I hate the, "chavez sucks and has no heart, " diary that seemed to pop up everyday in may, so I don't click on those ones.  

just ignore it bud.

True, it is a baseball site, first and foremost, and a tribute to our beloved Oakland Athletics, but I also feel that it has a coffee shop feel to it that is special, where people miss you if you don't post for a while, where you learn about other peoples' quirks, and where we can all share our passion for the Oakland A's (whatever form that passion may take).

We have enough topics and threads that you can pick and choose what you want to read or respond to, but I love AN and don't want it to change.

Of course...I am a chick... ;)    

I think the site could probably use a message board though. A lot of diaries (chick talk or not) would probably be better suited for a message board than a blog.

I don't see how it detracts from the site.  Besides, unlike the alcohol threads, at least they're talking about the A's(s).

If we're going to go down that road, I'd say we should include a quantitative requirement: no post can not include a statistic of some kind.

I'd also say that smartass/humorous/smutty comments from the likes of myself, Nico, apricot, et al. (not to exclude anyone or to unnecessarily malign Nico or ape by association with me) would have to be banned as well.

I hear your frustration, oaktownmario, but it really isn't that difficult to disregard off-topic posts (unless you're on a wireless PDA or something, which I've found to be a frustrating experience anyway).

Personally, I find the diversity of fandom here at AN to be genuinely refreshing and dynamic. Plus, I think Crotchby is hot.

But I think it is the freedom to be weird people here and more than just technical baseball fans that keeps people coming back to the site, and that mix of people is what keeps this place refreshing for me. If you limit the discourse, you limit the appeal and dampen the creative atmosphere.

I used to just lightly peruse the site, hoping to read another Blez interview. Somewhere along the line, I got a little more personally engaged.  It might have been when Nico and I first got into a truly idiotic pun joust. Maybe it was when Jennifer made (then reneged on) her promise to get me some frozen custard.

So, what drew us here is that we all like the A's, but what keeps us here is that we like each other as people.  At least in my mind.

Oh, I forgot to state for the record. I think all the analysis of players' hinders is funny as hell and it would be tragic to lose it.

I love reading the "strictly baseball" diaries, but the really good ones are the ones that inject outside life into the world of the A's, be it through poetry, humor or even <gulp!> hormones.

Let people talk where and when they want, about what they want.

I have been fortunate to be able to run track and field and cross country at a high level and play baseball at a significant bit less of a level but still a decent one.  And, in my experience, baseball often is much more of a haven for misogynist and sexist thought.  Running was not like that so much as the men's and woman's teams often worked out together, traveled together, and competed on the same day in the same location.  Also, at the highest level, pro runners of both sexes tend to get payed the same amount.  

Often in the baseball context I have been made to feel lesser for not being a "man".  A "man" in their terms was somebody who is insensitive, has no respect for woman, parties at night, chases skirts, and spits on the idea of good sense and rest.  I am not all that and often I would feel very nearly alone in the team environment because I was with a group of guys who were nothing like me and were threatened by the fact that I didn't see woman like they did (and many other reasons).  There is something about the culture of masculinity in sport that rewards a hyper jocular, heterosexist, sexist, misogynist, and often latently racist attitude in those who partake in the sports and at times in the fandom of those sports.  

What does this have to do with this diary?  Well, I feel that on some level, and forgive me if I am wrong, that the want to police AN on the basis of there being too much 'chick talk' plays towards this attitude that is prominent in sport  (and again, see my previous posts about the dislike of the 'wives' comments not covering this).  I love the fact that Athletics nation is a much more diverse cross section of people than most places where one can engage in sports discourse (Quite frankly, I love the bay area in part because it makes this possible.).  I would hate to see that change.  

So in other words, what is appropriate and on topic A's talk must continue to be defined by the A's fans here, the members of Athletics Nation themselves, or we risk falling into the trap of defining the discourse based upon what is the norm, the majority of sports fandom that is based upon the jocularity that narrows the range of voices.  

So what is the cost of letting the discourse here be defined with few constraints?  Sometimes the game thread gets huge and cumbersome.  I can deal with that.  Nobody gets excluded that way, including those who want to have more traditional discourse about sports.  
What is the cost of banning 'chick talk'?  A flavour that is part of what makes athletics nation so damm special.  The 'chick talk' must stay.  

Fact is, the same women who post the "chick talk" are the same women who post some of the more insightful baseball-related comments on this site.

If it's about the A's, and it's not obscene, it belongs here.

• These things are ultimately self-policing. When something (be it a "schtick" or a theme) gets "old," people start saying "that's not funny anymore" and it dies its own peer-pressure-related death. It monitors itself.
• You could never move "chick-talk" comments to their own assigned thread--it would make forced what is now spontaneous.
• Many other themes compete for first-place on people's irritationometer, e.g, VORP-talk, 6 consecutive "Hey, Byrnes was just traded!" diaries, "Macha sucks" reactions to every failure, and 3-sentence posts masquerading as diaries--just to name a few candidates.
• As those who attended Chez Nico II know: Hey, some guys are just so gorgeous even guys have to acknowledge it. Right, Forrest?

To tell you the truth, sometimes I don't post what I think about other things because I'm afraid I (1) won't be taken seriously or (2) shot down. At school, it's the same exact thing. If guys don't know me, they refuse to talk baseball with me because they think it's all "Chick Talk" and I'll only talk about their hottness rating. It really makes me mad. Every single guy I have met who loves baseball refuses to take me seriously. Once, it got so bad, I stopped watching baseball for a week. I was talking to my friend about Moneyball, and this guy came up to me and said, "Moneyball? Did you actually read that? I would think you would get mad because there's no pictures of hot asses for you. Get your mind off of baseball and go shop, or something." It's something that really gets to me. Another guy started laughing in my face when I told him I was a baseball fan. He said "Yeah, right. And I love getting tans and manicures. What's next? Are you going to start liking football? I'm sorry, but they wear pads. Their asses aren't real. Get rid of your fantasy. Baseball isn't meant for girls because all they do is destroy it and talk about the stuff you taslk about. Go do something more suited for girls." It's unfair. I've tried going to games with guy friends, and they make fun of me, asking whose pants are tighter. Even if it's all in good fun, it's not very nice and it doesn't make me feel like I'm being taken seriously.

Even my parents refuse to take me seriously. I swear, if I was a guy, my parents wouldn't flip out as much as they do now over the little things. If I start talking about baseball to my mom, she tells me to be quiet.  If I start talking about baseball with my dad, he asks me how the players looked. There's nothing more frustrating. On AN, I felt like I could talk about it and get taken seriously by everyone. I love AN. There's no restrictions of where conversations can take you. When columns get skinny, I feel like it's a tribute to our fun.

Besides. Billy reads AN. He gets asses in the seats by putting hotter ones in front of the fans. Why else would the A's be the hottest organization in baseball? :)

It's misogynistic to even think about banning "Chick Talk" when so many guys talk about women's sports in terms of hotness. Softball and Jennie Finch - #1 example. Do you see much of an outcry when people talk about the leggy blonde bombshell without mentioning her wicked arm or ERA or anything about her as a pitcher?

steps off soapbox

In closing, I wish I was Bobby Crosby

I'm really curious what the percentage is on AN.

as i have said before, i do skip over the drooling over a's players comments <strike>most</strike> all of the time. however, if that floats your boat, go right ahead.

limiting it should, and will, not happen.

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/oak/fan_forum/commercials_2004.jsp

oaktownmario: I'm sorry you're being skewered here because I think you've been polite enough, even if you've ruffled some feathers.  

That said, AN must never ban any non-vulgar, non-disparaging discussions, even they belong in Teen People.  We can't worrying about being sensored whenever we're a tad bit off-topic.  

Besides ... fellas, who amongst us has ever actually carried on a 100% forehand/backhand/groundstroke conversation about women's tennis?

"That's a real good lookin' boy!"

Enough said.  If the A's themselves are joining in the chick talk, why should AN be any different?  

The finalists...

The Bold and the Beautiful Ass
Guiding Ass
Ordinary Ass
Asses of Our Lives
As the Ass Turns
The Young and the Restless Ass

and the winner...

All My Children's Asses

Yes, in case you're wondering, I'm trying to pad this thread out to 400.