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Around SBN: Celtics Seething Over Embarrassing Loss

2011 Retrospective: Were we as bad as our record showed?

I'm in your dugout, stealin' your winz

Some things I've heard from some A's fans about 2011 go something like this:

"Man, if we only had Bob Melvin for the entire season... then we would have gone somewhere!! Stupid Geren."

"If Jemile Weeks, Hideki Matsui, and Scott Sizemore had played since Opening Day, we could have totally given Texas a run for their money."

"That losing streak really killed us. Without it, we would have been a .500 team at least."

This post is intended to explore similar scenarios using Pythagorean winning percentage.

Star-divide

For the uninitiated, yes, the Pythagorean Theorem actually does have a related use outside of high school algebra! Adapted for baseball use by BIll James, the general formula is as follows:

Winning percentage = (RS)2/((RA)2 + (RS)2)

where RS = runs scored and RA = runs allowed

(A more modern interpretation of it uses 1.83 as the exponent, which is what I will use here.)

The most important thing to keep in mind here is that Pythagorean winning percentage may, or may not, have any bearing on a team's actual winning percentage in any one season. The point of using this formula, then, is to try and keep luck out of the equation as much as possible and to get as close to a team's "true" wins as possible based on their talent.*

So, how do the A's fair using this formula for the 2011 season? Well, over the entire season, the A's scored 645 runs and allowed 679. Plugging that into the Pythagorean win formula yields the following:

2011 Pythag = (645)1.83/((645)1.83 + (679)1.83)) = .477

which, multiplied by 162, yields about 77 wins. As it happens, this formula also tends to regress to the mean, meaning that bad teams will appear less bad by Pythagorean winning percentage.

Now, given that run differentials in each game are easily calculated, is there any way to slice the 2011 season such that any of the initial ideas might be true? Were the A's that bad, or just unlucky and maybe good?

Results:

Let's first try and calculate the Pythag for the Melvin era:

First Game 6/9

422 RS, 441 RA

Pythag = .48

Pythag WL = 47-52

Actual record 47-52

Another way to slice it might be to give the team a mulligan. That is, we can eliminate the team's worst losses (and, to be fair, the team's most lopsided wins.) A simple cutoff point is double-digit run differentials. As it happens, there were 5 games where the A's won or lost by 10 or more runs, so let's just eliminate those:

157 games

599 RS, 624 RA

Pythag = .48

Pythag WL = 75-82

Actual record in that scenario = 72-85

As A's fans suffered through, there was a horrendous point from 5/30 to 6/14, where the A's only won one game. What if we simply pretend that those games didn't happen?

148 games

597 RS, 597 RA

Pythag = .500

Pythag WL = 74-74

Actual record in that scenario = 73-75

It should be noted, however, that the latter two scenarios involve cherry-picking, which is something that as informed baseball fans, we should be leery of doing. Indeed, especially in the no streak scenario, it would be inappropriate to assume that the A's would not have lost somewhere else in there given a 148 game season.

Conclusions:

Unequivocally, the A's were indeed that bad. Neither Melvin's actual, nor Pythagorean winning percentage tells us that the A's were simply unlucky. In eliminating the outliers, even that does not show that the A's were significantly better than their record indicated. Finally, while eliminating the losing streak and surrounding losses provide for a better record, that's not really a fair representation of the A's as a team. Indeed, given the under .500 record of the team itself, it would be unwise to think that those losses were simply more than would be expected. It is considerably more likely that those losses were simply clumped in one place due to chance.


*Baseball Prospectus attempts to take this further by calculating 2nd and 3rd order wins, which uses expected runs instead of actual runs and adjusts for strength of schedule, respectively. Technically, these are more precise than Pythagorean winning percentage, but are not used in this discussion

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Big ups

What a great article. Kudos man.

Shall I call you 'Logan', Weapon X?

by Juicy_Couture_39 on Feb 7, 2012 7:53 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

Good work

The A’s accumulated about 30 fWAR (11.8 for batters/fielders, 18.6 for pitchers) and 26 bWAR (-3.1 for batters/fielders, 28.8 for pitchers). My own calculation of replacement level indicates a 0 WAR team would win about 45-48 games, so the A’s should have won somewhere between 72 and 78 games depending on which combination of those numbers you use.

by DanHennessey31 on Feb 7, 2012 8:03 AM PST reply actions  

The A's Just Weren't Good

And that 10-game losing streak (in fact, the whole span from May 30 to June 14) really hurt us and our record.
Do I think having Melvin for the whole year would have made a difference? Yes, but not a drastic one because the team just wasn’t very talented. However, I disagree that having Weeks for the whole season really would’ve helped; it might have been too early for him and he might’ve bombed in his rookie campaign. Sizemore is a more complicated case; how good is he?
One thing i would like to bring up (though it may not be totally related) is, in “Moneyball”, Lewis writes about a formula that Paul DePodesta used to evaluate how efficient each A’s hitter was in 2002; he looked at how may runs the team would score with 9 perfect replicas of a certain hitter, e.g. 9 Scott Hattebergs would produce 940-950 runs in a season. Does anyone know how this formula works, whether it’s good or not and what the result for some of the 2011 A’s hitters might have been?
Anyway, nice writeup.

by Sean Fortuna on Feb 7, 2012 8:29 AM PST reply actions  

That losing streak

was major blow to team confidence and season. Not certain, but didn’t defense turn disastrous following Ellis trade? Sizemore/Penny/Weeks were horribly non-A’s quality thereafter. Hopefully a full ST will turn IF defense to strength.

by Slip n Slide on Feb 7, 2012 9:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Well,

Defense was disastrous the whole season long, but after the departure of Ellis, there was drop in defense at 2nd.

by Sean Fortuna on Feb 7, 2012 9:49 AM PST up reply actions  

I feel terrible saying "that bad"

More like “not good”.

But I didn’t need to look macro stats like this to figure out the A’s situation.

All you had to do was notice how few scoring opportunities they had. How many times did they even get a runner into scoring position?

Spotty pitching and bad batting. That’s a killer combination.

I know people didn’t like Geren. I didn’t either. But even a great manager couldn’t have pulled the As out of all the bad jam-ups that we credit Geren for blowing.

Let me make it even simpler. Remember the jokes about the As fielding a lineup of Rivercats? It was true. And if it happens again, the As will face a similar fate this year.

It’s a downward spiral. Now where’s that stadium?

by 4-6-3 on Feb 7, 2012 9:13 AM PST reply actions  

I think it's the best part of this article, myself

"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer
Co-host of @TarpTalk, an Oakland A's podcast: tarptalkpodcast.wordpress.com

by cuppingmaster on Feb 7, 2012 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

I notice that Bob has better spelling than a cat.

If he were a cat he would have said “I’z” and “ur”.

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Feb 7, 2012 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Spotty Pitching

Or just plain inconsistent. Take a look at these splits:

Gio Gonzalez:
Pre All-Star: 8-6, 2.47, 111 K’s in 113.0 IP (18 games)
Post All-Star: 8-6, 3.94, 86 K’s 89.0 IP (14 games)

Trevor Cahill:
Pre All-Star: 8-7, 3.12, 91 K’s in 127.0 IP (20 games)
Post All-Star: 4-7, 5.80, 56 K’s in 80.2 IP (14 games)

Guillermo Moscoso:
Pre All-Star: 3-4, 2.16, 27 K’s in 50.0 IP (10 games, 8 starts)
Post All-Star: 5-6, 4.15, 47 k’s in 78.0 IP (13 games)

Craig Breslow:
Pre All-Star: 0-2, 3.06, 26 K’s in 32.1 IP (38 games)
Post All-Star: 0-0, 4.67, 18 K’s in 27.0 IP (29 games)

Of course, I couldn’t put down many people’s splits because most everyone didn’t pitch evenly in both halves; Anderson and Braden were injured, Outman and Ross also got injured…

by Sean Fortuna on Feb 7, 2012 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Curious about something...

The pitching hasn’t always gone to shit in the second half, but it seems the A’s hitting has always sucked during the first three months of the season, every year for the past decade. Wonder why that is.

by richwol1 on Feb 7, 2012 12:12 PM PST up reply actions  

This is basically what I was getting at
I know people didn’t like Geren. I didn’t either. But even a great manager couldn’t have pulled the As out of all the bad jam-ups that we credit Geren for blowing.

No matter how you slice it, the A’s were a bad team in 2011

"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer
Co-host of @TarpTalk, an Oakland A's podcast: tarptalkpodcast.wordpress.com

by cuppingmaster on Feb 7, 2012 10:33 AM PST up reply actions  

What happens if we slice it without Fuentes?

Of all the 2011 horrors (and really, it could have been worse – a little, anyway), those first half losses were the bottom for me. Well, that and how sad the continuing decline of Wuertz was, since he had been such a thrilling pitcher before burnout.

by paris7 on Feb 7, 2012 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for taking away our scapegoat

There you go again with your logic and evidence.

by Billy Frijoles on Feb 7, 2012 9:51 AM PST reply actions  

It was a great article. Still, Man...

… if we only had Bob Melvin for the entire season… then we would have gone somewhere!! Stupid Geren hates us.

by paris7 on Feb 7, 2012 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Anyone Else...

actually looking forward to this season?

Now that football is over (well it was over two weeks ago for me but the hype machine wouldn’t let it die) we can focus on baseball.
I have mixed feelings about this season moving forward. I think it will be an interesting season right off the bat (pun intended). As for most patch work teams, Spring Training will offer us an opportunity to see who really asserts themselves and wins a starting job. I know that the season is not lost, but it’s safe to say for now, that Spring Training is going to be the most exciting part of the season.
I’m interested to see how Carter and Taylor respond to the immense amount of competition thrown their way. Also I’m excited to see who will win starting rotation spots and how the bullpen will pan out. I know that Spring Training is not the best evaluative tool, but in our case it’s the one we are going to use to determine who goes where!

Byron

by DoomandGloom on Feb 7, 2012 11:05 AM PST reply actions  

Kinda, yeah...

I think there are a lot of pieces to the puzzle that could be interesting and fun to watch.

by RickeySteals on Feb 7, 2012 11:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Huh, I just realized

that I actually still don’t know who won the Super Bowl.

Don’t spoil it for me, though. I’m curious how long I can make it before it gets mentioned somewhere.

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Feb 7, 2012 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, I heard that on Thursday.

Last time I paid much attention to NFL was 1999 (not coincidentally the same year I started paying attention to the A’s). Back then the Patriots were not a hated over-dog team.

In the 1980s and 1990s I always rooted for the AFC, and they almost always got creamed by the NFC. I remember one Super Bowl when the Patriots made it. Their QB was Tony Eason. They lost by about 40 points. I can’t remember which NFC team it was then. Maybe the 49ers? The 49ers were good then.

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Feb 7, 2012 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Da Bears

That was the season the Bears went 15-1 (only loss in Miami to Marino’s Dolphins) with the most successful version of Buddy Ryan’s 46 defense.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Feb 8, 2012 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I wish I also didn't know.

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

bad teams probably are more prone to long losing streaks

take for example the last place AL West team in 2011, the Mariners. They had an epic losing streak that was much longer than the third place A’s.

by OaklandSi on Feb 7, 2012 11:19 AM PST reply actions  

me too. those guys are years away from age-related decline

Also, it’s probably a signal that there is movement on the stadium.

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Feb 7, 2012 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Kind of crazy to think he would be here from 1997 to 2019

That is a long time. I think he is the longest holding GM with 1 team in the AL already, so this will make it even longer. Lets hope some of Billy’s best work is ahead of him!

by JJ209 on Feb 7, 2012 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

He is.

And he’s the 2nd longest tenured GM in baseball behind Sabean, by one year. Perhaps Bay Area sports fans aren’t as bloodthirsty when losing seasons come around.

by Furyan on Feb 7, 2012 8:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't read too much into it.

It could just as easily be a signal that Wolff and Fisher are about to sell and want to make sure Beane has a salary for the next eight years, even if he gets fired by the new ownership.

But it’s much more likely that this is just the obvious being stated: Beane isn’t going to be fired from an ownership of which he’s a part.

by rudirules on Feb 7, 2012 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

OT: TV Schedule is out

No real bizarreness, other than the Tokyo games aren’t listed. I’m sure that MLBN or ESPN will have those though.

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/schedule/broadcast/index.jsp?c_id=oak

by Dr Pez on Feb 7, 2012 2:23 PM PST reply actions  

I saw that recently too

It did leave me wondering as to who was going to show the Tokyo games. I was looking around and couldn’t find out. But like you said MLBN, ESPN, or maybe TBS will have it.

by JJ209 on Feb 7, 2012 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't imagine that they wouldn't want to capitalize on the season opener

And I doubt that they have anything better to show at 2 in the morning

by Furyan on Feb 7, 2012 9:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice work Alan

“Unequivocally, the A’s were indeed that bad”

I laughed.

Not just athletes, Athletics.

by Wiers103 on Feb 7, 2012 2:25 PM PST reply actions  

well done as always

And yes, they were that bad. Which is why I never bought into to the “retooling” argument. The farm system needed to be rebuilt, and hopefully these decisions come to fruition within the next 5 years

"Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down"

-Rick Astley

by PistolPete7556 on Feb 7, 2012 4:05 PM PST reply actions  

My take: First of all, I agree that even with Melvin all along the A's are still a mediocre team,

rather than a “good one”. Moreover, I think had the A’s gotten Melvin in for Opening Day, they still would have been about as bad as they actually were (with Geren/Melvin).

I think the damage was done in spring training. If the A’s had been under Melvin from the very beginning (start of camp), I think they would have been better prepared and played better (especially defensively) and would have won a few more games — all of which would still have rendered them mediocre due to mediocre talent, just “not as bad as they were”.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 7, 2012 4:29 PM PST reply actions  

You may tell yourself.....

this is not my below 500 team
Letting the losses go by, AN posting post game
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it….etc.

ack-A
Häägëñ Dääs

by ak_A on Feb 7, 2012 5:15 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree

as I’ve said on numerous occasions, I can deal with losing or .500 seasons. what I can’t abide is poor preparation, as evidenced by the horrid defense coming out of spring training, and lack of hustle and/or perceived lack of effort by the players. I expect both to improve under Melvin.

by OaklandSi on Feb 8, 2012 11:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Rajai

I missed Rajai last season. He made the team exciting and fun.

by Graybeard on Feb 7, 2012 9:15 PM PST reply actions  

!Yes!

Oh wait, this is not a meta thread.

by MobiusKlein on Feb 7, 2012 9:25 PM PST reply actions  

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