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Around SBN: The cost of firing vs. the cost of retaining head coaches

DLD 10/18/07: AfterMach + Diego 3.4

Well, we thought we'd have a little breathing room before facing the whole Zito-leaving drama and whatever big moves Billy's got planned. But nooooo, he had to fire Macha. May you live in interesting offseasons.

Star-divide

In case you missed it, Slusser gets a raft of players kicking Macha on the way out the door.  I am personally torn, because I DO want to know what the players are thinking and what the mood of the clubhouse is. But on the other hand, it would be classier to just let Macha go and speak no ill of the fired.

DISCONNECTED / Gorilla off his back: 'It's OK'
In terms of wins and losses, Ken Macha knows the A's were successful on his watch as manager, especially for a team with a relatively moderate payroll that relies more on its farm system than free agency. "Eighty-eight games over .500," Macha said in a...

Knapp says the next manager needs Tough Love.

Dave Newhouse boosts Dusty for the manager job.  Then FireJoeMorgan promptly rips Newhouse.

-----

Diego runs through the rest of the week, updating the Dialogues of Plato for the Moneyball generation.

0 recs  |  Comment 183 comments

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I'm hungry.
Who has nachos?

by mikeA on Oct 18, 2006 1:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Mmm...
Nachos...
"I thought about maybe tackling Ordonez as he went around the bases..." -Huston Street

by suprjo on Oct 18, 2006 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

with piping hot pepper jack cheese
Ohhh... what a food item to think about around breakfast time.  Jalapenos?
"A's Brand Baseball: The worst best baseball you've ever seen!" -Chavvy

by ohtobe21likehuston on Oct 18, 2006 5:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No! It must be poutine!
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<flings poutine>
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look!

A Pooh-pre-teen!
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh man
That looks both disgusting and delicious at the same time.
Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 18, 2006 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm viewing with text only
From your comment, I can only assume it's a picture of Anna Benson.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 19, 2006 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

is he eating a carrot in the first panel?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 2:26 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it's an icicle,
and Diego is using his powers of telekinesis to poke the icicle into his antagonist's throat. Or something.
"He's the heart and soul of the green and gold."

by whiteshoes40 on Oct 18, 2006 4:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except that guy doesn't really have a neck.
So I guess the icicle is just poking his hairy chin instead.
"He's the heart and soul of the green and gold."

by whiteshoes40 on Oct 18, 2006 4:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow
I'm almost sorry to fix the panel after these comments...

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great.
You fixed it. Now I just sound silly.
"He's the heart and soul of the green and gold."

by whiteshoes40 on Oct 18, 2006 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cracks me up
to think Chavvy will probably read this at some point.  Hilarious.

I'm glad you said something about the players throwing Macha under the bus.  Totally classless after the team had their best season in 16 years.

"A's Brand Baseball: The worst best baseball you've ever seen!" -Chavvy

by ohtobe21likehuston on Oct 18, 2006 5:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

More funny from The Dugout...
Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Click convo for link.

"One thing about ground balls. They don't go out of the ball park." - Tim McCarver

Off The Record

by JLaff on Oct 18, 2006 7:05 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

heh heh
The article is okay, but the movie at the end is AWESOME. If he'd used iMovie, he could have had a full-on Ken Burns effect for the first part.

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That movie was fabulous.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Oct 18, 2006 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, did you see the links in the text?
I liked the one of Veteran's Stadium, with 408 to center field and infinity to left and right.

by hunter on Oct 18, 2006 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also the last time Mark Prior
has been seen healthy.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Idiocy from a moneyball reactionary
regarding Beane and Macha.
the guess here is that Macha, with another managerial job, will earn a World Series chance before Beane ever does
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 18, 2006 7:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

<dies laughing>
Has someone sent this shit to FJM yet?  If not, let me know, and I'll do it.  I think this gem is my favorite:
During the regular season, when the A's were in Toronto, catcher Jason Kendall was suspended, so Beane elevated one of his Moneyball legends, overhyped draft choice, roly-poly catcher Jeremy Brown. Macha laughed in the face of a question about how much playing time Brown would get. "None."

How DARE he call up his AAA catcher?  HOW DARE HE?  I'm sure if the reporter asked Beane how much playing time Brown should have gotten, Billy would have said, "Oh, he should start the next four games."  Because playing time always was, and always will be, the responsibility of the Oakland manager.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Christ, what an asshole.
That guy produces like 6 strawmen straight from his pockets. Macha was not fired because the A's lost to the Tigers. The disconnect that Beane referred to is not between Beane and Macha. Macha not playing Jeremy Brown doesn't have anything to do with anything. The reporter asking about being out Moneyballed and getting told to jump in a lake isn't indicative of what Macha things about on field strategy.

Other errors and stupidity: Moneyball isn't Billy Beane's book. It is about the way he builds teams, but it's not his book.

I'm not getting tired of the name or the concept of Moneyball. So as long as you don't include me in your little "we" group, that's fine. (Nice going using the term "we" everywhere, as if you have some quorum that justifies it.)

Moneyball is not about on field strategy. It is about economics.

It doesn't matter if the author thinks that Moneyball is old and not edgy. Sending a 75 year old man in a beat up pickup truck 1500 miles per week around Texas to find boys with good baseball faces is old and not edgy, but everyone seems to do that crap. So how is that relevant?

Jimenez isn't the worst starting 2nd baseman in a playoff game this decade. He wasn't even the worst starting 2nd baseman in this post season series. That belongs to Neifi Perez.

by hunter on Oct 18, 2006 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Slusser on ESPN Cold Pizza
Quickie recap:
  • Tigers will stick with ALCS rotation, but the Gambler may start game 1. If Cards advance, Bonderman starts game 2. (Yawn.)
  • Zumaya and Casey ready for ALCS. (Why do they have a writer from the SF Chron talking about the ALCS?)
  • A's now looking for a new manager. Geren, Wash the main inside candidates. (Duh.) Wash's interview w/Texas went well. Other outside possibilities: Bowa, Jamie Quirk, Bud Black. Black might also go to Padres.
"One thing about ground balls. They don't go out of the ball park." - Tim McCarver

Off The Record

by JLaff on Oct 18, 2006 7:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

And by ALCS
I mean World Series
"One thing about ground balls. They don't go out of the ball park." - Tim McCarver

Off The Record

by JLaff on Oct 18, 2006 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

pleasantly surprised
to see Bud Black getting serious attention according to the news. He's doing a good job with the Angels rotation and if he could fit our program, that would ding them at the same time...

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rare is the pitching coach
who makes a successful conversion to manager.  Say no to Bud.

by sslinger on Oct 18, 2006 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, Slusser gets a raft...
but Nico doesn't get a pony?

There's no justice in this world.

"...sometimes I can't tell the difference between baseball and magic."- salb918 "Ellie plowed into him like an evil, pink unicorn."-ArakSOT

by McFood on Oct 18, 2006 8:01 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

T-Rex is so unclutch.
Adn stegosaurus has no heart.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 8:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Bang a gong?
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<sails over head>
Que?
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're dirty and sweet, oh yeah
Not to mention the hubcap diamond star halo.

Somehow you missed this cultural touchstone.

Eternal Springsâ„¢: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed I did.
But hey, I like Phish, so the lyrics don't seem so strange and weird to me.  Especially when the lyrics to one of your favorite songs is:

Boy
Man
God
Shit

Wash uffitzi, drive me to Firenze.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

why are you comparing t-rex
to that hippie crap
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The non-sensical lyrics.
It certainly isn't the guitar prowess.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

20th century boy
the 21st century boys just wanted it more.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But what about the
21st Centurt Digital Boys?

21st century digital boys
Never played baseball
And alway want Hee Choi

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think they died
from their own arrogance
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and Stegosaurus not Mexican enough
Our T-Rex, though, was plenty Mexican.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
what ever happend to alligator arms?
"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez

by pickinmachine on Oct 18, 2006 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But how did it taste on a tortilla?
Eternal Springsâ„¢: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tell that to Carl Everett
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Oct 18, 2006 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lowell Cohn defends Macha
I was surprised to find that I agree with a lot of this. I guess I'm just a big waffler. I don't think I know what I think. Anyway, here it is:

"I just stood up and said, 'I appreciate the opportunity. I put my heart and soul into everything I did.'" Macha said. "I shook everyone's hand and said, 'Good luck,' and walked out."

In other words, Macha ended this sad little drama with dignity, a lot more than you can say of the crybaby A's, who should be sent to their rooms. Since Billy fired Macha, the players have been piling on, saying they didn't get along with Macha. He was difficult to talk to. He didn't always explain things. Billy said there was a "disconnect."
These babies are professional athletes, for heaven's sake. They get paid millions of dollars to play a children's game, and they succeeded. For that, they don't badmouth the manager or go behind his back. For that, they shut up and play.

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061018/NEWS/610180351/1010/SPORT01

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 18, 2006 8:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Eh, text box faux pas
The Macha quote should be in there, too.
Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 18, 2006 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

sympathetic but
paragraphs like the following completely undercut Cohn's credibility with me:
Anyway, Ken Macha is a good guy. He is a fine gentleman. He got along with poor troubled Milton Bradley. You might even say he saved Bradley's career. Was that such a terrible thing? He brought Frank Thomas along, probably saved his career, as well. Is that a firing offense?

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed
Milton and Frank saved their careers, if anyone

by ArakSOT on Oct 18, 2006 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess that makes up
for "ruining" Antonio Perez and Keith Ginter's careers.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Chuck Thomas... and Bobby Kielty...
...and Jeremy Brown... and Adam Melhuse...
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The same could have been said for Milton Bradley.
Only, Milton got a second chance.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A different take
While I also find the torrent of complaints a bit gauche, consier this:  many of the A's presumably felt this way all year long, and likely longer, yet we heard nary a word during the season.  To keep so much negativity "in the clubhouse," as they say, is in fact the professional way to have handled it.

The kicking the guy while he's down, perahps not so much, but that's of less consequence than having put success in the 2006 season first.

Eternal Springsâ„¢: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree
we saw all those macha quotes throughout the 2006 season (nonentity, etc.) but didn't figure out there was a problem between him and the players because the players behaved professionally all year.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

something that always bothers me
Baseball is not "a children's game". It was invented by a man/group of men, for men to play. And there has never been a probessional children's baseball league. And, when the National League formed (what, 1877?), Carl E. Stotz, who founded Little League Baseball in 1939 wasn't born for another 33 years.

Not to say that kids hadn't played baseball at the time, but it was invented for men's recreation, and has been played by adults for it's entire history.

by hunter on Oct 18, 2006 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<stops dead in tracks>
That's a really, really good point. I, for one, had never thought about it that way before. Excellent argument for eliminating that silly trope.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good points
On the other hand, it evolved from children's games (e.g., rounders, one o' cat) and, IIRC, cricketers in the 19th century disparaged baseball as a "children's game" (I'll have to look a bit for that reference).

So if it's a mischaracterization, it's one that has at least some historical basis (given the relationship between baseball and genuine kids' games), and is also one that has been around pretty much since the game's inception.  And isn't tradition a part of baseball?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Oct 18, 2006 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

okay
but the original point I believe is that in the US, baseball has always been considered an adult pastime, like drag racing and conkers.

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What utter horse doody.
If the players started bitching in mid June (like, say, the Toronto Blue Jays), then you could call them crybabies.

The players said not. One. Word.

They did their jobs, they kept their complaints to themselves, and when the season was done (a season in which they, not Macha, made the ALCS) and the button was pressed to let Macha go, the players did the courteous thing (from the fans' perspective anyhow) and explained why it was necessary.

Macha can dry his eyes on the $2m he gets paid to leave - which incidentally is the same number of reasons there was to let him go.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh, no, they didn't
You make it seem as if the players were merely bystanders and that it was entirely a Beane-Macha issue.

It's pretty clear to me from the various articles that many players were actuvely talking among themselves about their displeasure with Macha over the course of the season, that perhaps certain players even actively proselytized against Macha in the clubhouse during the season, that perhaps certain players approached Beane over the course of the season, and that players were definitely talking to the media at or near the end of the season prior to "the button being pressed" to eject Macha.

I'm not saying that any of those actions, or the ultimate outcome, were necessarily wrong; and I'm certainly not in the camp that thinks all this crap should have been aired publicly during the season.

But describing the actions of the players as "courteous" is ... well, quite frankly, bizarre.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probabilities the Mets vs. Cards series
whowins.com has broken down 7 game playoff series' by series standings after each game, by venue, and by sport, in the context of the Mets vs. Cardinals NLCS. Apparently, the Cards only have a 41% chance of winning game 6, but have a 68% chance to win the series.

by hunter on Oct 18, 2006 8:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

in other words
ignore this site?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hell, using historical statistics to predict
the outcome of one game, or in this case, two games, is complete folly. So don't hold me to my word that St. Louis is going to win this series. But I think they will, only needing to win one out of three.

Y'know, you can just see it in their eyes. They want it more.

<looks around conspicuously />
<snickers to self />

by hunter on Oct 18, 2006 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to say,
the only thing today's Diego Chavez comic succeded in was making me Bored

by Zonis on Oct 18, 2006 9:08 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

and as I explained yesterday
you will have time to Rampage and Waver before it Disappears.

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is this a dancing anime?
Also: Haruhi F. > Haruhi S.
When the lights...go down...in the city...

by senork on Oct 18, 2006 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since everything on the site is for your enjoyment
and only your enjoyment, it shall be bAnNed from now on, to be replaced by The Adventures of Zonis.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

MLB labor agreement talks progressing well
According to ESPN.  The issues remaining to be worked out are as follows:
The chief issues in the talks appear to be revenue-sharing, the luxury tax and the union's concern that teams spend revenue-sharing money to improve themselves.

I'd like to see the luxury tax and/or revenue sharing strengthened, and would also like to see a "salary floor" for certain teams.  But there's no mention of my greatest concern--whether or not compensatory draft picks for free agents will continue.  Their elimination would be a big blow to the green and gold.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 9:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The union already has a salary floor.
As long as there is a minimum wage there is a de facto salary floor.  It wouldn't be fair for the union to insist that each employee make a minimum salary but that 25 employees taken together be paid - on average - greater than the minimum salary.

What I would like to see toward those ends is a guarantee that any team receiving revenue sharing money must put that money toward player salaries not only at the major league level but minor league level as well (including the draft and international signings).  The union of course would never go for that because they don't represent minor leaguers.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They already do that.
But the teams simply reduce their own salary expenditure accordingly, so overall salaries don't move up.

What they need to do is decide upon a minimum percentage of revenue that must be used on salary, and fine clubs that don't hit that point, just like they do with teams that spend too much.

Either that, or start promoting successful AAA teams whenever a major league team stays on the bottom of their division for three seasons straight.

Now THAT would see some teams spending some money, I'd wager.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And when a team with a new stadium
that was built by taxpayers gets relegated?
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 19, 2006 5:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OT dumb question
They are eliminating compensation picks for MLB teams that lose players to free agency.  Does this go into effect, THIS offseason?  

Meaning nothing for Zito.

"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez

by pickinmachine on Oct 18, 2006 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Possably
It depends when the new agreement takes effect.

Don't forget though, the reason the MLB is doing this is as long as the draft picks were tied to free agents the players union had control over the picks.  Now that they've gotten rid of the draft pick compansation the MLB can start doing things like allowing teams to trade draft picks, or having a standardized singing bonus to keep those first round draft picks from costing $4M a piece.  I'd personaly like to see draft picks tied to a salary cap where you loose a draft pick for every $25M over $100M you are.

Also, there WILL still be some sort of compansation, there is no way any team but the Yankees, Mets and BoSox would have agreed to ending draft pick compansation without an alternative.

by Threepwood XX on Oct 18, 2006 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Compensation will be..
..moving the FA's new team picks to the team that lost the FA, I'll bet.

Isn't that how it works in hockey?

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To an extent.
The compensation picks, however, add to what the smaller team gets right now, and I think rather than doing that, they'll just monetize the existing picks.

So rather than us getting the Yankees' 1st rounder and one comp, we'll get an amount of picks considered 'equal' to the FAs new contract. For example, if he gets paid $10m a year, then we get their 1st and 3rd pick, whereas if he gets $6m a year, we get 2nd and 3rd.

At the lower end, Jay Payton signing with someone for $2m a year might get us a 5th rounder or so.

Feh, the more I think about this, the more my head hurts.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks for the info
"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez

by pickinmachine on Oct 18, 2006 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lyons gets a new job before macha does
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2629160&campaign=rss&source=MLBHead lines
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 9:40 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

or
keeps his other job, i guess...
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

is there a ralph's around here?
Dying for a title? Company making team-pride urns, caskets
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/10/18/sports/NA_SPT_BBL_MLB_to_the_Grave.php
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 9:46 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

sweet!
My favorite part (also found on sfgate.com) is this tidbit:

Each urn will be stamped with a message saying Major League Baseball officially recognizes the deceased as a lifelong fan of that team.

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Oct 18, 2006 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yesterday, mike tyson said he would fight
female boxers, today...

Mills claims McCartney abused her
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15318251/

(i think both are b.s.)

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 9:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What, she's leaving home?
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would pay to see
Mike Tyson fight Tonya Harding.
"...I say let's get the boys together again and take another shot."

by Jennifer on Oct 18, 2006 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd prefer
to see them playing dodgeball with Busch Light cans.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd prefer to see them play chicken..
..with Busch 500 NASCARs.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They could follow it up with an appearance
on Skating with Celebrities.

I'd pay to see Tyson attempt a toe loop.

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 18, 2006 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tyson: "I just want everyone to know
that that triple sal cow was majestic and dialectic, you know what I'm sayin'?"

by hunter on Oct 18, 2006 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mike Tyson
is Andy Koffman?

by Zonis on Oct 18, 2006 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Minus the intentional humor.
When the lights...go down...in the city...

by senork on Oct 18, 2006 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know, Tyson is a very funny guy
Rememebr that joke, the one about putting his fist through your head?

by Zonis on Oct 18, 2006 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man
the server is crankier than grover today

by ArakSOT on Oct 18, 2006 1:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

are Kotsay and Melhuse complaining about it?
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Possibly.
Since it's now fixed.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmmmm
Has anyone ever seen grover and the server at the same time?

by mikeA on Oct 18, 2006 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I haven't even seen the server!
What the f--- do I have to do get my order taken in this dive?
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You want a server?
I'll give you a server.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our office network is cranky today, too.
I thought it was my problem.

<hands servers Midol>

"...I say let's get the boys together again and take another shot."

by Jennifer on Oct 18, 2006 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I used to get Midol confused
with Nytol - talk about confiscating periods!
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<wakes up groggy with cramps>
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

who's groggy ...
... and is s/he a Lux Interior fan?
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I used to get Midol confused
... with Cindi's doll. And boy was she mad!
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who the fuck you calling cranky?
I'm a ray of fucking sunshine and don't you dare forget it.
Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 18, 2006 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dirty bomb threat against NFL this weekend
A web post threatens dirty bombs at seven stadiums, including Oakland.  For the untutored, dirty bombs are radiological material blown up with conventional explosives, creating high concentrations of bad radiation, localized to a small area.  (Apparently no one told the terrorists that the Coliseum will be mostly empty for the Oakland/Arizona tilt.)

The feds seem to feel this threat is  not credible, which is good to hear.  I've wondered on occasion what's to prevent a suicide bomber from leaping into a baseball dugout midgame.

Eternal Springsâ„¢: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 2:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You can sneak any weapon you want
into the Coliseum.  Or anything you want to bring in a truck.  Unless the procedures are a lot different for Raider games (and I don't recall them being so).
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never understood
why there are difference. At Kauffman, they just check your bag. Arrowhead, they pat you down.
"...I say let's get the boys together again and take another shot."

by Jennifer on Oct 18, 2006 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the bomb makes
the Coliseum dirty, would anybody know the difference.
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

terrorism = tired act
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was Zito your source on that?
Eternal Springsâ„¢: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no, a composite character ...
... I call "Deep Threat."

It's from vol 3 of my series "Beane at War."

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Subtitle: State of Denial
Wherein Billy admits he's being secretly advised by Pete Rose, who recommends the hiring of Larry Bowa to manufacture consent...um, I mean runs...and to show those ungrateful players who's boss.
Eternal Springsâ„¢: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hilarity
Vote for your 2006 All-Clutch Team!  Seriously!

(HT: FJM

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 3:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Somethings wrong.
I was unable to vote "Jeter" for all positions.  
"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 18, 2006 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The NL is SO un-clutch.
Just 11 of 33 "nominees" from the Senior Circuit.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Surely this is just a glitch
How other players are eligible for the Pepsi Jeter Performance awards are beyond me.
"One thing about ground balls. They don't go out of the ball park." - Tim McCarver

Off The Record

by JLaff on Oct 18, 2006 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I'd be pissed if
I were A-Rod.  Doesn't he do endorsements for Pepsi?  And they didn't even make him an option at third base?
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

More to the point...
Who would be on your un-clutch team?

Would A-Rod or popular AN whipping boy Eric Chavez be at the hot corner?

"One thing about ground balls. They don't go out of the ball park." - Tim McCarver

Off The Record

by JLaff on Oct 18, 2006 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm being subpoened (sp) to testify;
For the chair throwing incident. Odd.
"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint on Oct 18, 2006 3:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Frank Francisco one?
What do they think you could tell them from the LF bleachers?  Or did that happen before you took up residence there?
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh that's true...
...there's more than one ;)
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 18, 2006 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
I was just going "saint drafted Jeremy Bonderman?"
"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 18, 2006 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously?
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 18, 2006 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep...The Bueno One.
I was in the front row in 107 when it happened.

It was the ugliest thing I have ever seen at a baseball game.

http://www.sportsbarinfo.com/smf/index.php?topic=38.0

This is what I wrote afterward

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint on Oct 19, 2006 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

fuson v beane?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A very fascinating
Uni Watch that focuses on what Bill Buckner was wearing under the glove that took the 86 WS away from the Red Sox.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lukas/061018&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 3:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

ESPN repeatedly showing the ball
rolling under Buckner's legs -- "Last time there was a Game 6 at Shea."  Are they trying to will a big-market team into the World Series?

Nah.

"The A's are boring because all they do is win."

by Checkswing HR on Oct 18, 2006 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those Boston crazies.
Mass. elementary school bans tag because they don't want to be liable if a kid gets hurt.

That might be hard to control. "No, teacher, we're not playing tag, we're just practicing our sprinting, because that girl has cooties..."

"He's the heart and soul of the green and gold."

by whiteshoes40 on Oct 18, 2006 3:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If I were a sig changer,
I'd be tempted to use "Recess is "a time when accidents can happen."
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Recess is a crap shoot
My shit doesn't work at recess.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

au contraire!
When I "get rid of monkey bars," I know that my shit is in fact working.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't stop laughing at this
People (okay, cats) are beginning to stare...
"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 18, 2006 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

When did tag become a contact sport?
Another Willett parent, Celeste D'Elia, said her son feels safer because of the rule. "I've witnessed enough near collisions," she said.

I kinda sorta get the dodgeball bans, because that game always seemed like an exercise in recreating "Lord of the Flies" to me.  But tag?

Has it been that long since I was a kid?  "Kill the Carrier" (or its more offensively named cousin) and "Butts Up" were staples of my childhood.  We even played stickball with broomhandles...until some kid let go of the bat by mistake and broke a kid's nose.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's about what he sounded like.
Kid bled like a gory fire hydrant.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

(more offensively named cousin)
Funny -- I was just thinking about the awfulness of that game name the other day.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You must have played in
a badminton league growing up.
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

With Jason Kendall!
Eternal Springsâ„¢: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brutal
That schedule doesn't look very favorable from a quick glance...  Kotsay is going to be in traction on half of these trips.  Plus, we don't get to see Detroit until after the ASB, I want revenge!
"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 18, 2006 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lots of long trips w/no off days.
From BAL to Oakland (twice), from OAK to TOR, from HOU to OAK, from DET to OAK...yet five off-days DURING homestands.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yay!
An early AN invasion of Angel Stadium... anyone?
"One thing about ground balls. They don't go out of the ball park." - Tim McCarver

Off The Record

by JLaff on Oct 18, 2006 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The players love off days at home...
...it gives them a chance to actually unwind.

by Dr Pez on Oct 18, 2006 4:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

All My Children has nothing on the A's
http://mercextra.com/blogs/kawakami/2006/10/18/a-great-beane-macha-moment-i-just-remembered/#more-12 7

Another story about the Beane/Macha rift. This time it involves Billy taking over Macha's office.

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 18, 2006 4:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Macha walks in wearing nuthin' but his spankies...
and Billy was able to finish his meal? Billy is not human.
"...I say let's get the boys together again and take another shot."

by Jennifer on Oct 18, 2006 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Macha AND Young in their spankies?
With food?  Come on, they couldn't put their pants on before going into the kitchen?  You gotta have pants on in the kitchen!
"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 18, 2006 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no, just shoes and shirt
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<hums "Hot Cross Buns">
"...I say let's get the boys together again and take another shot."

by Jennifer on Oct 18, 2006 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's a great story
beane kinda seems like a dick here, but he always seems laid back and informal over the last few years, so maybe he just didn't think it was a big deal.  
bottom line is, any a's coach should be well aware by now of the importance of managers in the a's organizational philosophy.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<Paging Apricot>
(OR anyone else that can help)

I have installed the stuff I need to use KillFile.  (Even FireFox... even though I hate it).  So...now... how the heck do I use it???

by AsGirl on Oct 18, 2006 5:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

it should just magically work
(maybe restart)

Basically, all AN comments appear with a [kill][hide comment] next to it. You can kill all comments of a person from your sight, or just one at a time by clicking. It is easy to undo, so just try it...

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope...
Still don't see it.  :(

by AsGirl on Oct 18, 2006 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone?
HEEELLLLLPPPPP!!!  

I promise I won't Killfile whoever helps me!  :)

by AsGirl on Oct 18, 2006 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I'm the only one who hasn't killfiled you.
  ;)

but I can't help... sorry :(

"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 18, 2006 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL.
In that case, <KillFiles everone on AN except Poppy>

<obscene gesture>

by AsGirl on Oct 18, 2006 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you install the script itself?
First, you install the extension, but then you have to install the script.  If not, try installing it.
"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 18, 2006 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
FireFox extensions can be pretty fickle.  You might try uninstalling the extension, restarting FF, and installing it again.
"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 18, 2006 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll take dual credit :-).
I did the same thing.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

pffff
It's like comparing Ozzy Osbourne of the '70s to Osbourne today. No more edge.

Just like the A's, Ozzy doesn't know how to do the little things anymore. When was the last time you saw Ozzy lay down a sacrifice bunt and give himself up for the team? Not recently enough, if you ask me.

I want to see Milton Bradley stop breaking baseball bats, and start biting the heads off of fruit bats.

"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 18, 2006 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm looking for some input
I'm trying to come up with a simple way to present some hitting statistics, in a straightforward and visual manner. I'd like to have a system that, with a glance, can tell you what kind of hitter someone is.

Here's what I've come up with so far:

(Sorry about the large image size, it's unreadable any smaller...)

The blue bar represents batting average; the green bar on-base percentage; the red bar slugging, and the brown bar OPS.

The tick marks indicate the number of home runs hit.

The vertical black bars represent American League average numbers for AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS, in that order.

So, for instance, you can see that while Nick Swisher had a below average batting average, his OBP was higher than the league median, as were his slugging and OPS.

Thanks for any feedback you guys can give me, I'm sure it'll be helpful. Collectively, you're some of the sharpest folks I know.

--Nebraska--

ThePastime

by Ryan Armbrust on Oct 18, 2006 6:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice idea
I like the idea of presenting AVG/OBP/SLG in a single graphic. I'd suggest tweaking the implementation a bit, mostly by simplifying:

-Leave off the bar for OPS. It's redundant information, and leaves things looking too busy.

-Maybe leave off the ticks for HRs too, as they don't really fit in with the rest of the information. (On the other hand, they don't really get in the way either, so leaving them in is fine).

-For what's left consider stacking your red and green bars on top of each other and make the blue twice as wide like
BBBBBBBBBBGGGGG
BBBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRR
since AVG is a component of both OBP and SLG and the remaining parts are more or less independent. (I hope that makes sense)

Some are sabermetricians.

by andeux on Oct 18, 2006 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

those are good ideas
I agree about the OPS bar, it's unneccesary.

And I like the idea od doubling up the AVG bar, and having SLG and OBP stacked after it.

I think the HR ticks are important, because they help show how much of the SLG is based on doubles, and people always want to know HR numbers.

Thanks for the suggestions

--Nebraska--

ThePastime

by Ryan Armbrust on Oct 18, 2006 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very creative idea.
Keep us updated!
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

those are good suggestions
i'd leave the HR marks.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
That's exactly what I had in mind, and I think it looks good (if I do say so myself). It has the right balance of information vs. readability.

Have you looked at fangraphs.com? They've gone in a different direction with this sort of thing (mostly looking at the graph of a single stat vs. league average over time).

If you want to get really serious about this sort of thing, you might also want to look at some books by Edward Tufte.

Some are sabermetricians.

by andeux on Oct 18, 2006 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually
I'm a fan of Tufte's, and own a couple books of his.
--Nebraska--

ThePastime

by Ryan Armbrust on Oct 19, 2006 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

some thoughts
I love that you are thinking creatively. Visualizing data is hard and it can only be good to try out new things.

That said...

  1. I find the graphics somewhat confusing. The issue with stacked bars is that it is very hard to compare anything other than the first stack and the total stack. Also, you throw in comparing against the league average, but only in obvious cases will it be easy to compare as the OBP bar won't line up with the league average bar. In brief, I think that if you want to compare avg/obp/slg/ops across batters and against league average, it would be clearer just to have four little bars with either accompanying league average bars or some kind of tick.
  2. If the goal is to have a visual way to see what kind of hitting a batter does, one idea would be for each batter to have a stacked bar of all ABs.  
The important part of the thinking here is that averages conceal a lot, so if you are making a rich graph, then it's better to display the rawest data (e.g. HR, 2Bs, GB outs) and have the calculated data (e.g. AVG) emerge as a visual feature of the picture.

I'm going to sketch out two possibilities... these models are definitely not quite right, but I think there is the kernel of something good in them.  The prototypes suck, but were the best I could do on short notice.

The first possibility would account for the results of all at bats with slices left to right:

# of singles
# of 2B
3B
HR
BB & HBP
GB outs
FB outs
K outs

So at a glance you could see what their batting average was by coloring the first four in a sympathetic way. You could see the OBP by adding in the BB slice (colored in some clever way to attach to the hits).  You could cleverly mark the league average AVG and OBP somehow (perhaps a darkening of the outside of the bar, or maybe just big tick marks on the perimeter).

It could also be done as a pie chart.

A second graph (possibly a supplement and not a replacement for the first) would help visualize SLG, so it would just focus on the distribution of total bases, so there would be a slice for

all bases achieved on singles
bases from doubles
... triples
... homers

It would be normalized so a 1.000 SLG would have the same length as the first graph.

Here's are two quickie prototypes.

First, I used data for Swisher that is partly right (couldn't figure out the right number of GB/FB outs).  From left, you read singles, 2b, 3b (thin slice), hr, bb, hbp, Ks, GB outs, FB outs. The two lines show the league average AVG and OBP.  The bar could always be normalized to the same length, but in some ways would be more interesting left in absolute length.

Here is another brainstorm idea, where 2b, 3b and HR are shown on the same graphic as before but, proportional to their total bases:

Okay, I've spent too much time on this already!  It's an area that could use some good thinking, though. Maybe someone could build on some of the ideas in this post.

by Apricot on Oct 18, 2006 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like where you're going with that
but it seems that you might be trying to have too much data shown. I know that there are faults with AVG/OBP/SLG as measures of a hitter's worth, but I was going for a cleaner approach, something that would be understandable by most anyone at a glance.

I would love to see that much data incorporated into a graphic, but it may become too dense.

I'll ponder and tinker more, and keep you updated on what I come up with.

Oh, and as far as I'm concerned, this is a community project. Things generally turn out better when more minds toss out ideas, I've found. It's something to keep us occupied in the offseason, too, when we're not debating rumors and pretending to make trades... or reading the brilliant adventures of Diego Chavez and company.

--Nebraska--

ThePastime

by Ryan Armbrust on Oct 18, 2006 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

another option
this one has more data in it, but I think it's getting too "busy"

I want these to be comparable between players, and I'm not sure this helps.

What do you guys think, though? What would you look for in a graphic like this? What would you want to see?

--Nebraska--

ThePastime

by Ryan Armbrust on Oct 18, 2006 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

needs more facial hair
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And glitter.
"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 19, 2006 7:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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