Jemile Weeks Should Stop Batting Right Handed
Now, I say this based solely on the numbers, as since I (unfortunately) live in Michigan, and I didn't get around to buying MLB.TV this year, I only see a very limited amount of games. The grand total of PA's I've seen Weeks take is somwhere in the 15-20 range. Anyone (e.g. all of you lucky enough to watch our beloved A's on a daily basis) who has first hand, preferably live eye witness testimony is more than welcome to disagree with me. I'm just going by the numbers here. Please take all of this with a grain of salt, as the sheer number of PA that Weeks has acrued is still withing spitting distance of "Small Sample Size!" chants. Follow me after the jump to my reasoning and the numbers.
| 2011 ML Data | PA | BB Rate | K Rate | Line Drive Rate | OBP | SLG | wOBA |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs R as L | 206 | 5.3% | 14.6% | 22.8% | .359 | .442 | .349 |
| vs L as R | 111 | 3.6% | 11.7% | 19.6% | .284 | .356 | .280 |
| vs R as R | 6 | 0.0% | 33.3% | 0.0% | .333 | .500 | .359 |
Again, smaple sizes aside, it's clear that there is a distinctly different result from each side of plate. The low overall walk rate is alarming, but given that Weeks had an above average walk rate int he minors, I'm not ready to totally overhaul his approach yet. After putting the numbers into such clarity, I can't imagine an argument for him to bat right handed at all. But now the question is this inablilty to swing right handed a recent trend, or something that has surfaced before?
Unfortunately I don't have access to Weeks' Minor League splits from earlier this year, so his 2010 AA data will have to do here. You'll notice a big difference there too.
| 2010 AA Data | PA | BB Rate | K Rate | OBP | SLG |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| vs R | 208 | 10.1% | 16.8% | .341 | .370 |
| vs L | 109 | 6.8% | 8.8% | .312 | .422 |
My apologies for not offering identical statistics in the charts, but only so much data can be found in the world of MiLB and I did the best I could. I had to base my assumptions on that odds that Weeks did infact bat righty vs lefties, and vice versa. That being said, again there is a stark contrast in his numbers. You may see the difference in Slugging%, and not to discount 50 points of slugging, but the biggest difference here is hands down the 30 points of OBP. If you feel that I'm weighing SLG too little, or OBP too much, I suggest this fantastic study here (Note: Must be viewed in Adobe PDF form, also, it's great to see some of those old names again!). After reading that, and then realizing that Weeks will probably be our leadoff hitter for years to come, the OBP vs SLG debate isn't really much of a debate at all. On-base percentage is (obviously and intuitively) more imporatant than slugging at the top of the lineup.
I realize I'm mining from less than 500 PA and I'm missing half of the 2011 data, but to me, this isn't just wild speculation. It's been clearly shown that Weeks is an inferior right handed hitter in almost all aspects. I would love to have the coaches or Bob talk about this sometime. I would have Jemile exclusively hit left handed for the duration of the year, to see what happens.
You can't do much worse than .280 wOBA....
Any and all criticism is welcome, I'm not sports writer by profession, but this something that I felt had to be said, and I haven't heard anyone else voice this concern. MLB stats from FanGraphs, MiLB from ML Splits and Excell to HTML tables compliments of Tableizer!. In addition to (rarely) appearing here in game threads, I run my own blog at http://dwiers.blogspot.com/
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SSS issues aside, what we don't know is how he hits as a lefty against left-handed pitching
It could be (is likely) worse than batting as a righty against left-handed pitching.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Aug 31, 2011 2:49 PM PDT reply actions
I would love to find out
how Weeks fares in LH vs LHP. We haven’t seen what he can do. But we’ve seen what he can’t do batting RH against LHP. I tried to acknowledge the SSS issue several times. 300 PA is still small, but enough to get a decent view of a hitters ability. We won’t know for sure, or at all, until next season, but this is something that I noticed and wanted to look further into. Does he look lost at the plate against LHP? I haven’t seen anywhere near enough to even be that subjective.
Not just athletes, Athletics.
300 PA is enough to get a decent view of a hitter's ability, yes.
But not for splits. The problem with splits is that not only do you have to resolve the lines with small sample sizes cut in half…but you also have to resolve the error bars to the point where they don’t overlap with each other. Sure, in 300 PAs you can say that he’s generally gonna be a .320 wOBA guy, plus or minus, say, .030 points. But for the splits? You have to have an enormous sample size to shrink that .030 error. Something like 1000 PAs against LHP.
The sample size issue basically renders all of this as inconclusive.
But not only that, there’s another problem here:
vs R as L: .349
vs L as R: .280
How do you know if it’s batting right handed that’s causing the problem? What if it’s just left-handed pitchers that he doesn’t like?
We don't know
if it’s the LH pitching giving him fits. But, what we do know is that him hitting right handed just won’t be tolerable if this realy is (as I think it is) a pattern. The end of the post is my suggestion, that he just forgo batting right handed, and try the all lefty approach.
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Wait, why?
Even if these sample sizes were infinitely large, so that these numbers are absolute measurements of his talent level, we still have no idea if the problem is him batting right handed, or just left-handed pitchers in general. You have to isolate them. To really conclude this, you’d have to have this:
vs R as R
vs L as R
In this case, the only variable is the pitcher handedness, not two variables.
I was constricted
by the data available. If he’s ever batted vs L as R, it hasn’t been recorded, or it has and it’s not publicly posted. I posted his 6 PA of vs R as R but that’s hardly worth noting. And yes, I know I’m dealing with 2 variables here, but when we can (somewhat) conclusively say that he either:
A. Hits LHP poorly as a Righty hitter
or
B. Just plainly hiits as a righty poorly
One of those is correct. Why not eliminate one of the situations completely? Why not stop the RH hitting?
Have any of the coaches or reporters mentioned this at all? I’m a NRAF, and I can only follow so many beat writers on twitter to get a handle of the team.
Not just athletes, Athletics.
Being constricted by the data available isn't an excuse to draw false conclusions.
And no, we can’t somewhat conclusively say that he’s either A or B. There’s actually three options:
A. He hits poorly against LHP
B. He hits poorly while batting RH
C. He does not hit poorly against LHP, and he does not hit poorly batting RH. This is all a sample size-infused mirage.
I definitely lean heavily towards option C.
So what you're saying is that you think he's going to improve by changing the way he's hit agianst LHP his entire life.
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The results
have been the same batting right handed since AA last year. Poor. At what point does the approach need changing? I’m not recommending a swing change, adding a timing hitch or changing the location of his hands. I’m just thinking that why NOT try to bat exclusively left handed. We all see him fail at the dish when facing LHP.
To be clear, I don’t want him to change any of his mechanical approach. We don’t need to reinvent his swing ala Zobrist or Joey Bats. He more than holds his own batting lefty. We need more of that left handed swing from him. Preferably nothing but that lefty swing.
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So you're saying that we should overlook that he OPS'd HIGHER as a right hander last year in AA?
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Aug 31, 2011 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I addressed this
The OBP vs SLG is about a 2:1 ratio overall, for leadoff hitters, the ratio is closer to 3:1. It was all explained in the article I linked
Not just athletes, Athletics.
Every time a switch hitter has large L/R splits
people say he should just ditch batting from the side of the plate from which he struggles. I remember this was a big thing with JT Snow and the Giants once upon a time, and he eventually stopped hitting right handed. Bobby Kielty too, as I recall.
I fail to see the downside
of at least trying for this last month of the season. What is there to lose?
Not just athletes, Athletics.
I didn't say there was
or that your idea was poor. I just said this is a fairly common reaction to a fairly common situation.
this
I don’t think this can be viewed as a simple change in approach. It’s not just a matter of tweaking something. This is a guy who has played baseball his entire life and when he sees a pitcher he is basically always seeing them from the opposite side. It doesn’t seem very likely to me that the transition to non-switchiness would give you better results: to some extent he’d be starting from scratch.
Not to mention that, with the SSS problem, you’d have to wait until he’d had 1000 plate appearances as a lefty hitting left before you could even reliably evaluate your experiment.
FIRE ILIKEIKE
I do appreciate
the rapid responses and comments. Is the only thing inherently wrong here is the SSS? I don’t feel like I overlooked anything in the roots of my arguement. I posted the number clearly to show that he is a lesser hitter from the right side. Thusly, I suggested that he abandon switch hitting in favor of a purely lefty approach.
Is it just the # of PA hangup, or is there something actually wrong here?
Not just athletes, Athletics.
I think it's what is summed up in dan and my initial comments
We simply don’t have ANY signficant information to know if the problem is batting right-handed or batting against left-handed pitchers. It doesn’t make sense to completely change your approach based on little to no information.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Aug 31, 2011 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Aren't
we obligated to take the best of the available information at hand, and make a reasoned plan going forward? Isn’t that the entire point of keeping track of these baseball events? We know the problem, like you and I both said, its either batting right handed, or hitting against LHP. Why not cut down on the possibilities? If we can absolutely eliminate a scenario that possibly causes the problem, shouldn’t we? Why not be open to the suggestion that maybe, just maybe, he isn’t a switch hitter?
Not just athletes, Athletics.
I'm saying we don't even know enough to know if there is a problem,
especially because I don’t even know which is Weeks’s natural side to begin with. Maybe he’s tried to bat lefty only and it didn’t work. And if he has a problem seeing left-handers from the right side, switching him to the other side isn’t going to help anything.
As Dan said, being constricted by the data available isn’t an excuse to draw false conclusions.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Aug 31, 2011 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Hahaha wow!
Again, fail. Sorry, I’m tired. See below for 2nd embarassing mistaking on this site today. As I type this, all I can hear in my head is this. Hahah unreal
Not just athletes, Athletics.
He's naturally a RH hitter, I recall him saying...
It was the coaching staff at the U of Miami going into his frosh year who wanted to make him a switch hitter, and I’m fairly certain it was the LH side they asked him to learn.
Correct me if that’s wrong, but wouldn’t it be reasonable to think he can still improve since he’s only in his 3rd month as a big leaguer, even if negative splits were apparent on his way up. Also, he should bunt more RH, especially since the LHP fielding would have the awkward throw to 1B. With Weeks flying down the 1B line, that’s how balls get thrown away & he ends up on third without getting the ball out of the infield.
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by RyanFromBonas on Aug 31, 2011 10:50 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The "best available information" in this case
is not the data of his actual at-bats but rather the knowledge of his coaches and others who are actually familiar with his hitting experience and thus can reasonably hypothesize how well he might hit LH against LHP and how much it would cost him to make the change.
Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree
While we're speculationg here
Maybe he’s right eye dominant, and having that closer to the pitcher when batting lefty is what helps him rock RHP. There’s a ton of outside possibilites, I’m just presenting what I think is going on with him. I took an observation and backed it up with the numbers. I guess we’re just running around in a circle debating the merit of 300 MLB PA. And that’s a damn fine arguement. I’ll say that I normally wouldn’t take stock in 300 PA, but combining that with his (still short) history of hitting LHP as a right handed hitter makes me think again. This little post was just an extension of my thoughts.
Not just athletes, Athletics.
This discussion makes me nostalgic for Bobby Kielty.
We went through this with him all the time.
Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree
Ronnie Mac!
I miss his hair!
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by PDXAthleticsfan on Aug 31, 2011 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Aside from all the SSS issues here,
I don’t think I even see a good argument for the already-accumulated-tiny-sample above numbers saying he’s any worse batting R vs. L than L vs. R. Both charts show that he has a far lower K rate batting right handed, and the one from AA shows a higher ISO.
"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang
I've certainly concluded that Kurt Suzuki should stop batting right-handed
Not sure about Weeks, though.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think Sweeney should stop batting
period
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by OptimistPrime on Sep 1, 2011 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Just as when the 5th guy gets up to give a speech at a wedding
here, too, everything has been said already, only not by everyone. I’m that 5th guy and in my defense you really shouldn’t write stuff while I’m asleep.
1. Thanks for writing this. Flawed or not, it’s something that you noticed ant researched a bit and it’s always nice to see that
2. Now let’s get down to business
The numbers you have listed are Weeks’ past performance, also often referred to as observed level of talent. We don’t know how good he is, we only know how well he has performed so far. As you mention that you have done some sabermetric reading, then you know that expecting him to simply continue performing like this (even if his true talent level doesn’t change) is far from best available method. You are not really constricted by the data available, but rather by the data you chose to use.
Before we look at Weeks, I feel it is important that the concept of regression is understood. People often quote a certain number of plate appearances and say that such and such sample size is exactly the player’s true talent level and that his results need not to be regressed to the mean. That is wrong.
The truth is that we always need to regress the numbers to the mean and that we always do it by the same amount (more on that on request). The effects of such regression will be smaller, the bigger the sample of observed results, because the mix will be dominated by the player’s actual performance. Imagine always adding a quart of 70F water. If you only have a small glass to start with, the overall temperature of the new mix will be heavily influenced by the regression to the mean. However if you pour that quart into a swimming pool, the overall temperature will hardly change. The same is with baseball statistics – the effects of the regression are much stronger for the players with fewer observed results, like they are in case of Jemile.
So, let’s look at Weeks now and first make a somewhat more educated guess of how he is expected to perform going forward. We will not be using normal platoon splits for that, as he is a switch hitter. Instead we can make two exercises – in one we will regress each of his splits towards what all batters do, and in the other one towards what switch hitters do. (I calculated how many PA needs to be added from case to case, but since I only have 2010-2011 data in my DB right now, those number fluctuated between 100 and 250. I will stick with 220, as used in The Book. Again if anyone is interested in methodology, let me know).
First here are the average numbers for the league in 2010-2011:

(Thanks for the tableizer tip, unfortunately it doesn’t work in comments).
So, after we regress Weeks performance to the mean, we get the following:

(the table on the left regresses him to the performance of switch hitters, the one on the right to the performance of the hitters with dedicated handedness – they are similar enough not to have to choose one, but instinctively, I would tend towards the first one)
So, this is our educated guess of how Weeks will continue to perform forward, and not simply copying the results of his 100 PA nor what really is abusing misinterpretation of his MiLB stats. Important caveat here is that this is what we expect him to do if he doesn’t change his true talent level, which he of course could do.
Now that we have a baseline of what Weeks is most likely to do if he keeps switch hitting, let’s look what the alternative is. Right, we don’t know a flying fuck about it, which makes regression real easy – we are adding a quart of 70F water into nothing. So, with no observed talent, our best guess is that he will perform on an average level, and as you can see from the first table, it means that he would have a wOBA of .297 batting left-handed against left-handed pitchers, worse than what we can expect him to do if he keeps switch hitting.
So, this is why and how sample size matters. Had he had thousands of PA with such a drastic observed split, our regression would not have affected what we expect from him that much. But he doesn’t and we honestly just don’t know that much about how he hits left-handers. Random distribution (1 SD) of wOBA results after some 100 PA is around 50 points. That means that about one third of the players will have results 50 or more points of wOBA worse or better than their true talent level. That is just a huge swing and even bigger reason to never use such numbers directly to predict the future.
If future is predicted using all available data, it shows that Weeks should perform better by sticking to switch hitting.
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
by elcroata on Sep 1, 2011 7:28 AM PDT reply actions 7 recs
The 5th guy is always way more profound - the problem is by then most everyone is drunk!
Although I guess the 5th guy is, too, which why he may be more profound. Maybe we shouldn’t write anything while you’re sober?
Seriously – great stuff! And can you let us know your sleeping hours, translated into PDT for our convenience. I’ll make sure to limit my posts to snarky one-liners during that time!
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Sep 1, 2011 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Great stuff, as always. Question:
Where do minor league stats come into this? Presumably if we had Weeks’ minor league splits then we could make a more informed judgment.
Thanks
To a point yes. We have lots of his splits from minors. Last year, for example, as OP mentioned is available. And although he goes through some strange gymnastics in weighing OBP and SLG, the fact is that last year Weeks was an equally successful batter from both sides of the plate:
wOBA vs. LHP = .322
wOBA vs. RHP = .324
In fact the only time he was significantly better from left side is his 2009 stint in Stockton, where he posted ridiculous splits for half a season. But then he went on to play in Midland in the same year and actually hit better there from right side. Shows you how volatile such small samples are. His Stockton stint pulls his overall minor league splits in favor of batting left-handed, by 37 points of wOBA.
This is much closer to our estimated level of his true talent split, which is .028 (.335 – .307), than to the current observed level of his talent, which is .069 (.349 – .280). If we had numbers to use for MiLB regression, we would probably come very close to matching the same .028 difference we came up with.
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
Wait. Are you saying everyone's stats should be regressed to around .263/.332/.410,
just more or less depending on available sample size? Because clearly that is not every hitter’s “true talent level,” even if it is the temperature of the whole swimming pool. Or are you saying something else, in which case I might heartily agree?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Reply fail
See below
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
Awesome explanation, ec.
Thanks for taking the time to go through this and answer everyone’s questions.
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Welcome & thanks
Knowing that there are people who are interested in knowing about it makes the effort worthwhile
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
I am not saying that
I am saying that everyone’s stats should be regressed to the average of the group we believe he belongs to.
So, for example, Cahill has a batting line of .100/.100/.100/.200 in all of 10 career ABs. We don’t really have any information on how good a batter he is from those numbers. However, we do have information that he is a pitcher, and we know that this is a valuable information, because pitchers as a group hit very differently than position players.
So instead of regressing his numbers to the average for all MLB hitters, we would regress them to those of an average MLB pitcher.
You can do the same thing “upwards”, too. If you want to regress someone who has already had two back-to-back seasons of at least 500 at bats, for example, you can regress his stats to the average of the players who did the same, thus “weeding out” the ones who failed to stick.
Notice that we did similar for Weeks in one of the examples, too. We regressed him to the average for the group of switch hitters, because we know he is a switch hitter and we see that switch hitters have different splits than batters of dedicated handedness.
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
Gotcha. My question then is,
let’s say Bryce Harper comes up in a couple years and starts his career 3/30. Will you regress towards “all major leaguers” or to “major leaguers who were billed as can’t miss prospects” or to “#1 overall picks with excellent minor league numbers”? Because I wouldn’t think that the best possible projection of Harper’s career line was .263/.332/.410.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Good question
I think you have to ask yourself two questions when you face such a problem:
1) Is an appropriate group definable?
For example, I would say that your first definition isn’t really, because it is open to too much interpretation. Second, depending on how one defines “excellent minor league numbers” is. Or one could just say “#1 overall picks” and then it sure would be.
2) Does such a group have notably different observed level of talent (meaning: results) than the overall group does?
(Then there is also an issue if the group you have defined has enough people in it and how easy it is to find the data for such a group)
But, in general, if you can answer both 1) and 2) with a yes than you should definitely use a subset group to regress to.
Couple more things that are important to understand.
1. By regressing someone with little observed talent towards the mean talent of the group he belongs to, one is not saying: “I think so and so’s real talent is exactly the average of that group”. One is saying, instead: "I don’t know what his real level of talent is because he has played so little. But instead of just assuming that his real talent level is exactly the level at which he played in the little time he had (for example .100 BA for Harper or 1.000 if he starts 10 for 10), our best guess is the combination of his own results and the average of the group we believe he belongs to. It is far from exact, but it is much better than the alternative.
2. This is pure math and on mathematical level it works. It is more accurate to regress than to draw conclusions on small samples. However, regression is only the best way to estimate talent when only using the results to do so. When there simply are very few results to work with, probably the most accurate is the evaluation by professional scouts. So, in the very early stages of a players career, I’d say scouts >> regressed >> observed, and as time passes regressed goes to the top, and as even more time passes, regressed and observed become very similar.
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
Group he is in
Is there a meaningful sample size of switch-hitting Middle Infielders. As a group it seems that MI perform differently than other position players. The regression may be giving him too much of a positive bump.
You are talking about Weeks, I suppose
I don’t have enough numbers to form a meaningful group with such constraints, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t enough data out there (right now, I only have 2010 and 2011 in my DB).
However, if we are talking about the premise of this post, it is rather irrelevant. The question was not what exactly his line will be going forward, but what would be the most likely implications of him not batting switch-handed anymore. And unless you believe that middle-infielders have different platoon skills then other position players (which does seem highly unlikely) then Weeks is getting what you suppose to be “too much of a positive bump” in both regressions (batting switch and exclusively left-handed), meaning that he is still more likely to succeed if he sticks to batting switch.
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
I was thinking the only further refinement to the "group"
is to split it up between SH batters who are naturally left-handed or right-handed, but I don’t think we have the information to make that refinement, unless we go by their throwing arm. But even then, it’d probably be wrong, as there are plenty of players (Rickey!) who bat with one and throw with the other.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Sep 2, 2011 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Right. I guess what I'm getting at is that
maybe at times the best guess for what to regress to is a shrewdly identified subset — the tricky part being, of course, identifying an appropriate subset.
As one example, I would be comfortable regressing Brandon Allen’s slugging higher than towards average because I would be shocked if he slugged only .410 for his career, whether he’s great, good, or ultimately meh. But what exact subset he best belongs to is a very difficult and subjective question.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well, in that case just make a prediction, not a regression
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
I predict I will eat too ice cream this week
This is based on data from the last 3 weeks, and it’s unfortunately a large sample.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

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