The A's of 2012 or is it 1977

by dougald1 on Jan 22, 2012 6:55 AM PST

Is it just me or does this A's season coming up begin to look more and more like some redo from 1977?

The A's bring in a former MVP, that has had "issues" in the past. 1977 Dick Allen or 2012 Manny? Funny thing, Allen only played about 50 games to start the year and Manny can't start untill after 50 games.

The Charlie O Finley spends all winter and into the season talking to Denver or New Orleans, or is it San Jose about moving the team. ( I still break out into a rash thinking about how each week I would get the Sporting News, and each team would have a write up about some player of theirs. But not the A's, there write up would be about Marvin Freaking Davis, and Denver...boy that sucked. The only news I get about the A's as a kid growing up in New England and it is this...ok so I rant...I am over it)

The A's lose a bunch of free agents, but do keep there fast centerfielder Billy North, or Coco Crisp. I hope Coico plays more than the 56 games North was able to play.

The A's trade their two best starters as the season begins......ok to be fair, Cahill and Gio are gone, and in 1977 Mike Torrez lasted 4 starts before he was shipped to NY and Blue was traded after the season. But 1977 and 1978 sometimes blur, as I get older, so just work with me.

The roll of Joe Coleman, elder statesman starting pitch, well past his prime, will be played B Colon.

......Pennington and Picciolo.....does this mean Pennington will be the Padres 3rd base coach in ten years?

The A's trade anything that Finley thinks he can get money for (Lindblad,Medich, Ellis, Umbarger, Washington) as the season move forward, while Beane trades players for prospects (Fuentes, Balfour, Smith, Gomes, Suzuki)

The Selig/ Kuhn seem to hold the fate of the A's in their hands. Stopping trades or stopping team moves.

Ok, maybe not everything is the same, but it seems to me that there is a lot of that deja vu going on. All we need is our best young second baseman being traded to Pittsburg. Weeks (Garner) for Page, Langford, Armas, Bair ...or maybe we can trade a manager for a catcher.

Doug Melvin, keep your bags packed.

Tweet Comment 41 comments | 5 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Pennington /= Picciolo

Because he can take a walk.

Pennington drew 50 walks in 2010. Picciolo drew 25 walks total in 9 major league season. Was it that he swung at everything or did pitchers just grove it to him knowing that he was going to amass a career ISO slugging % of .078?

Seriously, I have an interest in Picciolo because he was so bad. I mean, what did he do to warrant being on a major league roster? -2.0 WAR in 1977. Aside from standing at SS for 148 games, presumably holding a glove fashioned out of cowhide, what did he do?

I like to imagine that was some sort of king of intangibles, or that he sort of stumbled through life like Agent Smart or Inspector Gadget and woke up one day and found himself to be a major league SS. Not a replacement level player but a major league SS none the less. Or maybe he had naked pictures of Charlie Finley and was able to parlay that into a major league career that saw him play for 3 teams and now become a coach?

Seriously, can somebody who saw Picciolo play tell me something about him? The numbers indicate that he was awful. I am sure he was, but why did he stick around for so long?

Slegna must die!

by Athletics fan and runner on Jan 22, 2012 8:12 AM PST reply actions 1 recs

Picciolo was a decent fielder...

But how do you come in and replace Campy Campaneris? We replaced a perennial threat for capturing the AL stolen base record (along with North) who always at the top of the lineup and repeat ALL STAR with Rob Picciolo who was playing now alongside Wayne Gross instead of Sal Bando, another perennial ALL STAR and commonly found between 3-4-5 in the lineup.

Wayne Gross was GREAT at going after balls in foul territory but he had no range in the infield. The left side of our infield was just never the same until Weiss and Lansford were brought in.

Picciolo was a weak bat…but I can say I enjoyed a game at the Coliseum in which Earl Weaver brought in the LF to play shallow with the bases loaded and Picciiolo turned a routine deep fly ball into a triple. That might have been the farthest he ever hit a ball but a TRIPLE is a TRIPLE!

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Jan 22, 2012 8:34 AM PST up reply actions

Good fielder?

Or decent? baseball reference has him at -2.3 dWAR for his career. I understand that is not the best metric and traditional fielding stats (i.e. fielding % and range factor) have him as slightly above league average. I guess he was decent as a defender. His career OPS+ of 56 compairs well to Mario Mendoza (41 career OPS+. Wow, in 1979 the AL west had a few really weak hitting shortstops…..).

I think that the explanation that dougald1 below presents is the best. The A’s had nobody else at the time and in a down year decided to see what he could do.

The triple story sounds awesome, by the way. I would love to see that box score if you could tell me the year I bet we could find it.

This is why I love AN. Where else could we talk about Rob Picciolo with such joy.

Slegna must die!

by Athletics fan and runner on Jan 22, 2012 8:54 AM PST up reply actions

Coach

I think it says something about Picciolo, that he was a coach for the Padres for 10 years.

The A’s just did not have much else. Fred Stanley was just an older version of Picciolo, Micky Klutts was always hurt. Mario Guerrero took over in 1978, but was hurt I believe in 1979. A’s a fan at the time, I do not recall any minor league SS, that even looked like a possible replacement. With Garner being traded and Campy a free agent, the A’s had to replace both positions. Picciolo hit .290 something at AAA, so I guess that Finley just figured, why not roll him out there and see if he gets better. The only other year he played much was when Mario was hurt in 1979.

He was a favorite of my Mom, I think she just like the name.

by dougald1 on Jan 22, 2012 8:41 AM PST up reply actions

Yes it does.

I am not sure what but there is something to it as there is high turnover among coaches. He obviously knows something about the game. Good on him for making a career out of baseball. I would certainly trade places with him in a second.

Slegna must die!

by Athletics fan and runner on Jan 22, 2012 8:48 AM PST up reply actions

Picciolo...

Pretty good fielder. Terrible with the bat.

He is one of my boyhood faves because he would visit our church in Hayward and hang out with us. A real cool guy…

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was an idiot.

by the_rozeboom on Jan 22, 2012 6:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

nice!

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 22, 2012 9:31 PM PST via Android app up reply actions

Maybe attendance wise

I can remember going to a game leave my seat go get a hotdog and miss only 2 pitches. You could buy a $2 seat in third deck and go down behind the A’s dugout. 1 game I was at didn’t even have 3,000 there.

by Arcman on Jan 22, 2012 8:24 AM PST reply actions

Did they actually sign Manny?

I don’t see that anywhere.

by Waiver Claim on Jan 22, 2012 9:28 AM PST reply actions

no, it's only a rumor that has not been even sniffed at by anyone working for the A's

by OaklandSi on Jan 22, 2012 10:09 AM PST up reply actions

not yet

Not yet, maybe Beane is rethinking the whole sign Dick Allen, or Manny thing

by dougald1 on Jan 22, 2012 9:39 AM PST reply actions

Finley was just rolling the dice all over the field (pardon the mixed metaphor)

He hit on Mitchell Page (short term) and Tony Armas. He missed on a lot of other guys. But at the dawn of free agency, he was cutting salary and guys like Picciolo were cheap. Bowie Kuhn voided the proposed trades that would have brought in money to pay salary for some of the vets (or so Finley alleged). So the roster was filled with guys to see who could play, much like the clamoring on the AN boards for guys like Carter, Allen, and others. The A’s even threw Mike Morgan out there, a kid right out of high school.

Not many fans showed up, but it was still fun to go see a game then. And when the 80’s rolled around with BillyBall and the Bash Brothers, teams like the ‘77 A’s were a distant memory. Not a bad memory, mind you, as they were still MY Oakland A’s. Even Rob Picciolo.

JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker

by JJ Martin on Jan 22, 2012 1:12 PM PST reply actions

rolling the dice

One of the interesting things about the 1977 A’s was that there was so many players that had never played or only had a cup of coffee in the majors. Gross, Scott, Picciolo, Armas, Page, Tyrone, Tabb, Mallory, Mark Williams and Murray had about 100 AB all together, before the 1977 season. Those nine had about 3200 AB in 1977.

The other odd thing is that at least 9 guys off the team were out of baseball or at least never got back to the show, by some point in 1978. (Earl Williams, Murray, Tabb, Tyrone, Allen, Perez, Lintz, Crawford and Mark Williams) And that just hitters of which there was only 22 guys used all year.

by dougald1 on Jan 22, 2012 2:06 PM PST up reply actions

Ah, '77

The A’s were coming off a 9-year stretch of averaging 91 wins. Then they all left. Campy, Rudi, Tenace, Fingers, Bando…everyone but Vida and North. They went 63-99and finished in last place, even behind the expansion Mariners. I was 10 years old, and had only known winning baseball. 1977 was…painful. Yet I still look back fondly on that team of has-been’s, not-quite-yet’s, and never-would-be’s.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 22, 2012 3:29 PM PST reply actions

learn

For me, it was the intro to money = baseball.

Never again will anyone be able to talk to me about how much talent their team lost in players to free agency. In the baseball world of the 1960’s and before, this team would have contiued to win and make the playoffs for 4 or 5 more years.

It is kinda sad, that world of Baseball, be it the media or MLB itself, did not understand how big a story it was at the time.

by dougald1 on Jan 22, 2012 4:37 PM PST up reply actions

Ya know...

…as much as it sucked back at the time, I look back fondly also.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz.
~Humphrey Bogart

by UncleLeo on Jan 22, 2012 7:54 PM PST up reply actions

I'm already looking back fondly on the sucky 2012 A's.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 22, 2012 7:59 PM PST up reply actions

It will suck worse if they only stink bad enough to get the 10th pick

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 22, 2012 8:25 PM PST up reply actions

And for all that 1977 suckage

here’s what happened in the 1978 draft.

Mike Morgan and Tim Conroy never accomplished much with the A’s, unfortunately. One weird thing I noticed: the A’s finished the 1977 season a half game worse than the Mets, but the Mets picked one slot ahead of the A’s in the 1978 draft. How does that happen? The Mets picked Hubie Brooks at #3. Oakland native Lloyd Moseby went to the Blue Jays at #2 — they also picked Dave Stieb in the 5th round.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 23, 2012 10:03 AM PST reply actions

Draft

As I recall the draft went back an forth between the leagues, NL, AL, NL, AL. Not sure what year the changed.

The Morgan and Conroy draft brings up the what if question. Every few years a major league team will draft a pitcher, and then rush them into the majors, with little or no time in the minors. The Red Sox just did it in 2005, with Craig Hansen taken in the 1st round.

How many years did it take for Morgan and Conroy to recover from being pitching at 18 in the show? It is kinda amazing they even got back to the majors. If they were just sent to the minors, would they have both been ready for the show in 1980 or 1981?

by dougald1 on Jan 23, 2012 3:57 PM PST up reply actions

Wayne Gross

Had 15 HR’s by the all star break….7 the rest of the season. He made the All Star team that year. He was an A’s farm hand and came up for a look at the end of the 76 season. I can remember him tearing his ankle up in Chicago going after a foul pop up…it was ugly, caught hid foot in a chain link fence and falling the opposite direction of his foot. Dick Allen had WAMPUM on his back instead of his name. It was a tough season, but I enjoyed it. One funny thing was Jack Mckeon was replaced as manager mid season by Bobby Winkles. in 78, with the A’s in first place, Winkles quit and was replaced by McKeon. With Charlie around it was never dull.

Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969

by billyball1981 on Jan 23, 2012 12:32 PM PST reply actions

There are some interesting parallels,

but what Finley was doing in the late 70’s had a real scorched-earth vibe to it. He did get a modest haul from the Garner and Sanguillen trades, but I don’t recall anybody calling it a “rebuild” at the time. (maybe Finley tried to spin it that way, but I honestly can’t remember) He certainly was upfront about his desire to move the team, or better yet to sell it to Marvin Davis. He wasn’t the least bit interested in a shiny new ballpark somewhere else in the Bay Area. He wanted out.

We’re all girding our loins for a couple of years of big-time suck, but if 2012 is the new 1977, I doubt that 2014 will be the new 1979. Of course, the A’s own my heart regardless. Dammit Lew, do the right thing by me…by all of us!

Sisko: All right Niners, let's hear some chatter!
Kasidy: Hey batterbatterbatterbatterbatter!
Leeta: Hey batterbatterbatter! Batterbatterbatterbatter!
Worf: DEATH TO THE OPPOSITION!!!

by CmdrKhraanik on Jan 23, 2012 12:36 PM PST reply actions

Finley's life was a mess

Charlie’s life was in a tailspin. His Insurance business was failing, his wife and he were in the middle of a very nasty divorce. His health was bad, so not much was going right for him. As usual, he wanted control of everything and would not let anyone help him, and yes he was a tightwad. He had lost interest in the A’s, and just wanted to sell the team, but the city of Oakland would not let the team out of the lease, which expired in 1988. After reading a recent biography of him, I had a greater understanding of why he did what he did, and more respect for him. I sure like him more than our current owners.

Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969

by billyball1981 on Jan 23, 2012 12:56 PM PST reply actions

Like him

You like him, because you were not playing for him.

But as as fan he was interesting. Which book?

by dougald1 on Jan 23, 2012 3:35 PM PST up reply actions

I like him more...than our current owners.

The book is “Charlie Finley, Baseballs Outrageous Super Showman.” It is a good read.

Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969

by billyball1981 on Jan 23, 2012 5:18 PM PST up reply actions

yes,

yes good read, I have that one

by dougald1 on Jan 23, 2012 7:49 PM PST up reply actions

Loved that book.

It really gave Charlie some depth. He is generally portrayed as a penurious tyrant, and he was. But he was a human being, and none of us are one-dimensional. I was only vaguely aware of how ugly his divorce from Shirley was before I read this. Also, I seem to remember a Dick Williams autobiography from years ago where he, in retrospect, had some kind words for his former employer. (bear in mind, Williams resigned in disgust following the Mike Andrews incident during the 1973 World Series, probably one of the skeeziest things Finley ever pulled) I highly recommend the book.

(phone rings)

“Jim? Charlie. I…need…my…money.”

Sisko: All right Niners, let's hear some chatter!
Kasidy: Hey batterbatterbatterbatterbatter!
Leeta: Hey batterbatterbatter! Batterbatterbatterbatter!
Worf: DEATH TO THE OPPOSITION!!!

by CmdrKhraanik on Jan 24, 2012 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

So you think Usain Bolt will steal 50 bases for us off the bench?

Time to hire some sprinters again and watch ’em tear it up on the basepaths?

For those who don’t know, the 70’s A’s hold a special place in baseball history for being a team that routinely carried a pinch running specialist on the squad. The 1976 team has three pinch runners and stole a major league record 341 bases (only a handful of teams have ever even stolen 300+). Herb Washington is perhap the most famous. He was a sprinter who had never played baseball. Had to be taught how to the run the basepaths.

Here’s an article on the exploits of the A’s pinch runners.

by Ciderbeck on Jan 23, 2012 5:50 PM PST reply actions

Allan Lewis, Matt Alexander

Who else?
Washington was the most famous and he had the baseball card that simply said, “Pinch Runner”. I saw that card as a kid, it belonged to an older cousin (I was born in 1977 and thus learned about the Swinging A’s era A’s 3 times world series champion 5 time AL West champion team via books, word of mouth, and the like). I thought it was the most awesome thing ever.

And we already know Bolt looks good in green and gold. IT would be one hell of a PR stunt. That would be fun.

Slegna must die!

by Athletics fan and runner on Jan 23, 2012 6:34 PM PST up reply actions

Larry Lintz

Had one of the great all time end of the season stat lines in 1976.

Games 68, AB 1, Runs 21, SB 31, ….kinda cool

by dougald1 on Jan 23, 2012 7:46 PM PST up reply actions

also Don Hopkins

Very similar to Lintz, here’s Hopkins’ 1975 line:

Games 82, PA 8, Runs 25, SB 21/30, 10 total innings of fielding

His BR Bullpen article is tidy little read.

I like the guy because his name sounds so much like the Maryland school Johns Hopkins. I imagine there’s an alternate universe where our pinch runner ended his career and founded an East Coast baseball academy.

by Ciderbeck on Jan 24, 2012 12:16 PM PST up reply actions