Creating A "Culture Of Winning": Savvy Or Naive?

We traded our best trade assets. If you look at WAR, Cahill and Bailey were not even close to our best players. McCarthey, Weeks, Braden and Anderson when healthy, Sizemore, and even Balfour are better than those guys. All three trades were excellent deals that didn’t make us that much worse for 2012.

The A’s have never picked that high in the Beane era, so it’s hard to say that they are cheaping out.

So Barton’s a clown? I think 2011 was disappointing, but I don’t think that because of that year you can write off Barton. He’s a young first baseman who’s decent defensively, draws walks and hits doubles and has some power potential. He has an excellent minor league track record, too.
As for the draft, while they rarely go for high cost players, if you look at their drafts since 2000, it sure ain’t bad. Here are the Number 1 Picks:

2000: Freddie Bynum (Played 4 years in majors; sucked)
2001: Bobby Crosby (We all know the story; 2004 ROY, fell apart. Now a utility infielder)
2002: Jeremy Brown (A player Beane coveted; got all of 10 at-bats)
2003: Omar Quintanilla (Still in majors, but lousy career)
2004: Landon Powell (Has battled 3 knee surgeries and liver disease to be Oakland’s backup catcher)
2005: Cliff Pennington (Oakland’s SS; not spectacular, but he’s set there and we could sure do worse)
2006: Trevor Cahill (Pitched well; shipped for three youngsters, including to prospect Jarrod Parker)
2007: James Simmons (In minors)
2008: Jemile Weeks (One of the A’s most exciting players; a promising future)
2009: Grant Green (Still a prospect, though I don’t know the deal with him; seems alright)
2010: Michael Choice (Power potential; one of our top prospects)
2011: Sonny Gray (Projects to be an excellent pitcher)

Not bad. And considering we also hooked guys like Joe Blanton, Mark Teahen, Nick Swisher, Brad Ziegler, Andre Ethier, Huston Street, Kurt Suzuki, Max Stassi, Andrew Bailey, Tyson Ross and others, it’s really been decent, considering how much of a gamble the draft is.

will show you charts, graphs, and projections and apologize for beane and show you a graph that shows in 2034 we should have 25.4653 WAR etc etc etc…..

without realizing that the a’s are in their current financial predicament because there is no team for fans to get behind, only players that have been treated like analytical data and will constantly be moved on a whim by Billy Beane and Company

The first series of moves were because we knew with the pieces we had, and our minor league system, that this team was not going to become a contender in the next couple of years.

The first series of moves was to lay the foundation for a contender. The next series of moves was to improve the big league club so that when the minor leaguers mature into big league players, we will have a contender.

You’re an A’s fan, yet don’t seem clear on the concept. I mean, i can understand casual fans of other teams completely not getting why the A’s, and teams like them, go into “perpetual rebuild mode.” But if you call yourself an A’s fan, and are serious enough of one to come here, how is it you don’t grasp the fact the team pretty much had to do that kind of thing?

Let’s play it out. If we just kept every player the fans “loved,” we’d be slightly better but not good enough, with a clear cliff coming up in the near future as their big buck contract years arrived.

The whole reality, until the new park comes (hello, Bud?) is that unless there is a clear window (Angels and Rangers effectively closed it and it’s really hard to argue that) to win now or soon, if you’re a low payroll team you really would be foolish not to use your current trade-able assets for quite possibly much more for the future. Sure, they don’t all pan out, sure. But…you know?

And really, while i’ll admit i defended Cahill against his biggest detractors, he really isn’t all that and Beane took advantage of his name recognition from his really good, many would say lucky 2nd season.

Gio we all love. But even he has some question marks related to control and all our pitchers are made to look perhaps a bit better than they are due to our park. We got FOUR highly rated prospects there.

Bailey is awesome when he’s healthy, but that’s been less and less, and he’s just a closer. Closers can be made fairly easily as history shows again and again.

People get stuck on names, both related to loving a guy as a fan, and in how they value him as a player. If there’s any team where you have to root for the laundry, we’re it (again, due to this unfair system in MLB and until we get our new park, hello Bud.)

Sure, at some point you’ve got to hold ‘em and go out to win a ring. But to be an A’s fan who is at all more than casual, how can one not be aware of all this, the process necessary under our circumstances?

It baffles me.

…of pointing out to folks like yourself that you’re unclear on the concept (see post above.) In essence you’re blaming the victim. You don’t seem to understand that if the A’s did things the way you propose they’d be the Pirates, Royals etc. Get it?

You seem to think if they just kept their players they’d get so many more fans (even though they still weren’t good enough to do any real damage,) yet attendance is only part of overall revenue and if you don’t win, which keeping your beloved doesn’t assure it doesn’t matter and you’re stuck with little to nothing when they leave via free agency, or they get hurt and their value is shot, etc etc etc.

No, you’ve simply got to flip guys when “they’re hot” for valuable assets that you then burst on the scene with, like us in the early 00s. All of this, but especially all of this when you have count them, not one, but two new “superpowers” in your own division, let alone two more in your own league in NY and Bos.

I don’t get it. Explain what part of this you’re not understanding? How can a serious A’s fan not be aware of all this?

Most people would agree that personal bankruptcy, while regrettable, is a potentially necessary step to get one’s financial house in order if it is in ruin. In baseball, the “bankrupt” team gets to re-evaluate its player portfolio, trade away whatever value they have for future prospects, and start over from scratch. It sucks, but it’s probably going to help in the long run.

Don’t confuse that, though, with “wanting to win everyday.” I, as a fan, am going to be to rooting for wins every game. I was just hoping for a younger crop of players to do that with.

Especially because you’ve hit on my main goal in writing, which isn’t to be “airtight” so much as to be an interesting, and hopefully thought-provoking, read.

He said that he wasn’t looking to sacrifice the future for a few more wins and I think this was last year when we were being picked to win the west. There were multiple trades out there, as witnessed by the Pence and Beltran trades, Beane could’ve made by sacrificing say Choice and Cahill + filler or Gio and Carter + filler. But, he didn’t he maintained his stance adding talent by surrendering Corey Brown, Vin Mazzaro, H-Rod, and Justin Marks. None, of which have the possibility of becoming a Cargo or Ethier or Cruz. I mean, the best piece out of this trade is still H-Rod and we have a ton of relievers who throw hard, but struggle with command. The jury’s still out on those trades, but this time we didn’t give up our top prospect for a 1 year rental and in Willingham’s case we got back 2 high picks and a year of a legit power hitter. In my eyes we won that one and the Dejesus trade we got another high pick and a slightly below average outfielder who played killer d in RF. I’d say right now that deal’s dead even, but if that pick becomes something of value that give’s Beane the edge again.

Don’t get me wrong actions speak louder than words, but for now his actions have being speaking loud and clear. Build for the future without. I’m not a Beane apologist, in fact I was one of the main one’s calling for his head when Cargo blew up and Geren was sacrificing win after win due to his being a bafoon. But, I have to give credit where credit is due.

He didnt try at all. He magically “lost” his giant step that he’s had his whole career and hit worse than he ever did. Then, once the trade talks started to heat up and the deadline drew closer, he started using the step again to pick up his numbers a bit. Then, when he got traded to the Cardinals, he had his step the whole time and he hit like a beast like he always has. He knew that he would get traded to a contender no matter how bad he did in Oakland so left no reason for Oakland to want him back. It sucked to lose Cargo but Holliday slacking caused us to get a very small package back (Brett Wallace who was eventually traded for Taylor who has yet to do anything in the pros). If Holliday would’ve tried the whole year and actually hit the way that he always had, we could’ve gotten back close to, if not more than, what we lost to get him

the ethier trade when the a’s finally made it to the ALCS that year…btw you can’t say we draft poorly then say weeks will be good only to be traded and same w ethier. we did draft those players.

i’m bored and wide awake from the coffee i had at 8pm…anyhoo

4 guys that the a’s kept since bob geren began manager (btw not sure if you know, but he was fired mid-season last year and is no longer w the club) are dallas braden, kurt suzuki, deric barton, and cliff pennington

you say they drafted poorly but you then you mention ethier and weeks as talent…cahill was drafted too and im sure you’re fuming over that trade as well so i included him, swisher is another guy who was dealt and i would think he’s a pretty good player, hudson zito & mulder were all drafted, mark tehen drafted, joe blanton drafted, andrew bailey was drafted, cliff pennington, kurt suzuki, mr. perfect dallas braden, etc…you get the point. so it looks like we’ve had our share of successful draft picks probably enough to debunk your point that the a’s draft poorly

moving on…you rant about getting rid of established players but then cite ethier as your example…he was actually a non-established prospect who we traded for an established switch hitter, milton bradley, and antonio perez, who was coming off of a season where he obp’d .360. the former played a vital role in getting the a’s to the alcs on a team full of players who came via trades involving established players and the signing of an aging vet. you don’t think danny haren and frank thomas didn’t help that team? you must’ve forgot how we acquired haren. i would probably not qualify danny haren as a “bag of peanuts” as you put it.
you then rant about getting rid of gio gonzalez and bailey…gio was acquired when we traded swisher to the white sox. does he qualify as “a bag of peanuts”?

what’s next…

no, i can’t imagine kc trading george brett after 3 years…
ok
umm…boston got matt clement at the end of a very mediocre to poor career so yes i can imagine that…
i can’t imagine finley dumping jackson…

larussa wouldn’t trade…wait a minute…who’s mcguire? oh you mean mcgwire…he wouldn’t trade mcgwire, canseco, or stewart after 2 years because 1) sandy alderson was the gm and 2) it wasn’t until schott and hoffman took over that the payroll was slashed and these guys were gone

are you sure you’ve been a fan since 1968? you don’t seem very informed…anyway

you seem to have anger towards this organization, which is understandable, but it’s a bit misplaced…

billy beane is making these decisions pretty much under the duress of financial constraint. you should direct your anger to ownership for not giving beane the money to play with. beane has shown to willingness to extend established players ie. offering giambi and damon contracts only to be outbid by bigger market teams. he has shown the willingness to go after big free agents ie. adrian beltre two years in a row, rafael furcal, lance berkman only to be turned down. he traded a highly touted prospect in carlos gonzalez to get matt holliday in order to compete for the west crown in a down year. is it his fault that chavez and harden among other key players went down with chronic injuries and pretty much rendered the a’s out of contention? there were many factors that played out that kept the a’s out of contention over the last 4-5 season and injuries were a big part of it.

it IS frustrating being a fan of a team that is not performing well…but if you claim to be a fan since 1968, at least understand what you’re upset about. i’m totally frustrated with this organization, but most of it has to do with the team across the bridge and winning the world series in 2010 despite being run by bafoons.

The economics of baseball drastically changed.

whatever it takes to sign him

and no

That dude is just not good.

Brandon League is really good, but I don’t really want to trade anyone for him.

for uehara

no

I feel like he would be better than Sogard or Rosales.