Long Lew Wolff Interview at newballpark.org
by vertig0 on Aug 5, 2011 12:22 AM PDT
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Print[vertig0/Marine Layer's has followed the A's ballpark situation for the last 6 years, in great detail. If you want the latest on the stadium situation in all aspects, his site is the best, and this interview is especially awesome - Zonis]
Last week I did a two-hour interview with Lew Wolff, similar to the interviews Blez has conducted in the past. Since my blog is all about the team's continuing quest for a ballpark, the interview focuses mostly on stadium issues, baseball's internal politics, the process, and economics. The transcript of the interview has been split up into five parts, with the first part posted on Monday. The final part is now up. If you're interested in the subject matter, check it out.
- Part 1 – History of working in Oakland, 980 Park site, Process
- Part 2 – Oakland now and what it takes, Earthquakes, contraction
- Part 3 – Territorial rights, Giants’ motives, Dodgers/Mets, Coliseum
- Part 4 – Tarps, discounts, player development, CBA, payroll, T-rights again
- Part 5 – Redevelopment, Target Field, Cisco Field, Keith Wolff, museum and history
When possible, editor's notes have been added.
If you want a recap, Field of Schemes has a good one.
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And it was fantastic from start to finish, rec'd
I hope members of the AN community will donate to the paypal account in the top right corner of your page. So many members here have enjoyed the free, high quality content you’ve provided over the years; a donation to your site would be a great gesture in return.
The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.
by notsellingjeans on Aug 5, 2011 12:27 AM PDT reply actions 9 recs
Done, and turn this green!
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Aug 5, 2011 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Great Job M.L.
Wish there was a date for the new scoreboards. Wonder if they plan just replacing diamond vision or the between decks ones also to like all other stadiums have now.
The part that bothers me
aside from the stuff about how is only gonna build a minor league bare-minimum stadium for the Earthquakes, is the stuff about not wanting to lose “30 million a year like the Haas family.”
How do you define/measure losing money? There are a lot of accounting tricks that sports teams use to create paper losses and turn real profits into paper losses… stuff like expensing the purchase price of the team and the roster depreciation deduction:
Knock out the $25.1 million RDA — a paper loss, remember — and add the $9.1 million in tax savings. Suddenly, that $27.6 million loss becomes a $6.6 million profit.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
We really have no choice but to take him at his word
Since it’s extremely unlikely the A’s or any MLB team would open its books.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Aug 5, 2011 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
or we can assume that all owners would fudge the representation of the numbers to their advantage
"I wouldn't honestly be surprised if there was a Derek-Jeter’s-d**k-shaped Popsicle concession at Yankee Stadium."- emperor nobody
by Gaijin_Suketto on Aug 5, 2011 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
In that case, it all evens out!
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Aug 5, 2011 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
The latter does not imply the former.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
The latter statement speaks for itself
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Aug 5, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
you always have a choice.
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
I pretty much agree with you about the tricks but it doesn't bother me. I just ignore it since
all real estate developers talk like that.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 5, 2011 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I believe what he says
I work in banking and I can tell you that a lot of sports franchises lose money. It is kind of standard operating procedure. It takes continual investment to stay afloat and most of the ownership just hopes the franchise appreciates in value so they can get some sort of return.
Knowing what I know about the A’s, I would be shocked if they were generating cash for the owners rather than consuming it.
FWIW Forbes thinks the Athletics' Operating Income was +$23.2 M in 2010
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 5, 2011 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
See that is more like what the real figure is in my opinion
the article states that operating income estimate is "Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization. "
So that’s what forbes thinks the A’s really make before these paper loss devices like RDA and depreciating the purchase price kick in to eliminate tax liability.
That is $23 million that should be getting put back into the team!
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Aug 5, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
interest
I’m not sure how interest is a “paper loss device”. I understand the reasoning for leaving it out of the operating income figure, but it’s still a real expense the A’s ownership group has to pay. I would guess they pay ~$5 million a year in interest.
I would not be surprised if they pay no income tax, though. At least not until the team is sold.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Some accounting tricks were available
Whether they actually lost $30 million or lost it on paper, MLB and the other owners were not happy about the way Haas ran the team compared to other teams. There’s a gentlemen’s agreement about how all teams should compete relative to their revenue, and while it’s extremely unfair from a “level playing field” standpoint it’s considered somewhat fair in the sort of warped free market baseball has. Also, during the Haas era, there was no revenue sharing.
And regrettably, that unspoken "gentleman's agreement" is a big part of why Mark Cuban hasn't gotten a team.
Everyone knows that he would be willing to go into the red in order to win. He did it with the Mavs and it won him a title.
The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.
by notsellingjeans on Aug 5, 2011 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Claiming depreciation expense on properties
that don’t actually lose value in real life is hardly novel. Companies routinely depreciate real estate all the time. Recently that might actually be realistic, but it was done all through the real estate boom, too.
You do it because tax law not only allows it, but essentially requires it.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
OK but teams do it with players too
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 5, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Right, I just had to laugh at that article's shocked -- shocked! --
reaction that the team was claiming depreciation expense on something that doesn’t actually lose value in real life, as if that weren’t standard operating procedure in virtually every business.
Anyway, besides that, the question of whether the players are getting better or worse is totally separate from roster depreciation. What they’re depreciating is the purchase price of the team, and the RDA rule lets them do that at an accelerated rate. It’s the same idea as if you buy someone’s business, allocate part of the price to physical assets and call the rest of it “goodwill” to be amortized. It’s quantitatively a better deal but not qualitatively different.
What I want to know is how they shelter the gain when they sell the team. If you’ve depreciated away your purchase price you have no basis left so the entire proceeds ought to be taxable. Do they find a way around that? Are they actually avoiding tax or just deferring it to the sale?
Here is a better explanation of the RDA, by the way. It appears to be a source for that silly Deadspin article.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I'm not shocked but I would be upset
if Lew is including paper losses like this in his statements where he says he’s just lighting piles of money on fire.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Aug 5, 2011 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not shocked
Just appalled at how many people actually earn a living in the area of finances, moving numbers from left to right, doing absolutely nothing productive whatsoever, taking their cut from every dollar, yen and euro actually earned.
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
Heh. People like me and WaddellCanseco.
I generally move numbers from right to left, though.
Also, if we only took our cut from dollars earned, we’d be in trouble. The smart number cruncher takes his cut from dollars lost as well!
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Yeah baby!
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 5, 2011 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions
This comment makes me reflect on a very old friend of mine....
When we were young his mother insisted that he go into accounting as a career field. I’ve never forgotten what he told me when he refused. “Dude, do you even know how many Jewish accountants are in Federal prison?”
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
of course that bothers you, the HAAS family won a world freaking series
you’ll notice now a lot of Pro San Jose folks starting to try to sale us a bill of goods that even the best days in Oakland were’nt really that great.
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
to be fair
i’m in the pro- san jose camp
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Aug 5, 2011 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
i dont care
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
Well in the Haas family case
They really were hemorrhaging money. It’s why they sold the team in the first place.
If Lew Wolff is reading this...
One unasked question then a comment. The unasked question: If the Raiders were to move to Santa Clara and share a stadium with the 49ers, how would that impact the notion of building a new ballpark on the (exact) site of the current one (with possibly, Candlestick used for a year while the construction was going on, assuming the Giants wouldn’t let the A’s use AT&T Park).
The comment: Lew talks a lot about a fan-friendly stadium. Then why is Aramark still running the concessions? There is no healthy food sold at the Coliseum these days except for a single fruit stand. The idea that Giants fans go to Ikea and A’s fans go to Wal-Mart is ridiculous. People in Berkeley and Oakland are A’s fans, for Crissake. I know there’s nothing to be done right now, but please, Lew, make things better next year.
For a long time I resisted the idea of a San Jose stadium for purely personal reasons: it’s too far to travel on a regular basis. But I want the A’s to stay in the area, and I want them to win, so I’ve come ‘round. At this point, it’s too late in the game for Oakland (unless the above scenario comes to pass) so I do think it’s time to get it done.
by richwol1 on Aug 5, 2011 10:21 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I believe the answer to your comments is that the A's don't have a say in running the concessions
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Aug 5, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Of course they do
They may not make the final decisions, but of course they have a say.
Lew Wolff talks about having a good experience at the Coliseum, but then can’t even say that people are complaining about the shitty disgusting food,, the crappy help and the lack of decent choices? Of course the A’s can apply pressure even if they don’t sign the contracts themselves.
From the interview I gathered that if Wolff puts his money into it the Coli authority will let him have free reign to an extent.
by Billy Frijoles on Aug 5, 2011 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
re: the fixing leaks, scoreboard, etc., they kinda just let him do what he wants.
by Billy Frijoles on Aug 5, 2011 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not happy that the Coliseum is in a state of disrepair
but I have to admit to feeling there’s a certain amount of poetic justice in a wealthy real estate developer having problems getting his landlord to do basic maintenance on his rental unit.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Aug 5, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
If only the A's weren't the subject of the poem
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Aug 5, 2011 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
The 49ers-Raiders
That stadium fiasco is going to drag this committee decision on even longer than it should be. If the 49ers do the improbable and actually break ground on a new stadium in Santa Clara, and then the NFL does what seems like the impossible and get both teams to share said stadium, Oakland will lobby aggressively to keep the A’s. And I can’t say I’ll blame them.
As much as Lew talks about conditions changing in Oakland detrimental to them keeping the A’s from a corporate standpoint, geographically, people are going to look at the population centers and where the major bay area teams are playing and wonder why only one team is playing in the East Bay if the A’s and Raiders plan to move out of the Coliseum to the South Bay.
No offense meant by this
but I don’t go to the ballpark for health food. :)
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
No you don't
But some of us are season ticket-holders or go on a regular basis and there are NO decent choices unless you want to eat crap. I have no interest in eliminating the crap. But c’mon, there’s NOTHING.
yes, I have a 22 game pack and usually bring food if I can
I’m vegetarian, so there’s not much in most ballparks. The A’s have garlic fries, nachos, and the veggie dogs they have at one stand. Frankly that’s not bad from my perspective.
But at the last giants game I went to at AT&T they had a stand that had pizza, fried zucchini, and mozz sticks. Not health food, but it was nice to have some choices there. I can pretty much eat mozz sticks anytime anywhere.
Last game I went to on the weekend so many of the stands were closed. Did not like missing an inning to get nachos. I get it on the weekday games but keep the stands open on the weekends!
Also yeah aramark blows. They are the worst; somehow they are even slower and the food is worse and more expensive at the warriors games. It is really mindblowing.
I feel like if they added just one “meal” type of food for vegetarians, like a veggie burrito or something, I would be pretty good with the A’s food choices. But they are definitely totally lacking in any creativity and could really step it up. Cheese stix plz.
by Billy Frijoles on Aug 5, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
AT&T has gluten free hot dogs
I had to buy one just because I’ve never seen such a thing at a ballpark.
"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King
oh the season ticket holder thing again? sigh.
I would assume that you as a season ticket holder would know that you can bring your own health food if you want, one of the only venues that allows such freedoms.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
I do love that about the coli...
I almost always bring my own snacks….because most of the food choices are so fattening and I am always dieting. The main thing I buy at the coli is coffee.
I have never been to any other stadium with such leniency about bringing food in. The A’s lose a lot of revenue from that policy so I consider it a great perk.
OMG THANKS AGAIN LEW #shakesfist
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
by mikev on Aug 5, 2011 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
At&T park lets you bring in your own food too. If I go there I always at least bring a bottled water.
by Billy Frijoles on Aug 5, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I go to a Giants game a couple of times each season...
and I have to admit that I didn’t realize that they allow food. Next time I will bring some food with me. :-)
I don't go to any Giants games each season
because, well…
Fuck the Giants.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
by mikev on Aug 5, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 13 recs
yeah, the only games I have been to recently were free tix
Although because I was born in pittsburgh and went to college there I am a lifelong pirates fan, so I might pay for some tix and go to a game next week, to cheer on the buccos.
by Billy Frijoles on Aug 5, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
okay
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Aug 5, 2011 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I like this guy!!!
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
This.
Your 2011 Athletics:
You can't spell Athletics without an "E".
by MrMoneyBaller on Aug 5, 2011 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Love AT&T PARK
I think the Giants should move to Fresno and let the A’s have the park.
It's nice but it's also overrated
As far as the new parks go it’s actually only so/so. Concourses are small, not enough bathrooms, seats are further from the action than many of the other new parks. It gets a pass from some people because it’s got the Bay there, but a polluted slough does nothing to enhance a fan’s game day experience.
...and it's ten years old already.
Hardly new anymore.
by LoneStranger on Aug 9, 2011 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
mikev
That’s why I said “People who go regularly.” If you only go a couple of times, you can do the ballpark food thing. But if you go regularly, then it gets really nauseating.
I bring my own food.
Then I don't understand the complaint.
You don’t want to eat the food they have, and they let you bring your own — not only keeping you healthier, but likely saving you money. The A’s are doing you a favor!
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
I get his point
I’d rather have ballpark food when I go to a game and I don’t mind spending a little extra for it or eating a little less healthy, but the options at the Coliseum are pretty basic and very subpar. If you go to a lot of games, great, but the food is not very appealing.
Now Raley Field, that’s a place with some kickass food options.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Most parks have kickass options
Which is why they can get away with ensuring people buy food at the park. AT&T Park - I mean, really, if you’re going to go, why bring food in?
Beyond that, the food situation (along with the crappy Aramark service) lessens the ballpark experience for no good reason.
Because the prices are absolutely ridiculous?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
exactly
a lot of season ticket holders are older too and probably need to watch their cholesterol and blood pressure
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
If they have a blood pressure problem,
they shouldn’t be watching the A’s this season.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
They let you bring whatever food you want into the stadium
With all the great cheap, healthy dining options in the bay area, that has to be preferable to $12 falafel.
Candlestick is a non starter
Stadium is incapable of being converted back to baseball anymore now that the mechanisms that used to move the bleachers in right field have all seized up and died. The city estimated it would cost several million dollars to even attempt to repair them and that’s assuming they could find parts for 1970’s vintage stadium equipment. Candlestick for all intents is no longer a multipurpose venue but is a football only stadium.
Fantastic Interview
Generally, I’m not a fan of reading really long papers (unfortunate, because i’m a teacher), but this was a great read.
To be honest, Wolff isn’t really a bad guy. I mean, there are a lot of barriers, particularly with the stadium plan. Makes me blame Selig even more, and hate the committee even more.
Is Victory Court really the best option in Oakland?
It's not a question of whether Wolff is a "bad guy" or not. The question is whether he's a
competent owner. So far I see very little evidence that he is.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 5, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fisher's the billionaire
..and the answer is given above: MLB is not interested in team owners spending their own money and taking a loss to put a better team on the field.
And, frankly, why should we expect them to?
Why do so many people think that MLB owners have a civic responsibility or moral obligation to pour their personal fortunes into their teams, profits be damned? I love my local tavern, but I don’t expect the owners to keep it open if they aren’t turning a profit.
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Aug 5, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
That is a good point but it is slightly different
MLB shouldn’t force them one way or the other. It should be their prerogative.
If they are going extremely to one side (i.e. risking bankruptcy to win a championship) or the other (fielding a AAA team and cashing the rev share checks) then I understand. But other than that, let owners run the teams how they want.
MLB is like some giant albatross on everyone’s back, selig has to has have his nose in every freakin thing. it gets so annoying.
by Billy Frijoles on Aug 5, 2011 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
If MLB let the owners run the teams how they wanted
Both the A’s (New Orleans, Denver) and the Giants (Tampa) would have left a long time ago.
Selig’s fiddling while the A’s burn is frustrating. I’ve even advanced the theory on ML’s site that no decision is ever coming and that Selig’s hoping for a solution to drop out of the sky. But some oversight is necessary, even if it’s a puppet of the owners. What’s good for the Steinbrenners isn’t always good for the Fishers. Even if MLB could care less about their customers and employees, they have to keep some order in the lodge, or government will do it for them.
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Aug 5, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
well, yes, some oversight.
Obviously the NBA has a salary cap + luxury tax, so there is a built in barrier/penalty. The NFL has a hard cap. But that applies to ALL teams equally. I am fine with that kind of oversight.
From what I gather from the other comments, essentially, the A’s have a $75/80M cap, but the yankees have a $300M cap (essentially none at all), which is pretty unfair. Yes, they are not written down but apparently are enforced in a manner of speaking. And I think that’s wrong. If the A’s owner wanted to drop $100M next year and go for it, let him do it!
by Billy Frijoles on Aug 5, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
By "solution falling out of the sky"
I’m hoping, if all else fails, that Sandy Alderson is the next commissioner of baseball and he immediately undos the T-rights as his first act.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Aug 5, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
That's a nice thought
But the pessimist in me says that Selig is hoping some unknown gazillionaire (Burkle?) overpays to buy the A’s (netting Wolff and his partners about $100 million on their investment) and moves them to some municipality that is less resistant to a shiny new ballpark.
As is often the case with the A’s . . . I hope I’m wrong.
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Aug 5, 2011 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
And when the Neukom and the Giants start to complain he just says
“Hey look; fuck you.”
by LoneStranger on Aug 9, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
On the other hand
Your tavern owner doesn’t claim his establishment as some sort of civic institution either. Baseball owners are notorious for claiming that fans aren’t supporting the team by coming to the ballpark - and that, on some level, it’s the fan’s civic responsibility as fans to support the team. A baseball team falls somewhere between a private enterprise and a public trust, something a tavern does not.
However, I wouldn’t expect a team owner to consistently lose money to support a team if he doesn’t want to. The real issue is not that owners should be expected to put their own money into making the teams better, but that MLB specifically does not want the owners to do so even if they wish.
by richwol1 on Aug 5, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've never heard/read about A's ownership say anything about people's "civic responsibility"
I’ve heard them say, in essence, “people don’t show up because our park sucks, and we can’t afford better players because people don’t show up.” But I’ve never heard them specifically say the customers owe it to the community to come to the game, per se. If you’ve got links/articles that say that specifically, can you please post them?
I did read about the Maloofs hinting at that sort of thing, which I didn’t like, because, blaming your customers for your sub-standard product? Ew.
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Aug 5, 2011 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
It's complicated by the franchise system
European soccer is about to institute a Financial Fair Play system that will penalize teams whose owners put huge amounts of cash into salaries and player acquisitions, beyond what the club’s revenues will actually support. But European football clubs don’t own any franchising rights: if someone buys Leyton Orient or Milwall thinking that London could support another big-time team, and they want to invest the money to do that, then they’re free to give it a shot. London doesn’t belong to Arsenal or Tottenham or QPR. New York, on the other hand, belongs to the Yankees and Mets, and those two teams have the exclusive right to the massive revenue stream created by the NYC metro area, no matter how many more major-league teams that region could support.
So it’s a bit of a problem to set up a system with massive structural imbalances, and then tell owners they’re not supposed to redress those imbalances with their own money. Revenue sharing helps somewhat, but it seems to be a drop in the bucket given how imbalanced the franchise areas are.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Aug 5, 2011 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
There aren't 30 taverns in the world, with 500 million people all rooting for their tavern to win.
Owning a baseball team is not owning a Burger King, despite what Buddy Kane thinks.
by Leopold Bloom on Aug 5, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know who Buddy Kane is, except for the real estate king in 'American Beauty'.
But people that are rich enough to own baseball teams become that way by not owning things that lose money.
The only thing a lot of people know about the A’s is the book about them winning games while spending less money than everyone else.
We may view them as pristine American institutions, and the teams don’t discourage that. But the owners treat them more like Burger King than museums.
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Aug 5, 2011 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions
then why buy the team????????
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
I can point to a laundry list of teams with new parks built on public dime
that are not doing well if you beleive the owners. Why does anyone want to buy a team. This is basically a special club where the rich get richer and Selig picks the members.
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
Because it's a more fun place to sink your money
than a chemical plant or textile factory?
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Exactly.
Lew Wolff will never make the front of the New York Times because he owns a bunch of hotels. But if the A’s win the World Series? Well, maybe. It’s ego-boosting. He and the Fishers are just only willing to the hip for so much.
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Aug 5, 2011 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
It's a revenue thing
Teams (especially) poor ones aren’t supposed to spend more than 50% of what they take in on payroll. MLB doesn’t have an enshrined salary cap, but this guideline effectively acts as one. Richer teams like the Phillies and Tigers can dig into their own pockets for payroll because they have the future revenue, thanks in large part to new ballparks, to support it.
Wolff is not a billionaire. His ownership partner, John Fisher, is.
Poor? Really?
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
Yes, poor
If your team makes $150-160 million per year including a welfare handout, and the top teams make $300-400 million, then guess what? Your team is relatively poor. You’ve been reading about this for years. How can you not get this?
You idiot
poor is not being able to feed your damn kids.
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
by Jessse on Aug 6, 2011 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I looked it up for you, how do you get this.... Tell these rich guys to shut the hell up.
poor
/pʊər/ Show Spelled [poor] Show IPA adjective, -er, -est, noun
adjective
1.
having little or no money, goods, or other means of support: a poor family living on welfare.
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
Yes, thank you for providing the dictionary definition of "poor"
Now please notice there are different ways of talking about poor relative to other things.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Are you on a bender?
Might want to ease off the keyboard there, pal.
i've gone too far. i apologize. you're obviously not an idiot
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
THANK YOU!!!!!!!
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
At least from a geographic location
And public and private transit perspective, certainly. Oakland is the center of the bay area on both counts.
by OaklandSi on Aug 5, 2011 11:10 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The best location would be blowing up the current Coliseum
There’s already freeway, BART, and train access.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
But a pretty crappy surrounding neighborhood....mostly industrial as far as I remember
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Aug 5, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
But if there were no raiders you could really go all out with the space. It's an open canvas waiting to be painted.
Neighborhood to the north and south is industrial. East is residential. West is basically the bay.
by Billy Frijoles on Aug 5, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
well I should say west there are some motels, fast food shops, etc. so nothing really until the bay.
The potential is that you have a lot of space to build an awesome baseball only facility. Could have a built-in museum, etc. as Wolff said would not be possible in SJ.
by Billy Frijoles on Aug 5, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I would hope that, pending the Raiders and 49ers stadium..
…that this would be a real alternative, i.e. building on the current site.
However, I don’t think that’s the hold-up. Lew Wolff says plainly in the interview that the A’s will not pay the Giants for the territory, and it’s pretty obvious that Selig doesn’t want to see it come to a vote - it’s possible the A’s don’t have the votes to get the territory anyway. So based on that, MLB is at an impasse if Neukom is demanding compensation.
I do like how with each interview Lew becomes less conservative about calling out the Giants for what they are doing.
by Billy Frijoles on Aug 5, 2011 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd like to see Lew become more open about how he plans to finance a new park with each interview
"I just saw the list of attendees (at AN Day). But I’m still planning to come."- Nico
by Gaijin_Suketto on Aug 5, 2011 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
if it is in SJ he could just do a mortgage + naming rights, no?
by Billy Frijoles on Aug 5, 2011 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
The plan appears to be "get a loan on Fisher's collateral"
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Aug 5, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Problem is
The neighborhood around it is still crap. That’s the Coliseum’s biggest failing beyond the whole crappy design aspect, it’s a crap destination as well.
I didn't think I would read the whole thing
But I ended up doing exactly like that. Great interview, and it helps sharpen the image of what we’re looking at. I want to feel a little more hopeful, but I feel like that would just be wishful thinking.
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
The two things that struck me in the interview.
(1) Somewhere in there Lew says something about getting draft picks for free agents if they go away. Although it doesn’t prove anything, this does suggest Lew expects the scheme to be in place in the new CBA, and earlier in the interview he makes it clear he’s in the loop on the CBA discussions. That combined with the general marketplace around the trade deadline with regard to valuing veterans makes me now think that the draft pick scheme will at least be grandfathered in for the current crop.
(2) In one of the comments someone mentioned a vision of gondolas and water-taxis ferrying fans down the estuary to the stadium. I’m not sure how practical that would be, but even if it’s just a silly gimmick for people who don’t want to do the five-minute walk from a parking lot north of the freeway, I still think that would be very cool. Especially if the real gondolas come down. It would give the TV cameras something cute to show pictures of besides showing the Golden Gate Bridge all the time.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
They'd have to learn how to serenade "Celebration"
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Aug 5, 2011 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Commission a romantic rendition of it by the London Symphony Orchestra.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Aug 5, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Why not the Oakland Symphony?
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Aug 5, 2011 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Mills College has a long and storied history
of renowned composers. Most notably Darius Milhaud, but also Henry Cowell, Lou Harrison, John Cage, Harry Partch, Luciano Berio, Dave Brubeck, Steve Reich, Fred Frith, and Elinor Armer all put in time at Mills.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
It now appears that will probably happen, but
there is nothing written in the current CBA that makes it so.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I understand Wolff's desire to be "an MLB guy" and put the institution first
but there’s only so long you can do that when you’re being ignored. If I were Wolff, two years with no answer would tell me that it’s time to reassess my position on lobbying the other owners, rocking the boat and being patient.
Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!
by UrgentMirth on Aug 5, 2011 1:19 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
That was my reaction as well.
Sure, it might win over a few people to play the nice guy, but at a certain point, Wolff appears to be playing the game too passively. If the Giants are being assholes, then be one right back. In any event, that will please your fans, most of whom have a fuck the giants attitude.
And, hell yes, you better start lobbying the owners.
What was interesting to me is that all this time, the presumption has been (at least by me and from other posts that I’ve seen) that the committee’s decision was being delayed as they figured out what to do with the territorial rights issue. Based on Lew’s answers, it’s been more a matter of looking at other stadium options (some of which might make the territorial rights issue a moot point).
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Aug 5, 2011 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Know the Gate Keeper
The owners have been in lock step with Selig as far as I can tell. They believe he’s played them fair and hasn’t sold anyone out.
You satisfy Selig – who always tries to make the owners happy instead of shoving it down their throats – you’ll get plenty of support from the other owners. Consider that he’s been fairly immune to public opinion or grumblings from municipalities, you have to play at Selig’s pace to have a voice.
Take the Mets/Dodgers. Selig is letting the Mets play out by selling an ownership stake, even though it looks bad and provided a large dark cloud over the franchise. The ownership is trying to make it work and get it profitable. On the other hand, McCourt has gone all scorched earth and quickly found Selig slamming the door on ownership-friendly TV deals and organizational rigor mortis.
While i believe there is a place and a time to be aggressive w/ the owners, I think the A’s situation is already common knowledge; the window is closed for an assertive campaign. I’m sure the T-rights thing scares a lot of them, and given the economic malaise, they’d feel better not putting a number on it right now.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
What I gathered from this interview (very well done btw)
1) The A’s wil not have a new stadium, or even an indication of where they might be able to build one, any time soon.
2) The A’s will continue to suck, all while I have to listen to Ray talk about ultra mo, dibs and various other food related rants.
Yay!!!!
All I wanted was a Pepsi
The International Draft
I’m not keen on an international draft at all, and I think Wolff is wrong. For one thing, you’re only talking about a handful of players who benefit from rich clubs. Most of the younger players will sign with anyone, as we see with Ynoa.
But the big problem is that an international draft will end the Dominican baseball camps, which not only serve the MLB clubs that pay for them, but ensures that many kids who never reach the big leagues at least get educations. In fact, Dominicans are dead set against an international draft for this very reason. (Maybe certain countries could be excluded).
One thing is clear: when Cuba opens up, a lot of major league ready players will be available. Mark Kurlansky puts the number at a hundred. I doubt it’s that high, but it’s pretty high. There has to be a Cuban draft though.
I agree with the above sentiment about the Raiders possibly leaving.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with building up that neighborhood in and around the current park, and make that a mini-hub of shopping centers, schools, the current stadium etc. Its not like its even surrounded by housing. If the Raiders left for Santa Clara or LA again, There’s no reason whatsoever that Lew could just tear the current one down and build a new one, along with a bunch of other things.
didn't Wolff say..
that even if he got his stadium in SJ, that Billy would have the same amount of payroll to play with?
I don’t see a significant difference using that model. Sure, FA’s would be more attracted to a newer ball park. But if the team won’t spend … it could take ten years to payoff that park. We’d be sucky till 2025 playing around with Wolff.
I would prefer a better plan that the one Wolff has gone public with.
" Sleepy Floyd is Superman!!!"
Where did he say that?
If revenue increases, so should their payroll.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Is there going to be a statue out front?
Of Brandon Allen?
"The Most Interesting Man in the World is Brandon Allen" - the World
"Brandon Allen is what I'm talking about" - Willis
by jemilesathletics on Aug 6, 2011 3:46 PM PDT reply actions
No - there will be a stadium behind the statue of Brandon Allen
I don't feel that I'm feeling your feelings, about these feelings that you feel.
by doctorK on Aug 6, 2011 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for your hard work on this series of interviews, vertig0
Also, thanks goes to Wolff for being willing to talk with you about this.
I don't feel that I'm feeling your feelings, about these feelings that you feel.
by doctorK on Aug 6, 2011 8:32 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
second
Marine Layer you don’t get enough credit for the work you do, there are a lot of thankful fans out there that appreciate all your hard work
When we played softball, I’d steal second base, feel guilty and go back.
- Woody Allen
by rhymeswithelephant on Aug 6, 2011 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Despite the frustration
I have hope that this will be resolved, sooner rather than later. I have no inside info to base that on. I just think that eventually circumstances will dictate how MLB should proceed.
When the new ballpark comes to fruition, there will be much feasting and imbibing. I hope to see you all there.
Wow this is great
Hopefully this gets done sooner or later but I have the attitude that if the A’s have to move away from the Bay Area due to the Giants territorial rights issue I will become a full-on Giants hater
With how much the Giants are driving this delay
Can’t see how you’re not a Giants hater already. All A’s fans should be. The way the Giants have been treating the A’s should make true fandom of both teams impossible.
I already can't stand them for their bandwagoner fans since the WS
They would eclipse the Angels as my most hated MLB team if the A’s are forced to move because of this. They haven’t topped the Angels in that regard.
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