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Around SBN: Celtics Need To Get In The Zone

Brandon Allen on the block?

Just started seeing mention of this, and I gotta say, without providing a whole lot of stats to corroborate, that this seems like a bad idea. I mean, what's the harm in hanging on to him and see how Spring Training plays out? Pretty safe to say one of Kila, Carter, Allen is going to make the decision for us and I was impressed with Allen...he struggled after the initial surge, but the athleticism was surprising, and I gotta believe he's got more to show on the upside. Carter / Allen DH / 1B / OF when necessary...? Allen's 25 - not sure on Carter / Kila, but they're pretty close in age I think. Carter still has an option, right? I also don't feel like we're going to get much in return for Allen right now, but, if he shows well in ST...and let's say another of either Carter / Kila also do well...the value increases. Just don't see / understand why we'd shop him right now without letting ST guide us... big big mistake, imho..

Poll
do we trade Allen or let him show us what he can do and let ST decide who goes.
Trade Allen now - he's redundant
37 votes
Let ST battle royale decide who stays
217 votes

254 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 60 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Barton

I think this means that Barton is still the guy at 1B. They were upset with him last year, but he just turned 26 and has done way more than Allen at the MLB level.

Both players sucked in 2011, but Barton was hurt, Allen wasn’t.

by drink on Jan 19, 2012 8:24 AM PST reply actions  

Barton

was demoted for his poor play..then 5 weeks after demotion he went on dl in triple A

Ray Fosse thinks Pete Rose is a prick......

by oakwin2004 on Jan 21, 2012 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

This

If the last 5 or 6 weeks is any indication then yes. He sucked something awful.

Having said that, he should be given a chance in ST and maybe the different hitting instructor may help him.

by Trainman on Jan 19, 2012 10:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Kind of like the decided their jury on Carlos Gonzalez

… not taking the next step at the ML level?

Oakland Athletics * St. Bonaventure Bonnies * Green Bay Packers * Buffalo Sabres * New York Knicks

by RyanFromBonas on Jan 19, 2012 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Or Carlos Pena / Nelson Cruz

Maybe they should hire a decent hitting coach and help these power hitters develop….

"Baseball is like a church. Many attend, but few understand." - Wes Westrum

by oaklandfan40 on Jan 19, 2012 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Carlos took another 4 years to come good.

So even in retrospect that trade was good, especially since we had Hatty at first.

by Shed on Jan 19, 2012 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah.

Carlos wasn’t worth the wait.

by Seb on Jan 19, 2012 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

we'll see how Chili Davis does with those young power bats

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 19, 2012 2:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I totally opposed that trade

i still think Carlos was brought up way too soon. He should have been left in AAA until September. He was also way younger than Allen, who is older and has had several cups of coffee in MLB before he was traded.

by OaklandSi on Jan 19, 2012 12:07 PM PST up reply actions  

It obviously depends on what the return would be (likely not much)

But I’m not a fan of moving Allen just . It is true that he hasn’t shown much at the MLB level, but niether has Kila or Carter. On top of that I like Allen’s athleticism and the fact that he could likely handle a COF position should we lose depth there because of injury, under-performance or whatever. Allen also looks better then Kila defensively to me, and is obviously a much better defender then Chris Carter. I understand giving Barton another chance, but is it smart to depend on a guy who was injured and absolutely horrible at the plate last season? I would rather move Kila or Carter if were looking to reduce the surplus at 1B, giving Barton the starting shot with Allen backing up at 1B/OF or waiting for another shot in AAA.

by JPShark on Jan 19, 2012 9:04 AM PST reply actions  

Trading Allen?

Nah. He showed promise, and while it seems that 1B is Barton’s to lose again, there’s no harm in giving Allen a shot in ST and seeing whether he has any serious power.

by Sean Fortuna on Jan 19, 2012 9:15 AM PST reply actions  

Yeah I just don't see what good could possibly come from trading him

We’re not going to get anything back in return, and he might (more likely than Jai Miller) turn out to be something

John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Jan 19, 2012 9:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Really?

I’d prefer trading Allen over Carter. At least Allen had 367 PAs last season to prove his worth(lessness).

While it’s still possible that both could be successful, I think the difference is that Allen got a chance and fell flat, Carter did not really get a chance. After that 0-32 start he hit very well. Then in 2011 he was injured and it affected his performance significantly. Still has only had a handful of inconsistently doled out ABs at the MLB level.

If I had to trade one, I’d trade Allen while he still has value. But I’d prefer to keep both at least to see how our 1B situation shakes out in the spring with injuries and performance.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 19, 2012 10:07 AM PST up reply actions  

agreed

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 19, 2012 2:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't like this idea.

I don’t think Barton should be handed the job and I doubt the A’s would get anything good back for Allen right now. Plus, those home runs he hit in Yankee Stadium were amazing.

Enter arbitrary sig line here

by theoriginalrods on Jan 19, 2012 10:02 AM PST reply actions  

I absolutely HATE the idea of handing Barton the job ...

… and I DESPISE the idea of doing so by removing his best, highest-ceiling competition. Kila was basically a buy-low retread, and Carter is a guy who can/should only play 1B in a pinch, so what competition does Barton really have — and what true depth does Oakland really have — without Allen?

Of anyone with a legit ceiling, Allen has the most versatility of anyone on our 40-man right now, yet his value is at an all-time low. Seems like a pretty terrible idea to me.

Oakland Athletics * St. Bonaventure Bonnies * Green Bay Packers * Buffalo Sabres * New York Knicks

by RyanFromBonas on Jan 19, 2012 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Keep BA

for the A’s to get back in contention, they need someone to outperform expectations and become a real power hitter. I realize that BA will probably end up as another Wily Mo Pena, but

1) I think it’s possible (though unlikely) that he ends up as a major league slugger and

2) Whatever comes in return for him probably will have a lower ceiling

Do you know the way to San Jose?

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jan 19, 2012 10:32 AM PST reply actions  

shopping everyone

This report is mildly bogus. Billy Beane will always shop any player if he can get a good deal.

“Trade Weeks?” you ask. “No way!” you say.

And if someone offers Beane Pujols and Fielder for Weeks (just to prove a point here).

Then yes, we do trade weeks.

Everyone is available, for a price. I’m sure Beane is just finding out Allen’s price.

Let's play two.

by Stew's Crew on Jan 19, 2012 10:46 AM PST reply actions  

I actually believe Weeks is truly untouchable, the dearth of MI prospects sans Cabrera

(he might not even stick) leads me to think that him and Pennington are very much safe for any deal for the foreseeable future unless MIs are coming back.

by Copenhagen on Jan 19, 2012 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Rebuilding the Rebuild

Why not give Allen some real playing time. I dislike shipping every guy out, who has power potential based upon a couple of months in the majors.

We know we’re going to suck next year, so have the stones to sit out some bad performances and see if you have a diamond in the rough. I doubt you could hurt attendance any more than the ownership (past/present) already have.

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Jan 19, 2012 11:47 AM PST reply actions  

perhaps

Barton = hatterberg
Allen = Pena

we all know what lengths billy will go to make what he wants happen…

Falcon Punch!

by falconsfury on Jan 19, 2012 12:33 PM PST reply actions  

Jonny Fucking Gomes.

Okey dokey.

I fart in your general direction.

by Streams Of Whiskey on Jan 19, 2012 1:57 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

seriously though

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 19, 2012 2:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Trading Allen and signing Gomes would be stupid IMO

Gomes is 31 years old, he makes less sense than Seth Smith.

Give Allen a little more time, he only has 158 PA in the American League.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 19, 2012 2:57 PM PST reply actions  

I'll be bummed if Allen leaves

He’s exactly the kind of guy we should be taking a chance on.

I’m also heeding Stew’s Crew’s wise words above. This may be more of a “make news” story than something actually in the works. When someone like SuSlu weighs in I’ll take it seriously.

The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart

by Hegenberger Road on Jan 19, 2012 3:02 PM PST reply actions  

We should trade him to Fangraphs

and not ask for anything in return. You know, FREE BRANDON ALLEN!!

Difference of opinion among my community is a sign of the bounty of God.

by iglew on Jan 19, 2012 3:05 PM PST reply actions  

I'll Explain The 1B Situation And Why Allen Is The Best Candidate To Be Traded

The A’s currently have 5 1Bs on their roster: Brandon Allen, Daric Barton, Chris Carter, Sean Doolittle, Kila Ka’aihue. The best way to trade is to get rid of what you have a surplus of and gain something that you are in need of. Here is the breakdown of the 1Bs and why Allen was chosen as the surplus to get rid of:

Barton: Has been on the A’s the longest and has established himself. He is 26 years old and only has 1 year left on his contract before he is arb eligible in 2013. If you look at his numbers in 09, 10 you will see that he can be a huge asset to the A’s if he can get back to those numbers. Beane is willing to give him that chance, since he has seen it before and could possibly see it again. If he still plays like crap, it’s no biggie and we don’t offer him arb or resign him at the end of the season. Nobody will trade for him since he only has 1 year left on his contract and he has been injured, so the A’s just have to hold on and see what he can do.

Chris Carter: Is way too valuable to trade. He is only 25 and hasn’t had much of a chance to prove himself in the pros. His AAA numbers can say it all. This guy is a monster 1B who can hit 30+ HRs and bat .270+, he’s never had an OPS lower than .812 in his entire AAA career. Just go look at his minors stats and you’ll see why the A’s want to hold on to him for a while and see how he develops. Worst case he just becomes a DH. He is not a trade candidate for Beane at all.

Doolittle: Is 25 and has proved himself to be a solid 1B. His line for his first season at AAA reads .267/ .364/ .448 with 4 Hrs and an .811 OPS. He isn’t much of a power hitter, but he is talented none the less and could possibly get even better. He has no MLB experience yet and only 1 year in AAA so he isn’t a very good trade candidate. Beane will hold on to him and see what happens.

Kila Ka’aihue and Brandon Allen: I put them together because they are pretty much the same. They are both Arb eligible in 2015 and a FA in 2018. They both have minimal at bats in the MLB and have performed very underwhelming in them with pretty much the same stats. Here is their MLB stats: Allen 324AB .210/ .297/ .383 with 11 HRs and a .680 OPS, Kila 283AB .216/ .309/ .375 with 11Hrs and a .683 OPS. Pretty much the same almost exactly. Strange? Now check out their AAA numbers:
Allen 921AB .286/ .401/ .555 with 59HRs and a .956 OPS, Kila 1201AB .281/ .412/ .497 with 63 HRs and a .910 OPS. They are pretty much the same player, capable of the exact same things.

So what it boils down to with Kila and Allen is who is better trade bait. They both have the same stats and they both have the same contracts, now who is going to be more interesting to other teams? There is only one difference that separates them. Age. Allen is 25 and Kila is 27. Allen also has 41 more MLB at bats than Kila. I know the age and the at bats are such a small difference, but it matters to teams. So that makes Allen the better trade bait who can help Beane get a better player that the A’s actual need.

I hope this helps some people understand some things and why Allen is the most obvious and lucrative choice for the A’s to trade.

by Mike Siegel on Jan 19, 2012 3:52 PM PST reply actions  

Doolittle is back to pitching again.

We need a roster spot. Somebody has got to go. Better to make a trade than lose someone for nothing.

by chrisatsac on Jan 19, 2012 4:48 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

A lot

I think more than we can imagine. They are young players who did very well in the minors and could potential blow up. That’s how other teams see them. Some teams don’t have many of those guys in their farm systems. Even if we get the same in return (young player who does well in minors who could blow up), it will be a position we actually need, not 1B.

by Mike Siegel on Jan 19, 2012 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

If we can get a good return for one of them then I would like a trade.

I’m just skeptical of that. They may just have more value if we hold onto them and see what they can do in spring training, and go from there.

by Seb on Jan 19, 2012 4:57 PM PST up reply actions  

we know exactly what Allen's trade value is

a situational reliever with a career 2.43 ERA and about 1 WAR per year. IF you throw in a young mostly unproven relief pitcher.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 19, 2012 5:28 PM PST up reply actions  

soooooo

his value is far higher to keep and see what he can do in a full season? yep yep yep. so lets get this silly business behind us. Allen for President.

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Jan 19, 2012 7:15 PM PST up reply actions  

why would players who are controlled through 2018 be trade bait?

I think the wiser choice is to see what we have this season and then if Allen or Kila show they can at least be decent at the major league level trade Barton. Barton won’t be around by 2015 anyway. I say you only trade Allen if you’re either sure that a) he’s a bust or b) Kila is the future 1B. No one without a crystal ball can know either of those things.

by DDroney on Jan 21, 2012 6:22 AM PST up reply actions  

I can’t believe that we are talking about trading Allen and signing Gomes who looks to have almost the same numbers.

"The A's leave 2 men on and fail to score." - Anyone broadcasting an A's game.

by Faroo on Jan 19, 2012 6:00 PM PST reply actions  

Perhaps the A's can try and add some prospects that play 3b or SS

I am sure we will go with Pennington and Sizemore. However, trading a OF or 1b for a decent prospect on the left side of the infield would suit me.

I like Allen overall. Would like to see an old-fashioned ST battle for 1B, back-up catcher, Utility IF and the last OF spot.

by Yellowhorse on Jan 20, 2012 10:11 PM PST reply actions  

I realize this means very little in the big scheme of things

but it sure is nice watching Allen swing. He’s aggressive as hell. I know, I know, aggressivness means nothing if you hit a buck eighty, but damn I get tired of watching my team take pitch after pitch … after pitch …. after pitch.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Jan 21, 2012 1:11 PM PST reply actions  

I like how short it was, a la Carlos Delgado, when he first joined the A's

Then it seemed to get longer, in negative correlation to his batting average.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 21, 2012 7:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Me too.

Probably underrated in that he was considered to be very good but he was in fact very great.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 21, 2012 8:41 PM PST up reply actions  

we happened to have close mutual friends

and I actually got to meet him in a non-baseball setting. He’s now retired, and has started a foundation that works with kids. Classy guy in all respects.

by OaklandSi on Jan 21, 2012 8:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Speaking of taking pitch after pitch after pitch

I wonder if Barton will swing the bat when he has runners on base and become aggressive or will we see the strike 3 call as he tries to coax a walk when he should be trying to drive in whatever potential runs are out there.

by Trainman on Jan 22, 2012 11:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Or will he try so hard to be a "run producer"

that he’ll stopping walking as much but will expand the strike zone only to the result of making outs? It’s a fine line indeed.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 22, 2012 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

or hit

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 22, 2012 8:30 PM PST up reply actions  

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