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DLD 10/18/07: AfterMach + Diego 3.4

Pug_tiny by Apricot on

Well, we thought we'd have a little breathing room before facing the whole Zito-leaving drama and whatever big moves Billy's got planned. But nooooo, he had to fire Macha. May you live in interesting offseasons.

Star-divide

In case you missed it, Slusser gets a raft of players kicking Macha on the way out the door.  I am personally torn, because I DO want to know what the players are thinking and what the mood of the clubhouse is. But on the other hand, it would be classier to just let Macha go and speak no ill of the fired.

DISCONNECTED / Gorilla off his back: 'It's OK'
In terms of wins and losses, Ken Macha knows the A's were successful on his watch as manager, especially for a team with a relatively moderate payroll that relies more on its farm system than free agency. "Eighty-eight games over .500," Macha said in a...

Knapp says the next manager needs Tough Love.

Dave Newhouse boosts Dusty for the manager job.  Then FireJoeMorgan promptly rips Newhouse.

-----

Diego runs through the rest of the week, updating the Dialogues of Plato for the Moneyball generation.

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I'm hungry.
Who has nachos?

by mikeA on Oct 18, 2006 1:17 AM PDT   0 recs

Mmm...
Nachos...
"I thought about maybe tackling Ordonez as he went around the bases..." -Huston Street

by suprjo on Oct 18, 2006 1:24 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

with piping hot pepper jack cheese
Ohhh... what a food item to think about around breakfast time.  Jalapenos?
"A's Brand Baseball: The worst best baseball you've ever seen!" -Chavvy

by ohtobe21likehuston on Oct 18, 2006 5:41 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No! It must be poutine!
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

<flings poutine>
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 1:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Look!

A Pooh-pre-teen!
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh man
That looks both disgusting and delicious at the same time.
Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 18, 2006 6:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm viewing with text only
From your comment, I can only assume it's a picture of Anna Benson.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 19, 2006 10:17 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

is he eating a carrot in the first panel?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 2:26 AM PDT   0 recs

I think it's an icicle,
and Diego is using his powers of telekinesis to poke the icicle into his antagonist's throat. Or something.
"He's the heart and soul of the green and gold."

by whiteshoes40 on Oct 18, 2006 4:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Except that guy doesn't really have a neck.
So I guess the icicle is just poking his hairy chin instead.
"He's the heart and soul of the green and gold."

by whiteshoes40 on Oct 18, 2006 4:28 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

wow
I'm almost sorry to fix the panel after these comments...

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 8:17 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Great.
You fixed it. Now I just sound silly.
"He's the heart and soul of the green and gold."

by whiteshoes40 on Oct 18, 2006 9:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Cracks me up
to think Chavvy will probably read this at some point.  Hilarious.

I'm glad you said something about the players throwing Macha under the bus.  Totally classless after the team had their best season in 16 years.

"A's Brand Baseball: The worst best baseball you've ever seen!" -Chavvy

by ohtobe21likehuston on Oct 18, 2006 5:42 AM PDT   0 recs

More funny from The Dugout...
Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Click convo for link.

"One thing about ground balls. They don't go out of the ball park." - Tim McCarver

Off The Record

by JLaff on Oct 18, 2006 7:05 AM PDT   0 recs

heh heh
The article is okay, but the movie at the end is AWESOME. If he'd used iMovie, he could have had a full-on Ken Burns effect for the first part.

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 8:23 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That movie was fabulous.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Oct 18, 2006 8:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, did you see the links in the text?
I liked the one of Veteran's Stadium, with 408 to center field and infinity to left and right.

by hunter on Oct 18, 2006 8:39 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Also the last time Mark Prior
has been seen healthy.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 8:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Idiocy from a moneyball reactionary
regarding Beane and Macha.
the guess here is that Macha, with another managerial job, will earn a World Series chance before Beane ever does
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 18, 2006 7:45 AM PDT   0 recs

<dies laughing>
Has someone sent this shit to FJM yet?  If not, let me know, and I'll do it.  I think this gem is my favorite:
During the regular season, when the A's were in Toronto, catcher Jason Kendall was suspended, so Beane elevated one of his Moneyball legends, overhyped draft choice, roly-poly catcher Jeremy Brown. Macha laughed in the face of a question about how much playing time Brown would get. "None."

How DARE he call up his AAA catcher?  HOW DARE HE?  I'm sure if the reporter asked Beane how much playing time Brown should have gotten, Billy would have said, "Oh, he should start the next four games."  Because playing time always was, and always will be, the responsibility of the Oakland manager.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 8:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Christ, what an asshole.
That guy produces like 6 strawmen straight from his pockets. Macha was not fired because the A's lost to the Tigers. The disconnect that Beane referred to is not between Beane and Macha. Macha not playing Jeremy Brown doesn't have anything to do with anything. The reporter asking about being out Moneyballed and getting told to jump in a lake isn't indicative of what Macha things about on field strategy.

Other errors and stupidity: Moneyball isn't Billy Beane's book. It is about the way he builds teams, but it's not his book.

I'm not getting tired of the name or the concept of Moneyball. So as long as you don't include me in your little "we" group, that's fine. (Nice going using the term "we" everywhere, as if you have some quorum that justifies it.)

Moneyball is not about on field strategy. It is about economics.

It doesn't matter if the author thinks that Moneyball is old and not edgy. Sending a 75 year old man in a beat up pickup truck 1500 miles per week around Texas to find boys with good baseball faces is old and not edgy, but everyone seems to do that crap. So how is that relevant?

Jimenez isn't the worst starting 2nd baseman in a playoff game this decade. He wasn't even the worst starting 2nd baseman in this post season series. That belongs to Neifi Perez.

by hunter on Oct 18, 2006 8:56 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Slusser on ESPN Cold Pizza
Quickie recap:
  • Tigers will stick with ALCS rotation, but the Gambler may start game 1. If Cards advance, Bonderman starts game 2. (Yawn.)
  • Zumaya and Casey ready for ALCS. (Why do they have a writer from the SF Chron talking about the ALCS?)
  • A's now looking for a new manager. Geren, Wash the main inside candidates. (Duh.) Wash's interview w/Texas went well. Other outside possibilities: Bowa, Jamie Quirk, Bud Black. Black might also go to Padres.
"One thing about ground balls. They don't go out of the ball park." - Tim McCarver

Off The Record

by JLaff on Oct 18, 2006 7:51 AM PDT   0 recs

And by ALCS
I mean World Series
"One thing about ground balls. They don't go out of the ball park." - Tim McCarver

Off The Record

by JLaff on Oct 18, 2006 8:05 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

pleasantly surprised
to see Bud Black getting serious attention according to the news. He's doing a good job with the Angels rotation and if he could fit our program, that would ding them at the same time...

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 8:19 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Rare is the pitching coach
who makes a successful conversion to manager.  Say no to Bud.

by sslinger on Oct 18, 2006 9:19 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

So, Slusser gets a raft...
but Nico doesn't get a pony?

There's no justice in this world.

"...sometimes I can't tell the difference between baseball and magic."- salb918 "Ellie plowed into him like an evil, pink unicorn."-ArakSOT

by McFood on Oct 18, 2006 8:01 AM PDT   0 recs

T-Rex is so unclutch.
Adn stegosaurus has no heart.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 8:19 AM PDT   0 recs

Bang a gong?
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 8:24 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

<sails over head>
Que?
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 8:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You're dirty and sweet, oh yeah
Not to mention the hubcap diamond star halo.

Somehow you missed this cultural touchstone.

Eternal Springs™: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 8:39 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Indeed I did.
But hey, I like Phish, so the lyrics don't seem so strange and weird to me.  Especially when the lyrics to one of your favorite songs is:

Boy
Man
God
Shit

Wash uffitzi, drive me to Firenze.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 8:43 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

why are you comparing t-rex
to that hippie crap
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 9:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The non-sensical lyrics.
It certainly isn't the guitar prowess.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 9:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

20th century boy
the 21st century boys just wanted it more.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 9:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

But what about the
21st Centurt Digital Boys?

21st century digital boys
Never played baseball
And alway want Hee Choi

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 9:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i think they died
from their own arrogance
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 10:00 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

and Stegosaurus not Mexican enough
Our T-Rex, though, was plenty Mexican.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 10:02 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL
what ever happend to alligator arms?
"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez

by pickinmachine on Oct 18, 2006 10:11 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

But how did it taste on a tortilla?
Eternal Springs™: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 11:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Tell that to Carl Everett
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Oct 18, 2006 10:47 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Lowell Cohn defends Macha
I was surprised to find that I agree with a lot of this. I guess I'm just a big waffler. I don't think I know what I think. Anyway, here it is:

"I just stood up and said, 'I appreciate the opportunity. I put my heart and soul into everything I did.'" Macha said. "I shook everyone's hand and said, 'Good luck,' and walked out."

In other words, Macha ended this sad little drama with dignity, a lot more than you can say of the crybaby A's, who should be sent to their rooms. Since Billy fired Macha, the players have been piling on, saying they didn't get along with Macha. He was difficult to talk to. He didn't always explain things. Billy said there was a "disconnect."
These babies are professional athletes, for heaven's sake. They get paid millions of dollars to play a children's game, and they succeeded. For that, they don't badmouth the manager or go behind his back. For that, they shut up and play.

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061018/NEWS/610180351/1010/SPORT01

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 18, 2006 8:27 AM PDT   0 recs

Eh, text box faux pas
The Macha quote should be in there, too.
Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 18, 2006 8:28 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

sympathetic but
paragraphs like the following completely undercut Cohn's credibility with me:
Anyway, Ken Macha is a good guy. He is a fine gentleman. He got along with poor troubled Milton Bradley. You might even say he saved Bradley's career. Was that such a terrible thing? He brought Frank Thomas along, probably saved his career, as well. Is that a firing offense?

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 8:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

agreed
Milton and Frank saved their careers, if anyone

by ArakSOT on Oct 18, 2006 8:35 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess that makes up
for "ruining" Antonio Perez and Keith Ginter's careers.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 8:38 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

And Chuck Thomas... and Bobby Kielty...
...and Jeremy Brown... and Adam Melhuse...
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The same could have been said for Milton Bradley.
Only, Milton got a second chance.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

A different take
While I also find the torrent of complaints a bit gauche, consier this:  many of the A's presumably felt this way all year long, and likely longer, yet we heard nary a word during the season.  To keep so much negativity "in the clubhouse," as they say, is in fact the professional way to have handled it.

The kicking the guy while he's down, perahps not so much, but that's of less consequence than having put success in the 2006 season first.

Eternal Springs™: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 8:42 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i agree
we saw all those macha quotes throughout the 2006 season (nonentity, etc.) but didn't figure out there was a problem between him and the players because the players behaved professionally all year.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 9:33 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

something that always bothers me
Baseball is not "a children's game". It was invented by a man/group of men, for men to play. And there has never been a probessional children's baseball league. And, when the National League formed (what, 1877?), Carl E. Stotz, who founded Little League Baseball in 1939 wasn't born for another 33 years.

Not to say that kids hadn't played baseball at the time, but it was invented for men's recreation, and has been played by adults for it's entire history.

by hunter on Oct 18, 2006 9:10 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

<stops dead in tracks>
That's a really, really good point. I, for one, had never thought about it that way before. Excellent argument for eliminating that silly trope.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 10:08 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Good points
On the other hand, it evolved from children's games (e.g., rounders, one o' cat) and, IIRC, cricketers in the 19th century disparaged baseball as a "children's game" (I'll have to look a bit for that reference).

So if it's a mischaracterization, it's one that has at least some historical basis (given the relationship between baseball and genuine kids' games), and is also one that has been around pretty much since the game's inception.  And isn't tradition a part of baseball?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Oct 18, 2006 2:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

okay
but the original point I believe is that in the US, baseball has always been considered an adult pastime, like drag racing and conkers.

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 2:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What utter horse doody.
If the players started bitching in mid June (like, say, the Toronto Blue Jays), then you could call them crybabies.

The players said not. One. Word.

They did their jobs, they kept their complaints to themselves, and when the season was done (a season in which they, not Macha, made the ALCS) and the button was pressed to let Macha go, the players did the courteous thing (from the fans' perspective anyhow) and explained why it was necessary.

Macha can dry his eyes on the $2m he gets paid to leave - which incidentally is the same number of reasons there was to let him go.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

oh, no, they didn't
You make it seem as if the players were merely bystanders and that it was entirely a Beane-Macha issue.

It's pretty clear to me from the various articles that many players were actuvely talking among themselves about their displeasure with Macha over the course of the season, that perhaps certain players even actively proselytized against Macha in the clubhouse during the season, that perhaps certain players approached Beane over the course of the season, and that players were definitely talking to the media at or near the end of the season prior to "the button being pressed" to eject Macha.

I'm not saying that any of those actions, or the ultimate outcome, were necessarily wrong; and I'm certainly not in the camp that thinks all this crap should have been aired publicly during the season.

But describing the actions of the players as "courteous" is ... well, quite frankly, bizarre.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 1:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Probabilities the Mets vs. Cards series
whowins.com has broken down 7 game playoff series' by series standings after each game, by venue, and by sport, in the context of the Mets vs. Cardinals NLCS. Apparently, the Cards only have a 41% chance of winning game 6, but have a 68% chance to win the series.

by hunter on Oct 18, 2006 8:34 AM PDT   0 recs

in other words
ignore this site?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 9:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hell, using historical statistics to predict
the outcome of one game, or in this case, two games, is complete folly. So don't hold me to my word that St. Louis is going to win this series. But I think they will, only needing to win one out of three.

Y'know, you can just see it in their eyes. They want it more.

<looks around conspicuously />
<snickers to self />

by hunter on Oct 18, 2006 10:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I have to say,
the only thing today's Diego Chavez comic succeded in was making me Bored

by Zonis on Oct 18, 2006 9:08 AM PDT   0 recs

and as I explained yesterday
you will have time to Rampage and Waver before it Disappears.

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 9:10 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Is this a dancing anime?
Also: Haruhi F. > Haruhi S.
When the lights...go down...in the city...

by senork on Oct 18, 2006 11:36 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Since everything on the site is for your enjoyment
and only your enjoyment, it shall be bAnNed from now on, to be replaced by The Adventures of Zonis.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

MLB labor agreement talks progressing well
According to ESPN.  The issues remaining to be worked out are as follows:
The chief issues in the talks appear to be revenue-sharing, the luxury tax and the union's concern that teams spend revenue-sharing money to improve themselves.

I'd like to see the luxury tax and/or revenue sharing strengthened, and would also like to see a "salary floor" for certain teams.  But there's no mention of my greatest concern--whether or not compensatory draft picks for free agents will continue.  Their elimination would be a big blow to the green and gold.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 9:20 AM PDT   0 recs

The union already has a salary floor.
As long as there is a minimum wage there is a de facto salary floor.  It wouldn't be fair for the union to insist that each employee make a minimum salary but that 25 employees taken together be paid - on average - greater than the minimum salary.

What I would like to see toward those ends is a guarantee that any team receiving revenue sharing money must put that money toward player salaries not only at the major league level but minor league level as well (including the draft and international signings).  The union of course would never go for that because they don't represent minor leaguers.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 9:28 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

They already do that.
But the teams simply reduce their own salary expenditure accordingly, so overall salaries don't move up.

What they need to do is decide upon a minimum percentage of revenue that must be used on salary, and fine clubs that don't hit that point, just like they do with teams that spend too much.

Either that, or start promoting successful AAA teams whenever a major league team stays on the bottom of their division for three seasons straight.

Now THAT would see some teams spending some money, I'd wager.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

And when a team with a new stadium
that was built by taxpayers gets relegated?
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 19, 2006 5:44 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

OT dumb question
They are eliminating compensation picks for MLB teams that lose players to free agency.  Does this go into effect, THIS offseason?  

Meaning nothing for Zito.

"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez

by pickinmachine on Oct 18, 2006 9:48 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Possably
It depends when the new agreement takes effect.

Don't forget though, the reason the MLB is doin