Ramon Hernandez best at blocking the plate?

by davebenfremont on Feb 15, 2005 11:26 AM PST Comment 28 comments

Espn.com has this ongoing series for Hot Stove Heaters where they analyze which baseball players are the best at certain specific skills in the game, i.e Best at running the basepaths, best pitching inside, best at picking off baserunners, most patient hitter, etc...
In this article, they conclude from a consensus around the league that Ramon Hernandez is the best catcher at blocking the plate. Here's the link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?=rogers_phil&id=1991902

He apparently barely edged out Bengie Molina. Now I was a big fan of Ramon and was sad to see him go to the Padres. Like most ex-Athletics I root for him when I can. But the one aspect of his game that I thought he lacked was this very quality that he is being singled out for being the best at. In fact the article goes on to point out Pudge Rodriguez's unwillingness to block the plate because of his small size, thereby extending his career.
Maybe I wasn't as observant a A's fan as I thought I was, but I always felt that Ramon had a little fear when it came to blocking the plate. There seemed to be a little uneasiness when it came to putting his body on the line for the team. The article points out that he missed one month with the Padres after a home plate collision. So maybe that's where they are getting all their data.
Maybe my observation of him was not accurate. I may have remembered the few times that he was ineffective at blocking the plate, and not recalled the times that he was able to do it. Anybody out there have any opinions on this? Was Ramon good at blocking home plate? Who's better in your opinion? I would personally choose Bengie Molina or Pudge.

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Pudge doesn't block the plate?

Don't tell that to J.T. Snow.

Hey bartender! I think ol' Jobu needs a refill!

by nothinlikethetown on Feb 15, 2005 11:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of Running Home

I am very supprised there havent been many accidents in Chicago! I mean, JT isnt there to save anyone for Dusty anymore right?

"I still stand firm that Johnny Damon is really Jesus, The Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer..."

by Zonis on Feb 15, 2005 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

holy crap!

you are absolutely correct. i also like ramon, probably one of the better players BB has traded. BUT blocking the plate- no way. it was a constant point of contention when ramon was with the a's.

"And right now you could care less about me But soon enough you will care, by the time I'm done."- The White Stripes; Ball and Biscuit, Elephant (of course!!!)

by bigelephant on Feb 15, 2005 11:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

In fact

I remember at the '04 Fanfest when Ray Fosse introduced Damian Miller saying "and he'll actually block the plate." That satement drew a standing O from the crowd if my memory servers me right. Apparently we don't know anything about baseball here in Oakland. Either that, or the people that wrote the article haven't actually seen Ramon play.

Hey bartender! I think ol' Jobu needs a refill!

by nothinlikethetown on Feb 15, 2005 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i wasn't too impressed with miller

last year. perhaps he was better in the past. i'm talking specifically about plays at the plate, not about general defensive ability.

is it just me or did it seem like every close play at the plate in 2004, a's runners were thrown out and opposing runners scored easily?

by xbhaskarx on Feb 15, 2005 5:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You are right nothinlikethetown

I was there too, and Ray did make such a statement, and many similar statements on TV broadcasts throughout the year. Ray was a real fan of D. Miller as a catcher. Once he sees Kendall play for a few weeks, I am willing to bet that Ray will really go over-board for Kendall. He will make us forget Ramon, and maybe Steiny also.

by robertmelvin on Feb 15, 2005 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ramon was Famous

for NOT blocking the plate.

by silas on Feb 15, 2005 11:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

damn right

in fact, the friggin' reason he gets hurt so often when he DOES stand in front of the plate is probably because he doesn't know HOW to do it correctly!

"And right now you could care less about me But soon enough you will care, by the time I'm done."- The White Stripes; Ball and Biscuit, Elephant (of course!!!)

by bigelephant on Feb 15, 2005 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This is absurd

Phil Rogers is a moron. Peter Gammons is clearly the only ESPN writer who has any idea what he's talking about.

by jmoney on Feb 15, 2005 11:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Hard to believe

I remember that a few years back, Ramon took a hit that might have hurt him a bit. He was very tentative from that point on behind the plate. The A's broadcasters always made mention of Ramon's fear of blocking the plate as well.

I haven't seen him catch a game in San Diego, so I can't comment on how his catching skills have improved or degraded. I wish the best for Ramon and hope he can prosper in S.D.

by FlagsFlyForever on Feb 15, 2005 11:54 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah.

I remember that, I always loved Ramon and it made me sad how gunshy he was about blocking the plate after that incident, it was getting a bit ridiculous. Shocked the heck outta me when I found out that it was why he ended up on the DL -- seems like ESPN managed to pick the one person to completely destroy their credibility!

by Kyli on Feb 15, 2005 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I remember one play

A runner was coming home and Jose Guilen launched a no hop rocket from RF to Ramon who was standing straight up - totally not expecting a ball to arrive. The runner scored uncontested and Ramon stood there with a dumb look on his face.

The throw was perfect and was well ahead of the runner. But our guy Ramon was way outta position and not remotely ready for the play.

I completley disagree with the article.

by Kaybeejay on Feb 15, 2005 12:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Against The Yankees

I recall that play, that was the first game that we had Guillen in RF. Someone hit a single through the left side...and I got excited because I'd heard Guillen had a cannon. I think everyone was surprised how quickly it got to the plate, espececially Ramon, because he was walking up the first base line to field it!

I don't blame Ramon for that play, but to call him the best at blocking the plate is ridiculous, he's a total pansy back there. I-Rod is the best IMHO.

Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein

by FireballerHARDEN on Feb 15, 2005 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Guillen's arm

I too was at the game and remember the throw. There was a gasp from the crowd at that throw. I've been going to games since 1971 and that was unquestionably the strongest throw from the outfield I have seen. And, there was Ramon, standing in front of the plate. As I recall, he didn't even turn around to try and tag the runner.

No, Ramon's strength was not hanging in and protecting the plate. My recollection is that he messed up on close plays at the plate about half the time.

by racodd on Feb 15, 2005 12:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

yep

also has a habit of dropping incoming throws to the plate

by kotsbots on Feb 15, 2005 1:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ichiro

Better than Ichiro hosing T-Long at third with that absolute no-hop laser beam? Was that at the Coliseum?

by applejack on Feb 15, 2005 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I ddin't see the Guillen throw

but that Ichiro throw was awesome. It was at the Coliseum, very early in Ichiro's rookie year IIRC, and when he gunned down T Long I accepted the fact that Ichiro was damn good.

by dubsea on Feb 16, 2005 7:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I was there too

Much as I liked Ramon (he was one A's player I have actually met and talked a bit to) and was sorry to see him leave, blocking the plate was NOT his strong point.

How many sportswriters actually know anything about the A's?

by OaklandSi on Feb 15, 2005 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Great comment...

I was going to comment on this before I saw yopur post. Never forget that play..Ramon looked so ridiculous standing in front of the plate and never even thought to turn and tag.

by OaktownPower on Feb 15, 2005 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Who is this scout, and what is he watching?

Rogers gets a quote on Ramon:

"That guy is fearless,'' one scout said of Hernandez. "Pitchers love him because he's going to do anything he can to help them, even if it means getting crushed by a runner. His technique is really good."

The triple of Jeremy Brown's imagination was, in reality, a home run.

by ArakSOT on Feb 15, 2005 12:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

Maybe the scout gets his Hispanic names mixed up?

by OaktownTribesman on Feb 15, 2005 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You guys don't understand!!!!

Ramon's blocking of the plate is a fine art and therefore he cannot do it very often or it would make it common and it would lose its luster.

Relax alright don't try to strike everyone out. Strikeouts are boring besides that they're fascist. Throw some ground balls it's more democratic.

by devo on Feb 15, 2005 12:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

You're definitely right

I believe Ramon was injured in a pretty nasty collision with a Royals (?) player early in his career. General concensus is that he developed a mental block against it and just got scared. Can't say I really blame him.

by dchu on Feb 15, 2005 2:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Ramon? NO! ... Rincon? Si

Ramon never blocked the plate, he would stand up and cut off throws two steps in front of the plate to avoid doing it.

Ricardo Rincon blocks the plate better than Ramon.

Rincon got spiked on the thigh once at home when he was covering home, and held he the ball !!

Via con dios, Ramon!

2nd favorite team: WHOEVER IS PLAYING THE GIANTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by ConcordFanSince1968 on Feb 15, 2005 3:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Blocking Runners Or Balls

I was thinking about this a little more and I think the concensus from A's fans is that he does not guard against running barrelling down on him. How about from the persepctive of blocking balls in the dirt? Could the award have been giving for best ball blocker? He did handle some nasty splitters from Huddy and Mulder along with a devastating Zito curve. He might have even caught Steve Sparks' knuckleball for a while. I'm not sure what kind of pitchers San Diego runs out there on a daily basis. I think he was considered great at receiving pitches. I'll give him that, blocking runners, "NO!"

by FlagsFlyForever on Feb 15, 2005 5:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah.

I think if the award were based on that, I'd totally give it to him -- the guy could handle anything the pitchers threw at him. But the wording of the article seems to imply it's about runners.

by Kyli on Feb 15, 2005 8:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not only was he poor at blocking the plate

but as kotsbots correctly points out, he was terribly consistent at failing to catch the ball, make the tag, and hang onto the ball.

He didn't play the plate as if he was saying to himself, "No way those bastards are going to score on me!" but rather "Please don't let there be a play at the plate." So on the Guillen play, I think he decided early on, with relief, that there would be no play at the plate. When Guillen uncorked a monster throw, he had plenty of time to step back into position, but I think that having felt the relief of not having to make a play at the plate, he wasn't willing to change his position and accept that there would be a play after all. Even after he caught the damn ball he still had time to swipe back and make a tag at the runner going by, but he didn't even look, didn't move a muscle in that direction. These were the actions of a man who (not consciously, but at some level) just didn't want a play to happen, and made that desire into reality. You aren't going to be good at something that you're mentally shying away from.

Unfair amateur psychologizing? Sure. But he didn't deserve the benefit of the doubt on that play. He didn't just give up on the play as a momentary lapse of judgment, but rather the act of giving up on the play was a sustained act that he had plenty of time to reverse. It was pretty apparent from the pissed-off reaction of his teammates that they weren't buying the explanation that he was just so surprised by the awesome throw that he couldn't react in time.

I do like Ramon, and I will never, ever forget his career moment, the walk-off bunt. But this aspect of his game was infuriating.

And Phil Rogers is a blithering idiot. ESPN is systematically purging its smart writers.

by Faust on Feb 15, 2005 5:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs