Bottoming Out

Our Offensive Commitment

We need to change our philosophy from an "OBP empesis" hitter to SLG and AVG. AVG value/price may have dropped with the OBP hike in price.

"Pinata's promote violence against flamboyant animals"

by Zonis on May 25, 2005 9:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

before I say anything meaningful

I have to say that I LOVE your quote

GO OAKLAND!!!

by LoveThemAs on May 25, 2005 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I agree that alot of bad things have happened, some like injuries that are clearly no-one's fault. But I don't get Macha. What's he doing? Almost nothing. The fact that the A's are at the bottom in so many categories, the high errors and the still anemic hitting reflect on the manager. And his response is to barely jigger the batting order or the positions. This alone sends the wrong message.

Frantic - I sometimes wish it was only about baseball . .

by frantic on May 25, 2005 9:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

I was a bit after his time, but from what I've read, we need a guy like Billy Martin. Well, Martin minus the drinking and fighting. Guys like Macha and Howe have been too calm and quiet. We need a motivator.

by JLaff on May 26, 2005 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I could..

...be way off base here, but I doubt that Macha does much of anything without talking to Beane first. Somehow I see them talking on a regular basis - why wouldn't they - and, if so, this becomes a joint effort. BB will make his own mind up on player deals, but I believe he does talk to Macha about what is happening on the field. Bottom line: Big changes are coming, but I don't see Macha as one of them.

by doubleplayer on May 26, 2005 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"These are the times that try

men's souls." Since I saw a lot of Shakespeare quotes during the debacle (I mean game), I thought I would throw in one of my own.

Though surely if the bard were an A's fine, he would have included all of our female fans, whose souls are also being tried.

I can't really add to Blez's comments. I didn't expect us to hit the playoffs this year,,,,but when the Angels started out so weak I hoped it might turn out to be a weak division, and perhaps,,,,,
I could go on, but I won't. I'll just drink a little more wine.

PS: for all you English lit and American History majors, yes I know that it was Thomas Paine and not our beloved William that wrote these lines. I just wanted to see how many people read the whole post.

by alamedaman on May 25, 2005 9:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

OK so I was saying

I feel sick, too. One consolation: we can only go up from here. Even if we stay at the bottom for a while, we'll go up eventually.

The injured will heal.

The sucky will un-suck or else be traded.

Just don't give up hope! Our team needs us.

GO OAKLAND!!!

by LoveThemAs on May 25, 2005 10:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

You put it well, Blez

"Beane knew everything needed to break right for this team to be competitive." That is true, and it does NOT mean Beane "knew the A's wouldn't be competitive this year."

I get so irritated with the notion that Beane somehow lied, or was naive, or that fans were in any way naive for the hope that things might "break right"--as they have for the Whitesox and Orioles.

This team, built more for '06 and '07 than '05, needed above-average health and decent productivity from the players with the best career numbers, and it got exactly the opposite.

Not because "smart people" (i.e., cynical and chronically negative people) knew it all along, but because sometimes you get a thunderstorm the very year you can't retile the roof.

It's incredibly frustrating, but baseball is consummately unpredicable--and that's why the games are worth watching. Youneverknow what you're going to see, and if you leave youneverknow what you're going to miss.

The A's will probably get back in this thing. Because they're good enough? No, because it's the last thing I expect.

Nico

by Nico on May 25, 2005 10:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

fair enough...

I agree with you on the whole Beane thing. I've been shocked at the number of people who are blaming all of this on Beane and such. These things happen, and we just have to hope they can gel as a team and turn this thing around. Get some confidence back.

A's fan for life!!!

by ZeroIndulgence on May 25, 2005 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

People weren't

naive who thought "things might break right" at the beginning of the season ..... however people are naive who insist things will turn around anytime soon.
Nico, I know you're frustrated ... I am too. But you gotta admit some of the AN'ers saw this coming loooooong before the "more positive" posters.
I think it foolish to blame Beane as well, but this team has gone from bad to just flat out embarassing. This is one of the worst baseball teams (ok -- simply measuring the season up to this point) in recent memory.
In any league.
At any level.

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on May 25, 2005 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's one thing

not to be surprised that the A's would struggle and not contend, but it's another to "know" it. It was not knowable; those who understand baseball more make "all-knowing" predictions less. Maybe the A's had a 1 in 5 chance: .200 hitters get hits all the time. (Even Kendall!)

I will always maintain that if the A's had enjoyed average health, they would have (roughly) split their first 40 games. And that's WITH Kendall and Chavy tanking--a normal "who knew?" kind of quirk.

The trades stopped the A's from being good enough to go 25-15. Injuries stopped them from being from being good enough to go 20-20. And 20-20 would have given the A's a pretty bright outlook for making a run, and having some fun, a la 1999.

Nico

by Nico on May 25, 2005 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and for the record,

I've been watching the A's since 1980, and I'd be hard pressed to name 5 stretches where I recall the A's playing worse.

This is not pretty.

Nico

by Nico on May 25, 2005 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreeing to some extent with Vacafan

It wasn't naive to hope that things might break right, but it was naive to expect that they would do so. This admission that we needed everything to break right this season in order to be competitive is a relatively new admission--I believe the stance during the offseason was that we needed everything to break right to win the division, but we almost certainly would be competitive. And that was perhaps a little naive.

I know, I know. I'm a cynical, smartass, pain-in-the-ass, chronically negative, person.
Irritating my peers since 1977.

by rubin sierra on May 25, 2005 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the injuries are the wild card

No one expected the team to disintegrate physically. The debate was over whether the new folk would play well, whether Kendall would switch quickly, whether Zito and Harden would pitch to their potential, whether Kotsay, Ruby and Hatty would hold on to their good play from last year.

People who think the team would have been this bad without the key injuries really need to present an argument for that before gloating.

And for the record, I predicted a long time ago that the season would be unpredictable. :)

by Apricot on May 25, 2005 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

my feelings about the situation

has all to do with the chemistry thats gone; we all know even the Big Three suffered from lack of run support, and these starters have had it worse for the most part. Plus, what we have in the pitchers from those trades isn't all THAT bad - but what we lost was a key part of the team chemistry; the leadership; the swagger.

37 errors, leading the league??? This is the biggest surprise to me. Where does the bad outfield play come from? Scutaro last year had a .998 fielding percentage, so I dont see a major trade off defensively not having Crosby in there. Hatteberg, Chavez... no excuses for those guys.

and Base Running! Offense and defense; do the A's need a philosophy on base-running, or can they just DO IT; I can't stand it when everyone knows the runner is going but our pitcher. We can't steal, we leave RISP, ... how about a squeeze bunt, for old times sake?

The only blame I put on Macha is that he needs to show confidence and where he stands with the lineup. "who's playing 2nd today? who's in left field today? why not start Melhuse?" The lack of chemistry stems from a lot of guys not knowing where they stand on the team, and I'm positive thats got to put stress on what is normally a stress-free, fun-loving clubhouse. I think Beane needs to make some drastic moves sending people down and let Macha know that THESE are your 2005 Oakland A's.

I have to apologize, I'm overly emotional after such an embarrassing loss. But I am in disbelief at this point.

Lets Go Oakland Rivercats!

by popcornjames on May 26, 2005 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Injuries, bah

The Angels are currently lacking:

Their best player, Vladimir Guerrero.

Their best starting pitcher, Kelvim Escobar.

Their best relief pitcher, Francisco Rodriguez.

Geurrero is worth four Crosbys, Escobar is no slouch, and I'll take K-Rod over Dotel, thankusmuchibus.

Injuries happen.

by Gitz on May 26, 2005 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

good point

but I think everyone would have agreed the Angels had a lot more depth than we do. If the Yankees lose A-Rod and Rivera, I think they can still win more games than we can. The only part of our team coming in with depth was the bullpen, and it's the only part that's survived the injury plague. For now.

by Apricot on May 26, 2005 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Angels

First injuries happen, but lets be realistic Vlad and K-Rod just went on the DL it's not like they have been playing without them for the whole season or even a week at this point. Lets see how they survive them before we give them too much credit.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on May 26, 2005 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The A's

weren't exactly playing above .500 pre-injuries..crosby was the only main injury initially.

by oakwin2004 on May 26, 2005 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Injuries

Sorry, I am not blaming injuries for our record. I think the major problem is that just about everyone offensively has under performed. Crosby would have only made a minor diference

All I was pointing out is it is hard to give the Angels credit without putting it in context. Vlad has only been gone 5 games they are 2-3 without him and have score 12 runs in those 5 games. If he misses an extended time I do not see them winning the west.

Though injuries happen they can effect who makes the playoffs and who goes home.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on May 26, 2005 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The big problem...

is that the Angels (a) have money, and (b) aren't stupid.

Which beats the Beane set of (a) having no money, and (b) being not stupid.

I love Billy, but for a while there, he was competing in the division with guys that I'd have loved to have in my fantasy league. ("OK, I'm going to spend half my salary on a shortstop!" "Oh, yeah? I'm going to overpay for a 3B from Colorado!")

"Yucky Head Bad Guy!" - my 5-year-old daughter to Manny Ramirez. She got ice cream immediately afterward.

by DMtShooter on May 26, 2005 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Need everything to break right

I disagree, I do not think that the A's needed everything to break right to be competitive.

But the problem is that nothing broke right and in fact everything has pretty much broke as bad as it could. You lose Crosby. Your bullpen is supposed to be the strength, You lose Dotel and Callero and Cruz starts out just awful. Kendal and Chavez have hit worse then they have ever hit in their careers. Durazo and Hatteburg are not even within 90% of their last year numbers. Your ace pitcher is missing starts, Meyers was not ready for the show.

I really believe that if the offense produced and the bullpen was fully healthy that this team would have been competitive.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on May 26, 2005 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Despite the pain...

i feel in watching the individual games, I feel just fine about the future. Why shouldn't i? In Billy I trust motherfuckers!!!!!

"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on May 25, 2005 10:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

YEAH!!!

Awesome attitude

GO OAKLAND!!!

by LoveThemAs on May 25, 2005 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup! :)

but please don't let us be the 2004 mariners this season!!!

by gotgreen on May 25, 2005 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

.:cross your fingers:.

"That take gave me the chills! I got the chills right now!" -Swish

by hotz4harden on May 25, 2005 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

We would have a greater chance of being the 2004 Mariners if BB had not made all the moves he did during the offseason. The Mariners were bad because they got old in a hurry and their management was too short sighted to make corrections for it. On the contrary, we are doing poorly because we're too young.

As you can now see from the Mariners, the management had to front a boatload of money to keep the Mariner ship from sinking, but they are still not a legitimately contending team. We, on the other hand, will be a much stronger team next year, and even more so for the next few years after that.

by almostreggie on May 26, 2005 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

All our struggles are intertwined...

Our offense started the season (and has continued) in a hitting slump. This probably led to a feeling of either urgency or stress. This would lead to our defensive struggles. Our offensive problems are in our players' head and probably lead to not full focus on the field. constant failure leads to a feeling of failure among everyone and filters into everything. If we were to start hitting better and more consistantly, our defense would probably come around as well, and winning also breeds winning.

The A's need A-rod's shrink. Someone to snap them out of their funk. This "shrink" could be a player, manager, or someone else who can help our try to get over our recent failures. Sports players need to be able to shrug off struggles and failures and get a new outlook on the game.

As a fan, it's been very hard to watch the A's fall apart so completely. But, as I used to play many sports (and still do to some extent), I can understand how the breakdown could happen. Something needs to click with this team. I dunno what it is (if I did, I'd be working for the A's right now). But we kind of have to look at the problems as a whole. When one thing turns around, the rest should too.

So, hold out hope A's fans. Maybe not for this season, and certainly not for contention, but for our guys to shake this feeling of failure off and get back to playing ball like they know how to.

A's fan for life!!!

by ZeroIndulgence on May 25, 2005 10:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of pressing,

I noticed something on Tuesday. The A's looked great the first couple innings, scoring 3 in the 1st and consistently hitting balls hard. After Phelps' HR put TB ahead for the first time, the A's came up and immediately started swinging at a lot of first pitches, chasing balls out of the zone, and reverting back to many of the hitting-approach problems of the season-to-date.

In other words, they started pressing as soon as they fell behind, even though they had 6 innings to make up one run against a poor starter and a mediocre bullpen.

That's pressing; it comes from being human and it's a tough nut to crack.

Nico

by Nico on May 25, 2005 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Instead of A-Rod's shrink...

...can we just get A-Rod? He makes enough money, maybe he could do some charity work at DH in Oakland on his days off maybe? Eh, just a thought?

by JLaff on May 25, 2005 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The feeling's mutual..

It is hard to watch this team play so badly. No one could've imagined all the injuries and the huge slumps that we are mired in, like quicksand...we can't seem to pull out. I believe this A's team in not a bad team, that they are capable (right now) of so much more.
That said, the bottom line, rock bottom line is 17-28.It is hard not to wonder "what if" - but that's a diary in itself..probably many.
Keep the faith, Blez..and AN is going to be right there with you..kudos to all the positive posts here...hey, we could be way over .500 come AN DAY!!!

by LongTimeFan on May 25, 2005 10:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Two suggestions for more excitement in A's-Land

1) Stop jerking around with Byrnes--make him our everyday left-fielder and stop pinch-hitting for him. Have him leadoff, too, and give him the green light to steal bases.
The A's are dull, they need a shot in the arm, and who better to give it to them? As an aside, it drives me crazy the way Macha has treated him this year--platooning him with Kielty and Thomas and Watson while letting Swisher go every day. It's insulting after everything Byrnes has done for the A's in years past. (I know, perhaps it's Macha's belated revenge for Byrnes not touching home plate).

2) Sign Ricky Henderson. In years past, Billy could say that the A's were making a playoff run and needed their roster to be filled with the best players available. But now, the A's need Ricky. And not just for bored fans, but for the players as well. The kids on that team are surrounded by kids, so much so that the environment may seem minor-league. Playing with a Hall-of-Famer might do a little to alleviate that. A very-eccentric Hall-of-Famer, but a Hall-of-Famer nonetheless. And Ricky needs us to hit his 300th homer.

by rubin sierra on May 25, 2005 10:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

ricky to a young ball club

from your comments: "Playing with a Hall-of-Famer might do a little to alleviate that. A very-eccentric Hall-of-Famer, but a Hall-of-Famer nonetheless"

IMHO, this is a very bad idea for a young impressionable ball club.

admittedly I wasn't around during the A's hey days with Ricky so I don't have your loyalty. but this makes my shudder about the impact of this on the next few years. kind of like the A's bringing Barry Bonds over to DH for the A's.

real bad karma

by alamedaman on May 25, 2005 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rickey is NOT Barry!!

...so I can't agree with you that it would be bad karma.

He has a terrific work ethic, I doubt he's juiced, and although he has always been a "hot dog" he has backed it up with phenomenal play. I think he could mentor the young players very well, and continue to walk & steal bases, not to mention drawing fans.

I would love it.

It will never happen. BB has a bug up his butt about Rickey, IMHO.

by Batgal on May 26, 2005 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Mostly Agree

I agree with Rubin Sierra.
1st: No more jerking around with Byrnes. I think we can be sure he'll finally be traded away with Dotel for something. I think it's about time. I know we all love byrnes for his constant sprint and occasional highlight worthy playing, but I have never been a fan. The reason Byrnes is sitting is the reason he always sits. It's because he's not good enough to be an everyday player. He's good for 60-80 games, then opposing pitching figures him out and his work ethic can no longer balance his lack of true talent/

2nd: Sign Ricky. Ricky would put butts in seats, which is far more important right nww than even starting pitching or hitting with players on base. We need a new stadium, and for that we need ticket sales. Plus maybe Ricky would take his return to the A's as a chance to retire, and what better place to do it then Oakland?

by TheCatch on May 26, 2005 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll agree with this...

but for other reasons in #1. Yeah, he's uptempo enough to give us a shot in the arm, but if he can get hot it will raise his trade stock. I'd love to see the A's steel more bases and try to make things happen. It couldn't hurt, they're already playing about as bad as possible.

And, yes, I'd love to see Ricky get one more season as an A so he can retire happy. And he couldn't hurt if he came in and played hard.

A's fan for life!!!

by ZeroIndulgence on May 26, 2005 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chavez-very mixed feelings

I have very mixed feelings on Chavy. On the negative side, he clearly has not lived up to the expectations that a lot of people (including BB and A's management generally) had for him. Horrible start to the year hitting--worse than horrible.

Can't seem to go with the pitch when he should--a pitch on the outside corner that is, particularly from lefties. (interesting how last year when he was coming back from the hand injury he seemed to do this IMHO).

Horrible clutch hitting, that really sticks out batting 3rd.

Where are all these errors for our 4 time Golden Glover coming from?

No leadership!! From not being behind homeplate signalling to Byrnes to slide in that horrible 3rd game loss vs. Boston in '03, and not yelling at Byrnes to go back and tag home, to many, many other examples.

On the other hand, how did the A's really expect this guy to be a leader? He's clearly a wonderful guy, liked by lots of his teammates, but lacking in self confidence. Did we just hope he would turn into a leader despite evidence to the contrary?

and his bat, he's a .275 batting average, with better OB%, and OPS. And a wonderful ability to make great D plays. But was that worth $11 million, 20% of our payroll? I'd say bad bet.

But this is not chavey's fault. he's giving it his best. I feel sorry for his "deer in the headlights" look at times.

I think we just have to admit that we have a solid ballplayer here, that likely should bat 6 or 7 (change if he proves differently), is not the team leader (unless he proves differently--and I don't think he will), but it's not his fault that we paid him $11 million. He's not dogging it. So in the venacular, to A's management and A's fans--WEAR IT!! Just recognize reality and make the best of it.

If we do that, Erik will either play well at the level of expectation, or he'll surprise us all, over time.

by alamedaman on May 25, 2005 10:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Chavy's leadership

...hasn't been an issue with Billy, I don't think. That's not why they signed him; they signed him for his stellar defense (MIA this season) & his bat (showing signs of re-emerging.)
We won't talk about his potential. :-(

I don't think the concept of "clubhouse leader" means anything to BB--if you were to ask him, I'll bet he'd say the idea is overrated.

by Batgal on May 26, 2005 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

In other words, alamedaman,

(if the A's could afford it): invest in a "go to" hitter and you'll get 2-for-1 for your money, because you'll also realize your return on Chavy.

(Like if you invested in a top-notch closer, you might also get $4.5mil value out of Dotel as an overpowering set-up man.)

Nico

by Nico on May 25, 2005 10:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yep

some players are great second bananas. David Robinson, Scottie Pippen from another sport.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is the year they're going to splurge. I suspect the front office doesn't believe in hitter-protection or closer-protection. (Maybe they do believe the second.)

by Apricot on May 25, 2005 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Roger Maris...

To point out another ex-Athletic. Second banana to the Mick, who was named after another ex-Athletic.

"First of all, I'm not calm about it. Every time they lose, I freak out." - Andy Painter

by secret ASian man on May 25, 2005 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Change the lineup time?

We have been unsuccessful for 45 games with Chavez in the number 3 hole. In the game of baseball you have your clutch rbi guy hit in this spot. Unbelievably our manager has continued, night after night, to put Chavez in this key spot. Can't count how many rally's he has killed with strikeouts, dp's and popup's. Chavez being in this critical spot has killed our weak offense all year and yet the manager fails to recognize it.
Why is this same manager unable to go out and argue a call last night when Sarloss missed the bag? Can't he stick up for our team like we expect the manager to? Would Francona stand in the dugout chewing his gum and scratching his head? What about Scosicia? I think not.
What this is leading to is our total lack of direction, leadership and coaching for a young team by its' manager. 45 games is enough.
This is 1979 all over again.

Morada Mudshark

by Morada Mudshark on May 25, 2005 10:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

no Nico

Isn't it more living with your mistake since you can't change it? I'm working on an analogy to use here. I mean we spent $11 million for a $5 million product. but what fool is going to pay us $11 million now?

by alamedaman on May 25, 2005 10:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, my point was

that as second banana, Chavy would put up solid .275/30/100 Gold Glove numbers worthy of $11 mil in today's market. As top banana, he looks like he wants to split, and it's not a-peeling to watch.

Nico

by Nico on May 25, 2005 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

so you think Chavez is dogging

it? Maybe, but I don't feel like I've seen that. I think he may be pressing. he's not a leader, he can't live up to the billing, and we just made a mistake in our valuation of this guy.

by alamedaman on May 25, 2005 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, no, no,

por favor, don't mistake my (lame) puns for serious evaluations. Chavy's not dogging it; he's just having a woof time right now.

Nico

by Nico on May 25, 2005 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ah, je comprends, mais qu'est-ce que vous

faites avec Chavez? pardon the horrible french. but what else would you do with Chavez?

by alamedaman on May 25, 2005 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

God, the A's are the like Warriors...

pre-Baron Davis. We need a Baron Davis.

"First of all, I'm not calm about it. Every time they lose, I freak out." - Andy Painter

by secret ASian man on May 25, 2005 10:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Instead

we get a barren bullpen.

Nico

by Nico on May 25, 2005 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

BA-ZING!

Nice one, Nico.

"First of all, I'm not calm about it. Every time they lose, I freak out." - Andy Painter

by secret ASian man on May 25, 2005 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

You know your team's in trouble when you're wishing to be more like the Warriors organization. Gaak!!! G'nite.

Nico

by Nico on May 25, 2005 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How true

"First of all, I'm not calm about it. Every time they lose, I freak out." - Andy Painter

by secret ASian man on May 25, 2005 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

we need a major shake up now!!!!!

we need to fire the coaching staff....trade some players, bring up dan johnson, get rid of hatteberg...no power.....bring up jairo garcia..with his 98 mph fastball.....get rid of ginter ellis...bring up mike rouse....trade kendall to the national league, and durazo.... we need the new owners to sack up and dig into their big money...we have the 3rd richest owners in baseball... Gap owner son fisher is loaded....spend some money god damn it..this team has no heart...no will to win...it is terrible watching this team play...tampa bay is killing us, how is that possible????????????? we need to move to san jose, we will sell out every game!!!!! fuck you giants...give up the stupid territory rights. you flaming butt pirates!!!!!!!!!!! lets shake it up billy beane...i trust you!!!!!!!!!!

by jaacee007 on May 25, 2005 11:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting idea

Get rid of all our Major League players and just bring up the entire AAA team, while moving to a new city. Gosh, why didn't Billy think of that? I hope he's reading this thread. . .

by el generico on May 26, 2005 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"I trust you!!!!"

If you change everything you've been doing and do what I say instead!

The next time I slap a guy's ass, can we all just assume it's because I wish I was a baseball player?

by devo on May 26, 2005 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A Very Simple Proposal

And I ain't gloating because i thought they'd win 90 games. i am as flabbergasted as anyone that they're this bad.

But along with a lot of other things, i think Beane should suck it up and deal Chavez. I think he can find a couple of takers who will still buy into the potential. I think the 11 million drain for a player who will never be the anchor we need is a killer-- I'd rather get a couple of real promising prospects and play Ginter there for the rest of this season. and consider switching crosby there if Quintanilla is ready next year or soon thereafter.

I mean if it's the San Diego thing and BB not wanting to admit a huge mistake, well then BB is not doing his duty.

The guy will never be the player we wish he was; and that realization will probably drive his performance down further. Get him out of here while we still can.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on May 25, 2005 11:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

You don't even know what you're saying, do you?

Do you have any idea how unrealistic this idea is?

by grover on May 25, 2005 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

why??

trades like this are made all the time.

Somebody in contention or semi-contention who has the money would think about the move.

How in love with Crede are the White Sox?? What about the orioles, who could easily shift Mora to DH?

Or the Red Sox who could give us the Greek God of walks and put Mueller on the bench?

Or Florida who realizes Lowell may be on his last legs?

You don't think a deal could be made? Of course it could.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on May 25, 2005 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

contrary to what I said below,

if you did get the right deal for chavez, or course take it. It's just pretty unusual that when your company's earning are down 40%, you're going to get a wonderful offer. It just doesn't normally happen.

by alamedaman on May 25, 2005 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course a deal COULD be made

That doesn't mean it would be any good. Chavez is playing poorly right now, that drops his trade value. He just started the 1st year of a new mulit-year contract. If traded he can demand his release from the new team and seek a bigger contract elsewhere. This would be almost guaranteed to happen should he post his typical numbers at the end of the season, because he gave the A's a "hometown" discount. This also lowers his trade value.

In short Beane would get low-balled for Chavez, and Heaven help the organization once the word got out that Eric was on the block.

by grover on May 25, 2005 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

hey, that was my point. It's not the

right time to deal chavez. am I misinterpretting your comment?

by alamedaman on May 25, 2005 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes and No

It's hard to trade a player in the middle, or in this case, at the start of a multi-year contract. If Chavez ends up having a typical year, or even an above average year, it is all but certain that he will demand to have his contract renegotiated or get released. So the team trading for Chavez would get to low-ball Beane.

by grover on May 25, 2005 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You may be right, but that's

news to me. I'll have to look into baseball contracts a little more. I thought the power of the current contract was a little stronger than you imply.

by alamedaman on May 26, 2005 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

According to MLB rules

I don't have the exact wording in front of me...

But any player traded in the midst of a multi-year deal has the right to demand a trade or his release from his new team after the first year. So if Oakland were to trade Chavez in 2005 (the 1st year of his 6 year contract) he'd be able to leave KC (for example) after the season IF he chose to do so.

by grover on May 26, 2005 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks, seriously, but two questions

first, I think we are still in agreement here, in that this is not the right time to trade Chavez. (my comment lower in the sequence was more clear on that. what I was saying in the comment you responded to, is there is that occassional situation where another team just needs your guy, and is willing to pay over market value, because, for example, they are shooting the moon this year--and if you found that guy, of course deal Chavez.)
but second, I would like to have a better understanding of these trade intracacies. Your comments ring true--have you just picked this up in general knowledge, or are you referring to a document that lays this out, and if so, where are they?. (this is not a sarcastic question, i'm really interested)

by alamedaman on May 26, 2005 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

trade of Chavez

Th fact that Oakland would be shopping him would imply that the A's feel he is worth less then his contract. So any trading team would not care if he opted out of it, and unless he really picks it up he would end up like Nomar (turning down an offer worth more then he can get as a free agent) If he has value it would be for a team who wants to win now and is willing to live with his long term deal in the event he sticks around. (but would not care if he walks either)

Personally I think he is going to have a huge 2nd half. The question is if he will always be a type of player who plays good for 100 out of the 162. I can not remeber when he put together a complete season. I think where he is one of the parts it is ok but where he is the focal point of the offense and defacto team leader we need a player to perform throughout the whole year and not be ice cold for 2 months.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on May 26, 2005 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting to think about ...

Perhaps the Mets

for a package of David Wright, Yusmeiro Petit, and Lastings Milledge

or the Red Sox

for Hanley Ramirez, the Greek God of Walks, and Jon Papelbon.

The Braves?

for Andy Marte, Kyle Davis, and ??

The Rockies have the pieces to make it work, but what about the salaries?

for Ian Stewart and Jeff Francis

The Angels could give us a good package, but would we be willing to make it happen?

for Dallas McPherson, Erick Aybar, and Steve Shell

The next time I slap a guy's ass, can we all just assume it's because I wish I was a baseball player?

by devo on May 26, 2005 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

buy low, sell high.

this would be the absolute worst time to deal chavez. he is playing so far below his previous track record, and his potential. don't use this philosophy on your stock portfolio--or otherwise trust social security to take care of you (heh, heh). dealing chavez now is buy high, sell low.

by alamedaman on May 25, 2005 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're wrong

GMs are much more sophisticated than that.

Think about rotisserie-- anyone knows that Chavez is more likely to hit 290 the rest of the way than the career 280 hitter whom is currently at 330.

The real question isn;t these two months-- but whether another organization believes enough in Chavez' talent that if he ain't "the guy" he'll give them 4-5 real quality years. And if beane realizes that since he can't unload kendall and may want to resign kotsay, the 11 million is too juch of an albatross to bear.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on May 25, 2005 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah,,,

...so other GMs will buy Chavez when he's low. That's an ingredient for the A's getting screwed, big time. If Beane pulled the trigger on something like that, I'd lose a whole lot of respect in that guy.

"First of all, I'm not calm about it. Every time they lose, I freak out." - Andy Painter

by secret ASian man on May 25, 2005 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would take the deal you outline

but chavez is a .273 career hitter, and I think you're dealing from a low point. but i agree that there are times when another team just desperately needs a player, or a need, at a position. and if that came up, I would do it. I love kotsay in center, and would sign him long term as would you.

where we differ is the chances of that happening in the real world. (only caveat is looking at 3b backup in the minors for us).

by alamedaman on May 25, 2005 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we're rebuilding

then I agree, let's hit both corners of the infield. Chavez' passivity just makes me want to scream. And I'm not sure that he really cares this year.

**sigh**

by Just Me on May 26, 2005 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I posted this last October

How does it look now?

By Steve in Napa on Mon Oct 4th, 2004
[Edit Diary]

And while we're looking at changes for 2005 I'll be the first to suggest that it's time to trade Eric Chavez. I know, I know, we've got him signed to a long term contract (which actually looks pretty cheap) and that he is Billy B.'s chosen one. But--he is no number three hitter or cleanup man (if you want to see an exampole of one of those take a look at Vlad Guerrero, Manny Ramirez, Miguel Tejada, etc.).
We can then easily let Dye go, pay our starters, and maybe even sign ANOTHER player.
Now don't go getting all crazy on me now....if we can trade Chavy for a REAL middle of the lineup power we can put that player at either corner outfield position OR at first base. Crosby moves to 3rd, Ellis to SS, Scutaro stays at second.

"If there is a fear of falling, the only safety consists in deliberately jumping." -- Carl Jung

by Steve in Napa on May 26, 2005 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The bright side

Hey, at least the commercials they play on the radio during games aren't as offensive as the ones of the last few years- no more Beer Poets.

"You can throw your cocks if I don't care!" - Iggy Pop

by AlamedaAphid on May 25, 2005 11:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

A few thoughts...

The irony of this situation is that Billy Beane was right to try rebuilding. The 2004 team went further than it had any right to go, and did so with the help of career years from Durazo, Hatteberg, and Kotsay. We all focus on Mulder's collapse, but really, that team was clinging to first place in spite of itself for much of the last couple of months of the year.

The problem is that rebuilding brings its own set of problems. Losing is miserable for everyone. Trading away proven players hardly ever produces immediate returns, but often doesn't yield long-term returns.

Oaktoon goes over the top in his daily diaries, but he does raise a concern I have: the downward spiral. The A's will not draw with a dull, losing team. Players will be less inclined to stick around. As attendance falls, the drumbeat of relocation will get louder. Beane was trying to avoid a long period of non-contention by making the Hudson and Mulder trades, but it's not at all clear that he will avert it.

The farm system really seems pretty barren, with a few exceptions - mostly in the lower minors. The A's produced a string of stars in the late 90s, an extraordinary run. My beef with the team's former owners, and to a much lesser extent with Beane, is that we didn't do enough to take advantage of that. In recent years, the farm system has produced Harden, Crosby, Street and that's about it. This makes it awfully difficult to compete using the A's model.

I've comforted myself with the thought that Jason Kendall is adjusting to a new league, as Kotsay did. But it's also possible that he's just a catcher who's burnt out after years of regular play and a major injury. His defense is very weak and he can barely get the ball out of the infield even when he hits.

The A's was dependent on two things: the Big Three and Beane's uncanny ability to make excellent acquisitions. But the A's payroll doesn't leave much margin for error, or injuries. Choosing Chavez over Tejada was a defensible decision, but it looks like it will be a very costly mistake. The Kendall trade looks bad. Wouldn't you like to have Bonderman in the rotation?

A rotation that includes Etherton, Blanton, Saarloos and Haren isn't likely to win many games.

Billy Beane deserves a lot of credit, and a lot of indulgence from us, for the teams he built from the late 1990s through 2004. I am confident in his abilities. But it's not so easy now. Everyone, except for a few commentators, has read Moneyball. They know about OPS and all that. This team looks awful, and may be almost as bad as it appears. It may take a lot longer to put things back together than we hope.

by bear88 on May 26, 2005 1:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I was going to comment ...

but you seem to have transcribed my thoughts, although I've never comforted myself with the Kendall justification. He's just a bad, overrated catcher who may have looked better than he was on a terrible team in a league with no good catchers. That said, he does seem to have gotten worse.

by iceplant on May 26, 2005 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Steve B's SportsCenter Comments during highlights:

"...and the A's, are AWFUL" THis made me realize, wow we really DO suck, face it. It's 1997 all over again. I wish i would've lived up the past 4 years more...you could pretty much say we've officially entered the lowest tier in the league. We're with the Rays, and KC. We're 27th in ESPN.com's power rankings. This team is no longer considered a good team in a slump, but rather simply a bad bad team. Billy Beane, i still have faith, but it's starting to wear very very thin...

by rsur5 on May 26, 2005 2:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yikes! this team, right now is..

....B...A...D!

i'd like to see them at full strength. get all the injuried players back and see what happens. but the fact is, when this team does get healthy their season will be over.

i've always said this year is the foundation for the next 4 yrs....but damn its hard watching this guys play. the pitchers are pitching scared, the defense is an absolute joke and the offense is....well, i just want to cry they're so bad. macha looks like he is just putting in time and getting paid and young appears confused.

what a mess.

The "Free Matt Watson from Sacramento-Redux" Committee is back in business...taking new memberships...crap!!!

by bigelephant on May 26, 2005 5:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

so Blanton's not preparing for his starts?

``You've got to respect your opponent and prepare properly,'' Macha said when asked about Blanton's performance.

by Sharon on May 26, 2005 6:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Favorite Scene

My favorite scene last night was when Charles Thomas hit a foul pop up and the look on his face just screamed "I have absolutely no clue what I'm doing anymore." He was dejected, but it was the look when someone is used to failure. Not a good sign. He should be in AAA, but Beane knows he has no future, so why take playing time away from a prospect.

by jubjub on May 26, 2005 6:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

ugh

And to think that we traded Tim Hudson to get Charles Thomas et al.

I have faith.

by BillybUcko on May 26, 2005 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Be glad the Giants aren't doing well either.

Otherwise the Bay Area media would be all over the fact that Magowan/Sabean and Co. are doing the right thing by having "seasoned veterans" and doing things the "traditional way". Of course, Barry Bonds could still be back for the second half and change things in a hurry, but right now that's iffy.

And when Bonds is finally retired and SF is truly into a rebuilding period, we will already be way ahead of them. I have to think that figured at least a little into why the A's decided to retool/rebuild/whatever this year.

Even though we don't play in the same league or division, the Giants are our primary competition in more ways than we think.

by Rob on May 26, 2005 8:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

the thing is...

the Giants are actually getting along pretty good, considering. They, too, have been racked by injuries -- Bonds, Schmidt, Benitez, Alou, etc. as have many teams! -- but they're all at least adjusting and fielding competitive teams. The A's are in freefall, as Blez says, and not coming around anytime soon.

I don't think they've hit bottom yet.

by RiverCats4Ever on May 26, 2005 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My take...

Having sat through the dreadful '79 season and some not so good seasons between then and now, all I can say is I'm still optimistic. Why? Because this team has more talent than the pathetic ones I've watched in years past. The problem the A's are having is that they no longer have any team leaders, the in your face type motivavtors that light the fire within a team. Giambi, Miggy, Huddy, etc have all departed an no one is left to step into the roll. All had hoped Chavey would, but apparently he doesn't have the makeup. Neither does Z and although we've seen signs of lighting the fire from Kotsay, there hasn't been any consistancy from what I've seen. This isn't a knock on those guys, they're just not the firey type of personality.
Macha's brand of managing is not going to turn this team around. He's no Billy Martin who hated losing more than anything in the world. I never agreed with making his point by fighting with players, but Martin lit a fire in his players. Macha couldn't light a fire if given 40 gallons of lighter fluid and a blazing torch.
So, if the A's are going to play their patented 2nd half season of baseball a one or a combination of things need to happen. Beane needs to replace Macha with a firebrand, motivational manager. Maybe that's Wash, I don't know. Beane also needs to pick up a firey veteran player that wants to win and can remind these guys they have the ability. I'm not sure who this guy is, but I'm sure he's out there. And with a bit of luck, he wouldn't be too expensive.

My 2 cents for what it's worth.

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by lansfords1 on May 26, 2005 8:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow, Blanton looked great...

Reminded me of Curt Young when he pitched for us.

My friend told me to not worry and the A's would turn it around. I could picture him telling me the same thing in August when I complain about how the A's almost won their 30th game...if it wasn't for leaving the bases loaded 3 times and a couple of late inning errors.

Either way, I'm going to Dallas with my family in July to catch a couple of games...I guess I'm a glutten for punishment.

by MemphisA on May 26, 2005 8:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Curt Young didn't pitch that badly

I remember when he pitched for Oakland and he was a respectable 4th or 5th starter among a bunch of excellent pitchers. I think he just looked weak by comparison.

And yes, I also remember some games that made me cringe.

But he was NOT a bad pitcher, sorry.

by Batgal on May 26, 2005 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

I was just kidding...he wasn't good, but not horrible...his 69 career wins would put him at or near the top of our team now.

by MemphisA on May 26, 2005 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the Henny Pennys

are vastly underestimating the effect of losing not just 25% of your roster to injury, but 25% from the top of the roster: your three best experienced relievers, your ace, and your two best young hitters.

The Whitesox are on top of the world right now. Take out Buehrle, Hermanson, Takatsu, Marte, Rowand, and Shinjo, all at the same time, and check back with them in a month.

The A's extreme level of injury is enough to make a great team look mediocre, and enough to make a decent team look awful.

The Henny Pennys need to stop talking about "the team Beane put together" because it's not the team he has so far this year, nor the team he will have next year.

Nico

by Nico on May 26, 2005 8:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

NONSENSE!

and that's the gist of my argument.

by Sharon on May 26, 2005 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also,

Whatever pivotal player who aren't hurt are grossly underperforming. Yes, that measn Chavez, Durazo and Kendall, personally the "Al Adjustment" excuse is getting old. Especially whenever he makes contact it's a weak hit that barely makes it out of the infield.

"First of all, I'm not calm about it. Every time they lose, I freak out." - Andy Painter

by secret ASian man on May 26, 2005 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But the very fact that they're performing below

their potential should be reason for some modicum of optimism for getting some wins, given the normal expectation that they'll start to perform up to their potential, while also getting the boost from having Harden, Crosby, Calero, et al come back from the DL.

by Checkswing HR on May 26, 2005 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Watched Mulder at Busch

last night pitch against the Pirates and I was right behind the plate. Sigh.

goes to pancakes house

by ak_A on May 26, 2005 9:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

How many of you remember when

Harden pitched poorly in his first full season? Ditto Mulder with an era of 5.44? And how many of you were bitching about Mulder in the last two months of 2004? Remember that many of you wanted to trade him and/or replace him with Blanton as a SP.

How many of you remember when Tejada batted .161 in April? Or that some of the finest players have a lousy season or two? That might just be what's happening this year to Chavez and Kendall--but everything in their history indicates that ultimately they will revert back to the talent they have exhibited in the past.

When you integrate two basically rookie pitchers into the rotation, you are by definition rebuilding. BB knew this, but it would have hurt the team's morale, to say nothing of attendance, for him to have acknowledged this.

And competitor that he is, BB also may have thought that although he knew this would be unlikely, that if the chips fell just right and the rest of the West tanked, that maybe the A's might contend--at least for awhile.

Well, obviously, the latter scenario was not to be. And Chavez and Kendall, for different reasons, are not playing up to their potential.

But if you understand that rebuilding is something every team except the high payroll Yanks, BoSox, Mets and Angels must do, you will be patient and enjoy watching the evolution of the young players over a full season. Some will ultimately grow into MLB stars; others will not reach their potential. That's both the beauty and fascination of rebuilding a team with youngsters.

So focus on the growth (or not) or individuals and understand that the payroll would no more accommodate Hudson and Mulder than it would Tejada (who signed for significantly more than Chavvy) or Jason G.

And stop knocking BB, Macha, and Young--they can't wave a magic wand and turn rookies into savvy veterans. But they can teach them and patiently build a future contender which should challenge for the playoffs for the foreseeable future.

Oh yeah, and if A's baseball makes you so miserable, may I offer the kind suggestion that you don't watch? This is supposed to be entertainment, not a pity party to bitch and whine...

by reztips on May 26, 2005 9:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

thanks

for the timely reminder. I remember being terribly disappointed when they let Mike Bordick go, and brought up this young Tejada kid who had potential, but was not the smooth glover that Bordick was. I remember thinking that this Giambi kid wasn't a great first basemen, and was never going to replace the heart-rending loss of Mark McGwire. He turned into an all right player, I seem to remember.
I have faith that some of these kids will turn out to be pretty good, and maybe some of them won't, but it could be interesting to watch.

by el generico on May 26, 2005 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rez

"But they can teach them and patiently build a future contender which should challenge for the playoffs for the foreseeable future."

The question remains: Since macha will not be here for the future, why is he here for the present?

by oakwin2004 on May 26, 2005 9:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Isn't always Macha or Young's Fault

It isn't Macha or Young's fault that Blanton gives up seven earn runs in the first.

It isn't Macha or Young's fault that this team made 37 errors.

It isn't Macha or Young for all the players on DL.

There must be a point where us fans stop blaming the Field manager, pitching coach or management as the problem, but blaming everybody all-around even the players on the field. Blaming Macha, Young, Hudgens or even Washington are all scapegoats that avoids the real problems of players performing not like Major Leaguer on the field. Even Joe Torre or Bobby Cox would scratch his head with this team.

by pachydermOAFC on May 26, 2005 10:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

You haven't

answered the question. If macha is not in the future plans, why is he still around? His contract is yp at the end of the season, every indication leads to him leaving for Pitt...Mckeon took over a underachieving team in FLA, why can't the A's try the same tactic..no shit it's the players who aren't performing..but you can't fire all the players..there's more to baseball than just filling out a lineup card...

by oakwin2004 on May 26, 2005 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

well, losing might not be macha/young's

fault but there seems to be some strange decision making going on with this team.

defense. this is washington's area of expertise and this team's defense is absolutely atrocious...it makes me wonder some people even want washington as the manager. YIKES!!! if it's NOT washington's responsibility to get these guys playing some defense, then it's macha's job TO GET washington to ride their asses. this team playing poor defense is nothing new-they've stunk coming out of ST.
pitching. when people defend young, they typically point out two issues: A) young has worked harden, and look at his success, B) young has worked with many of the youngsters in the minors-where they had success. well, we can't have this both ways now, can we? is the team failing because of poor coaching or is it the players are performing badly? i'd say both. thats why coaches get canned and players get traded. i've never understood this love for young. he looks way over his head and void of any meaningful thought to me. example: blanton. is it just me or is this guy utterly confused? he's mechanics are all off and its doubtful if blanton could throw a meaningful pitch if his life depended on it. but, hey, wait! didn't young actually work with blanton in the minors???? geesh, i'm not even a friggin' PC and i can see blanton's problems. just friggin' incredible!!! plus, it seems to me that haren has become WORSE under young...hummmm, is there a pattern here???
swisher has no business playing in oakland right now. from all reports, he isn't ready. in "the sac" he wasn't hitting for any power, many of his hits were bloppers. and although he walked twice last night he left 5 on base. nice, just what this team needs, another hitter not playing well and leaving runners on.

sorry, although you maybe right, that ALL the repsonsibility SHOULDN'T land on the coaches heads- in this scenario, its actually where it'ii drop.

i give both macha and young until mid-july.

The "Free Matt Watson from Sacramento-Redux" Committee is back in business...taking new memberships...crap!!!

by bigelephant on May 26, 2005 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I need a date to look forward to

(Not that kind of date, Nico.)

When is Harden's next likely start?

by Apricot on May 26, 2005 10:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What Sucks About This Team

It's not that the team is struggling, it's that they're all playing like a bunch of losers. The team has no heart, no soul... I honestly think they EXPECT to suck ass, and so they do. It's like someone earlier posted, about how Chuckie (Suckie) Thomas popped out and just looked resigned to the fact that he sucks and his popout was inevitable. This whole team acts this way, with every error, every popout, every lead-off walk surrendered, every blown lead. I know the A's have had a lot of bad breaks, and the players have lost some mojo... but geez, act like you freaking want it a little... have some WILL to turn it around. I'd be able to stnad watching them if I percieved this, but I don't... what I see are a buncha losers who've resigned themselves to being terrible. We're the new KC... I'd say we're the new Rays... but they're better than we are. much better.

The 2005 Oakland A's: Impressively Futile

by shmik on May 26, 2005 10:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

OK, What can we do

with what we've got?

Best lineup going forward:

Kotsay CF
Kendall C
Crosby SS
Johnson 1B
Swisher RF
Chavez 3B
Byrnes LF
Cust/Durazo DH
Ellis 2B

Rotation:

Harden (not soon enough)
Zito
Haren
Duchscherer
Yabu

Middle Relief
Saarloos
Etherton

Set Up
Cruz
Calero
Rincon
Dotel

Closer
Street

"If there is a fear of falling, the only safety consists in deliberately jumping." -- Carl Jung

by Steve in Napa on May 26, 2005 10:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd love to see Duchscherer in the rotation...

I don't know how great Etherton would be in long relief. Either really good and no one can hit him, or he tanks by giving up 3 runs in an inning during a tight game... Because his last start indicates that he has no problem pounding the strikezone and as a result, people get lots of two out hits off of him.

by Melody on May 26, 2005 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is the time that...

...you dump anyone over 30 and bring in fresh faces with a high upside.

Concentrate on skills and development, cheer every base hit by a rookie like it was a win, and help these guys get used to the feel of a major league fastball.

Wear the losses proudly, for they'll make us better going forward. After all, we're a long way from what Pirates fans have had to endure over the years...

by Ozzz on May 26, 2005 11:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

never happen

There is no way that the A's bring up a bunch of rookies, unless those rookies are not in their long-term plans. They do not waste a year of service time for any of their top tier prospects.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on May 26, 2005 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

And, as I keep saying over and over recently, we will not be trading any of our free-agents-to-be this season, because they're each of them worth far less in trade value than the value that we would get out of a draft pick for each.

And if we're not trading Hatte, Ruby, and Byrnesie, then there's no roster room for DJ/Watson/Cust/Ethier/Herrera/et al.

Not gonna happen. Wait 'til next year.

by monkeyball on May 26, 2005 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or September in this case

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on May 26, 2005 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Macha might return

to manage the A's in 2006, oakwin. Just because he didn't sign a contract extension doesn't mean he won't. As for him going to Pittsburgh (his hometown), the Pirates might just decide to extend the manager they have. Or Macha might decide that his allegiance remains with the team he has managed and coached for a half decade.

As for resigning Rickey, don't make me laugh. First of all, he's 46 and wasn't able to get around on a MLB fastball several years ago. More important, his influence on young players is NOT something the A's want. Item: for good reason, Captain Carney Lansford called the egomaniacal Rickey "a cancer" on the A's championship team. Item: in his autobiography "Loose as a Goose," the great Goose Gossage termed Rickey "the worst, the most selfish teammate I ever had." Finally, ask any Mets fan what they think of Rickey, given that he was playing cards in the clubhouse during the last inning of the Mets final playoff game.

Henderson, once a great player, was and is a total jerk, an egomaniac "me-me-me" guy who is best kept away from the current edition of the young A's. BB knows this and will assuredly keep his distance...

by reztips on May 26, 2005 11:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

We're doomed.

In the spirit of the general negative(deservedly so) mood that has descended across the nation, I thought I would like to note that so far none of the following catastrophes have occurred:

Our GM, BB leaves in the middle of a game with back pain and goes on the DL. Wolff promotes Macha to GM until Beane comes back.
Macha immediately trades Chavez to Kansas City for a new mascot. Stomper gets sent down to AAA, where he will share time with Dinger.
Mr. Byrnes shows up for a Raiders game by mistake, gets injured playing Defense End.
Dotel decides to replace his slider with an underhand softball pitch -- to protect his elbow. Unfortunately, it's hard not to tip your pitches when you throw underhand.
Annoyed fans mob Sluggerrr and beat him to a pulp. Stomper gets recalled from AAA.
Blez, disgusted with A's baseball, shuts down.... no, that's too horrible to think about...

AT LEAST WE ALL HAVE AN!

Forty isn't old -- for a tree.

by atomopawn on May 26, 2005 11:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Erm.

Defensive end, I meant.

Forty isn't old -- for a tree.

by atomopawn on May 26, 2005 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And yes,

the KC Royals really do have a mascot named Sluggerrr.

Forty isn't old -- for a tree.

by atomopawn on May 26, 2005 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

On the bright side...

My new AN shirts have had a positive effect on my social life. I've had 3 attractive women ask me if they could "Wear It".

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by lansfords1 on May 26, 2005 12:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Is that the secret question?

To find out if someone is a member of the secret society or something... Although if you thought a person was a member and you were wrong, it would be odd to just randomly ask, "Hey, do you wear it?"

by Melody on May 26, 2005 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa!

And here I was thinking that ladies were using my classy "Wear It" AN shirt as a means to chat me up. I had no idea I could potentially be a secret member of a secret club that wears it (whatever "it" may be).

Melody, do you think it would be even more odd to respond to the next lady that approaches me with "Do you know the secret handshake?"

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by lansfords1 on May 26, 2005 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs