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Around SBN: Celtics Seething Over Embarrassing Loss

2012 Projected Standings (via Clay Davenport)

Clay Davenport released his projected standings last night, and I must warn some of you, I think it's a little too positive. Compared to the CAIRO standings from earlier this month (74 wins). Davenport projects the A's at 80 wins.

I get it, the CAIRO projections were done before the addition of Seth Smith and Jonny Gomes, but I really think an 80 win total is a little absurd, considering, the personnel for the 2011 squad, especially with the services of Gio Gonzalez and Trevor Cahill, only lead to 74 wins. The 2010 season was the only time in the past 5 years they've put a 80+ win squad on the field (Baseball-Reference).

Here were some keys to the 80 win projection according to Davenport:

Suzuki: 2.3 WAR
Sizemore: 3.0 WAR
Smith: 3.1 WAR
Crisp: 2.5 WAR

The pitching was calculated in RAR and in a thread about this over at THE BOOK, Dave Cameron disputes the method of calculating the RAR, so we'll just take a surface look at the WAR numbers of batters. What do you think about the projection of an 80 win season?

Click to see:
Davenport Full standings
CAIRO Standings
A's players projections


Comment 108 comments  |  7 recs  | 

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80 wins is too high

I think if Vegas put out that number as the over/under the sharps would bet the under heavily. My simulations of the 2012 season (using actual schedule, playing each game 100K times) has the Athletics win total close to the 74 number that CAIRO put out.

by Xeifrank on Jan 23, 2012 4:33 PM PST reply actions  

Yes. I think 74 might even be a on the high side.

Before the Smith and Gomes signings, with I was assuming for sure it’ll be closer to 70.

by David Fung on Jan 23, 2012 5:39 PM PST up reply actions  

With Smith and Gomes

I have the A’s at just under 79 wins. That seems high to me too, but I’m not going to worry about it yet since every time i think I have the A’s depth chart right Beane makes another trade or signing.

I don’t think they’re going to be Astros bad, mid 70s seems right.

by SGinATL on Jan 23, 2012 6:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm bracing for 72

80 would surprise me a lot.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 23, 2012 6:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Here are my latest exact numbers

for the AL West.

Rank. Team (Wins, RS, RA)
1. Texas (96.7, 866, 695)
2. LAA (89.8, 736, 652)
3. Oakland (74.2, 650, 714)
4. Seattle (71.3, 617, 713)

by Xeifrank on Jan 23, 2012 6:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I simulate

each and every game on the 2012 schedule 100K times. I add up all the runs scored and allowed from every game. Hard part is projecting playing time. I think I have a good handle on it for hitters, but for starting pitchers I am just going with a five man rotation for every team until I have a better grasp of the depth charts starting pitching wise for every team. So I probably get some slop there but not too much.

For example on the A’s opening game I have Felix Hernandez facing Brandon McCarthy. Seattle wins this game 50.42% of the time. The Mariners score on average 3.5628 runs and the A’s score on average 3.2834 (on this game) runs. So I add up the runs allowed and runs scored for all 162 games to come up with RA and RS numbers.

Hope that makes sense.

by Xeifrank on Jan 23, 2012 7:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow. We beat the King Felix M's 49.58% of the time!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 23, 2012 8:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I figured that would be the total for the season.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 24, 2012 8:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Just like last year

it will be really close between Oakland (679), Seattle (675) and probably Texas (677).

by Xeifrank on Jan 24, 2012 8:22 AM PST up reply actions  

1 out 4 teams...

I am curious how the rest of the league is predicted to give this some context.

by Glomar on Jan 24, 2012 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

So I know originally, with my Replacing Runs graphic I assumed we'd do this..

Sign a few veterans (I had said Ross/Ludwick type OF) to fill in the gaps and try to put something that’s not embarrassing out there. So the way I had it in my head, replacing our offense lost, I saw the 2012 A’s as a possible 74 win team, but that didn’t account for the loss of Gio and Cahill.

Now I’ll be working on a graphic soon to support this, but how does what we got lead to 80? I wish Davenport had some explanation.

@SGinATL, how did you get to 79 wins? I’ve been calculating using WAR in the CAIRO projections.

by David Fung on Jan 23, 2012 6:22 PM PST reply actions  

It's based on the following average playing times

Pennington,Cliff: 642 PA
Weeks,Jemile: 609 PA
Reddick,Josh: 585 PA
Suzuki,Kurt: 541 PA
Barton,Daric: 540 PA
Crisp,Coco: 528 PA
Smith,Seth: 492 PA
Sizemore,Scott: 442 PA
Allen,Brandon: 424 PA
Ka’aihue,Kila: 227 PA
Gomes,Jonny: 212 PA
Taylor,Michael: 198 PA
Rosales,Adam: 193 PA
Powell,Landon: 131 PA
Cowgill,Collin: 124 PA
Sogard,Eric: 92 PA
Cardenas,Adrian: 61 PA
Mitchell,Jermaine: 34 PA
Carter,Chris: 32 PA

McCarthy,Brandon : 172 IP
Milone,Tom : 167 IP
Parker,Jarrod : 165 IP
Colon,Bartolo : 165 IP
Peacock,Brad : 149 IP
Braden,Dallas : 101 IP
Balfour,Grant : 77 IP
Wagner,Neil : 70 IP
Ross,Tyson : 69 IP
Fuentes,Brian : 66 IP
Blevins,Jerry : 48 IP
Cook,Ryan : 46 IP
Figueroa,Pedro : 42 IP
Norberto,Jordan : 41 IP
De Los Santos,Fautino : 37 IP
Devine,Joey : 16 IP

I try to make allowances for platooning and to reward depth by generally trying not to play anyone full-time and accounting for past health record, but allocating playing time is the hardest part of doing a good forecast so these get revised constantly.

I do think the A’s will be better than most expect them to be. They traded a lot of known players, but they got a lot of talent back. Some of that talent has to be ready. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them be one of the top run prevention teams in the league.

I just don’t know where this hits will come from.

by SGinATL on Jan 24, 2012 5:04 AM PST up reply actions  

My projections don't like Carter

So I’ve got him in more of a bench role behind Allen, Ka’aihue, Gomes, Smith and Taylor. If it looks like he’ll play more regularly I’ll adjust it for the next set of simulations.

by SGinATL on Jan 24, 2012 8:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Odd breakdown

Figueroa,Noberto, Cook, Blevins, Wagner get 20+ more inning than Devine or DLS. That makes no sense at all.

This whole thing is in exercise of futillity.

by Glomar on Jan 24, 2012 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

37?

Bailey has 41.2 in a season where he lost a lot of time due to inury.

Full season closer is around 70 to 80 ip. I think.

by Glomar on Jan 24, 2012 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, it also depends on how many save opportunities arise

Also, any playing time projections for De Los Santos and Devine have to account for both having major injury histories. Given their last few seasons I don’t see how you could project them to have full season work loads.

by OkayJay81 on Jan 24, 2012 5:52 PM PST up reply actions  

It's not a prediction, it's a projection

Projections are built to minimize overall error, and therefore go for the average case and factor injury into that. It’s very possible De Los Santos pitches between 0 and 20 innings for the A’s this season. Here are his innings pitched totals for the past 4 years: 62.1, 47.1, 11.2, 23.

by laserbeams on Jan 24, 2012 7:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think 80 wins is that crazy

It does sound optimistic if you assume two things: 1) last year’s record reflected the squad’s true talent, and 2) the team made itself a lot worse with this offseason’s trades. I don’t think either of those things are true.

by laserbeams on Jan 23, 2012 6:51 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

I disagree with both. Agree that we disagree. Weird.

John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Jan 24, 2012 1:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I see 81-81

Start with 74 last year, replace half a season of Ellis and Kouzmanoff’s terrible production with full seasons out of Jemile and Sizemore, and you can’t do any worse at 1B than they did last season. I see the infield being 6 wins better than last year.

Losing Gio hurts, but Cahill was nothing that can’t be replaced. Bailey only threw around 40 innings. I say the pitching staff is 3 wins worse than last year. That gets us to 77. Then you replace DeJesus with Smith/Gomes and DH can’t get worse really than Matsui was, maybe a 3 or 4 win upgrade from the corner outfield spots and DH.

Seems like it could happen. 81-81.

by BWH on Jan 23, 2012 7:25 PM PST reply actions  

I agree with the IF/OF projections but...

If you were looking at just last years WAR, we’d be losing around 7 WAR from Gio/Cahill leaving.

74 Wins in 2011
-7 from pitching
+6 IF of Sizemore/Weeks full season
-4 (DeJesus/Willingham/Matsui)
+6 (Gomes/Smith/Reddick)

75 wins according to just calculating in my head based off of last year’s WAR as a baseline.

by David Fung on Jan 23, 2012 8:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe Melvin instead of Geren shifts a couple of games over the course of a season

and maybe we actually outplay our Pythag for once (when was the last time we did that?)

by BWH on Jan 23, 2012 8:28 PM PST up reply actions  

and we aren't replacing Gio and Cahill with 0 WAR pitchers

Milone could be 2 WAR, and Parker is a ROY candidate if he starts the season with the MLB club.

by BWH on Jan 23, 2012 8:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Add in injured players.

Last year was so bad because we had a bunch of our top players get injured multiple times on both the offense and pitching staff. Assuming everyone stays a lot healthier this year, you have to add in the WAR for Anderson, Braden, Crisp, and maybe Ross playing a lot more innings then they did last year. This puts them over the 80 win mark in my opinion.

by Mike Siegel on Jan 24, 2012 10:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Only problem I see with that

is that you can’t use last years win totals as this years baseline.

by Xeifrank on Jan 24, 2012 8:24 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I think that's exaggerated.

Each team plays 19 out of 162 games against the A’s. So even if you assume that Pujols is 8.5 WAR in 2012, and you assume he’s replacing a 0 WAR player, that still turns into just one loss for the A’s (ie, 8.5 × 19/162). Ditto for Wilson.

Those additions make it harder for the A’s to win the division, but they have little impact on the A’s W-L record.

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Jan 24, 2012 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

That's amazing that adding Darvish and Pujols to the division

comes out to less than two fewer wins for the A’s. It’s just counter-intuitive that adding two stars to the division doesn’t really make us win fewer games. Good analysis though.

John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Jan 24, 2012 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Just Pujols alone

in your example (8.5 WAR in 2012) costs the A’s one win and nets the Angels one win, which is a two win swing – which is kind of a lot. A four win swing if you ditto for Wilson. Of course Pujols and Wilson are not 8.5 WAR players. Let’s use your exercise but call Pujols a 5 WAR player and Wilson a 3 WAR pitcher which is a more realistic value over what they are replacing.

Pujols: (5 / 162) * 19 = 0.59
Wilson: (3 / 162) * 19 = 0.35
Total: 0.94, let’s call it one win.

Athletics lose one more game and the Angels win one more game for a two game swing in the standings. That’s just those two players alone. And for the Angels they pick up a few tenths of a win against many of the other teams too.

by Xeifrank on Jan 24, 2012 4:39 PM PST up reply actions  

We lose games vs. the Angels because they picked up Wilson,

but we don’t lose any games from our projected win total at all for Wilson because he was already in our division.

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Jan 24, 2012 5:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Doesnt that assume a team will put up full of replacement players?

Especially during that period of 19 games. Seems short sided to even bring that down to 19 games. How helpful is that?

by Glomar on Jan 24, 2012 5:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry

I still don’t understand what your question is.

by Xeifrank on Jan 24, 2012 7:40 PM PST up reply actions  

No, it doesn't.

It assumes that the A’s have the same players as last year, and the Angels have the same players as last year except for Pujols. Because Pujols is better than the guy he replaced, the A’s would lose one more game.

Or, Pujols would win 8.5 more games for the Angels (assuming he was replacing a replacement level player), but only one of those 8.5 would be against the A’s.

by GlassHeart on Jan 25, 2012 2:14 PM PST up reply actions  

You're talking about something different.

When you say a “two-win swing” that means +1 for the Angels and -1 for the A’s. But I’m not talking about the Angels. I’m only talking about the A’s W-L record, which is what this FanPost is all about.

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Jan 25, 2012 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure

just consider it adding something to the conversation.

by Xeifrank on Jan 25, 2012 2:35 PM PST up reply actions  

That's the thing that I don't understand with this plan

A few things, I’m not sure which way to sway on this sometimes:

A: With this plan, I don’t think the prospects should rushed in, Parker, Milone, Green, Choice, etc. I see that’s why some of the free agents were signed. Having Coco and some of the other new comers will help make this team watchable.

B: Why not give the prospects a chance part way through the season, don’t rush them, but make it clear that this is a clear rebuild, and most likely get a top 5 pick.

by David Fung on Jan 24, 2012 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

I think the only part of "the plan" that has really changed is that

whereas for the past few seasons Beane was puffed up expectations, this year he is damping them down.

This year looks pretty much the same as his usual m.o.: attempt to trade for value, trading away guys away when their stock is high and collecting guys who are near-MLB-ready; sign a couple of non-premium veterans to short contracts; attempt to be at least OK every year and then maybe get lucky from there.

The talk coming out of interviews and press releases is dramatically different this year, but the actual substance doesn’t seem much different. The W-L will probably be about the same as well, except that this year we can say “wow, the A’s did so much better than expected” instead of “wow, the A’s did so much worse than expected”. I assume this is a deliberate policy decision by the organization.

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Jan 24, 2012 1:31 PM PST up reply actions   4 recs

I totally agree

It looks like we have a team comparable to the last ones but everyone talk about record losing season.

by Rio on Jan 24, 2012 1:38 PM PST up reply actions  

That's because the spin is working.

I was tricked at first with the Gio and Cahill trades, but when you look more carefully the guys we got back really aren’t that much younger. And then the various signings since then, plus the indications that service clocks won’t be delayed on the new pitchers who are 22 or 23.

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Jan 24, 2012 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Same ol same ol

Except we totally restocked the farm and now have what is #10 according to Sickels

2012 Baseball Farm System Rankings

by David Fung on Jan 24, 2012 11:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Completely agree with this

Very insightful. The big early trades really did give the impression of a wholesale rebuild, but on closer examination they didn’t actually make the MLB team that much worse. All of the subsequent moves have been vintage recent Beane, which I don’t see as a bad thing at all. Anything can happen in a baseball season and Beane’s philosophy seems to be to stay positioned every year to take advantage of lucky breaks. With a true “suck for a while” rebuild, there wouldn’t be that option.

And with the chance of a 5th playoff spot being added, I think it’s more imperative than ever to keep flexibility rather than sucking on purpose and risking the fate of being the Pirates for the possibility of being the Rays in 5 years.

I think he’s done an admirable job of rebuilding the overall talent level in the organization. I am far, far more optimistic about this squad – not just in 2015, but this season and next – than I have been in a while.

by laserbeams on Jan 24, 2012 1:55 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Well, we haven't usually traded away a Gio and a Cahill and a Bailey

It’s a pretty clear “now for future rebuild” this time around, and expectations should match.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 24, 2012 6:00 PM PST up reply actions  

To me this looks a lot like the 2004-2005 rebuild

When Beane broke up the by-then-overvalued big 3 and the team didn’t miss a beat. He got younger and built for the future without making the team worse.

The problem is that at that time the team was actually good to start with, so not getting worse was a good thing. Today, it’s not as exciting.

by laserbeams on Jan 24, 2012 7:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Plus, we seem to sign Frank Thomas about every 3 seasons, so...

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 24, 2012 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

This very well could be, but wouldn't increased expectations increase season ticket

sales? Why not puff expectations in the offseason?

I’m wondering whether the “full scale rebuild” was the plan when they thought they were getting permission to move to SJ, but now they’re not so sure that they will get that anytime soon. So they’re going back to the “let’s win 74 games” strategy.

tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 27, 2012 3:02 AM PST up reply actions  

This is quite possible.

I’ve sort of come to embrace the limbo at this point. I absolutely love going to games at the Coliseum and especially since the Angels and Rangers are so powerful right now, it’s not like we would win anything even if we signed Fielder and kept Gio and Cahill. So I’ll just enjoy the remaining years at our decrepit home.

Also with every lingering delay I keep hoping that Lew will sell the team to an owner that can actually get something done (in Oakland or SJ or somewhere else in the Bay Area) instead of simply complaining to the media about their inability to get something done. Also, as OaklandSi has pointed out from her conversations with city of Oakland officials, A’s brass has refused to meet with anyone from City government for a few years now. I believe this is bad policy for the fans because if there is a way to get traction in Oakland and move something forward, why not keep that door open? I would prefer someone at the top who could successfully navigate this complex process, which Wolff has proved incapable of doing to this point.

While I am not really happy about the constant bullshit from MLB and the Giants, I’ve basically just decided to look at the positives and not worry about it anymore. Fine, we’ll be mediocre for the next few years while this limbo continues. If we had a new stadium and increased revenue tomorrow I believe we would still be competing for 3rd place in our division, so whatever. I’ll just kick back at the Coliseum and enjoy the baseball.

However, there is a difference in being bad with a hope of improving (i.e. an actual rebuild) or being bad with a bunch of mediocre veterans on one-year contracts. I really hope we are not going down that road for 2012-13. So I hope that the limbo does not mean the “let’s win 74 games strategy” is back. I hope it means let’s plan to win 90 games in 2014-15. A rebuild is needed with or without a new stadium.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 27, 2012 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Limbo?

From everything I’ve read, the decision will come in February and it will be in favor of the move to San Jose.

I think Beane is trying to assemble a team that can gradually be improved upon as each member of the team (Crisp and a couple of relievers excepted) proves or doesn’t prove he belongs with the club down the road. I think a lot of his choices have been inexplicable, but I think that’s the strategy.

by richwol1 on Jan 27, 2012 12:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I think that's the standard theory.

That is, puffing up expectations helps sell tickets, and so that’s what they did for the past four or five seasons. But maybe they got too much blowback for the team “underperforming” year after year so they decided to try it the other way this time.

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Jan 27, 2012 1:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Or they realized the situation was just too toxic at this point

Maybe the last couple years have shown that trying puff up expectations really wasn’t helping at this point.

by OkayJay81 on Jan 27, 2012 1:48 PM PST up reply actions  

it's pretty impossible to puff up anything when the casual fan sees

Willingham left as a free agent, and Gio, Cahill, and Bailey traded.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 27, 2012 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Now we can relax..

…Susan S. says the A’s want to sign Conor Jackson.

I, for one, am very relieved. He’s such a great player. He’s such a great fielder. He’s got such a great cleft in his chin. If he wasn’t a baseball player, he could stand in for Henry Cavill in the new Superman movie.

by richwol1 on Jan 27, 2012 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

LUMBERJACKSON!

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Jan 27, 2012 8:12 PM PST up reply actions  

David Fung, Xeifrank, SGinATL

Thanks for the good work and crazy amount of time you put into these simulations/predictions.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 24, 2012 10:07 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

I agree

This is the best read so far in 2012 on AN

by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 25, 2012 2:56 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Obviously I didn't write the Davenport projections

But I did write this Fanpost just for us. I’ll be contributing more in the future in terms of regular features like some of the pieces I do at Beyond the Box Score

by David Fung on Jan 27, 2012 8:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Right! Thanks dude!

I actually meant XeiFrank and whoever else did projections and didn’t write the post.

tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 29, 2012 10:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Is Davenport doing team PECOTA, or

is he doing his own thing now? I seem to recall that team PECOTA tended to overproject the A’s.

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Jan 24, 2012 10:42 AM PST reply actions  

Why did we not go after these players?

I just saw the signing of Betemit for 3Mil: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/orioles-agree-to-terms-with-wilson-betemit.html

And Pena for 7.25mil: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/rays-to-sign-carlos-pena.html

That’s probably exactly what I would have paid them and it isn’t too expensive. Betemit would have been an improvement over Sizemore at 3B and Pena could DH. These are the cheap impact players that the A’s should be going after. What do you think?

by Mike Siegel on Jan 24, 2012 1:21 PM PST reply actions  

I don't expect Wilson Betemit to be significantly better

than Scott Sizemore. In WAR last year, Sizemore was slightly better. He’s a few years younger, too.

I’m not sold on the Peña idea, either. He’s a good player, but he’s not that much better than Gomes or Crisp.

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Jan 24, 2012 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Like iglew I think Betemit is not better maybe even worse than Sizemore

With Pena I think they like their candidates in Kila, Barton, Allen and Carter enough to hold 1B/DH open for them.
In the outfield they seem to not have much confidence in Cowgill, Mitchell and Taylor, so they got Smith and Gomez.

by Rio on Jan 24, 2012 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

The players that made me say

“Damn, I wish the A’s had been in on that” were Slowey and Scutaro. Two guys who apparently could have been picked up for basically nothing. Last year Napoli was that player for me.

by laserbeams on Jan 24, 2012 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Same for me: Slowey and Napoli were the ones that bugged me.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 24, 2012 6:01 PM PST up reply actions  

It's funny

Had Napoli played exactly as expected last year (he had a .251/.346/.485 career line to that point), it still would have been really confusing that the A’s weren’t in on him. We’re talking a guy who could play passably at C, had hit like a DH, would free up Suzuki to be traded for other useful parts, was making $5.8 million, and for whom Toronto was asking one good reliever. And then, to make things worse, Napoli’s 2011 happened. If only…

I was pretty upset about that one. I have a feeling Slowey’s going to make the A’s look stupid for not getting in on him as well. Scutaro – we all know he’s good but not great and there’s no real upside there, but the fact that he was acquired for Clay Mortenson really stings. A’s should have given that a shot. If they could have gotten him for nothing, they’d have a solid SS for this season and could ship out Pennington, whom I’m not a big fan of, for something useful.

by laserbeams on Jan 24, 2012 7:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not so concerned about Scutaro,

because he’s really a better 2Bman and he’s reaching the age where his best years are in the rear view mirror. But the other two are “Beane classic targets” that we didn’t get in on.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 24, 2012 7:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see the value

Sizemore is a young player whose value is comparable to Betemit’s right now, except that we have him on a minimum salary and under control for the next 5 years. Also he has a chance to improve, whereas I think we can agree that Betemit is pretty much what he is at this point.

Since we have at least 4 players (maybe more) in the 1B/DH mix, I again don’t see the point of picking up Pena. His WAR for the past 4 years shows an exceedingly average player: 2.9, 1.7, 1.3, 2.2. What does that do for us that our 4+-headed 1B/DH monster doesn’t do? At most, probably 2 wins more, and blocks a young player. No thanks.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 24, 2012 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Sizemore

He can a good offensive player. Nothing special but MLB average.

The key with him is how he progresses at 3b. He got thrown into last season. I think he has the stuff to adjust and become at least average.

by Glomar on Jan 24, 2012 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Juan Pierre

Now Juan Pierre. Why don’t the A’s get in on anyone relevant?

by Mike Siegel on Jan 27, 2012 8:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Wait, are you saying that Pierre is relevant or irrelevant?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 27, 2012 9:42 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm saying I wanted him on our team.

There are so many good not too expensive FA’s that would be a great fit for Oakland. We always miss out on them and it’s frustrating, I didn’t mean to post this as a reply to the above, it meant to go under my other post about Betemit and Pena.

by Mike Siegel on Jan 27, 2012 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't have been happy if the A's had signed Pierre

He fills the same role as Crisp, except he gets caught stealing way more, has less power, and is more durable – which I don’t think is a virtue on this team. I’m not unhappy about the thought of Reddick or Cowgill getting some extended time in CF.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 27, 2012 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh, and Pierre is more than 2 years older than Crisp, as well

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 27, 2012 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

What does he bring to the table that our current OFs do not?

Oh yeah, nothing. Low OBP, poor CS%, subpar fielding. Woo hoo.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 27, 2012 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Experience and he can hit both LHP and RHP.

Besides Crisp, I would rather have Pierre in either of the other 2 outfield spots over who we expect to currently be there. I’m not saying getting Reddick, Gomes, Smith, and Cowgill was a bad thing, I’m just saying getting Pierre on top of that would be a great thing. Our OF looked like this, Crips, Pierre, Reddick/Gomes/Smith/Cowgill. If needed somebody can DH a bit.

We could have signed Pierre for 1 or 2 years and cheap. Adding more speed and proven experience than the other 4 young OF we “hope” to perform in a full season.

by Mike Siegel on Jan 27, 2012 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

The main thing he has experience at seems to be making outs

(note the “s” at the end of that word, there…)

He’s #8 all time in CS (compared to #26 in SB), and since 2002 he’s led his league in outs made (at the plate) 3 times, finished 2nd on 3 other occasions, and came in 3rd once. I really don’t see what he could possibly add to the offense.

He’s not a good hitter (the last year he put up even 2 oWAR was 2004), he’s not a good basestealer, he’s only an occasionally good defensive player, and he’s 34. Why would we take PAs away from Reddick or Smith or even Cowgill for that?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 27, 2012 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

He can hit both LHP and RHP? You mean in the face?

tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 29, 2012 10:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Biggest outlier in the individual projections: Milone

According to the link, he’ll have a staff-best 3.66 ERA and a RAR roughly on par with Braden. That’s certainly in the realm of possibilty, but I don’t see that as the most likely scenario. It was projected that Peacock also does quite well and only Parker struggles.

Is the offense that much off the mark? No one has a projected OBP more than Baton’s .353. Only Smith and Reddick slug above .400.

I’ve been thinking for a while we’ll be just about the team we’ve been the last three years. Sitting right around that 75-80 win mark. Above average pitching, below average hitting.

by Ciderbeck on Jan 24, 2012 2:16 PM PST reply actions  

I'm excited about Milone.

I expect to vote for him five or six times in the prospect poll while I wait for the rest of the electorate to catch up with me.

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Jan 24, 2012 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

There's a prospect poll?

tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 29, 2012 10:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Zonis does that here.

The question is whether the poll will take the form of a poll. There’s currently a poll on that point.

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Jan 29, 2012 7:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think we should just put these questions up for a poll

I think we need a poll on whether there should be a poll on “should we use a poll?”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 29, 2012 7:15 PM PST up reply actions  

true.

i was spacing out. i didn’t realize what you were talking about was the community prospect poll.

by David Fung on Jan 29, 2012 10:04 PM PST up reply actions  

That's what we're talking about?

I was talking about Polish people and large structures of sidewalk lamps.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 30, 2012 9:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I see a really odd projection there

Chris Carter, with a .245 BA and .322 OBP and only having a bit over a hundred AB. There’s no way, if Chris Carter can put up that kind of batting average and on base percentage that he’s going to have that few at bats. Here’s a guy who would conceivably be the best power hitter on the team.

Either this guys winds up working for Aramark or he has over 25 HR. I don’t see anything in between.

by richwol1 on Jan 26, 2012 8:30 PM PST up reply actions  

A's win 98

and go to the World Series

by coachmmm on Jan 24, 2012 9:25 PM PST reply actions  

Seems reasonable.

Assuming, of course, that there’s one World Series for 2012-13.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 24, 2012 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

And of course

The game doesn’t sell out and they manage to find 25 tickets.

by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 25, 2012 3:19 AM PST up reply actions  

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