Is There Another Program On This Station?
by baseballgirl on Jul 8, 2011 8:29 PM PDT
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PrintHere's the good news. The A's scored 5 runs tonight. Here's the bad news. They had multiple chances to score many more runs, but failed. And the worse news? Texas scored 8, thanks to Kouzmanoff disguised as Adam Rosales at short, who singlehandedly cost the A's the game. Well, Gio helped a bit, but C'MON! How many times do we have to watch sloppy games like this!? How many games are left in the season?!
If you must know, the first inning was as disastrous as the game that was rained out for Gio. Remember that start? Replay it without rain. After retiring the first batter of the game, Gio gave up back-to-back singles. Then there was a ball hit to short, looking ever-so-enticingly double-play-ish. Rosales made an error (and it wouldn't be his only one) to allow the first run to score. The next hit sums up the A's futile season; it rolled right down the line, softly tapping the bag at third to load the bases. Of course, Texas hit a grand-slam on the next pitch (Napoli of all people; that one was on Gio). And just like that, it was 5-0. Strangely enough, the game was far from over; well, unless you have the A's offense with generally crappy hitters, who not only can't hit, but seem to try to make the worse possible outs on purpose. Knowing this, the game was over.
Sizemore homered in the second to put the A's on the board, but Kinsler and Beltre homered in their half of the second to put more runs on the board for Texas. Things were quiet until the fourth, when a Crisp walk, a Willingham single, and a Sizemore walk loaded the bases for the A's. Hey, thanks for trying. A double-play by Jackson brought home one run, but it killed the rally. I mean, I can't make this stuff up!
Ziegler replaced Gio in the fifth inning and threw two; allowing one run. His ERA is still under two. You may have noticed that I'm reduced to looking for tiny victories this season. More fun in the top of the sixth! The A's had a promising start with a bunt single by DeJesus, a stolen base, a passed ball, an RBI single by Coco, and an RBI double by Willingham, but just as soon as you started to feel a slight stirring of hope, Sizemore, Jackson and Sweeney struck out, back-to-back-to-back. Nice work.
The A's would put one last teAse on in the ninth, as Jackson walked, Sweeney singled, and Kurt Suzuki (who I think looks awful; your mileage may vary) couldn't hit his way out of a paper bag on the 3-1 count (he popped up foul), refused to walk; instead sending ball four into a rally-killing double-play.
And that was the game.
baseballgirl out
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Beane needs to start selling immediately
Bring up the kids from AAA. If they fail too, at least the A’s will get a high draft pick.
I have a feeling the A's are going to get a high draft pick no matter what
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm soothing my nerves with booze and poetry
How Do The A’s Stink
Apologies to Elizabeth Barrett Browning
How do the A’s stink? Let me count the ways.
The A’s stink to the depth and breadth and height
Of a sewer’s trench, so deep it’s out of sight.
For the ends of Being a land of waste.
The A’s stink to the level of every day’s
Traffic jam, in the morn and at night.
The A’s stink fully, yes that is right;
The A’s stink purely, they play in a daze.
The A’s stink with a hatred put to use
In my old griefs; they broke my childhood’s faith.
The A’s stink with a stench they never lose
Yes lose they do, - The A’s stink with the breath,
slop, and oinks of a hog! - and, I wish I could refuse,
Watching them because it’s worse then death.
by rovingralph on Jul 8, 2011 8:36 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL
everyone but Weeks, Sizemore (what a steal he seems to have been, eh? score one for Beane), Gio and Cahill and everyone else can go get a real job, for chrissakes.
This season, words like “pathetically mordant embarrassment” come to mind.
"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto
I really hope Sizemore's good and I've liked what I've seen,
but before I get giddy I want to see his line against RHPs go up. Currently: .210 /.288/ .310 (.598 OPS).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
With that line, it makes sense why they had Matsui taking grounders at third.
Oh wait, he would post nearly the same results.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
But Bob Melvin would be without his old Diamondback Conor Jackson
This is a “no go”!
DVRing the past couple games has allowed me to turn a three-hour game into a tidy 10 to 20 minute condensed can of suckfest.
Billy, please hurry up with the shake-up, or does the “media” need to precipitate this change much like you suggested at the end of the Bob Geren fiasco. In that case, attention was being diverted away from the field due to managerial incompetence. Now attention is being drawn away from the field simply because no one cares. The majority of the guys being trotted out there aren’t performing (Suzuki, DeJesus, Pennington, Jackson, Matsui, etc.). Keep Weeks and Sizemore and give Carter more time to sink or swim (or in the case of him playing 1b, just fall down trying to stop a grounder). Everyone else, i don’t give a passing care about.
I’m frustrated as a fan. Here’s to another Kurt Suzuki double-play groundout….
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
Preferably on ball four.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
True, that's twice as good as his patented pop-out.
In deference to Suzuki, he has been hitting this past week. That should stop soon.
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
Ever heard of Andrew Bailey
He’s pretty good.
he's our best trading chip
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 9, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
1 good news
Choice is the #1 prospect of the week for baseball America
not bad news
If he was up than Perry would ruin his swing so let him stay in A ball for now.
selling is fine, i guess
but keep in mind our minor league hitters aren’t exactly good. even though i sometimes wonder if they’re better than our major league hitters. not that that’s saying much. given the season, though, i dont think it matters. if we can get any reasonable prospects for anyone (the pitching should be protected, but if one of our young pitchers can get us back a hitter, do it), pull the trigger asap. the contending plan for this season just isn’t happening.
Selling is fine if you also get rid of the entire management
Starting with the GM.
I watch teams like slegnA develop good young hitters (Mark Trumbo goes deep for the win) and it pisses me off that the only think Beane can develop is an irritation I get thinking about that smug bastard and his lack of talent at putting a decent product on the field
Beane won't go anywhere
And if he does, he’ll just have his toady David Forst calling the shots, which has probably been slightly the case during the past couple seasons.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Jul 8, 2011 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I love the A's, but,
they are so very hard to watch. 5-0 in the first inning and we generate as much offense
as a Ladies Choice factory. Please Billy get some players worth watching. Play Carter,
please only play DDJ against the Angels period. Bring us some excitement, hope, dreams. Send Co Jack a packin.
I couldn't bare bring myself to comment on tonights game, but I couldn't make it 2 days in a row without an AN post
Tonights game was just all too familiar and sickening. Bases loaded, No Outs, and we (luckily) get 1 run out of it. Typical. Gio has been great this year, but ehh tonight. Still, watching the Halos game, and watching young Mark Trumbo hit a WALK OFF HR, not to mention watching Mike Trout’s 1st game, makes me dispise Billy Beane all the more. It is time, as we have been saying all year here on AN, to let the KIDS play: Taylor, Cardenas, Carter, Weeks, and Recker or Donaldson. Despite how awful we have been, I’m still sadly optimistic for what the 2nd half has in store — mainly because I really want to watch Carter, Taylor, Weeks, and Cardenas, but if Beane doesn’t make that happen by late July than I don’t think I can stomach this pathetic attempt at “professionals” playing the game of baseball anymore.
In happy news: glad to see Michael Choice as Baseball America’s prospect of the week. I loved our selection of him in the draft and Im going to stand by that.
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jul 8, 2011 10:25 PM PDT reply actions
Wait, Trumbo hit a walk-off HR?
He wasn’t instructed to carefully work a walk?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
This team is just bad, period.
For starters, Jackson and Matsui need to go asap, they suck and are not a part of the future, (at least Jackson shouldn’t be). Move Harden and let Outman and Moscoso stay in the rotation the rest of the year and let’s see what we’ve got with them. Also, give Powell to the gnats for a PTBN and call Recker up and let him play. Damn, remember when Boston was so high on Suzuki? Wonder what we could’ve got for him
by dashman33 on Jul 8, 2011 10:34 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Phase One Completed: Geren gone
Phase Two: Replace the hitting coach. I mean, it’s the hitting coach’s job to figure out why his players are underperforming and help them to perform up to their capabilities. NOTHING is happening. Nothing. Each player - Matsui, Suzuki - has a handful of good games then it’s back to double play grounders and pop ups.
Phase Three (in tandem with Phase Two): For Chrissake, it’s been years of bad roster management, going back to 2007 and the debacle of DFA’ing Milton Bradley because there were too many outfielders on the roster. Today, on a team struggling to hit and with Miller and Recker raking in AAA, we see 13 pitchers on the team and only three guys on the bench. This is nuts.
Phase Four: Begin the process of divestment. DeJesus, Crisp, Sweeney, Willingham, Matsui, Jackson - it’s time to move as many as possible. It would be nice to keep Sweeney for his fielding and Willingham for his power, but the other four are utterly expendable, particularly Matsui, who was one of the worst signings in A’s history.
Maybe it's 12 now...
…with Willingham back. Of course, half the team hits like pitchers anyway.
Clearing the outfield logjam
should be a priority.
Willingham can stay, for his power, but he is also one of team’s few valuable trading chips. And he really is a crappy fielder, so his future is at DH. Sweeney can stay, because he’s handy to have around. I would be willing to keep Jackson, if only for his ability to play multiple positions, but the trouble with that is that management is so in love with him that he’ll play every day. So maybe he should be traded.
DeJesus, Crisp, and Matsui have limited or non-existent value. You’re either trading them at a bad time or just dumping them to clear roster space. But you need to clear that roster space for the old AAA guys. Crisp isn’t a good hitter and can’t throw and is in his thirties. I would take just about anything for him. Matsui is a pro, but he’s not hitting and is not part of the team’s future. DeJesus is debatable, because he’s having such a terrible season. Maybe you keep him around and hope he gets better. But I wouldn’t be sad if he was traded either.
But unless you’re trading Bailey to a contender, or Willingham, don’t expect much in return.
How about bringing up AAA hitting coach
Looks like he is doing a good job in AAA so why not replace Perry with him. Couldn’t hurt.
I'm never one to blame the hitting coach for hitting woes...
but firing him can’t hurt at this point. You’re right—everyone is having a down year. It’s ridiculous.
It's not a question of blame
Seems to me that during the season it’s the hitting coach’s responsibility to work with the players when they’re not hitting: to figure out what the problem is, and help them solve it. Clearly Perry is failing, and maybe a fresh eye can see things that he’s missing.
But then for God's sake,
hire someone you have some reason to believe is especially good, and then plan to give them 5 years.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If Perry is fired....
Fast-forward 4 years in the future and Beane will rehire him.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Jul 9, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Didn't we have the Brewers hitting coach last year or the year before?
Either way, we blew. I say we just stick with Perry.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 9, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Name a positive hitting accomplishment for the A's in 2011
I see none. Why stick with Perry?
Assuming their success comes from working with him
Maybe the A’s should try putting out the money for a second hitting coach to work with veterans.
so you don't attribute success to the hitting coach
but you attribute failure to him?
I would suggest that at the big league level coaches have very little to do with success or failure of hitters aside from perhaps pointing out the occasional mechanical flaw, etc.
These guys already know how to hit. Gerald Perry is not teaching them anything.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Exactly.
Hell, it’s almost the other way around. I’d attribute very little to the hitting coach, but if anything…I’d judge him on rookie performance more than I would judge him on veteran performance.
How do the carryover players from last season compare this season?
That would be my only concern with the hitting coach. This is very difficult for a first year coach to achieve, as he is just learning their habits. Tweaking a veteran’s hitting has a lot to do with comfort level between the two personalities. Rookies tend to be more pliable by nature.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Preparing for pitchers
A hitting coach should be preparing their hitters for that days pitcher. What the pitcher throws or what to look for in certain account. Also work with hitters who are struggling. A hitting coach should see flaws in a hitter and help him adjust. If he has no bearing on hitter do why do you need him?
Lets see
The only 2 players hitting are the ones that been up a month. That says more about how he is not doing his job.
duh, because a month isn't long enough for him to screw up the 2 new guys
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Because he should make sucky hitters not suck?
We have below average hitters on this team. The poor offense is more of a reflection of personnel, than the hitting coach. I don’t think any of us expected Sizemore to hit as well as he has in Oakland. I’ll take it any day.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Kouz went 4-5 w/HR as well
He is now at wRC+108 and a OPS of .945 with a BA of .311. Too bad he can’t figure out how to hit.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I think he'll have to try again with another organization
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2011 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions
So he's finally outhitting Matt Carson. WOO!
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Along with just about everyone else in Sac
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
fine. bring him up. let him flail at major league again. why not? then we'll finally be done with him.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Be honest, if this were Barton, you'd be demanding he be recalled.
Kouz may not be the type of hitter AN likes, but that isn’t the same as being a failure.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Except Kouz, throughout his career,
has consistently been a poor hitter both in process and results. And each year he’s gotten…only worse.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Except, at this point he isn't hitting the ball.
He is playing like a statue. If we use the same theory of poor pitching in AAA, then Barton becomes horrible. He is relying on the poor pitchers not throwing strikes. He isn’t hitting in the same “hitters league” that Kouz’ success is ignored. Walks are the end-all that AN thinks.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
It's still a tiny sample.
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
Except that he is hitting worse in AAA than he did in Oakland.
Remember, Kouz has to OPS 1.100 in Sac before anyone will consider him. Kouz has improved his numbers after demotion, while Barton hasn’t.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
FF, you are one of the only people I have heard here say this.
Thank you for your honesty.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
He hasn't.
Unless you think a .900 OPS in AAA is the same as a .900 OPS in MLB. Which, after reading many of your comments, you shockingly seem to indicate that you do sort of hold this belief.
Ok. So yes, I guess by that measure, he has improved his numbers significantly!
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Wrong, I'm comparing his numbers to the other players in the A's system.
Just use the same standards for all the AAA players equally. First, it was that his BB rate is low. However, his BB/SO has improved. Then it was that he isn’t at 1.100 OPS, well he is at .945. Then, it’s his BA, well now he is at .311. Every time he obtains a particular level AN changes to a different stat to state how bad he is. Just tell me WHAT his stat line has to be for him to become acceptable for AN..
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
It's gonna have to be something absolutely crazy.
Because Kouzmanoff has a long, long track record of being a bad ML hitter. Sure, he can beat up on bad pitching because he’s not swinging at slop so much. Doesn’t mean he’ll be a good ML hitter.
Forgive me, but that is an wishlist, not a statline.
I want Sizemore to hit like A-Rod, but that isn’t realistic. Hell, I’d love Penny to hit like Jeter( to go along with Cliff’s defense). I just want an HONEST performance level that is acceptable to AN. Jose Bautista stunk for years before he figured it out. What MLB standards would you find acceptable for Kouz( and please DO take into account his well above average glove)
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
wait, what? He could barely fucking field this year.
It is pretty obvious that last year’s +16 UZR is the exception and not the rule with him.
He’s an adequate fielder and a poor hitter. What’s there to be excited about?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
His above average glove that has be steadily declining
each year and show no signs of getting better?
What well above average glove?
That’s gone by the wayside. Arm, glove, whatever.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
That's exactly what it'd take.
A wishlist statline. Because he’s gone. Done. Unless he does something absolutely miraculous, he won’t play in an Oakland uniform again.
For starters,
he can perform better than he did as a 24 year in AAA 6 years ago and better than 8 percent of the average AAA hitter this year.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
The whole point is that you can't use the same standards for every hitter.
Why don’t you understand that there’s a difference between a 21 year old, in his first time in the league, putting up the exact same line in AAA as a 29 year old, in his third time in his league?
I’ve compared Kouzmanoff to himself 5 years ago, in his last year in the minors, to which he compares unfavorably. I’ve compared Kouzmanoff to every hitter in AAA this year, to which he compares unfavorably. What part of this framework do you not find unsatisfactory (well other than the fact that it finds your obsession inadequate….)?
You’ve insisted on comparing Kouzmanoff to a cherry picked sample (specific A’s hitters), while ignoring all the stats that doesn’t show what you want it to show. And you’re accusing me of twisting numbers and changing the goalposts? There’s very few things that angers me more than when someone else accuses me of lack of academic integrity when they’re blatantly flaunting their lack of this quality at the same time.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Wrong!
I asked for a legitimate slash line that you would find acceptable, so that we can have an honest analysis of his performance. You say that you compared him to his 5-year old AAA stats, yet stm says that this is wrong. You give me some legitimate answer, and I let it go. Just make it an honest figure that other AAA players must obtain before they get the call.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Get away from focusing on his slash line for a moment
And focus on his approach (or lack thereof) at the plate and why that bodes poorly for whatever future he may have left in the bigs.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I have yet to see this approach stat.
Earlier, I was told he had to have a OPS of 1.100 for anyone to take notice. He is now approaching it. I believe that if Kouz improved his BB rate to 10%, AN still wouldn’t want him around.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
If he improved his BB rate significantly, some people's tunes would change
Considering he’s got a career BB-rate of 4.6% however…good luck.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
He is not "approaching" a 1.100 OPS.
Do you think every hitter with a .745 OPS is “approaching” a .900 OPS? He does not have a 10% BB rate. He has less than half of that right now.
So until he actually gets there….
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Well, now you are mixing his MLB weighted OPS with the figure you presented in yesterday's thread.
His current AAA OPS is at .945.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I'm not mixing anything.
You’re saying that a .945 OPS is “approaching” 1.100. That’s the same as saying a guy with a .745 OPS is “approaching” .900. I used this example to show how flawed this thinking is.
Is Ryan Sweeney “approaching” a .900 OPS every year?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Because of the type of hitter he is, we should look at his BB/SO, rather than BB/PA.
He has gone from 1/4 in Oakland this year, to 1/3. This is an improvement.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
"Because of the type of hitter he is?"
What, you think you can just arbitrarily say “Here’s a guy who’s BB-rate really doesn’t matter” and think that’s going to stick?
Even a 3:1 K/BB ratio is still awful, let alone 4:1.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I'm asking, because Kouz' other stats,
such as HRs, etc. that are frowned upon when used in these discussions. less credit for those(and their affect on the game), than Barton does with his BBs.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Really?
Kouzmanoff can get you about 15-20 homers a year, sure. But he brings NOTHING else to the table with the bat. In other words, if he’s not hitting that home run every 8-10 games he’s worthless at the plate.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Who's frowning?
The MLE line I cited includes the production from his home runs. Why do you insist on bringing Barton into this discussion, when no one else is?
Anyone, stathead or not, will admit that Barton’s performance sucks this year, both in the majors and the minors. This isn’t a discussion about Barton’s suckiness. It’s about Kouzmanoff.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
No. We. Shouldn't.
You’re basically saying walks don’t matter as much for Kouzmanoff because that’s not what he’s good at.
Do you seriously not see how ridiculous and biased this line of thinking is?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
By the way
Barton is awful at hitting home runs so we shouldn’t worry that much about his .267 SLG.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Uh, what?
This is the very definition of cherry picking. And confirmation bias. And a whole lot more.
dan, all I've heard is that he has to do better.
I want to know by how much.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
The blunt answer is "By whatever standards the A's deem are enough"
But I feel safe in saying his lack of plate discipline – good results or not – is a big part of that equation along with his declining defense.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
That includes a 1/2 year decline in defense
Last year’s defense wasn’t poor.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
And note:
His career BB-rate in the minors: 8.2%.
His career K-rate in the minors: 14.4%.
In the bigs the BB-rate has dropped to 4.6% while his K-rate has jumped to 18.4%. The gap between them more than doubles with that step up in levels.
Not good.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
.
Just make it an honest figure that other AAA players must obtain before they get the call.
You’re still not getting the whole, age relative to league/every player is different thing huh?
You can continue to scream “Wrong!” at the head of every subject line in your responses to me and then follow it up with a bunch of nonsensical rambling but I can also choose to ignore it.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
All I'm wondering, is what Kouz has to do for AN to give him another chance.
There seems to be two different standards being applied on this site, which I think is hypocritical, and shows disapproval of his style of hitting, over his actual performance. Many here who claim to use the neutrality of statistical analysis as a way to be impartial, throw it all out the window when the subject comes to Kouzmanoff. It just seems that there is plenty of emotion against Kouz on AN. High on him? Not really, because I believe that his best shot is with a team other than Oakland. For those who don’t believe that his AAA performance isn’t worth a team to trade for? I think they have blinders on.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Sorry for the double negative. I'm sure you know what I meant.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I think everyone here would love to see Kouzmanoff traded for someone of value
And I think he would have been traded if there’d been any interest. It seems though as if there’s not, so the only real question is whether he’s showing AAAA talent now, or if he’s ready for a return to the big leagues. Because of a general career decline, year to year, the odds are that he’s no longer a major league player.
The obsession with Barton is something else, and I think has to do with a love for patience that I don’t see as justified, based on actual results (rather than statistical projections).
The obsession with Barton is because he put up
very good offensive numbers as a 24 year old last year, patience or no patience, regardless of the fact that he plays first base while hitting only 10 homers. Overall, he was the first Oakland all star caliber position player since Chavez in 2005. Whereas Kouzmanoff, no joke, was one of the 15 worst hitters in the league last year (sort by wRC+).
If Barton doesn’t work out, the A’s have absolutely no internal 1B options. Period. Unless you look very deeply into the low low minors but those guys are 3 to 4 years away. So even those of you who hate Barton with every cell in your heart should still hope he works out.
With Kouzmanoff, at least you have Sizemore or Green as options, when he eventually moves there.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Lots of players put up one year of good numbers
Barton was so awful this year, so utterly awful, and his fielding suffered as well. The arguments to keep him because of his “track record” was, I thought, ridiculous. The guy couldn’t hit in 2008 and he couldn’t hit in 2011, and he still can’t hit.
As for last year, I found him serviceable because of his OBP and his glove, but the lack of power at 1B meant it had to come from elsewhere. And because 1B is the easiest position to play, it usually comes from there. It’s where teams stick players like McGwire, Giambi or Ortiz because there’s nowhere else. The 2010 Barton is fine at 1B if A-Rod is playing 3B.
The lack of any First Base alternative in the A’s organization is appalling, by the way, and is another area, one of many, where the Front Office has put in an abysmal job.
except for, you know, one of the better power hitting prospects in the minors
who plays first base.
but besides him
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
And Texas has 4 of the top 50 mid-season prospects,
while the A’s have zero. Quite depressing.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
The thing is, though, with any comparisons being made to Barton, those should stop
They’re not the same type of hitter and never will be. Barton is almost TOO patient, while Kouzmanoff’s hardly patient at all.
This season, the only regular with a lower Pit/PA ratio than him has been Crisp.
Last year, no regular on the team was lower.
In 2009 with San Diego, his ratio was at least closer to league average but still the worst of their regulars.
In 2008 only Jody Gerut had a poorer ratio and only then just barely.
In 2007 he was slightly ahead of Khalil Greene and Marcus Giles, but all three of them were nearly interchangeable.
Point is, he has a history of average to decent power but awful walk rates. There’s a reason his career high in BB is 32 and his K/BB ratio is just shy of 4:1. This is a guy who has no plate discipline, someone who just goes up there swinging at nearly everything he sees with usually poor results.
Nobody’s asking him to walk as much as Barton does, but he only walks on average once every 5.5 games over his career and when he does swing he usually doesn’t have very good results in the Majors. So, he’s not worth much with the bat regardless of what he’s doing in the hitter-friendly PCL.
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This would suggest that we need to use different statistics for Kouz, correct?
Since they are such different hitters, do we change the weighting on his SLG, and shear number of balls he puts in play?
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
No
You don’t use different stats that look convenient to cherry pick why one guy might look better or worse than he is.
Kouzmanoff’s MLB track record speaks for itself at this point. If he comes back to the Majors and turns it around somehow, good for him. Chances are it will have to happen somewhere else and with his lack of understanding at the plate I’d be surprised if it happened.
At least Barton knows the zone enough that if he can ever get things right with the bat he’ll be an effective hitter again.
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Why would a percentage point of Kouzmanoff's slugging be more valuable than any other hitter's SLG?
Well unless you want to arbitrarily make Kouzmanoff look better than he — oh.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Don't go there!
The comment was that Barton and Kouz are different types of hitters. Would you compare Barry Bonds with the same stats as Rickie?
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
That's not the point
They’re not different types of hitters based just on stats, but rather approach, plate discipline and the like.
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When I started posting comments on this site, I was told that opinion isn't as important as stats.
Now, when the subject is Kouz, the intangibles become important.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
That's not what he's saying. Jesus.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I see no reason to bring the lord's name into this disagreement.
And,
Well unless you want to arbitrarily make Kouzmanoff look better than he — oh.
I see no reason for you to be condescending, just because I don’t agree with you.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
It's not condescension when that's exactly what you're doing in this entire thread.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I have been consistant in my request for a level of play that we can judge Kouz by,
and have yet to hear it.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
.
For starters,
he can perform better than he did as a 24 year in AAA 6 years ago and better than 8 percent of the average AAA hitter this year.
by lenscrafters on Jul 9, 2011 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
That doesn't give us a goal, now does it.
If he improves to 110OPS, will that be enough? Does he have to score a 150OPS? The bar needs to be set, while right now it is constantly moving.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
To me, results matter less than the approach in his case
He’s hitting the ball well in Sacramento but he’s still not walking any more than he’s been before.
I say this because you would expect the hitting to decline somewhat with a return to the bigs but if he improves his walk rate and can take that with him, he’s in better shape going forward.
I’d bet you he’s still seeing no more pitches per AB than he always has.
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Thank you for telling me what you will need to see, FF.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I find it interesting that throughtout their careers,
Kouz has averaged 3.56 pitches/PA, Beltre 2.84, Longoria 3.91, A-Rod 2.32, and Jeter 2.27. I am NOT trying to say Kouz is in their league, I’m just using it for reference.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
guess that shows that pitches per PA
doesn’t mean shit if you’re not a good hitter.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Then his discipline won't matter.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
hehehe
( back to square one)
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
But seriously, even bumping his walk rate up to about 7%...
…still doesn’t help him all that much if he’s not actually hitting the ball on a higher level.
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I'm not sure what you're looking at...
…but here are their figures:
Beltre – 3.76 (with league average also 3.76 during his time)
Longoria – 3.90 (3.81 LA)
A-Rod – 3.93 (3.75 LA)
Jeter – 3.75 (3.75 LA)
Kouz – 3.56 (3.80 LA)
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I just took fangraphs total pitches for their career, and divided it by total PAs
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I see what the problem is
Checking A-Rod, at least.
Fangraphs is only showing seasons 2002-2011 in displaying pitches seen (24517) but he’s been playing since 1994 (10550 PA).
BB-Ref shows 41274 pitches and 10513 PA. Not exact in PA between the two but there’s your difference.
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Sorry, I just noticed that
Jeter comes out to 3.42 from 2002 on.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
My bad.
I had come up with 7219 PAs. 3.74 it is.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
The Mrs has noted that the fingers aren't what they used to be.
The buttons on my HP 49g+ get smaller every year.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
By the way
If you want to see where BB-Ref tracks it by year and career, take Jeter here:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeterde01.shtml
Click “More Stats” to the right of “Standard Batting” then go down to “Pitch Summary – Batting” to see Pit/PA. You can do this for any hitter (or pitcher, for that matter).
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Thank you.
It’s amazing how poor a defender Jeter really is. On average, it cost him 0.75 WAR per season. His hitting has averaged 5 WAR for 17 years. Wouldn’t that be nice to have.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I appologize.
I didn’t notice that pitches seen only dated back to 2002.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Aaaaand take a look at Kouzmanoff on BB-Ref
Go to the same “More Stats” area and check “Ratio Batting” – notice the differences between his BB% and SO/BB ratios compared to league average – those are a couple of the differences I’ve been talking about.
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Unfortunately the lengths you're taking to prop up Kouzmanoff in the face of everything people are telling you...
…makes no sense whatsoever.
You’re trying to ignore or lessen the importance of stats (such as things dealing with walks or pitches seen) that are very key to this discussion simply because “they’re not indicative of the kind of hitter he is.”
Wow, you don’t say!
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I'm pretty sure nobody ever told you that stats were the only thing you could look at
But even then, when I talk about his approach and plate discipline I’m using stats to back it up. They’re just not AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS stats but rather Pit/PA, BB-rate, K/BB, etc.
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Absolutely.
One of Bonds’ walks aren’t invariably more valuable than one of Rickey’s walks. One of Bonds’ homers aren’t invariably more valuable than one of Rickey’s homers.
You don’t weigh slugging more for one hitter just because that’s the hitters primary skill.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
That last statement is being made as if it's law
It’s not. It’s dogma that has been adopted as if it’s law. YOU don’t weigh slugging more. I’m actually not sure if the one-size-fits-all approach really is the best way to win ball games. Attempts to play roster management that way by the A’s have failed.
so a home run from one player is different than a home run from another?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
In a way
If you’re a GM, and you’ve signed a power hitter as the clean-up guy and he winds up walking a lot and hitting no homers, then you’re screwed if nobody is there to pick up the slack. If you sign a guy with a high OBP and he hits more homers than expected, that’s gravy.
yes. 287/330/554
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Which definitely won't be duplicated in the Coliseum
Try to sell if someone will take him.
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It really doesn't matter. People have apparently forgotten that he was removed from the 40 man roster.
He is quite clearly not a part of the team’s plans going forward.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
This is actually why I brought him up in this thread.
Since he isn’t part of our future plans, trade him now, while his value is high. There has to be an MLB team taking notice of his AAA number, and is willing to take a flyer on him.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
just how much money does the A's eat is the question
Somebody will take a flyer on him but the A’s owe to much money so will they give us a prospect worth eating about 3 million dollars?
That doesn't matter, since he is in AAA anyway.
If he isn’t part of the future, he could just as well cost $10M. Get the best you can while he is playing well.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Joel Sherman of the NYPost speculated on Twitter that the Yankees might want Kouz
to fill in if A-Rod has surgery.
No, really.
M-A, M-A-R, M-A-R-K, Ell-is!
by Englishmajor on Jul 9, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
After last night's game,
if you translate Kouzmanoff’s line to Oakland, you get a line of .260/.294/.473. For a 29 year old in AAA who’s already played in the majors, that’s not a good MLE at all. Keep in mind that this MLE doesn’t take into account his age at all, nor the fact that he’s an ex major leaguer playing in AAA. It doesn’t distinguish between a 29 year old like Kouzmanoff putting up those numbers or a 21 year old, in his first go around in the league, putting up those numbers. An actual projection system that takes age into account, along with the fact that he’s repeating the league, would spit out a far worse major league projection for Kouzmanoff than this MLE.
Btw, his MLE before last night’s game was .239/.268/.433. I was about to bring it up in yesterday’s discussion but I didn’t want to embarrass your boy further because I do admire your audacious, irrational support of the guy. So I was hoping you’d just concede and let it go after yesterday. But your insistence on continuing this discussion by spreading false information is irksome. That statline you just quoted….
He is now at wRC+108 and a OPS of .945 with a BA of .311.
….the only one that matters is his wRC+, which compares him against all the hitters in the league. And compared to all the hitters in the league, most of whom are younger than he is and doesn’t have 5 years of major league experience under their belts (notice how I keep repeating age-relative-to-league and the fact that he is repeating this level; you don’t seem to grasp how important this context is), he is still only about 8 percent better than the average hitter there.
So yes, he certainly hasn’t “figured out how to hit” yet. At least not in a way that indicates “how to hit” refers to hitting at the major league level. And other major league GMs know all of this. They don’t evaluate Kouzmanoff with the same personal attachment you do. So perhaps if he has a few more of yesterday’s game, we’ll get a Trystan Magnusson for him.
But until then, we’re stuck paying the remainder of 4 million dollars to a 29 year old who’s barely an above average AAA hitter. And no other team wants to be in that position. That’s why most of us believe he has no trade value…not because we’re the irrational ones.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 9, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I notice that you have left out that with this adjusted line,
Kouz would be 5th/10th/2nd on the A’s current roster.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
There are 8 starting hitters, of which he would come out 10th in OBP, and you think that's a positive thing?
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
you can never really have enough sub .300 OBPs
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Read my comment again. Especially this part:
An actual projection system that takes age into account, along with the fact that he’s repeating the league, would spit out a far worse major league projection for Kouzmanoff than this MLE.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Well, look at his history
The MLE shown includes an OPS of .767, a total he’s surpassed only once in his career (.786 in 2007). Since then: .732, .722, .679 and .615 this season. That’s not a trend you want to see.
There is no reason to look at what he’s been doing in a few weeks in the Minors and think he’d continue it back up here.
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So we sell...sell...sell
Who’s buying and what would they buy? Who’s actually movable for anything? (I mean that we would part with?)
CRISP: I would say top of the list is Crisp. He brings a team proven offense, speed and his average elsewhere would likely be .020 higher. Keep Sweeney and let him start. My guess is the major difference there would be the speed on the bases so it will cost us 20 SBs the rest of the year. So, we have Weeks batting leadoff for the rest of the year and his speed hypothetically offsets the loss of Crisp. Does Sweeney play center, well that depends on if you can sell…
WILLINGHAM: He’s demonstrated pop and he’s hitting at the moment, conveniently enough. That opens up another outfield spot for Miller. From what The WhizKid tells me, he’ll bring a lot of Ks but what’s the downside? I actually prefer those to popups and double plays.
DeJesus: maybe we unload him but I doubt he’ll bring a lot. Same for CoJax…mediocre average, not much pop.
I can’t see us moving Gio, Cahill…at least I hope not. 50/50 on Bailey but I do expect to lose at least one closer…likely a righty so possibly Wuertz. I hope if they trade Bailey they are forced to take Fuentes as part of the bargain. I think we keep pitching but a RH reliever is expendable with DLS pitching decently.
I doubt Suzuki moves because I think Beane really likes the way he handles pitching but, they like that in Powell too so who knows. As weak as catching is around the majors, maybe someone will offer something decent for him.
So, let’s not get our hopes up. When we say SELL, SELL, SELL, it’s not like folks are going to beat a path to our door for the folks we’ve been trashing for two months now. Expect rock bottom prices. The major upside would be seeing if we actually have some talent at AAA. And, I’d be surprised if anyone wants Harden. Two starts, one good and one bad and a history like a police blotter.
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
Replace Crisp with Miller or Mitchell
Replace Willingham with Taylor
Replace DeJesus with Cardenas
Suzuki needs to learn how to hit a baseball or he needs to go too
On;ly 2 players with value
Other than Crisp or Willingham none of the other players have any trade value. With Crisp you may get a B level prospect and with Willingham he is worth the draft picks next year unless a team is willing to give up a good prospect.
Add Bailey
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Bailey is a keeper
His value will be higher in offseason. He could bring back the Yank top prospect if traded.
If there's no buyers
then DFA DFA DFA DFA DFA DFA
"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto
by emperor nobody on Jul 9, 2011 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm amused by the fact that
Most of these ‘AAA kids’ people here are clamoring about are like 26.5 on average.
I want to see them before they're 26.6
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2011 5:01 AM PDT up reply actions
THIS
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
Not A Great Game At All
Gio struggled, and it’s horribly ironic that the one time the A’s score 5 runs, the pithing struggles.
Oh well, let’s go and get ’em tomorrow.
Stop hitting into double plays
We hit into very untimely double plays, without being a team that hits a lot of home runs. Errors are frequent.
Let’s go guys!
8th in MLB in GIDP with 75, oof
Strange thing is 7 of the top 8 teams are in the AL. The only NL team? St. Louis, which has the most overall (97, with the Angels second with 88).
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NL would possibly have fewer with pitchers doing more bunting
I would expect them to have 8/9ths the number of AL GIDP.
Could be
Last year 3 of the top 10 were in the NL. Year before that it was 4, then 4 again.
How about the 10 least? This year and the three prior, 7 of the 10 were NL teams.
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Yeah, but those Cardinal guys do something the A's players can't
Hit the long ball. A little easier to hide a wart like 97 GIDP when you hit the ball out of the park
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
Only oppossing hitters a allowed to hit HRs in Oakland.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Ssserioussssly, what isssss wrong with you?
Ssssso many sssssuperfluoussssss ssssss!!!
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
My trade idea
Trade McCarthy, Devine and DeJesus to the Yanks for Swisher. Why it works for the Yanks. They get a much needed starter a much needed relief pitcher and a 4th outfielder. The A’s get a 1st baseman with pop and has a option for next year. The Yanks do not want to pick up Swisher’s option @ 12 million next year so they will let him go. With how hard it will be for our cheap owner to bring in FA next year we better start trading for some new players.
So Swisher can hit like .211 at the Coli
No Disrespect but $12 million. Not going to happen in 12 million years
And the fact that he won’t have any hitters around him means he will suck like all the rest
It is to much money
But I don’t see the A;’s getting any FA wanting to play here so you got to get what you can. The only players Beane will sign is guys at the end of baseball life.
Nope, because I think of Jeter the same way as I do Pete Rose.
They may be good players, but I couldn’t care less about them.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I know it's difficult for A's fans to recognise good hitters these days.
But Jeter. Plays SS for the Yankees. #2. He’s been an excellent hitter for the past 17 years or so. Tough to miss.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
He spells humor with an extra U.
That should tell you everything you need to know.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. —Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
by pam5981 on Jul 9, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Indeed. British humour is drier and far more awesome.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I just love Benny Hill's humour.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I liked Coupling. The American version, not so much. Except for Rena Sofer.
by player20 on Jul 9, 2011 11:00 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Are you sure you're talking about British humour, and not British cooking?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 9, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Indeed. British humour is drier and far more awesome freaking weird.
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
This Quote sums it ALL up.
“Strangely enough, the game was far from over; well, unless you have the A’s offense with generally crappy hitters, who not only can’t hit, but seem to try to make the worse possible outs on purpose. "
No matter how good your pitching is (and the A’s pitching isn’t completely dominant but is quite adequate), pitching does not score runs. Therefore position players are hired to HIT THE BALL (oh, and play decent defense as well). If they can not hit the BALL, they need to be jettisoned as fast as possible and replaced with someone who CAN hit the ball! Current ownership is either too incompetent or too cheap to do this so we have another prototypical A’s season of FAILURE.
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
LOL!
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 9, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Oldham, (or anyone that cares to comment):
Do you think Jeter is a Hall of Famer right now? Or what would he have to accomplish?
by player20 on Jul 9, 2011 10:35 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I'd say he's a hall of fame calibre player (3000 is pretty much a lock)
But if he was in KC or Milwaukee, it’d take a couple of ballot years.
I think he is overrated. He has been fortunate enough to be on a team that has been very successful in the postseason.
I don’t necessarily like the guy, but he is on the threshold of 3,000. That’s saying something. As much as I dislike it, I tip my cap. Future HoFer.
by player20 on Jul 9, 2011 10:40 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes
I don’t like the over the top praise Jeter gets but he is a hall of famer and will be most likely a first ballot player. He is a winner no doubt about it. He is the Allen Trammel of today’s game and playing in NY will put him way over in votes.
There should be no question about this
He’s a first-ballot hall of famer for several reasons.
Reason No. 1? Who votes for the HoF? Writers. And they pleasure themselves to writing lines like, “The valiant hitting of the Yankee captain, Derek Jeter!” [cums]
Reason No. 2: 3,000 hits. Didn’t you see Mr. 3000? Kind of a mediocre film, but Stan Ross (he’s the boss) was right: 3,000 is an automatic pass to Cooperstown.
Reason No. 3: He has played a prominent position for the most famous team in baseball for nearly two decades, where he won four championships.
Plus he has a shitload of miscellanous other awards like Silver Sluggers, a Gold Glove, World Series MVP, etc.
He is a little overrated, and hasn’t been that great of a player for the last few years, but there should be no question he is a first-ballot HoFer.
BTW, Mark Mulder was talking about Jeter on SportsCenter just mentioned the infamous Jeter flip. Why Mark?!?! WHY!?!?!!?
Also: SLIDE JEREMY!!!!!!!!! SLLLLIIIIIDDDDEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [weeps]
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
I've read a lot of comments saying that they always seem to do just enough to lose.....
i.e. they score 2, but give up 3, or they score 8 but give up 10. I’ve honestly developed this sort of opinion myself. So what I did was take all of the A’s scores and all of their opponents scores and put them in columns of a Numbers table. I then sorted their scores ascending and the opponents decending to see that, if everything was the same, and only the day was different, would they be a club like Seattle or SF (i.e. no offense, good pitching and a lot of luck giving them good records).
The end result? Even if they scored all their runs on just the right day, they’d have 39 wins (with 5 games tied at 3-3).
Does this really mean anything? Probably not but I found it a little interesting.
You might like
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
A few weeks ago...
I said the A’s could possibly win 2 more games a week if they scored 5 more runs a week (on average). This would have eliminated almost all of our extra inning losses and turned a few 1 run losses in our favor. Unfortunately, this has not happened. The sheer volume of close games that have not gone our way is mind-boggling.
by player20 on Jul 9, 2011 10:52 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I think optimum scoring is different than your sort
Ascending vs descending would rule out 1-0 wins, for example.
But the point is made – the break even spot is about where we are, within 2.5 games that were the 3-3 ties.
The scarry part of the A's, is how our prospects stack up against the Division leaders.
We have no prospects in the mid-season top 50 rankings, while Texas has 4. The Rangers have 8 percent of baseball’s top prospects!
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
The guy averaged 176 hits per season,( for 17 seasons), and hit 179 in 2010.
He is a very good player.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
But he plays for the Yankees, so he's the devil, obviously.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
SO FUCKING WHAT
jesus man you don’t get it. You’re basically trolling right now by continuing to talk about him.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
By the way
Fuck Derek Jeter.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
by Flashfire on Jul 9, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
rec'd
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 9, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
The way I see it
I’m glad he finally hit it so I can stop hearing about it everywhere sooner.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 9, 2011 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Now if only Matsui would hit number #500
So the A’s can release him.
I would love to see him hit #525 before they release him in August.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I think he's gone after #500
We’re past the halfway mark in the season and our power hitting DH has a line of .287/.330/.617, or in more traditional terms, .217-6-33, hitting in the #3 or #4 slot.
Let the cap tipping commence.
(Tipping cap)
by player20 on Jul 9, 2011 11:03 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I hate the Angels.
I hate the L.A. of Anaheim thing. Scioscia. Saunders. Guerrero. Anderson. Hunter. Lackey. (Salmon, not so much). K-Rod. Donnelly. Napoli. The Rally Monkey. The 3 foot fences, and the fireworks after a homerun. All that being said, it was cool that they let Trout get some playing time.
by player20 on Jul 9, 2011 11:18 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
A lot of the talk around here lately has reminded me of
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
Hey look, England failed in the world cup again.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Ok, Jai Miller should be called up.
I really don’t care about whether or not people claim that Miller is just a AAAA player. No one can possibly know that, and some players do get better with more experience. Perhaps Miller has figured out to hit, or perhaps he hasn’t which is what many of you claim. Either way, Miller has 20 home runs, a ton of speed, a .396 OBP and a .291 batting average. Ok, i realize that many of you call him a “non-prospect,” but it is time to reward players who perform well. Miller is performing much better than some of our “good prospects,” and I definitely believe that Miller deserves a chance to play with the A’s.
Carter had sucked at AAA, and he is performing just as bad here with the A’s. Either send him down and call up Miller, or trade DeJesus. Some of you think that DeJesus should be resigned, but I think that DeJesus just can’t hit with the A’s. Trade him to another team, and his stats will assuredly pick up. When they do, we should not regret trading him because it is highly unlikely that he would have ever been the same hitter in Oakland that he was in Kansas City. Miller deserves a chance, and DeJesus needs to go.
He still has a flukishly high BABIP and an atrocious K rate.
He is basically a slight better version of Matt Carson. Been there done that, no thank you.
I am not so sure
I guess I don’t really agree with your assessment. I don’t think that high K rates are that big of a deal, and how do you know that his BABIP is “flukish”? Don’t good hitters generally have a pretty high BABIP?
by Rygoslinglover on Jul 9, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Ultimately, none of us know how well he is going to perform
until he actually plays. All I am saying is that Miller deserves a chance at least. Sizemore has certainly performed much better than what his statistical history has suggested.
by Rygoslinglover on Jul 9, 2011 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Based on what the 237 PA he had with the Tigers before they flipped him
for a reliever? Or the career .300/.388/.453 he put up in the minors?
.425 = stupid high BABIP
As for K rates when it is hovering around 37% at AAA what do you expect that will rise too against MLB pitchers?
High K rates are a huge deal in the minors.
Because they generally say that you’ll have even more trouble making contact in a higher level of competition. And a .425 BABIP is flukish by anybody.
The good news is the team is fading enough that someone like Miller could be brought up soon...
…to prove this one way or the other.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Yep.
He’d be fun to watch, I’m sure. I’m getting close to wanting to trade the whole OF (who are all FAs anyway) and rolling with Miller and Taylor. And Mitchell, perhaps.
Yes, but Taylor seems to have slowed down,
and Miller will come in with low expectations from the organization and it’s fans. Taylor is considered one our top prospects, so we may expect him to do more than he is ready to contribute. If Miller sucks, then it will be no big deal. If he does well, then we may have found a bargain.
by Rygoslinglover on Jul 9, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok, well perhaps it is flukish,
but his “normal” BABIP could still be quite high. Perhaps he will be a horrible player in the majors, but don’t you think that he deserves a chance at least? I would definitely give him a shot, but maybe that is just me. Miller has a ton of speed, so his high BABIP makes some sense to me. He probably beats out a lot of weak grounders a la rajai davis style.
by Rygoslinglover on Jul 9, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
He's not nearly as fast as you seem to think
24 SB is the best he’s had in the minors. That’s decent. That year he also got caught 10 times. That 70% success rate suddenly looks pretty bad, doesn’t it?
Career rate of 71% by the way.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I have heard he gets out of the batter's box super quick though
He could just be bad at stealing bases. He wouldn’t be the first speedy guy to suck at getting a good jump and whatnot
by Rygoslinglover on Jul 9, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
To me he isn't a part of the future, just org filler
If current OFs we’re dealt and he was brought up I wouldn’t be against it, but I’m not chomping at the bit to watch what I see as yet another AAAA player playing in Oakland.
last-minute BITCHES! so mad. nothing personal on you, of course. they just always do that. did you see the final of the ’07 copa america?
by AV on Jul 9, 2011 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course :p
I did miss Fred’s goal I had switched to Jap/Ger for a sec but saw the replay.
And wow Japan!
funny how a tie can look so different game to game. this one was pretty triumphant. must have made your day a little brighter. i have no more ponies running today (other than the A’s) and my day needs real sun shine (so i’m not gonna rely on them). i’m gonna go on a hike and clear my head for monday’s tragedy.
by AV on Jul 9, 2011 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
This CA has been pretty lackluster so far, WWC much better atm
But tomorrow is gonna suck, gonna watch Brazil/USA with my dad those are always fun matches.
High K rates aren't a big deal if you have a tremendous walk rate coupled with plus plus power.
See Cust, Jack.
Unfortunately, Miller doesn’t even come close to Cust’s contact abilities. Cust struck out at about a 20-25% rate in the minors. In the majors, Cust struck out 38% of the time. Miller is striking out at that rate in the minors.
That said, I’d rather see Miller fail in the majors than Jackson and Matsui fail.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
You're wrong about one thing
We have been there and done that with Carson, because he actually had a chance to play. Miller has not. SO BRING HIM UP
Seriously, what’s the worst that can happen? I’ll bet anyone on this site 20 bucks he won’t put up the worst numbers on the team. You never know what can happen if you bring someone up.
Shall we not forget the sanctified Kust? He who is so revered by the statheads? Bet many people thought he was finished as a 28-year-old minor leaguer. Then he went ahead and spent the next four years in the majors, and is still in the big leagues today.
So before we completely write off the terribly ancient and over-the-hill 26-year-old Jai Miller, can he at least get a couple hundred major league PAs so we can just be sure?
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
Like I said up a little, if another OF(s) get moved so he can easily get on the 40 man
thats fine, outside of that I’m content not seeing him. Cust got progressively worse so I don’t think that will endear you to anyone not excited to see Miller.
Landon sighting
Susan Slusser
#Athletics at #Rangers: Weeks 2b, Crisp cf, Matsui lf, Willingham dh, Sizemore 3b, DeJesus rf, Carter 1b, Powell c, Pennington ss
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
I like 3 of the 9
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jul 9, 2011 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Matsui, Powell, and Carter/Pennington?
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
That seems like a bad thing
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
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