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Drinking the Kool Aid

For those of you that are newer to this site, I'm proud to say that I drank the Beane-flavor Kool Aid.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again, the man knows how to cover for his mistakes.  First, Kotsay for Hernandez and Terrence Long.  Now, Kendall for Rhodes and Redman.  

It's just wondrous to watch the man work.  He should do children's parties.  Watch him stuff Redman and Rhodes into a top hat and pull out Kendall.  Beane the Magnificent.  

I love this trade for Kendall, and I think Faust did an excellent job of dissecting it below (This is why I love the diary function on AN because the opportunity for the community to make such an argument is unprecendented in the sports blogging world).

Does this also give Beane additional trading chips to help the team out down the stretch in 2005?  Chips named Baker, Brown, Suzuki and Powell?  Every team wants a great young catcher and since our big club is set in that position for the next three seasons (barring trades), is it possible that Billy uses those youngsters as his "orange chips?"

You can use this thread for more discussion of Kendall's addition and what this means for the future of the Big Three as well as other tremors through the organization.  

I'm going to go back to playing MVP Baseball 2004 on my XBox and drinking my Kool Aid.  Oh, not that it means anything, but Kendall hit two home runs in his first two swings in his first two at-bats after I traded for him.

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update
 us on the stats of kendall in MVP... who knows, a 400 HR season is due for everyone.

by ucla kid on Nov 27, 2004 9:52 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

High heat baseball 2002
Right after I heard the news of this trade I simed a season on High heat baseball 2002 with Jason Kendall behind the Dish for our A's.  .320, .419, .496, with 31 doubles and 15 homers.  Only 5 steals though (I have the steal function on the A's manager page set to a low setting.).  I like it.

by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 28, 2004 7:45 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey Blez,
Can you ask your XBox Kendall to show our new catcher that power stroke?  That might alleviate some of the misgivings people are having.

Anyway with this trade we may have acquired that 100-RBI guy people want.  His name is Eric Chavez.  Or maybe Erubiel Durazo.  (Or both?)  It's easier to drive in Jason Kendall from first or second base than it is to drive in Mark McLemore from the seat he took in the dugout after grounding out.

by Faust on Nov 27, 2004 10:01 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why be so kind?
It should be easier to drive in Jason Kendall from 1st or 2nd base than it was to drive in McLemore from 3rd.

by grover on Nov 27, 2004 10:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Come now
Suzuki an "orange chip"?  Huh?  Let the kid at least get to AA... I mean, really, now, I was just watching him in the College Baseball postseason a few months ago.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

by scareduck on Nov 27, 2004 11:21 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

USS Mariner on the trade
These guys have a very good blog over there (at least one of them works for Baseball Prospectus), and while the numbers they cite don't necessarily mesh with what I have seen, they are generally pretty pissed that Billy Beane was able to pull this off. My favorite part was a comment made by one of their readers:

I swear that Billy Beane is satan.

We need to have some kind of advertising campaign for the other poor 29 teams that have to deal with this.

"Just say no! It may sound cool now, maybe some of your friends are doing it, but dealing with Billy Beane will destroy your team, your family, and your internal organs"

Jesus, the guy could sell ice to eskimos...then steal all of it! Then take their clothes and charge them $10 each for the trouble!

by jmoney on Nov 28, 2004 12:59 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Billy Beane is THE BEST!
That's funny, jmoney..and fan reaction from other blogs is a great idea - reality check? especially since you seem to have some respect for the quality of the posts. Thanks for that.

by LongTimeFan on Nov 28, 2004 12:32 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Comments from the Pirates blog
Just another example of Beane at his best. It must be a bleak Sunday morning in Pittsburgh realizing that there " Crown Jewel " was traded for two marginal players. And yes, Beane could sell ice to eskimos..... then steal all of it.
This is highway robbery at it's best!

by Mikkoo on Nov 28, 2004 1:45 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you're being too hard on Beane
Yes, he could sell ice to eskimos!

   ...but he wouldn't steal it back!

   ...he'd talk them in to giving it back!
         -with a smile on their faces!  ;-)

by Bleed Green on Nov 29, 2004 9:10 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

AL WEST ETC.
Kendall for Rhodes and Redman?
Amazing, maybe Schott will open his eyes (and his wallet.) Look at what is happening in the AL West. ESPN mentioned two deals in the works up in Seattle; Carlos Delgado and Richie Sexson, nothing definite, just a rumor, not unlike Kendall was last week. Plus  you know Moreno is going to get something down south. The AL West gets tougher every season. We all know with just a bit more money Beane can do wonders.

After watching Swisher in Phoenix last spring I wasn't overly immpressed. However I feel his time spent in Sac really improved his game. Now all can see is Swish flying out of nowhere to snag that ball. He may not have the arm of Dye but he looked good at the plate, patient and capable of doing the job.

by DC in WC on Nov 28, 2004 8:04 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Swisher...
Hurt his wrist in Spring Training last year.  Probably why you weren't impressed.  He just had surgery to repair the problem, so who knows how good Swish can be playing injury free for 140-150 games.
Let's Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on Nov 28, 2004 9:37 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I saw him play
Verse the D'Backs. He hit a bomb off Casey Daigle, so while i was there, he did pretty well.
Beanetown Baby

by ohad on Nov 28, 2004 10:36 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It is possible
We may actually be thanking our lucky stars that we DIDN'T make the postseason last season. We knew we couldn't handle the Red Sox - it would've been ANOTHER demoralizing 1st round exit. Instead, perhaps Schott is starting to see that you can only get so far by skimping on a baseball club. You don't have to be the Yankees, but you pretty much have to have cash. Except for the '03 Marlins, nobody in recent memory has won a title with a low payroll ('02 Angels? No. '01 Dbacks? No.).

by rickeytime on Nov 28, 2004 10:34 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Predictions
Forget track record, scouting, statistical projections... The best predictor of future performance has always been the good ol' baseball video games! :)

by OaktownTribesman on Nov 28, 2004 8:09 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

let's give ownership it's due
...we've all taken potshots at the oakland ownership over the yrs. but the fact is over the last 3-4 yrs. payroll has increased. this trade is another example of a committment to win.

begrudgingly i applaud schott, etc.

NOW JUST SIGN HUDDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ElephantCrew Rules

by bigelephant on Nov 28, 2004 10:18 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ownership
Schott could be pumping money into the payroll in order to make the A's lineup more attractive to potential buyers. While Hoffmann is willing to pump money into a new stadium as part of his "legacy" (read it in an article).

Will Lewis Wolff be the new A's owner in 2007 and beyond?

by OaktownTribesman on Nov 28, 2004 11:40 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lewis Wolff
If he was Owner we will move to San Jose and start winning strings of championships with our high payroll.

by paul75 on Nov 28, 2004 1:09 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Payroll
We always talk about how the A's are a "low-payroll" team, but in fact the A's are right smack dab in the middle of the league in that respect.  Schlegel's article on MLB.com makes it sound like Pittsburgh and Oakland are equally low-budget teams, but that's not the case.  Yes, our payroll is half of what Yankees, Red Sox, Angels spend, but at the same time it's twice that of Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Milwaukee.

by iglew on Nov 29, 2004 2:35 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Beane's dealings more impressive at lower levels
While I applaud the successful deals he's made for The Big Team, it seems that the real scores have been made lower down on the organization's food chain, where Beane's bets seem to pay off in hundredfold fashion every year. How much would it cost to get, say, Bobby Crosby the way Those East Coast Teams do it (i.e., after he's proven himself in las grandes ligas and jacked his price up)? The A's farm system is bursting at the seams with ungodly valuable prospects, while the Yankees' farm just has a few tumbleweeds blowing past the buzzard-pecked bones of their dead livestock.

by AlamedaAphid on Nov 28, 2004 12:50 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A little perspective
Our farm system isn't exactly bursting with prospects, but IMHO we have one of the best player development programs, the other being the Twins'. If all our prospects were to be transferred to another, lesser farm system, they'd pan out at a much lower rate. However, we have a proven track record of churning out solid big leaguers, regardless of the actual amount of talent in our farm system.

It's doubtful that the Reds or Brewers would ever have developed Crosby or Harden (the list is even greater) the way the A's did. Beane has acknowledged that we have hands down the best player development director in Lieppman. I tend to agree.

by OaktownTribesman on Nov 28, 2004 12:58 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Our farm system
Gammons said in his last Diamond Notes that two different organizations he surveyed said the four best farm systems were Anaheim, Minnesota, Atlanta, and us.

by jmoney on Nov 28, 2004 5:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes
Key words there: "farm system". We have one of the best farm systems. That doesn't mean that we have the best prospects, though. It just means that more of our prospects will eventually pan out and be solid contributors, due to our successful player development program.

by OaktownTribesman on Nov 28, 2004 6:52 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

re: Swisher 2005?
 If Swisher is the everyday right fielder in 2005, I think we have to anticipate/accept that he may have (at best, assuming he's the real deal) a "rookie-type" season. Harkening back to Mulder (9-10), Tejada, and Crosby, this means looking good, looking like he "belongs," while still only putting up so-so numbers as a prelude to a breakout season in 2006 or 2007.

 So even if 2005 is a "go-for-it" season for the A's, that doesn't mean you can accelerate a player's progress "just because." I wouldn't count on better than a .240 avg, .320 OBP for a first full season. Anything better = gravy. Of course, you have to take with a grain of salt anyone who mentions gravy just three days after Thanksgiving. Ooh, did somebody mention salt?

  OK, that's it--I clearly have a serious addiction to Thanksgiving leftovers. The only solution is to quit cold turkey.

  Get it?

Nico

by Nico on Nov 28, 2004 1:24 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

as long as
the defense is good and he gives us HRs and walks, it's all gravy-train

by ucla kid on Nov 28, 2004 4:46 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

SO's
Can we safely make the assumption he won't whiff as much as Crosby?

by AlwaysSweatin on Nov 29, 2004 10:08 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

is Swisher supposed to be strong defensively?
I haven't noticed that much in articles about him. But if he is then I feel better about him starting every day in the outfield.

by OaklandSi on Nov 28, 2004 5:24 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Slusser and Eric Byrnes: big 3 stay
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/11/28/SPGRNA2RUC1.DTL

A done deal: Kendall to A's
Pirates take Rhodes, Redman; will pay part of catcher's salary

Susan Slusser, Chronicle Staff Writer
Sunday, November 28, 2004

Jason Kendall officially became a member of the A's on Saturday. The addition of the pricey All-Star catcher signals that Oakland plans to contend again in 2005 and is willing to add to the payroll to do so.

"More than anything, to me, the biggest part of this whole trade is that it shows the organization is committed to winning a championship,'' A's outfielder Eric Byrnes said.

Kendall is owed $34 million over the next three years, but in sending pitchers Arthur Rhodes and Mark Redman to the Pirates, the A's are shedding two contracts worth a combined $15 million over the next two seasons. (That was a primary reason the trade was able to be completed, according to GM Billy Beane.) Oakland will send $1 million to Pittsburgh each of the next two years, and will get back $7 million in 2007, when Kendall will be due $13 million. So overall, signing Kendall only adds a total of $14 million to the A's payroll if he remains the full three seasons. Beane stressed that he acquired Kendall to keep him, contrary to some reports.

"Everyone understood the need for us to acquire a catcher,'' said Beane, who described Kendall as a great offensive catcher in the prime of his career. "People can see the market for catching is going quickly. Some big-market teams need catching, so we didn't want to wait.''

And the A's didn't settle for either of their modestly priced free-agent targets, Gregg Zaun and Doug Mirabelli. There had been suggestions in the national media that Oakland would be in a rebuilding mode after failing to make the playoffs for the first time in five years. With that came rampant speculation that Beane would trade one of the Big Three, pitchers Barry Zito, Mark Mulder and Tim Hudson.

Redman was the team's fifth starter, however, which means that the A's don't have starting pitching to deal unless they were to obtain a reliable starter in return.

"It kind of makes sense not to break those guys up at this point, because you've traded a starter away,'' Byrnes said. "I can't see the organization wanting to do that unless they absolutely needed to or unless we get something great in return.''

Kendall, who hit .319 with 51 RBIs last year, is an upgrade offensively at catcher (Damian Miller hit .272 with nine homers and 58 RBIs last year for the A's). Kendall's a lifetime .306 hitter with a career .387 on-base percentage. The one thing he lacks is power (three homers last year, 67 in his nine-year career), but Beane won't necessarily look to add a big bat, not even a relatively cheap option such a free-agent Juan Gonzalez. Beane said in a conference call that he's fine with the outfield as currently projected, with Byrnes, Mark Kotsay and rookie Nick Swisher starting, with Bobby Kielty also available. The A's essentially are done talking to their own free-agent right fielder, Jermaine Dye, whom they'd considered bringing back for one year if he didn't find another spot to his liking.

"It looks like going in, Swisher will probably fill that spot,'' Beane said.

If no slugger is added, the offense may have a different approach, especially with Kendall near the top of the order.

"This guy can put the ball in play, can hit-and-run and he doesn't strike out much,'' A's manager Ken Macha said. "The way he handles the bat, there are a lot of things we can do.''

Kotsay, last year's leadoff batter much of the season, suggested that Kendall might hit leadoff, as he did with Pittsburgh, but with left-handed batting Eric Chavez hitting third, it's more likely that Kendall will hit second, behind Kotsay.

Rookie Joe Blanton is the best bet for the fifth spot in the rotation, and recent addition Seth Etherton also is a possibility. The odd man out may land in the bullpen, and 2004 first-round draft pick Huston Street also is considered an option in relief, according to Beane.

The one spot Beane might look to beef up is second base, because Mark Ellis' status remains uncertain as he attempts to return from a season-ending shoulder injury, leaving Marco Scutaro as Oakland's only sure-fire second baseman. The A's have been in contact with Barry Larkin's agent, and, according to reports, they have inquired about Atlanta All-Star Marcus Giles, although it would take a Big Three member to land that caliber of player.

Beane said that Adam Melhuse will remain the A's backup catcher, as expected. With the addition of Kendall, the team will not have to rush any of its excellent minor-league catching prospects, according to Beane, who isn't worried about having a glut of talent at the position.

by OaklandSi on Nov 28, 2004 6:02 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sucking Up
Byrnes said: "More than anything, to me, the biggest part of this whole trade is that it shows the organization is committed to winning a championship."

Hmmm, that sounds like Byrnes is also drinking the Beane-flavored Kool-Aid... Anything to get land the starting LF job and a contract extension, right Byrnesie? :)

by OaktownTribesman on Nov 28, 2004 7:19 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

poker face
of course, everyone knows the A's are locked up at catcher for the next few years, so I imagine their catching prospects are a little less valuable since everyone knows this. beane can't plausibly say well, this brown kid's really been tearing up AAA, so we're planning on moving him up...but if you've got something to offer...

that said, i love this deal. kendall's an on base machine and it looks like the big 3 will probably stay in oakland. we'll need as much as we can get since i guarantee the angels will sign at least one huge free agent.

by scooter o on Nov 28, 2004 7:16 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Catching Prospects
This isn't fantasy football...If we have them, and "they" don't, how does that make them less valuable?  It's very apparent that Billy has scene the catching position become very weak throughout all of baseball.  Thus, loading up on as many blue chip catching prospects will help fill actual Big Club "needs" in the future.
Let's Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on Nov 29, 2004 7:16 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

haha, MVP baseball as predictor
You should drink the Kool-aid if you use MVP Baseball to predict Kendall. I could use rafael belliard and hit 4 HRs in that game.

Kendall trade is ok. I guess less Rhodes and less Redman is always great. Addition by subtraction. I don't seriously believe the A's are expecting much out of Kendall. Eric Chavez has to wake the fock up. Look at Beltre--one of the best seasons out of a 3B, playing in another pitcher's park Chavez Ravine. Eric Chavez is consistently good, no greatness. I don't think he will ever have a breakout season. But I digress.

Kendall realistic outlook

(+)
Share leadership w/ Hudson. Eric Chavez will never be leader, and hopefully, he can give 40 HR power.
super D
no more Rhodes/redman.
(bonus)
scores runs 80-100.
hit .300, stay out of groundouts.

Yup, that is their realistic expectation. I really think the A's are not concerned about his OBP or his SLUG percentage. the guy has only gap power.

by suggy on Nov 29, 2004 10:07 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kendall not known for super D
He has worked on his Defense and improved over the years. Yet his allstar status seems entirely due to his offense. Last year -- one of his better defensive years -- he committed 10 errors.

So it looks like the A's will accept some defensive dropoff, in exchange for his offense and leadership qualities.

by OaklandSi on Nov 29, 2004 10:11 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

error stats
Miller has low errors because once a runner got to a certain point, Miller's arm couldn't catch up so he pulls it back.

Kendall at least still has a chance when he throws it to 2B, and if some of his throws sails away, then so be it.

I think Pass Balls would be a better defensive indicator for catchers. Aggressive catchers will surely have a higher error.

but i agree the same, Kendall needs to step up his defense regardless.

by suggy on Nov 29, 2004 10:19 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2nd Base...
Beane indicated in his recent press conference that 2nd. base is still an issue meaning the return of Ellis is in doubt. What will the A's do?
Jim

by jarforcefatherofforce on Nov 29, 2004 10:08 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2B Giles
If they can get Marcus Giles...hahaha.  That is Beane's wishlist. Struck out on Brian Giles and hopefully, they can get his brother. Now that would be a real boost to the offense.

by suggy on Nov 29, 2004 10:11 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sign polanco
...the guy would be awesome in a a's uni. there's our 2 hole hitter.
ElephantCrew Rules

by bigelephant on Nov 30, 2004 5:21 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We already have a two hole hitter
Why would we spend 4 million more to sign another one.
Beanetown Baby

by ohad on Nov 30, 2004 5:26 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

bat him wherever...
...you want. he'd be a great pick up defensively/ofensively.
ElephantCrew Rules

by bigelephant on Nov 30, 2004 6:04 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Guzman
Christian Guzman got 4 years, 16 million. I think Polanco will demand more than that. With both the Red Sox and Yankees looking for an upgrade at 2B, I think he'll get it.

by OaktownTribesman on Nov 30, 2004 6:38 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i thought i heard...
ny was resigning cairo, if they're after polanco then i'd sign cairo.

boston is in tough with cabarra- wants 5 yrs- boston saying go to hell. if they want polanco for shortstop, then i think that's a mistake. he's much better at 2nd.

money-wise. i'd agree. if he wants more than
4 mm then i might walk away. it depends on what you want to do at other positions i.e. trade hatteburg and his 2.5 mm ass and replace with johnson.

ElephantCrew Rules

by bigelephant on Nov 30, 2004 7:10 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sorry...
sp on cabrera
ElephantCrew Rules

by bigelephant on Nov 30, 2004 8:43 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What about Barry Larkin?
Giles would be too one of the big three costly so Larkin would be less cost prohibitive. Maybe he could platoon with Quintanilla or with Ellis? Any thoughts?

by A'sfansince1970 on Nov 29, 2004 8:46 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Barry Larkin
I don't think Larkin wants to move to 2B.  I heard it from somewhere....
"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." - Spaceballs

by secret ASian man on Nov 29, 2004 11:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if Larkin won't consider 2B
then there's no reason to even consider him. the a'sare set at SS and only need a utility infielder -- who can play more than one base -- to occasionally spell Crosby.

by OaklandSi on Nov 30, 2004 5:04 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is Q ready?
Hate to push the lad along, but there is our second baseman of the future.  

by mikedaviswhereareyou on Nov 30, 2004 8:37 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not ready...
  1. needs to learn a new position.
  2. has not yet proven he can hit big league pitching.
ElephantCrew Rules

by bigelephant on Nov 30, 2004 8:40 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Q
He had a great AFL but he's only spent half a season above A-ball. He needs some time at AAA before he's ready for the Show.

by grover on Nov 30, 2004 9:18 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not to Rain on Q's Parade...
...but since he hasn't even proven he can hit California League pitching, maybe we're rushing him a bit.

by jrbh on Nov 30, 2004 10:47 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What are you talking about?
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/profiles/QU/tbc33770.asp

Q hit .314 in the Cal League in 452 ABs. Are you sure you weren't looking at the wrong guy?

by grover on Nov 30, 2004 10:49 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he isn't ready...
...25 some odd games in AA doesn't prove anything. plus he needs to learn 2nd base.

p.s. great link though!!!

it's OK to steal-just don't let billy see ya.

by bigelephant on Nov 30, 2004 11:10 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Q... more like "q"
I agree he's not ready, I was just wondering why jrbh felt that way.

by grover on Nov 30, 2004 12:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i think the point is...
...the "parade" hasn't even started yet!!!
ElephantCrew Rules

by bigelephant on Nov 30, 2004 10:51 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Q in the CL
I think I'm being influenced by the one time I saw him play, in a CL playoff game, in which he looked like a tentative, banjo-hitting waste of space for five straight ABs.

His CL stats are pretty good, you're right, although his walks total isn't too impressive.

by jrbh on Nov 30, 2004 10:59 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What about Scutaro?
Isn't he capable to platoon with Ellis until he's 100% or until Q is ready? Or is one more year of Scutaro a bad thought? Go A's!
GO A's!

by mitche82865 on Nov 30, 2004 11:00 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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