SWISHER TRADED
by OaklandA23 on Jan 3, 2008 11:33 AM PST
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Print[EDITOR'S NOTE: The house cleaning continues with Billy Beane trading one his supposed "favorites". This does make sense in the fact that Swisher is 27 years old and Beane is apparently instituting a rule that no one over 24 can play for the team this year. - Blez]
Swisher to the Chicago White Sox
A’s Trade OF Nick Swisher to Chicago White Sox
Acquire LHP Gio Gonzalez, RHP Fautino De Los Santos and OF Ryan Sweeney
OAKLAND, Calif. - The Oakland A’s today traded outfielder Nick Swisher to the Chicago White Sox for left-handed pitcher Gio Gonzalez, right-handed pitcher Fautino De Los Santos and outfielder Ryan Sweeney.
Gonzalez led all of minor league baseball with 185 strikeouts while pitching for Double-A Birmingham last year. He was 9-7 with a 3.18 ERA in 27 games, all starts, for the Barons and was named to the Southern League midseason and postseason All-Star teams. The 22-year old left-hander also ranked fourth in the SL in ERA and led SL starters with a .216 opponents batting average. Gonzalez was originally drafted by the White Sox as a compensation pick (38th selection overall) between the first and second rounds of the 2004 First-Year Player Draft. He is 31-28 with a 3.49 ERA in 91 career minor league appearances, 89 starts, and has 577 strikeouts in 492.1 innings.
De Los Santos was named the South Atlantic League’s Most Outstanding Major League Prospect and was also named to the SAL midseason and postseason All-Star teams in 2007 after going 9-4 with a 2.40 ERA and .148 opponents batting average in 21 games, 15 starts at Single-A Kannapolis. He also made five starts for Single-A Winston-Salem and combined at both stops for a 10-5 record and a 2.65 ERA in 26 games, 20 starts. The 21-year old Dominican native ranked second in the White Sox farm system in ERA, third in strikeouts (153) and fourth in wins. De Los Santos pitched for the World Team in the 2007 Futures Game in San Francisco in just his second professional season. He has 214 strikeouts in 170.2 career innings.
Sweeney was named the White Sox number one prospect by Baseball America entering the 2007 season and hit .270 with 10 home runs and 47 RBI in 105 games at Triple-A Charlotte. He also hit .200 with a home run and five RBI in 15 games with Chicago and is a .213 career hitter in 33 games over two seasons with the White Sox. The 22-year old left-handed hitting outfielder played for the Arizona Fall League Champion Phoenix Desert Dogs following the season and hit .286 with a home run and 13 RBI in 23 games. Sweeney was originally drafted by the White Sox in the second round of the 2003 draft and will be added to the A’s 40-man roster, which now stands at 40.
Swisher batted .262 with 22 home runs and 78 RBI in 150 games with the A’s last year in his third full season in the Majors. He added 100 walks for a .381 on-base percentage and he had career highs in batting, on-base percentage, walks and doubles (36). The 27-year old switch-hitter ranked sixth in the American league in walks and was 10th in strikeouts (131). Swisher is a .251 career hitter with 80 home runs and 255 RBI in 458 games. His 80 home runs are a franchise record for a switch-hitter and his .361 on-base percentage ranks ninth in Oakland history.
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Shit
I guess that makes it offal
Damn. That's it.
Anyone want a genuine MLB hairpiece signed by Swisher?
Not that surprising
With the acquisition of Carter, Cunningham and Gonzalez to go along with Barton, Cust, Denorfia, and Buck, the A's have a real organizational strength in 1B/DH/Corner OFs. Gonzalez will be a candidate for a rotation spot as soon as 2008, and De Los Santos is a legit prospect. Sweeney is pretty meh to me, but he could have trade value and is great value as a throw-in.
Addendum
According to BP, we obtained the #1, #2, and #8 prospect from the White Sox system. It hurts to lose Haren and Swisher, but the A's have gone from one of the least talented organizations in baseball to one of the Top 5 systems with the two trades.
by BlameChannel53 on Jan 3, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
My money is on Street.
Buy throwback jerseys
Because current A's jerseys get old real fast.
by oaklandSMASH on Jan 3, 2008 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
You should be expecting a phone call ...
from OaklandA23 in the next couple of hours
I believe we have an emerging consensus
Shit.
< hangs jury >
I've been agitating for a Swisher trade ... well, for probably over a year. And this looks like a really good haul of high-ceiling, near-ready players.
Yeah
Why not just clean house completely? Don't do it halfway. I loved Swish, just like I loved Haren, but you might as well go all the way.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2008 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
We should trade you Blez. I'm sure we'd get a
haul for you when considering how bad that "other" blog is for that "other" LA team.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jan 3, 2008 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
This is a great trade
Billy Beane robbed Kenny Williams a third time on this one.
by BlameChannel53 on Jan 3, 2008 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
especially when you consider Carter and Cunningha
We have a lot of former White Sox prospects now.
Don't forget, though...
Kenny Williams: 1 World Series Championship
Billy Beane: 0
Beane played 37 games for the '89 A's
that's something...
I Agree... Great Trade!!!!
Swisher is a good guy and a solid major leaguer, but he was overmatched by top pitchers. Yes, he's versatile, but the A's have a lot of guys to play right, left and first.
The A's truly needed a few top-tier up-and-coming pitchers and, by all accounts, they picked up two of the top minor league stud pitchers in baseball.
(Of course, Dan Meyer was once one of the top minor league stud pitchers in baseball.)
Excellent trade for the A's!
I say they hold onto Blanton and Street until the season and see which contender needs pitching help.
What I'd really like to see the A's do now is upgrade the scouting department (our drafts haven't been so hot recently) and improve/expand some of the overseas baseball academies.
This means we can play Kotsay AND Denorfia!
Gonzalez could (probably not unitl June)
Gonzalez is pretty polished and could skip AAA. De Los Santos is a couple of years away, but he is a more polished version of Henry Rodriguez. De Los Santos is a candidate for best pitching prospect in baseball if he continues to improve this year; his stuff is that good.
by BlameChannel53 on Jan 3, 2008 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
Gio might
With Fautino, Cahill, Brett Anderson, and Henry Rodriguez, Beane is collecting a lot of very good young pitching prospects with high ceilings.
Have to think on it, but . . .
the A's might now have the best group of starting pitcher prospects in baseball. Tampa Bay has a very good group, can't really think of anyone else who has as deep a group as the A's.
by BlameChannel53 on Jan 3, 2008 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
hells bells
this just sucks. I really loved having Swish on the team. Setting aside talent, future performance, value, blah blah, he was one hell of a fan friendly player who brought a lot to being an A's fan. I remember him at the end of the last game of the season walking down the third base stands handing all his extra gear out to the kids. I will really, really miss his personality. Not to mention his interviews on the post game show.
Boooooooooo!
AAAaaaaah!
No more "Country Roads"!
by popcornjames on Jan 3, 2008 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
This one
will really be hard to digest. Swish was one of my favorite players. I was just watching one of his many A's pregame interviews on Comcast Ch 36 On Demand last night. I feel like I lost a close relative. :(
by sf drift king on Jan 3, 2008 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
We all lose
No more of this:
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jan 3, 2008 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
Please
not Ellis, please, not Ellis, please, not Ellis, please. Please.
Well even if you click your heels
three times, that still doesn't mean it won't happen. Unfortunately ;-)
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Wow....wasnt a huge Swish guy...
But this is going to be the worst offense we have ever seen. Goodness.
Wow...I am SHOCKED
no...really, really shocked. Did NOT see that one coming.
during winter meetings
There were a few stories mentioning that White Sox were interested in Swish. I remember seeing it on MLB Trade Rumors.
Granted, there were a LOT of rumors that week, and most of them never turned out, but this wasn't completely out of nowhere.
wrong Chicago team
My bad. I just reviewed MLB Trade Rumors -- looks like it was the Cubs who were expressing interest in Swish last month.
But the White Sox had been saying for some time they were looking to add hitters who were more patient and took more walks.
chemistry
the clubhouse is going to be awfully serious in 2008 with Swisher gone and presumably a sub-500 season.
It will be interesting to see how hitting in the White Sox lineup affects Swisher's batting stats.
by bolt on Jan 3, 2008 11:25 AM PST reply actions
on the plus side ...
... no more pulled hammies from participating in his HR dance routines.
I think it is more the park
than the lineup.....The Cell is a fantasic HR park
by OaktownPower on Jan 3, 2008 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
Couldn't they have traded someone else or not
let the farm get depleted? Fuck me. This just absolutely sucks. So hard to root for this team. We have zero offense and we trade our 'star' hitter/face of the franchise/coolest guy on the planet who is signed at low cost through 2012?
Keeping the screen name?
by franks a lot on Jan 3, 2008 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
maybe he smokes
and was born in 1974?
by popcornjames on Jan 3, 2008 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
OMG! The heart and soul is gone
I loved Nick. He was so refreshing, funny, and honest. What a blow to fans. Is there no one sacred on this team? This is so so sad to hear.
Can I get my season ticket money back?
Punch in the stomach
Holy crap. This had better be worth it.
I got Moneyball for Christmas and am in the final stretch. My appreciation for Swisher has just grown and then WHAM-- he gets traded.
I haven't even looked to see who they got in return. Holy crap. I thought Swisher would be the one constant.
Crap! I shoulda known he'd be gone...
after getting my daughter a Swish bobblehead for Christmas.
I'm beginning to think that
having a bobblehead as an Athletic is a curse.
Which doesn't bode well for Ellis.
by popcornjames on Jan 3, 2008 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
Raise prices and trade the coolest/most down to
earth player on the planet? At least we have a shit 3B and shit CF signed to big money. Way to go Billy!
From MLB.com Radio....
Concerning the A's : "Wow, this team does not look good...They're going to have alot of trouble scoring runs." (No shit Sherlock....)
Lots of talk about Swisher batting lead-off for the Sox. Not a bad idea. .381 OBP and Thome, Konerko, et.al in the middle of the lineup.
The problem is that the White Sox
actually like to steal bases.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2008 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah
It's hard to believe that a manager like Ozzie who worships at the altar of small-ball would do something unconventional like bat Swisher at the top of the order.
Even with Swisher, the White Sox are likely to suck anyway. They had the worst offense in the AL last year, nearly 50 runs worse than ours, and they're in a division with Detroit and Cleveland. If anyone should be rebuilding by stocking up on prospects, it's them.
probably. He is more than just a player and had
a huge OBP as well.
by SwisherSweet33 on Jan 3, 2008 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
I call bias based on the username.
Can't hit breaking balls, can't hit for average, will probably never be a big home run hitter either. Gets a lot of singles, a good collection of doubles, and walks a lot. Not a typical middle of the lineup guy, but could thrive as a leadoff batter in Chicago's order.
The guy hit ****ing 35 home runs
two seasons ago.
I think that qualifies as "ever".
Good for him.
21 and 22 between that, and he hasn't had a 100 RBI season yet. At this point, 35 is the outlier.
And I said "will probably never be a big home run hitter." 35 isn't all that impressive for a guy you try to build your offense around, anyway.
He's just not really a slugger at this stage of his career.
He's going to a launching pad
I would be genuinely shocked if he hit less than 30 next season.
Fair enough.
If he didn't walk as much as he does he'd just be another .250 hitter with decent pop and a great personality. Nothing special at all.
If Ryan Howard didn't homer as much
he'd just be another .250 hitter with decent pop and a great personality. Nothing special at all.
Swisher has DECENT pop, Howard is a power hitter
and always has been.
by theblackpearl on Jan 3, 2008 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
You guys seem to be missing the point
which is that you can't sever out random stats and then say that "this guy wouldn't be that good if not for x". How good would Joba Chamberlain be with an 88MPH fastball? How good would Johan Santana be with an average changeup?
Who cares?
I think *you're* missing the point
Swisher's HRs went 21-35-22.
"Subtract" those 13-14 HRs from '06, and he's good, but not all that impressive.
No one's saying or even implying subtract all his HRs.
No one's saying or implying anything about HRs
Flashfire was saying subtract out his walk rate. Which IS exceptional and has been since he came up.
Take out 25% of Swisher's walks and he's...
...got a decent walk rate.
Take out 25% of Howard's home runs and he's still a slugger.
Take out 25% of Ichiro's batting average
and he's a below-average hitter.
This is not a mathematical operation that applies across all baseball statistics. You have to consider average (and replacement level) production.
Stretch my point?
You just proposed a completely invalid statistical comparison.
Who's stretching a point?
Yeah, what a bad thing that I should...
...expect Swisher to have a better average and OBP for someone who walks so much.
What are you trying to get at?
Ryan Howard is obviously a better player than Nick Swisher (though not by as much as you think, thanks to park effects).
If you take away a good chunk of either player's primary skill, obviously he isn't going to be nearly as good of a player.
Duh.
What's your point?
And you're the one ...
who tried to take away 25% of Swisher's primary skill ... that's what doesn't make sense and is at the core of the argument.
It's all pretty simple, really.
Nick Swisher is not a great hitter. Ichiro is, with or without walks. Howard is a great home run hitter and there's no debate about that.
The only reason Swisher has a good OBP is because of his walks, because he sure hasn't shown the capability of converting enough of those walks into would-be hits to compensate.
People who walk as much as he does should be disciplined enough at the plate to have a higher batting average.
Of the eleven hitters in the Majors last year with 100+ walks, Swisher's OBP was the WORST of them all. His SLG was second lowest (just above Hafner) and his OPS was the worst as well (just below Hafner).
2006? 13 players with 100+ walks. Swisher was 3 away from that and had he made only Dunn's OBP would've been worse than his, only Giles, Ensberg & Dunn's SLG would've been worse than his, and the same three's OPS would've been worse than his as well.
So please, don't sit here and tell me Swisher's exceptional offensively just because he walks a lot. He's not. Don't try to throw out other examples of players that have nothing to do with him, either.
So let me see if I can sum up your argument ...
Nick Swisher was not as good as Barry Bonds, Todd Helton, Pat Burell, David Ortiz, Ryan Howard, Jack Cust, Carlos Pena, Travis Hafner, Adam Dunn or Grady Sizemore?
I agree. I'll take it further. He wasn't as good as Albert Pujols, Jim Thome, Alex Rodriguez, Lance Berkman, David Wright or Prince Fielder either. (In case it wasn't obvious, I'm just going down the list of the league leaders in walks)
Which brings back the question, what's your point?
Is your point that it's impressive that he can even be mentioned in such impressive company?
Is your point that it's awesome that he has one exceptional offensive skill (drawing walks) to go along with another good offensive skill (hitting for power) and a third average offensive skill (hitting for average ... his average wasn't good, but it also wasn't bad ... in fact, it was pretty much exactly average)?
No, but seriously, what's your point?
Swisher is a good player. He's not a great player.
Duh.
So what's your point?
Basically this.
Swisher's a decent player but not as big a loss as a lot of people are making him out to be.
Somewhere in print in the next few months,
some publication somewhere might say this about Nick Swisher:
"After hitting 35 homers in 2006, many were disappointed with only 22 dingers in 2007. Don’t be: according to Greg Rybarczyk’s Hit Tracker, many of his 2006 homers barely cleared the fence. Nothing happened to his power stroke; those 13 homers that he lost in 2007 were offset by 12 more doubles, and his production was basically identical by Runs Created and OPS+. That projection looks about right."
If you look the distribution of the distance of his homers, the 35 HR season was more flukey than than the 22 HR seasons. Of course, he's moving to a better HR park, so don't be surprised if he clears 30 next year.
And he is a good, impressive young player. The average corner OF/1B last year were good for something like 90 Runs Created per 650 plate appearances, Swisher was about 10 runs better than that. So he was 1 win better than the average corner player on the hitting side of the ledger, and Swisher has good defense on top of that.
Really? Might it?
Perhaps a book about hard ball? Perhaps one that is published annually?
No, but seriously ... whatever publication contains that is offering excellent insight ... I would recommend any readers of this site purchase it ...
That OBP matters
A high OBP is valuable. Combine that with very good defense.
After adjusting for defense, and penalising him for playing a corner, he is about 3 wins above average.
You're not...
I think alot of this is the shock of losing two big-name guys so quickly and for uncertainty in return. Hell, Swisher was the most popular player in terms of interviews and commercials. I'll certaintly miss the entertainment factor of having him around.
what I dont get is
Didn't the A's have him under control for another 3-4 years?
I hate it when our top draft picks get traded.
All the best A's players are never drafted by us, only picked up from other teams.
by popcornjames on Jan 3, 2008 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
Um
What?
Haren? Zito? Mulder? Tejada? Chavez?
Not Haren
Meant Hudson.
Yeah, I hated losing all of those guys.
Giambi, Byrnes too.
Chavez, however, has two bobbleheads so he's gotta be next.
also I should apologize
for making such a blanket statement on the Interwebs, I usually know better than that.
I was a little emotional earlier, I'm sure you understand.
Boy, do I ever
: /
My nominee for 'Comment of the Thread'
Just put "Gonzales"
on the jersey and be done with it. Chances are there will be a fabulous prospect in the system that matches the jersey.
Why watch
It's really interesting. The A's could be a solid team in a couple of years. But even with all these young studs, there will be no veteran leadership to show them how to win when it counts (Chavez has never struck me as a leader). And the A's consistently give the casual fan very little reason to watch or attend games. For better or worse, sports is about stars and identifying with players. The team that the A's trot out in 2008 will be largely anonymous. It's getting really hard for my young boys to have favorite A's players when they are constantly being traded.
Feh. I know it's the way of the game. And it's an old lament about Beane. Maybe in three years I'll eat my words. But today, again, as usual, it sucks.
Go Warriors!
by mbaze on Jan 3, 2008 11:31 AM PST reply actions
my favorite
"There are a handful of players that you gut your future to trade for. Nick Swisher ain't one of 'em."
or this
"What the fuck do they know (athletics nation")?
They probably have very minimal information about Gio and DLS, and are automatically going to reject unknowns for a player like Swisher. Once they find out what they're getting, they'll be shitting their pants with glee.
by SwisherSweet33 on Jan 3, 2008 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
The Silver Lining
is that every Sox fan right now wants to murder Kenny Williams. The three guys we got are #1, #2, and #8 in their system, and they add Swish to a lineup that already has some pop in Thome and Dye. That being said, of course every fan is upset at Beane as well. Swish was the one player that everyone assumed was off limits. We would all be fine with a Crosby/Harden/Chavez/Kotsay/Blanton trade because they have been deemed expendable, and we've all been waiting for that shoe to drop. Swish was seemed to be a lock for the team, and possibly that is why Beane was able to get so much in return for him. In the end, Billy probably knows best, but now I have yet another outdated A's jersey hanging in my closet
by kb toyz on Jan 3, 2008 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
I'll probably get one finally,
since theyll be on all the clearance racks.
by popcornjames on Jan 3, 2008 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
and, re: AN'ers unfamiliar with the prospies ...
Once they find out what they're getting, they'll be shitting their pants with glee.
< shits sal's pants with glee >
Minor league stats
Ryan Sweeney
Fauti De Los Santos
Gio Gonzalez
Snap judgement: I think I like it.
As with the Hudson/Mulder trades in 2005, the second trade here comes somewhat out of the blue, without weeks of rumors preceding it, but looks like a good value trade, especially once it became clear that Beane was punting on the next year or two.
Swisher is a very good player, in his prime years, and signed long-term. The A's will miss him. But he doesn't seem likely to get much better - what we saw in 2006-2007 is what you'll get for the next few years as well - and as already noted the A's were beginning to have a logjam at LF/RF/1B/DH, while they had no clear long-term solution at CF, a problem that the Haren trade didn't address. Sweeney gives us a good prospect in CF, while the other two look like promising candidates for the rotation a year or two down the line.
You don't clear a logjam by
dumping the best option. I never thought I would not want to watch the A's but I seriously thinking about it now. Stupid Beane! I might be signing a different tune in March but right now I hate him.
I *always* clear a logjam by dumping
Amen to That
Looking at many of these comments makes me think you guys don't understand the team you root for.
This is the kind of team Beane runs. I love the fact that he looks ahead and makes trades like this, even if we lose good players like Haren and Swisher. This trade makes the organization better, and thus the team better.
Bull
You're allowed to be upset and sad about losing a favorite player, even while understanding that it is probably good for the team in the long run. Knowing that it will likely pay dividends later on doesn't mean you have to love it right now.
One last time...
Swish was a hell of a lot of fun to root for. I'll miss him a ton. But since we're in a rebuilding mode this trade looks pretty darn good to me!
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jan 3, 2008 11:35 AM PST reply actions
And this one...
I guess I can still use it when he strikes out against the A's haha
What are the odds that of the 9 prospects
we got for Haren and Swisher more than 2 turn out to be as good as or better than Swisher and Haren? If it is 2 or less seems to me to be bunk moves.
However, we've got to take risks being in a 'small' market and all.
I though it was
small 'market'.
I'm Calling Billy
Since the Finleyesque fire sale is on, maybe he would like to try me out in the outfield. I'll work cheep. I can still hit,but I'm a little slower than Jim Spencer.
White Sox fans apparently are hating the deal
Judging from South Side Sox as Sal mentioned.
They're now saying they have the worst minor league system in baseball.
And here is a classic. We've got people on AN disgusted with the dealing of Swisher, but Sox people are hating the deal.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2008 11:37 AM PST reply actions
They probably do have the worst ...
Poreda is the only guy they have left who is worth much of anything. I bet Saint is shitting a brick that we didn't figure out a way to get him in the deal ...
Cannot understand what Williams is playing at
I hate this trade for Chicago, but it's not because Swisher is going to suck. It's because the team has nothing to surround him with. The Sox are simply not a contending team in that division. He should have gone into the offseason looking to deal Thome, Konerko and Dye and retool for the future. Instead, he's mortgaged their future on those 3's declining bats.
Houston and White Sox are head shakers
Both teams should be rebuilding but have weakened their farm systems without actually improving their teams all that much. Neither team is likely to win 81 games, and they now have two of the worst farm systems in baseball. Ugly days ahead for these franchises.
by BlameChannel53 on Jan 3, 2008 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
IMO the situations are different.
Swisher is 27 next season and under control for about $25M / 4, with an option of $10.25M for 2012, all well below market rates. Even if he never improves, they can build around him.
Tejada is 32 next season, signed for $26M /2 and needs to rebound to be good; he is not someone they can build around for the future.
They're different in a more important way ...
trading for Swisher ensures that the Sox don't have any pieces to use to build around Swisher in the future.
They are not small market
They aren't large enough market ...
to simply buy a winner ... Jermaine Dye, Paul Konerko and Jim Thome can attest to that.
Their payroll has been above $100M
the last 2 years. No they aren't the Yankees or the RS, but they aren't the A's either.
As for those 3, I'm not sure what is your point. They retained Konerko, when letting him walk might have been wiser. They retained Dye.
Player ratings...
Those players the Sox gave up were rated B+, B+, and C+ according to the entry. Wonder if those are Sickels' ratings.
OUCH
I just paid for my season tickets yesterday and they trade my son's favorite player.Welcome to being an A's fan son.
Not to sound like a broken record....
But this is why I didn't get a name/number on my A's jersey. Only three option: traded, signs elsewhere as a free agent or ends up in the Mitchell report.
Jersey
My son just turned 12 and he learned about the A's jersey thing when he bought a Durazo with his own money.
well, can he at least trade the durazo jersey
for a holy grail?
by guy incognito on Jan 3, 2008 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
Me too
I was still on the fence about renewing. Not so much anymore.
In shock
This one really caught me off-guard. Guess Barton is next.
by Hawk on Jan 3, 2008 11:37 AM PST reply actions
Swisher on the White Sox
I wonder if Ozzie is going to make him bunt along with all the other guys.
A whole new lineup to memorize.
Baseball Prospectus Rankings
de los Santos, 5 stars, #1 in system
Year In Review: Beginning the year as an obscure Dominican arm in a weak system, de los Santos first blew away the coaching staff in spring training and then was almost literally unhittable in the Sally League, allowing one hit for every two innings pitched.
The Good: Built like a tree trunk, de los Santos gets tremendous drive. His fastball sits at 91-95 mph, touching 98 at times; it also has late movement, and he commands it very well. His breaking pitch is a power curve with hard late bite, and it's a true out pitch when he’s on. He understands the importance of developing an offspeed pitch, and he improved his changeup over the course of the year.
The Bad: De los Santos gets into bad habits at times, and can overthrow all of his pitches, costing him life on his fastball, break on his curve, and decreasing the velocity gap between the heat and his changeup. Some worry that his aggressiveness might work against him when facing more advanced hitters, and that he needs to learn how to set up batters and be more aware of the count, as opposed to challenging hitters with every pitch. If his changeup doesn’t continue to improve, some fear he’ll be limited to a relief role.
Fun Fact: In 18 fifth innings, de los Santos allowed just three hits while striking out 26.
Perfect World Projection: Star-level starter or closer.
Timetable: De los Santos has the highest ceiling of any player in the system, but he’s still at least two years away. He’ll likely begin 2008 at High-A, with an expectation than he could be ready for a look at some point in 2009.
Gonzalez, 4 Stars, #2 in System
Year In Review: After a one-year sojourn in Philadelphia, Gonzalez returned to the team that drafted him but then dealt in the Freddy Garcia trade. He pitched much better in his second Double-A season, leading the minor leagues in strikeouts.
The Good: Gonzalez has average velocity (89-91 mph) on his fastball, but he can reach back and touch 93 at times, and it features natural lefty movement, almost looking more like a cutter on occasion. He uses it effectively to get ahead in the count and set up his curveball, which is among the best in the minors. It’s a hard-breaking power pitch that comes in fast, then falls off the table. His changeup is improving, and his control made significant strides from the previous season.
The Bad: Gonzalez’ smallish frame is a concern for some, but he’s proven to be highly durable so far in his career. Some wonder if he’ll need to pitch backwards more in the majors, and worry that he depends too much on the curve at times. Despite the improvements, his control problems still flare up from time to time.
Fun Fact: Monsignor Pace’s most famous alum is actress Catherine Keener, although political commentator Bill O’Reilly taught history at the school for a brief time in the early 1970s.
Perfect World Projection: An above-average left-handed starter.
Timetable: Gonzalez will begin the year at Triple-A, and should see the big leagues at some point in 2008.
Sweeney, 2 Stars, #8 in System
Year In Review: The former first-round pick spent his second year at Triple-A and went backwards. Many believe it’s time to stop talking about projection with him.
The Good: Sweeney is big, athletic, and not without some offensive skills. He has a quick, short stroke, gap power, and a nice feel for contact. He works the count well and doesn’t strikeout often. He’s an average runner who can play center field in a pinch, and his arm is among the best in the system.
The Bad: Always projected to develop power, Sweeney is now stuck as a tweener–-without true center field skills or the power to play everyday in a corner. He’s always struggled against good lefties, and failed to make adjustments in 2007 to address the problem. He played with little energy down the stretch, and did not get a September callup.
Fun Fact: While at Triple-A Charlotte, Sweeney hit .314 while playing center field, but just .234 when penciled into one of the outfield corners.
Perfect World Projection: At this point, it’s hard to see Sweeney as more than a fourth outfielder and occasional starter, though he still has some believers among scouts.
Timetable: While Sweeney has clearly stagnated, it’s hard to see him avoiding a third year at Triple-A without a monster spring training. This next year is absolutely pivotal for him.
Thanks Devo
I was looking for that on BP.
by kaweahkaweah on Jan 3, 2008 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
he throws 88-91 mph
"pitch backwards?"
What does it mean, that Gonzales has to 'pitch backwards more'? Doesn't seem like that'll get many people out at all...
I think what he means is
use the breaking ball/change to set up the fastball.
K-Rod does this all the time. He almost never throws a fastball in the zone to a right-handed hitter.
These 6 and 3 for 1 trades
are going to be murder on roster management hehe. offhand i like it. 2008 was shot, so why not really reload/rebuild?!
ughh.........
officialllly..
i am over baseball.
HOWWW?!?! WHHYYY??????
swisher was the heart and soul
what is wrong w/ bay area sports?? its like NO ONE wants to succeed...they WNAT TO FAILL...
Wasn't there some bad blood...
between Williams and Beane due to some comments that Beane made about Williams in the past? Seems that business overrides everything!
I think the main bad blood
is with certain rabid White Sox fans. They are very vocal in Internet forums and they like to imagine Williams shares their hate. There was a whole lot of anti-Moneyball and anti-Beane gloating in that year when the Sox went to the World Series.
As for Williams himself, I think he like many GMs had a bit of reluctance to deal with Beane, but nothing so extreme as what those fans say.
On the bright side
Swisher's mullet fits better on Chicago's south side than in Oakland.
SHIT!!
I just heard the news on KNBR (off the Jim Rome show and not off the local updates which goes to show you how the Giants Flagship station doesn't care about the A's).
Didn't we just give the guy a nice contract to stay? Are we really going to get rid of every popular Athletic we've had for the last five years?
I was so ready to cheer on the team despite being in a rebuilding mode, but after this move, I don't know if I will match the amount of games I went to last year.
And why deal him to the White Sox? I hate those guys!
Why the Sox?
They paid through the ass ...
de los Santos is probably now our best prospect and is definitely our best pitching prospect, Gonzalez is now probably our second best pitching prospect as well.
Yep
Although I think our pitching prospect order probably goes de los Santos, Anderson, Gonzalez, Cahill, Rodriguez. That is one hell of a group without even throwing in guys like Bailey, et al.
by BlameChannel53 on Jan 3, 2008 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't argue with you ...
Anderson has a little more upside, Gio is closer ... six of one, half a dozen of the other ...
I'm very interested in seeing where the system now ranks, overall ...
I can't imagine any team other than the Rays being number one. Their system is just flat out sick -- but, after that ... I'm not saying that the A's would be #2 ... but I can't imagine they aren't at least in contention for it. It still is a little lacking in absolute, top level talent (of the kind that practically only exists in Tampa's system), but the depth of good to very good prospects is getting pretty silly.
Reds still have to be up there
mostly because Jay Bruce is worth about 15 other prospects.
Yeah, they probably beat us out ...
but not by a huge amount ...
If the A's trade Street, Blanton and maybe one other guy (out of Ellis, Duke, Embree) it's entirely possible that the Top 20 list wouldn't have a single prospect lower than a B- left on it ... how silly would that be?
We might have the best group of starters
But Tampa Bay definitely beats us overall; their system is so damn good it's scary. The A's are definitely Top 5 now.
by BlameChannel53 on Jan 3, 2008 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
Jason Windsor is crying bitter, bitter tears
right now.
He's got hope ...
the A's could trade Blanton and he could find himself starting game 11 on April 11th at Cleveland. There's no reason they shouldn't give him/Meyer first crack at it.
Damn
This will bite us worse than the Eric Byrnes thing (another player who I loved on the A's).
by oaklandSMASH on Jan 3, 2008 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
How did the Eric Byrnes thing bite us
We got Joe Kennedy who was a tremendous help for us in the 2006 playoff campaign while Byrnes was struggling that year. Sure he was good last year but still over-rated
by GusanoQuemador on Jan 3, 2008 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
well he struggled
by GusanoQuemador on Jan 3, 2008 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
and byrnes
would never have had his '07 while with the a's. no way he gets 57 steal attempts.
if..
street goes....nd chavey goes....and ellis goes...
whats the point of the team?
To win games, same as always
Just because you haven't heard of the players acquired does not mean they aren't good. Billy has acquired a crapload of talent in two trades.
by BlameChannel53 on Jan 3, 2008 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
To win games ... in 2009 or 2010 ...
None of the guys acquired in this trade are going to start the season in Oakland. Gio and Sweeney could finish the year in the show, though ...
Sweeney is kind of janky
I'm not a fan. Looks like a platoon 4th outfielder at best.
I'm not disagreeing ...
but he's headed for his third year of AAA, so if he's ever going to be anything, he'll probably be it soon ...
Not on Oakland's option list, he doesn't
He'll either be growing with the major league team or with someone else's team after 2008...
Billy Beane new motto:
Florida Marlina West or die!
Oh Man...
I held off renewing my season tix and with the Swish trade there seems to be no need. The A's will not be in the playoffs in 08..nor will it be hard to get a great seat to the games.
Adding insult to injury, the A's raised seat prices....only so that fans like me can watch a team that will be deep in the cellar.
Also, as a partial season ticket holder I stand no chance of getting decent seats at the new park (if it is ever built).
So why as a long-time A's supporter should I renew my season tix?
Right now I am depressed...the only thing that can help is if the A's also get rid of Crosby and Kotsay (this would be one example of addition by subtraction).
Geez.....
predicting the next bombshell ...
A's to tarp off second deck and bleachers?
by rubin sierra on Jan 3, 2008 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
if they tarp off the trough urinals, I'm done
my prediction:
"The Oakland Raiders announced they will be leaving Oakland for LA/Las Vegas/Dubai. With the Athletics' pending move to Fremont, Oakland Coliseum owners are planning to build a small housing/retail complex where the current stadium stands now. Unlike the Raiders and A's new homes, there will be no professional sports franchise included in this new mall deal. However, former Athletic Dan Johnson will be conducting tours in the many available condo spaces still for sale, which are very competitively priced for units of this size in the Bay Area."
by popcornjames on Jan 3, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
I keep trying to decide how I feel about this
And doing my best to put bias aside, I just don't like it that much.
Sure, they got the 1, 2, and 8 prospects. But they got them from the 28th ranked (according to BA) farm system, a system that is notorious for having no clue how to draft or evaluate players. Are de los Santos and Gonzalez the tallest midgets or are they legitimate prospects? I tend to think it's the former.
Sweeney is a right-handed Chris Denorfia, or something. I dunno. I like him, but I don't like him for THIS team because they're loaded in the outfield anyway.
It's possible I'm overrating Swisher. I might also be underrating the prospects. This trade looks a lot more like the Hudson deal. The Haren trade was Mulderx2.
I also am shocked the A's couldn't get more for Swisher. They might have pillaged the Sox farm system, but that system was garbage anyway. Just...ugh.
by thejd44 on Jan 3, 2008 11:52 AM PST reply actions
Look at the stars that Goldstein gave them
This isn't a case of tallest midgets with those 2.
De Los Santos has a sky high ceiling, best case scenario, a high K, nasty stuff, type ace.
Gio Gonzalez' ceiling is lower, but he is also very close to the majors. A reasonable, non-optimistic, projection is as a league average starter.
That is a GREAT haul.
Chris Denorfia is right-handed
Sweeney is like a left-handed Denorfia... except apparently a worse fielder. And also a worse hitter.
He's a lot younger, so he could break out. He's running out of time (and options), though.
I meant sweeney is a left-handed denorfia
But I'm still a little shaken by this trade. I am no longer responsible for what I say in this thread.
Sweeney is actually a couple years younger than I thought.
I don't think this is an awful trade. I just am not excited about it.
by thejd44 on Jan 3, 2008 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
see
i confused sweeney with brian anderson, and i was heated at first. i knew gonzalez but not DLS.
now, after reading up, i love the deal. the rotation is going to be unbelievable by fremont.
Sign for fan fest
Merry Christmas: Haren
and a Happy New Year!: Swisher
Thanks Billy for the presents!
by Mr C on Jan 3, 2008 11:54 AM PST reply actions
Ratfarts!
Swisher is going to the hated White Sox!!!!!!!'
Well, at least I can see him whenever I want since I do live in White Sox country.
I think Nick will become a quick fan favorite here in Chicago. I really liked watching him play the game for our A's. I wish it had been someone else that got dealt.
I'm excited.
This trade is pretty awesome.
i think i like it
i was a fan of swish for sure. just an easy guy to root for. this seems like a sell high type deal because who knows if he is going to be a 22 hr guy or a 35 hr guy?
if i was billy i would trade street asap. gotta be some moneybags team that would over pay for him. make harden the closer, let him rake up 20 saves by the deadline then deal him as well. seems we have plenty of pitching a left handed hitting prospects now, so billy should target some right handed thumpers. i'd also hang onto big joe for now. 220 innings of 4.0 era ball is much more valuable than it sounds these days.
I like your Street-Harden gambit
I love Swisher
and believe that he's underrated, even by A's fans, including some in this thread
OTOH, those 2 pitchers are damn fine prospects.
trading swisher
why trade the heart of the a's clubhouse? couldn't billy trade kotsay and get rid of his salary? when i heard about this trade, part of me died inside.
by greenandgoldpolarbear on Jan 3, 2008 11:57 AM PST reply actions
okay, maybe not kotsay
the a's still should have found a way to keep swisher. wasn't he supposed to be the future of the team? the good news is that we did get some really good prospects so lets hope it turns out like the mulder trade and not the hudson trade.
by greenandgoldpolarbear on Jan 3, 2008 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
Sweeney was only a top 10 ...
because the Sox' system sucks. We've basically claimed the last of it.
Kenny Williams seems to think he can scrape another year of contention out of them ... but that team is going to be very, very bad for a long time in the very near future.
Yeah I know
Sweeney doesn't look great. Still, he was #1 in the organization at the start of 2007, so that counts for something, I guess. But my point was that Kotsay has no value, and you couldn't even get Sweeney for him.
Just a little hyperbole on my part.
Just imagine who
makes their top 10 now.
I'm actually considering asking for a tryout ...
I like this trade
a LOT; I LOVE the pitchers we got, both DLS and Gio, but Sweeney is not a good prospect. At this point, he looks like a Dan Johnson type, maybe.
I love this trade in a vacuum
While subjectively I'm sad to lose an awesome dude (and very good player) in Swish, objectively I think Beane just pulled a Mulder-lite level steal.
It's the Haren deal that bugs me - losing a cheap ace with 3 years left on his contract and not having a potential ace in sight for the next couple years. The Haren deal might turn out to be a good trade, but imagine if we could have dealt Blanton instead of Haren and restocked our farm system with what Swish just brought us plus what Blanton could have (had the right trade worked out - A. LaRoche and Hu, or Carlos Gonzales and only 1-2 others)...We'd be sitting pretty.
I'm going to miss Haren more - especially because I think the Swisher deal was "too good to pass up" no matter what.
Uh oh
I disagreed with almost everything Nico wrote about the A's last season, but we seem to be on the same page about this off-season's moves: I made a similar comparison to the Mulder trade above, and I think his other point, that keeping Haren instead of Blanton would be worth the trade-off of a slightly-less-loaded farm system is also a good one.
Should I be worried?
The problem is
that you can't just decide to make a trade or not in a vacuum. If Beane wanted Carlos Gonzalez, he had to trade Haren. AZ wasn't interested in Blanton.
That would certainly be a problem
if Beane's entire goal this offseason had been to acquire Carlos Gonzalez. Maybe it was, I don't know.
And of course I don't know what the hypothetical offers for Blanton were either. But on a broad level, I simply don't like trading someone as good as Haren for any number of B+ prospects, even when you're rebuilding. Trading slightly lesser (though still very good) players like Blanton and Swisher makes more sense, as there is a larger pool of comparable talent capable of replacing them a couple of years down the line, including, presumably, some of the prospects you get back.
you need to read sickels'
explanation on rankings. B+ is an awesome grade. almost no one gets an A, and there are few A-'s. A B+ just means he still has something left to work on in the minors.
I will miss Haren more too.
When they traded Haren I was furious. Because without him I knew we would not have a chance at winning the division. Trading Swish for two guys who could be potential aces of the future seems like a smart move if we aren't able to contend. But I will certainly miss the Swish charisma!
Where's Zonis?
I need to see a lineup ...
From South Side Sox:
On many AN folks negative reaction thus far:
"What the fuck do they know?
They probably have very minimal information about Gio and DLS, and are automatically going to reject unknowns for a player like Swisher. Once they find out what they're getting, they'll be shitting their pants with glee."
Can't I shit my pants and be negative?
Swish was damn near everyone's favorite player on the team ... he's a great guy to root for.
I can mourn his loss while celebrating what BB did to KW's posterior with a chain saw, can't I?
Goes to show you how smart
a White Sox fan is.
Honestly, this is probably could still end up as a win-win for both our sides, but I still think they are getting the sweeter end of the churro.
by oaklandSMASH on Jan 3, 2008 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
I love this trade, period.
I didn't see the point of giving up Haren, but Swisher is a perfect trade candidate, in my opinion. I don't think he'll ever make the leap from good to great as an offensive player, and we got legitimate scary pitching talent in return.
A+
If San Diego bit on Prior then...
Certainly someone out there will go big for Harden.
My guess is he is next.
by Hawk on Jan 3, 2008 12:03 PM PST reply actions
letsgooakland has a good Harden-enrichment plan
http://www.athleticsnation.com/comme...
we could do it in secret underground
We just better hope Iran doesn't trade Ahmadinejad for blowhard prospects.
Prior didn't cost anything.
Just a cheap contract for one year. Harden costs a lot more, both in salary and the talent a team has to give up.
True. Just talking interest in damaged goods but.
I definitely see your point. I would love to just keep Harden and have him stay healthy. BUT every time he goes out there and I see him shake his arm I know we are in trouble.
by Hawk on Jan 3, 2008 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
My first impression BUT
Look at who we got. We stole their future and are stock piling ours.
by Hawk on Jan 3, 2008 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
This isn't so bad.
This is actually kind of fun. Not as much fun as watching the 01/02 A's stack a lineup 1-9 with guys who could hit it out of the ballpark, while running out the best pitching staff on the team.
But there is something fun about watching a team completely restock its farm system (for a hardcore fan, anyways). At the end of the 2007 season, virtually all of the talent in the Oakland organization was in the MLB team. By opening day 2008, it'll be widely dispersed across the entire organization.
And for those of you who have no interest in watching the A's until 2009: Go ahead, take a year off. They'll be there when you decide to come back.
it is bad
it sucks actually.
what has billy beane won?
i'm an A's fan; I want results!
If you don't draft well... this Moneyball thing doesn't work. So, to make up for recent drafting, we sell our ML talent. Beane is entrenched. So we'll see how this works out. But, i'm not very hopeful.
by GrewUpAtTheColiseum on Jan 3, 2008 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
Nothing lasts forever.
Oh, and...
"what has billy beane won?"
Please don't get that train rolling. It's a ridiculously tired argument.
no it isn't
beane this, beane that...
what has he won?
there are all these beane guys getting jobs around MLB and they ain't won sh*t either!
Bill Walsh, now there's a guy who has won, and then sent pupils out to also win titles!
Moneyball is under the microscope.
by GrewUpAtTheColiseum on Jan 3, 2008 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
Bill Walsh
Now there's a guy who coached a completely different sport.
And how long have Billy's "pupils" been out?
Riccardi in 2001 was the first, right? Like, 5 years? And who else is out there? DePodesta, for 2 years before Plaschke ran him out of town. No other team has a GM from the A's organization, right?
And for the (hopefully) last time, Billy was all set to go to the Red Sox. But he didn't, so they got a guy they figured would run the team just like Billy Beane would. And they've won sh*t. Twice.
But this is a completely different discussion.
billy would have
slide
billy would have touched home.
billy would have not given up a three run yakker to booyah aj.
really can't blame him for the a's spectacular and inventive choke moves in the playoffs 01-04.
The heck?
"If you don't draft well... this Moneyball thing doesn't work. So, to make up for recent drafting, we sell our ML talent."
Yeah, the recent drafts have been terrible. Swisher and Blanton and Buck and Suzuki. Crap. Junk. Garbage.
by thejd44 on Jan 3, 2008 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
They have been terrible
We had one of the worst farm systems in MLB going into this offseason, hence the need to replenish it by dealing away our best players.
Not really ...
2007 is looking great.
2006 is very solid (remember we didn't have a first round or any supplemental picks) with Cahill, Mitchell, Bailey and hopefully Matt Sulentic bouncing back.
2005 brought Buck ... and still has some promising young arms, if they can just get healthy.
2004 has two current starters -- Street and Suzuki as well as some other useful AAA talent (Windsor, Braden, Melillo, Putnam, Powell).
2003 was largely a bust.
Except for 2003 we haven't had any bad drafts of recent vintage -- they just hadn't been great enough to keep the farm system consistently restocked. They weren't bad, by any stretch -- just not as good as we have come to expect.
Wow, kind of a shock to the system
I had accepted the rebuilding but I guess I convinced myself that Swisher wouldn't be a part of the fire sale.
This is a real head vs. heart sort of thing. Objectively this deal makes too much sense to not pull the trigger on but it still hurts to wave goodby to Swish.
For the second time in a week
I find myself shocked, but not surprised. I'm glad we got a good return on this deal, and that Billy's willing to take a good deal for anyone.
What was the first time?
1) yowzas 2) haha, shit 3) next target?
From initial surprise to some "man, goddamn" type laughter, I now am thinking....
Who will we acquire next? We know who would be traded (Blanton, Street, Embree, anybody), but I would like to know what some potential targets would be. Now I wish I was more of a minor league fan. I'd assume a CF (still no true CF of the future in our system?), SS, and as always pitching... any names come to mind?
by Eric in Atlanta on Jan 3, 2008 12:13 PM PST reply actions
Brignac ... but he's untouchable ...
and he's a D-Ray, so they aren't trying to compete in 2008, anyway.
Hu (Dodgers), Lillibridge (Braves), or Lowrie (Red Sox) are probably the best fits from our perspective (not saying any of them are going to be dealt).
They're absolutely trying to compete in 2008
They have one year, maybe two, before Scott Kazmir's arbitration price goes bonanzas and they have to trade him.
Brignac is, however, not really a SS. The other guys you mentioned are better targets.
Goldstein disagrees on Brignac.
But if Tampa is really trying to compete and they think Blanton or Street could help them out, I'd be very happy to see BB take Brignac off their hands ... (and very sad to see Blanton and, especially, Street go)
The most positive thing to come out of his 2007 season was his defense, which made great strides in terms of both instincts and fundamentals, changing the minds of many scouts who earlier predicted an eventual move to third base.
that's why you know he's not done
still hasn't gotten a middle infielder
certainly
there are plenty of AA teams that could use a backup SS.
by guy incognito on Jan 3, 2008 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
These post-trade threads follow a pattern.
1--the chickens little
followed by:
2--the pissed-off player partisans
followed by:
3--the in-Billy-we-trusters
followed by:
4--the stat-heads.
Please label your posts accordingly. I like to promote personal efficiency by ignoring groups 1-3 -- esp. in January when I generally resolve to waste less time.
Groups 3 and 4 are often indistinguishable.
So, multiple labels will need to be applied where appropriate.
Efficient Stages of Grief
Oh my god the sky is falling! Swisher was my favorite player. This team is doomed. But, if Billy did the deal, it must be a good one. Gonzalez's adjusted mWARP was pretty solid in AA last year, so he's a stud.
I'm a multiple-grouper here
I'm a Swisher mark so this bugs me (2). I have no reason to doubt Beane, despite my disappointment (3). I recognize the numbers the prospects have put up, but I have trouble reconciling those with Swisher's major league production - and the money isn't much of a factor because Swisher is well under market value right now (4).
But I'm pretty sure the sky still knows its damn role (not 1).
by thejd44 on Jan 3, 2008 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
I'm with you ...
the sky has stayed in place through worse ...
"I knew that was coming," he said, arrogantly.
Touche!
by The Dogfather on Jan 3, 2008 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
QOTM
- Gamingboy Posted: January 03, 2008 at 02:59 PM (#2659417)
Wow. At this rate, the A's will be so young, they'll be asking if the elephant will give them rides if he's given peanuts.
So long...
by LawDaddy on Jan 3, 2008 12:19 PM PST reply actions
Wolff makes it hard to root for a City...
and Beane makes it hard to root for players.
So root for the laundry!
...except for the black jerseys...they'll never be "true" Oakland Athletics laundry, no matter how many homers the A's hit wearing them!
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jan 3, 2008 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
Florida Marlins west
If the A's don't trade anyone with value and a contract then Billy should be shot. I think Billy has thrown in the towel on 2008 and we should hold a fire sale ala the Marlins. The A's payroll should be below $20 million if Billy plays his cards right (although if he has to keep Chavez then hitting this number will be tough).
Btw, with a payroll this low the A's make money even if noone shows up.
Well, that's nothing new.
The A's have been among the most profitable teams in baseball for a while now.
umm...
40 Rich Harden $2,250,000
3 Eric Chavez $9,500,000
7 Bobby Crosby $2,550,000
41 Alan Embree $2,356,496
21 Mark Kotsay $8,000,000
Find seekers for that group, then maybe you can touch <$20 million, otherwise forgetaboutit...</p>
by ST on Jan 3, 2008 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
keep in mind ...
25 players at the minimum is a little over $10m. BB would have to basically every player who has even hit arbitration except for Mark Kotsay to hit that number.
Ugh. I'm sick. :(
Good luck Swish. We'll miss you, and any one with talent who's been here 3+ years.
Sniff
Sniff.
Good trade
This trade definitely made sense for the team. Swisher's a likable guy and a good player, but we definitely picked up some promising talent that should pay off mightily a few years down the road when we can actually compete again. This year, though.... sweet sassy molassey, it's going to be unwatchable.
Next trade: Street.
Agree with letsgooakland on that one. Street's elbow is one slider away from Tommy John surgery, and if another team is yet to figure that out, let's by all means steal a prospect from them.
corollary: or that sez "BEANE"
by The Dogfather on Jan 3, 2008 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
I want a "Gonzalez Gonzalez" jersey
Can I just get a jersey with a number
and a dry erase board as a nameplate?
by oaklandSMASH on Jan 3, 2008 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
I'm tempted....
...to buy a jersey and have "TRADE BAIT" put on the back.
I just renewed my season tix in Sac
should be a couple of interesting years ahead...
by LawDaddy on Jan 3, 2008 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
Seriously ...
it's a good time to be a Sacramento A's fan, with Stockton an easy hop down the 99.
I wonder if Billy has decided the Minors are ...
... overvalued as a place to acquire experience.
by The Dogfather on Jan 3, 2008 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
So long Swish. I hardly knew ya.
This one hurts more than any trade I can remember in recent memory. Huddy was pretty painful but his mystery oblique injuries made things a little easier. Swish is such a great personality but I will say he never seemed the same after Milton was traded. Who knows how devastated he feels right now?
Didn't see this one coming at all. I'm going to assume that Street is next unless someone decides Blanton is worth a haul of prospects before that happens. I guess Blez should come up with a nickname changing system so that I can change mine to "ohtobe21like
'whoeverthefuckIlikeonthea'sthathappenstobe21atthetime.'"
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jan 3, 2008 12:29 PM PST reply actions
Props, good man (or woman).
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jan 3, 2008 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
Swish was a great guy to watch.
But he ws no great talent on the field. With Danny Haren gone it makes sense to trade Swish. Good luck to Swish... he was a ray of light. The team just got a lot more boring to watch.
errr, I mean...
fast work, Sickels. :) he notes in it where they are in our system. new guys are 2, 3, and 12 in our system now. nice haul.
by Eric in Atlanta on Jan 3, 2008 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
Sweeny
went from #5 ranked Sox to #12 ranked A. How sucky a system did they have! He must have been the throw in player.
Top 20+
Carlos Gonzalez, OF, Grade B+
Gio Gonzalez, LHP, Grade B+
Fautino De Los Santos, RHP, Grade B+ (
Daric Barton, 1B, Grade B+
Brett Anderson, LHP, Grade B+
Chris Carter, 1B, Grade B+ (an aggressive grade but I LOVE this guy)
James Simmons, RHP, Grade B
Henry Alberto Rodriguez, RHP, Grade B (big-time sleeper, great arm)
Trevor Cahill, RHP, Grade B-
Aaron Cunningham, OF, Grade B-
Corey Brown, OF, Grade B-
Ryan Sweeney, OF, Grade C+ (I don't think his power is going to develop)
Andrew Bailey, RHP, Grade B- (another sleeper with an aggressive grade)
Sean Doolittle, 1B, Grade B-
Javier Herrera, OF, Grade C+ (great tools, but refinement??)
Dan Meyer, LHP, Grade C+
Greg Smith, LHP, Grade C+
Sam Demel, RHP, Grade C+
Andrew Carignan, RHP, Grade C+
Grant Desme, OF, Grade C+
Travis Banwart, RHP, Grade C+
Josh Horton, SS, Grade C+
Jermaine Mitchell, OF, Grade C
this sucks balls
i just saved up enough money to get a swisher jersey too! the scutaro trade stung a whole lot... haren was like the worst has come... and swisher hit too close to the heart... 2008 sucks already...
by TrizzleNizzle510 on Jan 3, 2008 12:33 PM PST reply actions
Me too, I'm very sad!
He made the game more fun.
aye yi yi...
this is shocking, but i'm pretty sure Beane knows what the heck he's doing. based on the prospects we've received in the haren and now swisher trade, i have a reason to be excited.
SWISHER STILL ROCKS!
by swisherroks33 on Jan 3, 2008 12:34 PM PST reply actions
Nice observation from BBTF:
"The White Sox fans are angry...the A's fans are angry...good trade all around! "
This is my wife on opening day
When the lineup is annouced
"who is that honey?"
"where did he come from"
"why are we watching this?"
sounds like my gf
hey, who's that?
"thats jack cust baby"
um, who's that?
"that's hannahan"
where'd he come from?
"billy found he drunk on the lawn"
then she goes on some rant about what are they doing, don't they care etc.
all i can answer is they're trying to win anyway they can.
Remind me of this:
Whose motorcycle is this?
It's a chopper baby.
Whose chopper is this?
It's Zed's.
Who's Zed?
Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead.
Acid Test
The thing about Billy trading Swisher is that you know Billy wouldn't do it lightly. Personal favourite, great contract, great face for the club; Beane wouldn't have moved him unless he was sure the offer was worthwhile. On first impression, I agree. And though I know everyone's gutted about how bad we're probably going to be in 2008, I'm happy to see Billy showing his commitment to the new order. If we should have learned anything last year it's that you can't go at this league with dribs and drabs. It's time to stock up and be patient.
Good post.
Beane liked Swish too. He must think this is a very good trade. I wonder if Swish is a little happy to be traded?
Definitely
Honestly I think you could tell Swish he got syphilis and he'd bounce around like an excited puppy. But from the hitter's perspective - particularly one coming from a team that's not going to win anyway - I can't imagine he'll be anything but excited to play in that ballpark. It should suit him down to the ground and I look forward to seeing him play there.
either that
or Beane is competing in a Bay Area sports version of a Pig Party. The General Manager of the Bay Area sports team that fields the worst team wins!
All of which is silly, since the 49ers will win that race easily.
Beane just wanted to get coverage of the Iowa
caucus off the air. Must be a Kucinich guy. Or he doesn't like the Virginia Tech-Kansas matchup tonight.
No, he wanted to preempt Blez' tattoo thread
Rock chalk Jayhawk! Go KU.
I hope that my team wins because this day officially sucks.
Not only would Beane sell his mother. He would send her C.O.D. Good trade, Lawrence the Raider.
Sincerely,
Gordon Gecko
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jan 3, 2008 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
you went to Kolkata University too?
Seriously though, Kansas fans need to come up with some other words that rhyme with Jayhawk. Bach Clock Jayhawk!
Tonights highlight: two teams with made up birds as mascots.
My last summer of going to games
...before heading off to college, and we're looking at a 65 win season. I miss Swisher and Haren.
My last summer of watching games
before I moved away was fraught with Arthur F---ing Rhodes. So count your blessings!
I wonder what attendance will be for the A's?
Pretty lousy
by 3Chavy3 on Jan 3, 2008 12:42 PM PST reply actions
Yeah but like Skwid said above...
If the payroll is low enough ...you don't need high attendance to make mula.
It really makes me feel good that they profit
While us A's fans granted there are not very many of us will suffer
by 3Chavy3 on Jan 3, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sorry,
where do you think that money is going? Not in billys pocket, I assure you. Nor wolffs.
by BWH on Jan 3, 2008 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
Ooh, ooh, let me guess ...
Fischer?
I mean, it certainly isn't going into my pocket ...
Back into the team...
Farm system, scouting, draft pick signing bonuses, future team payroll, etc.
Owners don't get rich off team revenue. They get rich, then buy the team.
What doesn't happen is a bunch of front office execs get raises because Swish and his $5 million salary are off the books.
Low payroll team does not equal greedy owners.
by BWH on Jan 3, 2008 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
The A's have been turning a profit
After all of these factors are taken into account. Just because the owners are already rich does not mean that they're treating the A's as some sort of philanthropic venture. They want it to be a money making enterprise. I don't know how to access the A's financial reports, but I strongly doubt that I'd see the same $5 million that was just saved being put into the scouting budget.
Well, yeah
It's no surprise they've been turning a profit. MLB made over $6 billion last year. Plus, the A's are trying to finance a new stadium, they should be turning a big profit for a number of years before they do that.
But I don't think that there's ever been a case in which Lew Wolff decided he needed new flooring in his kitchen, or something, and cut payroll because of it.
Owning a baseball team isn't philanthropic, I agree. Philanthropy involves giving up money. Most baseball owners just operate the team as a sort of hobby. They don't make or spend any money on it. The money Wolff makes off the A's will come when he sells it, after he builds the new ballpark.
In other words, I don't feel as if the on-field talent has ever been compromised or cut short because of front office greed.
I mean, we're all upset to see Nick go on some level, even if we're excited about what we got back (like I am). But don't turn that frustration into a knee-jerk, ad hominem attack on Billy Beane/Lew Wolff.
by BWH on Jan 3, 2008 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
Oh I agree
Certainly, these trades are not being made with the purpose of making money for the owners. It's not about greed on the part of Wolff or Fischer. But by the same token, I don't think that a statement can be unequivocally made that the money that has been saved is not going to be turned into profit. But now I feel like I'm just being unnecessarily contentious, so I'll just leave it by agreeing that the reason for this trade was not the owners' desire for more money.
Not until
Jeremy Brown is traded.
by LawDaddy on Jan 3, 2008 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
And Joe Blanton
Validates my tossing the season ticket bill!!!
I tossed it when Haren left......I wasn't up to spending that kind of money to see Rivercats.
So now the best pitcher is joined by the best position player--and the face of the team.
There is rebuilding and there is gutting.....I can hardly wait for my next threat that I can't get tickets at the Fremont Field. Without face names they won't need 32,000 seats.
Billy is Not a Genius
I am tired of everyone thinking Billy is so smart. When was the last trade Billy made that was good? Billy got rid of Byrnes for no reason at all and he had a great year last year. Billy signs people like Arthur Rhodes and Eric Karros. This isn't' rebuilding this is total destruction. The A's are clearly the worst team in MLB right now. I have been alive for 29 years and this is the worst team the A's will ever put out on the field. They used to trade away guys whose contracts were up, now they are just dealing people for nothing. What if all these guys are as big of busts as the prospects in the Hudson trade? Stop drinking the Koolaide people, this is a sham, the A's are going to lose 100 plus games for the forseeable future then move to Fremont. What a slap in the face to all the Oakland A's fans. Who would have guessed that the Warriors would be the best team playing in Oakland! At least we still have Crosby and Chavy in the lineup, but it could be worse we could be an NL team and then have to hit the pitcher also so we would have three sub .200 hitters batting down there. At least Kendall is gone. Go A's!
by Hubbard88 on Jan 3, 2008 12:47 PM PST reply actions
Sorry that I don't agree and I'm not a Kool-Aid
drinker. You haven't even seen this team on the field yet. Not sure I can give much creedence to your post, although baseball is all about good and bad trades. Trades are never an absolute one way or another but I'll guarantee he knows much more than any of us on AN.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jan 3, 2008 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
My favorite part
"At least we still have Crosby and Chavy in the lineup..."
Oh yes, thank the Lord. We weren't going to be good this year anyways, with Haren and Swisher, just like we weren't good last year.
Nice first post ever, Hubbard88 -
Welcome to Trollkland!
I think we should hesitate to call people trolls
Who are at least trying to make valid points, though perhaps not succeeding
Agreed
If he really is new here then he probably doesn't have all the background information we do. He hasn't heard all the arguments that we think have been made a thousand times.
Let him have his opinion. Rebut it with knowledge, not with ad hominem.
Troll!!!!
You've just been lying in wait with your sub-600 UID, dozen or so diaries and countless comments to spring forth with this sort of vitriolic comment years later ...
Troll!!!!!! With your jokes
about other people being trolls, and your trollish UID (or is it IUD?), posting for years with baseball-related analysis only to spring up on a thread that already has 500 comments on it... TROLL!!!
thanks for acknowledging
the sub-600. For years I've been wishing I'd picked a different username, but I just can't bear to give up my spot in line.
Blez can change it ...
though then no one would know who you are ...
That's what the signature line is for
yep
and Fremont has many (large) hurdles. I read somewhere on this site that the franchise is already worth a lot more than the current ownership paid for it. They are gonna go all out for Fremont, and if doesn't work out; we could be looking at another 5-10 years of this same pattern.
And the giants buying in to FSN will make all these terrible (2008) games hard to view.
by GrewUpAtTheColiseum on Jan 3, 2008 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
Fremont
I just wonder if the A's have really judged the SF Bay Area market well. They have openly said they don't care if they lose fans from through the tunnel because they will gain fans from SJ/southbay. But those fans have been SF fans and if the A's lose 100+ games until this mystical move to Fremont why the hell would those fans jump ship from SF to the "Silicon Valley/whatever our name is because we can't be called San Jose A's". I mean say those losers across the bay get good during this stretch, it isn't 1994 anymore, a new ballpark isn't what is used to be when it comes to getting fans to the park in the long term.
I am not a hater by any means, I love the A's with a passion, I am just tired of people thinking Billy Beane is a god. Billy Beane knows what it takes to get the playoffs, and for that I am thankful. I just think that the entire organization feels like if it gets to the playoffs we have "won" because we are the lowly, little, small market A's. All I know is that guys that are former A's, and not even the superstars, go to these other teams and win. Dye, Foulke, Byrnes, hell Terry Franconia was our bench coach before he went to the Red Sux. Something is off in A's land and I am not just talking the Giambi no slide jinx. What other team could go from the ALCS to 4th place without getting hell from the media? Billy Beane is a lucky SOB to be the GM in Oakland and not Chicago, Boston, NY or Philly
This rebuilding thing is more like a Marlins fire sale since we have traded away guys that are CHEAP and have years left on their contracts, and I can't get excited about the "future" when we use the guys who should be the veterans of the A's them of the future are the pieces used to get prospects. If it works go A's, until there is a parade down Broadway, or I guess Fremont Auto Row at this pace, I am not happy and none of you should be either. . Go A's......hopefully we can say go A's to the Oakland A's at some point soon!
by Hubbard88 on Jan 3, 2008 1:25 PM PST up reply actions