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ALCS Series Preview: Oakland A's vs. Detroit Tigers

So the A's were decided underdogs in the series against the Twins.  They will play that role once again against the Tigers, at least according to the MSM.  We know this because anyone who gives the Yankees the Zed from Pulp Fiction treatment will automatically be the favorites going into the next round.

"Whose plane is this?"  
"It's a chartered flight to Oakland, baby."  
"Whose chartered flight to Oakland is this?"  
"It's A-Rod's."  
"Who's A-Rod?"  
"A-Rod's dead, baby.  A-Rod's dead."

We all know that most will favor the Detroit Tigers against our A's.  Yet how do the teams compare?  Very similarly, believe it or not, with the main differentiator being the approach at the plate.  One is a patient team, the other, not so much.

That being said, I do think the A's have a couple of big hurdles to overcome.  The first being the presence of Kenny Rogers who owns our A's for some reason, especially at the Coliseum.  Rogers attacked his reputation as a postseason choker with a brilliant performance in Game 3 of the ALDS and his presence has to frighten the A's just a bit.  The other is Placido Polanco, who is simply awesome when he faces A's pitching.  You'd think he was Justin Morneau, only a little less...Canadian.

Here are how the matchups look statistically:

Starting Pitching:  Rogers, Justin Verlander, Jeremy Bonderman and Nate Robertson vs. Barry Zito, Esteban Loaiza, Danny Haren and Rich Harden.  This is a very, very good matchup.  Whereas the Twins dropped a couple of notches after Santana, the Tigers will have a challenging pitcher taking the mound every single game.  The Tigers starting pitching finished the season with a 4.00 ERA, lowest in the American League.  The A's were tied for fourth with the Twins at 4.50.  The A's finished the ALDS with the lowest ERA of any of the four American League teams at 2.33.  The Tigers finished second at 3.60.  Of course, Detroit pitching was facing the potent Yankee bats and while the Twins aren't exactly slouches, Bartlett, Punto and Tyner aren't Matsui, Jeter and Sheffield.  You've got to give the Tigers a slight edge here which isn't necessarily a bad thing.  Remember, the A's starters like to be counted out (i.e. Zito vs. Santana).  I still think I would've liked the A's to roll the dice with Harden over Loaiza in Game 2, but we shall see.  Loaiza came through with a very good Game 2 in a place where he's been horrific in the past.

ADVANTAGE:  TIGERS

Relief Pitching:  This is another area where these teams match up extremely closely.  You've got Walker, Zumaya and Jones against Duchscherer, Calero and Street.  The Tigers also edged the A's statistically in this department with the Tigers pen finishing the season with a 3.55 ERA in their pen compared to the A's 3.62 in their pen.  Zumaya is absolutely dominant, but I think the rest of the A's pen matches up very favorably against the Tigers pen.  The A's have a slight edge in this department, even if Street has been a little shaky in his appearances.

ADVANTAGE:  A'S

Offense:  To many, there be no question which team has the better offense.  I would argue that it's closer than people think.  Yes, the Tigers scored 51 more runs than the A's in the regular season.  The A's hold a slight edge in OBP at .340 vs. .329 even though the Tigers had the better batting average.  But during the Tigers freefall over the second half which ultimately led to the A's facing the Twins in the first round instead of the Motown cats, the A's were significantly better.  The A's had a better batting average .279 vs. .274, but the big difference came in the on-base percentage.  The A's OBP was .360 for the second half compared to the Tigers .328.  

And this is one of the areas where I think the A's can take clear advantage of the Tigers.  Most of the Tigers are pretty impatient hitters.  The only player who showed a semblance of patience was Carlos Guillen and his .400 OBP.  Most of the rest of the Tigers hitters hover around .310 or so.  In fact, the Tigers had the second most strikeouts in the AL behind the Cleveland Indians and when you combine that with the second fewest walks in the AL you realize that the A's offense could look dynamic next to these guys.  The A's had 220 more walks this year than the Tigers.

So while many would probably say the Tigers have the edge in this department, I think that if the A's pitchers exploit that lack of patience by going out of the zone to get some swinging strikes, the A's could have the better offense.  If nothing more than you know that the A's hitters will make the Tigers pitchers work for everything they get.

ADVANTAGE:  A'S

Defense:  The Tigers have good defense in all positions, but the Twins did too.  The defense could be viewed as the main difference between the A's winning and losing in the first round as the Athletics made all the plays from spectacular to routine (except the Bradley miss in the ninth in Game 1).  The A's had the second best fielding percentage in baseball and while that does take a significant hit without Mark Ellis, I still give the edge to the A's.

ADVANTAGE:  A'S

Manager:  Many of you will soon find out that I voted for Jim Leyland as Manager of the Year on my SB Nation ballot.  I don't think that changes in the playoffs.  Macha made all the right moves in the first round, even though I still disagree with the decision to send Zito out for the eighth in Game 1, it worked out for him.  He did an excellent job managing the bullpen and he stuck to his guns keeping Chavez batting behind the Big Hurt and that paid huge dividends in Game 3 as Chavy had possibly his best postseason game of his career.  Still, Leyland has pushed all the right buttons with his team despite the fade at the end.  He directed them past an offensive juggernaut in a short series.  Again, the manager doesn't mean much if the starters go out and get whacked around, but I think the Tigers have a guy who has won a World Series.  The A's don't.

ADVANTAGE:  TIGERS

This is once again a really tough call.  But if there is any differentiator, I think the A's ability to work a pitcher and the Tigers lack of patience will pay dividends for the A's in the end.  One thing is for sure, this should be a low scoring series with the quality of pitching on the mound.

The truth is that whoever winds up coming out of this series will be a big favorite against the Cards or Mets.  This series will likely decide the 2006 World Champion, so buckle up and hold on tight.

By the way, I have a new FSN Bay Area column up if you want to check it out. LET'S GO A'S!!!!!!

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Quick note, Blez
11 points of OBP is a really big difference when you're looking at teams.  Only 52 points of OBP separated the Yankees from the Devil Rays.
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 9, 2006 10:57 AM PDT reply actions  

I think I was pointing
more to the stark difference in OBP in the second half than the overall one.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 9, 2006 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

great analysis
going to the game tomorrow, I think zito can exploit their impatience at the plate.  LETS GO OAK-LAND!

by Snitzel on Oct 9, 2006 11:01 AM PDT reply actions  

Zito on KNBR
with Byrnes now.
"The A's are boring because all they do is win."

by Checkswing HR on Oct 9, 2006 11:03 AM PDT reply actions  

thanks!
Going to the ALCS?...Don't forget to bring your "ESPN SUCKS!" signs.

by sf drift king on Oct 9, 2006 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

NOOOoooooo
don't say things like this, "This series will likely decide the 2006 World Champion, so buckle up and hold on tight."
I don't want our guys thinking this way.

We play much better when people count us out. And besides, I think the Mets would be heavy favorites over us. Everyone will be focusing on the loss of Thomas in NL park giving them the advantage.

Going to the ALCS?...Don't forget to bring your "ESPN SUCKS!" signs.

by sf drift king on Oct 9, 2006 11:08 AM PDT reply actions  

I hate to be presumptuos..
but if we make it that far, wouldn't Macha pull Kotsay and put Big Hurt at first?

by Catfish on Oct 9, 2006 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he would have to
we really need Frank's bat in the line-up, so I hope he takes a few grounders at First to get some practice in
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.

by TexasAsfan on Oct 9, 2006 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

No
I think we would just stick with our superior defense. Putting Thomas in would be a HUUUUUGE mistake. I could imagine 2 or 3 plays a game where Thomas would give the Mets at least one out. That's too much for such a good offensive team. If we get that far, we should just hope for the best from our other regulars.

by Philip Christy on Oct 10, 2006 2:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmmmm......I wonder
Did Swisher and Johnson combined have more physically demanding, no asist outs than Frank had home runs this year?  I doubt it.  No way.  Swisher to left Payton to center, Kotsay sits.  Bottom line.

by Catfish on Oct 11, 2006 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

pretty fair analysis
in the games I saw against the Tigers this year I thought the A's pitchers worked pretty well against the Tigers' impatience at the plate. Hopefully that will be the case again.

by OaklandSi on Oct 9, 2006 11:12 AM PDT reply actions  

We aren't underdogs
Most experts I have seen are leaning towards the A's as favorites in this series.  
Please let 2006 be the year, and without an earthquake this time.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 9, 2006 11:17 AM PDT reply actions  

Funny
I've seen several folks on ESPNEWS all saying Detroit and Kevin Kennedy said Detroit.

What experts have you seen saying the A's aren't underdogs?

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 9, 2006 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's about dead even with the official Vegas line
A's -105, Detroit a ever so slight fave at -115
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Oct 9, 2006 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

That means Vegas has no clue
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.

by TexasAsfan on Oct 9, 2006 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly...
Toss up of a series....Sounds about right.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Oct 9, 2006 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

And a toss up means...
...there is no bad pick.  You can make compelling arguments for both teams, hence the series should be compelling.

By the way, three of five on ESPN.com's ALCS page pick the A's -- all five say the series goes no fewer than six games (three say seven).

"So, whatever, Ozzie." -- Nick Swisher

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Oct 9, 2006 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

det -115 oak -105. we be the underdog
for you gambling at home off shore odds say bet $115 to win $100 if you a like hockeytown and for us from the biggity biggity o bet $105 to win $100. what's it mean regarding who will win series. absolutely nothing except bettors favor detroit as of this very moment.

by oakath on Oct 9, 2006 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

When the heck
are they going to announce the time for Game 2?  I know someone said 5 yesterday, but I saw that Fox teased the Cards/Mets as the 5 game on Wednesday.

Anyone know what the time will actually be?

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 9, 2006 11:18 AM PDT reply actions  

game starts at 5pm for all the A's ALCS homegames
i received this email from my A's season ticket account manager just now:
A's Fans & Patrons,

The American League Championship Series is just about sold out but Luxury Suites tickets are still available and believe it or not the prices are pretty comparable to the other tickets in the stadium:

Price per person in the ALCS for a suite in a luxury suite - $100. That's 24 tickets in a luxury suite for $2,400. Limited number of 18 seaters for $1,800.

-The Field Level tickets which are now sold out are $75 per person. So for $25 more you get a seat in the comfort of a private box!

-So round up some friends, clients, co-workers and come cheer the A's on to the World Series !!

-Game Times: Tuesday Oct 10th @ 5pm, Wed. Oct 11th @ 5pm, Tues Oct. 17th @ 5pm (if necessary), Wed Oct. 18th @ 5pm (if necessary)

Please let me know if you have any questions or if you'd like to make a reservation while suites are still available!

Go A's!

by gotgreen on Oct 9, 2006 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

So which series gets on Fox and
which is delegated to a different station?  It has to be the NLCS given the presence of a New York team, I'm guessing.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 9, 2006 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

I read somewhere that Fox is doing
split telecasting -- that is, some markets get one and some the other.

by OaklandSi on Oct 9, 2006 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

they will be broadcasted simultaneously
on a split feed with FX.

from FOX's website

**FOX SPORTS SPECIAL** MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL: NLCS GAME #1 AND ALCS GAME #2 [Split Feed with FX]

FOX SPORTS PRESENTS NATIONAL AND AMERICAN LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES ACTION IN SPLIT REGIONAL FEED WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 11, ON FOX AND FX

FOX Sports presents simultaneous coverage of Major League Baseball's 2006 postseason with Game #1 of the National League Championship Series and Game #2 of the American League Championship Series. Teams, sites and broadcasters TBA. The games air live and in HD Wednesday, Oct. 11 (8:00 PM-CC ET / 5:00 PM-CC PT) on FOX and FX. (SP-0713) (TV-N/A) CC-HDTV 720p-Dolby Digital 5.1

[VIEWER'S NOTE 1: This broadcast is a split regional feed with FX so that both games are carried in all markets.] [VIEWER'S NOTE 2: BONES and JUSTICE are preempted this night.] [VIEWER'S NOTE 3: Local programming airs in primetime on the West Coast.]

by gotgreen on Oct 9, 2006 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

See, THIS is annoying...
The networks try to make sure every LDS game is in its own time slot, yet they put two LCS games up against each other?

It's a head scratcher.

"So, whatever, Ozzie." -- Nick Swisher

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Oct 9, 2006 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sure..
But would you rather have an LCS game on a weekday in the afternoon?  I know I wouldnt.  Im glad they avoided that
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Oct 9, 2006 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're both right
It's inconsistent and doesn't make much sense on MLB's part, but I'll take this year's ALCS tv format any day, week, season, over this year's ALDS tv format.
Bill James on Duane Kuiper: "It's absolutely incredible that a player this bad could be given 3000 at bats in the major leagues." -- Baseball Abstract, 1982

by blueconversechucks on Oct 9, 2006 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

MLB confirms
Within the last 10 minutes mlb.com has updated their postseason schedule page, showing both AL and NL games on Wednesday at 5:00.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/schedule/ps_06.jsp

The Green and Golden Road to Unlimited Devotion

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 9, 2006 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

ALCS Tickets available
I didn't want to post another ticket diary, since I already took up space on the front page with that last week. Anyway, just as with the 1st round games, I bought up tickets at 9:01 am when they went on sale thinking a bunch of people in my fraternity would want to go, but it's too expensive for most college students.

So I've got about 6 extra tickets for both Game 1 and Game 2, but the scalpers on Cragislist sicken me. I'd much rather sell them to legitimate A's fans at my cost.

If interested, email me at jrube@stanford.edu. These tickets are Print at Home, so I can email you the link to the ticket upon receipt of Paypal or Neteller payment.

by NP15 on Oct 9, 2006 11:26 AM PDT reply actions  

Just sent you an e-mail ...
I hope there is something left ...
Self-appointed VP, BBG Groupies, NorCal Chapter

by angus hanger on Oct 9, 2006 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Keep those Tigers Hitters Swinging
I think the key is definitely keeping the tigers hitters swinging at pitches they can't drive. They're deadly on easy to drive pitches, but they obviously don't have the patience to take a lot of walks. Zito sounds like a good candidate to exploit that I hope. I just hope we don't continue the jeckyl/hyde routine with our batting. We need some consistently good performances from our order, especially with the nasty pitching coming at us. I hope we can hit some 95-100mph fastballs for once!

by tomoyo on Oct 9, 2006 11:29 AM PDT reply actions  

I heard on the radio
that Rogers will not pitch in the Coliseum in Game 2; they'll save him for Game 3 in Detroit.

Why, you ask? I have no freaking idea. Thanks, Jim!

'Course, this would mean that Kenny pitches Game 7 at the Coliseum. Maybe that's the idea.

"The A's are boring because all they do is win."

by Checkswing HR on Oct 9, 2006 11:31 AM PDT reply actions  

That would be horrible
but then couldn't we get Harden in Game 7?
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.

by TexasAsfan on Oct 9, 2006 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

My revised take on Kenny...
I said before he was not a big-game pitcher and that he will fold in October.  He proved me wrong Friday night.

With that said, right now I don't think there's a difference between him pitching in Oakland or Detroit.  He has a comfort level pitching in Oakland, but just as much of one in Detroit.  Therefore it's mute.

Oh, and as was pointed out, he would get Game #7 in the Coliseum if it gets that far.  This would be the biggest game of the career for Kenny.  Do you think lightning will strike twice?

Lance Armstrong can make homophobic jokes on ESPN, yet Harold Reynolds pays the ultimate price? Explain that to me.

by gmoneymcg on Oct 9, 2006 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

moot...
<nitpick> Issues that are debatable, doubtful, or of no practical value are moot.
Things that can't or don't make sound are mute. </nitpick>

All good points otherwise. I really hope there is no game 7. Kenny should be playing golf by then.

by Elvez on Oct 9, 2006 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gotta Love the Homerism
So the A's first half offensive struggles don't count, but the Tigers second half ones do?  Even though injuries played into their struggles?

I know a lot of stat heads are going to hate it, but you can't quantify what Polanco does to that team.  For some inexplainable reason, they hit better with him there and keep on trucking.  

I wouldn't be surprised a lick if the Tigers outscore the A's in this series (that doesn't mean they'll win though).  

I will be surprised if we outscore them.

by fadedash on Oct 9, 2006 11:33 AM PDT reply actions  

Wait, so I get accused of homerism
here and in the last series preview, I get accused of "not being a fan."  Guess I can't win.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 9, 2006 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Woo hoo!
You have critics! :P

That means they care!!!

"I have an owie; can I go to first?" ~louismg on Vlad

by baseballgirl on Oct 9, 2006 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Someone once told me
that you've made it once you have critics.  Guess I've made it :-)

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 9, 2006 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

you and your homey Rev
have indeed "made it" then ;-)
"A's Brand Baseball: The worst best baseball you've ever seen!" -Chavvy

by ohtobe21likehuston on Oct 9, 2006 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

A guy who creates the most heavily
trafficked sports blog on the internet dedicated soley to the A's is accused of being a homer?  What a ridiculous proposition.  But if you are an A's homer....at least you're one with his eyes wide open.  Nice article.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Oct 9, 2006 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is that most trafficked sports blog
related to the Oakland A's, or are we talking about all sports blogs in general?

by Salvatore on Oct 9, 2006 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

All sports blogs, if I'm not mistaken.
A remarkable achievment. Especially when one considers the A's "small market" status.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Oct 9, 2006 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

If that's true...
that truely is a phenominal accomplishment. A big congratulations to Blez and all the others who work to put this thing together.

by Salvatore on Oct 9, 2006 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just don't agree with your train of logic
in analyzing that section.

Why are you only looking at the 2nd half there, but aren't looking at only the 2nd half of starting and relief pitching?

No comment on the affects of Polanco?

Just seems a little empty.

by fadedash on Oct 9, 2006 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just another day where I wish
fadedash were a front-page writer instead of Blez and his empty analysis.

Hey, I actually said it with a straight face!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Way to exaggerate
what I said.

I called it a "little empty".

If you can't handle criticisms without sour grapes, that's fine.  At least add something more beneficial than that.

by fadedash on Oct 9, 2006 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK, fair enough:
I wish you were a little front page writer.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fadedash
is absolutely correct.  C'mon AN editors, show some sac and elevate your game!  Why can't this be brought to Blez's attention?  What is a comment section for?  Just a pat-on-the-back?  AN is something greater, and no one here is fallible.  I take deep offense at ripping on a poster when they simply point out an objective criticism.
"We're Menudo," -BB

by eshock on Oct 9, 2006 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, speaking as a front page writer...
...it's seventeen ways of annoying to work really hard on a piece, only to have someone dismiss it as "blatent homerism".

Blez tries really hard to be an objective fan, and he did a good job with this matchup preview. It's frustrating when someone makes an offhand comment labeling him as something he tries very hard not to be.

"I have an owie; can I go to first?" ~louismg on Vlad

by baseballgirl on Oct 9, 2006 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm all about constructive crisitism...
...that's what the comments are for, but that wasn't it, IMO.
"I have an owie; can I go to first?" ~louismg on Vlad

by baseballgirl on Oct 9, 2006 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Constructive criticsism:
No one wrote "blatent homerism" and in any case "blatant" is spelled "blatant." (;

Seriously though, almost everyone enjoys the front-page writers' posts, which you know, so what's the point of letting yourself be upset by the inevitable group of malcontents who want to criticize you?

""Let's [stay] home and do this shit!"

by mikeA on Oct 9, 2006 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not upset ;)
I just can't spell!

Seriously, though.

A.L.C.S. How can anyone be upset?!

"I have an owie; can I go to first?" ~louismg on Vlad

by baseballgirl on Oct 9, 2006 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

MikeA, my reason for jumping in
is that while it's not in the CGV realm, nonetheless I consider it to be pretty insulting to refer to a writer's "homerism"--the A's won 93 games, so they're probably going to be due some praise now and again!

I used to ignore about half the comments I wanted to reply to with indignation, and now I've gotten better and I ignore about 19 out of 20. But this was the 20th. See y'all in another 20!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

wrong e/a transposition
We were supposed to accuse Blez of rampant Nomarism.

(And we were supposed to critique Nico's animal costumery: yes, his rampant ram-pants-ism.)

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 9, 2006 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have to agree, eshock:
None of the front-page writers is fallible.

<goes on being perfect>

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

He said
no one here is fallible.  Are you saying that I'm fallible?
""Let's [stay] home and do this shit!"

by mikeA on Oct 9, 2006 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, MikeA, you're right:
No one is fallible. My mistake.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mistake = fallible.
Never admit a mistake!

by DavidA on Oct 10, 2006 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Polanco is huge
and I said that at the very beginning:
 The other is Placido Polanco, who is simply awesome when he faces A's pitching.

He eats the A's alive and would be someone I fear more than anyone else in the Tigers lineup.

I weigh the second half heavily because to me the A's become a different team in the second half.

I still think the Tigers batting approach could be their downfall if the A's have a good pitching plan.  I think the A's could work the Tigers starters pitch count up early even if they are dealing.  I think that could be a deciding factor.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 9, 2006 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Given the presence of Harden,
the absence of Crosby, and the health of Loaiza, the A's are, quite literally, more the team we saw in the 2nd half than the team we saw in the 1st half. It makes perfect sense to weigh the 2nd half more in terms of predictive value.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I for one still believe that
the 19 and 31 slide displayed by the Tigers looms larger than their 3 game winning streak against the Yanks.  Call is sample size or whatever, but dropping the division to the Twins on the last day of the season is also a notable stat.  
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Oct 9, 2006 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

The other thing is that the Yankees offense
got out of its game and that's working pitchers because the Yankees seemed to be down constantly.  If the A's can avoid getting down too early, it should bode very well for them.

By the way, ESPNEWS has been all Torre, all day today.  Even my favorite of the ESPN "properties" is going down the toilet.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 9, 2006 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL...so true.
Michael Kay's radio show from NY is being broadcast on ESPN.  We've gone from the Jeter love fest to the Torre deathwatch.  

The Yanks offensive collapse is one for the ages.  No way would anyone predict the Yanks being taken in three straight.  Did the Tigers outplay them or were the Yanks due for a fall?  The seemed to be pressing awfully hard, as if the weight of the expectations placed on them proved to much to bear.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Oct 9, 2006 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

As much as I'd rather see A's coverage
The Torre death watch is Emmy-winning stuff.  Funniest TV this side of the Colbert Report.  I'm loving every minute of it.
Bill James on Duane Kuiper: "It's absolutely incredible that a player this bad could be given 3000 at bats in the major leagues." -- Baseball Abstract, 1982

by blueconversechucks on Oct 9, 2006 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

when does Dr Frist remote-diagnose Torre?
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 9, 2006 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

on the VERGE of being on notice
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 9, 2006 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Momentum is overrated
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 9, 2006 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

So why
look at 2nd half batting stats and not look at 2nd half pitching stats?

by fadedash on Oct 9, 2006 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

2nd half pitching stats are almost identical
       ERA/OPSA/WHIP
DET    4.29/.760/1.41
OAK    4.22/.762/1.44

by boilerdan on Oct 9, 2006 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

The difference, to me, is that
The Tigers got about 20% of those innings from Zach Miner, who won't start in the ALCS, while the A's got about 40% of those innings from Blanton and Saarloos, neither of whom will start in the ALCS. None of those three guys pitched especially well in the 2nd half, and it's the A's who get to drop twice as much of that baggage from the bottom of the stat heap.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Saarloos turned in
better numbers in the second half than either Zito or Haren, if I'm not mistaken.
""Let's [stay] home and do this shit!"

by mikeA on Oct 9, 2006 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Look, if you're going to mess up
my excellent arguments with petty facts then I'm not going to play.

<turns to face corner of sandbox>

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

That they are
and I'm not questioning which rotation has the edge.  

I'm just saying if you're going to say that the trueness of this team is represented by their 2nd half performance, why are we looking at year long stats of the A's rotation and bullpen?

Shouldn't there be continuity?

by fadedash on Oct 9, 2006 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree
that they were a different team in the 2nd half, which makes me question why you didn't stick to 2nd half analysis of the pitching staff.  

And obviously, even though they were a different team in the 2nd half, it's not like we can discount what happened in the 1st half.  Good pitching, like the Tigers, can make any team's offense look as bad as the first half A's (see NYY).

I agree that the Tigers batting approach, like Minnesota's, will work against them.  Especially because Detroit is filled with fastball primary hitters. Zito, Loaiza, and Haren all have breaking pitches that can do damage.

I just don't see how the A's offense is going to handle Detroit's pitching staff.  I'm sure there is a stat for it somewhere, but I think its safe to say that the A's are one of the teams that struggle the most against elite pitchers.

by fadedash on Oct 9, 2006 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

What is your point?
That the Tiger's pitching is superior and Blez just hand-picks stats to support his homerism?

I think most people would agree that the Tigers have an excellent pitching staff, though I'm not sure which of their starters qualify as "elite". Without having all the numbers in front of me, I think their pitching suffered more in the 2nd half than the A's did, and the A's have a "new" Loaiza, and hopefully a healthy Harden to shift even further in our favor. I had Verlander and Bonderman on my fantasy teams, and their 2nd half stats definitely took a nose-dive. Bonderman looked very, very good against the Yankees, which frankly surprised me. Verlander has nasty stuff, but gave up a lot of baserunners and was lucky to not give up more runs.  

Anyway, I don't think Blez was being too biased in picking the numbers he did; most people would say the A's and Tigers both have good, deep pitching staffs, regardless of 1st/2nd half splits, whereas most people who look at the season stats for offense might conclude that the Tigers are a superior offensive team. They are certainly a good offensive team, but as Blez is trying to point out, the team the A's fielded in the 2nd half is more indicative of their offensive potential, and should narrow the gap considerably.

by kcfries on Oct 9, 2006 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow.
"hat the Tiger's pitching is superior and Blez just hand-picks stats to support his homerism?"

Yes that was my point exactly.  </end sarcasm>

by fadedash on Oct 9, 2006 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agree, kcfries, and furthermore
while Haren is LCS and WS tested (in contrast to any starter except K. Rogers who imploded), the Tigers are relying on a lot of guys (Verlander, Bonderman, not sure about Robertson) who are hitting a career high in IP at any level. In contrast, Harden and Loaiza are especially fresh, having missed regular season time. So it's utterly reasonable to give the A's rotation the edge, just as it is fine to give major props to the Detroit rotation.

But to call a difference of opinion "homerism" is just pathetic, IMO. Why not chalk it up to "anti-midgetism" while you're at it, since that doesn't enter into it either?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't question which rotation was better
but I wouldn't expect you to grasp that.

I was simply wondering if the A's are such a 2nd half team, why look at the 1st half stats of anything?  Focus on the 2nd half stats of the rotation and the bullpen then as well.  

We include the first half of the season for the pitching staff, but not for the offense? Why?

by fadedash on Oct 9, 2006 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Reaching...Grasping...
Groping...Grasping...

...Nope, sorry, too stupid. :-(

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for
answering my questions.

by fadedash on Oct 9, 2006 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's my answer, though
I can't speak for Blez (I didn't make the point you're now asking me to defend). The single most important hitter to the A's, IMO, is Frank Thomas. Thomas is currently the "second-half" version of himself, not the "first-half" shell of himself who struggled through an extended spring training in real time. The "second-half SS," not the "first-half SS," is also the ALCS SS. Those two factors alone would make the second-half a better predictor than the April-May results.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go get Salvatore two aspirin.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

You want Frank to play SS?
Maybe in the World Series...
The Green and Golden Road to Unlimited Devotion

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 9, 2006 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think
I'm getting a headache trying to follow all this.

by Salvatore on Oct 9, 2006 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

2nd Half is More Important
How a team finishes the season is more predictive of how they'll play in October than how they started the season. The A's weren't good in April or May. Nobody argues that. But the Tigers were bad in August and September. Yeah, they had three great games in the ALDS, but that doesn't erase a very disappointing second half. All told, the A's have been playing much better baseball than the Tigers lately. Now maybe Detroit's turning it around, but they're still the same team that got stomped by the Royals to close out the season. Just because they beat the Yankees doesn't mean they've solved their inconsistency problems.

by Dann on Oct 9, 2006 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well I do believe that you're
overrating the A's defense and underrating the Tiger's.

But fine article, nonetheless.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 9, 2006 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tigers Def definitely has an advantage
I think you're right there, according to the prospectus, tigers def efficiency - .712, A's - .694. I think crosby's poor year and some other factors have really hurt our defense compared to the past. Not to mention the loss of ellis is going to hurt. I'd rate the tigers ahead of A's in fielding currently. (give me the old healthy crosby who was a plus fielder again)

by tomoyo on Oct 9, 2006 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Excellent Analysis
I think the series really comes down to the patience of the Tigers' hitters against the A's pitchers, compared to the A's hitters ability to score against the Tigers' starting staff.  I think the series will be close either way.
I like the underdog status that goes along with the A's, but I also think that the winner of the ALCS will be the WS favorite.

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 9, 2006 11:35 AM PDT reply actions  

Eric Byrnes
is subbing for Gary Radnich on KNBR right now, presumably in exchange for a lifetime's supply of Ritalin.  Oh my god, he can't formulate a sentence longer than 5 words... it's like a cross between Ernest Hemingway and your neighborhood crackhead.

This is a sure sign that the End of Days is truly at hand.

1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Oct 9, 2006 11:40 AM PDT reply actions  

Radio Byrnes
Yeah, I don't know who Byrnezy's trying to emulate there with the few  terse words style. But he does seem to have a knack for interviewing and questioning the guest. Pretty good for a novice and fairly interesting to listen to.

by Salvatore on Oct 9, 2006 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm really looking forward to this series
I am cautiously optimistic that the A's will come out on top. If both teams play the way they played against the Twins/Yanks, this will be a very dramatic series. No matter what happens, I want this to be a match-up for the ages.
"We need to bring back those orange glow-in-the-dark balls we used to have growing up for games here." - Zito on the Metrodome

by aymlam79 on Oct 9, 2006 11:42 AM PDT reply actions  

I wonder if the starting pitching advantage
shifts from the Tigers to the A's solely on the fact that it's now Robertson, Verlander, Rogers, and Bonderman, not Verlander, Rogers, Bonderman and Robertson, as you described above.

I am so very happy they're sending Robertson out there twice and Bonderman just once.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 9, 2006 11:45 AM PDT reply actions  

I disagree
About you handing an advantage to the A's lineup and bullpen.  Detroit's lineup is dangerous; every hitter has some pop.  Our staff, especially Zito and Haren, gives up a lot of HRs.  They will out hit us this series, no doubt, and their hitters match up well with our staff.  Furthermore, it's such a weapon to have a guy like Zumaya in the pen.  He will basically shut us down for 2 innings, and while Duke can do that as well, he's not impossible to hit.  Zumaya throwing 102 mph is not something A's hitters are looking forward to.  Being an A's fan, I don't like this matchup with Detroit at all, and I can firmly say we'll be underdogs.  Vegas and "Experts" will probably go with Tigers in 6, and on paper, I don't disagree.  However, the A's have relished the role of underdog all year, and while they don't have a true advantage anywhere except for defense, they could scratch and claw the series out.  We were built to win close games.  Hopefully we'll see the A's win game 7 at the Coliseum.

by baseb3383 on Oct 9, 2006 11:49 AM PDT reply actions  

I disagree with your disagree ;)
Here's a simple question, who would you rather have, duch or zumaya? I'd take duch any day over him this season. Same with the Tiger's hitting homers. Solo homers just aren't that scary. Power isn't everything. The A's have been proving this for years, especially with their pitching. We certainly aren't a power pitching team, and haven't been even back with the Big 3(Hudson and Mulder were 91-94mph guys) Also we haven't had many huge homer hitters recently, with Frank and Swish providing the most power since the Giambi Days. There is great might in finesse and walks, that is why we have an advantage in those areas.

by tomoyo on Oct 9, 2006 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd take Zumaya
everyday of the week and twice on Sundays.

But I agree with your general point that the A's have better hitting. I also believe that bullpen-wise, it's a tossup.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 9, 2006 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll always take the guy who throws 100mph
for 2 straight innings
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.

by TexasAsfan on Oct 9, 2006 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Zumaya vs Duch
Zumaya -  
IP 83.1 Hit 56 Run 20 ER 18 HR 6 Walk 42 K 97 ERA 1.94 WHIP 1.18 BAA .187      

Duch -
IP 55.2 Hit 52 Run 18 ER 18 HR 4 Walk 9 K 51 ERA 2.91 WHIP 1.10 BAA .244

Hmm when lining up their stats, they look pretty close together. Duch has pitched less, but he has a similar homeruns rate, allows more hits, but allows far fewer walks. I really like the advantage in WHIP and the fact his strikeout rate isn't that much lower than Zumaya, considering he pitching 15mph slower. I don't see Zumaya as being better than Duch at all presently, he's got velocity, but he's also lacking command with the 42 walks. I think potential-wise, Zumaya will probably be the better reliever(Possibly Gagne with less command). I'm going to call it a TIE.

Meanwhile I think we should bring up another comparison
Street - ERA 3.31 WHIP 1.09
Jones - ERA 3.94 WHIP 1.27

I'm certainly worried about Street's effectiveness recently, but I'd be more worried with Todd Jones. (Who also had a poor september). I think it's pretty clear who's the better pitcher here.

Now one thing to note is that our middle relievers are definitely looking worse compared to the tigers ones. Walker and Rodney have better stats than Kiko and Kennedy. I'd consider the rest of the pen to be basically a wash. I think the A's still have a slight advantage in the pen with Duch and Street, but it's a pretty minor one at best.

by tomoyo on Oct 9, 2006 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm glad you looked
that up.  I wouldn't be surprised is several of these games came down to 1 or 2 run 9th's.  Nice to know thier closer is just as bad as ours.

by Catfish on Oct 9, 2006 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd take street over Jones
he has been really shaky his last few outings
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.

by TexasAsfan on Oct 9, 2006 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rodney has good stats,
but I'd take Calero over Rodney, because Rodney is so inconsistent--sometimes he just loses it and can get shelled, while Calero, though not a model of consistency or dominance, is pretty reliable.

So personally, I'd take Calero and J. Walker if I could have any two.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Accept when you walk someone....
and the A's leave them on base.  Let us not have a short term memory.  I've watched over 100 games this year and one of my most consistent frustrations was runners LOB.....that and Frank hitting SOLO home runs.  By far the majority of his big flys came along with ONE RBI.  Sure we are great at walking a runner in, but aside from adding to his pitch count, what good does it do to get two walks and leave them out there?

by Catfish on Oct 9, 2006 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

All I want are some timely hits now
I'm just imagining that once we learn to hit with runners on base...we'll become the unstoppable offensive juggernaut. Until then, let's just go out and get some TIMELY HITS for this year!

by tomoyo on Oct 9, 2006 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think people fall in love
with the guys who can break triple digits and while Zumaya is the best reliever of any pitcher in the series, I feel like the A's have more depth with their top four.  Zumaya is a monster, but the A's have several monsters.  Granted they can't throw 100 mph, but they get the job done.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 9, 2006 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Duke is a better pitcher
than Zumaya, especially if you factor in the option to pitch a second inning. Then I think Zumaya is better than Street, who is about equal to Homophobe Jones, and both are a bit better than Calero. Joe Kennedy and Jamie Walker are both decent, but are worse than their numbers would suggest.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Zumaya can't pitch a 2nd inning?
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 9, 2006 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting stat on Zumaya
(and pretty much the only negative one): Against lefties, he has walked 21 in 29.2 IP. The batting average against is almost identical vs. lefties and righties (.188/.183), but the walks are very high. As a result, Zumaya's WHIP vs. lefties is 1.38.

Sure he can go 2 innings, but I'd rather face him in his second inning than in his first. With Duke, I don't think it matters.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Zumaya's splits
For pitches 1-15, he's got an OBP of 272, SLG 263
For pitches 16-30, OBP 346, SLG 307
For pitches 31-45, OBP 176, SLG 188

Duke's Splits
Pitches 1-15, OBP 278, SLG 367
Pitches 16-30, OBP 250, SLG 205
He's pretty much never thrown more pitches than that.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 9, 2006 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth
If you're a stat person, check out the FIPs:

Zumaya 3.38
Duke   2.90
Street 2.61
Calero 2.93
Kennedy 2.92

Statistics say Zumaya isn't all that. In fact, if you buy into FIP, Det's bullpen isn't that good.

by MrIncognito on Oct 9, 2006 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tigers
Yep I think we need to get into the pen.  Zumaya tough but they do not have a lot of depth, they rely on their starters.

Bob

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Oct 9, 2006 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you buy into FIP
Detroit probably shouldn't be in the playoffs.

No, I don't buy into FIP.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 9, 2006 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Zumaya has been worked...
very often in the division race and ALDS.  I don't think they can keep using him that much so maybe he is a little better than Street but be able to won't work as much as a rested Duke.

by As06 on Oct 9, 2006 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Everybody's points are well taken
I think the true debate lies in the bullpen and the lineup for one dominant player vs. depth.  In the playoffs, dominance most often shines through and bullpen depth is a little overrated.  After looking at both lineups more closely, I would give a slight edge to the A's in hitting, but still give Detroit's bullpen the edge.

Bullpen:

Detroit has Zumaya, who is obviously the most dominant reliever on either team.  One poster above did a statistical analysis, with Duchscherer having a better WHIP than Zumaya.  However, I would look at the BAA of Zumaya (around .180 I believe) as the more effective indicator of dominance.  Even if his control isn't great, the likelihood of the runners he walks scoring off of hits is very low (which accounts for some of the ERA difference).  Someone on one of the major sports sites made a comparison of Zumaya and Jones to Rivera and Wetteland from '96; I think that's fairly accurate.  Jones is hittable, much like Wetteland, but the 9th inning isn't always the most important.  Overall, Oakland has the deeper bullpen with Duke, Street, and Calero as the top 3 options, but Detroit has the better left-handed specialist in Walker and a dominant stopper in Zumaya.

Hitting:

Obviously, we have big Frank, who's been the Giambi of this year's lineup.  I think back to the Yankees series when Giambi (the MVP that year) was in our lineup to express what a difference having a big bat in your lineup means.  He collected almost every big hit, while most of the other guys, while certainly above average hitters, were neutralized by good pitching.  However, Detroit has quite a few clutch and reliable bats; Magglio is no slouch, and Pudge isn't either.  While Detroit's lineup doesn't walk much, they can hit, and hit for power.  It's awfully tough to pitch to lineup that has a power threat in every spot.  That having been said, good pitching will shut down most hitters except for the dominant ones.  I expect Frank to carry the load even when Detroit's power arms are on the mound.  Most of our other hitters will be overmatched.  Then again, so will most of Detroit's lineup.  Edge to the A's here (thanks for signing with us Big Hurt, we really needed you).

by baseb3383 on Oct 9, 2006 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Detroit
also plays small like the Angels and will run and bunt against the A's. That is according to Barry Zito,  not me.

by Salvatore on Oct 9, 2006 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope they do that
I'd much rather have those guys bunting than hitting balls deep.

by baseb3383 on Oct 9, 2006 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

A's Lineup
I guess I would lean towards the advantage with the Tigers as well.  

 But think Chavez and Bradley will be the key.  I have to think that the Tigers will not allow Frank to beat them, which will leave a lot of clutch situations to Chavez.  While Bradley needs to provide a little more production out of the 3 hole.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Oct 9, 2006 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

<penning thank you notes>
a) Robertson is the worst choice for a game 1 & 5 starter than the Tigers have.

b) Rogers should be starting game two, and he's not.

Glad both of these things are the case!!!

Great preview, Blez! I literally cannot wait for this series. I think it's going to be great!

"I have an owie; can I go to first?" ~louismg on Vlad

by baseballgirl on Oct 9, 2006 11:55 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm sure Tiger fans are penning their own
thank you's also, even though it looks like a fine decision in most of our eyes.  

"Thank you for not pitching Harden in game 2 and twice in this series but instead going with E-Lo who we crushed this year!"

For the record, I'm fine with making him the game 2 starter. Just as how I'm sure Tiger fans are fine with having Rogers not pitch game 2 to have him ready for game 7.

by fadedash on Oct 9, 2006 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm a little nervous
about how excited everyone is about Robertson starting Games 1 & 5.  He's obviously not their best pitcher and may be their 4th best, but his numbers are actually relatively good and he could clearly beat the A's.  These are all going to be difficult games.

by DavidA on Oct 10, 2006 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Least Likely
I say the A's sweep Detroit.

Maybe the least likely outcome for the ALDS against Minnesota happened, so maybe the least likely possible scenario will prevail against Detroit!

Weird season, weird post-season! Go A's!

by Borbass on Oct 9, 2006 12:03 PM PDT reply actions  

Not sure
No one knows. But I'm not complaining.

haha maybe someone knows, but there doesn't seem to be a real immediate reason for it.

by Borbass on Oct 9, 2006 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not complaining either. :)
I'm relieved we won't have to face that <censored> until Game 3.  But I'm just curious about this decision.  Hmmm.

by AsGirl on Oct 9, 2006 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jimmy Leyland
mentioned the old "if it 'aint broke, don't fix it" wisdom when asked.
"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 9, 2006 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can't wait for this series to start.
It's going to be AWESOME. It's strange to be contemplating a seven-game series instead of a five-gamer... it's been so long.

And I am thrilled that the Yanks aren't in it. Hahahahaha. Serves 'em right.

Can't wait for tomorrow! :D

"He's the heart and soul of the green and gold."

by whiteshoes40 on Oct 9, 2006 12:09 PM PDT reply actions  

Wow..
Temperatures in the mid-40's for Friday night's game in Detroit.....adds another entire element to the Series
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Oct 9, 2006 12:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Maybe they should have Harden
pitch THAT game since he is Canadian and loves the cold?

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 9, 2006 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

He would be nasty in that weather...
Hitting in temperatures that cold is extremely difficult
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Oct 9, 2006 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

and he should be going in Game 3
otherwise wouldn't he be going 2 weeks without pitching?
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.

by TexasAsfan on Oct 9, 2006 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

You want Haren only once?
I know I want to see him throw twice.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Oct 9, 2006 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I want to see Haren throw only once,
because the series doesn't go 7 games, because the A's win in 6 or less. :-}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well we could use Haren in relief
Goliath, dissatisfied with his size advantage, decided to buy David's sling, which took steroids.

by TexasAsfan on Oct 9, 2006 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

World Gone Mad
"Temperatures in the mid-40's"?

Have you been outside today? wtf?

Squeak!

by ArakSOT on Oct 9, 2006 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, I have...
But not in Detroit
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Oct 9, 2006 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sadly, I've been outside
for a total of 4 minutes today, while I walked to work.  :-(
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 9, 2006 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's exactly what I tell my students!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

My sister always told me
that you meet cooler people at work when you smoke, plus you get to take more frequent breaks.
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 9, 2006 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's so true!
I can vouch for that from my days working for RJ Reynolds.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

PLUS
five flights of stairs on each trip. Stairmaster for Thunderbutt. Smoking is GREAT for my health!
Squeak!

by ArakSOT on Oct 9, 2006 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Holding Rogers back for Games 3/7
presumably means the A's have a better chance of winning in 6, while the Tigers have a better chance of winning if it goes 7.

Given the fact that N. Robertson is starting two of the first five games, I like the A's chances of going up 3 games to 2 and having the opportunity to close it out in 6.

And that's my official prediction: A's in 6 or Tigers in 7, hopefully the former.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 12:32 PM PDT reply actions  

not buying it
I'm not going to predict anything based on matchups, because I think the only one that I got right so far was Bonderman vs. Jaret Wright.

Rogers is NOT that great of a pitcher. The A's have had trouble in the past from Santana (who hasn't?) and the Metrodome, but that didn't matter last week, so I'm not conceding anything to Detroit as far as Kenny Rogers is concerned. I think teams beat each other, not just pitchers.

He's just not that great of a pitcher, and a good start against the mighty Yankees doesn't change that, if you ask me.

The A's could have just as much trouble with Robertson, Verlander or Bonderman.

There's really no telling and I don't think looking at the matchups will mean much come gametime.

by Borbass on Oct 9, 2006 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rogers
My understanding is that Rogers has few playoff wins, I view him in the Glavine Maddox pitchers who allow a lot of contact and can be hit.  Those types are much easier to face then the Clemens etc. who are more over powering.  Rogers does not scare me as muxh as Verlander or Bonderman who if on can be exteremly over powering.

Bob

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Oct 9, 2006 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not any more
scared of Rogers than Verlander.  I'm just glad they're pitching Robertson twice.  Why should I be afraid that Rogers has had a lot of success pitching in the Coliseum both for the A's and against different A's lineups that were worse against LHPs?  We can handle Rogers.  

I also think home/away splits for pitchers are meaningless.

""Let's [stay] home and do this shit!"

by mikeA on Oct 9, 2006 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

good point
The team has changed quite a bit since Rogers' "dominance" over the A's.

Just like the team has changed a lot since our premature post-season exits.

I agree that I'm glad they're pitching Robertson twice. Funny how these sorts of things can't be considered good for the team till long after we see the results.

I have a feeling the A's don't care who is pitching. They seem determined to not lose a game.

by Borbass on Oct 9, 2006 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

One thought
I know you shouldn't say things like "well, take away the 3 games we lost by double digits and our run differential is great," but what would the ERA of the Tigers look like if you eliminated their all their games against KC?

by sprtsnwyn on Oct 9, 2006 12:37 PM PDT reply actions  

Calls the curve?
Jerry Crawford will umpire his record 12th League Championship Series.  Article states Crawford will be behind the dish for Games 1 and 7, anyone know if he's a Zito curve fan?
"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 9, 2006 12:40 PM PDT reply actions  

hm
If he's done 12 CS series, he should be able to see a curveball.

by Borbass on Oct 9, 2006 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unless he's "guessing fastball,"
as some umpires appear to do when they give up on Zito's curve halfway to the plate. Can't you watch the whole pitch, Blue? It takes, like, 1.2 seconds, max.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good thing Ron KKKulpa isn't working the playoffs
He's the poison ump that started the fight with Milton.
The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 9, 2006 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Crawford:
Average number of runs in his games behind the plate: 12.30

The over is 19-12 in the game he has umped.

Strikes on 61% of pitches.

12.4 K's per game todal and 7.2 walks.

Looks like a hitter's ump so far this season.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Oct 9, 2006 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks
Good info
"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 9, 2006 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Quick study using Retrosheet
Crawford rarely gets a West Coast assignment.  For 2000-2005 I was only able to find 3 games started by Zito where Crawford was the home plate umpire.

June 22, 2002 at Cincinnati:
Zito:  7 IP, 3 H, 3 R, 1 BB, 6 K
A's win 10-3, Zito was the winning pitcher

June 6, 2003 at Philadelphia:
6 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 3 BB, 3 K
A's win 7-4, Zito was the winning pitcher

July 15, 2005 vs. Texas at Oakland:
8 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 2 BB, 5 K
A's win 7-2, Zito was the winning pitcher

Retrosheet doesn't yet have the game logs organized by umpire for 2006 so I can't check that directly.

by cynthia2003 on Oct 9, 2006 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow
Wasn't that July 05 game Zito's near no-hitter that Shrek broke up with a HR?
"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 9, 2006 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's correct
And this is strange but true, but in going through those records I found that Crawford worked behind the plate in A's games a total of eight times from 2001-2005.  The A's were 7-1 in those games.  And in three of those eight games, the A's pitcher took a no-hitter into the 8th inning.  Besides Zito on 7-15-05, the other two were Mulder on 7-6-01 at Arizona and Lidle on 7-19-02 at the Coliseum vs. Texas.

by cynthia2003 on Oct 9, 2006 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's FREAKY.
Thanks for digging that up!  I hope the trend continues.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 9, 2006 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now that has to take the cake as
the greatest irrelevant stat I want to treat as gospel!

No-no in Game 1--book it!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cmon, don't woof-
I'll take a shutout and a no-hitter into the 9th.
""Let's [stay] home and do this shit!"

by mikeA on Oct 9, 2006 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Adding one more game to the list
I found one Zito start in 2006 where Crawford was the home plate umpire:

June 1 at the Coliseum vs. Minnesota
7 IP, 4 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 5 K
Zito was the winning pitcher as the A's won, 4-0

So Zito's career stats for four games with Crawford behind the plate are:
28 IP, 14 H, 6 R, 6 BB, 19 K (4-0, 1.93 ERA)

by cynthia2003 on Oct 9, 2006 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is ridiculous
I can't wait for Game 1 now.  First time I've ever gotten excited about an ump!
Bill James on Duane Kuiper: "It's absolutely incredible that a player this bad could be given 3000 at bats in the major leagues." -- Baseball Abstract, 1982

by blueconversechucks on Oct 9, 2006 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is Great News
I think the home plate umpire makes a big difference for Zito's curve.  I'm so excited about this home plate umpire that I'm finally making my first post on AN!

by ChucklesSD on Oct 9, 2006 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Oh No!"
I guess the "Oh No!" response to the umpire introductions will need to be put on hold. For one day anyway.
A's 2006 record when I attend: 13-8

by peanut gallery on Oct 9, 2006 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or when Crawford's name is called....
they could respond with, "Hell yes".
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Oct 9, 2006 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or just a big cheer and a standing O.
That would probably freak him out, though.

by DavidA on Oct 10, 2006 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hat tip
Maybe he'll tip his hat, a la Torii Hunter.
My record at A's games this year -- regular season: 13-8 / postseason: 1-0

by peanut gallery on Oct 10, 2006 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

All bets are off
And there is no comparing 1st, 2nd or combined half stats to what the A's did against the Twinkies.  Let us remember that the Twins OWNED us during the regular season at the Met.  Scoot wasn't that clutch, Swisher didn't get that many doubles, Kotsay didn't hit an inside the park HR, Zito, E-Lo, and Haren NEVER put starts back-to-back-to-back like that, and Chavy rarely had mulit-hit games.  As with Detroit v. Oakland in 1972 and the race for the Division this year; this series will come down to the intangibles; guts, energy, enthusiasm, and stubborness.

ADVANTAGE: A's

by Catfish on Oct 9, 2006 12:47 PM PDT reply actions  

And because he's pitching twice,
ELo. Which means it comes down to GEESE. Canadian geese? Harden? Hmm...
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

We took the Tiggers at home
...and they took us at their home. So it likely comes down to home field advantage tipping the scales toward our boys.

After the Tigs took out the Yankers, they celebrated like they'd won the World Series. This tells me they've accomplished their wildest dreams for the season and are ready to go home.

Meanwhile, the A's still have 8 more games to win.

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 9, 2006 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ummm, did you watch the A's celebration
after we swept the Twins?  I don't think it make sense to predict a series based on 'celebration intensity.'
Bill James on Duane Kuiper: "It's absolutely incredible that a player this bad could be given 3000 at bats in the major leagues." -- Baseball Abstract, 1982

by blueconversechucks on Oct 9, 2006 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, while not perfect,
the metrics on correlating "celebration intensity" to "series success" are quite good, and suggest that in the ALCS I will probably eat a roast beef sandwich while watching one of the games.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Better metrics
I believe the correct application of the poster+punster metrics suggests you'll be eating ham.
The Green and Golden Road to Unlimited Devotion

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 9, 2006 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's fine--
As long as it's not "crow".
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

random
does anyone good hotels around comerica or where the a's are staying in detroit

by pieful35 on Oct 9, 2006 12:59 PM PDT reply actions  

wow
somebody from ESPN actually thinks the A's are going to win the ALCS!

A's, Tigers likely to go the distance

by gotgreen on Oct 9, 2006 1:51 PM PDT reply actions  

Patient and Impatient teams
The big contrast here, as others have already mentioned, is the A's very patient approach at the plate with the Tigers' extremely impatient approach. In late August Todd Jones wrote about his team's hitters:
We have a weakness that sometimes is our strength: We love to swing. We're aggressive, and, as a result, we swing at a lot of borderline pitches. Against teams with bad pitching, that's OK because they make mistakes over the middle of the plate. But it's a problem against teams that know how to expand hitters' strike zones.

At the time I thought this was interesting for a few reasons:

  • I was kind of surprised to see Jones criticize his own teammates so directly in print (although he also gave them some credit for being able to adjust). As far as I know, none of his teammates went all Arthur Rhodes and made a big deal out of it.
  • Since it seemed like the Tigers would be the A's likely first-round opponent, I thought it boded well for our success against them.
  • I had frequently heard the exact same criticism of the A's contrasting approach: that taking pitches works well against bad pitchers, because they'll get behind and either walk you or throw a hittable pitch over the center of the plate, but against the good pitchers you end up taking too many strikes early in the count and being forced to expand your zone too much.
The first round of the playoffs did nothing to resolve the question of whether one approach or the other is ultimately better against good pitching: both teams managed to score a fair number of runs, while the A's pitching shut down the free-swinging Twins, and the Tigers stymied the patient (and powerful) Yankee lineup. It will be interesting to see what happens now that each lineup is facing higher-quality (on average) pitching than they did in the previous round.

One related (and slightly worrying) fact that I mentioned after friday's game: A's starters, though they didn't allow many runs, struck out only 5 batters over the 19 innings they pitched against the Twins. I think they'll need to get some more swings-and-misses in order to keep up their success.

Some are sabermetricians.

by andeux on Oct 9, 2006 1:51 PM PDT reply actions  

Great points, andeux--
Seems to be it's about scouting/adjusting, that you need to throw a lot of early strikes to the Yankees (as Bonderman did) and expand the zone against the free-swinging Twins, which means you can't have one-approach-fits-all as a pitcher.

If that's indeed the key, I like the A's chances, because they are regarded as the single most prepared team in the area of advanced scouting.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

i'd venture
a guess, without looking it up, that the twins in general didn't strike out too much last season.  it seems they are more interested in putting the ball in play and going from there.  i think the tigers are the same way.  what i mean is that the a's don't have to strike out alot of tigers to have success, they just have to keep the ball on the corners and often just out of the zone.  the tigers will swing at those pitches, and that should translate into lots of outs for a's pitching.

for this reason i like have zito and elo pitching games 1 and 2.  both are savvy enough to keep mixing up their pitches and throw lots of them that aren't quite strikes.  while haren and harden have better stuff, they are also more prone to throwing their heaters over the fat of the plate, which is what the tigers hitters feast on.

by Backspin on Oct 9, 2006 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Twins/Tigers
But the biggest diference between the Twins and Tigers is that The Twins have a couple really great hitters with a bunch of mediocre contact guys.  The Tigers Have a bunch of good hitters and pretty much everyone on their team can take you deep.

The Tigers to me have a much tougher lineup to to bottom.  But the contrasting styles will be interesting to watch.  Can we get them to chase pitches, will we get key walks or will they throw strkes and put our hitters in the hole.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Oct 9, 2006 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good Pitchers can Handle all Approaches?
That's the message I take away from it all. If you're a truly good pitcher, you can handle both the patient teams with strikes, and the impatient teams with nasty stuff all over the place. And the only counter to that is a really good hitter who can adjust to the pitcher ala....Frank Thomas. Sadly I never get the feeling we have enough elite hitters who can take on anyone. I wish we had more hitters who I felt had a good shot against a Santana type pitcher... Eric Chavez was supposed to be one of those guys, but he's obviously not hit that point yet... Maybe Milton Bradley can reach that point too, the jury's out on everyone except Frank.

by tomoyo on Oct 9, 2006 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is a HUGE stat!!! Unearned runs!!!
The A's and Cards are the only two teams to surrender under 50 UN-earned runs.

To, me it is not just the number of runs that do not score because of error.

It is the number of runs these defenses TAKE off of the board.

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Oct 9, 2006 2:45 PM PDT reply actions  

exact start time
don't know if its been discussed yet, but does anyone when the actual game starts, not fox's coverage, because i don't want to ruin the experience by seeing/hearing any of AJ pierzynski on the fox pregame show

by pieful35 on Oct 9, 2006 3:00 PM PDT reply actions  

Both Tues and Weds first pitch at 5:19
"Even I don't believe half the things I say . . ." Barry Bonds to New York press corps, 2004

by millbraeforAsfan on Oct 9, 2006 3:04 PM PDT reply actions  

How many ANers
are going to make the trip out there?
It's It. What is it? aim: encryptthisthat

by Hit4TheCycle on Oct 9, 2006 3:04 PM PDT reply actions  

game 4 and 5 bound
taking the trip east from chi town

by pieful35 on Oct 9, 2006 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Game Two Tickets Availiable...
Field Level Seats @ Face Value.

Can't make it to Game 2, so want to get these to a real A's fan.

Section 105 Row 29

E-mail me at gdub171@gmail.com

They are print-at-home tickets

"I see Milton Bradley being the Oaktown player that breaks out this year." breaks out... breaks out of where? jail?

by gdub171 on Oct 9, 2006 3:15 PM PDT reply actions  

M-Rod wants them!!!
IF you still have them.
"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Oct 9, 2006 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

wish I could make it..
Did you go to GW?

by ChucklesSD on Oct 9, 2006 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tickets Still Availiable...
Buyer fell through if anyone is interested. Face Value Field Level Tickets along the Right Field Line Section 105.
"I see Milton Bradley being the Oaktown player that breaks out this year." breaks out... breaks out of where? jail?

by gdub171 on Oct 9, 2006 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

All I can say....
is I CAN NOT WAIT for the ALCS series to start!!  Let's go A's!!

by SunnyDay on Oct 9, 2006 3:25 PM PDT reply actions  

LCS umpires named
Jerry Crawford will serve as the Crew Chief during the American League Championship Series, extending his record to 12 L.C.S. assignments. Now in his 30th year as a Major League Umpire, the Philadelphia native also has worked four Division Series and five World Series. Crawford's crew will consist of Mike Reilly, Derryl Cousins, Chuck Meriwether, Gary Cederstrom, and Hunter Wendelstedt.

link

i never remember if umps were good or bad at calling games ... except for angel hernandez. angel hernandez sucks!

by gotgreen on Oct 9, 2006 3:31 PM PDT reply actions  

No McClelland?
Maybe he'll do the World Series.
It's It. What is it? aim: encryptthisthat

by Hit4TheCycle on Oct 9, 2006 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just give up gotgreen
evidence
"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 9, 2006 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

haha noooooo!
not again! i'm always too slow! :(

by gotgreen on Oct 9, 2006 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Those tickets are tempting
but I don't like going to the ballpark anymore because of all that loud, crappy music they play--rap music-loud distorted rock music. It's like the whole damn world is run by the MTV generation. And, they blast your ears with it like we're all deaf. No thank you. I'll have the best seat in the house at my own house and hang out with my dogs. Why can't they ever play some thundering Beethoven out there?  Because they're a bunch of dead Christian white guys...    well, believe me,  I can say a lot of things here that would really piss a lot of people off,  but this isn't the place. Back in the 70's I saw a Led Zepplin concert there on A Day On The Green they called it. So, loud music has it's place==at music concerts

by Salvatore on Oct 9, 2006 3:52 PM PDT reply actions  

unfortunately
you are out of marketing range so don't plan on any changes being made on your behalf.  Lucky that you got to see Zeppelin because I saw Jimmy Page (The Firm) and thought that was unbelievable to see a MEMBER of LedZep.

Go A's! ! !

"A's Brand Baseball: The worst best baseball you've ever seen!" -Chavvy

by ohtobe21likehuston on Oct 9, 2006 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

At that Day On The Green
Jimmy Page played this nice acoustical set for about a half hour in the middle of the concert--it was pretty cool.

by Salvatore on Oct 9, 2006 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Salvatore to A's and Tigers:
"YOU DAMN KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!"
I don't know how I did it, but I quieted this crowd in my head today. -Zito, 10/3/06

by LAXile on Oct 9, 2006 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

What does being dead and Christian and White
have to do with it?

I'm none of those while my 2 favourite composers, Bach and Beethoven, were all of those.

You want thundering Beethoven, but then don't want loud music?

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 10, 2006 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thundering
has more to do with Beethoven's style of composition in some of his pieces--real powerful and dramatic to the ear. Other question is too darn loaded and escoteric for here--let's save it for the coffeehouse.

by Salvatore on Oct 10, 2006 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

So what thundering Beethoven would you
want them to play? The opening of the 5th symphony? The last movement of the 9th? The Eroica?

Or maybe some of the piano sonatas? Apassionata? Hammerklavier? Or Opus 111?

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 10, 2006 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's all good...
If I had my druthers I might not want them to play any music, whatsoever--maybe between innings. If I were in charge I would mix it up--like jazz, raggae, Latin, rock, hip hop, classical and so on. But, I do love Beethoven's 9th.

by Salvatore on Oct 10, 2006 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

How 'bout Cage's 4'33"?
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 10, 2006 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Small Sample size or NOT:
Harden has been a doormat for the Tigers current line-up.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/bvsp?playerId=5588

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Oct 9, 2006 4:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Two Words!
MARCO (boom boom) SCUTARO!!

by Amnesiac727 on Oct 9, 2006 4:38 PM PDT reply actions  

Word
MARCO (boom boom) SCUTARO

by ChucklesSD on Oct 9, 2006 5:09 PM PDT reply actions  

Zito is under a lot of pressure...
going against Robertson at home. Kind of like the pressure on Santana in game one at the Metrodome. Same scenario will take place if Zito loses. I predict that if the Tigers beat Zito in Game 1, the ALCS is over. Unfortunately, I like Zito's chances better on the road as he has only lost three road games all year and those were shutouts of the A's. Hopefully, Barry will feed off of the Coliseum faithful and spare us the early inning hijinxes.

Let's GO OAKLAND!!

Pick to click: Kendall

Underdog Revolution!!

by OaktownRajah on Oct 9, 2006 5:32 PM PDT reply actions  

Hmm, I dunno...
I predict that if the Tigers beat Zito in Game 1, the rest of the ALCS will still be played.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I predict that if Torre gets his walking papers
the World Series will be cancelled and we will all be forced to wear Eric Byrnes pin-stripe ESPN suits for 6 months, stay celibate, and eat only gruel and tree bark.
I don't know how I did it, but I quieted this crowd in my head today. -Zito, 10/3/06

by LAXile on Oct 9, 2006 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

If we all wear those Byrnes pin striped suits
celibacy is pretty much a given.
The Green and Golden Road to Unlimited Devotion

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 9, 2006 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

QOTM

by calvin @ Athletics Nation on Oct 9, 2006 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought
the World Series was canceled when the Yankees lost.
"We are a complete freak show." -- Billy Beane

by day-to-day on Oct 9, 2006 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

it is indeed canceled and ESPN has been
shut down until the start of 2007 spring training. All is yankees' fault.
"We've got a whole new team with a lot of smart, experienced veterans. It's time to create some new history." -Ron Washington.

by haroldMD on Oct 9, 2006 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

losing the first game at home = ALCS is over
may I ask WHAT??
"We've got a whole new team with a lot of smart, experienced veterans. It's time to create some new history." -Ron Washington.

by haroldMD on Oct 9, 2006 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

BREAKING NEWS...
Torre has not been fired yet.  Lou Pinella says, "what the hell".  No word yet on Jeter's handicap on the golf course.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Oct 9, 2006 5:37 PM PDT reply actions  

MORE BREAKING NEWS....
Hour 49 of the Torre deathwatch.  George remains silent on Smoky Joe's fate from his Tampa fortress.  Mourners begin leaving dead pinstripes as a memorial at Yankee stadium.  On a related note, several Yankee's were seen golfing in NJ.  After several whiffs and misses off the tee, they began throwing them down range.  Arod's throw sliced badly off the fairway.  
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Oct 9, 2006 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ken Macha was on KNBR earlier...
he said that Harden was throwing in Arizona simulated games. He said that based on his outings, he might pitch Game 3! Did anyone else hear that? I think it would be awesome. Who says we have to have the same rotation twice around? Better to get a dominant ringer pitcher some work in so we can see if he can change the playoffs instead of saving him till the end.
Underdog Revolution!!

by OaktownRajah on Oct 9, 2006 5:40 PM PDT reply actions  

I Was Wondering
what they would do to get harden work, and how it would go.  If it went that well why not game2?  Thanks for the tip.

by As06 on Oct 9, 2006 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

more
http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061009&content_id=1706784& ;vkey=news_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak
Forst noted that if Harden, who missed the bulk of the season with back and elbow injuries, were to get the nod for Game 3, he'd be available to face the Tigers in Game 7 if it's needed. Not so if he works Game 4, because the club won't bring him back on three days of rest given his limited workload -- 11 2/3 innings in three starts -- since coming off the disabled list in September.

Righty Dan Haren, however, would be available to work Game 7 if he started Game 4, and Forst said that will be among the considerations factoring into the decision.

"Dan's been strong all year," Forst said. "[Starting him in Game 4] probably leaves your options open more."

I miss Bill King :(

by gojohn10 on Oct 9, 2006 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd really rather not see Haren
start Game 7 on three-days rest. Game 7 is a bad time to find out, for the first time, how he pitches on 3-days rest.

At this point, if ELo is the "safe choice" to pitch twice in the series, throw Harden once in Game 4 and be done with it. And if Game 7 goes into the 11th inning, put Harden in, sit back and relax.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2006 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was thinking the same about Haren
if he's gonna be our possible game 7 pitcher, then he MUST pitch game 3. There's no need to do that, we got 4 very good pitchers to start games, they MUST be used with the regular 4-days rest, unless something really bad happens.

let it be zito, loaiza, haren, harden,
          zito, loaiza, haren + everybody.

LET'S GO OAKLAND!!!

"We've got a whole new team with a lot of smart, experienced veterans. It's time to create some new history." -Ron Washington.

by haroldMD on Oct 9, 2006 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you guys misunderstood
what Haren's role would be in a Game 7, if Haren starts Game 4.

Harden would start Game 3 and 7 and Haren would be available for relief in the 7th game.

Haren wouldn't start the 7th game on 3 days' rest. Why would they do that?

Is anybody else alarmed by this from the article:

"'I thought he got a little tired in the fourth, and he gave up a few hits and three or four runs in that one inning, but there were a couple of misplays in the field -- a ball was dropped in the outfield, things like that. Overall, though, he was fine. He's ready to go.'"

This doesn't exactly bolster my expectations for a quality start this weekend from Rich if he gets tired after, what, 40 pitches and gives up three or four runs to a bunch of minor league hitters. I don't care how bad the fielding was.

Did anybody see his start against LAA? What was he doing wrong?

"The A's are boring because all they do is win."

by Checkswing HR on Oct 9, 2006 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Harden/Sar or Blanton
If we can get 4-5 quality innings from Harden, we can bring in Sar or Blanton to bridge us through to Duke in the 8th. A full 7 or 8 from Harden would be great, but I'm not sure it's realistic.

by Dann on Oct 9, 2006 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kenny Rogers in Game 3 in Detroit is bad...
Kenny Rogers in Game 7 in Oakland is even worse. Let's hope it doesn't go that far.
Underdog Revolution!!

by OaktownRajah on Oct 9, 2006 6:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Rogers
If we can beat Santana, we can beat Rogers.
Jim

by jarforcefatherofforce on Oct 9, 2006 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmmmm....Game 7
But I've got tickets to game 7 :-(  What's a fan to do?

by ChucklesSD on Oct 9, 2006 6:24 PM PDT reply actions  

It's Kiger
Mark Kiger was added to the roster, promoted from AA Midland. I think this was the right choice. He might not do much offensively, but he can play 2B, SS, 3B and replaced Ellis at the University of Florida. Defensive depth = Good decision.

by Dann on Oct 9, 2006 7:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Wow...
...can you imagine how this kid must feel? He probably won't play, but at least he'll have the best seat in the house.

by doubleplayer on Oct 9, 2006 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kiger kills lefties.
I hope he plays game three (and maybe two as well).

by thomasstearns on Oct 10, 2006 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

QUESTION REGARDING STANDING ROOM ONLY
Where is this area located?  Can anyone give me more information as to how this experience is at the Coliseum?
"One win in a row," Paul Cornwell.

by jav on Oct 9, 2006 7:41 PM PDT reply actions  

Behind the foul poles
What I understand is, there is a platform on the 2nd deck, sort of near the American flag. If you have seen the Friday night car giveaways, this is where the car is parked and the people stand there hoping to win the car.

(I hope that's not too confusing!)

"Maybe if I lay here in the dirt, nobody will notice I've forgotten how to hit" ~Crosby in ANtics

by streetfan on Oct 10, 2006 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wonder what the big deal
is with these tarps and why they can't come down for the playoffs to accomodate the fans. Something else I suspect that Lew Woolf publically doesn't want to go into.

by Salvatore on Oct 9, 2006 8:02 PM PDT reply actions  

ALCS: Tigers and A's
Well they made it to the next round but the opponent has not changed very much. The A's just saw this team twice before in the Twins and the Angels. Superb pitching, pesky hitting and lights out bullpens. A's fared well against the Twins but power pitching with plus control will kill the A's offense. BUT I say the Tigers will FOLD!!! The A's are gonna blast the young pitchers with their patient approach and clutch hitting from Frank and Marco! Kenny Rogers in Detroit will be beatable with a great pitching performance from Danny boy. Harden will close it out in Game 4 with lights out filth! Series will end in 4! Tigers are going down! A's all the way!!! Green Love!

Let's GO OAKLAND!!!

Underdog Revolution!!

by OaktownRajah on Oct 9, 2006 8:37 PM PDT reply actions  

I heared Zumaya onced threw...
a 130 MPH fastball, and Leyland smoked a whole cartoon of Winston's after one horrendous loss.

by baseballbill on Oct 9, 2006 8:55 PM PDT reply actions  

thoughts
Hi, all.  A near-traumatic event 8 days ago has kept me off the blog, but all has sorted itself out (I think) and I'm back to post:

   Overall, Blez, your analysis comparing the two teams is solid, and great to read.  I believe that it won't mean too much in this series, and I agree that the playoffs is a "whole new ballgame", literally as well as figuratively.  The A's are going to be playing in front of their biggest, loudest crowds of the year so far, as long as the games are close.  This adrenaline-pumping scenario will be enough for the A's to get that key two out hit (did somebody say "Marco"?), and make the key play at the right time.  I don't think we saw how good the A's could really be during the 2 games in the horrordome last week.  Outside of the possibly blown call on the Kendall "tag" Friday, the A's have done almost nothing wrong, or at least nothing that has cost them leads or games.  Sure, they got a break by facing Brad "handicapped" Radke, but the Tigers don't scare me the way that the Twins did...yet.
LET's GO A's!

by wolffpackdavid on Oct 9, 2006 10:02 PM PDT reply actions  

It's a white roof man, give The Gamer some love.
Miller-You forgot about Scutaro! Morgan- So did Santana...

by tresselfan on Oct 9, 2006 10:03 PM PDT reply actions  

Not Blez homerism, but I'd take the Tigers'
defense over the A's with Crosby and Ellis out.  Tigers' defense seems to be better at C, 2B, SS -- which are 3 of the 4 up-the-middle positions.  A's are probably better in RF, with the other positions pretty even.

by WaddellCanseco on Oct 9, 2006 10:31 PM PDT reply actions  

Tigers
First off, this will be a great series!!

If you're wondering whether the Tigers who were 40 games over .500 earlier in the season and beat the Yankees in 4 games were going to show up vs. the Tigers who struggled the last 2 months of the season, I think it's the Tigers who beat the Yankees.  Their confidence is back and their starting pitching is back.  

That said, the A's starting pitching is good enough to go toe-to-toe with the Tigers.  I like the idea of pitching Harden in game 3.  I do give the bullpen edge to the A's.  The Tigers have Zumaya but the rest are hit and miss.  I love Kennedy, Duke, and Calero.  Street vs. Jones is close, I'll give Street the slight edge.

I disagree that the Tiger's offense is not as good as the A's.  They are both hit and miss but the Tigers have more players that can deliver consistently. The Tigers are agressive, though, so I'm hoping the A's pitching can keep them off balance.

I think the first two games are split.  Game 3 is the key.  Put Harden in and knock off Kenny Rogers who's coming off the game of his life.  The A's get the advantange, come home 3-2, and wrap it up in game 6.

Go A's!!

by Wolverine on Oct 9, 2006 10:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Prediction: if A's management decides to pitch
Harden in the 3rd and 7th games instead of Haren, the A's will win the series. If they pitch Haren twice instead of Harden, the Tigers will win. Haren will give up too many home run balls and has been very hittable and unreliable  during much of the 2nd half. At this stage, a serious contender needs to take risks and get their most dominant 3 pitchers in a rotation to pitch twice if needed. Hopefully, Beane will have the correct gut instinct to put his chips on Harden over Haren. Harden was quoted  as saying he is rested and champing at the bit to pitch as soon as possible.

by Vegas Ace on Oct 9, 2006 11:02 PM PDT reply actions  

I can't wait any longer.
I want it to start NOW. I'm ready. Let's go.
When the lights...go down...in the city...

by senork on Oct 9, 2006 11:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Homerism
is a non-issue.  Blez analysis of this series is a good one - better than the analysis of the Twins series where I think he was a little too scared of the opponent and gave them a little too much credit.  Nonetheless it is always interesting and informative reading the opening posts as you can't get any in-depth analysis in the "mainstream" media on the A's.  That's why I love this blog.  

That being said I sure wish Blez would get over the "mangerial mistake" of leaving Barry Zito in after the sixth inning of game 1 in the Twins series.  He's mentioned it again today for at least the third time.  That was not anywhere near a mistake, in fact, it would've been outright absurd for Macha to pull Zito after the sixth (or for that matter the seventh) inning as he had a three hitter going and was up by two runs (3 to 1 after seven innings) against Santana for christsakes!  You let the leader of the staff lead the team to victory and build team confidence especially when Zito was still dealing quite well and under 100 pitches. It was a pitchers matchup for the ages on the big stage and living up to all expectations and you're calling for a pitching change after the sixth inning - sheesh!!  I don't care how good our bullpen is - you don't mess with a thing of beauty. Really, Zito should've closed it out.

The only other time I cringed while reading this blog was in the last couple of weeks of the regular season baseballgirl posted that Marco Scutaro was in no way a big league player and should not be batting in an important spot at the end of game.  I posted in Marco's defense and got some hate for it by other (I guess) protective AN'ers?  I think Marco has proved to all doubters that he is a worthy big leaguer now.  And Zito has importantly gained the respect of his team and fans alike for bravely battling deep into a huge game like a star (unlike two years ago when he pulled himself out of a game we were winning against the Angels on the second to last game of the season - a game in which the bullpen blew and the Angels clinched the pennant).  

Throw statistics out the window.  This is a hungry A's team with gamers who don't play afraid like Thomas, Kotsay, Kendall, Bradley, Payton, Scutaro, and now... Chavez and Zito.  Facing a very worth and exciting opponent against the Tigres I say - A's in seven.  Go A's!!

by jdub69 on Oct 9, 2006 11:19 PM PDT reply actions  

I told all these sumbitches
before the first series that " Scutaro was going to shine."  Better listen to your old Uncle Salvie.

by Salvatore on Oct 10, 2006 7:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

It might be easier
to listen to Uncle Salvie if he didn't call everybody "sumbitches" all the time.
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 10, 2006 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like Scutaro
You don't have to throw the stats out to say that Scutaro should be staring.

The stats say that Scutaro is a better player than Crosby, right now at least.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 10, 2006 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd rather not have Scutaro staring
Especially at pitches through the zone.
When the lights...go down...in the city...

by senork on Oct 10, 2006 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh No! Lou Pinella!
...is in the booth for FOX! Damn you Fox Executives if you spend half the series talking about Joe Torre!!

by Dann on Oct 9, 2006 11:41 PM PDT reply actions  

maybe
but if it means no JB or TM, i'll take it

by pieful35 on Oct 9, 2006 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Of course Joe Buck won't be doing the ALCS
  1. His Red Birds are in the NLCS, so that's obviously where he'll be.
  2. Fox is definitely going to be paying more attention to the NLCS, because it has two of the biggest franchises in the NL, plus it'll be in New York for at least half of it (cue the 9/11/2001 flashbacks, WTC memorialand construction scenes, etc.).
  3. He hates the A's.
When the lights...go down...in the city...

by senork on Oct 10, 2006 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

That should be "memorial and"
Though Memorialand sounds like a good name for a new part of Disneyland.
When the lights...go down...in the city...

by senork on Oct 10, 2006 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

more stats to digest
interesting take on both sides "well hit" and "misses"

http://www.inside-edge.com/espn/postseason_06/tigers_lcs_preview.htm

http://www.inside-edge.com/espn/postseason_06/as_lcs_preview.htm

Pretty much what you'd expect except that it shows the a's as the fastball hitting team and the tigers as the offspeed hitters.  I kind of expected our pitchers to be better "well hit" fastball pitchers because staff a little more experienced and locates better on the whole.

by pieful35 on Oct 10, 2006 12:07 AM PDT reply actions  

D'Angelo Jimenez Bats .325
D'Angelo Jimenez bats .325 lifetime vs. the Tigers. Something to watch for...

by Dann on Oct 10, 2006 12:14 AM PDT reply actions  

LET'S GO OAK LAND
I haven't posted here since last year, but I've become a diehard AN lurker and am very excited and love love love blez's and nico's and baseballgirl's posts.

--Jason (MIT student)

ATHLETICS + I = THEISTICAL

by jasonkb on Oct 10, 2006 12:47 AM PDT reply actions  

WAKE UP!!!!!
LETS GO OAK-LAND!!!!!!!!!!!
Miller-You forgot about Scutaro! Morgan- So did Santana...

by tresselfan on Oct 10, 2006 5:02 AM PDT reply actions  

vL lineup
Is it going to be Kotsay in CF against the lefties, or will Macha be smart enough to play Kielty?

by rageon on Oct 10, 2006 7:22 AM PDT reply actions  

Thank You, AN
I've poked around here for years, but have only really started to participate now that I've moved away from college. I'm originally from Berkeley, but I went to school in Boston, where I had a whole community of A's friends (the A's/Sox series of 2003 was nuts). But here in Pittsburgh I cheer all by myself.

Thank you, members of AN, for being my A's community at this most glorious of times.

LET'S GO OAK-LAND!! DUN, DUN, DUNDUNDUN!

by mhoffman on Oct 10, 2006 8:00 AM PDT reply actions  

Go A's!!
Let's turn this motha out!!
"Mom, I know you don't like baseball but I want to take you to a Giants game and see a real penant contender..." - 2006 Giants Radio Commerical

by What Would Rickey Do on Oct 10, 2006 8:06 AM PDT reply actions  

LET'S GO OAKLAND
I'm ready for this series to start now!!!!!!!!  Let's GO A's!!!!!

by okathlfn on Oct 10, 2006 9:08 AM PDT reply actions  

Today is the day.
1st pitch in the ALCS is 8 hours away.  I have to work so I won't be able to catch much of the 1st two games.  I will have the radio on, so I can't really see much work getting done.  By the way, would anyone have thought that Joe Torre stood a better chance of being fired at the end of the season rather than our own Kenny Macha?  There's a poll in there somewhere.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Oct 10, 2006 9:20 AM PDT reply actions  

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