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Around SBN: The MMA Hour Is Back

The One Where I Call Attention To A Fun Article, Rather Than Commenting (Much) On The A's

So, I've got nothing. Well, except, did you know that Moneyball comes out in less than a month? Have you seen the trailer? Will Brad-Pitt-As-Billy-Beane become the Robert Pattinson of baseball after the pre-teen girls flood the theaters? That would be so fun. Instead of throwing chairs, he could bite people.

Ahem. So the A's play at 4:05 tonight, since this is a four-game series. Yes, we have to suffer through baseball tomorrow, too. I know everyone says that even the worst baseball is better than no baseball, but I kind of feel like those people weren't forced to recap back-to-back late August 2011 A's games.

So anyway. There was this article on Yahoo last week titled 25 things you didn't know about baseball, and I love it. It gives a lot of attention to FanGraphs.com, but it also has some gems about the A's (or former A's).

The hardest thrower in the game is a middle reliever, and it’s not Aroldis Chapman.

I know! I know! I know! I actually knew this answer, and even though I logically know it's true from the radar gun, I've seen Aroldis Chapman pitch twice in person, and I am absolutely blown away when he pitches. Take Jonathan Broxton, for example. He throws hard, and he looks like he throws hard, and I've seen him in person many times. But Chapman is just different. Yet Chapman isn't the hardest thrower in baseball. Who is? You know this; we had him!

The single best pitch in the major leagues this season is Dan Haren’s cutter.

Go read about it.

Mark Teixeira is a choker.

Well, this year at least. Teixeira owns the second-worst FanGraphs’ "Clutch" score, calculated by comparing his Win Probability Added to a leverage-neutral version of the metric. It’s meant to separate performance in important situations from those who succeed in blowouts, and that’s Teixeira this season. Only Kurt Suzuki’s  minus-2.49 is worst than Teixeira’s minus-2.18

I kind of feel like I instinctively knew that. Anyone smart want to comment on FanGraph's clutch-y metric? Personally, I'd like to comment on Kurt Suzuki's crappy .237 batting average and .681 OPS. And it's not like I have high expectations; I'm an A's fan!

So anyway, there's your article fun for Wednesday. Do you use FanGraphs? How would you evaluate so-called clutch-hitting (and in this case, I'm willing to replace "clutch" with "high-leverage situations")? And is there any metric that can make Suzuki look like he's having a good season? On that note, why is he experiencing such a decline in performance? Is this who he is, or can we hope for better?

See you back at 4 for more A'S BASEBALL!

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Most of that was interesting - I read it the other day

But I also saw someone calling Passan out on a couple points because he kind of struck out on his analysis of BABIP and something to do with Dickey and the knuckleball, I believe.

Here, check out the last two points: http://blogs.thescore.com/mlb/2011/08/26/ten-stray-thoughts-on-a-friday-28/

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Aug 31, 2011 8:41 AM PDT reply actions  

That's a good point...
BABIP actually varies quite a lot from batter to batter. The .300 reference pertains to most pitchers. Expected BABIP uses several variables including a player’s speed score, his line drive rate and contact to come up with a more predictive number. However, any conversation involving Mark Teixeira’s batting average whether only counting balls in play or not, has to start with the amount of times that opposing teams have used the shift against him this year.

The article could also have been titled, “25 things I pulled out of some stats”. However, it kind of makes Suzuki worse, right? What’s his excuse?

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Aug 31, 2011 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

True

Still interesting in general, but some context is needed in certain instances.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Aug 31, 2011 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

As you surely already knew form the BABIP primer on AN ;)

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on Aug 31, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Eh, not really.

Clutchness isn’t predictive. So this clutch thing is more like an extra dose of bad luck that he’s had this year.

by danmerqury on Aug 31, 2011 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ugh, there's an autoplay video box partway down the page

Get it off!

Anyone who hates the Coliseum can kiss my butt. -- Rick Tittle.

by Englishmajor on Aug 31, 2011 10:47 AM PDT reply actions  

Baseball Reference

is the numbers site I visit frequently and routinely.

I refer to Fangraphs occasionally, but I like BR much better.

Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree

by iglew on Aug 31, 2011 11:14 AM PDT reply actions  

of course you would

BB-Ref is formatted like it came off of a very early version of Excel.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Aug 31, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ami Pro

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on Aug 31, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ahhh I loved Ami Pro!

Takes me right back to 1990, elcroata.

The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. —Joe Posnanski 8/29/09

by pam5981 on Aug 31, 2011 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not just that.

It has a different attitude toward stats. Fangraphs is a lot about doing the formula for you and giving you one number. BB-Ref is more about giving you all the numbers and letting you do your own analysis.

I do prefer Fangraphs’ WAR calc to BB-Ref’s, but since I treat WAR as an approximation anyway the difference doesn’t matter much.

BB-Ref is also better than Fangraphs with non-statty data, like transactions, birthplaces, schools, middle names, etc.

Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree

by iglew on Aug 31, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll agree with you on the last part

And BB-Ref’s splits data puts FG to shame. But, still prefer the latter.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Aug 31, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

B-Ref is way more readable, IMO, but the lack of a good offensive rate stat and an ERA estimator bugs me — I like that it puts K/9, BB/9, and HR/9 all next to each other in the pitcher line, so you can kind of get to a sense of FIP in your head, but the at-a-glance value of the player pages is, I think, greatly reduced by not providing these things.

by doctawojo on Aug 31, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Different tools for different purposes.

“At-a-glance value of the player” is the raison d’être of Fangraphs. That’s generally not what I’m looking for.

Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree

by iglew on Aug 31, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is exactly what annoys me most about BB-Ref, formatting notwithstanding
The lack of a good offensive rate stat and an ERA estimator bugs me

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Aug 31, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

OPS+ isn't good enough?
the lack of a good offensive rate stat and an ERA estimator bugs me — I like that it puts K/9, BB/9, and HR/9 all next to each other in the pitcher line

Also, can’t you do the same quick-and-dirty mental ballparking with OBP/SLG for batting production as you describe with peripheral components for pitching?

by Qwerty75 on Aug 31, 2011 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not really, no, not when wOBA / TAv (and wRC+ … and wasn’t there supposed to be a TAv+ at some point?) are available. The misweighting of OBP maybe isn’t a huge deal in a “how well does it correlate to runs” sense, but I just don’t see any excuse for continuing to add two things together and pretend they’re meaningful.

by doctawojo on Sep 1, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

turn it green

it’s annoying as shit.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Aug 31, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now I can't get it out of my head

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 31, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Electric Light Orchestra?

"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Aug 31, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like that Henry's the hardest throwing pitcher in the game still, but I don't see

him succeeding with his K/9 down to 9 something and his BB/9 up to around 7. For him to be good, he’s got to be something like 11:5. This year’s a definite step backwards for him.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 31, 2011 12:40 PM PDT reply actions  

Weren't you high on him before?

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Aug 31, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, I'm probably his biggest fan

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 31, 2011 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Passan gets points for trying

But pitch-type linear weights are highly suspect and ball-in-play data (for the popups tidbits) has all the usual problems, which knocks out about 15 of the 25 factoids he shares. There is still some fun stuff there, though.

Not to self-promote (ok, totally to self-promote), I wrote about Passan’s misuse of the pitch-type data and whether he or Fangraphs was more to blame for the mistakes here http://beaneball.org/1243.html. Passan actually linked to the piece on Twitter, which was pretty awesome of him, though he also told me that us statnerds should stop being so dogmatic. I was perhaps harsher on Passan’s journalistic integrity than I needed to be.

by doctawojo on Aug 31, 2011 1:03 PM PDT reply actions  

Wow, I just lost a lot of respect for Jeff Passan.

Let me go through this item by item.

1. The hardest thrower in the game is a middle reliever, and it’s not Aroldis Chapman.

No. He says it himself in the very next paragraph: Chapman’s velocity is down from last year’s by 2 mph, and even this year, it’s 0.1 mph below Henry’s. So…Chapman throws harder, but he’s just having a down year THIS year. And not only that, but there’s absolutely no difference between 97.9 and 98.0. Guess what the precision error of PITCHf/x velocity is? More than 0.1 mph. 97.9 equals 98.0.

4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 20

You can’t use pitch type linear weights like that! This whole part reads like a guy who just discovered that stat, without knowing how to properly use it. First off, it all depends on the MLBAM pitch classifications. Which are full of errors. Secondly, it includes things like batted ball luck and the defense. Example: Player A hits a fastball on the ground, and it squeezes between the 1Bman and the 2Bman for a hit. Player A, next time up, hits a curveball on the ground, which is fielded. According to pitch type linear weights, he’s awesome at hitting fastballs, and crappy at hitting curveballs. This works both ways, for hitters and pitchers. A pitcher throwing in front of a bad defense will all of a sudden, by this metric, look like his pitches suck.

14. Todd Helton is ripping line drives at a rate we haven’t seen in years.

Nope. The Colorado official scorer is giving him line drives at a rate we haven’t seen in years. BIG difference. There’s no official designation of what a line drive is and isn’t. It’s totally up to the official scorer. If the Colorado one has a different definition than, say, the Oakland one? Oh well.

23. The best defensive player in baseball for the second straight year is … Brett Gardner?

Gardner led baseball with plus 25.7 UZR last season. This year he’s at 18.3, and how Gardner saves more runs in left field than any of the great shortstops or center fielders casts skepticism on any system, including DRS, which has Gardner and Angels standout center fielder Peter Bourjos atop the league with 20 runs saved. Gardner has snagged more balls out of his zone (91) than every player but Justin Upton and Austin Jackson.

Ack! Gardner saves more runs in left field than any great SS or CF because…wait for this…left fielders are really, really shitty. So compared to the average left fielder? He’s awesome. Because he’s basically a CF playing LF. Shortstops, on the other hand, are generally awesome. So the baseline is very high. “Casts skepticism on any system”? Come on now. Think about this stuff.

by danmerqury on Aug 31, 2011 1:12 PM PDT reply actions  

I hadn’t realized that the pitch-type values weren’t even using PITCHf/x. That’s weird.

by doctawojo on Aug 31, 2011 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

They are.

PITCHf/x spits out a bunch of variables for each pitch (speed, movement, location, release point, spin, etc), and then MLBAM goes through with their neural nets and classifies each pitch with a name. Now, they’re generally pretty good, considering the massively difficult task at hand (Strasburg’s changeup is at 92, Braden’s fastball is at 88, etc), but they’re not perfect. And the pitch type linear weights just take the classifications as they are.

by danmerqury on Aug 31, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, oh

You just meant the classifications, not that this is stringer data. I get it now.

by doctawojo on Aug 31, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

I’m not even a stathead, and I thought that whole article was pretty terrible.

As baseball statistics become more popular they’re becoming more and more like regular statistics: ie, the people who do the stat work actually know what they’re doing, but everyone who quotes them in articles abuses the crap out of the numbers and draws phony conclusions.

And just like real-world statisticians everywhere, the sabermetricians are conflicted: They know full well that consumers of their product are going to habitually distort and misrepresent their findings. On the one hand they hate it and it offends their scientific integrity, but at the same time they realize that if it weren’t for widespread abuse of statistics in marketing, medicine, science, politics, etc, there would be very little demand for their work.

Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree

by iglew on Aug 31, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

In which case, the best thing to do is to check with the statisticians and ask,

“Do you mind if I use your work this way?”

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on Aug 31, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or, more often,

“Here’s your paycheck.”

Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree

by iglew on Aug 31, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Eh, that depends

Most scientists are more than happy to have their work quoted for free, since they already got paid for doing it.. Of course, they’re usually even happier to get paid $200+ an hour for an easy consulting gig.

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on Aug 31, 2011 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree

by iglew on Aug 31, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

"97.9 equals 98.0."

Somewhere, Joe Morgan is laughing at you.

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on Aug 31, 2011 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, at him

Because Joe Morgan can tell these two apart with his naked eye.

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on Aug 31, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

The infield popups part I found interesting.

2 seasons, 1 infield popup. that’s impressive.

"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey

by JJ on Aug 31, 2011 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Except that it depends on which batted-ball source you’re looking at.

by doctawojo on Sep 1, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fun with Fangraphs AND BBref

Fangraphs had an article about how to measure power, which looked at using linear weights in the wOBA formula instead of ISO as a measure of power. The new metric is called wXB/AB (weighted extra bases per at bat). I took a look at the spreadsheet in the article. Unsurprisingly, the A’s top performer (qualified batters only) is Willingham, who is #33 in all of baseball, followed by Suzuki (88), DeJesus (96), Matsui (102).

Just for fun (SSS alert), I calculated wXB/AB for our mid-season acquisitions/call-ups, looking at numbers with the A’s only. Sizemore would be tied with Corey Hart for 50th in all of baseball, Weeks would be tied with Matsui. Brandon Allen, in his short stint with the A’s, is 2nd, behind Jose Bautista.

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on Aug 31, 2011 1:16 PM PDT reply actions  

Have there been any Black Maria's driving around Sacramento?

Now I’m worried for G_S as the first victim of the military-industrial-Hollywood-sports blog complex.

That post’s disappearance was odd. First, it said that all of the comments were unread in the sidebar link (after I’d read them), then it disappeared altogether.

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on Aug 31, 2011 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Autoplay's gone too.

I think we did it. Nice work everyone.

by BWH on Aug 31, 2011 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

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