The 5MM club.
by Mike Siegel on Feb 2, 2012 10:00 AM PST
Email
PrintI woke up this morning to two very interesting articles on MLBTR. The first is that the Nats are aggressively shopping John Lannen, who is a good SP with a 5mm salary for this year: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/02/nationals-aggressively-shopping-john-lannan.html
The 2nd is that both Damon and Guerrero are seeking $5mm deals: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/02/damon-guerrero-seek-5mm-deals.html
The reason I bring these up is because by coincidence all these players would cost a team 5mm each and all these players would be a great fit for Oakland.
Our payroll is extremely low and I don't think it would hurt to add a couple 5mm players. John Lannen is 27 years old and isn't a FA until 2014 (we can have him for 2 years). He posted a 3.70 ERA with 5.2 K/9 and 3.7 BB/9 in 184 2/3 innings last year, starting 33 games. I believe he can only do better in Oakland. For 5mm I'll take him to solidify our rotation even more.
As for Damon and Guerrero, they are both old and still hit better than most guys 10 years younger than them. You can look up their numbers for yourself, but they both had very good 2011 seasons. The A's are in need of a DH and one of those guys are a good fit to fill that spot. I would love to take one of them on a 1yr contract, and for only 5mm, absolutely.
What do you think?
53 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
none of the above
Develop from within. Rebuild. Don’t waste money, and more importantly the time, on overpriced declining hitters like Guerrero or Damon. Se what we have with our own pitching and give them a good shot. In three years Lannen will be expensive or gone anyway.
by kimo from kauai on Feb 2, 2012 10:07 AM PST reply actions
+1
Why is there no none of the above category?
Of all of these I suppose I would take Lannan, but unlike the others we would have to trade for him (I would much rather grab a guy like Edwin Jackson or Roy Oswalt, even if they cost more.)
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 2, 2012 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
I totally agree.
I would much rather have Jackson or Oswalt. But the A’s will never pay that kind of money and neither of them would want to come to Oakland. The hard thing with FA is that it’s their choice. With a trade the player has to go.
We are trying to shop Allen, which I think is a good idea. I would use him or any of our 1B with a minor leaguer for Lannen.
they paid $10M for a year of an injured Ben Sheets
If they threw $10M at Oswalt do you think he would go for it?
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 2, 2012 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
No.
Oswalt wants to go to a contender. He already stated this. Unless we offer Oswalt much more than what the Rangers, Cards, and Red Sox are offering him, he won’t even look our way. Since the three teams above plan on offering him 8-10mm, that means the A’s would probably have to go to 12mm+ and we all know that will never happen.
Thoughts.
I don’t think our pitching prospects will be able to perform as well as we hope this year. None of them have really proven themselves at a major league level. I would rather have Lannen for at least this year and maybe next. By next year our prospects will be much better equipped and hopefully have some more MLB games under their belt. 5mm isn’t a waste of money in my opinion for a healthy proven starter with a sub 4 ERA (and that’s in Wash).
As for Damon and Guerrero. I don’t see much of a risk in a 1yr contract. They would be a better DH then anyone else we can put in that role this year. Maybe by next year we can have a better DH ready.
With his peripherals he will have a hard time to get a below 4 ERA again.
And a change in the tougher league will not help him. Without pichers to strike out he might dip into the 4 K/9 area.
by Rio on Feb 2, 2012 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
I think he can pitch even better in Oakland.
He is still young and can improve, so last years numbers might be the start of a good career. The K rate is mediocre and will probably stay that way in Oakland, but I think his ERA can be a sub 3.70.
Based on what?
Business man by day, fearless couch guardian by night.
by Hoegaarden on Feb 2, 2012 2:04 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
His numbers and park factors.
He had a career best of 3.70 ERA last year. In all three of his career full seasons (150+ IP) he has had a sub 4.00 ERA. That is pitching for Washington where they play in Nationals Park, a neutral park. He is still young and can improve naturally. If he played for the A’s he would be pitching in O.co, a very pitcher friendly park. Thus his numbers and performance would be even better.
+1
Thais reminds me of the great question “which is better, getting punched in the face or in the gut?”
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
I am now able to report that I don't like either
{faints}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
what would we have to give up
to acquire Lannan. that’s the biggest problem. he’s not exactly going to be moved just for salary relief.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
I'm sure we could figure it out.
It can’t be too much. The Nats are really trying to get rid of him quick and he can’t be worth a ridiculous amount.
Jackson
The Nats just signed Edwin Jackson: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/02/nationals-to-sign-edwin-jackson.html
So now they really have no need for Lannen except for depth, but they my as well save 5mm and trade him.
Nats want
a position player. Can we just give them some AAAA guy and add Lannan as depth?
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
I would really rather not get stuck with a sub-1.5 WAR pitcher for another 2 years
Plus, wasting 10M+ when we have so many pitching prospects. I’d rather throw Parker/Peacock up early or throw Godfrey to the wolves.
If that Nats..
A) Don’t really want to pay Lannen the $5M and are B) Publicly trying to move him I would offer Fuentes for him…
They both will make $5M, so the Nats won’t save money but they get someone who can be effective to help out their bullpen. Fuentes struggled early due in part to Geren over using him but once Geren was out and Fuentes became comfortable he finished the second half of the season with a 1.71 ERA.
A’s do this because Fuentes is here this year and then thats the last we will see of him in an A’s uniform. So we move a $5M reliever who’s 36 years old for a $5M 27 year old starter. A’s can have him be the 5th starter and hope he can eat some innings, be effective and we can postpone someone in our minors from starting their clock. He would help out if anyone gets hurt as well as if someone does not come back on time (Braden,Anderson)
Furthermore, if he struggles then he can be released or traded. If he is successful then he can be flipped for maybe a low level prospect and we save whatever is left of $5M…
win win situation for everyone.
I like this idea.
I’m always looking for an outlet to get rid of Fuentes.
Yes!
We’ll even eat $2M of his salary!
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 2, 2012 3:58 PM PST up reply actions
You mean Bartolo would eat $2m of his salary
Which would then effectively double his salary
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
We might as see how the players we already have do...
See if we can find some gems in the bunch. That seems to be the plan. Hope combined with development.
I'd be mildly interested in Lannan
Trying to squeeze out a year of decent performance out of old guys like Damon and Guerrero hold no appeal to me. Even if you don’t like the idea of betting on Carter, Allen, or Kila the risk/reward for Damon and Guerrero doesn’t really add up in my opinion. Both are risky as they are well into the decline phase of their careers and even if they were able to maintain their recent performance it wouldn’t do much to help the A’s.
If Lannan could be gotten fairly cheaply I could see him being a useful addition. His two best attributes are his ability to generate groundballs and health. With all the question marks surrounding the A’s potential rotation getting a guy who has had over 30 starts each of the last 4 years could provide nice cover.
I don’t know what it would take to get Lannan but if we could get 1 year of Willingham for Corey Brown and Henry Rodriguez could Lannan be had for Jermaine Mitchell and lively relief arm like Carignan, Norberto, or Billings? Seems unlikely but what do I know. Supposedly the Nats are looking for a CF in return for Lannan and I definitely would not send Grant Green their way despite my reservations about his game so I don’t know if the A’s would match up.
Oswalt
While trade anything of value to Washington, only to get Lannon and his $5 million cost?
Throw in a few million more and be the front runner to get Oswalt. Both the Cards and the Sox offered $5 million for Oswalt. Sox have cap issues and likely will not go up much. The Cards are said to need to move McCallen (spelling?) before they can go over the $5. If the A’s go hard at him, he is theirs. Offer him $8 million. With the end goal of having him pitch half the year, and then trading him. That work to a goal of two things. One, the A;s would get a nice one or two prospects in return, and two it would put another body between the young guns, and their stating in the majors.
He wants to go to a Contender.
He won’t sign with us. Texas will offer him more than 5mm and he will sign with them if he decides against the Red Sox and Cards. Texas is the front runner on this and Oswalt would absolutely take a lower pay for a chance at the WS. Oakland isn’t even on his radar.
who, among our current list of potential starting pitchers, is Lannan better than?
Certainly not better than McCarthy. Not better than a somewhat healthy Braden. Not better than a somewhat healthy Ross. Not better than Colon, nor Parker, Peacock, or Milone.
Better than Graham Goddfrey, I suppose. Barely.
He is proven.
He had proven to be healthy and maintain a sub 4 ERA in the Pros at only age 27. In my opinion he is better than Ross, Parker, Peacock, Milone, or any other rookie who hasn’t pitched a full season at a major league level. Also, he is probably better than Colon too, since Colon seems to be declining a bit. Remember Lannan can improve too.
I Wouldn't Really Want Any Of Those Guys
Guerrero would basically fall under the Manny-category, minus the lousy attitude: an aging slugger who would be a one-year, 3-5 million dollar option, and that’s not a wagon that I’d really hop on; they’re actually both similar to David Justice, who, in 2002, was an aging slugger that everyone else thought was done. Eventually, he had an average season (.266, 11 HR, 49 RBI in 398 games), and that was for around 3.5 million. The interesting thing about Justice is that he put up a .376 OBP and drew 70 walks; throughout his career, he had been a guy who drew plenty of walks and consistently put up high on-base percentages, far above the league average.
But I diverge. Vlad did put up some good stats in 2011, especially for a 36 year-old, but in no one category did he stand out. He did have 30 doubles, but he didn’t hit many home runs, he didn’t drive in lots of runs, and he struck out 39 times more than he walked. 2010 was not a good indicator of his current value; look at the differences between 2009, 2010 and 2011:
2009: (.295/15/50, .794 OPS)
2010: (.300/29/115, .841 OPS)
2011: (.290/13/63, .733 OPS)
Of course, I’m sure you could argue that Vlad at 5 million would be a good deal, but you should also think about the bigger picture: doesn’t this completely go against the team’s current philosophy of “stay young, build from within”? Johnny Gomes: OK, fine. Manny: No. Vlad: Meh, probably not. I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again, give the young guys their big chance in 2012.
As for Lannan.. why? I mean, what is the point of getting John Lannan when there’s no real improvement? He’s an average starter who really shouldn’t be higher than 3rd in a rotation.
Vlad yes. Lannen yes. Everything else, agreed.
As you said Vlad had 30 doubles last year and not many HR. IF he comes to Oakland, doubles are the most likely extra base hit he can get. He won’t hit a lot of HRs anyways, but he can hit 30 doubles again in Oakland. Plus he is a great hitter, look at those averages. Nobody, besides maybe Weeks will be hitting like that. For 5mm he will definitely improve the team.
Lannen is an above avg starter who will get better as well as pitch better in Oakland. He would help or rotation greatly. He would make a great 4th man and 5th man once Anderson comes back in August. If we don’t have him our rotation looks like this up until Aug:
1.McCathy
2. Braden
3. Colon
4. Rookie
5. Rookie
That’s not very impressive. Having 2 rotation spots of unproven players is risky. I would much rather have it look like this:
1. McCarthy
2. Braden
3. Colon
4. Lannen
5. Rookie
and in August like this:
1. Anderson
2. McCarthy
3. Braden
4. Colon
5. Lannen
That is a much more threatening and impressive rotation.
All Valid Points
But is there a possibility that Vlad might turn out to be an improved Matsui?
As for Lannan, what you say is true, but I do like the look of the rotation, and I think guys like Milone and Parker will (and should) play important parts in 2012. John Lannan is not a guy who gets me excited, but what you say is true; I just want to see some of the young guys in the staff.
The other thing is, it’s just one year. Getting these players will not drastically improve the A’s, they will not put up stellar stats and they may very well steal experience and playing time from the young guys. I think that a lot of these one-year deals have really done nothing; in the past few years, I can think of one that really stands out: Willingham.
by Sean Fortuna on Feb 3, 2012 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
Yes. But..
I completely understand where you’re coming from and I agree. Except I don’t think it will take much playing time away from our young guys. Vlad would only DH, and we wouldn’t want a rookie DH anyways. Having a rookie DH isn’t giving them much experience and would be a terrible choice for a DH. We want our young guys being able to play in the field. Kila, Carter, and Allen should be playing 1B and any other positions they can play. They could also have some DH at bats, but I wouldn’t want any of them as my permanent DH. At this point it looks like Gomes is going to be the DH and he isn’t one of the young guys, so we would just be replacing him with Vlad who is an improvement.
As for Lannen. With him we would still have one of our rookies in the 5th spot until Aug. Who knows he might even be able to keep his rotation spot if Colon or someone else doesn’t perform how we want them too. The other rookies can provide depth and pitch in long relief. Let’s hope everyone stays healthy, but in case they don’t that is what the young guys are for, to fill in until they prove themselves. Not be locked in the starting rotation opening day. Plus Braden and Colon will be limited and won’t start over 30 games, leaving at least 6-10 starts for the young guys.
Ah-Ha
First of all, I believe Gomes is going to be spending most of his time platooning in left with Smith.
Second of all, all you say may very well be true, and this is actually where Daric Barton plays a big part. I believe that the front office is staying loyal to DB; needless to say, he’ll have to compete for his job in spring, with Allen, Kila and Carter in the mix. If Barton performs in spring and gets the 1B job, then this really limits the possibilities for the three aforementioned youngsters. With Barton at first, the OF set and some veteran as the DH (where there’ll be platooning), then all those three guys will get is a few at-bats here and there and that is NOT what we want, or at least what I want. Of course, Barton might struggle, or the hip may still bug him, in which case we’ll have to wait and see.
And once again, I have to bring up the “rebuilding” argument. The A’s are not contenders and this is a team building for the future. Signing aging players to one-year deals is not the way you’d want to rebuild. We have a bunch of young players. We signed Gomes and traded for Smith. This already limits playing time. Someone is definitely gonna be sent bak down to the minors. There will be platooning, because the best option here is to let the kids play, experience the Bigs some more. Having two unproven pitchers is what’s going to happen.
But I do agree with you that putting a rookie at DH isn’t all that good; still, what can you do? Find what works.
I see.
If we do end up platooning and/or having a bunch of rookies around I really hope everyone plays “rookie of the year” caliber baseball. Then we would have an awesome team.
That Would Be Nice
TBH, though, I’m just hoping for some good, solid, all-around performances by Carter, Taylor, Milone and the rest.
huh?
Having 2 rotation spots of unproven players is risky.
Not sure where you’ve been, but word on the street is that this club is rebuilding. Now, signing a declining, senior citizen to take AB’s away from the glut of guys we already have at that position and, or trading young prospects away for a mediocre SP that has one decent season under his belt and is only under team control for another year doesn’t seem to fit that mode of thinking. It just doesn’t make sense for the A’s given the direction their headed and their goal of fielding a contending team in 4 years.
Vlad is one thing. His 1yr contract would just be to boost the A’s offense. But since all the A’s fans just want them to lie down and die this year, then maybe that isn’t the best choice.
Lannan on the other hand would be a great guy to add to the rotation because he is cheap and proven. He has 4 seasons of 25 games started or more, three of them with a sub 4 ERA. He is still young and we can have him for 2 years. By that time all our rookie SPs will be a lot better and can take his place if we don’t resign him. His numbers can only improve in Oakland coming from Wash and if we don’t like him we can trade him or wait and not re-sign him.
I Think "Lie Down And Die" Is A Bit Harsh
No one is saying “God, I hope the A’s suck for the next few years because we’ll never be good enough to win anyway.”
What people are saying is “Hey, right now, the chips are down, we’re not good enough to consistently contend, so let’s trade to get some good young guys and build up the farm system so that in a few years we burst out and win the division.”
Let’s not try to win this year while at the same time lowering our chances of winning in the future. But yes, I see the value of Lannan, and where your going with this.
The Problem...
It was harsh, sorry about that. We have to be realistic though. Every year we are all about the hot new prospects that have so much buzz behind them when in reality how many of them even become above average? Some top prospects never even make the mlb roster. I’m all for investing in a couple young guys, but having 1/2 the team of rookies, 2nd years or guys who have never played a full season is ridiculous. Nothing is proven. Every single one of them can be terrible or get injured. There is no knowing what will happen. In my opinion rookies should be used as backups and come in when we have a big lead or if we need them to replace a resting player. It isn’t until they are consistently hitting well or pitching well that we decide to transfer them into a permanent role.
I am all about the here and now. That’s what wins game. Look at all the best teams. They maintain all their best players and get really good proven players to fill their needs in the off season. Cards needed OF help, they sign Beltran, not some young guy or promote a rookie. Brewers need an IF they sign Ramirez. Rockies need an OF and a C, they sign Cuddyer and Hernandez. Diamonbacks need OF help, they sign Kubel. Tampa Bay needs a better 1B, they sign Pena. Twins need an OF and infield help, they sign Willingham and Carroll. None of these clubs have half their team unproven risky players that could be complete duds. That’s why these teams will win games. They identify their needs and fix them with quality people. That is how a baseball team should be run. At the A’s rate, we’re gonna rebuild every 3 years when arbitration rolls around for the young guys.
Every year our mentality should be: What’s our budget? What positions do we need to replace or improve? Who’s available? Let’s get them. If we thought like that and make all the possible improvements every off season then every year we would be a solid team. The word prospect means nothing until they show me that they are something.
I am high on Carter
or maybe just high.
I think Vlad would take away his ABs. I think Carter will be a very productive big league hitter but his history shows an adjustment period at each level. Give him a chance to make those adjustments w/o the threat of Vlad (or some other over-the-hill player) ready to take away his ABs.
by Billy Frijoles on Feb 3, 2012 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
One possibility is that Carter starts out slow as he just finishes getting his footing and then heats up come June/July. But you never know.
I never agreed with the people who said Carter sucked and that we should give up on him just because he hasn’t impressed in about 100 big league AB’s.
I fear Manny will do the same
It’s why I’m against signing Manny. Let Carter play for a year.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
+1
Give him a complete, fair shot at a job.
by kimo from kauai on Feb 5, 2012 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
Brandon Webb is still out there
(ducks)
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
Let's See...
In the last three years he’s thrown four innings. For a guy who seemed like a stud with the stats he was putting up, it’s actually kinda sad. Everyone said he was going to be an ace.
Lannen?
Your case for Lannen is legit – could be serviceable and reasonable. And trading Fuentes would be sooo golden. But trading Allen? Dunno.
In related topic, not convinced adding under-valued vets to squad reads negative. If Colon – or Braden or anyone – suck in ST then bring in Ross, Milone, Godfrey, Peacock to start season. Why stash these guys? If they’re better players, then play.
Similarly, Manny debate cuts both ways – but Carter at DH is not abhorrent. He is ready for Prime Time – or not. Play him occasionally at 1B – where he does not suck – but get his bat into game. Could be next Ortiz or Cepeda – neither of whom had positions either.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Barry Bonds thinks it will be ‘very sad’ if he doesn’t get into the Hall on his first try
- Chris Johnson’s glove webbing had a Spidey sense at Coors Field — for one play, at least
- Jonathan Lucroy breaks hand after suitcase falls during search for sock
- The Juice: Long Adam Dunn homer punctuates Chris Sale’s 15 Ks, Mark Trumbo goes deep after Jered Weaver goes down for Angels
- Leyland begs media to make umpires ‘accountable’ for bad calls (VIDEO)
