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Buzz Bissinger's Three Nights in August (and Moneyball)

I know there's another diary touching on how La Russa and Bissnger's takes on Moneyball, but I found an excerpt from his upcoming book Three Nights in August that expands on it.

     In the fallout of Michael Lewis's provocative book Moneyball,
baseball front offices are increasingly being populated by thirtysomethings
whose most salient qualifications are MBA degrees and who come equipped
with a clinical ruthlessness: The skills of players don't even have to be
observed but instead can be diagnosed by adept statistical analysis through
a computer. These thirtysomethings view players as pieces of an assembly
line; the goal is to quantify the inefficiencies that are slowing down production
and then to improve on it with cost-effective player parts.
    In this new wave of baseball, managers are less managers than
middle managers, functionaries whose strategic options during a game
require muzzlement, there only to effect the marching orders coldly
calculated and passed down by upper management. It is wrong to say that
the new breed doesn't care about baseball. But it's not wrong to say that
there is no way they could possibly love it, and so much of baseball is about
love. They don't have the sense of history, which to the thirtysomethings is
largely bunk. They don't have the bus trips or the plane trips. They don't carry
along the tradition, because they couldn't care less about the tradition. They
have no use for the lore of the game--the poetry of its stories-- because it
can't be broken down and crunched into a computer. Just as they have no
interest in the human ingredients that make a player a player and make a
game a game: heart, desire, passion, reactions to pressure. After all, these
are emotions, and what point are emotions if they can't be quantified?

http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/catalog/titledetail.cfm?textType=excerpt&titleNumber=688947

First, no stat-head/thirtysomething has ever said that baseball's history is bunk. That's a ridiculous statement, and I don't have the energy to bother too much with it.

But for this I have plenty of energy:
It is wrong to say that the new breed doesn't care about baseball. But it's not wrong to say that there is no way they could possibly love it, and so much of baseball is about love.

I'm trying to wrap my brain around this. It's a blanket statement that feels like it was written more for dramatics than anything else. I just don't see how being a member of this "new breed" inhibits a person from loving the game. If I'm DePodesta, I have to love the game to stay and put up with the insane amount of BS streaming from the local critics.

Are people really so ignorant that they can believe something like this? Or is it just a jab at something the writer doesn't understand or disagrees with? If it's the latter, I think it's getting to the point where it's mean-spirited. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but I can't help feeling that way. I listen to these "baseball men" comment on Billy Beane, Moneyball, stat-heads, and the new breed...and I see a bully beating up on some dorky kid...constantly.

I've never traveled on a plane with any team. I've never spoken to a baseball player in my life. I've witnessed, first-hand, six  major league baseball games. I probably haven't been alive long anough to wax poetic about the history of the game...at least not from a personal point of view. I miss Paul DePodesta. I'm really excited about having Gary Huckabay work with my favorite team. And I'm going to watch as many A's games as I can this season even if most baseball "experts" say the team is going to tank...mostly b/c I trust Billy Beane. I'll be damned if Bissinger thinks that I don't love baseball.

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He's full of shit
"The sun don't shine on the same dog's ass all the time." -Catfish Hunter

by kaweahkaweah on Feb 16, 2005 10:46 AM PST reply actions  

Well DUH
Another idiot who's probably never read Moneyball. You know, the part about baseball being a business? Of course emotion and tradition and poetry aren't taken into account by these front-office "stathead" types, mainly because IT'S NOT THEIR JOB! Unless they're working in marketing or PR, "tradition" and "history" are completely irrelevant to their task. If this chump wants poetry instead of performance, he's better off sticking to little league or beer league baseball.

by OaktownTribesman on Feb 16, 2005 11:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Billy Beane
may have had an easier road than most to his front office perch, but the 30 something MBAs worked their asses off and, until they actually made it, were ridiculously underpaid and overqualified for menial jobs because they loved the game and just wanted to be a part of it. This guy is just a bitter old man who is pissed off that the world has passed him by.
Relax alright don't try to strike everyone out. Strikeouts are boring besides that they're fascist. Throw some ground balls it's more democratic.

by devo on Feb 16, 2005 11:09 AM PST reply actions  

No Offense
But the world has hardly passed Bissinger by. He's the author of one of the greatest Sports books ever, "Friday Night Lights". Now whether he has ever read "Moneyball", or knows what he's talking about it in regards to it, are another matter.

by applejack on Feb 16, 2005 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

He wrote that in the 90s
the world can easily pass you by over the course of 6 or 7 years.
Relax alright don't try to strike everyone out. Strikeouts are boring besides that they're fascist. Throw some ground balls it's more democratic.

by devo on Feb 16, 2005 12:15 PM PST up reply actions  

dude
his book just went Hollywood; the world has passed by many of the characters from that book, but not its author.  That comment was as misguided as his criticism
"When I went to church that same Sunday, I picked up a 2x4. I went up to the pulpit and clubbed the preacher in the head..."--Wesley Willis

by Cutthemullet on Feb 16, 2005 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Just because
his book was made into a movie doesn't mean the world hasn't passed him by. Will Shakespeare's writing is constantly been made into movies ...
Relax alright don't try to strike everyone out. Strikeouts are boring besides that they're fascist. Throw some ground balls it's more democratic.

by devo on Feb 16, 2005 6:31 PM PST up reply actions  

totally right...
Movies are made from classics all the time. "Friday Night Lights" was a good movie, but the book was written a while back.... at least for me. Most of the time script writers end up changing a lot of the story so the movie ends up being only loosely based on the story, hence the line when the movie begins "Based on Friday Night Lights."

William Shakespeare is a genius. I doubt Buzz Bissinger is in the same league as Shakespeare. :)

Devo's thoughts: "GrnKwlAid: 'Is Green & Gold Girl oggling Bazito again?'"

by GreenNGoldGirl on Feb 16, 2005 6:45 PM PST up reply actions  

You're right ...
but I doubt the world has passed ol'Buzz by as much as it has passed by Willy
Relax alright don't try to strike everyone out. Strikeouts are boring besides that they're fascist. Throw some ground balls it's more democratic.

by devo on Feb 16, 2005 8:23 PM PST up reply actions  

No...
I think Friday Night Lights was written in the late 80's not 90's.
"I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!!!" -Brick Tamland, Anchorman

by secret ASian man on Feb 16, 2005 10:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Well ...
thanks for strengthening my point.
Relax alright don't try to strike everyone out. Strikeouts are boring besides that they're fascist. Throw some ground balls it's more democratic.

by devo on Feb 16, 2005 11:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't roll my eyes enough
I love your last paragraph--well said, Sharon!  There are so many absurdly sweeping generalizations in Bissinger's text that I just don't know where to start.  

by batgirl on Feb 16, 2005 12:58 PM PST reply actions  

what a jerk
and my opinion of larussa has really, really gone down in the last few weeks...

by xbhaskarx on Feb 16, 2005 3:26 PM PST reply actions  

Yeah, I had such fond memories
But I'm feeling less and less affinity for my TLR (minor league) bobblehead. I was away at school for the G bobbler, so, to this point, I still have a very strong affinity for all of the players (/manager) on my shelf ... he's not doing a good job to keep it that way, though.

I wish they had a Matt Stairs bobblehead, btw.

Relax alright don't try to strike everyone out. Strikeouts are boring besides that they're fascist. Throw some ground balls it's more democratic.

by devo on Feb 16, 2005 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I gotta say
that it almost sounds to me like this guy (or his publisher) is trying to capitalize on this book by marketing it as the anti-Moneyball, which is smart, given Moneyball's ridiculous success.

To say that Paul DePodesta or J.P. Ricciardi or David Forst don't love the game is criminal.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Feb 16, 2005 6:44 PM PST reply actions  

MORE than the scout-types
they could be doing something else with their lives, probably making more money, but they chose baseball.

by xbhaskarx on Feb 16, 2005 6:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Great post, Zonk.
It's really a stunningly ignorant excerpt.  If you read much of the "statheads" at all, you have no trouble finding places where they speak ardently and at length about their love for the game.  And many of them research its history and exhume lost stories--Bill James being very prominent among them.

Writing should not be merely the recording on paper of the path of one's random mental maunderings, but requires at least some minimal "due diligence," some effort to ascertain whether your notions correspond to reality.  And as you say, his statements are wrong--not just wrong, but flatly, demonstrably wrong, and easily seen to be so with even the most cursory, lackadaisical effort to find out.  Ol' Buzz Biss's bit doesn't qualify as "thought" at all; it's mere prejudice.  

by Faust on Feb 16, 2005 6:47 PM PST reply actions  

ZONK :)
You remember :)

sigh good times.

by Sharon on Feb 17, 2005 8:28 AM PST up reply actions  

I was one of many...
..who thought Zonk was a guy. That is, until you changed your name.
"I refuse to belong to any club which would accept someone like me as a member." - Groucho Marx

by McFood on Feb 17, 2005 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Even now I still can't help thinking of you
as Zonk.  Or as The Woman Formerly Known As Zonk.

Like McFood, I'd assumed you were a guy, Zonker Harris from Doonesbury being the only precedent I had in mind for your name.  And then one day, I watched as you "morphed."

Good fun, and it was all perfectly legal.

by Faust on Feb 17, 2005 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

hee
Morphing was fun.

I prefer using my real name. The change seems to have quelled the notion that Jennifer and I make a cute couple. Not that I don't like Jennifer...but...ya know. We lean towards the Hudsons, Mulders, and Crosbys :)

by Sharon on Feb 17, 2005 5:08 PM PST up reply actions  

cute couple
"Get a room, you two!"  You mean things like that?

(Not that there's anything wrong with that!)

by Faust on Feb 18, 2005 4:53 AM PST up reply actions  

It was a little more than that...
I think I remember an instance about exchanging IM's so we can hook up or something (eek! Not that there's anything wrong with that!) right before she morphed.

PS- I would like to add Harden to the list of people we lean toward.

by Jennifer on Feb 18, 2005 6:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Harden
Yes, Harden has to be on that list.

by Sharon on Feb 18, 2005 8:16 AM PST up reply actions  

For Sharon -
Sharon-
You clearly love baseball, or you wouldn't be wasting your time with baseball thoughts in February.  

Remember: BOOK WRITERS MAKE MONEY BY SELLING BOOKS.  He's trying to muck around and stir people up; he's also trying to glom onto the popularity of "m-ball" by seeming to answer it.  Believe me, this guy has no answer to it.

Sharon, what struck me most about your post, and I think where you (and many modern A's fans) and Mr. B perhaps differ most.  Baseball has indeed always been about "Personalities" (and their interesting anecdotal stories have molded our view of these personalities).  In the past, your post would have mentioned a prominent and heroic player, but you have pinpointed a prominent and heroic general manager.  In baseball history terms, your attitude is pretty strange.  Fans are supposed to follow PLAYERS, not GMs.  

As we all know, it has been really painful to lose Giambi, Tejada, Hudson, and Mulder, and yet it amazes me how many fans are willing to move on, in the trust of Billy Beane!!!
The only similar historical instances of Cults of Personality for front office folks that I can think of would be for Branch Rickey, Connie Mack or (heaven forbid) George Steinb^$#@%&r, and in each of those cases I think that the players were still the main focuses of fans of their teams (except maybe with Mack in the fifties).

As someone who remembers baseball before there was such a thing as a League Championship Series (the sixties) I find it strange how transient players in the modern era have become.  The new era of fans, I suppose, are more used to it than my (and, I expect, Mr. B's) g-g-g-generation.

So don't worry, Sharon, it's Mr. B who "can't get his mind around this", not you. Go see some baseball games this year (you've got to get into double figures!).  

by Brian in 317 on Feb 16, 2005 8:41 PM PST reply actions  

More baseball games
I should see more. But I suppose money should grow on trees also. :)  I don't live near a team, so I have to plan a semi-expensive trip to go see a game.

As for what you wrote on the "Cult of Personality" behavior that some fans have displayed for front office figures, it is a bit strange. I suppose this strangeness fuels the things written by people like Bissinger. I wonder about fans that may not express their fondness for Beane...maybe it's due to the criticism that BB receives...but maybe it has more to do with the critism that a fan would receive in having a rooting interest for someone who doesn't play on the field. It's okay to root for players like Hudson and Mulder. It's perfectly fine to be upset and sick to your stomach when they're traded. But it's not normal to root for BB, or want to strangle someone when you find out he's leaving for Boston. At least that's what the media tells us.

In a perfect world, I would love to have Hudson, Mulder, AND BB. But it's not perfect, and I'm certain that if I had to choose I'd have Billy make those trades once again.

by Sharon on Feb 17, 2005 8:27 AM PST up reply actions  

TheFull Name
He doesn't understand the full name of Moneyball.  Somewhere the part of how to win at an unfair game was lost.  Is Moneyball hurting the history and passion of the game more than the unbelievable free agent contract?  I don't think so.
Jim

by jarforcefatherofforce on Feb 16, 2005 10:03 PM PST reply actions  

Extreme Old Schoolism
As a fortysomething, I suppose I fall in between the old schoolers and the stat geeks. This guy Buzz certainly doesn't speak for me, and I'm no fan of VORP. I am, however, a huge fan of Billy Beane, in whom I do trust. At the same time, I do appreciate the scouting abilities of Grady Fuson. The two schools of thought need not be mutually exclusive; I think both are necessary. If Buzz doesn't see any merit in the "thirtysomething" approach, he is clearly an idiot and/or is just trying to sell books to bitter old farts.

by silas on Feb 16, 2005 10:22 PM PST reply actions  

Baseball romanticism
There's a long, long history of romanticism when writers turn to baseball.  Moneyball turned that on its head, treating the game's Wise Old Heads (scouts and old school managers) with more than a little contempt.  

As much as I enjoyed Moneyball, I always found that aspect of the book a bit annoying.  I understood Lewis was doing it to make a point, that the assumptions baseball people have made are frequently wrong, leading to marketplace inefficiencies.  But there's a happy medium, something I believe Billy Beane understands.  You can't do everything with a pile of statistics.

I can certainly understand that there's more appeal in hanging around baseball guys, listening to their stories, than in analyzing a bunch of statistics with Ivy League business school graduates.  And the baseball guys aren't always wrong.

But Tony LaRussa isn't the ideal of the old-time baseball guy anyway.  Yeah, he's been around forever, he orders retaliation for beanball pitches in a very old-school way, and says he loves traditional National League baseball.  But he's also the guy who set up his bullpen in a mechanical fashion so that Dennis Eckersley could waltz out for the ninth with no runners to bother him.  His pitching coach was and is a former catcher.  He used plenty of statistics when managing the A's, and he's an animal-loving lawyer for crying out loud.

It's a culture clash, but I also think the whole old school/stathead battle is overstated.

by bear88 on Feb 17, 2005 12:56 AM PST reply actions  

This is why washington would be perfect
I think if Washington stepped in as manager next year, the A's might have a shot at the series because it'd be the perfect balance between statistical logic and 'feel of the game' (whatever that means.

There, I've said my piece.

by tblazrdude on Feb 17, 2005 5:40 AM PST reply actions  

I would like to add...
... that the title "Three Nights in August" sounds like a porn title. Not that I would know anything about that....

by Jennifer on Feb 18, 2005 8:47 AM PST reply actions  

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