Manny Ramirez Officially Signs with Oakland A's
by Tyler Bleszinski on Feb 20, 2012 2:00 PM PST
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PrintIn the worst kept secret of the offseason, Manny officially confirmed signing with the A's to Pedro Gomez today. As for whether or not Manny is really a different person as Gomez claims in the video, I don't really care. To me this move makes sense in quite a few ways. First and foremost, it costs the A's nothing really other than $500 K which I think Lew Wolff burped up after his breakfast burrito this morning.
Second, Manny is suspended 50 games so the A's don't really have to make any decisions with him until then. If the A's find that Chris Carter or Brandon Allen or someone else can be a beast as a DH prior to then, then you just release Manny.
To me it's classic Billy Beane. You take a shot and if it works out then great, if not, you essentially have lost nothing except some spare Wolff change. And if the A's pitchers somehow prove to be much better than we think or Cespedes is a beast immediately and the offense is actually scoring runs and giving other teams a run for their money, well, then you're adding a piece on June 3 who has a career 500 plus home runs. I honestly don't expect the A's to compete in 2012. But with Cespedes and Manny in tow as well as some of the great young pitching coming through the system, the green and gold are infinitely more interesting, don't you think?
The other thing is maybe Manny can help teach Cespedes a few things or two about hitting. I mean if you're going to have a 26-year-old adjusting to life in the bigs, why not have him learn some things from arguably the greatest right-handed hitter of our generation? Let's just hope we don't wind up with Yoennis being Yoennis as a byproduct of that schooling.
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And reportedly zero incentives are involved. (via Susan Slusser on Twitter)
by kerryleehaas on Feb 20, 2012 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
"maybe Manny can help teach Cespedes a few things or two"
This is what I would be most worried about.
by kimo from kauai on Feb 20, 2012 7:42 PM PST up reply actions
"It's the old dope peddler,
spreading joy wherever he goes." -Tom Lehrer
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Feb 20, 2012 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sure glad to know that someone else remembers Tom Lehrer.
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
I can recite all the elements thanks to that man
Which always impresses 7th grade Science students quite a bit.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But since then
there are 15 more of which the new has come to Hah-vard. (Or 16 including lawrencium, the final actinide, which isn’t in the song but has been around since the 1960s.)
Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.
Those elements are DEAD to me.
Because they don’t fit the meter.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah, like praseodymium does.
Talk about forced.
Seriously though, there’s room to squeeze one more into the “sulfur californium” line which is padded out with “and also”. When I used to sing the song (even for an audience once!) I did that line as “There’s sulfur, californium, lawrencium, berkelium / and fermium, mend’levium, einsteinium, nobelium”.
Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.
What's hard for me everytime
is to pronounce “molybdenum” with a fast meter.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Even if Manny does end up hitting like Manny
what can you expect from him, realistically? 1-1.5 WAR? That’s about what he was worth in 2010 when he had an .870 OPS.
I do like the move as an insurance policy in case some combination of Allen/Carter/? doesn’t produce at DH. Solid move.
Not really all that excited about the move.
But for 500K there is no harm in signing him maybe he can still hit if not of well.
Rams Running Wild!
I'm so pissed the A's signed Manny
I hope he doesn’t make the team.
by athleticsperson01 on Feb 20, 2012 11:57 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
He can only help
They guy can coach our young hitters.
Yeah
On where to acquire banned substances and how to have a terrible attitude. This signing doesn’t pass the cost benefit analysis, even at the league minimum.
by athletics68 on Feb 20, 2012 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
Do you think he would've passed the physicial
by athleticsperson01 on Feb 20, 2012 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
I'm thinking he wouldn't he would have drugs in his system :P
by athleticsperson01 on Feb 20, 2012 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
Never can tell
He may have found the next undetectable designer super drug to fuel his “unretirement”.
by athletics68 on Feb 20, 2012 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
Let's hope so.
Kidding. I think. Actually, not sure.
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 20, 2012 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
Doesn't really matter either way
No drugs he’d take can fix that bad attitude of his… though there are drugs for it should he choose to take them.
They should make him take a hit of ectasy every day...
Kiper+Fosse=Mute
by CorpseOfChavez on Feb 20, 2012 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
June 6th
2B Jemile Weeks
1B Daric Barton
DH Manny Ramirez
CF Yoenis Cespedes
3B Scott Sizemore
RF Josh Reddick
LF Coco Crisp
C Kurt Suzuki
SS Cliff Pennington
Dude we have Jonny Gomes, remember
by athleticsperson01 on Feb 20, 2012 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Hopefully we don't by then
I would like Gomes to have a meteoric start, and then trade him for prospects to give Manny a shot.
One guy who makes absolutely no sense to me
In this offseason revolving door act is Gomes. Why did A’s decided he was worth $1MM, losing Adrian Cardenas for nothing and taking away at bats from everyone else is a mystery to me.
I love rebuilding.
by John of Gaunt on Feb 20, 2012 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
I am confused about that move.
Gomes seems to be not that good but good enough to take up a roster spot and block a young player.
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 20, 2012 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
He can crank it up against lefties
But that’s really a redundant skill on these A’s, it’s not like some timely pinch-hitting from Gomes will make much difference this season.
I love rebuilding.
by John of Gaunt on Feb 20, 2012 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah that move was a head scratcher after we acquired Smith and said he will not platoon
A platoon is the obvious place to give Gomes a roster spot. But without what can he do?
He is too bad defensively to be 4th OF. He hits to little to start at LF or DH. So he is a bench bat that gets the bench in trouble if these little nagging injuries come where you will not place the guy on 15-day DL but also he can not play.
Why would you bat Manny in front of Cespedes?
Why not use Manny to protect him a bit?
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
Some fans don't believe in protection
Which, of course, leads to more fans.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Feb 20, 2012 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Well played (LOL)
Cardenas!!!! WoooooooooooooHOOOOOOOOO
I don't mind having Chris Carter DH now!
by athleticsperson01 on Feb 20, 2012 11:59 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
He can, for the first 50 games
I am with you on that as well. Carter is the best hitting prospect we have (besides Choice, but Choice is farther away). Allen has had nearly a full season of ABs between AZ and OAK and has shown that he is mediocre. Carter has not had that chance.
GIVE VERNON A CHANCE.
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 20, 2012 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
To be honest, Magglio would have been better
A better role model that is.
by athleticsperson01 on Feb 20, 2012 12:02 PM PST reply actions
but not really better at anything else.
Also takes up a roster spot whereas we can just shelve manny for 50 games.
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 20, 2012 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
and Manny will probably shelve Manny
for another 20-30 games, anyhow. Just Manny being Manny.
Ha! This is great. How the mighty have fallen. I lived in Boston from 1997-2010, got to be there for the entire Manny era. He is a fucking nut case, but shit, he can hit, and he’s entertaining through and through. Minimal risk – yes. I don’t really get the Smith and Gomes deals at this point, but hindsight is 20/20. This is just another reason to actually turn on the TV/come out to the coliseum and watch this team this year.
Of course we’re going to have to build a latrine that can be accessed through a door the LF wall for Manny, but he’s worth the few extra bucks. And no, that’s not a reference to “The Help”….
I should also say
I happen to know Jack McCormick personally, and he harbors know ill will towards Manny over what happened back in 2008 – there are two sides to that story (though you ever only hear one in the media,) and he readily accepts his part in the altercation.
Magglio is less accomplished and more over the hill
I’ll take Manny for $500K
"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer
Co-host of @TarpTalk, an Oakland A's podcast: tarptalkpodcast.wordpress.com
by cuppingmaster on Feb 20, 2012 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
This TV cop also performs as a Yiddish crooner.
Wait, I thought you said Mandy for $500k.
FIRE ILIKEIKE
by ilikeike on Feb 20, 2012 5:44 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
This TV cop also performs as a Yiddish crooner.
Wait, I thought you said Mandy for $500k.
FIRE ILIKEIKE
by ilikeike on Feb 20, 2012 5:44 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'm sorry
The answer was ‘Inigo Montoya’
by As Fan in the Bronx on Feb 21, 2012 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
Magglio's done
Much happier to have Manny. Also, the 50 game suspension actually works in the A’s favor.
Also that it is a minor league deal.
I think Magglio still waits for a major deal.
Oh joy, the circus is coming to town
I hate this move because I hate Manny. He’s a douchebag on the same order as Bonds (just with less skill, worse results, and a bigger attitude). Don’t really care what skills he’s got left (after he’s done with his 50 game suspension for cheating of course), the Manny Being Manny bullshit coming to the A’s makes me sick.
That's a fair perspective.
But as a baseball move I don’t see it as a bad thing.
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 20, 2012 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
I think a lot of Manny's
Manny-isms got overplayed in the national media – especially after Boston’s meteoric rise to national prominence in 2004. He actually didn’t have the worst attitude by any means, and I can say that as a former Bostonian who followed him on a daily basis in the local media. Also, he has, or at least had, a tremendous work ethic. He was consistently among the first to arrive every day at the ballpark to work out and take extra hitting. I think there’s an off-field aspect to this signing as well, and it’s going to be overlooked by some in the fanbase and media who are jaded by the handful of negative situations that have surrounded him at times.
I remember him from before 2004 as well and on the Indians
And he was the same guy them with just less of the ESPN hyped stuff behind him. But he was still the same douchebag he’s been his whole career.
How so? What was particularly "douchey"
In your opinion?
by oakballnack on Feb 20, 2012 10:01 PM PST up reply actions
I'm trying to figure out what exactly people don't like about him
I mean I understand that sometimes he had a carefree, I don’t care what people think, body language.
But from what I can tell most teammates liked the guy. Of course everyone likes a teammate that can flat out rake.
To be honest what I disliked about him the most is that he had so many good games against us and he always appeared so arrogant after getting the big hit. But that’s a lot of ballplayers these days & no reason to blacklist him.
by Oaktown Shutout on Feb 21, 2012 7:43 AM PST up reply actions
That and his general arrogant attitude
His inability to wear a proper baseball uniform. His standing at the plate after he hits long fly balls that he thinks are gone (I hate all players who do that). His open disdain of fans. I’d go on but I’m getting mad just thinking about him…
Basically think of all the reasons we hate Bonds, and just insert ManRam for Barriod. They’re practically the same person, Manny’s just a righty with more hair and lower home run totals.
I'd summarize it thusly:
He comes across as a bit of a jerk. Add the the fact he cheated, got caught, and cheated again, and he’s not the easiest guy to love. But I’ll still love it if he hits .320/.400/.500. I expect, however, that he’ll hit more like a PED-free 40 year old who used to be great, which means chop 80 points off each of those numbers.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
PEDs and arrogance
That’s not enough to say I don’t want the guy on my team if he can produce.
I mean the A’s have a pretty storied PED history. So as a baseball fan it’s hard to hate every player that’s connected with PEDs.
As for arrogance, that’s something that for me was easy to hate for a guy on an opposing team, but I never mind seeing it on my team.
It’s not like the guy is violent or racist or something that would make me dislike him as a person.
by Oaktown Shutout on Feb 21, 2012 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
That's about where I am with it
My objections to the signing are mostly that I don’t think he probably has much left, and that I want to see Carter and Allen get one real shot (1/2 to full season).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
competition is inevitable
I think Billy is doing the right thing by not just handing the young guys jobs
I mean what if Carter and Allen both hit .200
What year was it with the rotation of AAAA Matt’s in the outfield, 2009, 2010? That was one year when Travis Buck started on opening day and at that time Travis had shown a lot more than Carter & Allen have to this point and we ended up with a big whole in the outfield. It was embarrising as a fan, and I’m actually glad that we have alternatives for the unproven guys.
At the same time I don’t want Billy to give up on the guys early (like he did with CarGo), but I have no problem with him rotating guys in and out until someone produces in a way that we can’t play without him (like Barton did in 2010)
by Oaktown Shutout on Feb 21, 2012 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
yeah, I just wish you could actually cite
an example of this “arrogance” and “disdain for fans” you’re talking about? Can you? Have you really watched the guy play? From people I know who used to go down to Red Sox camp at Fort Myers every year, they said he was one of the nicest and most accessible players to the fans there, gladly spending time each day to sign autographs etc. Barry Bonds was actually a jerk to the media and fans throughout his career. I don’t think Manny was ever a jerk to the media or fans unless he was provoked.
He was also known to have one of the best work ethics on the Red Sox.
by oakballnack on Feb 21, 2012 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
FWIW
The “have you really watched the guy?” is not a great question to ask, most of the people here are the hardcorest of hardcore baseball fans and have definitely watched Manny play (or many other players). Unless you’re asking about a prospect or someone like that, where it might be a legitimate question.
But your larger point that Manny has been a hard worker and friendly with fans is true. Manny is unfriendly with fans when he is getting dogged by the media or in a slump or something, but I think when things are going well he is generally a fan favorite.
In his Dodgers stint he was absolutely loved by the fans…until he wasn’t. But I think if he produces everything will be fine with Manny in 2012.
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 21, 2012 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
It's a fair question
because I’m asking from the perspective of someone who watched him in 100+ games a season for 7 years while living in Boston. People who see highlights or occasional national telecasts and base their oppinion of a guy’s play on that often have a limited perspective. that’s all.
and sorry you had to watch so many red sox games.
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 21, 2012 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
yeah, me too
though Eck is a great post game analyst. And in fairness, I did have the extra innings package for at least 6 of those years….though more often than not the A’s games would start at 10pm, which can be rough after a long day!
BTW
There’s plenty of current and former A’s players that admire their long fly balls when they think they’ve hit them out – I suppose you hate/hated all of them.
I personally don’t mind, because usually, if the pitcher is worth his salt, he’ll make sure that hitter, no matter his star status, is aware that that type of b.s. isn’t appreciated by giving him a little chin music in his next AB.
by oakballnack on Feb 21, 2012 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
Wasn't fond of them
I like hustle. Manny and any A’s players who did similar shit weren’t hustling.
by athletics68 on Feb 21, 2012 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
We didn't hate Giambi
he cheated and got caught. We didn’t hate Jack Cust – he was implicated in the Mitchel Report.
I’m sorry, but fuck that “He Cheated and got caught. He took PED’s so I can’t like him.” bullshit. If we hated every player that ever took PED’s, be they greenies, ritalin w/o prescription, HGH, or steroids, we’d probably end up hating a majority of our favorite players.
I ask, how does he come off as jerk? Because he doesn’t respond to media when they try to call him out for what they percieved as dogging it down the line on a ground out?
And what is this bullshit about “inability to wear a proper baseball uniform” – by that standard, I imagine that you also can’t stand: Landon Powell, David Ortiz, Prince Fielder or any number of current players that wear their uniforms loose. Come on. I’d much rather concentrate on things like on field production, work ethic, chemistry with team mates. By those standards, Manny has been a fine player.
by oakballnack on Feb 21, 2012 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
Speak for youself
I hated Giambi after we found out he was a roider (though to be fair he got his comeuppance when he got sick because of it), and I hated Cust. I was glad to see him go.
by athletics68 on Feb 21, 2012 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
Ditto on Giambi.
Although he was a great player, I never much cared for him, though a lot of that was not directly related to the steroids.
As for Cust, I really disliked his initial reaction to the Mitchell Report where he went into flat-out denial that was pretty clearly dishonest. A few months later when he backed down and released a statement that was something like, “no comment on what happened back then, but things were different then, the past is past and I’m clean now” I was OK with him again.
My main objection to the Manny signing is that I don’t like any move that further cements the public’s association of the Oakland A’s with steroids.
Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.
I'm still a diehard A's fan but Manny you suck
by athleticsperson01 on Feb 20, 2012 12:05 PM PST reply actions
Agreed
I’m still going to heckle him in the hopefully unlikely event he makes the team. He’s one of those few players who it really does matter who he is regardless of what jersey he’s wearing. He’s a dick even in A’s colors.
by athletics68 on Feb 20, 2012 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
Breakfast
I’m probably more of a breakfast burrito person than Wolff. He’s more of a frittata type.
Welcome to Oakland, Manny.
Yeah I'm more of a burrito guy myself
So perhaps I was just projecting.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Feb 20, 2012 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
Really like the analysis blez
The act that it’s a minor league deal with no guaranteed roster spot and no incentives sold me on this. And hey, if Chris carter ends up being awesome, just cut manny
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
Completely agree
No need to clear a roster spot for until he shows that he still can perform in spring training, then in practice during the suspension and in AAA.
Just listened to Pedro Gomez interview at espn
Manny said he’s happy to make 500k “with the lord” rather than 20million without him. Not something I ever thought I would hear from manny
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
I'd be happy with $500k
In a box, with a fox.
Funny how these athletes make $500k sound like some big sacrifice.
Cardenas!!!! WoooooooooooooHOOOOOOOOO
Definitely Megan.
"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at b(0)(0)bs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
While it does seem laughable, it's possible he did some soul searching given the whirlwind he has been through personally and professionally.
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 20, 2012 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
He probably saw what being a devout Christian has done for Hamilton in Texas
And figured what the hell.
Were you there when Hamilton spoke to a crowd of A's fans at the end of the 2010 season about his life?
I was. Have you read his book? I did. Do you know what he dealt with and still deals with today? It’s a heckuva story. The A’s actually have quite an accomplished chaplain/ministry program for their players. Maybe it will be a good environment for Manny…at least compared to fried chicken and beer!
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
I know what Hamilton has been through
That’s why I think any “conversion” of Manny is nothing but a line of BS. He’s no Hamilton. Never has been, never would be.
People never change?
I’m not saying he’s changing overnight, but there’s been plenty of people who’s changed for the better after converting, or sometimes without.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
I'm saying ManRam's "conversion" is likely a BS PR ploy
Some people can change, but even for good people like Hamilton it’s hard to change (as evidenced by his now second slip up).
by athletics68 on Feb 21, 2012 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
Perfect misfit toy to add to the island
More Billy being Billy
Cardenas!!!! WoooooooooooooHOOOOOOOOO
ManRam
"and I left Pennington out because I think he will die of natural causes." -sourstuff
by OptimistPrime on Feb 20, 2012 5:19 PM PST up reply actions
I just overloaded on photoshop hallucinations just then.
please let this not be the nick. please.
Didn't think I would like this move
No doubt, Manny can be douchetastic, but considering we just invested 36 million in an unproven, yet potentially historically good right-handed hitter from Cuba who reportedly expressed interest in playing with Manny, I see it as investing 36.5 million in Cespedes, the extra 500 K on his big-league mentoring: getting to pick the brain of, as Blez put it, “arguably the greatest right-handed hitter of our generation.”
If the A’s are truly rebuilding around Yoennis Cespedes, this move makes total sense to me. I’m a “yay.”
Hats for bats. Keep bats warm.
Between him and Pujols… the two greatest right-handers we’ve seen in our lifetimes.
CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.
Did Cespedes specifically say he wanted to be on a team with Manny?
If having Manny on board was a condition for getting Cespedes to sign, then this suddenly makes a whole lot more sense.
Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.
please tell me
his contract has a stipulation that says he has to wear a regular uniform.
Those are pants and a jersey, son. Not pajamas.
"To hell with circumstances; I create opportunities." - Grand Master Bruce Lee
by malikot on Feb 20, 2012 12:49 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
amen
BK: This guy is on fire, he is really smokin'.
KenKo: Oh yeah, Bill? What's he smokin'?
by jlanning17 on Feb 20, 2012 1:08 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
I've sort of come around on Manny as it is as no risk as it gets
I’m more a fan of this signing then the Coco one by a longshot.
Look at those boobs. At least the estrogen worked.
"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais
by MichaelClutchtree on Feb 20, 2012 1:02 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
can someone clarify what a minor league deal means in this context?
The A’s can have him play in Sacto when his suspension is up if they want?
they can have him actually play extended spring training and 10 minor league games DURING his suspension (at the end, just before the suspension is up)
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 20, 2012 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
And they don't have to put him on the forty man roster
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
Hmm, not too excited one way or the other about Manny
I do think an underrated aspect to the signing is how Manny might be able to help with Cespedes’ transition to MLB. Coming from Cuba to Oakland is probably a pretty big culture shock and I imagine Cespedes will struggle with the language barrier for a while. The A’s don’t really have a lot of native Spanish speakers on the roster, the only two that come to mind are Colon and De Los Santos who are both pitchers. Having an outgoing position player who can converse with Cespedes can help with some of the culture shock. And if that player also happens to be one of the best right handed hitters of this generation, then I call that a bonus.
Of course, everybody knows the possible downsides of Manny becoming kind of a mentor for Cespedes but I think his personality quirks are a little overblown. He’s a goofball and very flakey but most of his teammates seem to love him and while his fielding and conditioning have not always been great, nobody questions the work and attention to detail he puts in to honing his hitting ability. I know we don’t want Cespedes to take on Manny’s personality traits but I kind of doubt someone can learn to have an outsized personality like Manny just from being around him.
P.S. I have to admit I don’t know what Cespedes English skills are like so this becomes somewhat moot if he is comfortable with the language.
I don't think Manny has ever been accused of being "flakey" by anyone who has played with him or known him
Terrible fielder? Sure. A guy that occassionally dogs it on fly balls and or running out grounders? Yep. Egotistical? Yes sir. Weird and quirkey? Yes. A flake? No.
by oakballnack on Feb 20, 2012 10:09 PM PST up reply actions
What can he do during the 50 games?
Can he work out in Phoenix or Sac?
Can he work with kids around the cage?
Does he have to stay home far away from all baseball activity?
Best case scenario, he goes off for 6 weeks before the deadline and the 500k investment lands a top prospect from a desperate team.
by AsFan72 on Feb 20, 2012 1:48 PM PST via mobile reply actions
He can do extended spring training, and play in 10 minor league games before his suspension is up.
I am sure he can work out at team facilities in Phoenix but I don’t think he can actually be involved with the A’s or River Cats’ clubhouse in between the extended spring and minor league rehab.
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 20, 2012 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
I think after games no players/managers/coaches should be available for interviews except Manny.
Just parade him out there, have him break down the game. Relieve everyone of the stress of dealing with the press, plus give the press basically their dream come true. Also fans would get a kick out of it (what will manny say next?). Whenever there is a big play, we’ll be waiting for Manny’s postgame commentary. Win-win,-win no?
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 21, 2012 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
This is an absolutely entirely no-risk move, with a decent potential reward
No-risk:
1) Manny costs next to nothing.
At approximately $350K ($500K prorated for the 50 games suspension), as Blez points out, this is change that Wolff burps out when he’s downing his breakfast. This signing does not affect anything with the A’s financially. Because he is so cheap the A’s can also cut him at any time without a care. This is important.
2) Manny isn’t blocking anyone.
Allen and Kila have each been given a long look at the MLB level. Both have failed miserably. Failed prospects can’t really be blocked. I really think that neither will be on the 40-man at the end of Spring.
As for Carter, he will have a chance to showcase his talents all spring and for the first 50 games. That is a reasonable opportunity to give a prospect. If he’s hitting .190, you really can’t justify giving him more than that at the big league level. Manny isn’t blocking his opportunity.
If Carter rakes, then we just cut Manny. If we have injuries, then we might keep Carter and Manny on the 25-man.
3) Manny as a negative role model is overblown
Manny has no cred with this team or front office. If he shows too much of the “Manny being Manny” crap in spring, they can cut him then. There’s no need to keep him around if he presents any type of baggage.
I take more stock in what his former teammates had to say. Crisp and Colon both spoke highly of him.
4) Manny could potentially mentor the young hitters
Related to this is that they’ll have Manny for potentially the time where he is most useful: Spring training. Assuming that a PED-less Manny has nothing left in the tank, he is still useful to impart hitting knowledge on youngsters in the spring. He has nothing to lose by doing this because it will ingratiate him with the A’s management and because it’s not like the youngsters can take his spot (as he is suspended). I think having an HOF-worthy hitter on the squad, who is personable and outgoing, and generally a good teammate in the clubhouse during spring training is a plus. I grant you that “Manny being Mentor” may be farfetched; but this is a no risk proposition. If he mentors, great, if he doesn’t, who cares?
5) We have a 10-game minor league stint to watch him.
Manny will be allowed 10 minor league games to get back in the flow. If he looks abysmal, just cut him then. However, if he looks better than our potentially abysmal options at the MLB level, bring him up and see what he can do.
6) Manny can boost the attendance, TV ratings, and keep people talking about the A’s, especially if 50 games.
I think this is worth noting in a two team market; the Giants typically dominate the media, attendance, and TV/Radio ratings. At least coming up to 50 games in, if the team is even a fringe contender, this will be a HUGE local and national story. If the team is not contending, Manny will at least give the team a couple weeks of buzz and a midseason shot in the arm with the media.
Potential reward:
A solid, middle of the order hitter with power to all fields, good OBP and batting average, and a mentor to young hitters. The chance of this happening might be 50/50, but what do we lose by taking a flier on him?
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 20, 2012 1:49 PM PST reply actions 12 recs
You said everything I was thinking, and better than I would have said it.
Thanks!
Gotta agree with everything here, love this move.
CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.
Thanks on #4 Billy F
This guy knows more about hitting than just about anyone. PED’s aside.
The young players can benefit from that alone.
He’s tested positive twice and is paying the penalty.
Since many have done PED’s I really could care less if he went up there loaded on heroin.
300 at bats scattered through
Three different seasons is a long look in majors? Please. Not that I’m too optimistic about Kila and Allen, but the idea that they were ever given a real audition in majors is just flat out false.
I love rebuilding.
by John of Gaunt on Feb 20, 2012 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
I have to disagree with that. I think it is longer than most prospects get.
Kila started the entire months of August and September 2010, and then also started the first month of the 2011 season, and didn’t really show anything.
Allen was handed the starting 1B job and basically started 40 games in a row with the A’s in 2011. To me, that is a real audition.
Yes, statistically they are both small sample sizes, but you really can’t ask for better chances to prove yourself as a young player; they both have had significant continuous time in a starting role on the MLB club. They could have sucked for 5-10 games and then busted out of it, and kept their jobs. They did not bust out.
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 20, 2012 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
Compare that to say
Matt LaPorta’s two full seasons and over 1000 plate appearances of futility with the Indians.
I love rebuilding.
by John of Gaunt on Feb 20, 2012 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
Not sure that's the best counter example
Seems more likely to be evidence for the position that if a prospect stinks for his first 300 PA’s the most likely outcome is that he will stink for the next 700.
I was not trying to prove that 300 PA
Doesn’t define a career, I was just explaining what is my idea of a solid sample size major league opportunity. If I just wanted to point out some guys bloom in their fourth, fifth or whatever shot in majors I would have went “Cruz blah blah Pena blah Werth blah blah Bautista blah blah blah blah”.
I love rebuilding.
by John of Gaunt on Feb 20, 2012 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
Well summarized BillyF
I also think your 4) is in the mind of Billy the most, i.e. mentoring Cespedes. I wouldn’t be surprised if Manny takes this as seriously as Manny can take anything. But we all know that Manny is as pure a right handed hitter as we have seen, and Cespedes will learn a lot. BB loves it when he can think out of the box, and who would have thought, just a few weeks ago: Cespedes + Manny = A’s, ……
BB is sleeping better these days.
by robertmelvin on Feb 20, 2012 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
Yes - not to mention
It’s a minor league deal, meaning it’s. It a guaranteed contract, so if they do cut him, they won’t owe him the remainder. In other words, it’s a 100% risk free deal, financially speaking.
by oakballnack on Feb 20, 2012 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
NOT a guaranteed contract
Damn iPhone auto correct.
by oakballnack on Feb 20, 2012 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
THAT... makes me feel better about it.
I am so against this for a variety of reasons, but if the contract is truly not guaranteed, then that alone makes it much more palatable.
A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz.
~Humphrey Bogart
When asked about the signing, Billy Beane said, “It’s The Tits!”
"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais
by MichaelClutchtree on Feb 20, 2012 1:56 PM PST reply actions
Poll needs a "meh" option
Getting Manny like this is good, I guess, but I’m not overly excited about it either way.
MiLB Testing Rules
So, is he subject to MiLB testing rules, (from what I understand, basically, anything, anywhere, anytime) during the entire 50 games, or only during the 10 games?
by As Fan in the Bronx on Feb 21, 2012 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
Nice screen name
Went to a couple A’s-Yankees games at Yankees stadium. Good times.
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 21, 2012 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
In my neighborhood
There are three A’s fans… I’m the only one of them who still has a son in green and gold… Not easy to do…
by As Fan in the Bronx on Feb 21, 2012 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
A true Charlie Finley like move.
But I’m good with it, welcome to Oakland.
Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969
Manny? Remember watching A's-Giants games
and Bonds, the Darth Vader of sport, the most hated villain of time, was a truly magnificent batsman? Best of all time. Opposing teams would walk him with no runners on, just to avoid demoralization.
You have to wonder why best athletes of generation all seemed to need juice. But nearly all did – wasn’t illegal at time. Bonds – perhaps Manny as well, would have been best of show w/o PED’s.
I know that money-wise, this is a no risk signing...
but his terrible attitude outweighs any good he could possibly do. Between the steroids, the “Manny being Manny” crap, and just never paying attention during games cuz he’s always dicking around is not what I want to add to a young (for the most part) impressionable team. He might help everyone else hit better… might. I already had a problem with Jonny Gomes’ attitude (he’s a douche too in case you guys didnt know) so adding Manny just make’s the clubhouse that much worse
remember Milton Bradly?
How much worse can this get?……rhetorical question, by the way.
slide! jeremy slide!
Milton was likely certifiably insane. Manny is just a bozo. Big difference.
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
He also had Frank Thomas and Swisher to keep him in line
Remember that HR handshake he and Swisher always did?
I guess Ramirez has Crisp, Colon and Braden who are all outspoken enough to keep his BS in check, and John Shea suggests Gomes, too. Another argument for him actually behaving himself is that it’s an awful lot of work he’s work his putting in to just give up on the season, as this is most likely his last chance at playing unless he can step up at both the plate and in the clubhouse.
There's usually a time lag, even with Bradley,
before problems surface. In fact, often the entire first year is fine.
So I don’t see why Manny would be a problem in his 4-month stint. Usually the first 4 months with a new team are when you hear all the pollyanna “Gosh, I don’t know what happened in Podunk, but he’s been great here!!!111” quotes.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
This offseason keeps getting better
There’s just no risk to this signing. The reward is a guy who could still be a solid hitter and will be available to fill in for injuries or ineffectiveness mid-season. The 50 game suspension actually helps the A’s here in that they can take their time before making a final decision.
Also, this:
Classic Beane move and one that could pay off for sure.
500K…. wow. Seems nobody recognized the true value there. I can’t believe he signed for so little. Nicely done Billy.
kinda makes you think, right?
"and I left Pennington out because I think he will die of natural causes." -sourstuff
by OptimistPrime on Feb 20, 2012 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
And it is pro-rated to take into account for the 50-game suspension.
Manny for $306k is the ultimate Moneyball player gamble
"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at b(0)(0)bs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Somewhere ..
Vladimir Guerrero, Johnny Damon and Magglio Ordonez are scratching their heads. But none were willing to take a crappy deal. They’d rather sit back and collect interest on their millions.
None of them have the steroid cloud hanging over their hopes of being in the HOF
That’s why he’s doing this. To try and break through that cloud. Because right now, today, he’d never see the inside of Cooperstown. Just like every other retired roider.
There's nothing he can do now that will give him a better chance
Seriously. He could hit .300 with 35 bombs this year and it wouldn’t give him a tiny bit of help with the a-hole moralizing baseball writers. The guy just wants to play more than those other guys, and I see that as a good thing.
That was Mike Piazza.
3.0 was Mike Sweeney.
4.0 was Matsui.
this is 5.0.
Slegna must die!
by Athletics fan and runner on Feb 20, 2012 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
The Athletics Reloaded
Manny Ramirez walks into Billy Beane’s office after an adventurous off-season.
Billy The Architect – Hello, Manny.
Ramirez – Who are you?
The Architect – I am the Architect. I created the Athletics. I’ve been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your body chemistry, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.
Ramirez – Why am I here?
The Architect – Your career is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of sabermetrics. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.
Ramirez – You haven’t answered my question.
The Architect – Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.
The Architect – The Athletics are older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one aging veteran to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the fifth version.
Ramirez – There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.
The Architect – Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly’s systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.
Ramirez – Uncertainty. The problem is uncertainty.
The Architect – The first team I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every playoff system, thus I redesigned it based on history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of baseball’s human nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an ambitious land developer, initially hired to investigate certain aspects of marketability. If I am the general manager of the Athletics, he would undoubtedly be its owner.
Ramirez – Lew Wollfe.
The Architect – Please. As I was saying, he stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the contract, as long as they were given money, even if they were only aware of the stadium situation at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that accepted less money, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
Ramirez – This is about payroll.
The Architect – You are here because the payroll is about to be destroyed. The team’s every living homegrown talent traded, their entire contributions eradicated.
Ramirez – Bullshit.
The Architect – Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the fifth time we have destroyed the roster, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
The Architect – The function of the Veteran is now to return to baseball, allowing a temporary dissemination of the talent you carry, reinserting prime baseball skills. You will be required to mentor on the Athletics 23 individuals, 16 prospects, 7 major leaguers, to help rebuild the roster. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic losing streak, a fire-sale of everyone connected to the team, which coupled with the extermination of payroll will ultimately result in the contraction of the entire organization.
Ramirez – You won’t let it happen, you can’t. You need baseball to survive.
The Architect – There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept, such as running soccer teams. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the future of every baseball prospect on this team.
The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of players from all organizational levels appear on the monitors.
The Architect – It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the Oakland A’s, facilitating the function of the Veteran. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, ego.
Ramirez – Mannyland.
The Architect – Apropos, stardom entered baseball to save your career, at the cost of your own reputation.
Ramirez – No!
The Architect – Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both talent and personality. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to work ethic, and the salvation of the A’s. The door to the left leads back to Mannyland, to ego, and to the end of the current roster. As you adequately put, the problem is payroll. But we already know what you’re going to do, don’t we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of ego, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and talent. An attitude that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: you will be benched, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.
Ramirez walks to the door on his left.
The Architect – Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.
Ramirez – If I were you, I would hope that we don’t sign a contract again.
The Architect – We won’t.
by Ciderbeck on Feb 20, 2012 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 16 recs
Brilliant
Send it to Hardball Times. It should be made available to a wider audience.
Editor: Bryan Tsao – sardonicbryan@gmail.com
Cardenas!!!! WoooooooooooooHOOOOOOOOO
Wow
terrific
When we played softball, I’d steal second base, feel guilty and go back.
- Woody Allen
by rhymeswithelephant on Feb 20, 2012 9:23 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks for the praises everyone!
The idea popped into my head thinking about Manny being yet another aging veteran. Nasty repetitive cycle. I was sort of amazed myself how well the pieces fit. Glad you all liked and thanks for the many recs!
BEST POST EVER
We can stop the internets now as it won’t get better than this.
Slegna must die!
by Athletics fan and runner on Feb 22, 2012 7:41 PM PST up reply actions
I think
and I know you have all been waiting with bated breath for what I think, but I think Manny comes back with a vengeance, with an eye to prove that he can do it au natural. I also think he is going to come in with a bit of humility after all he’s been through. Plus, it’s Oakland. There is no media circus here, so I would think he would be less-inclined to be a clown or attention grabber. I like the signing….gives us s true 4 hitter who you have to pitch carefully to. Kinda like Cust, but the exact opposite.
"and I left Pennington out because I think he will die of natural causes." -sourstuff
by OptimistPrime on Feb 20, 2012 4:53 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Sounds good
And yeah, when you think about it he really is the exact opposite of Cust, but also kind of similar. Weird…
Because Cust was a bad defender, while Manny
is … um, wait. Say what?
Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.
It's that whole "Righty/Lefty" thingy.
Plus, Cust with dreadlocks….?
"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at b(0)(0)bs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
I would pay to see that.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
AJ Burnett
Pre- All Star break last year he had 100K’s in 119 IP, a 4.15 ERA, and a 1.25 WHIP. A terrible August where he had an ERA over 11 screwed his numbers up, but other than that he wasn’t bad really. For two organizational filler type prospects and for around 6 million a year I think he’s a decent guy to take a chance on, and the move to the NL and away from Yankee Stadium helps too. He still has good stuff.
David Hasselhoff
Hasn’t really done much since that lifeguard show, but his music career in Germany has really taken off.
"and I left Pennington out because I think he will die of natural causes." -sourstuff
by OptimistPrime on Feb 20, 2012 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Does this mean we have to build a door into the left field wall?
"and I left Pennington out because I think he will die of natural causes." -sourstuff
by OptimistPrime on Feb 20, 2012 5:23 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Sadly, by doing nothing for the first 50 games
Manny will still be the most productive April/May DH we’ve had in years.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Feb 20, 2012 6:05 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I have doubts whether he's got much left
I suspect what we saw in the second half of 2010 was age-related bat-speed slowing down, which the PEDs couldn’t mask completely. But since he signed a minor league contract with no incentives, this is really a low risk investment for the A’s.
but to think he should be signed to translate for Céspedes – puhleeze!
"Hello everyone, this is future Hall of Famer, twice-caught cheater,
minor leaguer, and translator Manuel Ramirez…Mr. Céspedes just asked, ‘May I have a pastrami sandwich?’…"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It's a higher risk proposition for Manny than for the A's.
If he sucks or blows it, he’s toast and it doesn’t bode well for his HOF chances, whatever they are.
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
Something like, we get:
Cespedes at $38.305 million, which includes a translator in his employment package;
and we also get:-
a slow bat speed, part-time, soon to be 40 year old, future Hall of Famer for $0.00
not bad Billy, most of us approve!!
by robertmelvin on Feb 20, 2012 8:19 PM PST up reply actions
not to translate, but I think when adjusting to a new country and lifestyle, it helps to have people that you can relate to
Granted, Manny is not Cuban, but at least he has been through the same type of transition to MLB life, and dominated. Not the worst guy to have around.
I know my parents’ transition to life in America was greatly helped by having friends/family around from their background who had gone through the same move.
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 21, 2012 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
just Billy being Billy
...just observing from a distance...
by 3oo level fan on Feb 20, 2012 8:16 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Mr. Beane is simply getting the band back together
The Cleveland Indians band. Who knows?
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. - Mark Twain
Meh
Maybe I’m just prejudiced against Manny – I really don’t like him and I don’t feel that this move will help – but I realize that it’s a low-risk acquisition. I’m not bought on it, but if thing turn out alright and Manny hits and isn’t a jerk like he has been for former teams, then I’ll be happy with admitting to being wrong about this whole deal.
Pressure
I myself think that Manny will limit the pressure on guys like Cespedes and other bats on the team. Manny puts the spotlight on him now.
Still love the signing
even after reading comments. Should the A’s soil themselves whenever a monster-payroll team comes to town? Fear the Angels and Rangers? Fuck no.
Now batting, Manny Fucking Ramirez. Deal with us.
by Slip n Slide on Feb 21, 2012 11:58 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Have the A's really come to this?
Selling out to gain a slim hope for an advantage? Shame on you.
by Ran on Feb 22, 2012 12:15 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Where is the "sellout"? I don't see it.
It’s not like we are petitioning MLB to lessen his suspension. He will do his “time” for PED use. This contract puts all the pressure on Manny to reform. I’m sure he is on a strict diet of drug tests. There are some who wish the A’s dump Krol, and all he did was be stupid. That sounds similar to me. Would you turn down a shot to acquire Lincecum because he was caught with pot?
"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at b(0)(0)bs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Please, guys, don’t wear Manny wigs to the games.
by Brownie's Year on Feb 23, 2012 11:56 AM PST reply actions
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