Any Chance Payton Can Play the Hot Corner?

by Tyler Bleszinski on Jun 26, 2006 11:37 AM PDT in News Comment 72 comments

When the A's acquired Jay Payton last season from Boston for featured Moneyball player Chad Bradford, many fans and media were afraid that the A's were acquiring a ticking timebomb given his behavior with the Red Sox. Payton claimed he was simply orchestrating his departure from Boston with an explosion in Texas.

He said he was happy to just come to a place where he was going to get more playing time. And he has been a relatively good teammate by all accounts. Remember the caveat to all of this being those terms..."by all accounts." We have to depend on media to get the impression of what's really going on in the A's clubhouse.

Given that, how should we react to this latest mini-tantrum?

I take it in a positive way, for the most part. This is a guy who badly wants to be in a lineup and contribute. And of late, he's earned that right with a nearly .900 OPS in June.

But the fact remains, that playing time may very well be cut in the near future. Milton Bradley wasn't acquired, contrary to perception, to sit on the DL or the bench. He's a genuine middle-of-the-lineup hitter who brings a ton of potential to the table. No one really knows how long it will be until Bradley comes back. Possibly not even Milton.

Frank Thomas will also be returning to the fold very soon, possibly as soon as this weekend. That means that with Dan Johnson absolutely mashing the ball right now (1.117 OPS in June) and Kielty following suit in June (.974 OPS), the ABs are going to be limited for Jay Payton. Kotsay is not going to be sat down because the A's front office believes that Kotsay gives them an edge in centerfield that few teams that don't have Mike Cameron have. Plus, even though Payton might be hot right now, the A's value Kotsay's bat more. He's batted first, second or third in the lineup 267 out of his 268 ABs. Payton has batted higher than sixth exactly 26 times out of his 230 ABs.

So unless Payton suddenly learns how to play the hot corner or Kotsay's back acts up, he will likely find himself on the bench more frequently this upcoming weekend and quite a bit more when The Gamer finally gets healthy. I would hope that for the good of the team he would be able to accept it, otherwise we know Payton can go all Machiavellian on a team. I appreciate the competitive nature, but you have to put team ahead of self and that's the bottom line.

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Payton is about 5th on the team in ABs.

He's got no reason to complain about playing time. The fact that he alone among Thomas, Bradley, Kotsay and Chavez is durable means that he'll get his ABs. I hope his playing time decreases because everyone else is healthy, but I've a feeling he'll finish the year about 5th on the team in ABs because there will almost never be a time when everyone is healthy simultaneously.

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 26, 2006 11:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

My Take

I like Payton's desire to want to play. He does add some value to the team as well. However, he will not be an everyday player when Bradley comes back. Plain and simple.

I don't think this is really an issue with this team. Payton seems to fit in well and Macha has made his position well-known. I also don't see him playing anytime at third base.

by RudiFan on Jun 26, 2006 11:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

That third base comment

was in jest.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Jun 26, 2006 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wash

I say secret late night sessions with Payton and Wash!

by Larry E on Jun 26, 2006 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Roger That Blez. :-)

by RudiFan on Jun 26, 2006 11:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Very well presented, Blez

Payton, because he's healthy, plays excellent defense, and hits doubles, will get a lot of playing time. Whether it will be enough to suit his fancy is another matter.

by Nico on Jun 26, 2006 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Please retire "the Gamer"

until Bradley actually plays and contributes. I beg you.

by RLangford on Jun 26, 2006 12:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe the "One-Gamer?"

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Jun 26, 2006 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"the Lamer"?

Don't make me bring the Scrabble board to the locker room. I will bring it. -- Jonathan Papelbon @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 26, 2006 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

not to be confused with BoCro

"The Maimer"

Putting the "fun" in "perfunctory"

by Poppy on Jun 26, 2006 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

or Delmon Young

"The Aimer"

Don't make me bring the Scrabble board to the locker room. I will bring it. -- Jonathan Papelbon @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 26, 2006 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

or

this guy

by rubin sierra on Jun 26, 2006 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or Scooter Libby

"The Plamer"

Better luck is just a standard deviation away.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jun 26, 2006 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Michael Richards

"The Kramer"

Don't make me bring the Scrabble board to the locker room. I will bring it. -- Jonathan Papelbon @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 26, 2006 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any one of several cANdidates

"The Flamer"

Better luck is just a standard deviation away.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jun 26, 2006 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any one of several other cANdidates

"The Blamer"

Don't make me bring the Scrabble board to the locker room. I will bring it. -- Jonathan Papelbon @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 26, 2006 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

or jay mariotti

the [expletive] gaymer.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jun 26, 2006 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look at us

Pushing the discussion out to the margins like a bunch of lost boys (starring Cory Haim ... er)

by rubin sierra on Jun 26, 2006 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

now THAT was Lamer

Don't make me bring the Scrabble board to the locker room. I will bring it. -- Jonathan Papelbon @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 26, 2006 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I win . . .

with this, the Sveumer: http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/S/Sveum_Dale.stm

by camperdog on Jun 26, 2006 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's an interesting name...er

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jun 26, 2006 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. Yes, you certainly do.

Don't make me bring the Scrabble board to the locker room. I will bring it. -- Jonathan Papelbon @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 27, 2006 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

copyright infringement

As you can see here. Please turn over to me all profits you made by making the above comment.

by rubin sierra on Jun 26, 2006 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

what a Mickey Mouse comment

Don't make me bring the Scrabble board to the locker room. I will bring it. -- Jonathan Papelbon @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 26, 2006 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

that'th dithpicable

by rubin sierra on Jun 26, 2006 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a dithpickin' machine!

Don't make me bring the Scrabble board to the locker room. I will bring it. -- Jonathan Papelbon @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 26, 2006 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seconded

by rubin sierra on Jun 26, 2006 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We don't really know what was wrong with Payton

on that day, he could have been having a bad day, family issues, maybe HIS Ferarri couldn't make it past 110. There could have been many other reasons he was in a foul, or swinging at the first pitch, mood.

by theblackpearl on Jun 26, 2006 12:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I like the competitive nature too...

But you cant throw a tantrum cuz you arent in the lineup one day. That just helps no one at all. All these guys are competitive, but you have to act like a professional And the fact that maybe (who knows) it affected how he played in the game....now we are taling about a huge issue.

I love that the guy wants to be out there...LOVE it....I would be and am the same way....btu he has to act more professionally when something doesnt go exactly his way.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jun 26, 2006 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

You have to wonder

what guys like Melhuse (or in April, Saarloos, or Scutaro, or Perez) think when they hear Payton complain about playing time. How many times has Melhuse finally started getting in a groove only to be benched for another 2 weeks straight?

by Nico on Jun 26, 2006 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

like...

never.

He had about a five to six day run earlier in the year.

JayPay's hitting 409 for two weeks.

Keep wailin' and keep raking, JP, and the hell with all these creampuffs who claim they are fans of this team.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Jun 26, 2006 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And thus concludes

today's installment of Small Sample Size Theatre. I'm your host, Creampuff, an avid Nationals fan who writes for an A's blog. And remember: Whatever happens the next two weeks is a permanent trend. Will we score 7 runs/game and be "clearly a great offense" or will we be shutout a couple times and be "embarrassing"? Find out...But first, a man climbs Mount Everest and he's GAY!!!!!!! I mean, blind.

by Nico on Jun 26, 2006 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and Kielty..

hasn't been doing same??

Nico-- it is pretty simple. Your 3Bman can't hit because he's all banged up; your DH can't play because he's got a tweak and we're in NL parks all week; your starting 2Bman is out; your catcher rarely hits; your CF is in there for defense--

and YOU HAVE A GUY HITTING THE CRAP OUT OF THE BALL, BUT OH NO, HE HAS VIOLATED SOME SORT OF BEHAVORIAL STANDARD THAT CAUSES "FANS" TO SAY "dON'T PLAY HIM, KENNY-- PLEASE,. DON'T PLAY HIM, OK?

Well in my world if Kenny was dead, I'd be playing him every damn game until he proved to me with a bigger sample size that he wasn't hitting.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Jun 26, 2006 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see fans saying that.

I see fans saying, "It's no big deal that he didn't start one of the Giants games. He's playing a lot; he doesn't HAVE to play every day. Kielty needs ABs too, he's swinging well too, Kotsay should play when his back is ok, etc." It's not the fans who are making much over nothing; it's Payton.

by Nico on Jun 26, 2006 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I couldnt disagree more

If the "fans" really wanted him to play, their reaction would be like mine: every now and then I want a guy to bitch out loud about Playing Time. I want a guy with that fire. And, oh by the way, he's red-hot and I want him in there every game.

To say "Aww, it's OK if you miss a game, even though you're our 2nd or 3rd best hitter lately. And better not get pissy about it-- we don't like that in our little clubhouse-- that's not nice."

Screw Nice.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Jun 26, 2006 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe in your "black and white"

world, there are only a couple possible fan-responses, but in fact...I'm not all that concerned about his "tirade" or about punishing him for it. I'm just disinterested in the basis for the tirade. Fine, he's frustrated. But that doesn't mean he was wronged.

Maybe the A's aren't punishing him, so much as saying, "We're not changing our plans just because you had a meltdown over not starting. You think you should play 4 days out of 4 when you're hot, we think you should play 3 days out of 4 when you're hot. And guess what? You're gonna play 3 games out of 4 when you're hot."

It's not like the A's benched him for 3-4 days, to punish him. They just chose not to cater to his tirade by playing him more than the A's feel he should play. And I agree with the A's on that.

by Nico on Jun 26, 2006 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ditto

Well said Nico. And may I add, that when you (meaning Payton) cool down, as you inevitably will, and your lack of walks makes your batting average pretty much your OBP then you may play 2 out of every 4 games. And guess what, we have a clown who is also hot right now (and was just a very key contributer to our last two wins) and we'd like to play him every so often as well so that he stays hot.

Frankly, if Jay thinks that he is not going to get playing time because all the starters will be injury free for the rest of the year then he fails "recent A's history 101".

And when Kotsay loses the ball in the sun it is okay for you to catch it.

Having said that, good on him for keeping his mouth shut the next day and getting all those hits.

by Larry E on Jun 26, 2006 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's nice of you

to tell the rest of us what we really think.

The problem is that it's not just in the clubhouse. In his one AB on saturday he popped out weakly on the first pitch and didn't even bother running to first. I'd rather he showed more fire on the field, and less in smashing things in the dugout.

Knucklehead over there is second or third in the league in home runs. - BB

by andeux on Jun 26, 2006 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and then our non Boy Scout

proceeded to get 4 hits on Sunday.

Give me a guy who can do that over one who runs every DP groundball out hard every day of the week.

I just find the treatment of this incident baffling-- I would think we'd want to rally behind a guy who has been one our best players at a time when the team charged into first place (Unlike Milton Bradley, who has essentially been a spectator to all of it)-- but instead people dis the guy.

Not I.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Jun 26, 2006 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's a good and important point,

andeux. As a coach, if a player doesn't hustle I don't care if he's the "star"--he'll be benched, and it won't happen again. And if it does, he'll be benched again--nothing personal, no lingering bad feeling, just clear boundaries.

You can be infinitely patient with slumps and physical failures and still not tolerate a lack of hustle or team play. In fact, IMO, that's what good coaches do.

by Nico on Jun 26, 2006 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amen

Running hard takes no talent at all. If you're upset about a lack of playing time, do something about it - which is what he did yesterday. Not running hard on Saturday won't convince anyone he needs more AB's.

by IndianaAsfan on Jun 26, 2006 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fire

A guy can have fire - even express it behind closed doors to the manager - without having a on the field public tantrum. I think people are saying that they like his attitude of wanting to play, they just want that and no public tantrums.

by Larry E on Jun 26, 2006 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

its all about roles

Those guys you mentioned have always been a backup or 5th starter in saarloos case. I think these guys accept this role better than a guy like Payton because they dont really know anything else.

Payton has been an everyday player until Boston and now Oakland.

Bill Stoneman is about to be offered three seasons of a right-handed version of Vladimir Guerrero - Rev Halofan

by pickinmachine on Jun 26, 2006 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point, pickingmachine

And certainly most of the guys I mentioned are CLEARLY not every day starter material. Trouble is, Payton is 34--meaning likely not on the rise--and has proven to be a "AAAA-major league" player: Not good enough to start every day for a contender, but too good to be a bench player.

And the A's are using him like a "AAAA-major league" player, while he is saying "I should be an every day starter--look at the last two weeks!"

Which would prompt oaktoon to say "OK" and prompts Beane and Macha to say "You'll play a lot, but not all the time."

by Nico on Jun 26, 2006 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

hehe

yeah, Payton needs to accept HIS role. He aint the same player he was when he was with the mets and rockies.

Bill Stoneman is about to be offered three seasons of a right-handed version of Vladimir Guerrero - Rev Halofan

by pickinmachine on Jun 26, 2006 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Analyzing Payton's sitch

I don't remember him complaining much about PT when he was in his twenties. I think he wants to be a veteran leader on a team full of leaders. Does he play better with a chip on his shoulder? It sure seems so. Is he more interested in his own career stats than contributing to a winning club? Looks that way. (The same is said about Frank but it seems that Billy has no problem with him swinging for the seats every AB). Is he competing with Kielty, Kotsay and even Swish? Does he wish them to play badly so he gains more starts and PT? I doubt its that bad. I commend the fact that other players are not getting involved in this. I appreciate it when Bradley can be seen over and over as having a great effect on Swisher's remarkable 1st half even though his injuries seem to linger.
Bottom line is that the $4M contract was a good deal for him. He carried the team down the stretch last year. Maybe he so desparately wants to finish his career as a leading a young team through the post season, and now that he's hot, he doesn't want to sit. Too bad he doesn't play for Alou.

"If you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem." -George Carlin

by eshock on Jun 26, 2006 12:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Here we go again

The guy is hitting 409 the past two weeks.

Bradley isn't hitting 109, for cryin' out loud.

Kotsay is not hitting, and his back is acting up.

Ronnie Mac has been making about an equal contribution when you factor everything in, but he doesn't play CF as well.

Why does everyone want this guy on the bench??

He helped us win a lot games alst year; he's doing the same now; I for one am glad he got pissed-- that's the kind of attitude I want on this team.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Jun 26, 2006 12:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Who exactly

is this "everyone" who supposedly wants Payton on the bench?

Knucklehead over there is second or third in the league in home runs. - BB

by andeux on Jun 26, 2006 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously,

i want to see what you look like.

Nick Swisher...is he amazing?

by Daveed on Jun 26, 2006 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oaktoon that is.

Nick Swisher...is he amazing?

by Daveed on Jun 26, 2006 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Daveed, imagine a guy

in his 60s, wearing a purple negligee and green suspenders, with a handlebar moustache and a slight paunch.

That's not what oaktoon looks like; I just thought it would be a fun thing to imagine.

by Nico on Jun 26, 2006 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Posted in Oakfan97's diary

"Day Payton: Jay Payton's 4-for-5 performance confirmed that he is a daytime hitter. He's hitting .216 (30-for-139) at night this year and .347 (34-for-91) in day games."
(from today's Chron, as reported by Gwen Knapp)

and his performance the night before (good contact), and as Oaktoon reported, his hot streak as of late, I could see see JayPay's gripe as to 'what do I have to do to get a start?!'

However, based on this yr's stats, it could've probably been a coin toss. Strangely enough, it looks like Kielty and Payton are flip-sides of each other.

Kielty Splits
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6630/splits;_ylt=ArnRCW6hB82M42zVxxBfAP.FCLcF
Payton Splits
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5773/splits;_ylt=ArnRCW6hB82M42zVxxBfAP.FCLcF

vs. LHP/RHP
JP LHP > BK LHP > BK RHP > JP RHP
Home/Away
JP H > BK A > BK H > JP A
Day/Night
JP D > BK N > BK D > JP N

Saturday's game was RHP+Away+Day
JayPay gets the daytime vote, Ronnie Mac gets the RHP vote {Although to be fair, JP's day advantage is much greater than BK's RHP advantage}.
As the tiebreaker, Kielty's away stats are much better than Payton's. BUT, one could easily argue the AT&T could just as easily count as a home game (especially during the daytime).

So if Payton didn't have the full information, I could see him instinctively griping ("I hit way better than Kielty during the day"). But Macha probably had other stats he was using.

Afterall, how many of you have not been happy with a boss's decision, even after the explanation? Payton's is a fierce competitor, like other people have mention, I want him to have that fire to compete and contribute. I'm sure Macha is doing his best to explain things to him, even if Payton doesn't agree with the choices. Frankly, I surprised Payton doesn't get a little more slack, considering our catcher has an even stronger dislike of not starting.

That said, I would expect the starters for the SD series would be Kielty-Kielty-Payton. Fortunately, with NL road games, Macha has the opportunity to bring in Payton with the double switch for a couple ABs, and he'll just have to know to be ready for it.

As a former mgr in retail, I've had to juggle people who want as many hours as they can get, but more than I had to give. And no one likes to be told that day, that they're not working that day. I think Macha could probably ease the tension by explaining to Payton, maybe before the series starts, which days he'll probably start, and how likely he'll be brought off the bench if he doesn't (although the latter shouldn't be as necessary. It should always be unsaid to 'be ready')

As an addendum, I think a lot of this situation is getting blow out of proportion. The only thing we know for sure, is that Payton was unhappy with not being in the starting lineup on Saturday. Words and phrases like tantrum and bad attitude and hissy fit are extremely subjective. What might be 'pissed' to the Fox crew, could be 'he's just venting a bit' to someone that's knows Jay better (or has thicker skin). Payton has been known to be streaky, so why not find a way to ride that streak when the stats favor it?

We knew the situation would be crowded from the start of the season, even with injuries.

1B
Swisher*/DJ
DH
DJ/Thomas/Melhuse
OF
Kotsay*/Swisher*/Bradley/Kielty/Payton

7 players, 5 spots, and I think at this point, Swisher and Kotsay (health permitting) are the only ones locked into the lineup. So that's 5 players for 3 spots. Frankly, I would think that we could rest Thomas a little more and DH Payton when his stats warrant it (lhp+home+day).

by Rickeyfan on Jun 26, 2006 12:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Like I said tongue in cheek earlier, there is no

proof that he was upset about playing time. It all says speculation. Everyone has bad days, why not pro athletes. It was his first day off in a while, and he has to be smart enough to notice everyone, even Chavvy gets a day off sooner or later. I think that is being overblown.

by theblackpearl on Jun 26, 2006 12:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Thank to baseball gods Payton is here.....

I'm not declaring the Bradley/Perez deal for Ethier a bust.... but I'm lookin' over the edge on that right now...I can't call Bradley a middle of the order bat when the last three years he has been on the DL more often than not. Without Payton we would have another River Cat playing outfiled.

by djhbaseball on Jun 26, 2006 12:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I am calling it bust

Ethier for Captain DL, and Mr I hope I see Mendoza before September????? Please.

"Knucklehead over there is second or third in the league in home runs."Billy Beane talking about Nick Swisher

by 510inDenver on Jun 26, 2006 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How do you solve a problem like Mark Kotsay?

(and who's the Sharks and who's the Jets?)

To me the question seems to be less about playing the hot hand, be it JayPay or the Klown, and more about what it means to be "the starter." Others have noted that Payton and Kielty's June numbers put Kotsay's to shame, and that's true. But Kotsay's MO seems to be consistency...steady but unspectacular OPS and RBIs, and excellent centerfielding...while Payton and Kielty nigh on induce whiplash between sizzling hot streaks and head-clutching slumps.

So it's all well and good to want to get the most out of those hot streaks, but how can a team do that while still paying respect to the steadiness of Kotsay? Would that consistency suffer if his days off were doubled to make room for more Payton/Kielty ABs? And how many 0-fers and 1-fers would Payton/Kielty have to take before Kotsay gets those ABs back? And beyond all this, is there a certain additional leeway one gives "the starter," the anchor of the outfield around which the rest of the cast revolves. I'd suggest yes.

Better luck is just a standard deviation away.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jun 26, 2006 12:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Exactly FSU--

what did we bemoan the last few years about Chavez? The 30 HRs? No. The 100 RBIs? The "incredibly hot/incredibly cold" lack of reliability? Yes.

Plus, Kotsay is a team leader, in personality and fundamental play both, who plays a "leader" position--CF. In this way, he is much like Kendall. And Kotsay's offensive numbers are far better overall than Kendall's.

by Nico on Jun 26, 2006 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK, here goes nothing

with apologies to Oscar Hammerstein II

"How do you solve a problem like Mark Kotsay?"

"How do you tell the others it's his D"

"How do you put his bat in there each day"?

"Payton's a twitter"

"Mac's a better hitter"

"His Glove"

"The Gamer's about to rise"

"JayPay's got venom in his eyes"

"How do you make a single into a big fly??"

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Jun 26, 2006 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm afraid

Milton Bradley is "bust city." I love, love, love his attitude -- even when he isn't playing (which is almost every game,) he stands on the top step and roots the A's on.
But I'm just afraid he'll have one "ailment" after another and rarely play -- no arbitration offer, bye-bye after one season.
Payton will play more often than not based simply on the fact Bradley won't, and we're seeing Kielty at his best, two-week stretch which will unfortunately quickly come to an end.

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Jun 26, 2006 1:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I wonder about Kielty

When I watch his approach and swing, and watch Payton's, I actually suspect Kielty is more "for real" of the two. Both will regress, sure, but I've never seen Kielty look this good for so long, from both sides of the plate, and I'm not so ready to write him off as "just having a rare good month". Who knows, but I've been legitimately impressed. With Payton, OTOH, I appreciate what he's contributing right now but I fully expect a big regression of the <thud> variety--it's just what he does, both directions.

by Nico on Jun 26, 2006 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's a guess hitter

and guess hitters are prone to manic/depressive streaks at the plate. He just sees the ball and swings - if he gets the pitch he's guessing at, he'll hit it hard. If he doesn't, he'll look awful.

by IndianaAsfan on Jun 26, 2006 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

SJ Mercury News

Joe Roderick's article is the most definitive source on the Payton tirade and includes a comment from Macha (which I fully agree with):

Outfielder Jay Payton, who went on a verbal tirade in the A's clubhouse Saturday over his absence from the starting lineup, did not want to discuss the matter before Sunday's game with the Giants.

Payton, who went 1 for 4 Friday, hitting the ball hard each time, was benched in favor of Bobby Kielty, who was hitting .405 (15 for 37) with four doubles, a triple and two home runs in his previous 11 games.

Payton is highly competitive and does not like being benched. He had a discussion with Manager Ken Macha in April regarding the matter. Macha said he might have another sit-down with Payton.

``I'd like everybody to be professional,'' Macha said. ``That type of behavior is unprofessional.''

Perhaps Payton will continue his no-talk stance after going 4 for 5 with three RBIs and two runs in the A's 10-4 victory Sunday.

by oak1 on Jun 26, 2006 1:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What the fans think?

Who cares if the fans prefer Kielty or Payton? We don't make decisions.

I mean sure, it's something to talk about, but the arguing above about who fans prefer to see out there -- it just doesn't matter.

by Borbass on Jun 26, 2006 2:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Macha summed it up pretty well, I'd say

by RLangford on Jun 26, 2006 2:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I guessed I missed the mini-tantrum

I admit I only skimmed the article, but it looked like Payton didn't want to talk to the press before and after the game. Isn't that kind of the opposite of a tantrum? I guess he could have stuck around and really popped off, and then we'd all be boo-hooing about that.

I'm not thrilled about Payton's little episode over the weekend, but I doubt that Macha has a high tolerance for crap (unlike Howe) and I trust he'll sort it out. I hope so, because I'd really rather see him in the lineup over Kielty.

by coffee roaster on Jun 26, 2006 2:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

this is all much ado about nada

Because as soon as The Cheerleader... uh, I mean The Gamer... returns he will get hurt again, just like he has done pretty much his whole time in the Majors.

I think Payton should play as long as he's scorching like he is... like Macha always says the players fill out the card with their performances. Kielty's big streak is awesome but somehow I feel he'll go back into the tank sooner than Payton, a more seasoned player. The outfield is kinda crowded with hot sticks right now.

Hmmmm, maybe Wash training Payton to play 3B isn't such a bad idea. Or let's trade him for Marcus Giles.

1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Jun 26, 2006 2:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I meant to say

"Let's trade him for Marcus Giles at the upcoming Atlanta Braves everything-must-go fire sale..."

1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Jun 26, 2006 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have a feeling

this was all blow way out of perportion.

I mean, this was the first time I had ever heard ANYTHING about Payton having "issues" in the clubhouse or about his playing time. Directly from him I have heard, "I want to play, of course, but I understand the situation."

I don't think that he really has a huge problem. He may have had a few choice words about the line-up or maybe said something in the vacinity of the wrong person, who then used that information to make a big deal out of this. (I am looking at you, FOX broadcasting team!) If he keeps playing like he did yesterday, this will be a non-issue!

"This is the best hug in the major leagues, right here!" - Swisher Pics

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Jun 26, 2006 2:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Every manager...

...should have this problem. Three players that can play centerfield; a leftfielder that can play first base - extremely well; two very good outfielders sharing right field because what was to be the regular position player is on the DL virtually all season so far.

One outburst (that we know about) from one player, who has a history of such things, is not a crisis. Bottom line: everyone gets to play in this loooooong season and just perhaps the injuries, in the outfield at least, will be less, the defense sharp and the run production higher than if this manager was dealing with 3 players he sent out there every day.

Payton yells a bit? Good! Yells one day and hits 4 for 5 the next. Sounds good to me. Pride is a wonderful thing. Someone might mention to him that team pride is important, too. BTW, If I were manager, I would give more days off to Kotsay only because of his back, particularly in the heat of the summer.

by doubleplayer on Jun 26, 2006 3:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Jay Payton...

... is not Gary Sheffield, despite his desire to take huge hacks at every first pitch. He doesn't have the clout to demand PT. If Macha felt that Kielty gave him a better chance to win, then he made the right call.

We gave a lot away, in my and many other opinions, to acquire Bradley, and as such, he should be given every chance to lose his PT. Not to mention his tools make him a more attractive possibility than Payton.

IF (and it's a big if) Payton upholds his rep as a mouthbreather, the best solution so far as I can see is to trade either him or Kielty (most likely Kielty since he's younger and can get more in return), and bring up a guy who needs some major-league AB's (Barton, Rouse, Watson, Clark, whatever). Beane showed he's not afraid to trade guys with value against only LHP's last year when he dealt Byrnes (which still grates my cheese). Get the clubhouse right.

by Joey C. on Jun 26, 2006 5:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

correct me if I am wrong

but Payton did not carry us last year, he had a hot July and August, but as I remember it, he hit exactly one HR in Sept. and batted about .190.
I don't think he is the kind of guy to be screaming about playing time, he got plenty of it last year and showed why he is NOT an every day player.
Yes, he is hot right now and that is great, yes he is hitting to all fields which is great but doesn't this coincide with playing NL teams and their pitching? I agree with Nico that Kielty seems to be approaching his AB's a little better than I have seen these last couple of years, maybe that is also because of the NL pitching, I don't know. Let's be honest, we have no All Star outfielders, either playing or on the bench, so fighting about it is futile. I have no comments on Bradley, so far the trade has been awful. I am sure we will offer arbitration if for no other reason than protecting our draft picks in case he leaves. But maybe BB will be worried about a guy who is always on the DL. Isn't that part of being an Oakland A, spend months on the DL.

by china bob on Jun 26, 2006 5:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs