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A's Trade Moscoso and Outman for Seth Smith


From @athletics:

Athletics Oakland Athletics
The #Athletics today acquired outfielder Seth Smith from the Colorado Rockies in exchange for pitchers Guillermo Moscoso and Josh Outman

I love this move.

Additions from Nico's "since deleted redundant" post:

One can view the trade from two angles: In a vacuum, is this a good deal for Oakland? In context of a team rebuilding for 2014-15, is this a good deal for Oakland?

Seth Smith's career stats can be found here. Coors Field disclaimers apply. Note that Smith has extreme L/R platoon splits as well as predictable Coors/Not Coors ones.

Comment 819 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Hate this move

except for getting something for the smoke and mirrors of Moscoso. Now Parker or Peacock or maybe both make the rotation which is not a direction I wanted to see at all.

by Copenhagen on Jan 16, 2012 10:39 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

Well, IMO...

Smoke and mirrors is the right description for Moscoso, and Outman (who is not my favorite player) is just coming off a huge injury, and Seth Smith can hit? Never really got a good chance in Colorado. So for me, HUGE win.

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Jan 16, 2012 10:43 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

It also adds a roadblock of Allen in the OF as you won't platoon both of them

and doubtful you would platoon Reddick at all. So logjam persists at 1B and COF

by Copenhagen on Jan 16, 2012 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Not being one at all

It’s not like Allen’s earned the 1B spot based on anything he did last year, and if Barton is healthy chances are good he can return to something of his 2010 form.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jan 16, 2012 11:01 AM PST up reply actions  

2010 Barton

Probably the first comment I’ve read that makes me smile

by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2012 11:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Fun fact about 2010 Barton

Barton’s 2010 WAR: 5.0
Albert Pujols’ 2011 WAR: 5.1

Though I get the impression he’s something of a Byrnesian knucklehead (injured jumping into a pool’s shallow end headfirst in the ‘10? all star break; Beane or Forst comment last year re:him and ’can’t force players off their iPads and into the training staff’), the fact he was as valuable as Pujols was last year should mean 1B is his to lose for now

by LunaCI on Jan 16, 2012 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

See? THAT is a measured response, disagreeing with a comment. With back-up.

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Jan 16, 2012 12:36 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

This (LunaCL's comment)

Is the best evidence that numbers lie. And no I don’t need to provide back up

by Alvin Dark on Jan 16, 2012 6:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I've known that numbers lied

ever since a “3” tried to pass himself off as an “8” by standing in front of a lamp-post so it would obscure his not completed left side.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 6:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Those numbers are a sore spot with me NICO

Years ago when I was in New Zealand I played the Lotto. You could buy combo tickets and so I picked 8 numbers so any combinations of four or more paid off multiple prizes.

I was sitting in the bar (drunk) when the numbers came out

Got the 1st number
Got the 2nd number
Got the 3rd number
Got the 4th number
Got the 5th number

Needed #8 to win 2.5 million and out comes #3. When drunk I thought it was 8 for a second. I did win 18 prizes. At the time 5 straight paid around 700 so I won that 3 times and had 15 winning combos of 4. $2468.00

I could have used the 2.5 million. It was all tax free.

by Trainman on Jan 16, 2012 7:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Best. Story. Ever.

Mostly because it is SO Trainman!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 7:45 PM PST up reply actions  

And you just couldn't have said that?

Why can’t I say that I love the trade, simply because I can’t stand Josh Outman, and Seth Smith is my new boyfriend without getting a sarcastic response. Tell me why I’m wrong in baseball terms, but there’s no call for that kind of a response.

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Jan 16, 2012 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

You can't stand Outman?

I don’t love you anymore.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 16, 2012 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Can't stand ;-)

Has nothing to do with baseball, though, so it’s a completely worthless analysis ;-)

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Jan 16, 2012 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

He just gets guys out, man

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

"Thinks he's cute" is what I'm hearing.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

i wanna hear him say that.

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Jan 16, 2012 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

He loves Seth Smith!

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Jan 16, 2012 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

And you don't mind the competition?

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

a fair point

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Jan 16, 2012 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

That's a big "if"

but I just think he’s doing the normail A’s regression like Bobby Crosby, Travis Buck etc…

I think chances are good he can’t return to his 2010 form.

Every man for himself...

by MMunoz33 on Jan 17, 2012 10:37 AM PST up reply actions  

A torn muscle is regression?

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 17, 2012 1:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Allen sucks, Baron will be at 1B

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was an idiot.

by the_rozeboom on Jan 16, 2012 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Whoever the hell "Baron" is... Oops.

Will we ever be able to edit comments?!?!?

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was an idiot.

by the_rozeboom on Jan 16, 2012 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

The thing I hate about the AN application....

You can’t edit your own comments - and you can’t remove comments that you realize you shouldn’t have made in the first place.

by richwol1 on Jan 16, 2012 11:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Allen needs to earn a spot on the roster period.

The way he was with us was mostly horrible.

Pitchers had a field day pitching to him for the most part.

by Trainman on Jan 16, 2012 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

SSS but Allen's K-rate following the trade was 34.8%

Which, so far, is exactly what his career rate has been.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jan 16, 2012 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

It should have a 30-sec grace period

[Undo-post]

100% Athletics, 100% Baseball. 2009 Athletics, 40% Baseball.

by fruitattack on Jan 16, 2012 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

It's called "preview" ;-)

Would be nice, though, huh?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

If you make it a habit to preview every comment,

that helps a lot.

Doesn’t catch everything though….

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

rec'd!

Every man for himself...

by MMunoz33 on Jan 16, 2012 10:54 AM PST up reply actions  

my thoughts as well.

What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.

by winchester5 on Jan 16, 2012 11:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Clears a 40-man roster spot

For newly signed Bartolo Colon. I think it means Milone and Peacock are likely to make the rotation, with Parker down at AAA to start the year.

by Jason Hunt on Jan 16, 2012 10:40 AM PST reply actions  

Good point

That makes me a bit happier.

by sc00by on Jan 16, 2012 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree.

We have plenty of meat to throw out there in a loser year.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 11:28 AM PST up reply actions  

+++!

That’s my only concern about the trade is keeping the youngsters off the clock to start the season.

Otherwise, it doesn’t bother me. Smith could be a nice addition to Reddick and one of Taylor, Cowgill, Carter etc….Plus we just picked up Ms. Piggy so it’s not that big of a blow, I suppose.

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Jan 16, 2012 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Whoops - we posted at the same time! I'll tuck my comments into this post and delete mine...

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 10:42 AM PST reply actions  

Does Smith start over Taylor?

I sure as hell hope not

"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse

by kbtoyz on Jan 16, 2012 10:42 AM PST reply actions  

That's because he plays a lot of pepper

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 16, 2012 6:02 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

the bench coach in major league?

BK: This guy is on fire, he is really smokin'.
KenKo: Oh yeah, Bill? What's he smokin'?

by jlanning17 on Jan 17, 2012 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Iron Man's assistant.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 17, 2012 1:18 PM PST up reply actions  

AAA for Taylor most likely

Smith-Crisp-Reddick would be the likely starting OF, with Cowgill spelling either Smith or Reddick vs lefties (most likely Smith, who has strong platoon splits).

Unless they keep a 5th OF, Taylor is the odd man out.

by train80 on Jan 16, 2012 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Give Taylor a shot now

There is no point in keeping him in Sac another year. He needs to have the ability to prove whether or not he can cut it…ugh

"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse

by kbtoyz on Jan 16, 2012 10:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Of course, he's the best hitting OF we have.

Unless Taylor grabs the bull by the horns he will not get a starting job.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 7:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't like this move.....

I want to see what Taylor, Allen, Carter, etc can do.

Hopefully this means we see a secondary move involving signing oswald or another FA pitcher who could be flipped at the trading deadline.

by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2012 10:44 AM PST reply actions  

I agree with this

I was kind of looking forward to it.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Not so much related to the A's side of things,

but if there were one place I wouldn’t want Moscoso to pitch for me it would be Coors FIeld.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 10:46 AM PST reply actions  

aren't this just kind of dumping Smith because they don't have a spot for him?

maybe they were going for the “best of the bunch available” instead of looking for groundball guy?

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

if you're running a team in Denver

you can do better than a couple of flyball pitchers with low K-rates from a pitchers’ park.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

true

it is kind of a head scratcher for both teams. My CO didn’t do their homework?

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

"maybe" CO

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, Moose Costcos "smoke and mirrors" is just gonna turn into "smoked"...

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was an idiot.

by the_rozeboom on Jan 16, 2012 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

"Moscas, moscas...."

“Adios mio…!”

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Jan 16, 2012 12:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Interesting that we're okay with throwing our young pitchers out there and start their service clocks,

but not our less-sure, older outfielders.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on Jan 16, 2012 10:46 AM PST reply actions  

Thing is

Service clocks won’t matter as much if the A’s get the new stadium. They’ll actually be able to afford to keep some of the major talent. If they don’t get the new stadium, we’ll best of luck doing this again in three years.

I’m not sure I love getting an outfielder from Colorado. Last time we did that, didn’t go so well.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 16, 2012 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

I hear this one smiles!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

I remember him smiling once...

I think it was after Swingles made a nice catch.

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was an idiot.

by the_rozeboom on Jan 16, 2012 11:20 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm more concerned that he can't his LH pitchers

and hit only 15 HRs despite playing half his games in a launching pad.

I couldn’t care less if he smiles.

by OaklandSi on Jan 16, 2012 11:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Totally Befuddled

I can’t figure out what Beane is up to. This isn’t Moneyball and it doesn’t feel like rebuilding. What is Billy up to (must be something….I hope).

Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener. Billy Martin

by Steve in Napa on Jan 16, 2012 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

This is pretty simple, I think

Players need to earn their way into the major leagues. Nothing Taylor or Allen or Carter has done has indicated they deserve to start the season at the major league level. This is probably true for Cardenas and Mitchell as well. Any of these guys can work their way into the majors and get there when there’s an injury. Cowgill isn’t even a sure bet to start the season in the majors, though a good spring will probably put him there.

Meanwhile, Outman’s a reclamation job so it’a all a question of giving up Moscoso, who, as people here have noted, could be a smoke-and-mirrors pitcher. I

I’m not a fan of the move, but there are quite a few FA pitchers out there right now who could easily fit into the scotch tape and rubber band rotation that will be the A’s lot for 2012. Does anyone really think Moscoso would be better than someone like Millwood?

by richwol1 on Jan 16, 2012 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

The other thing

is that by bringing in guys like Colon and Smith, you do give yourself some trading power for some more prospects at midseason for desperate playoff contenders too. Especially if some of the young talent proves to be ready now.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 16, 2012 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

But what value will they bring back?

Organizational filler or mediocre bullpen arm at best.

by Rio on Jan 16, 2012 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

That doesn't matter

They’re mainly place-holders, and if some of the minor leaguers get their act together, then they can be moved so that they’re not clogging the roster. This is more of a running in place move, which it could only be when you’re dealing with players like Smith and Moscoso.

by richwol1 on Jan 16, 2012 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

In other words...

guys who are a lot like Moscoso and Outman.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 16, 2012 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

But why adding payroll if we rebuild?

Colon, Smith and the next FA starter.
And now I can see another .500 season and another mid-10s pick. Perfect. Just when you think Beane is on the right track for a rebuild he tells you the opposite.

by Rio on Jan 16, 2012 11:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Payroll addition is most likely to keep the MLBPA at bay

I still would have rather them dump 10 mil into Oswalt then the events of the past two days

by Copenhagen on Jan 16, 2012 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

I see that as a reason, but that would be really bullshit.

Marlins had years of payrolls below what we would have had after Crisp signing.
Sucks when MLB jumps on us after letting other teams earn money and get top picks for many years.

by Rio on Jan 16, 2012 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

It's part of a new CBA

On the one hand, the A’s have to deal with a salary floor. On the other, they get to deal with new limits on draftee bonuses.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 16, 2012 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

its not like Beane is going to give just up,

even though we are in a rebuild mode. I would say that he doesn’t like loosing, even after shipping off our top rotation pitchers for prospects. This is not to say that Seth Smith is the answer to our prayers…

by Chief Bender on Jan 16, 2012 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

What?

Are we flipping Seth Smith for something?

Smith-Coco-Reddick in the OF, Cowgill and Taylor are extras, as is Allen.

McCarthy
Colon
Milone
Braden (?)
Ross (?)
is the rotation?

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 10:48 AM PST reply actions  

peacock, parker.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on Jan 16, 2012 10:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Good God no.

Not till after the ASB, please.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 10:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Likewise

This doesn’t seem to mesh with the whole “maximize team talent for 2015” plan.

Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!

by UrgentMirth on Jan 16, 2012 11:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Forst

If you watch the video of David Forst talking about the trades, he pretty much puts Parker in the rotation out of Spring Training.

by Colorado Fan on Jan 16, 2012 12:30 PM PST up reply actions  

my thoughts.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on Jan 16, 2012 10:49 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm gonna miss those stirrups...

"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse

by kbtoyz on Jan 16, 2012 10:50 AM PST reply actions  

So we got a 29 year old OF

with no chance of upside, who’s numbers are inflated in Colorado creating a log jam where our young guys who actually have upside get blocked.

We get rid of two young pitchers who give us rotation depth and one has some post surgery upside, and we start the service time of our upside young pitchers.

Overall I’d say I’m curious.

by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2012 10:51 AM PST reply actions  

We have 6 outfielders, only one of which is proven.

And 3 starting pitchers. That is the opposite of what it should be like. There will be more moves before spring training starts.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

You're right there will be more moves

Damn it, now I have check this site every couple hours to see what comes next!

by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2012 10:55 AM PST up reply actions  

This is how I feel,

except surely Seth Smith has some upside. Nice numbers vs. RHP in Colorado.

by danmerqury on Jan 16, 2012 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Moscoso no

But Outman is still a lefty who can hit 95 with movement. (This could have changed post surgery) I’d say he actually has something us upside left. No much but some.

by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2012 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

this is how i feel

he was more 92-93 post surgery but he has decent secondary stuff and can be a 3/4 starter if his command rebounds.

by NRC on Jan 16, 2012 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I still liked Outman

Moscoso, I would bet that he falls off the face of the earth. But you never know what happens after a surgery like Outman had. He also has a hugely funky motion so who knows if he could remain healthy.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 16, 2012 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

didn't outman's dad teach him and his brother some extreme over the top delivery?

iirc, it was effective (the outmans were effective using it) and the motion greatly reduced the stress on the shoulder joint, but ballfolk just wouldn’t respect it because it looked weird.

BK: This guy is on fire, he is really smokin'.
KenKo: Oh yeah, Bill? What's he smokin'?

by jlanning17 on Jan 17, 2012 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I once heard someone knowledgeable suggest

that the problem is it’s too hard to hide your pitches because the hand holding the ball isn’t behind the glove nor behind your back.

Too bad. I would have loved to see him try out the crazy delivery in the big leagues.

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 17, 2012 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

that would make sense

here we go

if that doesn’t work, it’s www.outmanmethodology.com and go to link H on the left side for videos. the pitcher’s grip is pretty much presented on a silver platter for the batter to see.

BK: This guy is on fire, he is really smokin'.
KenKo: Oh yeah, Bill? What's he smokin'?

by jlanning17 on Jan 19, 2012 7:02 AM PST up reply actions  

whatever the delivery,

i liked outman. he seemed pretty locked in a couple years ago before he got hurt. i’m curious to see how he looks this year after a full rehab from surgery. and having a successful pitcher with a name like that would be terrific.

BK: This guy is on fire, he is really smokin'.
KenKo: Oh yeah, Bill? What's he smokin'?

by jlanning17 on Jan 19, 2012 7:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, it looked a bit like Mike Marshall's motion

emphasizing forward motion toward the plate over torquing the body, and putting the throwing arm in a ready position early on to reduce stress on the shoulder and elbow.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 18, 2012 7:13 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree with this

Strictly in terms of value, this is a huge win. Moscoso is not actually good at all. Outman is an extreme longshot to be any good. In return, they get a 2-3 win outfielder who has always shown a lot of promise to be more than that. He definitely has some upside left despite his age.

In context, though, I don’t really understand the move. All of a sudden that outfield is crowded.

by laserbeams on Jan 16, 2012 3:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Especially when you consider that not too long ago,

Sweeney was a lock for the starting job in RF….and CF…..and LF.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 3:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, if you look at him as a "strict platoon player,"

a la “John Lowenstein,” he becomes a pretty darn good hitter.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

sounds like another FA starter is coming to Oakland

and I’m pretty sure it isn’t Oswalt. There is no way they would trade Gio and Cahil, then turn around and throw these young arms into the rotation this quickly. its insane

by Chief Bender on Jan 16, 2012 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

You left out

that Colorado had no leverage since they do their best to not play Seth Smith

by Ice Watter In His Veins! on Jan 16, 2012 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

To continue our text conversation...He had 533 plate appearances last year so they did use him.

But yeah since they got Cuddyer now they basically shoved Smith into a 4th OF spot. I wonder if we couldn’t have gotten him for Moscoso straight up, or Moscoso + bullpen help.

Overall I don’t think the trade was great but I am thankful to have one player (besides Weeks) who can actually hit on this team.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

well... at least he could hit

not that he plays for the a’s his BA will drop 30-40 pts

by heartstopper on Jan 17, 2012 10:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Not that I think Moscoso or Outman had long futures here, but on the surface I don't like this move

Especially if one of the ideas of signing Colon was to help save on service time for one or two of the people they just picked up.

Maybe there will be more to the equation by the time the season starts, but did we really need another OF right now who’s mostly a platoon player?

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jan 16, 2012 10:52 AM PST reply actions  

Exactly how I feel.

Not bad maybe even good from a value standpoint, but totally the wrong direction for a rebuild towards 2014/2015. We now need pitchers or we have to pull a Anderson/Cahill move with Peacock/Parker/Gray and have now what 20 outfielders for Sacramento?
What direction will that go?

by Rio on Jan 16, 2012 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

I sense the real purpose of signing Colon...

…was to spend money and keep the union off our back.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz.
~Humphrey Bogart

by UncleLeo on Jan 16, 2012 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Wooo let's keep blocking the young bats

And start the clocks of the young pitchers. Brilliant.

"BA doesn't stand for Batting Average. It’s Brandon Allen, as in the percentage of a hitter’s worth compared to Brandon Allen. Ted Williams, at his best, was only 4/10th of the hitter Brandon Allen is today." - YonYonson

by hero66 on Jan 16, 2012 10:57 AM PST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

this

"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang

by King Richard on Jan 16, 2012 11:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe not that strong

I mean we are just talking about Outman and Moscoso

by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2012 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

The problem isn't so much losing Outman and Moscoso

It’s more a problem of preventing the prospects from getting playing time in the OF. Having just one of either Crisp or Smith makes sense as it allows for Reddick/Cowgill/Allen/Carter to fill the other OF spots while providing some stability in the OF. However, with both Smith and Crisp in the OF that leaves less room for the prospects to get a chance to shine. I would think that if you are rebuilding, you give the kids a chance to play.

by sc00by on Jan 16, 2012 11:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Not many of the outfield prospects have done enough to warrant a job out of spring training.

My quarrel with this move is it may have been a better idea to sign a Damon or Matsui rather than give up pitchers for Smith.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

This is a really good point

And one I’ve been missing and maybe a few others too. Maybe those guys need to be made to earn it. ie hit with a .950 OPS out of spring training or AAA. (High yes but Allen, Carter, and Taylor aren’t pups)

by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 17, 2012 7:08 AM PST up reply actions  

none of the prospects are being blocked,

you have to play your way on to a big league club. It’s a long season and everyone will get an opportunity to play. (we seem to suffer more injuries than most clubs) How much you play depends on how well you play, as always. And if Smith is blocking your way from being a big leaguer, maybe you are not a big leaguer. Competition for jobs is a good thing, may the 3 best outfielders win.

slide! jeremy slide!

by elephantman on Jan 16, 2012 6:26 PM PST up reply actions  

"How much you play depends on how well you play, as always"

Not always. Often it is “How much you are paid defines how much you will play”

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 6:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Probably not, because I don't see Taylor or Cowgill being as good as Smith, let alone better.

However, I didn’t really see them doing that to Ellis either, and it happened. They traded him after demotion, and never looked back with Weeks at 2B. They also did it to Kouz, even though he was getting paid a lot (even worse for him, being sent to AAA), and Sizemore took full advantage of the opportunity.

Typically injuries and/or extended suckitude by starting players tend to pave the way for a young player to start.

I mean, with Carter, they gave him a serious chance to play, he went 0-32 to start. The point is that the people they had in place were injured and/or sucked, opening the window for him. Same with Allen, Barton was injured/sucked (take your pick on that one). But Allen didn’t perform very well so we still have 1B as a big question.

Weeks came in because of an “injury” to Ellis but that injury wasn’t even serious, really he forced the issue and played well enough to keep his spot. I could definitely see that happening again. If Smith was hitting .240 and Taylor was OPSing .800 in limited time, Taylor will eat into his playing time.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 7:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Thats fair, but also there are other reasons to trade Ellis

He was relatively high paid and it was a salary dump opportunity. Unlikely to continue starting and was within months of no longer being a part of the team. Weeks, is a former first round pick who moved the clock up. Smith doesnt fit in any sort of reasonable timeline.

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 7:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Let's worry about playing time when these guys start to perform

A competition for playing time is better than just handing a job to a rookie without any reason other than giving him some time. Allen has failed once; Carter has failed twice; Taylor didn’t look MLB ready in 2011. I can understand the fear that a second-rate player will take time away from a rookie, but realistically, you want the rookie to work for it.

There are injuries throughout the year, and all of these guys will get their chance if they prove they can play in Sacramento.

by richwol1 on Jan 16, 2012 9:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I disagree

But… you can read my other posts on here which basically argue this very same point.

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 11:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow, xbhaskarx flashback

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 16, 2012 6:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Naah,

If it were xbox, there would be no subject line to click on.

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

couldn't they just have

signed Damon and um…. idunno kept their pitching depth

by nationalB on Jan 16, 2012 11:03 AM PST reply actions  

or Matsui.

Smith is under control through 2015 though.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

$$$

maybe?

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Any chance that Beane is getting Smith only to flip him to another team soon?

In a vacuum, this is a good move. A’s got good value for 2 meh pitchers. But this move doesn’t really fit into the rebuilding plan and other teams seemed to be interested in Smith.

by sc00by on Jan 16, 2012 11:04 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

So very few fly balls are going to fall in!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Ahhh, I remember the days when we only had one...

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was an idiot.

by the_rozeboom on Jan 16, 2012 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Sweeney!

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Not sure about that

Smith’s number will be damaged in Oakland. Maybe they’re betting on selling moscoso at his peak and they just don’t trust Outman’s elbow.

by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2012 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

That's why "flipping him soon" would be before spring training.

Perhaps Beane thinks he can get a better deal for Smith than the Rockies would have because the two teams have different needs.

by sc00by on Jan 16, 2012 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

I kind of doubt it, though,

because Smith was DFA. He had little value. If anything, it would mean we were flipping another OFer who has more “value”.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Disagree

Smith is a line drive / gap hitter; he should do quite well hitting in the cavernous coliseum.

Re-sign Josh Willingham now!

by sf drift king on Jan 16, 2012 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

No one does better in Oakland than in Colorado

Even Line drive hitter. Cold wet air and large amounts of foul territory even screw them.

by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 17, 2012 7:11 AM PST up reply actions  

This move is a surprise to me!

I actually liked what we got from Moscoso, and I am a little surprised we seem to be ditching even more pitchers for B grade outfielders. Huh. Maybe the belief is that the Coliseum is so good that anybody can look good here. No clue. But this is a total opposite of what we’ve come to expect from cultivating a thick book full of starting pitchers.

More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Jan 16, 2012 11:09 AM PST reply actions  

I like this...
“…thick…starting pitchers.”

Since we just signed Colon. Maybe he can eat enough innings for three pitchers?

"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 11:14 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Funny... Rec'd!

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was an idiot.

by the_rozeboom on Jan 16, 2012 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Ha ha

“Innings Eater” very clever

by Flamethrower on Jan 16, 2012 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Or he might eat three pitchers

So there’s risk involved.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

He might have just needed two lockers

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 11:42 AM PST up reply actions  

( one for his 'fridge)

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Let's hope

He doesn’t get in trouble with the law.

They say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing all the time!

by muffinpryde on Jan 16, 2012 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

The guy's 39 and threatens to eat everything

Didn’t we just sign this guy to pitch for us?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

bah

is there going to be anybody left we recognize? (who is also healthy that is.)

by MobiusKlein on Jan 16, 2012 11:26 AM PST reply actions  

I'm seriously gonna miss that kid

Humble, came up, played hard, was fun to watch.

Not the best pitcher but the effort and enthusiasm was there, as well as the performance.

As many people have written here, that performance is likely unrepeatable given his xFIP. I guess Beane knows that too. But he still would have been our 3rd or 4th best pitcher.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

He has a chance of outperforming all of our pitchers except maybe McCarthy

he could also crash and burn. But he has that work ethic, obviously enough to learn a new pitch and throw it at the big league level, so I doubt he will fail that dramatically. We gave up a good piece that costs us the league minimum, for a decent OF that can’t hit lefties. Plus we throw in a borderline #5 starter. I don’t really get the value proposition.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 1:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Flood MLB's offices with paperwork!

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

That would be hilarious

“So help me God, I will trade every man on the roster just to piss you off, Bud! I swear! Don’t test me! Decision now or the mediocre pitcher gets it!” (holds cell phone to Fuentes’ head)

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 1:13 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Would you have believed three days ago the A's would sign Colon?

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 1:22 PM PST up reply actions  

more than somebody would trade for fuentes

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Jan 16, 2012 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

This.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

PLEASE TRADE FUENTES!!!!!!!

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jan 16, 2012 9:48 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

heh

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 16, 2012 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

first we sign a guy who is going to run out of gas before the all star break

and now we trade for someone who is an avg hitter at best @ coors field

Haters Gonna Hate

by Wreckonized on Jan 16, 2012 11:32 AM PST reply actions  

Career 113 wRC+

He’s a well above average hitter even adjusting for Coors.

by laserbeams on Jan 16, 2012 3:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Wrong

Do you even look at stats? Smith hit .282 away from Coors last year.

by Dohman on Jan 16, 2012 3:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Irony: Saying "Do you even look at stats?"

and then citing the stat most stat-oriented people find least useful.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

BASEBALL!!!

Thanks, bbg!

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 11:32 AM PST reply actions  

Pfffft, baseball

I used to talk about baseball instead of meta before it was cool

-Hipster ANer

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 1:14 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

gp

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

His platoon issues I really see as a positive

Gives Cowgill or Taylor as 4th OF a chance for regular AB instead of rotting on the bench like Sweeney last year.

by Rio on Jan 16, 2012 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

If he's at all like me, that should only take 3 months

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 8:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I just have the kiddies do it for me.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 8:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Which button do we push to make the copies of our butt again?

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 17, 2012 9:31 AM PST up reply actions  

I think you'd have to ask Heather Locklear

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 17, 2012 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

I was wondering..

is the “.” part of the y.o., or part of his WAR?:)

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

GP

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Bad trade

Not so much that the loss of Moscoso and Outman are huge (although I do like Outman very much) but the addition of Smith is redundant with the acquisitions of Cowgill and Reddick, two players that Beane is said to have specifically targeted when he traded Cahill and Bailey. Smith costs more than either of those two and will cut into their playing time. That means Beane essentially wasted whatever trade capital he used to acquire one of these 3 outfielders; capital that could have been directed to acquire younger prospects that would hopefully be ready to play when the A’s get a new stadium and are “ready” to field a contender.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 16, 2012 11:34 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Except that...

… the same smoke and mirrors that people see here in regard to Moscoso are evident to anyone else in baseball as well. Which means these aren’t really great trade chips. This was a salary dump by Colorado.

by richwol1 on Jan 16, 2012 11:38 AM PST up reply actions  

question though

why not just not offer him arbitration? Would they lose a draft pick? I wouldn’t think Smith was that type of player (B?)

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

now that I think about it

why bother not offering arby when you can get two pitchers for him?

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

What is Smith projected to get in arb?

He made 429k last year which is about half of the total of the pitchers going back. I see this more of they have Spillborgs and others that can fill his void.

by Copenhagen on Jan 16, 2012 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

It was $2.4 million.

"You're all like big, fat failure turtles." - Edge

by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2012 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

oh that happened yesterday it seems, just hasn't been updated on Cot's

I still stand behind my point of them having pieces that fill in for them

by Copenhagen on Jan 16, 2012 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

they obviously didn't like him much

considering what they got for him

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Plus,

Rockies just signed Michael Cuddyer.

Re-sign Josh Willingham now!

by sf drift king on Jan 16, 2012 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Not surprising, since you forgot you had already said that. ;-)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 5:08 PM PST up reply actions  

And how does Colorado's salary dump help Oakland?

Smith is a COF who can’t hit lefties. That has limited value to the 2012 team and almost no value (unless he gets traded) to the 2015 and later teams.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 16, 2012 11:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe the A's see something they think they can fix?

If they do so and he plays well this year, he would definitely be worth more than Moscoso and Outman next offseason.

On the other hand, I don’t see why the A’s would think themselves capable of fixing any person who uses a baseball bat with any regularity.

Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!

by UrgentMirth on Jan 16, 2012 12:07 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

what position player with some MLB experience has gotten better after coming to the A’s (in the Beane era). I’m sure there is somebody but it sure seems like the opposite. (maybe Durazo? Frank Thomas returned to form but that doesn’t count.)

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

How much MLB experience counts as "some"?

Sizemore and Rosales both got better after coming to the A’s.

Best answer to your question is John Mabry. Very good in his partial year with the A’s. Eight years of mediocrity before that. Or to put it another way:

- WAR in his five months with the A’s = 1.7
- Total WAR over his 14-year career = 2.1

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 5:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not sure, how about a player who had not played more than 2 complete MLB seasons?

I also was thinking someone who stuck with the A’s and was productive for at least a couple seasons.

Jack Cust (depsite some nay-sayers) would qualify.
John Jaha had one good season but that was more of a “comeback”.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 6:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Mabry is a good choice

except that it was only 1 good half season. Randy Velarde? He was decent right?

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 6:43 PM PST up reply actions  

He was also decent before coming to Oakland

Matt Stairs? Scutaro?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 6:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Josh Willingham had a career HR year here last year?

Then again, his OBP was 30 points below the career average. Seriously, stadium effects aside, players do seem to under-perform in Oakland to an alarming degree.

Milton Bradley had some short-term success here. And I can’t believe I’m using this guy as an example, but Mark Kotsay was great his first year in Oakland. He dropped off a cliff though.

Yeah, mostly been bad with the FA hitters.

by Ciderbeck on Jan 16, 2012 9:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Olmedo Saenz

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 17, 2012 6:31 AM PST up reply actions  

agreed

unless another move is coming this trade doesn’t make sense

by NRC on Jan 16, 2012 12:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Glad to see I'm not the only one

who hate this trade.

Re-sign Josh Willingham now!

by sf drift king on Jan 16, 2012 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Greetings A's fans. Rox fan here....

One of your tribe was kind enough to pop over to our board to share some capsure summaries of our new pitchers, so I thought I’d return the favor. Here’s my take on Seth Smith:

Not a heralded prospect. Caught everyone’s attention by his pinch hitting performance. Absolute nails as a PH late and close, thus the nickname "Mr. Late Night".

Against righties, he’s smooth as silk. Reminded me (and I’m old) of Lou Piniella. Line drives, used the whole field. This all got him a ticket intot e everyday lineup, where two major flaws were exposed:

* He just can’t hit lefties. We thought he’d improve with more exposure to them, but he regressed.
* He a major defensive liability. No natural instincts at all.

He’d be a terrific lefty DH in a platoon. Or, if he went back to his original strength, a fine PH. As an everyday player? No.

Good guy too, from all accounts, BTW.

by evers44 on Jan 16, 2012 11:38 AM PST reply actions  

yay more bad defense!

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:42 AM PST up reply actions  

To be fair....

before last season, I’d rate his defense as “slightly below average”. This past season, though, he was utterly lost in the field to the point of being a major liability. So there’s always a chance he can return to “serviceable” status at some point.

by evers44 on Jan 16, 2012 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

the Rockies stadium is a bigger outfield than Oakland isn't it?

(question to anyone who knows)

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

thanks

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

It's pretty huge in left and center, but Smitty usually was in RF

It’s not really about covering ground. It’s more about taking absurd routes on balls, letting line drives get past him. That sort of thing.

by evers44 on Jan 16, 2012 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Ooof.

That doesn’t sound too good.

by danmerqury on Jan 16, 2012 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

I actually like him quite a bit.

Probably a lot of that is irrational “he was on my fantasy team”, but hey.

by danmerqury on Jan 16, 2012 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

LOL

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

My best year in fantasy baseball was my first.

I finished a close 2nd. I haven’t played in a number of years now, but I never matched that finish.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

And FOR THE RECORD,

I never had Jake Fox. And Seth Smith was an injury fill-in who happened to OPS .900 while I had him. So there.

by danmerqury on Jan 16, 2012 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

JACOB Q. FOX!

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 5:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Emil Q. Brown!

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 6:01 PM PST up reply actions  

KOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUZ!

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Can I have Sweeney tuu!

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

done!

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, if we're looking for silver linings,

I like him in that it will amuse me to refer to him as “Smeth Sith”.

Also, … um …. nope, that’s all I got.

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Shades of E-Patsy?

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

yikes

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

good guy, aburd routes?

yay we finally replaced eric byrnes

by buddahead9 on Jan 17, 2012 12:47 AM PST up reply actions  

He and Carter can be friends! :D

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Jan 16, 2012 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks

"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse

by kbtoyz on Jan 16, 2012 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Thank for the info. :-)

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz.
~Humphrey Bogart

by UncleLeo on Jan 16, 2012 1:12 PM PST up reply actions  

See, this is what bugs me:

Let’s say that ‘evers44’ analysis of Seth Smith is spot on, then why would Beane not be aware of this? (Smith’s poor defense and his inability of his lefties?) ..unless there’s another move on the horizon..

In our analysis of our own players, we here assume other GMs know the same: that Moscoso is a “smoke-and-mirrors” pitcher, but many do not. We give MLB GMs too much credit in evaluating talent.
When we got Outman from Philly, he had high upside and pitched well for us before his TJS. So to give up 2 decent starters for another 4th OF is befuddling. We could have/ should have gotten more in return, imo.

Re-sign Josh Willingham now!

by sf drift king on Jan 16, 2012 5:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Defensive stats appear to be a little more optimistic about Smith

UZR seems to think he is about average as corner outfielder and in a small sample size he looks to be slightly better when used in left field due to his arm.

by OkayJay81 on Jan 18, 2012 1:27 AM PST up reply actions  

like others, this is a head scratcher for me

I could see it more if Smith were younger.

Obviously things could change further but it seems like the A’s want to throw their young pitchers to the wolves but not their hitters? Did they see enough of Taylor, Allen, Carter at the end of last season to think they won’t stick?

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:39 AM PST reply actions  

I've seen enough of Carter.

Taylor and, moreso, Allen I think have a little bit of potential.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Why?

He’s never gotten regular playing time, he absolutely destroyed the minors…don’t you think he deserves more of a chance than this?

by danmerqury on Jan 16, 2012 11:43 AM PST up reply actions  

I think he sucks.

I think he’s AAAA. I could be wrong, but I don’t see him ever being good.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 11:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Based on?

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Not many AB's, unless you go to Rivercats games.

He’s barely played MLB.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

it’s a projection. There’s always guess work involved in projections of any kind, and I’m making an executive decision to short sell Chris Carter.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Fair enough.

I’d like to see him actually play before making a decision.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

the 1st 33 ab were tough to watch

but those HRs were nice. I will continue to dream until he is off the team.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

I would like to see Carter get a shot to play everyday and see what he

can do.

We are not going anywhere so if he has a good ST then he needs to be told that he is going to play everyday (DH) and see how he does. There is a lot of pop there but it’s pretty hard to make it based on a few AB’s followed by 3 days off etc.

by Trainman on Jan 16, 2012 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

but Carter always took time to adjust to the next level didn't he?

maybe I watched Carter’s Homerun highlights too many times.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:44 AM PST up reply actions  

ooo

good idea!

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

You will enjoy...

It is a BOMB.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jan 16, 2012 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

dudes love the longball too!

:-)

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I got a toothache from watching that.

I also loved the Taco Bell uptate (2 MORE RUNS UNTIL WE GET TACOS)

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 16, 2012 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but it's like the difference between...

A WR taking a 5 yard pass and juking 5 guys on his way to an 80 yd. touchdown and a FB punching it in from 1 yd. out.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

But one is way more fun to watch.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

And we're back to hand jobs.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

"Wheel keeps turning... 'round, and 'round..."

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for the journey back in time.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 12:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Big wheel keep on toynin'

Proud Mary keep on boynin’.

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

wow

true, they both count the same but … wow

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

The first time I read this

I thought it said the WR punched someone at the 1-yard line on the way to the touchdown. Aside from the glaringly awful example of unsportsmanlike conduct, it sounded kind of awesome

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 1:17 PM PST up reply actions  

That would be pretty funny.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Now I'm not going to be happy until I see DeSean Jackson deck someone at the goal line

And if any receiver was going to do it, it’d be him

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I wanna see someone sign Terell Owens just to punch someone.

Then cut him after the game.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 1:43 PM PST up reply actions  

No, then cut the person he punches for being a victim!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 1:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Hopefully that person punches him back.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Can someone just punch Terrell Owens, instead?

"He's listed as day to day, but then again, aren't we all?" — Vin Scully

by YonYonson on Jan 16, 2012 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Just don't punch him in the abs

Might hurt your hand

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure. See above.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

that was entertainment

something I look for in a baseball game :-)

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 1:38 PM PST up reply actions  

nice

thanks Dan.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 1:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Expect another FA pitcher, or two, to be signed ...

… Harden, Oswalt, etc.

I’m sure Beane does not want to rush Peacock, Parker, or Gray.

This also says that Beane is just not that high on Taylor, Mitchel, or even Allen. He wants them to put up better numbers at AAA, or just force their way up.

by jeff-athletic on Jan 16, 2012 11:48 AM PST reply actions  

Taylor has been a bit of a disappointment

Beane could still be high on Allen at 1B, but probably not in the OF

by JamesS on Jan 16, 2012 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

From what I hear, Beane thought Mitchell looked really good

But he probably wont be ready by spring training, so this does nothing to block him.

Taylor, he looks like a ballplayer, but that’s pretty much where it ends. 103 wRC+ at AAA last year. Cowgill outhit Taylor at AAA and it wasn’t even close.

by Maverick10126 on Jan 16, 2012 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

If the trade signals anything to me,

it’s that the A’s just don’t believe in Taylor anymore. You have two OF spots to flank Crisp, whose re-signing means neither Cowgill nor Reddick is a CFer during Taylor’s window of opportunity to prove he’s for real. So you already had Cowgill, Reddick, and Taylor for 2 spots (plus a 4th OFer, so potentially still room for all 3) and now you add Smith…

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think its a case of not believing in Taylor

It’s that Taylor (and Cowgill and Mitchell and Allen) has done nothing to warrant gifting him a spot on the 25-man roster. 2 young players will earn a spot on the roster as OFs this spring. Taylor could be one of them.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 1:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Interesting thought that while we're focused on Parker and Peacock's service time,

adding Smith may have the benefit of saving on Reddick and Cowgill’s service time. Assuming it’s service time worth worrying about, which I’m not so sure. (I tend to care more about potential #2 starters than I do about tweener OFers.)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 1:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I would guess one of Reddick/Cowgill (Reddick)

and one of Parker/Peacock (Peacock) makes it.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I think he will and should

I think Peacock will and shouldn’t.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I see both Reddick and Cowgill making it unless a Conor Jackson

type is signed then I can see Cowgill trying to reproduce hie ridiculous numbers in Sac.

by Copenhagen on Jan 16, 2012 1:30 PM PST up reply actions  

why would you bring up that name

why?

John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Jan 16, 2012 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

You mean ot cool

You have to leave out one ‘n’ whe ever speaking about Conor.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 2:37 PM PST up reply actions  

If you're not opposed to that, my question then is

What are you opposed to?

John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Jan 16, 2012 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Playing him?

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

but seriously if he is the 25th that means

a young player isn’t languishing on the bench and it at least (hopefully) getting ABs in Sac. He can back up both corners infield and outfield. This is moot if Donaldson makes the roster, then I’d rather not having CoJax around for his sake as that would probably be the majority of his playing time.

by Copenhagen on Jan 16, 2012 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I am a Seth Smith fan so I like this deal

I think he will hit outside of Coors and while I like Moscoso a bit, losing Outman is perfectly fine by me.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jan 16, 2012 11:50 AM PST reply actions  

His swing is a good one for not being harmed by OAK, right?

Line drive, all fields? Shouldn’t get suppressed much by OAK “park effects”.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

OK

now I’m craving a Spring training gameday thread … even if the team won’t be any good.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 11:55 AM PST reply actions  

Yes more OF please
joestiglich
#Athletics still looking for RH-hitting OF in free agency for depth, Beane says. … Obvious Michael Taylor must play way into picture.

Hello Conor Jackson

by Copenhagen on Jan 16, 2012 11:56 AM PST reply actions  

the world gone wrong.

what the hell is going on here? does anybody have answers?!

"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang

by King Richard on Jan 16, 2012 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

to play where!

from 1 guy playing every position to 5-6 (can’t keep count anymore!)

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Service time I hardly new thee
joestiglich Joe Stiglich
No comment from Beane on Colon, but nothing suggests he won’t sign. Regarding rotation, Beane likes chances of new, young arms to help now.

by Copenhagen on Jan 16, 2012 12:00 PM PST reply actions  

On the one hand, =(

On the other hand, service time matters 5 years from now, which is a long time. And I’ll still be watching this team on a nightly basis, and Jarrod Parker will be more fun to watch than Guillermo Moscoso or Graham Godfrey.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 12:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Ahh I had to log in to comment about this trade. Seth has been one of my fav players since I saw him play in A ball in like… 2005. I am excited! I hope he gets a chance and kicks some ass!

by drmmerchk on Jan 16, 2012 12:02 PM PST reply actions  

I hope they just slot him in and let him play

Last year was the first time Colorado let him hit lefties so he struggled some, but I think he just needs some time against them consistently.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jan 16, 2012 12:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Its an alright trade. Trading from a position of strength for a position of weakness

Then again, we also traded 2 puffs of smoke for a mirror.

Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.

by Zonis on Jan 16, 2012 12:11 PM PST reply actions  

Yeah, ultimately we traded crap for crap.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 12:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I hate planning rosterbation

I prefer to rosterbate spontaneously when the mood strikes me

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 1:19 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

The Moose would have had so much more value if he had another good year this year

i am beginning to think billy only wants below average outfielders

moose>colon

anyone from AAA>seth smith

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 16, 2012 12:20 PM PST reply actions  

moose<colon

anyone from AAA<seth smith

by danmerqury on Jan 16, 2012 12:21 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Stop your war on hyperbole, dan.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 12:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes.

I think so, anyway. I’d take Outman over Mazzaro.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 12:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Huh. I forgot about Marks.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 12:26 PM PST up reply actions  

It's ok, I didn't mean that I was upset about Marks.

I seriously forgot about him. That’s probably an indicator of how little he mattered.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Absolutely

But DDJ only had 1 year ’til FA while smith is 3 years away.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 16, 2012 12:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Well that was quick...

just gave up a stud reliever under control for many years for allen

by HarbirD on Jan 16, 2012 12:39 PM PST up reply actions  

stud reliever, I think not

Stud against righties only I can see, but he was far from a complete pitcher. Anything we get back value wise is huge. While I don’t think Allen or Noberto will amount to much it is about an equal trade

by Copenhagen on Jan 16, 2012 12:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Huh wasn't aware of that split..

Well i still think he had some better value and IMO Allen better be a starter to make it a good trade

by HarbirD on Jan 16, 2012 12:56 PM PST up reply actions  

The only thing that seems obvious about this team

Is no one has any idea who the hell Beane might trade or trade for next. Probably not even him

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 1:20 PM PST up reply actions  

The thought that popped into my mind:

If someone had come onto AN and suggested this trade, how many people would have replied that it was a realistic scenario?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I think if someone would have suggested the trade

Our main question would have been: why?

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

exactly

Beane’s making trades just to make them.

by DDroney on Jan 17, 2012 8:08 AM PST up reply actions  

why?

I’m just reaching – but mosco and outman are fungible items, easily replaced. Their potential has been evaluated and realized. They now have a crop of outfielders, each with flaws but also untapped potential. If that potential can be harnessed in 1,2, or 3 of them, you have a stellar outfield in 2015 and the cornerstone of a dynasty!!!!!

OK – I said “IF”.

slide! jeremy slide!

by elephantman on Jan 17, 2012 9:19 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm split

Outman and Moscoso had high xFIPs last year, but from what I’ve read (I’m a Red Sox fan), Outman could have been very good.

Moscoso may have been traded at his peak value though, and I think the A’s might have done a very good job exploiting an inefficiency for low-ceiling back of the rotation starters, which can be kind of fungible in the same way closers are.

by dennet on Jan 16, 2012 12:27 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Outman has never been very good really

He had an okay season before his TJS, but nothing a guy like Graham Godfrey can’t do.

"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer

by cuppingmaster on Jan 16, 2012 6:56 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Outman/Moscoso vs Ross/Milone/Godfrey

While it does lessen sp depth, all these guys project as back rotation types. I wouldnt be shocked if A’s sign another short term veteran sp.

by J.J. Miller on Jan 16, 2012 12:28 PM PST reply actions  

OK Billy this is absolutely ridiculous...

It’s time to fire Billy unfortunately. His desire to rebuild and contend at the same time is getting absolutely ridiculous. We can’t compete with angels or rangers this year no matter what we do (unless we get Fielder or some other impossible thing). Why not just let the young guys play and go for a good draft pick at the same time? However, at the same time, delay the time of the young arms and let them sharpen up in the minors before their trials. Billy made a good trade with gio, but the other deals are decent at best. His competitive nature is just not what this team needs. FIRE BILLY!!

by HarbirD on Jan 16, 2012 12:39 PM PST reply actions  

I feel like I'm watching "Let's Make A Deal"

And Billy keeps trading the $500 bucks for what’s behind Door #3. And he keeps getting a donkey.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 12:42 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Haha good analogy...

(Five hundred dollar= Carlos Gonzalez) His moves are just putting this team in a position of perpetual mediocrity… Either rebuild or contend, anything in between is destined to fail

by HarbirD on Jan 16, 2012 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

HAHA

This is perfect.

"He's listed as day to day, but then again, aren't we all?" — Vin Scully

by YonYonson on Jan 16, 2012 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Were Moscoso and Outman ever going to be centerpieces going forward?

I think the A’s were lucky they got as much from Moscoso as they did in 2011, and he was traded at the best possible time, so that’s a non-factor.

For Outman, it depends on what you think he’d develop into. He could have figured prominently in the future as a stable back of the rotation guy, but so could the next half-dozen low ceiling back of the rotation guys the A’s are likely to pull out of their hats. And there might not always be a market inefficiency for fungible back of the rotation guys the A’s seem capable of producing.

So, I don’t know. Outman very well could have built up more value but he is not CarGo.

by dennet on Jan 16, 2012 1:14 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

No, but Seth Smith is not the answer to anything.

He’s a scarp heap outfielder with no upside.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 1:16 PM PST up reply actions  

he's .282/.358/.456

So he’s this year’s Josh Willingham. I don’t mind that he has no upside. He still has what he has.

I also think there’s going to be plenty of opportunity for the other OF options to play just the same. You only ever end up having 1/2 of the talent you think you have.

by dennet on Jan 16, 2012 1:25 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I think he'd be a fine 4th OF for a team that's a contender, or close to it.

On this team, I don’t see him serving any useful purpose.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd say that those 500 PA's would be better served evaluating players that could potentially be part of this team's future.

Smith is not a long-term answer, so what’s the point?

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 6:08 PM PST up reply actions  

not leaving the lineup completely out to dry

This has been another edition of easy answers to easy questions

by dennet on Jan 16, 2012 6:28 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

So is this a rebuild or not?

You don’t usually build teams around mediocre 29 year olds.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 8:44 PM PST up reply actions  

You haven't hung around a lot of CalTrans teams apparently

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 8:51 PM PST up reply actions  

heehee

I can’t figure out how they get more vehicles to a site, than workers.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 8:52 PM PST up reply actions  

How do you know he is not a long-term answer?

He is and will be relatively affordable and would fit well with any team. If he is unaffordable that means he has developed into an excellent player and we can get a good return for him. He is under control for 3 seasons.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 7:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I know he's not a long term answer because he's 29 and he's a 2 WAR player.

He might be better than what they already have, but he’s still not good.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 8:46 PM PST up reply actions  

When our time to contend is up

Smith will be 32-33 years old, maybe not even a 2 WAR player and a FA. And we have shown a talent to pull 2 WAR and bench players out of a hat.
So what answer gives Smith for our 2015 San Jose A’s?

by Rio on Jan 17, 2012 4:31 AM PST up reply actions  

an .814 OPS away from Coors...that is good.

He immediately becomes our best-hitting OF. Sad but true.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 2:12 PM PST up reply actions  

so sign Damon or Vlad

and we have this year’s verison of Matsui, Dejesus, Willingham (Damon/Reddick/Smith).

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

A's were trying to compete in 2011

in 2012 I think it’s about having at least one player who can hit so the lineup’s not completely exposed. Even a team that’s not competing can want one hitter, especially at the price they got him.

by dennet on Jan 16, 2012 2:09 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

he's slightly better than scrap heap

He’s a useful player at least. He’s better than say, Fukudome or some of the other names that have been tossed around. He’s likely better than Sweeney although his fielding stats are all over the map, hard to really gauge.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 1:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe better than scrap heap

but definitely not scarp heap

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Such a jerk

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess he's more of a Uriah Heep.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

The band or the Dickens character?

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 5:46 PM PST up reply actions  

The band.

I don’t know enough about him to compare him to the Dickens character.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Smarmy twitchy pale redhead always kissing up

to the boss, but really trying to undermine him and take over. Dickens is not subtle.

Possibly the least pleasant character in all of Dickens. No idea what possessed a band to name themselves after him. I’m not saying everyone has to invent a machine that revolutionizes agriculture, but at least be someone who isn’t icky.

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 6:29 PM PST up reply actions  

but with the monte hall dilemma

the odds are always TAKE THE DEAL. maybe that is the approach billy is taking.

by heartstopper on Jan 17, 2012 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

...
Why not just let the young guys play and go for a good draft pick at the same time?

Your argument is to suck on purpose. Tanking is not okay, ever. And the other part of that plan is to hand jobs over to unproven players who very well may hit .150 all year. It’s nice, in theory, to get the top pick and develop guys at the big league level, but it practice that’s not okay for one of the 30 entities in the world whose job it is to win major league baseball games. There’s really no mortgaging of the future in this move.

His competitive nature is just not what this team needs.

That is a very very wrong statement. Again, we’re not mortgaging the future here.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL

I just unwittingly wrote “hand jobs”

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 12:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Frankly, most of our new traffic these days

comes from people who were googling “get head” and got linked to the trade with Boston.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 12:58 PM PST up reply actions  

The ends justify the means.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 1:02 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Now the A's just need to acquire

Brad Hennessey, Jung Bong and Charlie Furbush, and they’ve got one hell of a Friday night.

"He's listed as day to day, but then again, aren't we all?" — Vin Scully

by YonYonson on Jan 16, 2012 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

recker and fister too

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Jan 16, 2012 1:30 PM PST up reply actions  

BARELY KNEW HER

BARELY KNEW HER, TOO!

"He's listed as day to day, but then again, aren't we all?" — Vin Scully

by YonYonson on Jan 16, 2012 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

And Soler.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 1:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Can't wait for the battery of

Colon – Recker

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

{STILL FUNNY}

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

You should do that anyway.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

(holds out cup to catch beer as it's poured)

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 16, 2012 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Bots shouldn't drink.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

You told me he was a-foot.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 4:40 PM PST up reply actions  

He's a bot-foot.

It’s a new unit of measure.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

It will be the new sabre metrics in 2015

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 4:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Be careful with me!

I can only catch so much beer.

"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer

by cuppingmaster on Jan 16, 2012 6:58 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Heh

Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo

by darooster on Jan 17, 2012 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Ok I guess you're right...

Tanking isn’t right but then again that’s how Tampa Bay got good and that’s how Nationals are gonna be good soon.

I believe this is mortgaging the future in a small way as we’re rushing up arms and giving up years of control. Also while this trade isn’t a huge mortgage see: Holliday trade.

by HarbirD on Jan 16, 2012 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I only like this trade if...

Smith is flipped for better parts before he starts to suck in Oakland Colliseum

by HarbirD on Jan 16, 2012 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Even recently.

Beckham over Posey/Hosmer in 2008. Jemile would have even been a better pick than Beckham.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 1:19 PM PST up reply actions  

My analysis:

I’m not so much pleased or mad about the trade, more confused. A couple mediocre starting pitchers well suited to pitching in Oakland and terribly suited to pitching in Colorado in exchange for a “good platoon DH” or “ok OFer,” who’s 29, to a team that’s rebuilding.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 12:45 PM PST reply actions  

This
I’m not so much pleased or mad about the trade, more confused.

Exactly that

by Rio on Jan 16, 2012 12:49 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

delayed reaction

I was pretty surprised at first by this trade, because I thought that the A’s were just starting to achieve the right amount of pitching depth with the Colon signing, and I thought the outfield depth has been fine since getting Reddick and resigning Coco.

But now what I think is that the A’s front office might believe that Moscoso represents this organization’s definition of a replacement level pitcher. Like Guillermo is the guy that Billy Beane confidently believes he can pull off the scrap heap again and again and again. If that’s the case, then trading guys like Moscoso and Outman makes sense, regardless of my feelings about balancing the roster.

by colin on Jan 16, 2012 12:48 PM PST reply actions  

very plausible

I could see Beane thinking that way. I can also see Brad Pitt making this trade while Jonah hill looks shocked and Frantically clicks away at his keyboard.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jan 16, 2012 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

exactly

I think Beane thinks he’s found an inefficiency- fungible back of the rotation guys with low ceilings. Kind of like having fungible closers.

by dennet on Jan 16, 2012 2:12 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Paul Thomas pretty much called this trade in a thread a while back

After I saw his comment I had to look up who Seth Smith is.

I think it was obvious that we needed another OF. Reddick and Crisp weren’t going to fill 5 OF positions. Now we have Taylor, Cowgill, and Smith competing for a starting job. We also still have 2 OF bench spots. Smith likely will platoon.

But to echo colin’s comment above, where are they going to get pitchers? 2 pitchers that I was basically inserting into the starting rotation are gone, and they are going to need more pitchers. Realistically they need at minimum 8 SPs because Braden, Ross and McCarthy are very high injury risks.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 12:53 PM PST reply actions  

there is still time to pick up some scrap heap pitchers

(but no spots on the 40-man, unfortunately)

I think there are lots of guys who can replicate Moscoso’s results while pitching in the Coliseum.

by colin on Jan 16, 2012 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Wasn't there interest in Seth before last season?

I seem to remember quite a few people wanting to trade for him.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 12:58 PM PST reply actions  

We also can't always just be GIVING Smiths to the Rockies.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

haha, why not?

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Jan 16, 2012 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Because all they want are Gonzalez's.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

No way.

We need the pitching depth

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 1:45 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Plus, he fits the "thick starting pitcher" role

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Here on AN, he's been a favorite of PT's.

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 5:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't really get the desire to add Smith

Doesn’t seem like he’s all that interesting as a player on field or off. And we gave up two of our potential starters for the season up for him. I mean I got the other moves, this one just makes me wonder WTF is going on in the FO.

How much are RiverCats seasons? Because even with gas costs they might be the better value this year.

by athletics68 on Jan 16, 2012 12:59 PM PST reply actions  

Yup I also understand other trades

However this trade still might make sense if Smith is flipped to captialize on the market’s demand for him

by HarbirD on Jan 16, 2012 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Also I think it's time to sign cody ross as well....

Platoon partner for Smith haha.. though seriously that would be a stud platoon

by HarbirD on Jan 16, 2012 1:03 PM PST reply actions  

Haha

I expected that comment would piss people off but hey if Billy doesn’t want to rebuild, why not just see how good of a team can made from some scrap heap material

by HarbirD on Jan 16, 2012 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

JUNKYARD WARS!

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Exactly...

though the other teams involved in the war wouldn’t exactly be playing with junk but instead with gold (see Pujols, Albert and Wilson, CJ)

by HarbirD on Jan 16, 2012 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Also, I apparently watch too much TV.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 1:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Not sure I wouldn't boo Ross out of habit

Nor that I’d try to change that habit anyway. He ruined my life in 2010…

by athletics68 on Jan 16, 2012 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I totally get this trade, and there's nothing to see here

At first, like many I was confused about getting a 30 year old OF with wicked bad platoon splits and poor defense for two potential starters. How does this fit with rebuilding? Let the OF prospects have a shot, hold off on the service clocks for SP prospects, yeah yeah I get all that.

We all need to remember two things:

1. Seth Smith is not blocking anyone. If Taylor/Carter/Allen/Mitchell/Green/Choice/whoever can’t outplay Seth Smith then they don’t deserve playing time. Simple as that.

2. Moose Costco and Outman do NOT under any circumstances constitute “rotation depth” If Parker/Peacock/Gray/whoever are going to make the team out of ST, Moose and Outman ain’t gonna be the one’s standing in their way. They will outperform guys like that and earn roster spots, or the team will hold them back for service clock reasons. Moose and Outman have nothing to do with it.

This trade is not part of some grand plan to flip Smith or someone else for some secret holy grail. It is simple: we traded two pieces of crap for one piece of crap. Nothing to see here.

The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart

by Hegenberger Road on Jan 16, 2012 1:07 PM PST reply actions  

One problem with this,

Seth costs $2.4M. He will play.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 1:11 PM PST up reply actions  

$2.4 mln isn't expensive. even for us.

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Jan 16, 2012 1:12 PM PST up reply actions  

No, but they will probably play him, or trade him.

I don’t see them sending him Sac.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 1:13 PM PST up reply actions  

That's because he stunk, not that someone outplayed him.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

As I said below, I don't see them DFA'ing him.

Platooning/benching him, yes.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

also

he could sit on the bench and hold a bag of sunflower seeds until the 9th when he pinch hits the game winning homer. That’d be my plan.

The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart

by Hegenberger Road on Jan 16, 2012 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

This is where I was going.

I inferred from your 1st comment, that if he were outplayed, he would be gone/DFA’d. I don’t see that happening. Backup? Yes.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 1:30 PM PST up reply actions  

maybe

It’s not like there’s a multi-year commitment or anything. If he’s hitting he’ll get a spot, if not I can see the A’s cutting bait.

My point is this is not a move that impacts the rebuild or the team’s overall strategy. All three guys are small potatoes.

The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart

by Hegenberger Road on Jan 16, 2012 1:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I disagree strongly

Moscoso isn’t good. He isn’t the future. But we can and could parade him out every five days and not care if he got lit up and destroyed. He could still pitch there. We care if Peacock gets lit up and destroyed and becomes afraid of throwing strikes etc. We care about that for Parker too. Moscoso we didn’t. Outman we didn’t.

Yes guys can earn their spots but the A’s aren’t sitting $7M Coco or $2 1/2M Smith. PA’s quickly evaporate. This move is completely contrary to waht should be the strategy.

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you're missing the point

Pitchers where we “don’t care if they get lit up or destroyed” are not exactly a rare commodity. Its not like we can’t throw slop out there every 5th day now that Moose and Outman are gone. They’re completely replaceable. I hear Sidney Ponson’s available. I’m sure he’d be funny.

And if the A’s DO decide to put Peacock/Parker/Other in the rotation to start the year the reason ain’t gonna be that we traded Moose and Outman. You may disagree with that choice, and I think you would be right, but the two pitchers we traded are not the deciding factor in that equation.

The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart

by Hegenberger Road on Jan 16, 2012 5:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think I am.

Because on our 40-man roster "Pitchers where we ‘don’t care if they get lit up or destroyed’ " (starting ones at least) ARE a rare-commodity…

They are completely replaceable if you think you can float tons of guys through waivers who you can’t. Or get rid of players we possibly need….

Moscoso was assured a role on this team barring injury. So one of the other starters has just had a space freed up for them. Outman yes it is questionable. He could be longman in pen, 5th starter, etc. But thats another opening now, especially true if our brittle pitchers like McCarthy or Colon falter.

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 6:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Ok, you do get the point

We just disagree. I think if we want someone to throw slop it won’t be that hard to make it happen roster move wise. You think it will.

One man’s slop (or Moscoso) is another man’s treasure (apparently).

The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart

by Hegenberger Road on Jan 17, 2012 4:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Whoa!

Haha. I do think we understand each other. But I am not saying Moscoso is a treasure. He is just there and already there and doesn’t require bumping others off the 40-man to do so. But we do disagree and understand the parameters of one anothers disagreement so now we have nothing left to talk about :(

by dwishinsky on Jan 17, 2012 10:14 AM PST up reply actions  

thanks for your responses

Cheers,

HR

The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart

by Hegenberger Road on Jan 17, 2012 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Okay, suppose Coco & Smith weren't there...

And the outfield was Cowgill, Taylor and Mitchell, with Allen at 1st base and Carter at DH, and all were hitting under .200 two weeks into the season.

Then what?

by richwol1 on Jan 16, 2012 6:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Oops. sorry, Cowgill, Taylor and Reddick

…and all except Reddick were hitting under .200.

by richwol1 on Jan 16, 2012 6:18 PM PST up reply actions  

It's bizarre to me that so many people think

that just because we’re rebuilding there’s some sort of mandate that it’s acceptable to win 50 games. You should still be aiming to be better than .500 at least. No Major League team in 2012 should be prepared to give Michael Taylor and Allen and Mitchell 500 PAs. It’s still a damn MLB team.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 6:25 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Why?

What is the benefit of being an 82-80 team?

It doesn’t draw fans, just look at Toronto, which has been “ok” just above .500 for years. How do you see what you have if you clog the MLB roster with guys expecting to play 140 games a year. (Coco didn’t sign for $7M to be beaten out by Jermaine Mitchell and lets not kid ourselves he was).

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 6:44 PM PST up reply actions  

The benefit is winning 82 games.

It’s embarrassing and unacceptable to be bad. Now I understand that it’s better to lose 100 in order to later win 100 than to win 80 in perpetuity, but if you can upgrade at no long term cost then you have an ethical obligation to those of us who pay time and money to this team to make it as good as possible.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 6:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Because he is 27 and has played exactly 59 games above AA

Rotting on the vine? Its sort of now or never. He is on the 40-man roster taking up space. Prove it or lose it.

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 6:58 PM PST up reply actions  

And he destroyed AAA like Weeks.

Weeks had also not much more games above AA and turned out well enough.

by Rio on Jan 17, 2012 4:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Weeks is a lot younger than Mitchell

The number of 27-year-old position players who’ve barely played above AA and have gone on to productive major-league careers has got to be really, really low.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 17, 2012 6:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Cruz made it to AAA when he was 24

At the same age, Mitchell was spending a full year at Stockton.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 17, 2012 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Looking at Gladden's b-r.com page

First, Gladden had made it to AAA when he was 24 and succeeded there. Like with Cruz, at the age when Gladden was going .308/.364/.467 with 41 SBs in AAA, Mitchell was still in A ball.

Second, that .351 was in half a season, at age 26, and was by far the best he ever played in the majors.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 18, 2012 7:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Isn't it equally unacceptable to be just OK forever?

There are no ethical obligations at all. it is a business that can be run however the owner pleases. If you don’t like how the team does things find another team. Just as we wouldn’t say a bank has an ethical responsibility to be open outside of 9-5. Might be more convenient but then go to the bank that is open 8-8 or whatever. I get where you come from on this. But, I think that’s sort of out there to expect that teams have an ethical responsibility of any sort to anyone.

But let’s look at it like grades… an 82 win team is what a C? You pass, but it isn’t stellar. If you came home with straight C’s is that great? No. (Now, I get that one can say well F’s which is what this team is won’t be good but I’m looking at it one way that is that 82 wins isn’t unembarassing or acceptable. It is perhaps not humilating, but it should be unacceptable for the reasons you outline in your ethics argument)

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 6:57 PM PST up reply actions  

People pay money to watch this team.

People pay money to watch this team be good, not bad. The A’s are rooted in the Bay Area’s culture, and for many people it is a source of enjoyment to watch a game at the Coliseum. That’s what baseball is about, so yes I do think it would be unethical to intentionally make a professional sports team bad.

And yes it is unacceptable to be just OK forever. I don’t see how acquiring Seth Smith hurdles us into an eternity in purgatory, though. This move really only serves as an upgrade over what we had before, with the only real cost being PA’s for Michael Taylor or Collin Cowgill, when I don’t think those PA’s should be guaranteed to them at all.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 7:03 PM PST up reply actions  

It doesn't, but what it does do is push back the queue

Of players who need extended looks. Taylor, for one, needs a half-year of MLB seasoning, IMO. Carter absolutely needs to be told the DH job is his and to concentrate on hitting. Barton and Allen need spots somewhere.

I’m a fan of this trade on a surface level for consolidating talent into a guy who is a useful player. I just don’t know why we traded expendable pitchers for an OFer. It’s like Beane zigged when he should have zagged.

"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer

by cuppingmaster on Jan 16, 2012 7:12 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I think a lot of you on here are much more enamored with some of the A's

hitters than either I or the A’s organization is. Just because Michael Taylor is 26 and a former top prospect doesn’t mean he should be a major leaguer, same goes for Carter. I don’t think any of Taylor, Carter, or Allen are any good and it sure looks like the A’s brass agrees with me. The “eh whatever throw ‘em out there and see what we’ve got” isn’t a good strategy when you’re able to make a very informed judgement that “what we’ve got” stinks.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 7:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Unless you release these worthless players

they end up in Sac giving Bush a huge headache trying to figure out how to dole out playing time whist cutting into ABs down there that should be going to the Green’s, Choices (when he gets there) etc.

Carter has no business in AAA at all and deserves at least 300 PA (preferably more then 5 a week) in the bigs to write him off. Allen, well I’m not a fan at all, but he too prob should get another 150 or so. This should be Taylor’s make or break year, it does his development of hitting major league pitching zero good hanging out in Sac with another crowded OF fighting for time.

by Copenhagen on Jan 16, 2012 7:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t think any of Taylor, Carter, or Allen are any good and it sure looks like the A’s brass agrees with me.

I find it interesting that you think everyone is so easily written off: 35 PAs for Taylor. 124 for Carter. 367 for Allen… thats not even a full year between all of them

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 7:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I think of all 3, Carter is the one that needs consistent ABs

After his horrid 0-32 start he really picked it up at the MLB level. I would actually put him in at DH for spring training and tell him it’s his job to lose. Allen had a chance to win the 1B job and didn’t, it’s probably best to have him and Barton competing for it.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 7:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I think Carter should be the every day DH for at least 2 months, probably 3,

with no chance of losing the gig. Then step back and take a look.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 7:46 PM PST up reply actions  

And if he's going to make it,

it will probably be because he knows he has the job, and can relax and just hit.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 7:49 PM PST up reply actions  

the thumb injury really killed Carter last year.

I want to see him at 100%. I believe he can dominate. He has dominated at every level.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 7:51 PM PST up reply actions  

This is a key point

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jan 17, 2012 6:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I pay money to watch the team.

Do you really think that me someone who devotes my time to my own blog, podcast and being a frontpage writer on this team don’t understand that baseball is a source of enjoyment? Do you think I don’t understand what baseball is about?

That aside… it is a business. People buy it. It isn’t a community held team, or non-profit organization. Its goal is making money, so it really isn’t that much different than cheering for Chevrolet or Ford on some level. But you and I both know it is more than that, but in some ways also it isnt.

Acquiring Smith takes playing time away from seeing what we actually have. What more does Taylor or Carter gain from another year at AAA? Nothing. What more does Cowgill gain from raking the PCL nothing? And what does Oakland gain from having Seth Smith? 1) I don’t think there’ll be a line of fans itchingt o finally see Smith. 2) I don’t think that he brings us a championship or even gets us to your 82 win promised land, 3) He does very effectively block a limited amount of PA’s to all the guys on this team. Shoot Coco Crisp did that all his own though you can argue that he does get some fans in. What is the point of having prospects play in Sacramento if we never fnd otu what they can actually do at the MLB level? Right now we do have that opportunity. It isn’t TRYING to lose. It is trying to effectively figure out what your assets are by actually testing them out.

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 7:21 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

You had me at

Shoot Coco Crisp

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

ka-CHING!

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I think my position can be summed up thusly;

All of you disagreeing with me are doing so on the basis that we need to “see what we have” while I think we already know what we have. These guys have long track records in the minors and each of them have binders and binders of scouting reports in some office at the Coliseum. I don’t think they need to be “tested out” because I think they’ve already been tested over the past so many years.

So no, I don’t think it’s wrong for the A’s to move on from guys like Taylor and Carter, because I think they’ve already had their chances. The jury is in.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 7:26 PM PST up reply actions  

MLB pitching and AAA pitching is not the same

35 PAs for Taylor. 124 for Carter. 367 for Allen at the MLB level tells you nothing.

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

yes, MLB pitching is better.

By that rationale, you should just throw and 26 year old career minor leaguer into a lineup. It seems the A’s execs have made their decision on these guys, and that’s what they’re paid to do. They get paid to make decisions on guys before handing them a ton of ABs.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

But one can question their decisionmaking

I mean certainly if we feel that they are a civic entity with strict ethical standards to meet for their community that community members can wonder if their decision making seems sound.

In this case it doesn’t.

But to your point, that you just throw a 26 year old career MiLB guy out there. That depends on your team. If you are a winning team do you do it? Absolutely not. This team is not winning any championships next year no matter what – so this is a great opportunity to do just that.

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 7:43 PM PST up reply actions  

It has worked that way with Sizemore

He looked like a lost case like Carter/Taylor. But he has performed after giving him a chance to shine.
I think you can not always tell how a player performs with only practice scouting an AAA time. Some guys get the jump better than expected ad some guys worse. A season like we have ahead is a chance to look at a couple of those guys.

I also think it is not getting everyone a free pass to a starting spot. But with Crisp and Reddick the starter to lose, it leaves LF and 4th OF job for a competition between Taylor, Cowgill, Mitchell, Allen (if Barton and Carter win 1B/DH) and maybe even Green/Moss/Peterson as longshots. It would not be a position handed out before the first practice. But a way better chance to earn a job in spring.

What I can see happening in spring is that Crisp/Reddick/Smith have their starting jobs, Kaaihue gets a spot at DH or 4th bench guy cause he is out of options (we know performance doesn’t matter there, Fox and EPat say HI). That means Carter/Allen/Barton can only earn two spots no matter how good their spring performance is, Cowgill/Taylor/Mitchell can only earn 4th OF job no matter their performance. And Rosales as the 4th bench guy together with Sogard and Kaaihue as the DH, leaving Barton/Allen/Carter one spot to earn is also not that unrealistic given the opening day roster desicions of the last couple of years.

by Rio on Jan 17, 2012 5:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Here's the thing

Yes, it’s “now or never” for these 3 guys, based on their ages and time already spent at AAA. No it’s not clear yet what any of them could do over the course of a full major league season.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 7:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Now you're speaking in code

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 7:31 PM PST up reply actions  

How is it clear for Taylor

I mean really. Tell me what 35 plate appearances tells you.

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 7:45 PM PST up reply actions  

It's clear because he's hit .270 in the PCL for two straight years

with a middling BB rate and mediocre power. What on earth is his upside? .260/.330/.450? Can you ever see him doing better than that? That’s completely replaceable for a corner outfielder. It’s not like he’s got Jason Heyward potential. 220 games over the past two years in a hitters’ league should tell you plenty. I don’t know why I should have faith that a 26 year old should put up better numbers against the stiffest competition on the planet than he did against AAA pitching in a hitters’ environment.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 7:51 PM PST up reply actions  

That may be true.

But why not stick him in MLB?

Is Smith getting you to the magical 82?

Is Smith a long term solution?

Is Smith someone the fans want to see?

You can’t answer any of those questions affirmatively. What is the harm in seeing if Taylor has anything?

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 7:54 PM PST up reply actions  

He has nothing. I answer definitively.

.270 in the PCL for 220 games tells you a lot.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 7:58 PM PST up reply actions  

His swing was messed up the first year

and he was getting better last year. Maybe he is a year more cleared up. He still has tools and a slim chance to put it all together at an advanced age. Its about giving him a real chance to earn a spot in spring.

by Rio on Jan 17, 2012 5:39 AM PST up reply actions  

What you could do is go back to his age 22, 23 seasons

where he tore up every level and was a top prospect and then theorize as to what went wrong. If it’s “he stalled” then he’s toast and that’s a real possibility.

But for all we know, maybe his diabetes was a factor, in which case he has a chance to bounce back and be a “late bloomer” in the way a pitcher derailed by TJS might come back stronger 2 years later than planned. You just don’t know.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 7:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Jeez

If Taylor shows he can hit AAA pitching really well, he’ll get his chance. Coco Crisp needs time off; Smith is a platoon player; and Reddick is all you’ve got every day. Plus you’ve got a DH spot. I figure that the A’s will sign Conor Jackson, and then a couple of these guys will break camp with the A’s. As injuries occur, they’ll be brought up and tested.

I think all of them -- Cowgill, Taylor, Carter, Allen, Kila, Mitchell, and Cardenas - will get their chance in 2012.

by richwol1 on Jan 16, 2012 9:12 PM PST up reply actions  

They have also been injured in each of the last two year, right?

Let’s get rid of Anderson as well. He isn’t contributing.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

It really is no different than completely writing off

Gio Gonzalez in 2009 (yes fine, he was younger and that does matter but the point is the same) He pitched 34 innings (7.68 ERA, 7.04 FIP) walked 6.6 per 9.

34 innings a career does not make. But its about as muhc as we have seen out of Carter and way more than Taylor.

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 7:32 PM PST up reply actions  

It just doesn't make sense not to give them a long look in 2012

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 7:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Have they each had enough AB to say that they are valuable or not?

I don’t feel like I have seen enough of either of them.

AN Tailgate = Euphemism for food porn.

by Berry Jo on Jan 16, 2012 7:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Oakland, because the area under the seats are more in need of sweeping there

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 7:32 PM PST up reply actions  

No need to sweep.

Just let him swing a bat and the whooshing sound of his miss will blow the trash away

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 7:34 PM PST up reply actions  

ALOL!

That’s “Actually laughing out loud”.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 7:34 PM PST up reply actions  

AAA

He’d K 250 times in a full season in the majors.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 7:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Drafting 6 or higher (7 8 etc, that wording always gets me)

would be an abject failure in my mind. Too many years have been spent drafting around 10 and not going anywhere. They need to suck, and be good a sucking for a few years. Grab high picks and hope they nail them.

by Copenhagen on Jan 16, 2012 9:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll say it again

Putting a team out there for the distinct purpose of losing is unethical.

by richwol1 on Jan 16, 2012 9:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Ethics schmethics

If Cope or any other fans wants to root for the team to lose, that’s his choice.

Me, I want to win. I’d rather be 82-80 than 81-81, and I’d rather be 74-88 than 69-93.

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 9:29 PM PST up reply actions  

If they want to root for the team to lose...

…that’s their business. But the team itself has to try to win games.

That said, the only way this group wins 82 games is if a couple of the aforementioned rookies or near-rookies have break-out years.

by richwol1 on Jan 16, 2012 10:41 PM PST up reply actions  

That isn't rooting for the team to lose.

That’s really I think an unfair sentiment that makes it sound as if people like me and Copenhagen want us to lose. That isn’t true. I want us to go 162-0 next year. But here’s the thing.

We aren’t going to win. There isn’t a point in shooting for an 80 win team. If we have a team constructed that can win 60 something games and put us into a position to win 90-100 in a few years I think that is best and I think Copenhagen feels the same way. But if this 60-win-construct team wins 90 we will be happy just the same.

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 11:09 PM PST up reply actions  

No I will still be upset

Cause I’m fairly certain that won’t be a repeatable win total and some odd confluence events made it happen.

by Copenhagen on Jan 16, 2012 11:14 PM PST up reply actions  

You're dodging the question.

Of course you’d rather win 90 games than win 60. But would you rather win 70 games than win 60? If the answer is no, then you’re hoping to lose those 10 games.

This came up on with one of the guys from Lookout Landing a few years ago, when beating us in the final series cost the Mariners a draft slot or two. I asked him point blank — I think it was on AN, but possibly on LL — if he was wishing for the M’s to lose that last game, and he didn’t try to dance around it. He said, “Yes, I wanted my team to lose that game.”

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 17, 2012 12:28 AM PST up reply actions  

It isn't that simple though

For me at least, I don’t want the A’s to ever lose (heart) even when it’d better suit them to lose (head). So it isn’t me trying to dance around it. I am sharing my deep and complex emotions with you. haha

by dwishinsky on Jan 17, 2012 10:17 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't want to lose.

However, losing now is probably best for the team in the long run

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 17, 2012 10:20 AM PST up reply actions  

We do not want to field a team of MiLB FA

We want a team with players that have a chance to be average or better but might also suck badly instead of players that are surely average but not more.

by Rio on Jan 17, 2012 5:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Jan 17, 2012 7:45 AM PST up reply actions  

in this case i think it is lower....

1 is at the top and all the other numbers are lower. someone who was picked high in the draft is a good prospect compared to someone who was pick low in the draft

by heartstopper on Jan 17, 2012 2:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I've deduced that they will finish exactly .500

Sizemore is really league-averagey at 3B, and Pennington is similar at SS. Weeks will likely be about league average at 2B next year and Suzuki is a “league average” C. Between Barton and Allen the A’s will probably get league average production out of 1B. An OF of Smith, Crisp, Reddick? Yup. The pitching staff is no longer that good but it’s also not that bad, and the bullpen figures to be “fine”.

I expect the A’s to exactly alternate winning and losing games the entire season.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 9:13 PM PST up reply actions  

(In truth I'm feeling about 72-90 ish right now)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 9:14 PM PST up reply actions  

A new streak every day!

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 9:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Cycle them out with

Jermaine Mitchell or Brandon Allen or Adrian Cardenas or Adam Rosales…

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 6:43 PM PST up reply actions  

They had no problem last year

BA April splits:
Ellis .191
Kouz .208
Barton .209
DDJ .222

It’s close enough, and last year we wanted to contend and thought we had a chance.
They would still wait until June to move some guys in and out. And Carter couldn’t get a real chance even with Matsuis complete suckiness.

by Rio on Jan 17, 2012 4:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Carter was injured most of last season.

He played through it for a while but he wasn’t the same

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 17, 2012 7:43 AM PST up reply actions  

not complete...

july and august were good. tho too little too late

by heartstopper on Jan 17, 2012 2:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Seth Smith... Cindy Brady's worst nightmare.

Theth Thmith?

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz.
~Humphrey Bogart

by UncleLeo on Jan 16, 2012 1:13 PM PST reply actions  

GMs just never consider the "Cindy Brady" factor enough.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Theth Thmith batting thixth.

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 5:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Thadly, Theth Thmith's thithter ith batting thevneth.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 5:57 PM PST up reply actions  

How good is he with the thuithide thqueeth?

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz.
~Humphrey Bogart

by UncleLeo on Jan 16, 2012 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

parker and milone

should and will be in the rotation,,they have both thrown over 100 innings in the minors and done well enough to get to the show last year…what else do they have to prove in AAA? Do you really wanna hold them back for service time? these are players who deserve to play in the bigs…sending them to AAA could have a negative impact on their pitching..especially emotionally…dont forget these are people…confidence in sports is huge.

Ray Fosse thinks Pete Rose is a prick......

by oakwin2004 on Jan 16, 2012 1:13 PM PST reply actions  

I like this point...

I didn’t think of it that way… However I really think Parker could use AAA time to get his secondary stuff back to par post TJ and Peacock also need a bit more AAA time, Milone might be ready however. Also they could mow down minor leaguers and build confidence that way

by HarbirD on Jan 16, 2012 1:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I keep seeing many comments about...

…not rushing Carter. Not rushing Taylor. Now, not rushing Allen. At what point do we actually find out whether or not they are MLB players?

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz.
~Humphrey Bogart

by UncleLeo on Jan 16, 2012 1:16 PM PST reply actions  

Carter has crushed the minor leagues

but I think his competition for playing time with the A’s is Barton and Allen at 1B/DH. So I don’t think the new outfield depth affects Carter.

by colin on Jan 16, 2012 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Wish they'd sign Mila.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

THAT would fill the seats!

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 4:41 PM PST up reply actions  

It does in that Allen could've played LF

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Jan 16, 2012 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm just saying if the plan is Allen/Barton for 1B/DH

Then these outfield moves blocked Allen’s potential move to LF, thus blocking Carter as well.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Jan 16, 2012 3:33 PM PST up reply actions  

It's extremely unlikely that we end spring training with Carter, Allen, and Barton healthy and posting amazing spring training #s

If that’s the case, I’m sure we’ll figure something out. Otherwise, I think it’s fine to stash one of them in AAA.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't really care about Allen

So if it’s Barton at 1B and Carter at DH I’ll be alright.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Jan 16, 2012 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Based on the offseason moves

A’s dont view them as mlb players.

A’s resigned crisp and added 3 new OF’s through trade, so much for Taylor just 2 yrs ago being hyped as a future corner stone hitter

by J.J. Miller on Jan 16, 2012 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

It's Parker/Peacock/Gray that they should not rush

Parker has never seen AAA and his results post-TJ were not great like before.
Peacock has only 48 innings of AAA with mediocre results and scouting reports that see reliever in him. Which pretty much means he definitely has something to work on down in Sacto.
Gray is freshly drafted with good results in little playing time in AA. Has also enough to work on, that I would like him to even beginn the season in Midland.

by Rio on Jan 16, 2012 1:25 PM PST up reply actions  

IMO gray shouldnt be an option anytime soon

Some saying he’ll be ready by late 2012 is way too soon. I remember the mlb ready, polish of james simmons , that worked out well

by J.J. Miller on Jan 16, 2012 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Simmons has nothing to do with Gray.

Lots of first round college starters were ready for the show with very little minor league time, like Mike Leake and Tim Lincecum, who were both drafted right around where Gray was whereas Simmons was drafted far below Gray.

by BWH on Jan 16, 2012 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Hmm...

… I give it a “meh”

Trading from the fringes of the team’s “strength” to add to the fringes of the team’s weakness…

On the other hand, if he’s as good of a PH as reported, maybe he can be flipped down the line to a contender for something more interesting?

by RickeySteals on Jan 16, 2012 1:19 PM PST reply actions  

parker

AA…..MY BAD…..

Ray Fosse thinks Pete Rose is a prick......

by oakwin2004 on Jan 16, 2012 1:35 PM PST reply actions  

Smith

is this year’s attempt at David DeJesus.

Let’s just hope it’s the 2010 DeJesus that shows up.

by CaseyRoyal on Jan 16, 2012 1:45 PM PST reply actions  

AL West, here we come!

Bartolo Colon = CJ Wilson
Seth Smith = Albert Pujols

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 1:53 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

Nobody gets blocked by this

Crisp, JRed and Smith, will open the year out there but does anybody really think they will “block” Taylor, Cowgill or others? I think not. It just gives a slightly more presentable opening day OF. Smith was a somewhat warm commodity this hot stove season and it is a nice pickup.
More concerning to me and heavily mentioned in this string already is how and who will fill those 2 rotation spots with. Parker and Peacock my be rushing things a bit huh?

Baja been here

by bajablue on Jan 16, 2012 1:58 PM PST reply actions  

Good point, if these guys "block" Taylor and Cowgill then do we really want Taylor and Cowgill

If they can’t prove they can outperform Smith, do we really want them running out there?

by Maverick10126 on Jan 16, 2012 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

There are still 2 OF spots on the MLB roster, so yes, nobody gets blocked.

Cowgill and Taylor I would guess are the front-runners. Mitchell would be in the mix if he was healthy. Allen could be in the mix, although I think he’ll be focused on trying to win the 1B job. Moss, Fiorentino, maybe Cardenas as well. The two best out of this pile of potential/dreck will crack the roster.

In addition, it’s not like Reddick has a stone cold lock on a starting spot.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Crisp and Smith aren't blocking Cowgill and Allen/Taylor from getting MLB spots,

but they do prevent them from getting playing time, which is more important.

by NateHST on Jan 16, 2012 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

We'll see, but if Taylor and Cowgill aren't good enough to win a roster spot it's a moot point.

Regardless I would rather the A’s go out and get a decent player like Smith than a CoJack or something to fill the roster.

The point is though that nobody in the starting OF is a world-beater (all 3 are probably near MLB average players). If any of the young guys perform they will see a lot of playing time.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

The point is that even though we had Ellis, a stalwart in Oakland if there ever was one,

Even Ellis did not block a good player from coming up and proving his worth. So you can be sure Reddick and Smith would not block a truly talented player from playing.

They will, however, block AAAA and average AAA players, which is fine.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 2:26 PM PST up reply actions  

but ellis DID block a talented player

who knows if weeks would have been called up IF ellis did not get hurt. lucky he did

by heartstopper on Jan 17, 2012 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

All this tells me...

is that the A’s didn’t have much faith in Outman or Moscoso. If they though those guys weren’t going to contribute much and would be out of the rotation by June than getting something for them now makes sense.

I really hope they were right and we don’t regret this later. If it means anything, I think the odds are better of them being right.

by DrDoom on Jan 16, 2012 2:07 PM PST reply actions  

I see plenty of comments here lamenting service clocks.

If a guy is ready, he’s ready. You promote him – you don’t throw his development curve into a blender to retain an extra year of control based on the owners’ portfolio. Jesus, this is one of the last sacred things that money in the game hasn’t defiled: when guys are ready, they start. Anyone purporting this to be a bad move because it starts a clock early has their head stuck in a cloud of cash.

Also, fangraphs thinks this move is laughably one sided. Sorry if this is a double link.

by sleepingcobra on Jan 16, 2012 2:10 PM PST reply actions  

Except tey aren't ready

Milone is the only guy who even deserves consideration for the rotation out of ST.
Nothing Parker or Peacock do in the spring should warrant a spot, they are not ready.

by stranahanahan on Jan 16, 2012 2:15 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Except Peacock got brought up by the Nationals last year

and the A’s think he’s very close, too. Since service clock shouldn’t be an issue, I don’t see Peacock getting a shot if he looks good in ST being one either.

by sleepingcobra on Jan 16, 2012 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

He's got a total of 11 starts above AA

His K/BB rate in AAA was 2.0, and it was much worse in a SSS in the Majors. He’s simply not ready, and nothing he does in Spring Training will suggest that he is ready.
Parker also needs to continue to build arm strength coming off of TJS, and he should be doing so in AAA, instead of having to battle against lineups like Texas and the slegnA on a regular basis.
Am I missing something that suggest these guys are ready? Because I really don’t see it for either. Both these guys need to make 15 starts in AAA with success before they jump into the rotation.

by stranahanahan on Jan 16, 2012 10:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Technically the fangraphs article

only said that it was a bad move for the Rockies — it did not actually claim it was a good trade for the A’s.

Could this be a classic lose-lose trade?

by AsFanInLA on Jan 16, 2012 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow, what an absolutely terrible move.

I’ve now lost complete faith in Billy Beane to run a rebuild, let alone a ball club.
This makes no sense. Smith does nothing for the A’s going forward, other than fill space and take ABs away from Cowgill, Taylor and whoever else would otherwise get a look. Now I’m not saying any of them are going to be good, but we’ll never know unless we put them out there, and now we’re preventing them from doing so by putting an OFer who is the definition of average out there.
And then, to trade away Outman and Moscoso, 2 guys who were going to keep guys like Parker and Peacock in the minors a little longer, which they both need, is irresponsible and tells me Beane is just impatient again.
I’m incredibly discouraged right now, someone talk me off the ledge…

by stranahanahan on Jan 16, 2012 2:12 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

This

"BA doesn't stand for Batting Average. It’s Brandon Allen, as in the percentage of a hitter’s worth compared to Brandon Allen. Ted Williams, at his best, was only 4/10th of the hitter Brandon Allen is today." - YonYonson

by hero66 on Jan 16, 2012 4:09 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

This is why the Coco signing puzzles me a bit

If you’re “finding out what you have,” wouldn’t finding out whether Reddick or Cowgill can cut it in CF be a good use of 2012?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

You'll find out soon enough

You’ll know in spring training if Reddick or Cowgill can cut it in CF, and if so, it will give the A’s flexibility.

I think what all these signings and trades mean is that the team is not confident that any of the farmhand position players at the end of 2011 will be able to make the grade at the beginning of 2012.

I’ll say it again: these other guys have to earn their playing time.

by richwol1 on Jan 16, 2012 6:22 PM PST up reply actions  

When robots get angry they spew random sequences of letters

;-(

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 8:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Gigs

Short for Gigabytes?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 8:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Earn their playing time how?

I don’t understand this argument. Basically, we’re asking for any guy who wants a starting spot on this team to hit a hot streak for 20 games and if they do they’ll be starting.
There is a problem with this organization if that’s the way they are making decisions every year on the Opening Day rosters, and judging by some of those made in recent years, that’s probably exactly what they’re doing.

by stranahanahan on Jan 16, 2012 10:06 PM PST up reply actions  

They earn playing time by showing they don't belong in AAA

…and can hit major league pitching. Jake Fox notwithstanding, the back end of the roster makes the team based on spring training performance, but then they’ve got to perform in the majors. I have no idea why Fox and Patterson got so many chance, but they did - and so will this crowd at some point.

by richwol1 on Jan 16, 2012 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

There are still 2 OF spots on the roster!
Cowgill, Taylor and whoever else would otherwise get a look

Cowgill, Taylor, and the rest of our AAA/AAAA dreck will get a look…for the remaining 2 OF spots.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

No idea how to rate this until I see how they plan to use Smith

I mean, is he being handed a job opening day? Is he a strict platoon guy in an attempt to gain a competitive edge? Or is he a true fourth outfielder to be used if all the rookies collectively fail and we’re left with Smith as the contingency plan?

by Ciderbeck on Jan 16, 2012 2:15 PM PST reply actions  

Too me, this reads "everyday player"
JohnSheaHey John Shea
#Athletics Beane likes Smith cuz prime of career, contractual control, badly needed power. Despite poor #s vs. LHs, will play regularly.
JohnSheaHey John Shea
Seth Smith will get chance with #Athletics to improve his fate vs. LHs. Beane: “He’s got too much power not to get that opportunity.”

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Jan 16, 2012 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

To me

There was no faith in either Outman or Moscosco making the rotation. He really needed another spot on his 40 man roster and 1 or both were going regardless. He also did not want to be forced to carry or start a rookie OF. Smith is a solid OF who might be a 4th OF on a contender but not a bad starter on a .500 team. His salary is cheap for this year on a team that is probably being pressured to spend more then they recieve from profit sharing.

If one of the rookies hit this spring he will be carried and there will be a rotation between all of the Of’s, DH and 1st base assuring a lot of playing time for everyone. That and how often have the A’s made it throug springh training and the first month of the season w/o some injury or struggling to hit their weight. Smith is a solid player but not a super star and can easily be flipped later if we have roster problems.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Jan 16, 2012 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I dunno

I still don’t think there’s enough ABs to go around this year.

Carter, Allen, Kila, and Barton at 1B?

Taylor, Reddick, Cowgill, Smith for the two corner OF spots?

Actually, just adding Smith doesn’t add too much clutter. What I really don’t want to see are short leashes applied to these guys. If we’re going with say Taylor let’s give him a couple hundred ABs out there to show his stuff. Don’t want these guys going 0-one week at the plate and being shuttled to AAA.

My hope is that Smith starts the season as the 4th outfielder. I doubt that’s how it’ll play out but a solid pinch hitter would be fun and if injuries occur (boy a hope we fixed that problem some) then Smith’s ready to go.

by Ciderbeck on Jan 16, 2012 10:02 PM PST up reply actions  

OK

That helps my original dislike of this trade.
Thank you

by RudiBlue72 on Jan 16, 2012 7:10 PM PST up reply actions  

No. That we can't win.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

On the platoon thing...

The AL West is a little heavy on righties right now. CJ Wilson and Jason Vargas are the only lefty starters (not on the A’s) with a likely spot in opening day rotations. So it may be an ok time to acquire a guy like Smith.

by DrDoom on Jan 16, 2012 2:16 PM PST reply actions  

Frankly Smith would have been the best hitter on our team last season.

So when you have a chance to trade completely replaceable pitchers for that, why not?

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry, I should have specified, by OPS.

But yes, Willingham was a better hitter, Sizemore was probably better if you choose not to count his Tigers numbers. But Smith was very comparable to both, so adding another Willingham/Sizemore level of hitter, I’m not opposed to it.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 16, 2012 7:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I went by wRC+, by which Smith would have been the A's 3rd best hitter.

Even so, you’ve given up 2 cheap SP’s on a team that will probably need a lot of depth at that position (how many innings can you expect from Colon/McCarthy/Braden?) for a hitter that isn’t very good and can’t possibly fit into the long-term plans of a team that’s rebuilding. If you really want to get rid of Out Man and Moose Costco, at least get some young players with upside.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 8:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes

I am not mad that they got Seth Smith. But I also don’t think they got their money’s worth as Moscoso and Outman are two players that they need to get through the year, now they have to magically conjure 2 back of the rotation starters.

Since they are young players with no upside, unlikely that you would be able to get young players with upside in return, so I agree it does beg the question, why trade them at all?

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 17, 2012 7:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Because there is some replacement-level pitcher they can acquire for nothing?

"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer

by cuppingmaster on Jan 17, 2012 8:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, you're probably right.

I guess we just traded completely replaceable pieces for our best hitting OF.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 17, 2012 8:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Outman and Moscoso aren't that young.

They’re 27 and 28 respectively. Even if they only yielded a couple of 20 year olds with live arms and poor control, or 1-dimensional position players, that would fit in better with the team’s long term plans than Smith does.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 17, 2012 1:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Hmm

Link?

RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!

by niallmack on Jan 16, 2012 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

ouch

seems that video was a little premature re: CarGon

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Jan 16, 2012 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Hah

Wondering when that clip was going to appear. Could be accurate though if Cowgill, Taylor, and Reddick all push for some ABs.

by Ciderbeck on Jan 16, 2012 10:04 PM PST up reply actions  

just read that too

they think Beane got a potential steal. Prove Smith can play everyday and trade him to a contender.

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Jan 16, 2012 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I think Billy just likes to trade the players that we've given nicknames to.

I was ‘eh’ on Moose and Outman, I’m ‘eh’ on Seth Smith so… yeah.

Hitters from Colorado make me nervous. :-/

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Jan 16, 2012 2:55 PM PST reply actions  

Can we get a nickname for Zooks, then?

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

"Slugger"

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 4:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Irony, thy name is Tutu-late.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 4:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Kinda like his swings:)

especially the ones that hit him in the chest.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 4:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Smehth.

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 5:57 PM PST up reply actions  

This is like some one offering you their car for your bicycle

Would you really say: Nah, I already have a car. derp.

Cardenas!!!! WoooooooooooooHOOOOOOOOO

by Mattel on Jan 16, 2012 3:07 PM PST reply actions  

Anyone mention he was Eli Manning's backup QB?

Friend:why do you love ripping on Jeff Francoeur?
Me: Because hes an idiot, who posseses huge physical tools but will not, nay, cannot, harness those tools into any sembelance of usable baseball skill and refuses to make any effort to do so. Hes like a tragic greek figure. doomed by his own stupidity and 80 raw power.

by harendaman365 on Jan 16, 2012 3:33 PM PST reply actions  

yeah, it's in there somewhere.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 16, 2012 4:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Fanfest

Can we get these players to wear name tags…

Re-sign Josh Willingham now!

by sf drift king on Jan 16, 2012 5:59 PM PST reply actions  

No need to worry.

As McCarthy said, they will need the name tags to introduce the players to each other.

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 6:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Holy crap!

I just heard about Michael Pineda for Jesús Montero. That freakin’ blows my mind.

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 6:29 PM PST reply actions  

Presumably.

I avoid the news. And I didn’t go to work today.

I just now noticed it on the SBN sidebar.

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 6:42 PM PST up reply actions  

The front page of AN

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 6:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 7:05 PM PST up reply actions  

It wasn't in any of the meta threads either.

Uh, not that I was spending all my time there are anything…. <looks at feet>

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Moscoso and Outman

were surely not part of the 2015 plans, and Smith, very well could be part of the plan. To me that is the primary thinking of BB. Plus Smith adds some offensive creditability in the near future. I also think that BB will just carve together a starting rotation, until Anderson and Braden are healthy without pushing up the MLB timeclock on the newly acquired young pitchers.

Do I like the trade? On the surface yes, but as in all trades, it really remains to be seen. In this case can Moscoso and Outman learn to pitch at 5,000 feet, and/or can Smith adjust to the foul ball acreage and incoming winds in Oakland.

Who the hell knows the answers to these questions?

by robertmelvin on Jan 16, 2012 6:46 PM PST reply actions  

I think they're all not part of the plan

Smith will be turning 32 and coming to the end of a contract, and has never been that good. Probably not a big factor in our 2015 plans.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 6:51 PM PST up reply actions  

His Bio says born September 1982?

or 29 years old by my calculations, and just entering his prime, so to say….so he could very well be on board in 2015. Of course, if he get’s too hot the first half of 2012, BB would probably move him for 2 or 3 prospects.

by robertmelvin on Jan 16, 2012 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Full Name: Garry Seth Smith
Born: September 30, 1982 in Jackson, MS
Height: 6’ 3’’
Weight: 210
Bats: Left
Throws: Left
College: Mississippi
MLB Debut: September 16, 2007

Choose Year2010200920082007200620052004

Biography

Garry Seth Smith…married to wife, Lindsay…the couple had a daughter, Sienna Elizabeth, last April (2009)…signed June 16, 2004 by Damon Iannelli…in 2003, Smith was a member of the USA National Team that won a silver medal at the Pan American Games…batted .322 with 4 homers and 9 RBI for Team USA…was a five-year letterwinner in baseball at Hillcrest Christian High School in Jackson, Miss…helped lead Hillcrest to Class 4A baseball state championships in 1997 and 1998…hit .434 as a freshman, .483 as a sophomore, .400 as a junior and .500 as a senior…named Mississippi Private School Association 4A MVP in football…was named all-conference in basketball (twice) and soccer (three times)…selected by Arizona in the 48th round of 2001 June draft, but went to Ole Miss.

by robertmelvin on Jan 16, 2012 10:12 PM PST up reply actions  

With Crisp, Smith, and Colon on board

it’s probably time for the A’s to think about blowing this thing up and starting over.

by RLangford on Jan 16, 2012 7:28 PM PST reply actions  

Ludwick is OFF the table.

Reds To Sign Ryan Ludwick

The Reds have agreed to sign free agent outfielder Ryan Ludwick to a one-year deal that includes a mutual option for 2013, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets. Ludwick gets a $2.5MM guarantee and could earn another $500K in incentives.

"You can attract a hitter but you can't make him hit" -Lou Wolff

by Geronimo Berroa on Jan 16, 2012 7:33 PM PST reply actions  

+1

Waiting for Damon to sign…. Elsewhere.

"You can attract a hitter but you can't make him hit" -Lou Wolff

by Geronimo Berroa on Jan 16, 2012 7:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, now we can get onto the important business

Of signing Conor Jackson to a long-term contract. To play 1B.

"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer

by cuppingmaster on Jan 16, 2012 7:44 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Can't he play "AAAA OFer"?

We don’t have enough.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 16, 2012 7:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm honored to have seen one of his two 3B starts last year

Actually, he wasn’t bad there. But that was pre-Sizemore.

"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer

by cuppingmaster on Jan 16, 2012 8:09 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

And keep the AN Hotties happy.

When they are happy, we ALL are happy!

"Trying not to rec a "***k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm

by Tutu-late on Jan 16, 2012 8:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Great Move! Terrible Move!

..and everything in between, is what I have been reading. All I know is that I just voted an extra “tick” on scale for the A’s Condifence Vote on AN; up from 12.% to 25.0%. So it is double what it was before Coco, Colon and Smith, but still a 75% lack of confience in the team.

by robertmelvin on Jan 16, 2012 9:48 PM PST reply actions  

I believe the exact phrasing is "how are you feeling" about the A's

That’s more vague than an MVP vote. Coco’s back? I feel great about the entertainment value. Think they’ll win the West because of Colon? Well, I feel like we’re not.

Interesting source of trade approval data. Just not sure what to trust. Maybe my trust issues are just cropping up because Billy Beane apparently watched Moneyball: The Movie over the holidays and said “I want to be like that guy!”.

Can you just imagine him in his office. Hey, I want Seth Smith. Who can we get for Smith? Well, the Rockies have about eight guys lined up for starting pitching jobs, but they don’t like any of ‘em. Hey, but there are some great buy low veterans pitchers on the market. We can ALWAYS just add another one of those. Hey, Colon, you’re on the A’s! Yo, Rockies, happen to have some MLB ready arms if you want to REALLY stir the pot in Spring Training. Only costs you Smith, and hey you don’t even like Smith so how’s about it?

Yeah, so, good movie, right? Especially when Colon won Comeback Player of the Year, Smith finished 3rd in MVP voting and the A’s once again lost in the first round of the playoffs?

by Ciderbeck on Jan 16, 2012 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

If we do need another AAAA starting pitcher in May,

we’ll probably be able to claim one off waivers from the Rockies.

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Jan 16, 2012 10:55 PM PST up reply actions  

that's for sure

since they seem to be collecting them right now.

Re-sign Josh Willingham now!

by sf drift king on Jan 16, 2012 11:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I've read that at least two of the ten candidates will likely go to the pen

So that only leaves three of Rockies pitchers completely out of the mix. De La Rosa is still recovering from surgery so at least until he’s back they will likely only be sending two of the AAAA squad back to the minors.

Crazy that no-one’s locked into starting spots, but not overly excessive hording. Going to be a wild spring for the Rockies. I do hope Outman makes the rotation. Even though he’s not with us anymore, I’m still curious to see if can turn into an effective mid-rotation MLB pitcher. Plus, purple stirrups, yikes!

by Ciderbeck on Jan 17, 2012 11:26 AM PST up reply actions  

at first i thought this was a joke

then I realized that Beane is trading away good players to teams in exchange for their for votes on a san jose move

by gratefuldude on Jan 16, 2012 9:59 PM PST reply actions  

Adapt Or Die

The new market inefficiency is new stadiums. Look at Miami this year. Here’s the thing though. Those other teams spent years doing business off the field. Public votes, financing, ect. That market’s tapped. What we’ll offer instead is on-field talent. That’s right, we’ll turn the players themselves into a new stadium, then use that to get even better players. Genius.

by Ciderbeck on Jan 16, 2012 10:18 PM PST up reply actions  

If I am Colorado...

And i just got two fly ball pitchers at Coors Field… San Jose lost my vote…

by dwishinsky on Jan 16, 2012 11:11 PM PST up reply actions  

If you're Colorado, you should've done your homework.

Also, if you’re Colorado, you should be in favor of anything the Giants oppose.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 17, 2012 1:35 PM PST up reply actions  

yes

the enemy of my enemy is my friend

by heartstopper on Jan 17, 2012 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

ah, come on!!! I thought we were rebuilding!

Next thing you know we trade for another OF from CO who will hit .239/.299/.407 for us.

maybe we can flip him mid-season to the Cardinals for a pudgy third baseman.

by oakballnack on Jan 16, 2012 10:48 PM PST reply actions  

well let's take a look, shall we?

There won’t be any Brett Wallaces, but there’s Matt Carpenter at 6’3’’, 200 or 2.67 on the Pudge Index. Zack Cox clocks in at 2.98 and Niko Vasquez is just 2.46.

None can ever match Wallace’s heaving 3.37, but you can only get so much pudge for Seth Smith.

by dennet on Jan 17, 2012 11:29 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

We were all confused but I think I finally got it

Art Howe from the moneyball movie comes back to manage the A’s. He won’t play Milone because his fastball is too slow. Beane makes the trade force Art Howe to stop being a d!ck.

by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 17, 2012 7:22 AM PST reply actions  

Just Saw This

My first reaction was disbelief (what’s with all the moves?) and i didn’t feel that this actually helps the team, but looking at it, I feel that this a good – maybe even great – trade for Oakland. This changes the makeup of the rotation, meaning that some of the guys who we recently acquired will start the season in the Majors, and Smith could hit 20 homers and drive in 80 runs.
One thing this does show is that Beane is being careful with guys like Cowgill and Taylor, which is why he signed Reddick and now Seth Smith.
I like it.

by Sean Fortuna on Jan 17, 2012 8:09 AM PST reply actions  

Smith couldn't hit 20 HR's playing in Colorado.

I really doubt he can do it in Oakland.

"The Lord has blessed us with birthday cake!"

by ozzman99 on Jan 17, 2012 1:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd be thrilled beyond belief

if lefty-lefty late inning pinch hitting matchups wound up being important to our season!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 17, 2012 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Sometimes...

I think Billy just makes trades for the sake of making trades. Frankly, I don’t see any of the recent trades he’s made actually helping the team at all. Maybe he is just waiting for a stadium to be built & is just doing “busy work” in the meantime. All movement but not going anywhere. Just sideways stuff. What is sure is that the A’s will be a crap team for the next 3-4 years minimum. They will be an incredibly boring & non-competative team for the the next 3 years. Just wait till this season starts. It will be more interesting watching grass grow than the A’s. Gonna be lots of 7-1 and 6-0 games too. There are only 2 reasons for me to watch the A’s now-Braden & Jermaine period. I’ll wait until they are actually a .500 team before buying tickets anymore. Tired of watching crap on the field all of the time.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings...but she is on a diet now!

by Bulgaricus on Jan 18, 2012 12:14 AM PST reply actions  

do you mean jemile (weeks)?

jermaine probably won’t be with the club at the beginning of the season

by heartstopper on Jan 18, 2012 6:48 AM PST up reply actions  

do you mean jemile (weeks)?

jermaine probably won’t be with the club at the beginning of the season?

by heartstopper on Jan 18, 2012 6:48 AM PST reply actions  

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