Fremont v Oakland

by Filthyslurve on Aug 15, 2006 11:20 PM PDT

Keith at OAFC and marinelayer on his blog both mention this, but tomorrow is both another big tent revival for the diminishing Oakland city boosters AND "Fremont" day at the park. Hmm. Trouble. Fremont organizers are hoping for 10,000 in attendance. The Elephant Bar, Appleby's and The Hub will be hurting for patrons, methinks.

As a resident of Oakland, and having grown up in Fremont, this is all just too surreal. I was graduated from Washington High School, Dennis Eckersley's alma mater!, and get back to see the folks most weekends. Fremont will be just fine, but a significant change in fanbase attending games will occur. More South Bay, Pleasanton and visiting international techies and less Raider fans, Berkeley Greeks/grad students and drummers. I moved to Oakland largely to be closer to the yard (and I'm not the only one I know who's done that, sadly), and this is my first year with season tickets. I wanted to guarantee my seats in section 220 as the the tarps have increased demand...

Seemingly, we'll still have the panting "high socks" brigade, thank the Lord, and all of their pink A's merchandise. They just won't have as many tattoos in Fremont.

What really sticks in my mind (besides all of this largely idle chatter about relocation...I'll believe it when I see LW and Beane breaking ground somewhere with nifty, glittering, ceremonial shovels and pristine hardhats) is my trip last month to Philadelphia. I am so sick, I visited Philly just to visit the Philadelphia A's museum in suburban Hatboro. If you ever have a chance, make the trip. It's not just that those old guys have hired a gorgeous co-ed to run the shop/museum, but she can quote Moneyball chapter and verse. swoon She's a Phillies fan, poor girl. Bless. I also visited the old 21st and Lehigh site where the old Shibe Park citadel formerly dominated. A plaque commemorates the historic site but it rests pitifully on the sidewalk in front of a new, bland megachurch.

The moral? I travelled 3000 miles to see pictures of Mickey Cochrane, Jimmy Foxx, Jimmy Dykes and Connie Mack and to breathe the air they played in. I can ride BART back home 30 minutes to see the new Athletics dynasty. I'd RATHER walk down Broadway to the yard and stop at McNally's on the way home, but, people...please, we're talking the same county. Many of that OAFC crowd are railing on about Fremont in the same manner "The City" snobs speak of Oakland.

I can't wait for Mission Peak to be renamed Tightwad Hill.

510 love. It's better than Vegas.

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Comments

lol

gorgeous girls who quote Moneyball chapter and verse need to run museums near where I live.

As for FreOak, I'm an NRAF (hate the fact that NRA is included in that acronym), so I have nothing to say there.

I am no drunkard, I'm a hard-working man.

by Cutthemullet on Aug 15, 2006 11:49 PM PDT reply actions

You have to pronounce NRAF phonetically!

Not "N. R. A. F."

Say it with me... nraf. Nraf!

Isn't that better than including "N.R.A." in it? ;)

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 16, 2006 6:49 AM PDT up reply actions

"EN-raf"

"the poop stain on the collective AN pantalones." -ohad

by ArakSOT on Aug 16, 2006 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions

Computers are how we got Enraf.

"the reason why hitting the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat feels so good is that the ball is contacting at the bat at a vibrational node." - salb918

by McFood on Aug 16, 2006 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions

Nraf!!!

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 16, 2006 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions

EN-raf!!!!

"the poop stain on the collective AN pantalones." -ohad

by ArakSOT on Aug 16, 2006 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions

There needs to be a poll.

I'll have to create a new diary just so I can take a poll that will prove you wrong.

Nraf!

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 16, 2006 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions

It takes one to know one... RAF

EN-raf.

"the poop stain on the collective AN pantalones." -ohad

by ArakSOT on Aug 16, 2006 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions

That's why there needs to be a poll!

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 16, 2006 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Fremont day at the Coliseum, is it?

Too bad I'll be stuck in Fremont all day working, instead of being in Oakland where I should be :(

Oh well.... As a member (still co-president?) of the High Socks Club I have to say that I have no pink A's merchandise, hoookay. Save for one gray/pink shirt that I bought for my sister anyway.

"The rain soaked patrons reveled in thier victory and the shortest man on the field stood taller than Randy Johnson." - Saint

by Melody on Aug 15, 2006 11:55 PM PDT reply actions

nothing against Fremont

but if you build a ballpark that's harder to get to -- especially with public transport -- I don't think attendance over the long run will be improved.

the A's fan base is and has been throughout the entire Bay Area (north, east, south and west) and beyond. Oakland is the best place geographically and historically to base such a team (not to mention its own storied baseball history with the Oaks and Larks).

But I understand that this is not really about the ballpark or about attendance. It's really about giving free land for the condo etc. development.

I'll be at the rally today.

by OaklandSi on Aug 16, 2006 7:50 AM PDT reply actions

Whatever:

If Wolff moves the A's he is a greedy bastard.

Oakland is willing to keep them by giving them the land in the Coliseum.

Oakland only charges the A's 500K for the use of the Coliseum as it currently stands.

How else do you think they stay profitable on paper?

Wolff wants to develop.

He wants a HUGE slush fund associated with any new stadium.

I mean, think about it...he wouldn't build here unless 100 merchants packed up and left?!?!

What's up with that?

We are basically screwed Oakland.

The Wolff has come in and he is moving Oakland's most valuable asset to Fremont.

If you think Oakland has problems now...wait untill all of the money that having the A's here brings in is gone.

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Aug 16, 2006 8:09 AM PDT reply actions

Is Fremont in Alameda?

Maybe they would be the Alameda A's.

I can tell you this much, driving the extra whatever isn't going to help the Sac A's fans.

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Aug 16, 2006 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions

a reasoned view

My hope is for a nice, baseball only facility, somewhere that I can get to within an hour of work. I work near Campbell right now and that's how long it takes me. Still make it to around 30 games a year. Fremont fits the bill so I'm enthusiastic about the idea. I can't help but wonder why the "loyal" fans in Oakland don't feel the same way.

A man amongst boys, Towering and imposing, One very Big Hurt

by Tim J on Aug 16, 2006 11:16 AM PDT reply actions

I can understand why this sounds good

to you.

And as a loyal Oakland fan, I have written many times (including in this diary) about why I don't think a move to Fremont is a good idea.

As I said, I don't believe the issue really is attendance or even about baseball -- it's about real estate.

by OaklandSi on Aug 16, 2006 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions

I am happy with the idea.

Bottom line is that my beloved team will be able to stay in the Bay Area. WHERE WE BELONG. Sure, it is not in Oakland. However, it sure beats having to buy an MLB satellite package to watch the, err, Portland A's.

by nfadil4 on Aug 16, 2006 11:51 AM PDT reply actions

Dynasty Building is more important

Newark, CA native... up here in Portland with my MLB package...

What has been the most frustrating part of the A's? Building talented teams with players that will help other teams win championships... (although since the Giambi signing I do not believe the Spanks have won a World Series...neither have the A's)

I think any move that keeps the A's in the East Bay or South Bay where they can have a beautiful ballpark (as the Coliseum once was), with an influx of cash, to keep the players Beane knows he should keep (ex. Tejada) would be an exciting moment in A's history.

Of course there is a financial element for Wolfe, but Oakland has not been hospitable to the A's in quite awhile. They should be paying us to play under Mt. Davis with the field beautiful for only 80% of the season...

I think if the A's move to Fremont or elsewhere in the Bay Area, where a new, beautiful park can floursh and make us some money in attendance and through more media coverage... it will be the dawn of a new MLB Dynasty, under Beane's Rule.

And that is what we have always wanted...that and a time machine to get Jeremy to slide...

by dhannonpdx on Aug 16, 2006 12:14 PM PDT reply actions

to be fair

since Schott/Hoffman bought the A's the organization hasn't been hospitable to Oakland either.

I'm no fan of the Raider deal nor of Mt Davis. But I think the A's organization has wanted to leave Oakland for some time; no interest was shown in various proposals for a new ballpark either. Also, Commissioner Selig has been pretty hostile to the Oakland location as well. I'm not arguing that the Oakland govt couldn't be more accomodating, of course they could have been. But it's a two-way street.

As far as $$ Oakland has actually made it relatively cheaper to stay for the A's, when you think of the lease price and the free provision of Oakland police for security.

by OaklandSi on Aug 16, 2006 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Agree with Selig, but Mayor Brown was worst

than anything the A's ownership did to Oakland. They never packed there bags and left (raiders), nor had a deal in the works (giants)...

they needed a new stadium and did not act shy about it...

mayor brown did not believe the A's were a priority... and when it comes to urban issues maybe he is right.

however, the tranformations that occurred when the cities of Baltimore, Cleveland, Seattle, Denver, and San Francisco (privately financed stadium, but the city invested in the surrounding area) invested in the parks sites are undeniable. It is true there are new stadiums that turn out to be busts financially....but when done right they can be huge for a city. Brown did not have a vision for that.

I think taking everything as a whole A's ownership has been pretty fair, and consistent in keeping the A's local...

One more thing... as an old Newark resident... Fremont is far more east bay attitude than South Bay business yuppie... trust me.

by dhannonpdx on Aug 16, 2006 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions

again, I've nothing against Fremont

and I'm well aware of Brown's sabotaging any city cooperation to get the A's a new ballpark in Oakland.

But I think the issue of building on wetlands in an area five miles away from public transit is significant. I have serious doubts that building the ballpark in Fremont -- particularly in the location that they have discussed -- will increase fan attendance. And I still think that is NOT the priority of the current A's ownership.

by OaklandSi on Aug 16, 2006 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Mayor Brown was worse than anything.......

Amen.

Certain restrictions apply.

by Duke of left field on Aug 16, 2006 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions

Portland A's would Rock....

for me in Portland... I would sell my first (unborn) child for season tickets...

Dave

by dhannonpdx on Aug 16, 2006 12:15 PM PDT reply actions

There Is No A In Fremont

And for last time, people need to stop thinking Wolff wants to to move this team. Not ONCE has he said he wants to leave Oakland.

And has anyone ever though about how a move would effect people that work @ the park. With most of the people that work there being from Oakland, are they really going to want to travel 25 miles to the south to work? I don't believe so and know so since people I know that work there have been passing out flyers for the rally.

Fremont has, is and will forever be a wet dream. Fremont will end up with the San Jose Earthquakes................ AND LIKE IT!!!!!!!!!!

There is no "A" In Fremont. KEEP THE A'S IN OAKLAND!!!!

by RF A-hole on Aug 16, 2006 1:48 PM PDT reply actions

but there is an "A" in "Lowest Fan

Attendence Every Year..."

whoops, that coulda backfired thanks to 50 character subject limit...

"Mommy and Daddy are going to take a nap before the baseball game starts..."

by Devyn on Aug 17, 2006 5:25 AM PDT up reply actions

The A's are not the lowest:

In fact, at one point the A's were #1, IN Oakland!!!

Another fact is that the A's turn a progit, ON PAPER, every year in thier current state!!!

So, why do they need a new stadium again?

Once you see through the looking glass you will see rich people that only want to get richer.

Land Deals, aquisitions, mergers...

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Aug 17, 2006 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions

Oh, get off it

The big greedy capitalist is taking away our team. Lew leads a group of investors who spent a shit-load of money to make a shit-load of money. That's how things get done in our society. Wolff may be determined to get a developing deal with any new ballpark, but so what? That's not so unreasonable considering they're willing to pony up the entire cost of building a new ballpark. And as for Oakland's lost revenue, don't make me laugh. Stadiums are not the economic miracles that many people claim them to be. The real value of a new ballpark is that fans get to keep their team. In our case, the best option appears to be Fremont. Sure, it sucks, but we don't have the LUXURY of complaining. Lew's just about out of options in Oakland, so unless you feel like flying to future A's games, you might want to give Fremont another look.

by kvn on Aug 16, 2006 2:50 PM PDT reply actions

You my friend

Are full of yourself and don't know a damn thing you are saying.

There is no "A" In Fremont. KEEP THE A'S IN OAKLAND!!!!

by RF A-hole on Aug 17, 2006 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions

something that really sucks

When you look at the teams that Selig "called out" for contraction it seems somewhat comical how important those teams have actually been to baseball.

First and FOREMOST- Oakland A's- 4 WS titles, a rabid fan base, many years of continued success and so many great players historically. It could easily been at least 3-4 more championhips but Finley (then LaRussa outmanaging himself) hindered it from happening IMO.

Second- Minnesota Twins- Two-time WS winners and a very strong fan base with the shittiest turf and stadium that I've ever seen. The late 80's and early 90's were great years and, oh my, Kirby Puckett.

Third- KC Royals- WS winner in 1985 and some memorable games with NY (secondary to Boston of course) during the 80's. Colorful players (UL Washington's toothpick) and many diehard fans despite their recent struggles. Ewing Kaufman has nothing left on his legacy except the stadium being called the "K!"

MONEY means everything now and it probably won't surprise anyone if the team eventually moves but for crying out loud... can't we leave anything good alone? Our country's economic system is based on fools gold and who knows how much more debt we can acquire before a payment will finally need to be made.

Oh well... back to reality and I hope I'm sitting at Network Associates Coliseum watching A's beat the NY Mets in the WS while tapping my foot to the mesmerizing drum sounds of the 510!

"A's Brand Baseball: The worst best baseball you've ever seen!" -Chavvy

by ohtobe21likehuston on Aug 16, 2006 3:40 PM PDT reply actions

At the end of the day,

sentimentality doesn't pay the bills. Revenue sharing is fine, but there has to be some attempt by the teams to improve their lot. I think that's the purpose of a lot of the contraction hype. Selig is merely setting a fire under the asses of some teams.

by kvn on Aug 16, 2006 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions