Bartolo Colon and the Myth of Rotation Depth
Jayson Stark of ESPN now reports it is a done deal: Bartolo Colon to A's on a one-year, pending a physical.
Yesterday Buster Olney of ESPN tweeted that the A's were in negotiation with Bartolo Colon. Then last night Bob Nightengale of USA Today tweeted that Colon had agreed to a deal with a team but won't divulge the club until he passes his physical. Then later yesterday Jon Heyman of CBSSports chimed in with a tweet that said that two teams rumored to be intrigued by Colon - Arizona and the Yankees - were not the clubs he signed with. That left one rumored suitor, your Oakland Athletics.
Colon will be 39 years old this May and spent last season in Yankee pinstripes going 164 1/3 innings with an even 4.00 ERA and better than that 3.83 FIP. While his xFIP was a better 3.57, he really gave up home runs at a similar rate to what he always had during his career (11.4% in 2011, 11.0% for his career). He bettered both his K/9 (7.4 in 2011, 7.0 career) and BB/9 (2.2 in 2011, 3.0 career) rates while matching his HR/9 rate at 1.1 which is somewhat noteworthy because while Colon hasn't played in pitcher's parks for a lot of his career, Yankee Stadium is particularly home run friendly. The 2005 Cy Young Award winner will be 39 so it is unknown just how much gas is left in the tank, and furthermore it is currently unknown not only what club has signed him but how much he has signed for though he received $900K last year from the Yankees. But whether it is Colon or some other veteran starter, do the A's need rotation depth?
If you read around on the internet, you'd see lots of people who would answer that question with an unequivocal no. The line of thinking is that the A's have a lot of starting pitching depth. But do they really? Not when you look at it. It seems like Brandon McCarthy who was last year's "won the 5th starter job in Spring Training" guy will be the top of the rotation pitcher for the A's. For all my disbelief that what we saw from Guillermo Moscoso last year can be replicated he appears to be the #2 as Dallas Braden another pitcher you could put in either of those slots likely won't be ready by Opening Day but hopefully is sometime in April. So for the sake of this argument let's stick him in as one of the top three and go to #4, is it Josh Outman? Graham Godfrey? Do we go with a new acquisition like Tom Milone or Jarrod Parker? As you can see the decisions start to get more difficult, and remember this is giving a slot to Braden that he may not even be available for.
The point is there is a lot of depth per se, but there isn't a lot of "don't waste your service time, don't get rattled and spooked by MLB hitting" pitching in there. I don't think any A's fans want 2012 to be a make or break year for the likes of Parker or Brad Peacock or even lower-upside Milone. Likewise I don't think any of us want to see that much of Graham Godfrey, and there can be good arguments made that Josh Outman is far from a finished product still despite hanging around a few years. Tyson Ross is a perennial injury risk who has pitched terribly since his return from his last injury, and even looking at the "top" of the rotation, McCarthy is a perennial injury risk and Guillermo Moscoso is one year removed from being DFA'd by Texas and shipped to Oakland for nothing (which could be a major faux pas by the Rangers or could be indicative that he really isn't all that great - speaking of DFA'd don't we all wish we hung onto Phil Humber?).
By signing a Colon, or an Oswalt (Oswalt clearly being the superior pitcher) the A's can gain some additional flexibility with their rotation and not have to force one of the young arms to pitch through trouble. We can let these young arms ripen in Sacramento and blossom into the 2015 American League West Champions we all hope they can blossom into. Furthermore for any of these pitchers the benefit is that it is nearly assured they will be dealt at the line to a contender, providing further bang for the Athletics' limited buck. So I say let's hope we are the mystery team in this low-stakes bidding! Let's see what this old guy has left in his tank, if he can show us what we showed us in person on Memorial Day but wearing our jersey, it'll be icing on the cake.
114 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I think it helps to have a veteran on the staff
He’s got a lot of experience in high stress situations. Good for us if he goes to the A’s.
I'm all for this pursuit and signing because it tells me something positively coming out of the Front Office
They’re not going to rush Parker, Peacock and Gray. While I certainly think Oswalt would be a more logical choice, being that if healthy he’ll actually net something at the deadline, Colon will probably be at least $3-4M cheaper. And if that amount of money is what is needed in order to sign Jorge Soler, then I would take the Colon signing over Oswalt as I’d much rather have Soler then anything Oswalt may bring back in return at the deadline.
I think it probably is more than $3-4M, could be more like $5-6 cheaper
If I guess Colon gets like $2-3M with performance bonuses? Oswalt could easily be $7-9M or so? Of course you get what you pay for. There is a difference between the two. I think that Colon if he pitches as he did last year will have value. Let’s not forget the Mariners got Trayvon Robinson in a three-team deal that sent Bedard to the Red Sox.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
I could not agree more, dwishinksy
I think the A’s rotation depth organizationally is a myth when you consider the bust rate of young pitchers. Signing Colon, just as a bridge to Anderson or for Parker or Peacock to come up mid-year instead of right away, is a great move IMO.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jan 15, 2012 10:01 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
And we don't want to force that bust rate
By having someone get eaten alive and then have no choice but to leave them in the rotation.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
I like that this gives us the benefit of not having to count on Braden
And Anderson while also keeping the young guys developing at a reasonable rate in aaa
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
just one note of caution
Colón seemed to run out of gas later in the season. In fact, towards the end of September there were multiple reports of a significant diminishing of his fastball velocity, and that he was in danger of being left off the postseason roster. In 2012 he will be a year older, so it’s reasonable to suppose that he’ll have less in the tank and will run out of gas sooner.
flip him earlier
Just need to flip him earlier. Ten starts into the season, start looking to move him. If he is gone after 15 starts, that is likely long enough to allow of the the AAA young kids to come up
That is a very good point.
The A’s could conceivably go with a 6-man rotation also to see what they have as opposed to using a Josh Outman or Tyson Ross as a swingman. That’d aid everyone perhaps in a non-contending year.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
This
I remember a few years ago when we rolled the six man briefly. Anderson was dominant consistantly hitting 97.. I think a Harden injury ended my dream(as was often the case).. Would rather we do it sans Fatolo though…
by Tony Nochelino on Jan 15, 2012 5:57 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
That's all nice.
but his value for the A’s runs out well before the 150 inning point in 2012.
Nick Swisher and Johnny Giavatella deserve treats in the Kaufmann parking lot.
yes
Ok with plan….but not sure you should end with the word cake, let alone icing on cake. This is Colon we speak of
That's what I thought of when reading this post!
I’m just not a fan of Bartolo Colon. I like the move to add depth to the rotation but I just have a hard time looking at the guy….I know, it’s shallow of me but he isn’t the most attractive fella. Will we go out and get Oswalt, too now?
Go A’s!
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Let's face it
Shrek belongs on the A’s any way. Who else would look as good in green?
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jan 15, 2012 10:41 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Not even if he eats up all those innings?
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jan 15, 2012 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
I know that this is probably not the place to ask this question...
But what is the deal with Dusty Coleman? How come he doesn’t show up on “prospects lists” (i.e. Sickels most recent)? Does he suck?
At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was an idiot.
Thanks.
At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was an idiot.
by the_rozeboom on Jan 15, 2012 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
Well the A's had good pitching depth before trading away two starters and two relievers...
Bartolo Colon. Sure. Whatever. He can be this year’s over the hill guy.
They had decent mlb ready pitching depth with back rotation upside
But not in the minors basically consisted of gray (still a bit far away), godfrey, banwart, in the upper levels.
by J.J. Miller on Jan 15, 2012 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
the cynic in me says this is just to avoid the wrath of the MLBPA union.
no way a 39 year old pitcher (unless his name is Ryan or Moyer) will do much to help out the A’s avoiding an utterly embarrasing season. At least if they go with all juniors, they would have an excuse.
Look at Ross his first time up (and Anderson too, for that matter). Bringing up a “too-young” pitcher hasn’t hurt the A’s in the past (it’s Ross’ injury-comeback that’s been bad, sure).
by rollierollieOxenfree on Jan 15, 2012 11:15 AM PST reply actions
News tidbits
Colon turned down dbacks offer. I wouldnt do more than 1.5 mill + incentives.
Any mention of bringing back harden? Oswalt still wants 8-10 mill, so probably a bit too expensive for a short term pickup. Believe it or not, Ben Sheets has looked healthy and throwing in the low 90’s, how about him on a minor league deal?
Also Gio has signed a 5 yr extension with nats.
I'm fine with any of those ideas.
I’m curious to see the particulars re: the Gio deal.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Good for Gio
I haz a sad now….
:(
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
by mrod on Jan 15, 2012 4:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, I miss him
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Done deal Jayson Stark tweet
Bartolo Colon has agreed to a one-year big-league deal with the A’s, pending a physical. More to come at http://ESPN.com.
MY dad's family is from Norway!
Slegna must die!
by Athletics fan and runner on Jan 16, 2012 4:39 AM PST up reply actions
Not for Swedes.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
I'd only consider milone and godfrey among the "mlb ready" group
No reason to rush parker, peacock, or gray. I also wouldnt be surprised if banwart gets some chances too
Opening Day rotation
McCarthy
Colon
Outman
Moscoso
Milone
The top of that rotation resembles spaghetti and meatballs.
I agree with your rotation.
(Hope this isn’t a reply fail.) Colon will get dealt at the deadline, and then you can slot in Anderson and Braden when they’re ready.
"You're all like big, fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 15, 2012 12:02 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Injury risk and all
Probably a bit too risky to net much even if he performs well. He is an innings eater + an appeasement to the MLB good squad wanting us to field something close to an mlb team.
Baja been here
I'd have Outman at 5
But otherwise looks good to start with Braden pushing Outman into a swingman when he is ready
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
by dwishinsky on Jan 15, 2012 12:15 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Is that a rhetorical question?
At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was an idiot.
by the_rozeboom on Jan 15, 2012 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
Round is a shape...
At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was an idiot.
by the_rozeboom on Jan 15, 2012 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 7 recs
we're going to hear reports
that he’s in the best shape of his life!!!
When we played softball, I’d steal second base, feel guilty and go back.
- Woody Allen
by rhymeswithelephant on Jan 15, 2012 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
Everyone is everyyear.
One day in the not-so-distant future it will be, everyone is in the best shape possible and that year everyteam will play to 81-81 everyone will share batting and pitching titles and sports will become obsolete.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Yeah, a post about baseball!
Even if it is about Colon.
JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker
He won't be flipped, most likely...
Unless he is put on waivers, or someone wants him September 1st, and then he goes for nothing.
By mid-season, the A’s should have Anderson back, and a couple of the younger pitchers may be ready to tackle the major leagues. But in April, everything is uncertain and Colon hopefully will be as he was last spring — strong and rarin’ to go. In some ways it’s the perfect signing, assuming he passes the physical and can pitch well coming out of spring training.
Why can't he be flipped at the deadline?
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
He could be...
…but usually that means that the person won’t slip through waivers later on. Given Colon’s 2011 stats, I doubt anybody would rush to trade for someone who is 39 and whose stats fell off a cliff during the final two months of the season. That’s why I think he’s more likely to be a late summer trade (if he doesn’t fall off a cliff) than a trading deadline trade.
Why would he need to slip through waivers later on if he was dealt at the deadline?
I just don’t see anyone counting on him suddenly falling off a cliff. Especially given the cost isn’t high. He wouldn’t be dealt for a super-star. Look the Red Sox neared a deal for Bruce Chen for ONE START to end the year last year.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Again, it's a question of what happened last year
Why would someone want to trade for him at the deadline considering how he fell apart the last two months of last season? Why not wait and take the plunge a month later?
Because teams get desparate
Erik Bedard – didnt pitch much of anything in 2010 (11 combined innings for the M’s A and AAA teams). Yet he landed the M’s Trayvon Robinson at the deadline.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
However...
Erik Bedard isn’t on the cusp of age-related retirement; Colon is past that. Bedard’s health may be an issue, but not his stamina.
But if he pitches well all first half. I don't see why teams would suddenly say
He fell off a cliff at the end of 2011 oh no! Yet would ignore Bedard’s past recent performance… those are incongruent.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
cheap
Colon will cost very little money wise. A team picking him up will not have to give up a big prospect. I would be happy having Colon start 15 games, allowing for other pitchers to get healthy (Anderson, Braden) and keep the young guns in the minors. If the A’s get a high ceiling, high risk A-ball kid in return, great. Likely the team getting Colon, will love the idea of them not having to pay much money and they do not have to give up a top prospect. If the Red Sox were going to give up two prospects for Harden and all his injury history, then the A’s can get one such prospect for Colon.
Try flipping him and you'll see.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
A man could throw his back out, trying to flip him.:)
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
heh!
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jan 15, 2012 7:36 PM PST up reply actions
2 million
On MLB.com the the write up says that the deal is around 2 million.
If so that is a movable number come June or July!
Only $1M for a pitcher down the stretch?
Seems like chump change for many contending teams.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
With a full 40-man, who's spot does Colon take?
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
I thought you had to do that somewhere right around ST
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 15, 2012 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah the more I think about it the mroe that sounds right.
Which also explains why there were taken off the 60-man at the end of the year. Though, if I recall correctly wasn’t Devine on it all offseason long?
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Good move, possible trade bait.
But one of the most un-athletic looking to wear Athletics across the front of his jersey.
Off Topic- Screw ESPN they have the Moneyball movie on their ESPN shop listed under the giants and not the A’s.
Matt Stairs?
He’d be on that list too I think.
That is pretty b.s. re: ESPN.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Don't forget, Sabey-Sabester does have an off-camera appearance
I love AN and I will damn f@$king well fight to stay here -- Kyli
by Englishmajor on Jan 15, 2012 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
Well, Royce Clayton is in the cast.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Nice write up! Is there any reason not to be in favor of this?
I can’t think of one.
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
Thanks man.
I think this one is pretty non-controversial.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
BTW Feel free to tell me to calm down whenever you want
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 15, 2012 3:54 PM PST up reply actions
Done!
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 15, 2012 7:22 PM PST up reply actions
Somewhat OT: Gio signed a 5 year $42M deal with 2 options for a total of $65M
Great deal for both sides IMO
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
The Nats got a bargain
And Gio can officially say “I’m rich bitch!!!!!”
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Yes
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 15, 2012 7:22 PM PST up reply actions
Seems perfectly acceptable
aShould provide some innings to fill out the rotation and provide cover for the youngsters so that they aren’t forced into a big league spot before they are ready. Also not enough of a commitment that there is any danger of blocking any of the A’s pitching prospects should they dominate in AAA.
On a similar note, should the A’s consider going after Francisco Cordero as a closer? He’s been kind of left out of the closer carousel and could probably be signed on a one year deal somewhere in the $4M-6M range. The A’s already have a lot of money committed to the bullpen with Balfour and Fuentes but so long as it doesn’t affect the budget for acquiring amateur talent I wouldn’t mind the A’s bringing in Cordero to see if they could flip him at the deadline.
I don't see why we dont just make Balfour closer and flip him?
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
And then have FDLS close?
At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was an idiot.
by the_rozeboom on Jan 15, 2012 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
How much would Balfour's stock gain by saving a few games?
I think Balfour’s value as a solid bullpen arm has already been established over the last few years, and I think that any team that puts extra emphasis on “closer experience” would still view Balfour as more of a set up man, even if he managed a few saves in April and May.
So I guess I feel like Balfour’s value will be roughly equal whether the A’s use him in the 8th or the 9th, but Cordero has enough experience closing games that a desperate team who still worries about having a guy who can handle the mental aspect of closing would be more likely to trade for a guy like Cordero.
Besides why not have two experienced bullpen arms to deal at the deadline instead of one?
We had a slew last of experienced bullpen arms last year to deal but didn't
Bullpen arms don’t fetch much. Balfour might gain a little extra value from being perceived as a closer and used as a set-up man (Kerry Wood going from Cleveland to New York comes to mind, or Brian Fuentes’ Angels to Minnesota trade) Its minimal extra value but something. Middle-relief set up guys just dont fetch much of anything.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Anything to keep Parker down
They really scared me with that “he’ll compete for a job out of spring training” bullshit.
Same.
I don’t mind if someone is truly ready, but with guys where injuries or age/experience suggest that a 1/2 season in AAA wouldn’t hurt then it’s just self-destructive to trade a year of service time in a non-contending season for…what? And with both Parker and Peacock, it seems like starting at AAA would make more sense. Go with:
McCarthy
Colon
Moscoso
Milone
Outman —> Braden
and let others like T. Ross compete for a spot.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I dunno....
I think there is intrinsic value in a player “feeling” as though he has the opportunity to make the show based on nothing more than his performance. To me, it’s better that players always feel that if their talent rates the Show, then the A’s will certainly send them up.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
I agree, but when there are clear reasons it makes sense anyway to wait a couple months,
such as “you’re coming off surgery” or “you’ve barely pitched in AAA” or “you’re only 20” then I think it’s just common sense to “err” in that direction. I think Milone should get a spot if he looks ready, because he’s 25 and probably as ready as he’ll ever be. To me, Peacock is the most borderline but I say “why not let him light it up for 2 months at AAA and then come up?”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well said
I don’t like service time games. If a guy is truly ready, I’m all for bringing him up even if it’s a noncompetitive season. Parker just had a medium AA season after TJ and hasn’t played in AAA. Rushing a guy when you don’t expect to be good (I do think this squad will approach .500, but they’re unlikely to be truly competitive even if there is a 5th playoff spot) is silly.
We need to remember that the goal is to be competitive in 2015
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Ha ha, you're so dyslexic
But yes, the goal is to be competitive in 2051.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Now you're just being ridiculous.
5201.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
"In the year... 8585..."
" We thought the team, just might be alive"
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Well, I AM old! :)
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
It Helps
I’m not overly excited about this, but Colon is a veteran pitcher who adds experience to the staff as well as flexibility so that we don’t have to push young guys like Peacock or Parker.
Needless to say, the point you make about rotation depth is certainly a valid one. McCarthy may have pitched well last year, but the truth is he was an injury-prone pitcher for the White Sox and Rangers and never amounted to anything. Before last year, most people hadn’t even heard of Moscoso and Outman is also injury-prone and a guy who doesn’t have experience as a full-time starter in the majors.
for those of you trying to guess the 2012 A's rotation, cross Outman and Moscoso off
They’ve reportedly been traded to the Rockies for OF Seth Smith


























