Atlanta on May 6, 2005 6:18 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To quote Bill King...
"I am tired of all these nice guys. Give some S.O.B.s that can hit"

I don't know if he really said it, but he supposedly did during the nadir of the 1997 season.

2nd favorite team: WHOEVER IS PLAYING THE GIANTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by ConcordFanSince1968 on May 6, 2005 7:37 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Raiders
Bill King is used to broadcasting the Raiders.  They won.  The football season however, is only sixteen weeks long.  Road trips were at most, three days.  A cancer on a baseball team is murder.
Jim

by jarforcefatherofforce on May 6, 2005 11:35 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah
Reggie was a cancer on the A's, and the Yankees.  How many World Championships?  Billy Martin was an SOB manager. How many World Championships?  Curt Schilling is an SOB and a cancer in the clubhouse--who won the World Series last year?  Kobe Bryant is a cancer AND a distraction--how many Championships?
  I could go on and on...
The most important things in life are good friends and a strong bull pen. - Pitcher Bob Lemon, 1981

by Steve in Napa on May 6, 2005 2:23 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that quote...
is fantastic!

by LoveThemAs on May 6, 2005 11:45 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

*laugh*
Too bad Ty Cobb is dead! :P
"The bigger the game, the better he pitched."

by Catfish27 on May 6, 2005 11:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sanders=Dye
I think Sanders would give us a similar production that we got last year from Dye. Nothing spectacular, but at least decent...

by Alex on May 6, 2005 7:41 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And most of us couldn't wait.....
to get rid of the underachieving Dye...just say NO on the Sanders deal.
Every team needs a few guys with big f*ckin' stones who ain't afraid to flash 'em - Huddy

by FabulousG on May 6, 2005 1:36 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Im open to dealing Byrnes....
But please not for Reggie Sanders.  He is a guy you could have got as a FA a number of times....Hes a journeyman who is lucky in that he has been on playoff teams.  He doesnt solve any problems in my op.  If we want to get Kearns, fine, deal Byrnes, but I am not a fan of a move for Sanders.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on May 6, 2005 7:44 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i think the way it needs to be looked at is:
reggie fills a current need for the a's that byrnes can't. sanders and byrnes bring dissimilar skill sets to the team. plus, byrnes won't bring much back to the a's in value due to his poor start.

is reggie the best option? no. but he might be the only option billy is willing to plug his nose and take.  

The "Free Matt Watson from Sacramento" Committee is now taking new members. Membership is free.

by bigelephant on May 6, 2005 8:03 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hitting
If Byrnes would stop swinging at pitches at eye level and start driving the ball, we wouldn't be having this conversation.  Just like all the hitters, he is trying to do too much.  I think if Byrnes gets hot, he can carry the team.
Jim

by jarforcefatherofforce on May 6, 2005 11:39 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But....
Pitches at eye level are the best pitches to pop up. Don't you know this??

by AlwaysSweatin on May 6, 2005 12:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Enough's enough
Don't get me wrong, I'd hate to see Byrnsie go. I love the guy's all out 100% hustle and enthusiasm.

What frustrates me most is his fielding has taken a noticible step backwards this season and he's never been  a great fielder to start. The guy takes routes to fly balls like he's got ants in his pants. Two season's ago he was working hard on his fielding and he improved. I could be wrong, but if he's still working on his fielding, his coach needs to be fired. Yes, Byrnes can make the spectacular play every once in a while, but for every successful diving catch, there's 4 blown or nearly blown routine plays.

If another team has a righty slugger and wants Brynes, I trust Beane to make the right move.

December 6, 1982: The Red Sox trade 3B Carney Lansford, OF Garry Hancock, and minor leaguer Jerry King to Oakland for OF Tony Armas and C Jeff Newman.

by lansfords1 on May 6, 2005 7:46 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rent A Player
I am not sure about this. Only because I doubt it will make much difference for this season. The A's are realistically in a transition year anyway.

by RudiFan on May 6, 2005 8:09 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Byrnsie's not in their future anyway ...
... so I guess it's more of a question.

Do you want to see Byrnes for the next 5 months or Sanders for the next 5 months?

from me, there's not much excitement to either proposition.

for me, I'm more p'od that the A's are telling Calero NOT to through his sidearm slider.

No slider, turns Calero into Tim Worrell !!

by HerbWashington on May 6, 2005 8:13 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, but apparently,
the sidearm slider turns Calero into Kerry Wood.
Nico

by Nico on May 6, 2005 8:26 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so you're admitting BB got damaged goods
... in the Mulder trade !! ;}

by HerbWashington on May 6, 2005 8:46 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hopefully
That trade turns out to be all about Barton........hope hope.

by AlwaysSweatin on May 6, 2005 10:24 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't Write Off Haren After One Horrible Start!
Haren was the real key to that trade. He came major-league ready and he's shown signs of being a fantastic pitcher. Remember, this is his first season as a starter in the bigs.  

Barton is too far from the majors to make judgements on. Sure, he looks like the best hitting prospect since Carlos Pena ... but he might end up being the major leaguer Carols Pena is.

by Eck on May 6, 2005 11:23 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's true
And you're right. Im not writing Haren off. I think he has good stuff and is going to be a good number 2-3 in our rotation in the next couple years. I just hope that we can look at that trade and be like, "Wow, I can't believe the Cardinals gave up Daric Barton for Mark Mulder." (Wouldn't that be sweet?)

by AlwaysSweatin on May 6, 2005 1:34 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would take
Sanders over Byrnes, but I hope the A's don't trade for Sanders simply because I doubt the A's will make two deals for the same need--meaning if they acquire Sanders they will settle for a "slight upgrade" instead of truly solving the problem.

There are two kinds of problems--fundamental flaws and aberrations. The A's bullpen last year was a fundamental flaw, which is why Beane addressed it early. Kendall and Chavy's hitting problems will largely self-correct.

The A's RISP hitting woes are self-correcting aberrations that need to be ignored. The lack of a RH power threat in the middle of the order is a fundamental flaw, which needs to be addressed.

Getting Sanders would improve the lineup a tad, but fail to solve the problem, IMO. If I'm a righty pitcher, I'll pitch around Chavy or Durazo and pitch to Sanders. Sometimes he'll burn you, sometimes he'll strike out; I'll take my chances. But I wouldn't want to put another guy on base ahead of Paul Konerko, or Vernon Wells, or Pedro Feliz, too often.

Big difference, one move to make. My request: do nothing or else really solve the problem.

Nico

by Nico on May 6, 2005 8:20 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bingo Nico
Every team needs a few guys with big f*ckin' stones who ain't afraid to flash 'em - Huddy

by FabulousG on May 6, 2005 1:39 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sanders, Ginter
Looking at 3 year stats vs. LHP

Sanders solves nothing:

Ginter OBP .379, SLG .489, OPS .868
Sanders OBP .354, SLG .532, OPS .886
Byrnes OBP .362, SLG .542, OPS .904

The most important things in life are good friends and a strong bull pen. - Pitcher Bob Lemon, 1981

by Steve in Napa on May 6, 2005 2:30 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Byrnes vs. Sanders
I agree, the question is really byrnes for the next five months or Sanders, and you know what, we have all seen Reggie Sanders take plenty of ABs, Id rather watch byrnes and hope that those pop ups start leveling out a bit.  The A's are not this bad people. I think we have all forgotten that this is how we used to start most seasons....as far as our record. Lets let the offense cook, get a non-reggie sanders right handed bat if we can, and if we cant, we still have 4 guys capable of playing near 400 obp levels (not to mention any of our underachieving OFs), and Ill be damned if I dont see it in the end.

by SwisherSweet on May 6, 2005 8:28 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good points
I think what we need is a list of right handed corner outfielders in the last year of their contracts.  Then we can see if any of them would be a true fix or not.

by Vaillant on May 6, 2005 8:29 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oops
I meant to put this under Nico's post.

by Vaillant on May 6, 2005 8:29 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Another way to put it:
Acquiring Jermaine Dye (when he was a "Konerko") solved our problem and allowed us to take off. Playing Dye in 2004 (when he had become a "Sanders") made our lineup better than it is now, and he put up some decent numbers--but he didn't make our offense all that much better overall and Chavy led the league in walks.
Nico

by Nico on May 6, 2005 8:36 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Chavy leads the lead in walks...
that would be great. Why? Because a Sanders this year I think will hit better than a Dye last year. Besides, having Chavy walk is better than him K-ing or some crap like that.

Also, generally I think the Sanders deal would be good from a mental standpoint. We need a shakeup even if it is minimal. I think having a guy that can go deep at any time is reassuring. Yes, he'll K, but it's nice to know that we don't necessarily have to have a single, a walk, a groundout, and a sac-fly to score a run.

"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on May 6, 2005 8:56 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the A's don't know how to execute anything
... with 'sac' in it !!

sac-fly?

sac-bunt?

sac-up !!

by HerbWashington on May 6, 2005 8:58 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sac-ramento
where Thomas should be playing?
"Put a Milo on him."
-Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on May 6, 2005 9:29 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

however, Dye at Sanders prices
would have been easier to justify -- and perhaps re-sign for one more year. Yeah I know it seems like a bad argument in view of his current struggles, but that wasn't a given during the offseason. The A's might have been willing to sign him for one more year to hit behind Chavvy and play right field, if he had cost $4 million.

by OaklandSi on May 6, 2005 9:43 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eric Byrnes is not good
Getting an actual major league player who can field will be an upgrade all on its own.  Sanders isn't great either but at least he won't cost the team anything in the field.

Anyone who thinks the A's can get Austin Kearns for Byrnes needs to stop drinking the Kool-aid.

by Gaelan on May 6, 2005 8:50 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good point, I'll take some whiskey in my coffee ..
... the 'grandiose delusions' of trade talk somehow seem to assume that other GMs are lining up to drop their good young 'somehow undervalued' talent on BB's doorstep.

BTW, some have spoken of Aubrey Huff.

two things, one, doesn't Huff hit left-handed .. don't the A's enough of those 1B-OF-DH left-handed hitters>

two, isn't Huff a FA after this season anyway.

by HerbWashington on May 6, 2005 8:55 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Huff
It would make sense if he's at the end of his contract because he's been in the league for 5 years so his arbitration clock is probably pretty much up.  If we could be the team to save him from the confines of the "Trop", he just might want to stay with us once he sees our team's dynamic.  YES, he is left handed, and YES, he is 1B/OF, but...basically he'd take over left for Byrnes (any complaints?) and can be our 1B next year if DJ isn't ready to take over...

I'd personally rather have another YOUNG bat to help us not just this year but in years beyond, as I think Lew might make an effort to re-sign him, especially if we pay a king's ransom for him (Rheinecker, Byrnes, Baker/Rose?).

But that's just me.

Oh, and he's making $200,000 more than Reggie Sanders this year.

by noava22 on May 6, 2005 10:41 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if the strategy would be to trade and sign Huff ..
... then I'd be all in favor of that.

He can rake, there's no doubting that.

Maybe we can trade Jesus Colome for Huff ;}

I mean Luis Vizcaino, er, I mean Jairo Garcia !!

by HerbWashington on May 6, 2005 10:50 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think if Billy were to pay a ransom for someone
he'd go out of his way to make sure there was a pretty good shot they could re-sign him, both from the player's vantage point and from the owner's...

by noava22 on May 6, 2005 10:51 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Experience
If Beane is interested in Sanders it means the he is looking for experience, not young, long term, solutions.  He has make this type of trade before and it has helped.

Many of you think that Dan Johnson is the starting first baseman next year.  I don't think this is true or he would be here now getting major league experience.

Giving up sixteen runs to Texas was ugly to A's fans but the A's young pitchers need to handle that pressure.  Haron and Street will just get better with experience and we won't have many more of those outings.

Jim

by jarforcefatherofforce on May 6, 2005 11:54 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dotel....
I don't think Dotel will be dealt until July, but I think he is going to be the key to obtaining a HUGE bat. Any Byrnes trade is a mental shake up along with some reliable power.
"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on May 6, 2005 8:59 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

open roster spot
i think it is somewhat adventageous to always to have one spot open in the roster to be filled with an immediate problem solver like mclemore, justice, durham, etc.  with so many prospects coming up in the infield it makes sense to put someone like sanders in the outfield.  

nominateed for best quote of may:
"Half of the fans love his wavy blonde hair and the other half can't stand the way he runs semi tippy-toed." -mcfood

i heard it on the new 610 AM, hell is full of red sox fans.

by JMC on May 6, 2005 9:45 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't Trade Dotel
While I believe this is a rebuilding year, with Haren and Blanton following the same rookie learning curve we saw with Harden, it would be a mistake to write the year off so soon, given the vulnerabilities of the Angels. Say Guerrero or Colon gets hurt--then the A's would actually still have a chance at the division.

And because Street has not yet garnered the MLB experience or demonstrated that he will be an effective closer (a role which he hopefully ultimately fill with the A's), it's too early to trade Dotel. I say wait until the end of the trading season and assess where the team is at that juncture and then, if no longer in contention, deal Dotel.

Re: ByrnesBrain. He plays so "dumb" regularly missing the cutoff man, etc., he's a bad influence on young players. Therefore his loss is addition by subtraction. As a previous poster said, Sanders may not be a panacea, but at least--unlike Byrnes--he is a major league OF.

Bumblin Byrnesey is a Bum...Banish The Bum!

by reztips on May 6, 2005 9:50 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I heard an interview on KNBR yesterday ...
with Brian Sabean.  He was asked if the Giants had spoken to Beane about Dotel.  He danced around the question, but he intimated that yes, they had, and even stated that any GM with a proven closer "is demanding a king's ransom" for him right now.  He also did not confirm or deny if they are trying to work something out with the A's.  Later in the interview, when asked about Matt Cain, Jerome Williams and Jesse Foppert, he said the Giants need PROVEN ML pitching, and that is what they are looking to trade for.  Could Byrnes and Dotel for Pedro Feliz be possible?  He can play left, first base, even SS if Scoots slumps and Crosby doesn't come back for awhile.  He has a potent RH bat.  

by iceplant on May 6, 2005 9:56 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Feliz
Feliz is a low obp utility player that didnt catch fire till a year or so ago, and had a career high in OBP last year (.305, the first time he broke .300)

I dont want Feliz, especialy for that high a price. Feliz has 2 more years left on his contract counting this year anyways.

If you trade Dotel to San Fransisco, you're going to be asking for Matt Cain, and maybe more.

"Timeline? Time is not made of Lines! Time is made of Circles! Thats why Clocks are Round!"

by Zonis on May 6, 2005 10:26 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Word
Word
The most important things in life are good friends and a strong bull pen. - Pitcher Bob Lemon, 1981

by Steve in Napa on May 6, 2005 2:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can the A's contend
Before BB makes a move, I think he is going to have to decide whether he thinks the team has a legitimate chance to contend this season.  He has quite a few players whose future with the team is questionable, Dotel, Byrnes, Durazo, a 2B.

I think BB would do best to wait a little longer and see if the offense can turn it around.  If the team can contend, then we may be able to bring in/rent a power hitting corner outfielder like Wells or Huff.  If 2006 is the goal, then BB would be better off to trade Dotel to a contending team in need of a closer (SF, CHC, FLA maybe, but the postseason outlook for SF and CHC is not necessarily any better than the A's) and also try to move Durazo and Byrnes.

It is way too early to throw in the towel on 2005.  Gotta give the boys a little more time to try and get back on the right track.

by barkeville on May 6, 2005 10:00 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tonight
Two ex's of she-who-is-not-to-be-named, head-to-head. I wonder who she's rooting for?
"Look what we did!"

by ArakSOT on May 6, 2005 10:24 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey Blez,
Did you get my e-mail last night?
Lord Vader... ...yesss massster? ...RISE!!!

by Force on May 6, 2005 10:33 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

another problem with trading Dotel
Calero has issues now with the elbow, Cruz could get well quick, but still needs time in lower leverage situations.  Duke and Rincon are good in the right roles, Street is learning on the job, Garcia is going to be great somday... but isn't yet, Mabeus is struggling down in AAA.

You move Dotel, and suddenly a good pen looks vulnerable.  If pen depth is part of this team's strength, what we can trade from, better to use that depth to pump up everybody's stats and make everybody look better.

Last year, even with Dotel being shaky, he allowed the rest of the pen to settle in to better roles and performance.  

Until we are sure that the pen is deep enough without Dotel, we can't risk letting everyone's value diminish through overexposure.

That said:  if we get a legit stud in return, then we do it.

by jakarta on May 6, 2005 10:38 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bullpen = Potential Problem
I agree that trading Dotel worsens our bullpen, but bullpens are the last piece in building a championship club.  First, you need a good core of hitters (at least 3).  Second, you need 3 good starting pitchers.  Third, you need, a closer.  Fourth, you need decent 4th and 5th starters.  Fifth, you need a decent rest of the lineup (almost replacement players).  Sixth, you need a deep bullpen.

Heck, I'd even send down Cruz to AAA and make him a starter again.  If he's just a reliever, the trade with ATL looks absolutely terrible (to date).

by jubjub on May 6, 2005 10:47 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

umm
so who closes if we dime dotel?

by oakwin2004 on May 6, 2005 10:53 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anyone
Closer=Overrated.  Teams going into the 9th with a 1-run lead win 90% of their games anyways.  Closing is overated.  Put Duke there.    

by jubjub on May 6, 2005 10:56 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so
mariano Rivera's contribution to the yanks is overrated..

by oakwin2004 on May 6, 2005 10:59 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes
Anything having to do with the Yanks is overrated when you spend $200MM+ on payroll.  The individual pieces become meaningless.  

I do think Rivera is a great player, but giving up Dotel who has just over a year of closing under his belt (and most of it with mediocre results) is not like losing the King of Cutters.

by jubjub on May 6, 2005 11:02 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so
when the angels won the series a few years back with that stout pen? that was a fluke? Dotel will not get traded before street is ready...simple as that? so what about eck, was he overrated as well? all of baseball believes closer's are an integral part of winning..closing by committee and throwing out scrubs like matt herges doesn't work..there's a mentality that is required for closer's..along with the need for electric stuff...show me a successful team that's won it without a closer?

by oakwin2004 on May 6, 2005 11:09 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Angels=Fluke
You can't possibly think that the Angels won simply because they had a strong bullpen.  They were hugely lucky.  That's what the playoffs are - luck.  They were like the 6th best team in the playoffs that year.  Luck, plain and simple.  

And yes, I would rather have a strong bullpen than a weak one, but that doesn't mean it's where you expend disproportionate resources.  When building a club, the bullpen should be one the last pieces because it's the easiest to assemble and the most interchangeable (think about how our bullpen has changed over the last 5 years).  I understand why we have a good bullpen this year to relieve pressue on the starting pitching, but if you could use a strength to shore up a weakness and the weak area is more highly correlated to winning than the strong one, you do it every time.  

And yes, I agree that Dotel probably won't be moved until Street is ready, but that doesn't mean I don't think it SHOULD happen.

by jubjub on May 6, 2005 11:15 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Angels won in 2002 ...
... because they cheated the MLB roster rules and got K-Rod onto the playoff roster, even though, he made his debut on Sept. 15 that season.

Only players on ML roster prior to Sept. 1 are eligible for playoffs.

if K-Rod -- and his baffling, dazzling slider -- had been in the bigs longer, he would've been more 'known' and less of an 'X' factor that season.

now obviously, the Angels had to get to the point in the season whereby they could cheat.

Ironically and allegedly, A's insiders wanted to do the same thing with Street last season, bring him up as a late-season 'X' factor ala K-Rod.

I do not know if the A's would've attempted to cheat the roster rules by trying to slip Street on to the playoff roster after the deadline had passed.

by HerbWashington on May 6, 2005 11:33 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well
I'm not going to argue for the Angels..lol..so I'll agree they were lucky. But BB has been quoted as saying he had the Angel's in mind when he built this year's bullpen. I was one who wondered what good a pen would do us if we were down 3 or 4 runs early, due to our young staff. Add are pathetic offense to the equation, and our pen becomes useless.

These past few games ahve just magnified by displeasure with the off season trades. It's painful losing all-stars year after year, and it's painful hearing gammons saying " the great tim hudson" and Tejada " one of the top player's in the game. And the reason we have to use these computerized stats, because the team has a small budget. Man I hope we win tonight. :0

by oakwin2004 on May 6, 2005 12:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and
why do teams spend millions of bucks on closer's if their overrated?

by oakwin2004 on May 6, 2005 11:01 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow
So, your logic is that because GMs that have little or zero analytical education make certain decisions consistently, they're the right decisions?  Wow.  Are you Kenny Williams?

by jubjub on May 6, 2005 11:04 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd take 32
gm's and their philosohies over a guy who calls himself jubjub...what's your baseball background?

by oakwin2004 on May 6, 2005 11:10 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

First Person
First Person who gets the jubjub reference wins...nothing.

My baseball background is like most of the people on here - high school and American Legion followed by years of passionately following MLB.  But, my secret weapon is the 50 additional IQ points I have over the smartest GM.

by jubjub on May 6, 2005 11:22 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

JubJub
is Homer's sister-in-law's iguana

by Eck on May 6, 2005 11:29 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ding Ding Ding
We have a winner.  Here's your prize.

by jubjub on May 6, 2005 11:35 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok
i have aclient and have 2 go..but we'll continue this later..i agree that gm's follow the  leader often..but i just don't agree that closer's are the least important cog in  a winning team..that's all...

by oakwin2004 on May 6, 2005 11:13 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

b/c
they're overrated.

by Sharon on May 6, 2005 11:04 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Chaddy B
and his frisbee of a slurve

by noava22 on May 6, 2005 10:56 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dotel
If he is traded it won't be until Bradford is back.

by Larry E on May 6, 2005 1:44 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Future vs. Now
Here's what I see: a team that cannot win anything.  Not the world series.  Not a wild card game.  Not even the division.  That's our current roster.  It's the worst since 1998.  Our pitching has kept us around .500, but it will worsen as Haren, Blanton, and Saarloos all struggle with learning to pitch in the majors.  The hitting has to get better down the road, but the two will cancel out and we're a .500 team.

That said, I never thought this team was built for 2005.  I think we need to use some of our chips to keep getting prospects.  Right now, the most valuable chip we have is Dotel.  Closers are going down left and right and Dotel  is worth a ton right now.  Might not be that way in July when Urbina and Percival are available.

So, do you trade Dotel for a ML veteran to help stabilize this club or do you trade him for a prospect with huge upside?  I would vote for the latter.  I'd like to see us trade Dotel for Jeremy Hermida.  He's doing well in AA and could use another year in the minors, but will be ready next year.  Can you say LF?  Trade Byrnes and/or Thomas for anything and put Watson in RF until Swisher heals.  I'm not saying sell off the whole team, but use some of chips to get better for 2006 and beyond.  This team cannot win and I'm sure Billy is realizing it.  

by jubjub on May 6, 2005 10:39 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Amen to that ...
I think you are exactly right, and people are not considering the risk of Dotel's value diminishing when more closers are available, namely Urbina and/or Percival.  He may also reduce his own value by faltering some or alot.  Now is the time, but BB might not have to concede the season at all.  Who is to say that trading Dotel and Byrnes for present AND future impact players isn't possible?  That whoever he obtains may more than outweigh the loss for us now.  Right now, Dotel is pitching great but he's not helping us much cause we can't even get him a late inning lead.  Maybe we'll end up with a weaker bullpen, but maybe not.  I think Dotel's value is much higher to other teams than it is to this A's team.

by iceplant on May 6, 2005 12:05 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I concur
obviously this team can't win it all...so do we bring up our prospects(watson, dj) and trade off vets like dotel and durazo? or do we trade byrnes for a stop gap, like sander's, and keep hatte and durazo, even though their gone next year, and try and hover around .500 What's upsetting is we like durazo, he's a good player, but we can't keep him because of the budget once again. it's a vicious cycle.

by oakwin2004 on May 6, 2005 12:21 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Say....
Maybe we could trade Byrnes for Cameron?  I wonder if anyone has thought of that?  Maybe I'll start a new diary...
"Put a Milo on him."
-Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on May 6, 2005 10:45 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL !!
... yeah, Cameron ... he's injured, but he's the true 'Holy Grail' ... Not Durazo, not Carlos Pena, not Ted Lilly.

Cameron's the Grail ;}

by HerbWashington on May 6, 2005 10:48 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dotel Is The Blue Chip
No doubt that Dotel is the A's most valuable commodity trade wise. I think Beane should wait until at least the All-Star break before he does anything with him.

I would prefer if Dotel is dealt that we get some good young prospects in return. The A's are not a team that is in the "Rent-A-Player" mode. Play as many kids as possible and take our lumps now.

by RudiFan on May 6, 2005 10:47 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Plus all of this trade talk involves ...
... ONLY TWO-team trades.

we all know, BB specializes in the 3-team, 4-team, 5-team, 3-division ... half the league WHOPPER of a deal.

Maybe he'll finagle something where we end up with Henry Aaron to play LF and provide 'some pop' from the #4 hole in the lineup !!

by HerbWashington on May 6, 2005 10:53 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

REALITY CHECK ALERT
REALITY CHECK ALERT - REALITY CHECK ALERT - REALITY CHECK ALERT - REALITY CHECK ALERT - REALITY CHECK ALERT - REALITY CHECK ALERT -

The 2005 A's are going to battle this year, but this is not the year for a rental player (Sanders).  This is a year to load up for 2006 - 2010.  It will take a miracle to win the West this year.

Dotel & Zito (and throw-ins like E. Byrnes, Durazo, Hatteberg, etc...) will be shipped off before the deadline for some future talent - primarily young power.  

Plus, it's just a matter of time before Beane & Company determine the formula for clutch hitting:  BA + Hits + 2 Outs + RISP - SSS = Clutch Hitting (or something like that)

Let's Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on May 6, 2005 11:19 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

agreed
pragmatism wins the day.

by AlwaysSweatin on May 6, 2005 12:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i really hope beane doesn't do this
here's why the sanders trade makes no sense:
  1. as jubjub and now colorado fan remind us, this team probably won't win a playoff series and almost certainly won't win a world series.  that's with or without sanders.
  2. sanders helps the team only this year.  given #1: who cares.  it's a rebuilding year, so let's rebuild.
  3. he may not even help this year.  he's hitting .228 with a .282 obp and one home run in the last 16 games.  if he was already on this team, he would be considered part of the problem.
  4. he's in decline: he's 37, devo provides the downward trend in obp numbers above.
  5. byrnes and kielty, on the other hand, are young. kielty is hitting better already (i won't rub that in too much, kielty bashers) and byrnes is a streaky guy who at the very least is an extremely useful #4 outfielder, pinch hitter/runner, occassional dh.  who's to say sanders would outperform either of them this year?
  6. if the a's are going to get a non-moneyball player, why not pay more for someone like feliz (if that's a possibility) who is younger and will help beyond this season.
  7. trading dotel is the best idea.  surely dotel, byrnes, a 2b, and prospects could get us a nice bat (younger and more long term).  if it can't, screw it, there's no need to make a trade.  we all know (well almost all of us know) that closers are overrated.  if calero can't do it, make street the closer.  if he's going to be around long term and this is a rebuilding year, he should be closing by the end of the summer either way.
i'd rather keep what we have than add sanders.  i'll take 26-30 year olds hitting .200 over a 37 year old hitting .220

as nico said above: "do nothing or else really solve the problem."

by xbhaskarx on May 6, 2005 12:01 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

BUT...
I agree with much of what you said, that was a good post.

BUT,

payroll is an issue with the A's, figuring out how to build the time continues to have much to do with payroll.  

I don't believe that the A's would be wise to ever appear to punt a season, they can't afford any big drop in attendance.  The A's don't get much money from their local broadcasting deals, in other words they have a smaller amount of stable income than many other teams.  They need to generate revenue through their gate.

They have to appear to be in the running this year, even if it is just as an 83 win team.  

Or to put it another way, even if BB determines at some point that it is time to punt on this year's team, he can't afford to have it look like he is knowingly putting a white flag team on the field.

Dropping $7 million in payroll but losing more than that at the gate is bad long term business, especially since there is always a carryover from one year's record to the next year's ticket sales.

by jakarta on May 6, 2005 1:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Calero or Street or whoever
Last our bullpen was a mess because once Rhodes proved he couldn't close, the job was up for grabs every night and the bullpen pitchers did not like becoming a grab bag.  Since the one bright spot this year so far has been the bullpen, I hate to mess with it this early in the season.  Nothing would take the heart out of our young pitching staff faster, in my opinion, than to think they were going to get "Hudsoned" at every outing.  I agree that Dotel is our most valuable trading commodity, but can we really spare him?  Hate to see young Street thrown into the pressure cooker so soon.  
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

by kkdaz on May 6, 2005 1:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

See above
"Last year"
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

by kkdaz on May 6, 2005 1:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sanders may be a rental
but he gives the team exactly what they need right now.  RH power in the middle of the lineup.  If you they don't add that factor soon, they may as well have a full fire sale and give up on 2005.  But I don't think new owners are going to want to do that.

by boilerdan on May 6, 2005 12:06 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the value of youth
People rightly point out that Sanders wouldn't be part of the future of this team, but I don't think Byrnes or Feliz would be either. There are two reasons to prefer younger players:
  1. Upside - hitters peak around 27, so if you have a player younger than that who is already producing, you can usually expect him to improve.
  2. Cost - players are very cheap in their first 3 years, and often still a good value in their 4th-6th years, relative to older players at the same level of production.
Neither of these applies to either Byrnes or Feliz. Feliz is 30, has never been a full-time player or put up an OBP better than .305, and is making $2.4 million this year and $3.6 million next year. He has power, but is vulnerable to breaking pitches. He also plays several positions - all of them badly. Byrnes is 29, makes $2.2 million this year, and will probably be in the $3-4 million range if he goes to arbitration next year. He has had some hot streaks, but on the whole has failed to improve his game, either at the plate or in the field. We've probably seen the best he has to offer, and it was fine when he was playing for the league minimum, but he's just not a player worth paying real money for.

by andeux on May 6, 2005 12:34 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not terribly attached
to Byrnes at this point, but I'd rather have him than Sanders.  We do need a power bat, though.  I trust Billy to do something completely unexpected and useful.
Forty isn't old -- for a tree.

by atomopawn on May 6, 2005 1:31 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A name to throw out there....................
Jason Bay

Does anyone out there in AN know Jason Bay's contract situation with Pittsburgh?  Most of my friends at work who follow the Giants or Dodgers tell me he is a young right handed hitter that fits are bill.  I don't know much about the NL though I must admit.  The same Dodger fan at work said he had heard something about a three team deal involving the A's, dodgers and Reds.  Anyone heard this?

A's send Ginter to Dodgers

Dodgers send Alvarez to reds

Reds send Mo Pena to the A's

This has to be crazy.  I have tried and can't find anything on this.  I have tried Pro sports daily (rummors) with no luck so far.  

My extra two cents;  While not wanting in anyway to help the Giants.  I would take Pedro Feliz over Sanders.  I think he's 30 but, the guy can hit for power and is versatile.  Every game I have gone to in the Bay Bridge series over the past few years he kills us.  That said, if we could get Austin Kearns, he sounds from the posts I have read like the guy most like the A's style.  I know it's early but I think we could use a little shake up and add some Right Handed POP.

We should consider ourselves lucky that we aren't further back then we are at this time.  All things considered it could be worse.  

by Mike Heath on May 6, 2005 1:43 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jason Bay
He won the rookie of the year last year for the Pirates and he is a cornerstone of there franchise. No way they trade him. Though we could always use more Canadians on the team.

by Larry E on May 6, 2005 1:52 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd love Jason Bay
or hell, even Wily Mo.  Don't know where you heard the Dodgers one, but, if true...WOW

...damn.

by noava22 on May 6, 2005 2:01 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah
And while we're at it let's trade Marco Scutaro for Miguel Cabrera
The most important things in life are good friends and a strong bull pen. - Pitcher Bob Lemon, 1981

by Steve in Napa on May 6, 2005 2:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Chavez and Durazo
are both "power bats," theoretically.  Give me a contact hitter like Scutaro (or, supposedly, Kendall) anytime there's a guy on third.  The power guys just strike out on their third swing for the fence.
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

by kkdaz on May 6, 2005 1:44 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Byrnes
If you are going to trade him then why not wait until he goes on one of his hot streaks.

by Larry E on May 6, 2005 1:54 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Enough Dotel trade talks
Dotel is the best we got in the pen.  Street is a child, he will not be able to close until he matures a little bit... closing in the minors is much different than in the majors.  With Dotel closing, Street and Calero setting up, and Cruz, Yabu, eventually Bradford, and Duke in the middle, we have one of the best pens in baseball.  

We have decent bats right now, they just aren't getting the job done.  We all need to have some patience.  The pitching, aside from last game, has kept us in every game this season.  Give Chavvy a little more time (he's never been that good in April), Durazo is getting it together, Hatteberg is too, and we will be scoring the 4-6 runs per game necessary to win with our pitching.
 

by dolemite on May 6, 2005 1:56 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the 2 major questions......and answers
THE QUESTIONS: 1. Is this team realistically going to contend this year? 2. When is the best time to makeover the offense like the pitching staff was madeover this past offseason? THE ANSWERS: 1. No 2. When our trade assets reach peak value. For Dotel,probably at the deadline or slightly sooner. For Byrnes,when he's hitting better (hopefully around the same time). For any other veterans that aren't in our plans for the future: Whenever a team in need comes calling with a decent package of young player(s). All of the above will be moved this season and not likely for the purpose of contending this year. Young players will be acquired. The offense will be rebuilt.
Every team needs a few guys with big f*ckin' stones who ain't afraid to flash 'em - Huddy

by FabulousG on May 6, 2005 1:57 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A little unrelated but...
Nash just won the NBA MVP; does anyone think he would have won if he were black?  Rediculous, he's like the 4th best player on his own team.  Everyone likes to see a white guy play basketball.

by dolemite on May 6, 2005 2:06 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

come on
it was between shaq and nash regardless of race.  personally i'd have gone with shaq (i pretty much hate both of them), but it's not like nash is some way out there choice...

by xbhaskarx on May 6, 2005 5:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

dolemite
you are listening too much to the liberal media.  Nash helped his new team improve the most, regardless of white or black.  Shaq came a close second because he helped his new team improve second most.  stop playing the racism card.
"the infrared beam's on the mac, I put green on yo' head like a Oakland A's hat" - Tony Yayo, 'My Toy Soldier', from new 50 Cent album

by Utah on May 6, 2005 2:14 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not racism card
I know the improved the most nonsense, but Shaq clearly was the MOST VALUABLE to his team.  Nash's team would have improved with lots of different players at point, Amare's going to keep improving for several more years as he becomes a superstar in this league.  Shaq has made every team he's been on an immediate championship contender.  And look at the Lakers without him.  The Mavs are just as good as they were last year without Nash.  

by dolemite on May 6, 2005 2:20 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And P.S.
It's been well documented that the liberal media has turned quite conservative in the last decade.

by dolemite on May 6, 2005 2:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

now that's
an oxymoron....Nash is dope so is shaq...it's subjective..I would have voted for stevie nash.

by oakwin2004 on May 6, 2005 2:57 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But Shaq
had a down year.  Nash had a career year.  If I'm not mistaken Nash set the all time record for assists.  
  And, Shaq had Dwayne Wade--who compliments him much better than Kobe ever did.
The most important things in life are good friends and a strong bull pen. - Pitcher Bob Lemon, 1981

by Steve in Napa on May 6, 2005 2:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Racism Card???
How about the anti-Canadian card!!!

by Larry E on May 6, 2005 3:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dodgers
The Dodgers are desperate for a 3rd baseman now that Valentin is out.  I can easily imagine BB inserting himself into a deal to make a 3 way, thereby netting the player he needs/wants.
  Can anybody think of a possible 3 team deal involving the A's, Dodgers, and Team C?
"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." Jack Handey

by davebenfremont on May 6, 2005 2:36 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes
This one is outrageous but it works:
(when Eric Gagne returns to the Dodgers)

A's send Eric Chavez to Dodgers
Dodgers send Yhency Brazoban, Edwin Jackson and Jayson Werth to the Reds
The Reds send Wily Mo Pena, Ryan Freel and Ryan Wagner to the A's

The most important things in life are good friends and a strong bull pen. - Pitcher Bob Lemon, 1981

by Steve in Napa on May 6, 2005 2:48 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not sure why the reds would do this
Pena is much better than Werth.
Wagner isn't quite as productive as Brazoban yet but should get there. Given his superior slider he could eventually surpass YB.
Freel is one of the best super utility guys around

Seems like a big shakeup just to get a talented AAA pitcher struggling greatly with command issues.

by Zitos Child Bearing Hips on May 8, 2005 9:24 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For crying out loud.
Billy Beane is not going to trade Eric Byrnes for Reggie Sanders.

They're roughly comparable in production, and we already have a glut of outfielders as it is.  In case you haven't noticed Byrnes hasn't exactly been given a starter's playing time.

by Inquisitor on May 6, 2005 3:44 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

aubrey huff
I asked about it yesterday and got no response.  what about a 3-teamer in which we give dotel, byrnes and one of the middle infielders and get huff and a reliever or minor league lefty???

by Mark Brinda on May 6, 2005 4:05 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like Huff too
But Tampa isn't one of the teams desperate for a closer.  Danys Baez has been good for them.  That said, Huff is their best player--it would take a Chavez or a Crosby plus to get their attention.
The most important things in life are good friends and a strong bull pen. - Pitcher Bob Lemon, 1981

by Steve in Napa on May 6, 2005 4:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

3 team deal
it doesn't matter that the d-rays don't need a closer.  someone who does can ship them what they do need (which is just about everything).

by Mark Brinda on May 6, 2005 4:17 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No on Sanders!
Unlike some ppl, I don't think Byrnes' value has decreased. He's under a micorscope here, and everything he does is magnified. Other teams don't see what we see; they see the spectacular catches he sacrifices his body to make like the highlight on Sports Center a few games ago.

He's still seen as a very popular player w/ a big upside and we better get more than Reggie Sanders if we deal him.

Vote Miggy to the All-star game. Make Jeter a has-been.

by sf drift king on May 6, 2005 4:31 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Byrnes
Byrnes may not be under the microscope as much by the average fun as he is with the A's fans. But other GMs know Captain America is not much of a ball player. Don't expect a ransom in return for a guy who should be a 4th OF.

by Zitos Child Bearing Hips on May 8, 2005 9:28 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what's with the sick austin kearns obsession?
half this site, including blez, seem obsessed with austin kearns whenever there are trade rumors.  i'm just really not seeing the reasoning behind that.  as much as i don't want sanders here, at least he's declining in his mid 30s.

kearns:

avg
.315
.264
.230
.208

obp
.407
.364
.321
.303

slg
.500
.455
.419
.364

by xbhaskarx on May 6, 2005 6:01 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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