Back Up the Brink's Truck for Jorge Soler
by danmerqury on Jan 3, 2012 7:00 AM PST
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PrintSpeaking of truckloads of dollars, Susan Slusser reports (and AP, via the SJ Merc, concurs) that the A's have dealt OF Jai Miller to the Orioles for cash considerations. UPDATE #2: Joe Stiglich, also in the Merc, has Coco Crisp about to resign with Oakland on a two-year deal. --EN
By my back-of-the-envelope math, the A's just saved $10-15MM for this upcoming season by trading away Trevor Cahill, Gio Gonzalez, and Andrew Bailey. Even after figuring in a handful of arbitration raises and league-minimum salaries for the new guys, the A's are looking at a rather nice amount of cash on their hands. The savings over the next few years will be even greater, considering that Gonzalez and Bailey are going into their first year of arbitration, and that Cahill has only cashed in $500,000 of his $30.5MM contract. We don't know much about the Athletics' financial books, but considering that they offered a rumored $64MM deal to Adrian Beltre last winter, they clearly have a little spending money.
Billy has already said that they're willing to spend upwards of $10MM on the draft this year. But outside of the draft, there's a target that the A's absolutely need to acquire if they're serious about this 2015 rebuild plan: 19-year-old Cuban defectee Jorge Soler.
Some background first. From Baseball America's Jim Callis:
Six-foot-3 and 205 pounds, Soler has explosive bat speed and power potential. He also has plus speed and arm strength and profiles as a classic right fielder, though he runs well enough to play center. Because of his youth, he'll need some time to develop, but he should be worth the wait.
Callis goes on to say that if Soler had been a part of 2010's MLB draft, he would have been a top five overall pick, likely after the top three of Bryce Harper (A), Jameson Taillon (A-), and Manny Machado (A). Grades in parentheses are from John Sickels' 2012 rankings. Callis also compares Soler to 2011 fifth overall pick Bubba Starling, and he expects both Starling and Soler to sit in the 11-20 range of Baseball America's next Top 100 prospect list. Put it this way—scouts are absolutely in love with the kid.
And the best news of all? According to Susan Slusser, the A's have shown "strong interest".
Fellow countryman Yoenis Cespedes seems to be rated a bit higher by scouts than Soler, but Cespedes has the stronger brand name recognition, and thus, a stronger bidding war and price. And besides, at age 26, Cespedes doesn't fit as well with the Athletics' 2015 rebuilding plan as the 19-year-old Soler.
Now, as far as the new Collective Bargaining Agreement is concerned, there's a new clause that sets a limit on any club's international expenditures at a total of $2.9MM over the 2012-2013 signing period. However, that signing period begins on July 2, 2012, so Soler could be the last unrestricted international signing that the A's can make.
Billy Beane absolutely needs to do this rebuild right, after the last Holliday-shortened attempt. There's no better way of putting high-upside talent in an A's uniform than the farm system, and between Soler, the 2012 #11 overall pick in the draft, and a little luck, the A's could get a formidable infusion of young talent a year or two into their new park in San Jose. The A's haven't had a position player in the top 20 places of Baseball America's top prospect list since Carlos Pena in 2002.
So go ahead and overpay for the kid, Billy. Throw that cash around. Where else are you going to put the money, Cody Ross?
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Absolutely agree
This is exactly the kind of move that a rebuilding team should make.
If BB can pull this off, I will be behind this rebuild.
You are correct, dan. we must rebuild from the bottom up, and a signing like this fits the model. If he signs Cody, then here we go again….
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
As always Dan...
Nothing to disagree with here
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by dwishinsky on Jan 3, 2012 7:52 AM PST via iPhone app reply actions
My guess: coco will come back on 2 year deal 7 mil a season
but i dont get why A’s will do this
I'm good with it.
Crisp starts in CF, Reddick in RF, and one of Taylor/Allen in LF with Cowgill as the 4th OF.
I would personally prefer Allen in LF, with Barton getting a shot at 1B again and Taylor starting at AAA. His (Taylor) season with Sac wasn’t all that impressive and niether his defense nor bat impressed me with the A’s at the end of the year. Both looked like they could use some more work. With all LH hitters in the OF, Cowgill can get a good amount of ab’s against RHP. As soon as someone goes down, Taylor is first in line to get into the OF mix at the big league level.
I'm guessing Coco gets flipped to a contender at the deadline
Otherwise this doesn’t make much sense from a rebuilding standpoint.
No mikev, no peace
Know mikev, know peace
If that were possible it would have happened last year. I don't think he has much
market value. I’m surprised the Nats don’t want him.
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
I think there were still
delusions of contention last year leading up to the deadline – there may have been at least mild interest.
by oakballnack on Jan 3, 2012 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
Really?
When was the 11 game losing streak and Geren canning? I’m having a hard time remembering – the whole season was kind of a blur of badness. There shouldn’t have been any delusions after that little run.
It’s true the Rangers started slowly over the first couple of months and left the A’s almost inexplicably still in the running far longer than they should have been, but I thought that by the deadline Oakland was way out of it. I got the impression that they didn’t do much dealing because Beane was getting lowballed.
by laserbeams on Jan 4, 2012 8:14 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think we were only
like 4 or 5 games back going into July last year. The whole division was pretty weak in the first half.
Thanks
And 12.5 out by the middle of the month. I’m sure the team would have traded him had there been strong offers at that point.
Also, someone could sign him, right now, for nothing
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I think assumption Mike Garza was going on
is that CF’s are high up on the list of position players that tend to get hurt the most – and teams are often looking for a quality CF mid-season due to said injuries, or sub par play from the guys they have in house. If Crisp were to mount another season similar to the one he had last year in the first half of this year, you might be able to trade him for a mid level prospect and a bag of balls. It would also buy you another half season to see if Grant Green can really hack the position at the AAA level.
I think that's a valid hope
There’s definitely a moment in the middle of the summer when the remaining contenders face trade-deadline pressure to get “proven veteran leadership” to replace some key injury they’ve just suffered. Unfortunately for the A’s, it seems as if teams have become a lot less enthusiastic about trading even low-level prospects for that kind of fill-in.
And, of course, Crisp has his own injury history hanging over him. It’s at least as likely that the A’s will be the team trying to replace their injured CF come July!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Yeah, I should have been more specific
I realize someone could sign him right now, but as it stands, apparently, he’s coming back to Oakland. Centerfielders have a tendency to move at the deadline. If he’s reasonably healthy and a contender is thin on outfield depth, he’s probably gone. I’m not saying they’ll get anything of value for him, but it’s a possibility imo.
No mikev, no peace
Know mikev, know peace
someone has to play the outfield
And teams, especially those that receive revenue sharing, are under pressure from MLB to reach a minimum salary threshold – which the A’s are way, way below.
But you’re right, this has nothing to do with rebuilding. It’s all about the salary threshold.
by jdr on Jan 3, 2012 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing
probably one of the conditions of his coming back in the first place. Worst case scenario, he stays the whole year, kicks ass, and builds up value again. In the meantime, I’m stoked that he’s coming back.
Love me some Coco! Go A’s!
Oh, and this post is rec’d! Go get him Billy!
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
by mrod on Jan 3, 2012 7:27 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Nice Writeup!
This begs the question about the status of our other international draftees and if we have seen the fruition of any of them since Miguel Tejada. Thus, far I can’t think of any especially from the pitching standpoint over the last few years. There have been some we have acquired that were born abroad but they were acquired through the draft.
It would be nice to stock our system with some of the younger foreign players especially those who are in our Caribbean school (if we still have one).
"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King
Haven't really been any, yeah.
Billy didn’t do much shopping in the area for a while. But now we’ve got Ynoa, Vicmal de la Cruz, Renato Nunez. All young guys. Soler would fit right in.
by danmerqury on Jan 3, 2012 8:42 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
Regarding Cruz and Nunez...
Cruz is at the ripe old age of 16 and Nunez is about 18. I like the fact that the former is an OF and the latter is a 3B prospect. thinking about how many years it took for Tejada to develop, we’ve got a loooong way to go with these guys. We just need more of them…lots of them.
"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King
Vicmal absolutely demolished the Dominican Summer League, too.
162 wRC+ as an 18-year-old.
by danmerqury on Jan 3, 2012 9:09 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
Considering that for wRC 100 is average...
where did his numbers stack up relative to others that you saw….top 5-10 %?
"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King
Total nerd tangent:
I really wish those + stats would use standard deviations (z-score) above/below the mean, instead of simple percentage points. That way, a wRC+ of 162 would give you a percentile like you’re asking. A whole lot more meaningful.
Anyway, Fangraphs has a minor league leaderboard.
http://www.fangraphs.com/minorleaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=30&qual=y&type=1&season=2011
Looks like he was 7th in the league, out of 180 qualified batters. Five of the six ahead of him are in their early 20s. Vicmal is only 18.
It's still not park adjusted. I get the the DSL is a pitchers' league but don't know
how the A’s park plays
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
From My Perspective....
… of treating athletes with injuries. Let’s hope he has none and we can enjoy watching his development.
"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King
And he just turned 18 at that (BD of 11/20/93)
so, he was actually a minor when he put up those numbers. Impressive
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
Well, it is safe to say it's within 10 years...
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
I wouldn't call that ignorant
it’s absolutely something to consider. Dunno about this particular case though…
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
I just wasn't sure which countries are trustworthy on DOB's and which aren't.
"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"
If I remember right, the Dominican can be hit or miss.
Tejada faked his age, Casilla was Jairo Garcia for a while, etc.
Even more recently, Leo Nuñez
or should I say Juan Carlos Oviedo.
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
Ramón Hernández
was one year after Tejada.
I dimly recall another international guy we first signed but traded to another team while he was still in the minors, but I’m blanking on a name.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Mario Encarnacion
Might be Mario Encarnacion, he was traded in the deal to get Jermaime Dye
I was thinking there's someone who
actually made a successful dent in the bigs on another team who was initially signed by Oakland.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Yes, that's it.
Olivo is the one I was trying to think of. We traded him to the White Sox (as a PTBNL) for Chad Bradford.
Nelson Cruz was not an A’s signing. The Mets signed him out of DR and traded him to us (for Jorge Velandia) while he was still in the minors.
A couple others signed by the A’s who play with the bigs for other teams are Henry Rodríguez, Santiago Casilla, Joel Peralta, and Alexi Ogando.
Casilla’s contract ended and was not renewed. Rodríguez we sent to the Nationals in the Willingham trade last year. Peralta was waived and bounced around through several systems as a fringey reliever. The Rangers claimed Ogando from us in the AAA round of the Rule 5 draft in 2005.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Ogando was an A's signing?
Wow, I didn’t know that.
We should really stop letting our guys find their way to Texas.
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
It's sort of misleading. Ogando never actually pitched for any A's affiliates.
He was signed as an outfielder. Texas took him and converted him to pitcher.
Plus
There was the whole bit where he had trouble getting a visa for about two years.
The monster at the end of this blog.
specifically
he was banned from getting a visa for two years because of some marriage fraud thing or identity scam issue….
Jose Ortiz?
I think he also went in the Dye deal
It would be surprising if the A's got him
But for all the reasons you outlined, this absolutely needs to happen.
Related question: so, if a guy like Cespedes – major league ready talent with star potential – defects in the future, are teams really going to be limited by that $2.9 million cap? That seems … weird.
Apparently starting in 2013-14,
The amount you can spend depends on the prior year’s winning percentage. Kind of an odd system. Also, the penalty for going over is just a 100% tax on the spendings. Not really a huge barrier if another Cespedes comes along.
by danmerqury on Jan 3, 2012 8:48 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
Okay, apparently the penalty's a bit harsher than that.
Going over has penalties that harshly limit the money a team can spend internationally in the next spending period. Either way, it’s not like there’s a Cespedes/Soler every year.
It's still really gonna screw teams that don't have big international appeal
Yankees and Red Sox will pretty much be able to sign whoever they want.
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
And Rangers. I think the international appeal in the DR and Venezuela is earned
through an on-the-ground organization though.
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
Good call
Forgot about them. They’ve been killing it with their Latin signings lately, and they could very likely reap the benefits soon.
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 5:45 PM PST up reply actions
@JimBowdenESPNxm - Regarding Coco Crisp
Unconfirmed source…Coco Crisp close to returning to Oakland A’s
"You can attract a hitter but you can't make him hit" -Lou Wolff
by Geronimo Berroa on Jan 3, 2012 9:17 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Surprising
But given the uncertainty in the A’s outfield it really shouldn’t be surprising. It’s not like Coco would really be blocking anyone. There’s a lot of talk about giving the young guys a chance to play and typically I’m one of them. But shouldn’t the young guys also force the A’s hand. Making the most of their time and forcing their way into the lineup?
by Maverick10126 on Jan 3, 2012 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
I would prefer Coco over Cody Ross, that's for sure.
"You can attract a hitter but you can't make him hit" -Lou Wolff
by Geronimo Berroa on Jan 3, 2012 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Which is interesting,
because in the report, it was considered a good move to sign Ross, yet a bad move to sign Coco. I’ll take Coco any day of the week.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
That is ridiculous!
signing Ross over Crisp, to clarify.
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jan 3, 2012 7:38 PM PST up reply actions
I'm shocked that another team didnt pick him up
Maybe he loves Oakland. I thought the Nats could really use him.
by gambler on Jan 3, 2012 9:27 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
he said he wanted to play for a contender and to get paid
So my guess is he didn’t have much of a market. I read somewhere that teams now see him as a LF defensively… and with a .314 OBP in 2011 he’s not suited to lead off anymore.
I really like Crisp and I hope he can have a bounceback season while stealing more bases than anyone else in the game.
The best way for CoCo to play for a contender...
…is have a monster first half and get traded. We give the young uns a chance to prove themselves in Sac, CoCo gets guaranteed play time, we get some prospects when we trade him.
It’s inconceivable that Billy will just tell him straight that’s what he wants to do. Wins all round….
Of course it’s somewhat dependent on him having a monster first half…
It worked for Conor Jackson!
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
If that's truly the motivation behind this signing, then I'm totally cool with it
Basically turning a guy who wasn’t netting any picks/prospects into someone who will for a year’s salary. I can live with that.
"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer
by cuppingmaster on Jan 4, 2012 1:18 AM PST up reply actions
Conor Jackson had a monster 1st half?
Damn, I’d hate to see him slump.
"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"
Me too on the Nats
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
I think he really wanted to stay on the West Coast
and the Nats, while vastly improved, don’t have that much more of a shot at contending than Oakland. Philly isn’t going anywhere, and the Marlins are pushing hard – you can never rule out the Braves either.
Nationals have a wayyy better chance contending than the A's
I forget, are they adding a 5th playoff team in 2012 or 2013? If it’s next year, the Nats could quite possibly finish 3rd in the East and still get in.
They were an 80 win team last year with Ryan Zimmerman only playing in 100 games and Werth hitting at almost exactly league average (I believe he’ll rebound this year). To top it off, they just added a ~3-4 WAR pitcher in Gio that will replace the 5th spot that gave them just above replacement level for the year. Add any improvement from Lannan and Jordan Zimmerman, plus a healthy Strasburg, and that could be a 90 win team next year. Add Fielder, and they’re ready to compete with ATL and PHI to win the division.
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
Ya if they get a 2 WAR CF and a 2 WAR RF with Prince at 1B and Morse in LF
they’re a 85-90 win team.
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 3:34 PM PST up reply actions
Even without Prince
they’re a contending team. I liked them before I looked up the standings from last year, and I was shocked to find that they went 80-81 last year…
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
I'm just going by last year's performance
and what they’ve already added. Strasburg and Gio alone could add more than 5 wins fairly easily, and that number could be closer to 7 or 8 if Strasburg’s healthy all season.
Of course, they hinge on a few what ifs, but you’ve got to think a full season of Zimmerman and any sort of rebound from Werth could add another 3-4 wins. That’s 90 right there…
by stranahanahan on Jan 4, 2012 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The roto-blurbs suggest that it was Coco's choice.
Sounds like Coco had a couple different offers and made a choice between them. Possibly the Nationals and/or Orioles were among the others.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
I assume crisp costs 2 yr/10-14 mill
rather invest that amount in a Soler offer. Hope reddick, cowgill, mitchell, and later grant green can be serviceable cf options
Do we know how much $ BB has to work with
to sign a veteran CFer, spend on international FAs, spend on the draft, etc?
by Chief Bender on Jan 3, 2012 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
Not really, no.
We do know that the A’s lost money last year. One or two million. But the payroll is gonna be a lot lower.
what drives the revenue share figure that the a's get? payroll? trailing revenues?
not really asking danmerqury, but it seems a logical follow up to his post.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Simplified:
Each team calculates its net local revenues (according to accounting guidelines outlined in the agreement and subject to audit by the commissioner). Each team is charged 31% of that revenue which goes into a pool that is then evenly divided between the teams. Netting the payment into the pool with the payment out of it, some teams are net payers and some are net recipients.
The money received from the pool — which I think is about $40m for the A’s — is required to be used “in an effort to improve its performance on the field”, which the players union has insisted means payroll.
(Note there is another revenue sharing pool, where all teams get an equal portion of general revenues from national TV deals, national merchandising, etc. That too is revenue sharing, but not what people general mean when they use the term.)
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Slusser said revenue sharing over $30 million last year for Oakland
So probably closer to $30 million than $40 million, whatever the exact figure may be.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Payroll right now will sit under $30M
So, even if they cut payroll down to ~$50M, that’s $20M to work with. More than enough to sign Coco and give Soler a deal with a nice signing bonus.
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
Not quite
Bumping the minimum salary will have an effect on the rest of the roster. Right now the payroll sits in the mid-30’s.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Ah, you're right
I forgot to count Suzuki and Anderson, for some reason. So, now with Crisp it’s at right about $40M it would appear…
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
Those aren't mutually exclusive options.
Signing Coco doesn’t affect their amateur budget at all, I imagine.
Soler will probably get a Major League deal, I would assume...
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
I really hope not. They can maybe guarantee a 40 man spot in 2 years or something
if that’s allowed, but I’d hate to see him rushed for contractual reasons.
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe I'm wrong
But I would think that if there’s anything of a bidding war, if someone offers a Major League deal, he’s gonna take that deal…
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 5:56 PM PST up reply actions
Ya, he'll get to FA sooner that way whether he's ready or not.
The other way is to sign him to a 9 year deal
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
Crisp should only sign a year deal
1 year would be the appropriate bridge to when Green or Choice would be ready to take over in center.
by pachydermfan on Jan 3, 2012 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
I suspect less, thinking $8-9M and back loaded, and perhaps some incentives
perhaps on playing time (given his history)…. so whoever he gets traded to will pick up tab.
This times 100000000000000000000000000000
I cannot think of a better way to use this off season (New Stadium aside)
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 3, 2012 9:31 AM PST reply actions
Yes please!
The rebuild needs to get some bats into the organization, and this would be a great way to add a blue chip bat into the system. Please make this happen, Beane and Co.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Member of FearTheFin's Mod Squad and The Knights Who Say NI-emi...
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My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jan 3, 2012 9:45 AM PST reply actions
given that his BA is like .2 something, this is rather lukewarm, is it not?
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jan 3, 2012 7:41 PM PST up reply actions
haha yes
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jan 3, 2012 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, please I hope so
Soler Power!
"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer
by cuppingmaster on Jan 3, 2012 9:51 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
STILL FUNNY
Scott Hatteberg, English major.
by Englishmajor on Jan 4, 2012 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
Where would the A's be right now if Beltre accepted their offer?
by dennet on Jan 3, 2012 9:58 AM PST via mobile reply actions
F'ed in the A.
"As the tag line of my favorite dirty joke would have it: 'Keep your hat on. We could wind up miles from here.'" ~Kurt Vonnegut, Hocus Pocus
by Elvez on Jan 3, 2012 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Did Beltre get a no-trade clause?
Because if he didn’t get one in his mythical A’s contract, then Beane would, I’d imagine, be able to trade him for a nifty package.
just if he accepted whatever the A's offer was
They probably wouldn’t have offered a no trade clause. Come to think of it, I bet being able to trade Beltre was at least 50% of the motivation for trying to sign him.
Too bad they probably can’t do anything like that this year, without the pretense of competing. “What?!? Of course we think Prince Fielder is a fit for the A’s in 2012, why do you ask?”
by dennet on Jan 3, 2012 2:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
So what would it take to sign Soler?
Slusser says “a contract north of $20 million.”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/27/SP451MGHGT.DTL
That doesn't sound like much if Coco's getting $10M+
They should sign like 5 of him.
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
I got it from the JJ Miller comment above.
I’ve no idea what his contract looks like and I see no rumored numbers elsewhere
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
Me too
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Jan 4, 2012 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
Victor Wang's THT research gives a BA hitter ranked 11-25 at $25.1MM.
So…this is actually a good deal.
How come "north" is more and "south" is less?
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
This is because lefthanded pitchrs are almost universally worse than righthanded ones...
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jan 3, 2012 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
As in, "southpaws"
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jan 3, 2012 7:43 PM PST up reply actions
Has to do with the direction that toilets flush in each hemisphere
Counterclock-wise in the north, clock-wise in the south.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
I'd drop big money on this guy in a NY minute if what Callis and others are saying is true
Nice write up, Dan – I’m wondering if anyone could elaborate on the upcoming amateur draft and whether it would be wiser, if Soler is likely to command north of $20mil, to spend those new savings on our handful of picks in the first few rounds – I know there are new slot limits that we will likely abide by.
Also, isn’t there an even higher risk component to this type of high risk/high reward signing? Scouting is based solely on amateur play in Cuba – was he even on the national team? With less statistical information than you might have from your average NCAA player or high school stud (depending on region) – it seems like quite a gamble at $20mil. Don’t a lot of these high upside cuban position players tend to flame out?
Sure lots of high upside players from any country flame out.
Tony Perez, Minnie Minoso, Cristobal Torriente, Alejandro Oms and Jose Canseco were all pretty good though.
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
HAHAHA
Canseco was about as “Cuban” as Gio Gonzalez. His family left Havana when he was less than a year old! A little different being drafted and scouted in America after playing High School ball in one of the more prominently scouted regions in the country. Also, don’t forget Ozzie.
In fact, this is where Jose got his reputation for being 'testy' with the media
They kept approaching him with questions they would address to a non-native speaker, which got him all riled up…
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jan 3, 2012 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
more recently kendrys morales and alexei ramirez
dayan viciedo looks like he could be ok, too.
Hey Wishinsky, you can pop the champagne now.
susanslusser Susan Slusser
#Athletics trade Jai Miller to #Orioles for cash.
Or Coco
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Jan 3, 2012 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
Jai Miller and Mark Reynolds in the same lineup!
I guess that’s one way to break Reynolds’s string of seasons leading his team in Ks…
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jan 3, 2012 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Apparently the second.
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jan 3, 2012 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
YES YES YES
Athletics
#Athletics trade Jai Miller to the Baltimore #Orioles for cash considerations.
nice -
so now that the Orioles have their savior in the person of Jai Miller, they can trade Jones away to the Braves for pitching. Amazing that Billy Beane could turn Jai Miller into ANY value, even if it’s only cash considerations!
aww
thought we were going to see how he stacked up to MLB pitching this year. he had kind of a Kevin Costner in Bull Durham season.
I hope we can buy more than a bag of balls with these “cash considerations”
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
Billy working Magic
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jan 3, 2012 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
This doesn't sound like "trading" to me
So much as it does “selling”. We sold jai miller, of which I am in favor.
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
Awesome piece Dan
And my thoughts exactly. Although I’ve got to say, I wouldn’t mind bringing Coco back given that he’ll likely be fun to watch AND wind up on the disabled list still giving plenty of ABs to the other younger guys.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2012 12:03 PM PST reply actions
Beane should make a very strong push for Soler. Looks like a real blue chip hitting prospect.
And I’m very, very glad it appears Coco Crisp will be back. Solid CF, great base stealer, decent hitter, great guy. We’ll need him due to young, sparse outfield. And I like Crisp as a better option than Ross (even though I kinda like Ross).
Also, very very importantly, Crisp is a fan favorite. A’s fans get sick of seeing their favorites either traded or not resigned. Resigning Crisp will do a lot for fan relations during the rebuild.
I also like having Crisp follow Weeks at the top of the order.
by jeff-athletic on Jan 3, 2012 12:13 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
agree - Coco is huge signing in my mind
If this team is going to win games its going to be with speed, BB and pitching – because we don’t got no dang power…Having a 1-2 puch of coco and weeks to lead off is huge and will (if they stay healthy) cause a lot of problem for pitchers.
1. Crisp
2. Weeks
3. Barton
4. Allen (LF)
5. Reddick RF
6. Carter/Taylor DH
7. Kurt
8. Seizmore
9. Cliff
Could score some runs!
Lance "you sunk my" Blankenship
Jai Miller being traded away for cash is a good indicator ...
… that Billy Beane is not willing to put up with big boppers (32 dingers in Millers case) who have huge deficiencies (in Millers case, striking out at a surreal, ridiculous rate, against AAA pitching).
This gives me hope that Billy Beane is not going to put up with someone like Chris Carter, who has all the power in the world, but hasn’t been able to hit MLB pitching yet, and can’t field. At least Carter doesn’t strike out constantly. I can see Carter getting the DH spot to start the season, with a put up or shut up clause – as in he better be hitting at least .240, with a healthy dose of dingers, and decent walk rate. If he’s not doing this by the All-star break (if not sooner), Beane will ship out Carter for cash or other C-B level prospects.
Taylor will start the season with the Cats. He still needs to prove himself there, and put up better, more consistent numbers, before he’s considered MLB ready.
I think bringing Crisp back would be good, as long as it is not more than 2 years
he can mentor Jemile Weeks and it will help in the twitter and interesting hairstyle departments as well.
And I’m all for signing a high upside postion players regardless of where they are from, I’m getting tired ofonly having high upside pitchers (as in I would like a balance, since obviously pitching wins championships)
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
One and no more, IMO
Coco should be in when say, Moscoso pitches and inevitably gets 19/25 FB outs. I don’t want him to see more than 85 games or so.
"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer
by cuppingmaster on Jan 3, 2012 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
Wow! You're expecting a lot from Moosecostco!
;)
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jan 3, 2012 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
I would have been fine with one
but they probably needed to offer him two to get em.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Works for me.
Also … yay! Coco!
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Oh, shit!
And we thought Miggy and Pujols fudged their ages down!
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jan 3, 2012 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
I like the begining of the video :-)
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Got some nice abs.!
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
He literally looks like he’s 40 years old.
My religion is A'slamic.
by WhoNeedsReligionWhenYaGotBaseball on Jan 4, 2012 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
40? the last time that guy was 40 was 1840
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
by stm72 on Jan 4, 2012 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
and the offseason was going so well
amandaB729
According to an MLB source, Coco Crisp is resigning with the A’s for 2 years. CSN will have more shortly. #athletics
Could this be what made Sweeney expendable?☺
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
I think Sweeney made Sweeney expendable
by Copenhagen on Jan 3, 2012 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Hey, the smiley face was supposed to be the sarcasm font!
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
but weren't you a sweeney fan? it's okay, not a crime or anything.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Yes, I am a fan,
but I’m not so stoopid as to think he can hit 7+ HRs.:)
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
According to Buster
2 years, $13 million with a club option for the 3rd year at $7.5 million. option to buyout for $1 million
don't worry
he’ll sprain his hair or sumthin’ and the kids’ll get to play.
Death seed
blind man's greed
poets starve and children bleed
nothing he's got
he really needs
21st Century schizoid man.
by emperor nobody on Jan 3, 2012 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
and we will have him on the books for 14 million for 2 yrs (added the BO)
fucking stupid Sabean type move
oh I'm sure other teams will be dying to pick up that contract at the trade deadline!
Who wouldn’t want to spend that on a pinch runner?
We just paid $14M for a starting OFer for 2 years
who’s capable of putting up decent numbers, both with the bat and on defense.
We signed Brian Fuentes for 2 years, $10.5M.
I’ll take Coco any day of the week.
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
You can say that again.
This is a great deal for the A’s.
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
I'd much rather see someone like Reddick or hell even Cowgill
playing CF for the next two years who have a chance (however small) of being with the club in 2-3 years then paying Coco 7 mil AAV for a ~.310 obp when he will likely be 1 or 2 in the lineup. I would have be totally fine if they used that money to grab a few more SPs to help bury the kids in AAA for a bit longer.
I'd say that either of those guys is going to have plenty of chances to play
if Coco only plays about 130 games. In any case, don’t most folks around here consider Cowgill to be a 4th outfielder, anyways?
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Them not to mention Allen, Taylor, Mitchell (when healthy) et al
the point is there is no good reason in my eyes to sign him unless they are trying to appease MLBPA bean counters. If that is the case, like I said, there are plenty of SP and RP they could spend on that could be turned into prospects down the line should they wanted it. If for some reason this is spun in a different direction this rebuild is starting to make a wrong turn.
It's probably a little bit of both
But bottom line, I’m still cool with Coco coming back.
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Why is it assumed he'll put up a .310 OBP next year when his career line is .330?
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 9:10 PM PST up reply actions
Only if the years go by forward.
If they go by backward, then people get younger.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Like that Brad Pitt movie
Like that Brad Pitt Movie…..no, not that one about the A’s, the other one. Just think, Coco is 32 year old, by the time the A’s move he will be 29 and coming into his peak years
I don't remember anyone getting younger in Fight Club.
"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"
Beane
Beane was so hot in that movie….beating up Meatloaf
Coco's back pages
He was so much older then, he’s younger than that now.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
That's not a very good argument, IMO
Is there evidence to support that a player’s OBP drops between his age 32 and age 33 season?
His BABIP fell to .284 last year from .307 the year before and .303 over his career. To me, that’s why his OBP fell last year (BB rate was a bit below career, but not much). And I don’t think there’s much of an argument for saying he lost a step, considering he was successful on 49 of 58 SB attempts.
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 11:12 PM PST up reply actions
I agree it isn't a great argument but that is what I think will happen
I very well could be wrong and I’d be okay about it, but still would be pissed about the signing.
If it's your hunch, I understand it
I disagree, but I guess we’ll see at the end of the season :)
by stranahanahan on Jan 4, 2012 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
It is unlikely that Cowgill is ready to play anywhere near MLB level at CF (or any position)
My guess is he starts the year in Sac.
by Billy Frijoles on Jan 5, 2012 7:40 AM PST up reply actions
What?
He just had 450 PAs in AAA last year with a .442 wOBA (albeit, BABIP aided).
If here ever a time for him to get a shot in he Majors, it’s right now.
by stranahanahan on Jan 5, 2012 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
Good move
It puts 1 and 2 with Speed and will help score precious runs as well as help the pitchers on defense.
I'm guessing he'll bat second after Weeks
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2012 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
Problem is they don't have anyone
to actually bat second. Crisp wins by default.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2012 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
Barton is more like a #3 hitter in this warped world
of the 2012 Oakland Athletics.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2012 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
If he comes back looking like 2011 Barton, he shouldn't be in the lineup at all.
If he comes back looking like 2010 Barton, he should be #2. I don’t really see a scenario in the mix where he’s good enough to keep his regular playing time, yet isn’t as productive as Coco.
In a lineup with no power, why does it matter who bats where?
Just bat ’em in order of OBP, from high to low.
"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"
by ozzman99 on Jan 3, 2012 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Hell, let the fans choose.
Be a good way to get some butts in seats.
Do it by applause or something, or choose 1 lucky fan each night!
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 6:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, except that I'm an NRAF who probably won't attend more than 1 game.
But I’ve still got a good shot that 1 night!
"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"
It's not just numbers of PAs,
but for example, the 4th spot comes up more often with less outs than the 3rd spot.
Is that the average for all teams
or specific to a shitty team that can’t hit.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Wasn't there some research a few years ago that suggested that batting order didn't matter?
Is that still valid, or has it been disproven?
"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"
Well, according to The Book,
batting order really doesn’t matter as much as people used to think. A handful of runs, maybe a half a win spread from the most optimized to the least. That said, why not shoot for the most optimized, since it doesn’t cost the manager anything?
Bobo The First disagrees with you.
Much too complicated.
Go strictly with past performance vs. specific pitcher and let ’er roll.
“Hey, wait a minute! I didn’t mean my head!”
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jan 3, 2012 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
Who says it doesn't cost anything?
It’s so funny to me that the Book explicitly says it matters very very little, and yet Book fans still just can’t get enough of using those small bits to make up batting orders.
Nothing says it has no cost. It just has no cost that can be sabermetrically measured. Where a player is in the batting order can make the players feel comfortable or uncomfortable, respected or disrespected. The manager might know who is slightly under the weather. And so forth.
Sure these are all tiny things, but so is the optimizing by the Book.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
wow! woohoo!
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
by stm72 on Jan 3, 2012 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Re-sign
“Resigning” makes it sound like he had no other choice…
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
That is scary.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
"Intangibles"
My guess is this doesn’t have to do with wins or losses but more likely what the A’s saw in terms of his coaching and working with younger players on outfield positioning, stealing bases, and hitting. But having a competent center fielder puts less pressure on Cowgill or Reddick or whomever to play that position. If there’s no quality CF in the system, then you buy one.
Plus let's face it
He’s fun and entertaining and with a team that has very little of that right now, even little bit helps.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2012 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
This certainly gives us a familiar face to cheer.
And he is better the Ross.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Yeah to me he does
lot more things that will help the team than Ross would. Plus I imagine the A’s need to get their payroll up a little bit and this certainly helps them get there. I still believe Suzuki will be traded at some point.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2012 2:54 PM PST up reply actions
Actually, Weeks then Crisp
Not a bad start … too bad there’s nobody to bat #3….
… or #4
…. or #5
… or #6
then Pennington, Suzuki and Sizemore.
I think Barton will wind up 3
And Reddick 4, Taylor 5, Allen (or Carter) 6. But yeah, those guys are all essentially misplaced and this offense will be really, really bad.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2012 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
A guy whose greatest strength is taking walks
hitting after Weeks and Crisp might mean a lot of 2-out, bases empty BBs in the first inning.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I want a hi OBP at every slot!
(I read somewhere this is good) :)
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Yes, yes he is.☺
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Wow I like Reddick
but him hitting third. Man the reality of just how tough the A’s will be to watch in 2012 is a kidney punch with a ball shot simultaneously.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2012 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
I, for one
think Weeks’ BB rate will increase greatly next season.
by stranahanahan on Jan 3, 2012 6:59 PM PST up reply actions
This
A lot of fans are pissed about yet another rebuild, and favs like Gio, Trevor, and Andrew gone for prospects, and with the Hammer let go in FA.
Coco is a true fan favorite, so just on that level it’s good to keep him around.
Plus, he’s a damn good player, and a veteran presence, who the young guys can feed off of.
by jeff-athletic on Jan 3, 2012 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
And he'll likely get hurt at some point in 2012
freeing up the opportunity for a Michael Choice appearance. Hey, I’ve got to cling to some kind of hope for the future, right?
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 3, 2012 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
...even if he shows he's ready?
That’s ridiculous. You don’t keep a player on the farm for abstract reasons.
Seeing as he's in A+ ball now
Seeing him in 2012 seems unlikely as it is.
"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer
by cuppingmaster on Jan 4, 2012 7:02 AM PST up reply actions
There's very little way he'll look ready
I’m very much opposed to bringing him up directly from AA. He’s got to put at least a half a season in AAA before they consider bringing him up…
by stranahanahan on Jan 4, 2012 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
Even if he tears up AA this year that still doesn't put him close to
Oakland until ST ‘13. No reason in my eyes to bring him up until the latter part of that year purely for arbitration clock reasons. Like it or not teams game the clock system and while the A’s in the past have show indifference to it I wish they would, especially for the next few years while collection high draft picks.
So they don't have to waste all the left over jersey T's
"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse
What the heck?
Isn’t this the same amount per year that Willingham signed for? I don’t get it.
Willingham netted draft picks.
That rug really tied the room together...
by Streams Of Whiskey on Jan 3, 2012 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
They were both team friendly deals
They’re the same age, and Crisp put up more wins above replacement over the past two years, can play defense, and has a skill set that ages better. Even without the draft picks that the A’s picked up for Willingham, I’d rather have Coco if the money’s the same.
Glad Crisp is back. We need is veteran presence, his fielding, his speed, his base stealing.
Now, I would not be a bit surprised to see Matsui brought back.
Nobody is sold on Carter yet – he has a lot to prove. And Matsui stunk with the splits Geren was doing, but then got hot when Melvin came in. A full year under Melvin, and Matsui could give .280 with 20 dingers.
Complete waste on two levels
Signing Crisp is very stupid in 2 ways-
1) 14 million down the drain that could have been used in many different ways to possibly make the next good A’s team even better.
2) Not even one at bat in 2012 should have been wasted on a player that is not directly auditioning for the next good A’s team.
Sadly I’m certain that given his salary and Melvin’s need for the veteran presence, Crisp will take every at bat in which he’s able to limp to the plate. And for what will likely be a .310 OB% (or less, given he’s another year older).
Based on what several of you have just stated, there seems to be approval of this move.
I don’t see it.
by runnerJ on Jan 3, 2012 3:31 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
In full agreement with you
Glad it’s not my $$$s
I'm against it too. I'd rather have overpaid for Madson or someone who could be traded
midseason. Coco wouldn’t seem to have much trade value
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
I'm in full disagreement
It is a huge risk to send out all young guys, just brought up from AAA. The risk is that it could snowball in a bad way, and then set back their development.
Just imagine sending out Reddick, Cowgill, and Taylor/Allen/Mitchel. All young guys with very little MLB experience. The reasoning is give those guys as many ABs as possible, and see how they develop. But without a veteran presence and a proven mlb player to offset their inexperience, each one of those guys could start off cold, and then it could get out of hand, and snowball (all downhill) from there. And that would badly set back their development as players, particularly doing damage to their self confidence (and baseball, of all sports, is really influenced by self confidence).
There has to be a veteran presence, and proven MLB talent, in this group.
Besides, I want the young guys to force their way to MLB ABs, through their performance and development. I don’t want to just give it to them.
by jeff-athletic on Jan 3, 2012 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
There's Barton, Pennington, Weeks, Sizemore and Suzuki
Is Coco really going to be that big a veteran presence in addition to those guys?
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know that his signing was because of veteran presence.
He’s still a slightly above average baseball player. Although there was some decline from 2010 to 2011 but he played in a lot more games. That seems to be what people don’t want though. He’s almost a sure bet to get hurt and miss time so the fourth outfielder will still get some at bats.
I like this signing. Not necessarily for how much it cost to get him but I like Crisp at the top of a line up. I guess maybe I’m just stuck in the “speed at the top of a line up is a good thing” camp despite his decreasing OBP. Last year his OBP wasn’t that great but maybe he’ll be more patient this year. Obviously that’s just hope but I don’t really understand why the majority of people here seem to be upset about signing him. He has to be much much better than Ross, right?
I already said it once
but I think he will be good for Jemile Weeks (who is FAR from a veteran). Both are speedy guys with cool hair, maybe JM can relate to him.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
But didn't Coco shave it all off halfway through the season?
I’m not sure I want that kind of influence on Jemile.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
it is kind of growing back
there is still 3 months until the season starts, he has time. ;-)
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Agreed, but not so much because of the nebulous "veteran presence"
but more so due to the fact that Cowgill, Allen, and Carter are all candidates to be hitting .135 in June, which is unacceptable for any major league team regardless of its state in the success cycle. No shame in having an average player on the roster, even if it is a lost season.
Plus the A’s need to reach that “salary floor.”
by BWH on Jan 3, 2012 4:57 PM PST up reply actions
agreed, you can't start that kind of dreck for 162 games.
by Billy Frijoles on Jan 5, 2012 7:47 AM PST up reply actions
Rob Picciolo
About half the lineup in 1977 had never player in the bigs before that season (Page, Picciolo) or had about a dozen AB before the season (Gross, Murray, Tyrone, Armas, Scoot)
If Cowgill, Allen, and Carter are all batting .135 in June, then try Peterson, Taylor and Mitchell or the outfield the A;s get for Braden on July 30th
It makes sense to me
I assume we have to spend some amount of money to stay in MLB’s good graces. I don’t think this in any way inhibits international spending and player development as we seem to still have a significant budget for that and the two pools are usually kept separate. The amount we can spend there will be capped soon regardless.
Also, why start the arbitration clock on players you can stash in AAA if you are planning to be as competitive as possible in 2015? This move may keep Green or Choice down a little longer and will make them cheaper in 2015 and keep them around for an extra year on the back end.
I want to see the young guys too and for people like Carter it makes sense. But just throwing all our prospects on the opening day roster is good way to ruin a rebuild.
this is the reason
Revenue-sharing recipients are under pressure from MLB to hit a certain salary floor. The A’s will not go into 2012 with a $30-35m payroll, even if that’s all that really makes sense for them at this point.
by jdr on Jan 3, 2012 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
Looks like this is probably an easier year to really start following the team? I’ve made it a New Years Resolution to do so
"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais
by MichaelClutchtree on Jan 3, 2012 4:33 PM PST reply actions
Just Curious
Of Coco’s 49 SB does anyone know how many of those are stealing 3rd.
My friend as asking me and I thought at least 10 times.
Perspective on trades.
My girlfriend is a fan of the Seattle Storm (WNBA) and she’s gotten me semi-hooked as well. (She has season tickets and I’m now the second-string date for games where she doesn’t take her daughter.)
Yesterday the Storm traded Swin Cash and Le’coe Willingham for the 2nd-overall draft pick. Cash was for several years the team’s third-best player, behind two superstars, but was more like the fifth best last year. Willingham (compliant pork!) is a meh second-stringer.
My girlfriend was shocked, like “OMG! I can’t believe they traded those two!” but to me it was totally ho hum. I’m an A’s fan, so I expect to lose half the team every year, probably including all the best players. If they were to trade Sue Bird or Lauren Jackson (both #1 picks overall, in 2002 and 2001), that would make me sit up and take notice, but anyone else is just “eh, whatever”.
(Another bit of perspective: The trade has to do with creating room for more signings under the salary cap, which news articles tells me is … $878,000. That’s total for the whole team. Damn. I mean, don’t get me wrong, getting paid ~$60K a year to play basketball is not such a terrible fate, but it’s not even close to MLB or NBA.)
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
by iglew on Jan 3, 2012 6:57 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I actually would have been annoyed if
they traded Tanisha Wright. She’s my favorite.
Swin never did anything for me. But I only started this last year, and she had a down year.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
You don't like Johnny Cash?
Not even “Cocaine Blues” or “Folsom Prison Blues” or “A Boy Named Sue”?
"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"
Dave Cash
come on, Dave Cash was a fine second baseman
wp,s
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
It would've been better if I said "generated" instead of "drew."
Oh well, live and learn.
"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"
I have a question
Where do scouting reports come from for a guy like Soler while he was in Cuba?
Are there any legitimate scouts that can travel to the country? I suppose Canadian citizens can….
Journalists can too.
Cats and dogs living together...MASS HYSTERIA.
by Streams Of Whiskey on Jan 3, 2012 7:11 PM PST up reply actions
So scouts can see him when he plays outside of Cuba, but it sounds like DiPuglia has probably been to Cuba.
Is that the impression anyone else gets from reading that article?
"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"
Got phone call from my Pop
Pop: “Who’s this Cuban kid? He any good?”
Me: “Well, he’s highly skilled for a 19 year old. He’s got tools.”
Pop: “I got a shed full of tools. Can the son of bitch hit?”
Me: “I… the scouts seem to think so, but…”
Pop: “This is going to be Ariel Prieto all over again.”
Me: “Wow, I’m impressed you remembered Prieto’s name.”
Pop: “You don’t forget the name of a lazy asshole who steals money from you, son. Write that down.”
(note: I DID write it down.)
No mikev, no peace
Know mikev, know peace
by Mike Garza on Jan 3, 2012 8:42 PM PST reply actions 6 recs
The man is a genius!
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Hee
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 3, 2012 10:30 PM PST up reply actions
how do you remove a flag?
I tried to rec this post but flagged it. Now I can’t get rid of it.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
You didn't flag it.
It’s ok.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
oh good, thanks
I guess one needs to complete the flagging process for it to count.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Another episode of "Sh*t Mike's Pop Says"!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Wait till pitchers and catchers report
I might be taking him to spring training this year. A video blog may be in order.
No mikev, no peace
Know mikev, know peace
Ariel Prieto
Was he not a minor league coach for the A’s over the past few years?
You could build a website like Texts From Bennett, but better.
"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"
Prieto especially sucked
because we had to squander a top draft pick on him – at least Soler is merely a financial risk!
At least they didn't miss out on anyone good, Like Helton or Halladay.
"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"
Let me once again say: THIS
GREAT THREAD!
I really hope we make a move for SOLER!
Also, I was talking to my friend today who is a Colorado Rockies fan….I know right!?
Anyways, he was talking about how he loved the trade for Tyler Chatwood, and the one for Tyler Colvin. He also liked the signing of Michael Cuddyer and Ramon Hernandez (long live Hernandez!) And wouldn’t admit to liking the trade for Kevin Slowey, even though I know he did.
Why am I talking about my Colorado friend, well, it just got me thinking, “DAMN, the Rockies have been pretty active thus far….I wonder what their farm system looks like….”
I had forgotten how many desirable prospects they have at positions we really need: 3B Nolan Arenado (I know, they wouldn’t trade him), C Wilin Rosario (I know he has fallen off, maybe worth taking a risk on him? Maybe cheaper to acquire?) and SS Trevor Story
I know they are trying to trade Seth Smith as well, but that doesn’t interest me. I was wondering — here at AN wondering aloud — if we have any desirable players left to trade…..or has that passed with Gio, Bailey, and Cahill? Could we put anything together, from our current assembly of kids, for TREVOR STORY? Or would anyone be interested in taking a risk on Rosario?
My only conclusion was, the Rockies are extremely old at 1B: Todd Helton and Jason Giambi. They have a great OF and obviously have the man at SS — but their Starting Pitching and Bullpen is pathetic. So, maybe we could package:
1B Daric Barton (imagine that gap to gap power in COORS!), RP Tyson Ross, and Josh Outman for SS Trevor Story and OF Seth Smith
Not even close to enough huh?
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jan 3, 2012 11:29 PM PST reply actions
apparently
I was coming down from a drunken Pinstripe Alley Induced Buzz when writing the above Trade Proposal. Nevertheless, I’d love to make a move for Trevor Story or Willin Rosario, although it is obvious we no longer have any attractive pieces on our MLB roster.
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jan 4, 2012 12:24 AM PST up reply actions
So apparently according to SuSlu
Jai Miller was worth $45,000. Hopefully this frees up money for Soler. This guy sounds really interesting…
At first I laughed at how little the money was.
And then I cried about how much that money would be for me.
by DDroney on Jan 4, 2012 10:53 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
If Soler is looking for $20 mil, I don't think $45k will make much of a difference.
And I can’t imagine that Miller was making any significant amount of money.
"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"
And the real reason, according to MLB Rumors, for the signing
The MLB minimum for each team without getting “a slap on the wrist” is $40M, and the A’s salary burden as constituted for 2011 is approx. $33M. So the A’s are still looking at Conor Jackson (Bob Melvin’s ,man-crush), Ryan Ludwick and Cody Ross. My own feeling is that I wouldn’t mind Jackson as long as he only plays in June or later, and only if all the prospects fail. I do think the A’s could use two FA starting pitcher signings, if only to keep guys in Sacto until they’re ready.
Linkage to Olney, who wrote about it in these terms
Insider only, though:
Finding another innings-eater type in Moscoso wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. I still think Parker has some AAA time in his future.
"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer
by cuppingmaster on Jan 4, 2012 7:06 AM PST up reply actions
Finding two innings-eater types
…would probably work even better, unless you plan on seeing a lot of Graham Godfrey.
Oswalt
Sign Oswalt to a one year deal, much like the Sheets deal (only no injury..please) and then trade come June or July.
Does two things, one, keeps Parker down in AAA for half the season and two, some team like the Sox or the Yanks, will pay big when their Colon, Garcia or Silva suck on June 15th.
Even at 10-12 million a year, this would likely work….unless his arm (back) blow up.
by dougald1 on Jan 4, 2012 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I like this idea.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Your $33 million figure is incorrect
Per Cots the A’s have 8 guys signed for ~$23 million but one of those 8 is Powell, who’s been designated for assignment. McCarthy and Devine are arby eligible and are going to get ~$4 million. Crisp is going to get $6 million.
So there’s your $33 million… but that only covers 10 roster spots. The other 15 spots are going to be taken up by players making at least the league minimum of $480K; since several of the projected starters have a year or two of big league service time it’s easiest to say the 15 remaining roster slots will average at least $500K a head. $500K x 15 = $7.5 million.
The A’s current projected total payroll sits at just over $40 million.
The monster at the end of this blog.
i suppose we're done?
we hit the magical $40M mark, so unless CoJax and Co. want to sign for $1M flyers, Team Rebuild should be set.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
Then it's time to sit back and wait
The A’s can probably pull off three or four minor league contracts with players who can’t command major league salaries after a dismal 2010.
How about signing Eric Chavez to play 3B as a backup IF like the Yankees did? :)
Every man for himself...
Why not bring in Chavez
Great guy (apparently), can still hit a bit and he could back up at 3B and DH. It would be a nice PR move. I know I’ll take heat for this suggestion but a wee bit of the old mixed in with all the new wouldn’t hurt would it? Looking at the Slusser article today where she says the A’s are talking to Ludwick, Ross and CoJack….makes me a little ill. I get the Crisp move for the top of the order to go with Weeks, but do not take ABs from the young prospects by bringing in one of those dudes.
Baja been here
And Chavez can back up 1B and 3B
On the other hand, he’ll probably spend most of the season on the DL.
I wouldn't mind Chavez, in that described role, one bit.
And other guys like Ross, CoJax, Ludwick, Matsui.
1) I want at least some proven MLB players on this roster, even old, journeyman guys. You just can’t depend on a lineup that half of which is comprised of AAA guys. Mostly when guys move up to the bigs, they do it by earning it, and no more than one or two guys at a time.
2) I shudder to think about just “giving” ABs to the likes of Taylor, Carter, Allen, Mitchell, and potentially each guy is hitting in the .200 BA (or lower) range. That would be disastrous for the team, and make it into a laughing stock. And it would set back these guys’ development.
3) Fans and media are fed up with the repeated rebuild cycle, where the roster has huge changes each season, establish players are traded for prospects, and players fans like are no longer around. Bringing back Crisp will help a lot. It seems most people are excited by the re-signing. He is a fan favorite, has a high WAR, greats CF, great base runner. Bringing back Chavez – in a back up role (3B, 1B, DH), and not expecting too much for him, is a no risk, potentially good return move, and at the very least is great for fan relations. Chavez is another guy the fans love.
by jeff-athletic on Jan 4, 2012 9:00 AM PST up reply actions
What you are suggesting isn't a rebuild.
To me, it is a model for continued disaster. The only way it works, is if you spend TONS of money to buy a successful team. This won’t work with our current revenues.
When it comes to “backups” I would rather see the youngsters used in a platoon method. This allows them to get the experience, without the rigors of daily play, and allows NewBob to sit them while in a funk. Signing Chavez won’t help in any way.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
I agree with the "giving" ABs thing
Everyone talks about “giving” ABs to the young guys to see what happens. I’m all for that, but on a case by case basis. I’m for giving the opportunity to those that have earned it. I hope Taylor succeeds, but he’s being lumped in with players that probably deserve playing time over him. Some of this “giving” ABs talk would genuinely be giving guys the opportunity to prove they can repeat the success they’ve had. For others, it’d probably be flushing ABs down the toilet.
Cowgill is being viewed by many as a 4th OF and maybe he is.
At AAA last year he had a .442 wOBA and 155 wRC+ in 99 games
Taylor at AAA in 93 games
.361 wOBA and 102 wRC+
Allen in 83 games at AAA
.429 wOBA and 146 wRC+
Some people are definitely earning a look at the big league level and some aren’t. Players need to be earning their ABs, not just being given ABs because we want lightning to strike.
by Maverick10126 on Jan 4, 2012 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
What has CoJax done to earn even one AB with the A's?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
.2 fWAR so basically nothing that a player currently on the roster can alredy do.
by Maverick10126 on Jan 4, 2012 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
Ahem
Brandon Allen: MLB 2011, -.1 fWAR
Chris Carter: MLB 2011, -.6 fWAR
Daric Barton: MLB 2011, -.3 fWAR
Ahem
Allen: Rookie in 2011
Carter: Rookie in 2011
Barton: Injured in 2011
CoJax: Veteran in 2011
one of these doesn’t appear to deserve another shot
they all deserve other shots....
but the question is whether they can do what Jackson can do, and the jury is still out.
I just think we've seen what Jackson can do
not much. I think the other 3 have more potential to produce than Jackson until they prove otherwise, which they most certainly could. I would rather give AB’s to younger bats with something to prove than a 30 something who we’ve seen all he can do.
CoJax is good for versatility, but little else
He can play all outfield positions, first, and even third in a pinch.
But I don’t want him around as veteran MLB guy – he’s just too darn mediocre – about a .250 hitter, with maybe 8-10 dingers.
Cody Ross, by virtue of having more pop (can be, and has been, a 15 to 20 dinger guy), and being a pretty good outfielder, would be a lot more interesting to me.
Plus, due to his WS heroics with gnats, he’s popular with Bay Area fans and media. His presence would hopefully help at the gate. CoJax, by contrast, has zero draw.
Plus, I would not mind Godzilla being brought back. He too is a true MLB hitter (and does well under Melvin), and is popular, particularly among the Japanese contingent.
Once again, I support the rebuild fully. But for the next couple of years, I don’t want just a AAA team out there. Yes, bring up the young guys, give them ABs. But make them push their way in, while you have some proven mlb vets (however mediocre they may be) holding down the fort.
by jeff-athletic on Jan 4, 2012 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
Jackson has never played CF in the majors, and I think he'd be pretty terrible there
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I think he wants to just resign with NY
He liked not having to be the star. People talk about the pressure of playing for NY, but for him it was the opposite. There was no pressure on him.
by Maverick10126 on Jan 4, 2012 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
Why would you not just put Donaldson on the 25 man
and have him backup Suzuki and both corner infield spots (though we have plenty of backup 1B men)
I like Donaldson's arm ....
… seen him throw out a bunch of would-be base stealers at Raley field. And he has some pop in his bat.
However, his BA (in the .230 to .240 range)was a bit too low for the Cats for me to have much confidence in him at major league level.
by jeff-athletic on Jan 4, 2012 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
And in 2010 he had a .255 BABIP
Honestly, if his defense is even close to average, Suzuki should be traded at the deadline (especially if he’s hitting well) and Donaldson should start with Recker backing him up.
His age 24 year was his first year in AAA and he outperformed Suzuki in nearly every offensive category compared to Suzuki’s half season in AAA, also as a 24 year old.
To me, that’s a good indication that he’s got a more reliable bat in the majors than Kurt.
by stranahanahan on Jan 4, 2012 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
A's flawed rebuild strategy
So they obviously targeted pitch for more pitching. i have no problem getting parker (milb 17th best prospect according to mayo), peacock is in callis’ personal top 50 list, callis also said cole has the most upside from any player in both latos and gio deals.
Yet in a recent ask BA callis ranked the best 4 some of pitching prospects per team. Seattle ranked ahead of A’s (hultzen, walker, etc.). We know the rangers and mariners rotations are loaded for the next several yrs at least. The A’s advantage in producing pitching is not as great in the past, since other teams in the division are just as good.
Well - what was untrue?
Not much. Maybe the claim that the Owners are pocketing a lot of the revenue sharing cash. I thought I read that the A’s lost money even with the revenue sharing cash last year.
This:
Or in the case of the Oakland A’s, their recent fire sale and justification for said fire sale, it’s a bold-faced ploy by one opportunistic owner to win territory from another opportunistic owner so that another city can hand out another $500 million check for another boondoggle stadium.
and this:
So stop telling us about your damn Window. It’s an excuse to field terrible baseball teams and pocket tens of millions of dollars in revenue-sharing cash. Just once, it’d be great to hear the GM of a bad team drop the euphemisms. “I fucked up, and my boss wants a new stadium so he can make lots of free money. These things are not related.”
Ring true to me.
Baja been here
He was dead wrong about SJ gifting $500 million to build the A's stadium.
Wolff/Fischer are privately financing the stadium.
And that’s the big rub on their lack of desire to do it in Oakland. They need a minimal amount of revenue to be able to pay the debt service, and building in Oakland, due to lack of corporate base and historically poor attendance, wouldn’t provide that revenue.
However, they have looked at a number of sites in Oakland, going back to before Wolff took over the team (and he was a consultant working on it), including the Coliseum site (nixed by MLB), downtown Oakland (nixed by then mayor Jerry Brown in favor of apartments), 980 over-freeway site, and Victory Court. Not to mention Fremont. Nothing so far has penciled in.
So in case people are just mad at the Wolff era for being greedy carpet baggers, just look at the facts. There was effort in Oakland, and, horror of all horrors, Wolff wants to be able to recoup his investment. This is, after all, a business – it’s not a charity.
Now, all that said, Billy Beane has without a doubt made a few blunders. And he has not drafted very well in recent years. However, most of his moves have been logical and solid, and done within the very low budget restraints. The latest moves made total sense. They have totally restocked the farm system, including getting some young MLB ready talent, for three good pitchers. But even losing Trevor, Gio, and Andrew, the A’s still have plenty of pitching. They’ll still be fine in the department. It was worth it to get more young prospects for the rebuild.
In the meantime, though, as I’ve been saying all along, I think it’s important for fan and media relations to keep a guy like Crisp, and perhaps sign Cody Ross, as well as allow the young players to come along at a reasonable pace.
we've had a bit of discussion about this
over at this fANshot. I don’t see anything in that article to make me think that Beane’s comments about windows of contention aren’t true. Sure, the Rays have been good for the last four years, but that’s because they sucked for a long time and then had a lot of high draft picks succeed in the majors at the same time. But it’s really hard to do this as well as the current Rays, because there is no margin of error and every draft pick is critical. You can claim that the Rays got lucky or that they have great scouting and player development (probably some of both), but that doesn’t change the fact that small market teams can only succeed these days by dropping out of contention for long enough to build a championship core, and this strategy is very difficult to make work.
So my take on that piece is that Beane has complaints that accurately describe the state of the game for small market teams and then Jonah Keri just says “stop whining”.
by colin on Jan 4, 2012 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I loved reading Jonah's articles when he was with Fangraphs
And honestly, I haven’t read much on Grantland. Maybe I don’t like the idea of something new getting in the way of the old, which is odd because I love the writers over there. Maybe now I’ll start reading more.
But honestly, this is the worst piece I’ve ever read from Keri. I hate to say that too, because for one it makes me sound like my bias, which obviously exists, gets in the way of looking at this objectively.
But then the same goes for Keri. He’s obviously a Rays fan The man just wrote a book that some have said is the “new Moneyball.” It is obviously in his best interest to point to the more recent success of a small market team and say “this is the right way to do it.” Well, it’s been 4 years, and we have no idea what’s going to happen over the next 4. The Rays top prospects could very easily not pan out. Their star 3rd Baseman could end up getting hurt (sound familiar?). They could end up being just mediocre enough that they don’t net top draft picks and then maybe the guys they pick won’t be successful either.
And what happens then? The Front Office could make a few knee jerk moves at the hopes of contention, which fail, and then they’ll be forced to rebuild. Maybe they’ll claim the only way they can have continued success is to be able to spend money and get a new stadium.
I know Beane has made some moves that have been piss poor, but so have most GMs. Problem is, others can hide those mistakes by signing a couple of guys from the Free Agent pool, or just getting plain old lucky (Sabean). But to say that the A’s should be able to compete year in, year out on current payroll is a cheap shot from a Rays homer. And it’s also a bit premature. Time will tell how long the Rays can remain competitive.
by stranahanahan on Jan 4, 2012 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I also
think that Beane’s recent excellent moves (drafting Jemile, signing McCarthy, pulling Sizemore out of thin air) are overlooked because they aren’t bolstering a very good team. They’re good moves made by a bad team, which can cause them to get lost in the shuffle.
On the other hand, good moves made by the Rays (Soriano, Zobrist, Fuld) tend to have their influence get overstated because they’re helping a team win 90+ games, mainly on the strength of highly drafted stars.
by BWH on Jan 4, 2012 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
Drafting Jemile
was viewed suspiciously when it actually happened. Interesting that it’s an “excellent move” now.
I suppose that’s consistent though. Beane is being blamed for “bad moves” for recent draft picks that turned out poorly, so it’s only fair he gets credited for the one that is turning out well.
But really, I think all of them are educated guesses and you get some hits and some misses.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
In a way the fact that it was questioned makes it an even better move.
In a “it was so unconventional that it took BB’s genius to see Jemile’s potential” kind of way. Which is flawed logic, but no more so than if a highly regarded pick had flamed out and we all blamed the A’s poor scouting for failing to see the blunder coming.
Of course this is all a case process vs. results.
by BWH on Jan 4, 2012 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
Not just the 3B
what if the superpromising young fireballer they found in the mid-rounds of the draft, Rich Harden Matt Moore, ends up constantly hurt and unable to reach his potential?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Completely agree.
It’s unfortunate that he didn’t mention the draft one time in that article. That’s like writing an article about how the Yankees are successful and not mentioning their payroll. Additionally, he doesn’t point out the difference in MLB’s economic landscapes in 2002 and in 2012. It’s a very different world than it was even 5 or 6 years back.
Jonah Keri’s written some very good articles, but this wasn’t one of them.
by BWH on Jan 4, 2012 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
He compares the Rays to A's stadium wise
Except there isnt another team in St. Pete actively trying to block what could be a new venue. The A’s arent the Royals or Pirates because they are in a two team market that wont just come because they like baseball. There is a second option in town and baseball has shown many times what can happen if one team falls off the map in a market. (Look no further than Connie Mack’s 1950s Philly A’s)
"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse
I'm considering writing a fanpost about how wrong this article was.
by BWH on Jan 4, 2012 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
Nah I have things to do. Busy day.
Plus I don’t write about baseball semi-professionally. Seems like good fodder for a front pager, though.
by BWH on Jan 4, 2012 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
Actually I don't have that kind of time.
It’s very wrong and omits major differences between the A’s situation and the Rays’ situation, is the point.
by BWH on Jan 4, 2012 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
WHY?????
Why are we re-rebuilding again? Didn’t we just do this? Thee team was shaping up quite well with some youth and some experience and a sprinkling of All-Stars where it counts most … in the bloody starting rotation!!! But no, hell no… we don’t need no stinking all-stars!!!?!!!!!!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?! WTF!!!????!!!
Come on A’s, come Billy… what it comes down to is we have a cheapassed owner who will never be willing to spend to keep a decent team together ever. Fire sale after fire sale has become udderly rediculous and sickening to watch!!!
So, “rebuilding” or “re-rebuilding” is only a ruse by the owner to distract from the objective he truly has; which is to make as much money as he can on a shoestring budget and then sell the team for big bucks after they move to a new stadium.
As a life long fan since 1968 when they moved to Oakland, I’m totally disgusted and frankly tired of the lies and the abuse of the A’s fans by this BS owner Mr.Wolfe.
Please bring back the Hass Family as owners, allow them to make this team great again!
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