AL West = AL Worst

Dan Johnson

please...oh pretty please...though I think someone said he had food poisoning, ugh! Well I still believe in this team, everyone except Harden is playing horrible so we have to expect better in this team...the wins and runs will come again...bank on it!

by hillofbeanes on May 11, 2005 4:34 PM PDT reply actions

DJ hit a slam today

As OaklandSi wrote on the game thread, "if Dan Johnson isn't called up for Friday's game, I want to know why."

It is time.

by Brian in 317 on May 11, 2005 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions

you know i think i might be wrong

maybe someone else named Johnson hit a slam today and I misunderstood what I heard on the radio. But still, he's needed up here, and I hope to see him this weekend.

by Brian in 317 on May 11, 2005 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions

it was tuesday

by Brian in 317 on May 12, 2005 6:14 AM PDT up reply actions

Correction

everyone on this team is not playing way below their projections except Harden & Kotsay...the law of averages will even us out...

by hillofbeanes on May 11, 2005 4:37 PM PDT reply actions

I'm no math person

But I think the "law of averages" is a myth. If you roll a six sided dice 100 times and each time a 1 comes up, on the 101st row, the chance of it coming up as a 1 is still 1/6. The chances of rolling 101 1s in a row is about an infinity to one, but it doesn't change the outcome of one particular roll. Except I may have just disproved myself. Oh well.

Hope for the best, but be prepared to accept the worst, I guess.

by Melody on May 11, 2005 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions

That's way to heavy for a baseball blog

I can handle WHIP and OPS, but the validity/empirical proof of a "law of averages" is over my head on a Wednesday night after a 1-5 roadtrip.

by WannaBeGM on May 11, 2005 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions

melody is correct

This is tricky. One need to distinguish independent and dependent events. Independent means that the results of one die roll doesn't affect the distribution of probabilities of the next die roll. Which is, in theory, true. So if you believe that player's results are independent of each other (and some people, especially saberheads do), then you believe that players in the future will tend to perform at average levels, regardless of past performance. So if Chavez goes 0 for 100, the law of averages doesn't mean he's going to end the season hitting his past average. It does suggest that he'll hit the rest of the season at his past average. That's why players usually 'regress to the mean'. It's not a magic thing that makes people's future cancel out their past luck. It just means in the future they tend to perform at their average level. If they were doing poorly before, their average will go up, etc etc.

(I am a math person.)

However, people's performances is not proven to be independent. I would guess there are plenty of players (Rocker?) who got on a bad streak and lost discipline/confidence, and others who got on a good streak, which gave them the push to permanently improve their play.

I think it's an open question whether in general player performances really are statistically independent of recent performance...

by Apricot on May 11, 2005 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Bingo

Good explanation -
There are reasons to suspect that day to day performance is not independant. If my knee is slightly injured Monday, it's likely that way Tuesday too.

If you blow two saves in consecutive days, it might not just be pure chance.

by MobiusKlein on May 11, 2005 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions

You are correct it is a myth.

Most people are referring to the law of large numbers and it doesn't say anything about the probability of the next event occurring.

" A fundamental law in probability theory and statistics stating that if an event or probability p is observed repeatedly during independent repetitions the proportion of the observed frequency of that event to the number of repetitions converges towards p as the number of repetitions become large."

by Donner on May 11, 2005 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Career years?

eh? really?

A career year is a year that you expect to be the best of a player's career. You really think all those guys had career years?

You think Chavvy at 26 peaked and is now over the hill, just riding it out to retirement?

It surprises you that Byrnes and Ginter improved (and not by all that much) from their first full year in the majors to their second?

Durazo didn't have a career year, his numbers were right in line with what he was doing in Arizona - Ken Mach just had a career year because he let Ruby play.

Kotsay was similar to Ruby - his numbers were right in line with his last 2 healthy seasons. You might not expect him to stay healthy, but, assuming he is healthy, there's no reason to expect any significant regression.

I just needed something new here, since the season had started ...

by devo on May 12, 2005 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Not only those good comments

It's stupid to say that Kendall can't go back to his norm because his norm is helped by three monster years. Kendall has hit under 300 3 times in his 10 year career. Soph year, 2001, and 2002. Those two years don't worry me because he then came back to hit .325 and .319 the two years after. What i am expecting (and you are saying he can't do) is to do what he did last year: 300/400/400. He has been at least that 8/10 years in his career (soph year: .294 .391 .434 )

My last signature was bad luck, since the A's have sucked so far. I needed to shake things up. Flagggablaggaggabagg (try and say this fast)

by ohad on May 12, 2005 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions

I believe

that Durazo faced lefties in 24% of his ABs in 2002 ... which is actually more than he has faced them this year, but a bit less than in 03 or 04, when he was about 31% each year. That would have amounted to a grand total of 15 extra ABs - if we adjust his OBS based on his lefty/righty splits to the proportions of last year and his 2002 rates, he would have posted a .914 ops - pretty comperable to the .919 he posted last year. I also believe in actually looking up the numbers instead of making idle statements about what I believe.

Assuming health, a small dropoff from Kotsay - say to around his 01-02 levels wouldn't be unexpected, I'll grant ya that.

It is a very rare player who establishes his career norm at the age of 22. It is also a rare player who establishes a career high at 26 when it is only moderately higher than his age 22-25 numbers. You can believe the worst about everybody, but, as someone who is apparently a gambling man, you should be aware, historically speaking, you aren't playing the odds.

Byrnes, like you said, he's hard to figure - there was certainly the decent chance he could drop a bit and a roughly equal chance he would improve.

I'd agree that Hatty was a good candidate for regression - he's old, unlike everyone else we're discussing.

Ginter - "Not a big difference, but again the better year was the more recent" - see, you seem confused ... that's a good thing.

Being injured isn't regression - it's a part of the game. And I've gotta say, Crosby's season to this point, when he's been on the field, has been spectacular - .500 OBP, .500 SLG - 1.000 OPS. Hell of a season to this point.

Of course his 98-00 years aren't indicative of his likely performance this year. What we were looking for is the .400 OBP and SLG that he's posted that last two years. Call me crazy, but plus or minus 10 points, I'm still betting he'll get it.

There's always a chance that players will drop off - but when they're relatively young and aren't coming off a season that is disproportionately out of proportion with their recent past performances, there's a better chance that they'll actually improve. Hatty was a good bet to fall off. Kotsay wasn't likely to improve much more, neither was Kendall. There wasn't any reason to expect bad things from anyone else.

There is also still reason for hope. Kendall has been significantly better after the break over the last 3 years (.795 v .752), so has Chavvy (.895 v .852), and Kotsay (.813 v .774), while Ruby has also been better, though not as dramatically (.880 v .869). Byrnes hasn't been better in the 2nd half to this point in his career - but he has been terribly streaky, so there's no reason to believe he isn't likely to turn it around as well.

Or maybe not ... who knows? I choose to believe.

I just needed something new here, since the season had started ...

by devo on May 12, 2005 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Mostly agree with Devo

I'd like to point out a few stupid things you said:

Chavez: You said: "he has yet to achieve the kind of "Great Leap Forward" you often see with hitters at or about 26-27 years old.". Chavez has been improving every year, and now he is at that age. And then you went right ahead and said "2004 was his best OPS year-- odds were that he would slip this year-- he has". Since he is at that age, shouldn't he keep improving? Especially since he finally had a good year verse lefties, but the average went way down verse righties. This was the best bet year for a breakout since he showed he had all the pieces, now it was a matter of showcasing them all at once.

Ginter: You showed his OPS': 779 and 812. Now he's 29. He might regress a tiny bit, but best bet is that he has an 800 OPS. HE's not hatteberg, he's not losing bat speed or anything like that. He's still a relatively young hitter improving and adjusting to the league.

My last signature was bad luck, since the A's have sucked so far. I needed to shake things up. Flagggablaggaggabagg (try and say this fast)

by ohad on May 13, 2005 5:22 AM PDT up reply actions

And your reason

For expecting a Ginter dropoff:

"Not a big difference, but again the better year was the more recent" Again, he is not Hatteberg, not losing bat speed etc. etc. etc....

My last signature was bad luck, since the A's have sucked so far. I needed to shake things up. Flagggablaggaggabagg (try and say this fast)

by ohad on May 13, 2005 5:23 AM PDT up reply actions

Rosencranz?

That never happens...really. The fabric of time and space would be rift if it did ;)

And anyone gets extra points if they get my reference.

by LD on May 12, 2005 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions

rosencranz and guildenstern

and the flipping of the coin that always comes up heads.

by lovethegame on May 12, 2005 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions

r&g finally came out on dvd!

by xbhaskarx on May 12, 2005 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions

I didn't even know

they were gay.

Nico

by Nico on May 12, 2005 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions

Ohhhhh...

there you go again! ;-)
Nico: always the master of the well-turned phrase.
(and I promise no S/M jokes from this quarter!)

signed/ A Fan.
:-)

"Holy Manama!" ~Bahrain, 5,000+ miles east of Toledo :-)~

by NomAd on May 12, 2005 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions

My Opinion

I don't think they're gonna do anything. They're just gonna chalk it up to a slump and see when the team will snap out of it.

"The game is here. Play or get played"

by tonyarmas50 on May 11, 2005 4:38 PM PDT reply actions

My Jermaine Clark question...

Why even bother bringing him up? I dont think he has even started a game yet. Why not give him a start or two and see what he does? Maybe you catch some lightning.....

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on May 11, 2005 4:38 PM PDT reply actions

Exactly!

That's why I don't think they're gonna do anything. They brought him up and he's only appeared in like 2 games. They haven't moved the lineup around too much. Chavvy should be hitting sixth or lower right now. SO should Kendall. If they won't do that, what makes you think they're gonna start calling up rookies???

"The game is here. Play or get played"

by tonyarmas50 on May 11, 2005 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions

"This is much less than a crisis"

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/05/11/AS11.TMP

Boston -- Back in mid-May of 2002, the A's came off a terrible East Coast road trip on which they won just one game, and GM Billy Beane provided some immediate feedback when the team returned, demoting three regulars and, two days later, trading Jeremy Giambi.

Today, the A's return from another weak East Coast trip, again after winning just one game, but it isn't likely that Beane will making any sweeping changes.

"We're (14-20), it's not like it's the end of the world,'' Beane said by phone from Oakland. "I still think it's time to be patient. ... This is much less than a crisis.''

by gotgreen on May 11, 2005 4:39 PM PDT reply actions

Bull****

Billy is playing to his peers. He doesn't want to appear desperate. This IS a crisis.

by boilerdan on May 12, 2005 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions

you are correct ds ... this is an offensive crisis

... plus what the heck else would anyone expect BB or any other GM to say to a reporter ... Given the team's anemic performace it would be refreshing, but completely unexpected for BB to respond to any reporter with ... the truth !!

it would be great for BB to say 'Well, I languished around asking for too much for Byrnes and we're hitting below .240. My trade for kendall, well that stunk. what was I thinking? I let Schuerholz fleece me. If I were a fan, I'd call up and get my money back for tickets you've already bought for 2005. Here's the phone number to call. I'll hand deliver all refunds. BUT I am still the best looking GM in the bigs !!'

now those quotes would be worth reading and worth putting some stock in to !!'

otherwise, the 'let's be patient, we're only 14-20' quotes are the throw-away quotes of appeasement !!

by HerbWashington on May 12, 2005 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions

What about Frank Thomas?

I know he is a selfish, injury prone tight end that couldn't knock in as many runs as Hudson in college, but he is right handed and the White Sox don't need him. I have no idea what his contract is like, and we would have to move Durazo, but I think the White Sox would be interested in getting rid of him.

by gaucho on May 11, 2005 4:41 PM PDT reply actions

Yes, yes, and yes

Time for Street to get broken in ... and if he struggles from time to time, so be it. He's the closer of the future, let's let him pay his dues now -- it'll only make him better next season.

Bring up both Johnson and either Cust or Watson (if one of 'em hit RH, it would be a no-brainer.)
Send Hatteberg on his way. Great guy -- no statement of his character -- but ship him out for the player to be named later, and bring him back into the front office next year.
This way Johnson pays his dues like Street. But get him in the lineup.
Cust or Watson starts over Byrnes in LF. No explanation necessary. Send Clark back down, and sit Byrnes down or ship him out with Hatteberg. This way you could bring them both up if Thomas got sent to Sac. to play every day.

Trades? Well, who knows? But making a move "to help us this year" is silly. This year is done. Kearns would be the guy that helps us most for the future? Then guys like that should only be considered.

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on May 11, 2005 4:41 PM PDT reply actions

Call ups

I think its time to call up. Its 6 weeks into the season, there is no reaon to think we will break out of this after 6 weeks with out doing some roster turnover.

We cant be any worse off if we bring up the young'ins to the Majors right now. At worst- we still suck and they get Major League expiriance. At best, it revitalizes the offence.

The guys with value that will not return need to be delt I think. That means Dotel, Byrnes, Durazo, Rincon, ect. They can bring in good, young players that will propell us to the future, or at least, give us a different lineup.

"The Pen is mightier then the Sword, that is why I use a Paintball Gun!"

by Zonis on May 11, 2005 4:41 PM PDT reply actions

lineup

If we traded Byrnes, Durazo and Hatteberg, and got some good young guys back that can play this year or next, and brought up Watson, Cust and Johnson, can you really say that this lineup would be worse then it is now?

Kotsay (CF)
Kendall (C)
Chavez (3B)
Kielty (RF)
Johnson (1B)
Ellis (2B)
Scutaro (SS)
Watson (LF)
Cust (DH)

When Crosby and Swisher get back...

Kotsay (CF)
Kendall (C)
Chavez (3B)
Kielty (LF)
Crosby (SS)
Swisher (1B)
Johnson (DH)
Watson (LF)
Scutaro/Ellis (2B)

"The Pen is mightier then the Sword, that is why I use a Paintball Gun!"

by Zonis on May 11, 2005 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions

If they do make call-ups

They have to let them play.

I'd hate to see Johnson/Watson/Ethier get called up and not be in the lineup. And it would have to be for more than just a game or two. Give them a real chance.

As far as trades go, I like the idea of Kearns, but Sweeney I don't really get. He's a 1B, for one, he's expensive, and he's a bit of an injury risk. I would like to see Hatteberg in more of a reserve role, but rather give Johnson a shot at 1B. Yes, I think Sweeney could help the offense, but I'm not sure he's worth the price, what we'd have to give up, or costing Johnson a shot.

I'm not sure the A's are just one player away from seriously competing, despite the weakness in the division. Lets give the kids a shot...

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on May 11, 2005 4:43 PM PDT reply actions

Judging from the Chronicle

article...our front office is going to continue to remain patient for now.

by Tyler Bleszinski on May 11, 2005 4:44 PM PDT reply actions

A's Front Office

has been patiant for the last 6 weeks+, and look what its got em.

"The Pen is mightier then the Sword, that is why I use a Paintball Gun!"

by Zonis on May 11, 2005 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Patience is fine

I just want to see Chavvy hit a jack over the next two series. Just one. That's it.

by AlwaysSweatin on May 11, 2005 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions

Not high on Kearns

I'm not convinced Kearns would help much. He is currently batting .209 with 15 RBI, slugs .461, and has an OBPS of .709. Pretty much everyone on the A's has similar numbers. His career numbers are not much better, except for the 02 season, and he has injury issues. Here are his career #s:

HR RBI AVG OBP SLG OBPS

02 (107 Gms) 13 56 .315 .407 .500 .907

03 (82 Gms) 15 58 .264 .364 .455 .819

04 (64 gms) 9 32 .230 .321 .419 .740

05 (28 Gms) 5 15 .209 .291 .418 .709

Plus there's that whole AL "adjustment period." Too much of that on the team already. I like Sweeney, but BB will have to be creative with the financial part.

by oaktownmario on May 11, 2005 4:48 PM PDT reply actions

With all the insanity in KC

I think with all the weird moves being made by KC right now yuo should attempt to get Sweeney...I have this odd feeling the A's would somehow come away with Andy Sisco and Zach Greinke and David DeJesus just because the KC front office and team is losing its mind.

by Marc Normandin @ Athletics Nation on May 12, 2005 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions

Mike Sweeney...

has been my pick all along so far this year.Saint and I discussed this earlier and we both agree he would be a great start in adding a right handed stick to the lineup.

I'd definitely send down Thomas and bring up Watson or Johnson, send Sarloos to the pen, either bring up Rheinie to start or be another lefty outta the pen, and make Dukie the 5th starter if one of the above happens.

I also have been very much in favor of giving Street a chance to close, if that's what it would take to win the close games more often than not. Those who argue with me have to know that we drafted this guy to be a closer, because that is exactly wha the did as a Texas Longhorn. This kid loves competition and I have to say that even though he's a rookie, he's shown me alot more this year than O.C.D. the veteran. Give the kid a shot, what's the worst that could happen????????

Last thing I want to add is that I believe Dotel knew before the year even started that he was hurt and that we got suckered into signing the guy, thus bringing damaged goods to the table. Others have the theory he has "juiced" in the past and now that he's off the arm candy his stuff isn't the same. True or false? We'll never know but the knowledge of injury "pre-signing" is what I'm sticking with. Roids or no roids.....

I'm really stoked that we have this site up to share our thoughts and pains, and our ups as well. Thank you Blez for getting this thing goin........

Here's hoping we give the bastards some payback when they come to Oakland. I, for one, am not resigned to throwing in the towel just yet. We were alot worse off than this all the way back in 2001, remember? Even I was convinced we were done that year. Not making predictions, just pointing out a little history. Peace...

by mrod on May 11, 2005 4:49 PM PDT reply actions

You're so wrong about Dotel

'cause if you're right, we're getting much less trade value for him than before...especially, as you say, with Street backing us up. Maybe you're right, and he's injured. He's done a hell of a job so far this year...6 of 7 or 8 save opportunities?

Street needs more time, but he's one hell of a pitcher.

by LD on May 12, 2005 1:34 AM PDT up reply actions

AL Worst is right

Probably the biggest positive of the whole season is that our customary performance out of the gate seems to be contagious.

My opinions on these ideas:

Too early to turn it over to Street. Two home runs in two days is tough to stomach, sure--but Huston's (alleged) issue with pitching back-to-back days probably shouldn't be worked out while in the closer role. It also puts too much blame on Dotel for the team's struggles. Dotel is going to command a king's ransom on the open market later this year, so we may as well keep him in this role to enhance his trade value. I don't think other teams are going to shy away after giving up homers to the best offense in the AL.
Call-ups definitely need to happen. I agree that Saarloos is showing he's not a starter, but rather an effective middle reliever, and am on record about liking to see Duchscherer in this role. I think Rheinecker is a good call too--if he has a couple of strong starts, which is always possible when the league hasn't seen a pitcher before, he might also become a nice item to package in a trade. Maybe we can fool the Royals again.

The only position player in Sac who really seems like a big league power source to me is Dan Johnson, and the position problems it creates makes that tough. As a relatively new Sacramento resident, I look forward to seeing a RiverCats game sometime soon to make more sense of the OF options. None of them, on paper, sound like they would be the magic bullet.

3) Too early, indeed, but I'd love to see Sweeney. I think his value as a character guy is not to be underestimated. Other than Kotsay, I don't really see a lot of alpha type personalities on our team this year--people with unflappable belief in their abilities. That's part of what we're missing increasingly, as Giambi, Tejada, and Hudson were all those kinds of guys.

Isn't it amazing that Giambi used to be that kind of guy?

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on May 11, 2005 4:49 PM PDT reply actions

Speaking of G

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see him in green and gold again.

Especially if they can get him at a reasonable price.

by Tyler Bleszinski on May 11, 2005 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions

For some reason

I'd like to see that...............weird.

by AlwaysSweatin on May 11, 2005 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions

Funny you should mention it

Monty Poole wrote an interesting article about that very idea today:

http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_2727481

Durazo would help offset some of the salary implications. That in itself doesn't sound like a good deal for us, but it would be interesting to see how desperate the Yanks really are to get rid of him--maybe we could really lowball them and still not have to pay for it. You don't ask, you don't get.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on May 11, 2005 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions

me too!

Then I could hang up my Jason Giambi Growth Chart that I got at the game like 10 years ago!

"I don't know what I was saying, but it was badass" - Josh Homme

by LoveThemAs on May 11, 2005 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions

G would fit in very will with our offense.

by Checkswing HR on May 12, 2005 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions

why??????

would we want Giambi back now? He's a shell of his old self and I just don't see the value of bringing him back unless you are just being nostalgic. "The prodigal son?".

by mrod on May 11, 2005 4:57 PM PDT reply actions

Yup

Pretty much. I'm a sucker for a good biblical drama. The deflated prodigal son. I like it. Do it. If it happens, its gonna be on the cheap for sure.

by AlwaysSweatin on May 11, 2005 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Two Words...

John Jaha. :-)

Like Poole said, if BB could resurrect him aft grabbing him from baseball's junk heap, then anything is possible.

A season or two of decent numbers from G would bridge the 1B gap until Barton gets here.

Even a shell of G's former self would put up numbers comparable to Hatty and Durazo, and bring a swagger to boot.

TLAAoAitCoO - The Los Angeles Angeles of Anaheim in the County of Orange.

by nodaclu on May 11, 2005 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions

They need a leader

Chavvy ain't no leader...he doesn't even have confidence in HIMSELF. Kendall's still adjusting to both the team and the AL. Zito's not leader material either. They need someone who can put a fire under these guy's a$$es, and there's no one there. Geez, even our manager just got kicked out of his FIRST GAME EVER!

"The game is here. Play or get played"

by tonyarmas50 on May 11, 2005 4:57 PM PDT reply actions

and only

cuz Billy told him to, basically.

by AlwaysSweatin on May 11, 2005 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions

it was over a called strike so he didn't even have

to use naughty words!!!!!!!!!!!!

by elephantman on May 11, 2005 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Giambi

Would be worth the gamble if he comes cheap, but who sits? Hatty or Durazo.

by oscarwdog on May 11, 2005 4:59 PM PDT reply actions

Hatty

as a matter of fact, retire him! J/K I would sit him and use him as a PH.

by oaktownmario on May 11, 2005 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Giambi...

is lucky to be alive. He was a leader when he was here and went to N.Y. and crumbled like a gingerbread cookie. Besides, the guy is a"CHEATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

by mrod on May 11, 2005 5:00 PM PDT reply actions

yeah

But i bet you loved him when he was cheating for Oakland................

by AlwaysSweatin on May 11, 2005 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions

G

with a busted up knee and Chavy's confindence level....lost his swing.

JJH

by flatcoat on May 11, 2005 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions

giambi

Not anymore :) Thats why he is available

by oscarwdog on May 11, 2005 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Why, in heaven's name

would we want another shot, left-handed first baseman who can't hit????!!!!

Don't we have enough over-rated lefties with absolutely no stick??

This is ludicrous.

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on May 11, 2005 5:01 PM PDT reply actions

Depends if he's really shot

It makes sense that he isn't producing now, but as Poole says in his article, he's not swinging at bad pitches. Still some chance he could get back on track. He's never been a lefty that had problems with lefties, either.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on May 11, 2005 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions

I find it astounding that

The The Angels Angels and Seattle are both hitting worse than we are. That's a little scary, since when we start hitting like we should, they'll probably crank it up as well.

by Apricot on May 11, 2005 5:02 PM PDT reply actions

Don't be hasty

My first thought after hearing Dotel blew another game was that it might be time for Street to get some looks in the closer spot.

My second thought was that my first thought was just over-reacting to Dotel blowing the last 3 leads he's been given and that if we (well, the A's anyway) have been patient with the offense for almost a month and a half, then we should be patient with Dotel after one bad week.

My third thought was "Boy, am I hungry. I could sure go for some Taco Bell right now."

I don't think we should make Street the full time closer just yet, but I do think it is time to start giving him the occasional save oppertunity to get him some experience. At this point in his extremely young career, that's really all he needs. He clearly has the pitching ability and the mindset to be a good closer. And as last night showed, he has the ability to go 2 innings if necessary, something that Dotel can't seem to do.

As for the lineup, I don't see how it can hurt to bring up some of our AAA guys, especially Watson and Johnson who don't have anything left to prove down there. I'm not sure who should be sent down, although Thomas is a candidate so that he can get some regular AB's. I suppose Clark could be too, although it seems silly to send him down as soon as he's been up when he hasn't really had the chance to do anything.

If guys are brought up, they need to be given the chance to play. Not just starting day games after night games or late inning replacements in blowouts.

This is an organization that prides itself on not following convention when convention is silly. I think an unconventional approach to the lineup might be in order.

Jonathon

"This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Lets's not bicker and argue about who killed who.... "

by JLeverenz on May 11, 2005 5:02 PM PDT reply actions

mmm...

taco bell

"I don't know what I was saying, but it was badass" - Josh Homme

by LoveThemAs on May 11, 2005 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions

Two more things

We, amazingly, did not lose any more ground.
Maybe the offense can build off this game. They really gutted it out in the ninth. I know the pitching messed it up, but the offense is the side who needs therapy. I hope this will get them pumped up.

by Apricot on May 11, 2005 5:05 PM PDT reply actions

Absolutely.......

That G was cheating in Oakland is of no consequence to me anymore because it disregards respect to me as a true fan of baseball and to himself for putting that sh8t in his body in the first place. Nobody forced that upon him and now he has no one to blame but himself. Look at him now, he is a sad and ridiculed man!

I have compassion for him as ahuman being, but now we're talking business and bringing Jason back would not be a sound business decision. Saint, where are you? Help stop this insanity!!!!!!

by mrod on May 11, 2005 5:06 PM PDT reply actions

Probably so

Besides which, I can't see him wanting to come back here, with how resoundingly our fan base has rejected him since he left for the money.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on May 11, 2005 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Absolutely agree

Any argument you can make for bringing Giambi back can also essentially be made for bringing up Dan Johnson, with the addition that Johnson's

younger
cheaper
has no baggage

Jonathon

"This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Lets's not bicker and argue about who killed who.... "

by JLeverenz on May 11, 2005 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions

Giambi and Steroids

Here is something to consider. Steriod use is only an act of cheating in terms of public opinion. Personally I am against it, but the fact is that there was no rule outlined by MLB that suggested that banned steroid use. Giambi, Bonds, etc. al. were taking advantage of loopholes in the rules of MLB. I would take G back in a second, even as a shell of his former self. I am one of few that did not boo him upon his return and a fan that generally wanted him to do well. No player has an obligation to be loyal to anyone but their families and friends. Baseball is a business not just a form of entertainment. Also, if Burger King offered you $0.25 more than your current $5.75 per hour salary to clean bathrooms I am sure that you would accept. Does that make you unloyal?

by ChickWalker on May 12, 2005 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Too much past...

Feeling betrayed,ied to, and then shown up on national t.v. when he went on Letterman. A-hole!

by mrod on May 11, 2005 5:09 PM PDT reply actions

whoops...

I meant "lied to". But I did mean "A-hole!"

by mrod on May 11, 2005 5:10 PM PDT reply actions

Maybe we can settle on some middle ground.

Street should get the opportunity to close out games, especially if a situation arises when Dotel has pitched the day before. Someone pointed out to me earlier that this undermines Dotel and that "closer by committee" doesn't work out well, but it's probably the best compromise. I definitely don't think Street should be made the full time closer at this point in time, but obviously it's important for him to get experience.

Saarloos and Duchscherer should switch jobs, even if it's just for a day. Or maybe we could try what the Rockies did today - pretty much bullpen it the whole way. [The Rockies' scheduled starter Kennedy was injured, and without anyone in the rotation rested enough to take the mound, they threw in Kim, a starter-turned-relief pitcher, into the game to start today. They planned to let him go 3 innings or 50 pitches, but he did such a good job they left him in for 6. The Rockies won the game in the bottom of the 9th, even after the closer blew the lead in the top half of the 9th.] Take your chances, try something new, throw off your opponent. It would be an interesting game to have Duchscherer start, see how he does after 3-5 innings as a starter, turn it to Saarloos in the middle stretch if necessary, put in Cruz/Rincon for relief, close it with Street. Then we can't complain that Billy Beane/Macha didn't try something super drastic ;)

by Melody on May 11, 2005 5:14 PM PDT reply actions

I like it.....

and I wouldn't mind seeing Mark Kotsay in the three hole either.

by mrod on May 11, 2005 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions

I like it

Between Saarloos and Duchscherer we can get 8 or so innings (not to mention driving the play-by-play guys nuts having to spell/pronounce their names!) and give Street a chance to close and give the rest of the bullpen a rest (hopefully!).

Jonathon

"This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Lets's not bicker and argue about who killed who.... "

by JLeverenz on May 11, 2005 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions

64 wins, 73 losses

That is the cumulative won-loss record of the AL West. That seems terrible. I'm glad our competition sucks right now.

Thanks for posting the batting averages of the other teams, Blez: I had no idea they are that low.

"Put a Milo on him."
-Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on May 11, 2005 5:15 PM PDT reply actions

you know what this looks like

The 1994 AL West Standings

Texas 52-62
Oakland 51-63
Seattle 49-63
California 47-68

Creepy...I wish the strike dindt happen just to see a team under .500 win the division.

by Marc Normandin @ Athletics Nation on May 12, 2005 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions

Giambi article...

Gave me some memories of good times in our clubhouse but I have to say that "G" would really have to turn his whole world around "and " publicly apologize to all A's fans for being such a f%^$$$$ng retard(special emphasis on the $$$$$).

That's how pissed I am still for what he did!

by mrod on May 11, 2005 5:20 PM PDT reply actions

The good news is...

Our division might be weak enough so that they won't have to win as many games as 2002.

"Put a Milo on him."
-Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on May 11, 2005 5:28 PM PDT reply actions

Hmmmm....

I'm sort of on the patience/make drastic changes fence. Immediate reaction screams "Trade! Send 'em down! Change roles NOW!" but once I calm down, probably some patience is in order to see if, as mentioned before, the law of averages takes over and our offense kicks it in gear. We're fortunate the rest of the division is scuffling as well so we're not out of the race at all.
That being said - Dotel as set-up man and Street as closer intrigues me. Changes at first base intrigue me. Spending time in Denver makes me ponder some sort of trade that brings Todd Helton over (they're desperate for a catcher). Probably a pipe dream - but hey, BB's always surprised us in the past... think something along the lines of Hatteburg, Durazo,Melhuese and a pitcher for Helton and BK Kim.

Bleah, never mind. Don't think that. It's creepy.

by TravelingAsFan on May 11, 2005 5:51 PM PDT reply actions

Reading that post pushes me back

towards the patience side of the fence.

by TravelingAsFan on May 11, 2005 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions

I'd love to get Todd Helton

He's only 31, and he is one of the best hitters of the last 15 years. That would take some creative thinking, though! I'd do it for Durazo, Meyer, and one of our catching prospects.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on May 11, 2005 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions

The Rockies have gotten smarter

And would probably ask for Kendall.

Kendall for Helton.

Think about that one....

by TravelingAsFan on May 11, 2005 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Heh!

That idea brings a chuckle :-). You have a point, though--no one in the Rockies' front office is going to be a MENSA member anytime soon.

IF they'd do that, I'd gladly sub in Kendall for the catching prospect. I have no real problem with Melhuse being the starter until the kids come up.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on May 11, 2005 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Hey I didn't think of that.

Maybe we SHOULD consider dealing Kendall instead of Melhuse if they really need a catcher.

by Melody on May 11, 2005 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions

Think about this:

Helton's contract (courtesy of Dugout Dollars)

2005 $12.60m
2006 $16.60m
2007 $16.60m
2008 $16.60m
2009 $16.60m
2010 $16.60m
2011 $19.1m
2012 $23m option ($4.6m buyout)

There is however a clause that states the contract can be voided after 2007. I have no idea what the conditions for that are. Maybe something to do with injury?

I dunno, 2011 is a LONG ways away. Who knows if Todd Helton will be worth 19 million bucks 6 freakin' years from now...

by OaktownTribesman on May 11, 2005 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions

Heh... Quite a bundle

In my opinion, while Helton is a great asset to any team, the Rockies are overpaying him. It's not to say he doesn't deserve that much, but that kind of money is something you should only see the Yankees shelling out. The money may be better put to use to even out the rest of the team. I didn't even know he was getting paid on a sliding scale, I thought it was 12.5 million a year for the next six years.

With that said, I think the chances of Helton being dealt is probably less than zero. He slumped a bit in the beginning of this year, but he's starting to get real hot. The Rockies are counting on him to lead them to postseason, and as a result they're not going to let him go. If they solidify their bullpen and have some luck with their [talented] starting pitchers, I think they do have a legitimate shot at a wild card title, or even the NL West, in the next 2-4 years. Sure, it's a long shot, but since they are one of the better offensive teams, I think they can get it done. And they're young - with relatively minor changes, the current roster will last them another six years, no problem. The only problem I foresee is that once the contracts of their current players expire, they'll leave for other teams that will be able to pay them more, because the Rockies will be spending a third of their payroll on Helton.

by Melody on May 11, 2005 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Helton won't leave.

I've been talking about the Rockies alot, so please forgive me because I'm bringing up the same points again :)

Even if we could afford Helton [Hatteburg, Durazo and Melhuse combine for 8 million while Helton is signed for 12.5], I don't think he wants to leave. He has a "no trade" clause in his contract, and while I don't know that much about him, I think he's pretty attached to his team. Another reason why Hatteberg for Helton just won't work out is that we have Johnson ready to take over first base, so why would we pick up Helton? It doesn't make sense. Plus he's their franchise player, like Chavez is our franchise player.

The Rockies' 'current' philosophy is to keep and establish their homegrown players, but anyone could tell you that they could definitely use a more mature catcher to develop their young pitchers. Their catcher JD Closser is a second year player, and he's off to a cold start.

Maybe we should be looking for something more along the lines of Melhuse and Byrnes for Hawpe [young lefty outfielder with power, who curiously enough bats better away] and Fuentes, a left-handed relief pitcher, because we could use another southpaw. Honestly I'd love to see Jeff Francis in the A's organization, but the Rockies have super high hopes for him and I don't think they're going to give him up. Kim is probably too expensive of a player to pick up [6 million] and we honestly don't really need another right handed pitcher.

by Melody on May 11, 2005 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions

What's Kendall's salary?

Helton for Kendall makes even more sense when you think about it that way... and the Rockies could hang the "franchise player" tag on Kendall - they're really that desperate.

Helton may not leave, like you say, but it sure makes a lot of sense for everyone involved, and I'm sure he'd like to at least have a shot at contributing to a winning effort, rather than batting .330 with power and stellar defense and go 60-102.

Probably won't happen, not a chance in hell, in fact. But it's fun to think about.

by TravelingAsFan on May 11, 2005 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Oh, and I was kidding about BK Kim

For obvious reasons.

by TravelingAsFan on May 11, 2005 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Helton

Hate to remind everyone we passed on Helton when he was drafted and took Ariel Prieto...
oops

Morada Mudshark

by Morada Mudshark on May 12, 2005 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Prieto over Helton

Hindsight is 20/20 idiot!

by ChickWalker on May 12, 2005 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions

What to do, What to do!

Street should be brought along ala FRod, I was at his first game and ,wow, you could tell he was the man. Street's our closer for next year. The whole bullpen is up in arms. Bradford will come back later so that's hidden value. Cruz should come around but Calero's injury is tough to handle. Duke has shown the ability to start but he is too valuable to the bullpen. We have enough rookie starters.

At first I thought Chavez should be dropped in the lineup but at this point let him struggle until he DECIDES to break out of it. If he wants to bat .250 15hr's and 70 rbi's so be it, maybe next year he will come back stronger. Kendall is tough to take as he was supposed to be a real gamer and if I see one more one-hopper to second I may puke. Running the same lineup out every night is frustrating as it has been proven that it is not working.

A "sample size"has never gotten a hit and a "track record" has never struck someone out. Baseball is played by real people who have their ups and downs. Book smarts and street smarts are different things.

by natsirt on May 11, 2005 5:52 PM PDT reply actions

No kidding on Kendall

Has he hit a ball hard all year? Although he never hit homers, he used to hit doubles. Right now, he's just a slap hitter.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on May 11, 2005 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions

ichiro

is a slap hitter.

JJH

by flatcoat on May 11, 2005 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions

F*@# It

What's the freakin point of all this speculating and brain-storming? The A's either suck or they don't. As a group with all the same info we can't even come to any sort of consensus. There's just a ton of miscellaneous threads with disparate ideas.

So what's the point?

Go A's ... I guess.

For some reason we seem to give a sh*t more than the A's do.

by TonyArmas on May 11, 2005 6:11 PM PDT reply actions

you GUESS?

Boy, I'm gonna whoop yo' ass! Snap out of it; stop being a fair weather fan. That's so LAME.

"I don't know what I was saying, but it was badass" - Josh Homme

by LoveThemAs on May 11, 2005 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions

yeah

totally lame.

JJH

by flatcoat on May 11, 2005 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Hellah Lame

by Marc Normandin @ Athletics Nation on May 12, 2005 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions

It's the kind of knee-jerk reaction

I'm used to witnessing in Fenway, not on AN.

"Look what we did!"

by ArakSOT on May 12, 2005 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions

AAA bat ... and jason giambi!

i say bring up a bat from sacramento to shake things up, and get giambi if it's possible to pay under $2 million a year for him.

i was never a giambi fan, but he's hitting .195 and still has the third highest OBP on the yankees at .386

this could be a decent lineup until chavez starts hitting:

kendall
giambi
kotsay
kielty
chavez
durazo
AAA outfielder
ginter
scutaro

by xbhaskarx on May 11, 2005 6:26 PM PDT reply actions

Take a deep breath

Yes they are playing like crap but its early to panic, IMO. This team isn't an obvious World Series contender that with a 14-20 record people should panic. They will take there lumps and are, I never thought quite like this of course. The offense IS going to get better, everyone is saying it but its true. I'm sure a few guys will continue to stink but Chavez and other guys will improve. They had a bad East Coast trip last May as well, IRC the Yankees swept the Big 3 and got on a roll, pretty much exactly like this year.

I'm in favor of letting Street go at it at closer, or sharing duties with Dotel. Trade Dotel for sure by mid-season. Call up Johnson sometime soon if the slumps continue, Hatteberg is a great guy and actually one of the few guys NOT hitting well below average but hes barely a serviceable 1B compared to the rest of the league. Let Johnson get his chance. I'm not in favor of radical moves, just to make waves. It was needed in 02' but this team isn't a legit contender like in 02' either...we should be above .500 this year yes, the talent is there even though some A's fans now think we are the worst team in the league(puh-lease!).

Things will get better, I'm in favor of a couple minor changes now/very soon but nothing drastic....its a looooong season people.

I do think it would be kind of neat to get Giambi if he clears waivers(obviously) at a veterans minimum but I can't see that happening barring an injury to Durazo or maybe if hes traded. Giambis upside is still there, a change of scenery could do him wonders.

Whatever Jose Canseco says must be true

by WiscoFan on May 11, 2005 6:30 PM PDT reply actions

I hope that Dotel is okay.

I know I'm just repeating myself, but he looks so different.

So if this loss of velocity and no slider thing continues, do you think BB would trade him sooner than he MAY have planned? It would be horrible if Dotel blows up AND we can't get anything in return for him.

But at this point, the injuries seem to be piling up and trading anyone from the bullpen seems unlikely. They need Calero back healthy. As soon as possible.

I'm not as down on this loss as last night, but that's only b/c I didn't watch the last few innings. Billy says to be patient...I don't know what else to do.

I'm waiting for a win streak. Am I crazy?

by Sharon on May 11, 2005 6:35 PM PDT reply actions

Another thing I'd like to see...

I'm a bit confused, first of all, as to why Cruz isn't seeing more action. He has a great arm, our bullpen is suddenly depleted w/o Calero or Bradford, and Cruz hasn't pitched enough to establish himself as a failure or success.

One way to see where Cruz is would be to slot him the next two Saarloos starts to pitch 6-7 or 6-7-8 (whatever his perceived stamina is at this point), so that instead of a "5-inning pitcher" you have a 7-inning or 8-inning pitcher(s) in the #5 spot.

Kills two birds with one stone, and this team is hurting way too badly right now to have Melhuse, Ginter, and Cruz--all with appreciable talents in current "problem areas" for us--sitting as much as they are.

Nico

by Nico on May 11, 2005 6:56 PM PDT reply actions

you're asking a bunch of people

who considered cruz a complete failure after about six innings...

sure his era has dropped from 16.20 to 8.44, but hopefully the a's don't use cruz because eventually he'll give up a run in an important situation and then we'll have yet another "behead cruz" diary on AN...

by xbhaskarx on May 11, 2005 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions

I agree with xbhaskarx

-- can I call you xbh? It makes sense to keep Cruz out of close games until he gets his confidence back.

There was one poster recently that was so enthused about Cruz that he said we should make him the closer. Do that, and then THERE'S a sure-fire way to make us beg Rhodes to come back.

by Checkswing HR on May 12, 2005 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions

xbh? call me xbx if you want to

or the part between the two x's.

by xbhaskarx on May 12, 2005 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions

and more importantly

i do think the a's should use cruz more, even in close games. i was being sarcastic.

by xbhaskarx on May 12, 2005 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions

In that case, I agree with nobody

'cause Cruz has looked better recently, but he still looks deer-in-the-headlights scared. And we really could use a win right now after losing 8 of 9.

by Checkswing HR on May 12, 2005 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions

I think Cruz will

He's the next logical person to put in Calero's position--the guy who misses bats and has some track record. Huston gets the next chance if he can't do it.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on May 11, 2005 7:04 PM PDT reply actions

Eckstein had a great game tonight -for the

Cardinals - and the Angels blogs are claiming he was the spark for their offense- hence their problems. Seattle is happy they are one game ahead of last years Titanic season pace. Texas - well Texas is Texas they have been run over by the Indians and the Tigers.
All flawed teams and all stumbling together. Whoever makes the smart moves first can pull away.

Boston Blogs are roasting Foulke - highest ERA of any regular closer. The A's can feel good about pinning blown saves on Rivera and Foulke.

My positive thoughts for the day.

by Carerra on May 11, 2005 8:41 PM PDT reply actions

And K-Rod--

blown save (and a loss).

Nico

by Nico on May 11, 2005 9:16 PM PDT reply actions

sweet

how can this pathetically hitting team pin 3 blown saves on the 3 biggest premier closers in the league....Rivera, Foulke, KRod.....and not beat Kevin Brown outta the game by the third inning?!

JJH

by flatcoat on May 11, 2005 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions

last in Bat Avg, Slug Avg, OPS & runs scored

Wow, I knew things were real bad hitting wise, but we are literally last in the Majors (not American but Majors) in 1. batting average, 2. Slugging average, 3. runs scored, and 4. OPS. Remembering that the pitcher bats in the NL, this is really something. The only hitting summary category we are not last in is on base %, where we are 25 out of 30. (stats from MLB.com)

I knew the results were really bad hitting wise, but this is pathetic.

Good news is we're only 5 games out of first.

More good news is the pitching is average, despite all the youngsters, Zito's poor start, and the hapless Dotel. Further good news is, as Blez says, the West is Worst. Furthermore, with the youth and the career stats of our vets, logic suggests the remaining 80% of the season has got to be better.

I'm retiring with a bottle of wine, but Go A's!

by alamedaman on May 11, 2005 10:38 PM PDT reply actions

the A's need to be the underdogs to win

Okay, here's my totally irrational post. No data. But in the Beane era, the A's have always been at their best when everyone else thinks they don't have a chance. That's why the season starts with hope, which they quickly crush, and then when they seem to be out of it, they pull some miracle out of theit butts like 20-in-a-row. Then when they play a better team, they smack them down 2-0, only to crumble under the expectations. When they play a worse team (e.g. Twins), they just mess up throughout.

Conclusion? The A's will stink it up a little bit more until everyone's written them off, and then they will start tearing it up. Then they'll probably find some crazy way to break our hearts, like having our pitchers throw two no-hitters, but lose them both.

It's just the fatigue talking now...

by Apricot on May 11, 2005 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions

Late night musings

Street shouldn't close. He's a very important part of the A's long-term future, and needs to be brought along carefully. Less than a year out of college, Street needs to build up arm strength and confidence. That won't happen if he's the closer.
Dotel is Billy Koch of 2002, with less velocity and more movement. That's not terrible, and we will just have to live with the ups and downs. I'd certainly consider trading him if we get the right offer and are out of contention, but not so Street can close.
We would be downright giddy today if the A's had pulled off a victory. The ninth inning comeback, the Byrnes home run, the ineptitude of our division rivals. It didn't happen, but things aren't that much different. I expected to be swept in Boston; I just wasn't expecting it to be so agonizing.
diskus is right. Beane can't make any moves yet, other than bringing up someone from Sacramento, because he doesn't know if he's a buyer or seller. It's too soon to say. For the time being, we're just going to have to do the best we can and hope some of our slumping hitters come out of it. There may be come a time when Dotel and Byrnes should be traded, Hatteberg should be benched in favor of Johnson, et cetera. But we're not at that point yet.

by bear88 on May 12, 2005 12:28 AM PDT reply actions

Sobering

goes to pancakes house

by ak_A on May 12, 2005 7:25 AM PDT up reply actions

I agree with you

by OaklandSi on May 12, 2005 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Do something BB

I believe change is good, it often times provides a spark to a team, agree with those suggesting we see Cruz pitch more, let's find out what we have if anything. I would love to see Johnson called up but BB made it pretty clear today that won't happen. His reasoning is sound, Johnson can only replace Durazo or Hatte and he won't do that. Why Thomas is still on the club is beyond me.

by china bob on May 12, 2005 3:22 AM PDT reply actions

Here's a conspiracy theory for you

The steroids testing on the East Coast, because of the famous East Coast Bias, is much more lax than on the West Coast. Weren't we all promised that more suspensions would start coming out of the Florida testings? Where are they? So far we've had a handful of Central Division teams' players test positive (Juan Rincon, Cards prospect, Pirates prospects, Alex Sanchez who was with the Tigers when he tested positive). I find it difficult to believe that players in the Nationals, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Orioles, etc organizations are morally superior to the rest of the league. Especially with all the trades and free agents that have players changing teams.

by OaktownTribesman on May 12, 2005 6:11 AM PDT reply actions

No conspiracy

Jason Giambi gobbled the entire East Coast supply of steroids.

by green star oakland on May 12, 2005 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions

Nice!

At least we're not as bad as the Mariners...yet.

by McFood on May 12, 2005 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions

This team remains consistently on pace

... to match the 54-108 1979 A's in total runs.

1979 A's 573 runs

2005 A's 120 runs in 34 games (3.53. per game = 572 for a full season)

by HerbWashington on May 12, 2005 9:08 AM PDT reply actions

And what's so bad about that?

in 26 years, we can start a new thread titled, "2005 A's"? Oughta be good for a nostalgia trip or two.

"Put a Milo on him."
-Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on May 12, 2005 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions

1979

Herb I was at 35 of those games in '79 you don't want to got there in 2005, absolutely the worst team in history of A's franchise.
Joe Wallis "Tarzan" ( along with Dwayne Murphy) never saw a fly he couldn't misplay.
Larry Murray. RF. Can't remember to tag up on fly ball to deep center.
Miguel Dilone.LF Attacked Manager Jim Marshall with bat ...exiled to Cleveland.
Jeff Newman C, only allstar in '79, hit 21 homeruns before break , one afterwards. Ouch
Wayne Gross. 3B. Participated in only triple play that year for A's against Baltimore.
Rob Picciolo SS. Now 3B coach of the Padres. Looks like he could still play.
Mickey Klutts DH. Hit HR off Guidry to beat Yankees 1-0. Gotta love the name
Glenn Burke OF, finally came out of the closet after he retired. Honest.
Jim Essian C. hit inside the park HR when Toronto OF ran into LF fence and knocked himself out, it was a Grand Slam!

Mitchell Page LF. Best player on the team. St Lo hitting coach today
Pitching staff sucked and bullpen wasn't much either.
No one came to games and we are headed the same direction if changes aren't made

Morada Mudshark

by Morada Mudshark on May 12, 2005 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Dwayne Murphy

That is Murphy was CF , he was one of the best we ever had.

Morada Mudshark

by Morada Mudshark on May 12, 2005 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions

What's the story of this intolerance?

I assume it goes beyond being intolerant of dead players - that's kind of reasonable, actually.

I just needed something new here, since the season had started ...

by devo on May 13, 2005 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions

He was gay

and out of the closet. He died in 1995 at age 42.

However, I don't think intolerance of gays was the only reason for his failure to put together an All-Star career. I think a .561 career OPS might have something to do with that, too.

"Put a Milo on him."
-Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on May 13, 2005 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions

General Comment:

I have to say that, after an ugly week - well a week that really sucked, actually - and another ugly east coast road-trip...

We're all down, frustrated, and not really sure what we can do. But that's the point and the joy I get from this site. What brings us all here is that we do care. We want to do Something to help. We're full of ideas, comments, suggestions, whatever. (Of course, some would say we're all full of shNYt. ;-)) We're pretty much all here to share with each other and support each other as we collectively try to support our team.

And I'm also impressed by the lack of sniping, bitching, or general whinning... good job all!

So... thanks to everyone for helping get ME out of my week-long funk. Now what can we do to help get our team out of THEIR funk????

A thousand Thank You's from the staff at the Athletics Nation embassy in Manama, Bahrain.

"Holy Manama!" ~Bahrain, 5,000+ miles east of Toledo :-)~

by NomAd on May 12, 2005 10:56 AM PDT reply actions

Damn good post.

by Checkswing HR on May 12, 2005 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Just Say No To Jason G.

As I wrote on another thread, I don't know how those of you who cheered on the A's Canseco-McGwire "dynasty" feel in retrospect know that we are virtually certain both sluggers used steroids, but I feel ripped off for following that team so ardently. Without chemical enhancements, Canseco might not have even made it to the majors and McGwire certainly won't have hit nearly as many dingers. What phonies!

And those who would like a return of Jason G. might consider the following: if you are contemptuous of those Gnat fans who continue to support Bariods, how can you justify a return to the A's of another phony who used chemicals to become a multimillionaire success in MLB rather than by honing his talent?

In sum, if the A's required Giambi, I'd seriously consider ceasing my following of my hometown team. Steroids have made a mockery of a great game and those guilty of using said chemical enhancements should play no further role in MLB. 'Course it's more than a little unlikely that the millionaire club known as the players' union would ever consider expunging known cheaters from its ranks...

by reztips on May 12, 2005 11:19 AM PDT reply actions

legalize roids?

One of my friends last night said we should legalize steroids. Either people will have the presence of mind to NOT use them, since they're dangerous, or everyone will start using and the playing field (excuse the pun) will be leveled.

I don't agree with this, but what does everyone else think?

"I don't know what I was saying, but it was badass" - Josh Homme

by LoveThemAs on May 12, 2005 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Gosh.

That's just beyond stupid. It's like fighting fire with fire. With all the health risks of injecting your body with hormones aside... Ugh. I'm not educated enough on steriods to really say much more, but it's just a bad, bad idea.

by Melody on May 12, 2005 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Not taking a side here, but

I knew Jason G. when he was a single-A player fresh out of college and in 1992 he had tremendous hitting skills in a drug-free body. What he did after that, and where he is today, are separate issues.

Nico

by Nico on May 12, 2005 12:56 PM PDT reply actions

SF ticket question

I just got a pair of tickets from work to see the A's v. Giants game in SF in sec FC113 row O. does anyone where these are? i think its row O (letter) but i was kinda hoping they made a row 0 (#).

Let's Go A's! Let's sign Rickey!

by AllThingsOakland on May 12, 2005 1:39 PM PDT reply actions

Awesome Seats

Right behind (slightly to the right of) home plate, row 15. The rows over there are "lettered" and not numbered.

by migueltejada on May 12, 2005 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions

thanks

Let's Go A's! Let's sign Rickey!

by AllThingsOakland on May 12, 2005 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions

again, HUFF, HUFF, HUFF!!!

why aren't people eager to trade for Aubrey Huff? I've been saying it for a week now...

he's good: .307/.364/.542/.888 over the last three years

he's cheap: $4.75 million in 2005 and $6.75 million in 2006

he's young: 28

he's durable: 600+ ABs in ech of the last two years

he's in the AL

he's a slow starter, so current numbers are not a concern

he can hit LHPs (.311/.357/.482/.839) even though he's a lefty

c'mon...sweeney, sanders and Kearns don't even compare. if there is ANY way that the A's can get him by giving up a combination of Dotel, Byrnes, middle infielders and prospects, they should absolutely do it.

These aren't the droids you're looking for...move along

by Mark Brinda on May 12, 2005 2:06 PM PDT reply actions

He's been a subject of discussion here

He's A's Eh's first love :)

Seriously though, he's a really good hitter, and if we picked him up he can play left field till the end of the season. He's versatile and can play LF, 3B, and 1B.

I bet it would take Dan Johnson to get him though. Probably Dan Johnson, Marco Scutaro and a prospect would get it done. I wouldn't want to trade Hatteberg to them because i would feel bad for Hatty.

My last signature was bad luck, since the A's have sucked so far. I needed to shake things up. Flagggablaggaggabagg (try and say this fast)

by ohad on May 12, 2005 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions

mentioned, mabey

but nowhere near as much as Sweeney, Kearns and Sanders (although the discussion of Sanders is justified by the rumors.) I'd like to see some high profile discussion of Huff (Blez?!?)

I think that a three-team deal is the most likely way that we'd get Huff. Send Dotel, Ginter/Scoot/Ellis and Byrnes to a team like the Cubs (need a closer, MI help and a good bat against lefties and have a boatload of money) and then get that team to give up prospects to the D-rays.

These aren't the droids you're looking for...move along

by Mark Brinda on May 12, 2005 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Great Idea

Considering he can play and has played at 1st, 3rd, and OF.

I hadnt thought of that but i really like this. I'd be greedy though and try and get Jesus Coloume as well.

by Pucking Insane on May 12, 2005 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions

Why?

What would Jesus do?

:)

At least we're not as bad as the Mariners...yet.

by McFood on May 13, 2005 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions

The only problem with Huff

Isn't really a problem with Huff, but that according to Peter Gammons he's drawn interest from the Red Sox, Cubs, and Nationals. Now we have a much better farm system then any of those clubs, but the more bidders the higher the price and the price might get so high that it isn't worth it. Otherwise it's a great idea.

Here's the link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=2051224

Jonathon

"This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Lets's not bicker and argue about who killed who.... "

by JLeverenz on May 12, 2005 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Angels news

just fyi

Escobar on DL

http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20050512&c ontent_id=1047720&vkey=pr_ana&fext=.jsp&c_id=ana

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on May 12, 2005 2:20 PM PDT reply actions

We lost our SS, right fielder, and setup man

and I was wondering, why doesn't our main rival get at least one injury?

There's my answer! Down goes the #2 starter.

by Checkswing HR on May 12, 2005 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Funny thing

before the season start a local paper (outside the US) had a baseball article where it referred to the AL West as the weakest division in the league. At the time I bristled at what I considered an uninformed analysis.

They were right!

by OaklandSi on May 12, 2005 2:25 PM PDT reply actions

But...

I bet they didnt know WHY they were right.Just like many 'pundits' who predicted a bad season for the A's.
An important distinction in my mind, especially when these jerks start coming around saying "heh,heh told ya so". Nobody predicted the A's would have good pitching and COLOSSALLY ABYSMAL hitting. Anyway, I dont think the al west is "terrible" or whatever.

When I cant taste my beer it feels like the center of the solar system has collapsed - Jack

by BootyBall05 on May 12, 2005 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions

I still think they don't know the AL west

especially since they spent most of their article on (no surprise) the AL east. I was remembering how indignant I got reading the article -- it is just ironic how our division appears to be the weakest in the league so far this season.

by OaklandSi on May 13, 2005 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions

Aubrey Huff and Carlos Lee

Sure we tack on several million in salary... But we offset some of that by dumping our iffy players. Send Byrnes and prospects (Robnett? Ethier?) to Milwaukee for Lee, send DJ and pitching prospects (Rheinecker? Windsor? Knox?) to Tampa Bay for Huff. We won't need DJ if we re-sign Huff. Hatty remains as pinch hitter (since nobody will take him anyway). Dump Durazo, Ginter, and Dotel for middle relief, replace them with Jack Cust, Mike Rouse, and Jairo Garcia. Kielty DHing. Our lineup would look like:

Kendall C
Kotsay CF
Lee LF
Huff 1B
Chavez 3B
Crosby SS
Kielty DH
Ellis 2B
Swisher RF

by OaktownTribesman on May 12, 2005 3:42 PM PDT reply actions

I like those ideas

Lee has an option for next year at 8.5 million, so we would have him for next year as well. I think Byrnes, Mabeus and Landon Powell would do the trick. Then to get huff: I'd say Dan Johnson and Rheinecker and Keith Ginter would do it for Huff and a prospect. Trade Durazo for prospects. Keep Dotel.

Kotsay
Kendall
Huff (1B)
Lee (LF)
Chavez
Crosby
Kielty (DH)
Swisher RF)
Scutaro/Ellis

Bench: Charles Thomas, Jermaine Clark, Adam Melhuse, Scutaro/Ellis, Jack Cust.

My last signature was bad luck, since the A's have sucked so far. I needed to shake things up. Flagggablaggaggabagg (try and say this fast)

by ohad on May 12, 2005 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions

Mabeus and Powell

Those guys have zero trade value right now. Relievers stuck in AAA like Mabeus are a dime a dozen, and Powell just had a serious injury. Unfortunately, not everybody likes our prospects as much as we do, so it's tough to sell them even when they're not hurt or not stuck in AAAA purgatory.

If you want to pry Lee, I'd suggest a more enticing package of Byrnes (web gems + hustle = nationally overrated), Ethier (selling high), and a token low minors fireballer. The reason we can part with Ethier is that we have Danny Putnam, who I believe will be our LF of the future. We already have Kotsay whom Beane will try to re-sign, and Swisher of course. We even have raw high ceiling guys like Robnett and Herrera just in case.

by OaktownTribesman on May 12, 2005 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Good point about Mabeus

But i think they would take Powell. He is coming off a serious injury, but they have two more years before Damian Miller is a free agent (after this year) and they have time to wait and figure him out. He's a good enough prospect to take that risk.

My last signature was bad luck, since the A's have sucked so far. I needed to shake things up. Flagggablaggaggabagg (try and say this fast)

by ohad on May 13, 2005 5:17 AM PDT up reply actions

BB might be waiting for the answer to a question

before pulling the trigger on a deal, BB would prefer to know if and by how much payroll is going to be allowed to increase.

And whether you/we like it or not, Wolff is thinking every day about how to maximize the value of his franchise through a move and/or a new stadium. until there is some clarity around whether or not the a's will a) stay in the coliseum b) get a new ballpark in oakland or c) move to Vegas, San Ho, Portland or somewhere else, Wolff can't have any idea what future revenues are going to be.

If BB thinks that Wolff will soon be able to tell him what future revenues are likely to be in 2007 and beyond (because Wolff is close to figuring out where the A's will be playing) then BB ought to wait before making a trade.

It would suck to trade for someone cheap just to keep payroll down and then have Wolff say, "we're movin to Vegas in '07, so spend away!"

If the answer is near, BB could be waiting for it. Just a thought...

These aren't the droids you're looking for...move along

by Mark Brinda on May 12, 2005 4:39 PM PDT reply actions