Trade Dealine Thread, Vol. 4: The One Where Something (Involving Us) Happens
by hero66 on Jul 27, 2011 10:53 AM PDT
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Apparently the last title wasn't clear enough, so now I'm confident that something interesting involving the A's will occur. The fact that two outfielders are now off the market helps things, too.
The Cardinals, in a true WTF move that tops most other WTF moves made in recent memory, gave, ahem, traded Rasmus to the Jays. The folks over at Viva El Birdos are, how do I say this, not amused. Be careful over there.
On the heels of the Rasmus deal, the Giants (fuck them, by the way) are apparently nearing a deal for Carlos Beltran. This is a move that undoubtedly makes that obnoxious franchise better, so I think it's safe to say that we all are also fans of the Diamondbacks, Phillies, Braves, and whoever comes out of the Central for the remainder of the year.
It may benefit us as well, however. Beane recently expressed frustration over the offers he's received for Willingham, DeJesus, and Crisp, but now that two of the three best outfielders are off the market (BJ Upton being the third), and only one of them has actually gone to a contender, we could see interest in our guys increase over the next few days.
At least, I sure as hell hope so. Because up to now, as Brett Narloch so succinctly put it, this has been the worst. trade deadline. ever.
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The Beltran deal, may actually benefit the A's. If other teams feel the Giants are now the team to beat again
they may look towards Oakland to improve.
Wheeler for Beltran is a pretty bad trade for the Giants.
Two months of Beltran really isn’t worth a top 35 prospect.
They must think they have a good chance of re-signing Beltran?
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Jul 27, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, we can make fun of the Giants all we want...
But they’re buyers, yet again, and the A’s are trying to sell ice to Eskimos.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 27, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually I don't really see Billy doing anything.
Maybe he will move Ziggy but that’s about it. There’s a great chance he stands pat.
I think a big factor in this is that they need to fill the following spots for next year:
LF, RF, CF, 1B, and DH
We may well need to re-sign 1-3 of Coco, DDJ, CoJack, Willingham, Matsui in the offseason. There are hardly any good FA OF’s
Just a million ways the OF could be constructed next year, we have no idea if we have anything real in Taylor or Miller, it’s hard to make any moves with so much uncertainty in 2012. At the end of the season Billy will have a better idea of how the plan might unfold going forward. Letting go of potential pieces of next year’s team isn’t worth it unless the return is solid; all indications in this trade market is that nobody is giving up anything decent. So rather keep possibilities open for next year.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2011 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Well you'd think Barton gets another look at 1B.
Post-surgery. Taylor has been absolutely mashing lately and deserves a shot at a corner OF spot next year. Billy’s going to have to wheel and deal I think/hope for an everyday CF & LF. DH can be figured out last.
It'll be 3 old has-beens...
It always is.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 27, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't laugh
but it’s likely our OFs for 2012 will be Sweeney, Mike Taylor, and the re-signed Conor Jackson.
by EstadosUnidos on Jul 27, 2011 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know about that
If Willingham, DeJesus, and Crisp all leave it’s probably a pretty good bet that the A’s would either sign or trade for another outfielder.
Who's the CF?
Sweeney hasn’t done that well this year defensively. Who knows whether it’s from surgery or just SSS, but there really isn’t a true CF in that group.
He's looked pretty spry out there when he's gotten the chance
I wouldn’t put much stock in any SSS defensive numbers.
Jackson will almost certainly be back
He can play 4 positions and is a fav of Melvin
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 28, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
and of Beane, too.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I'd think so. They're a team looking to contend for the playoffs over the next few years and
they’re located in an awesome city.
Much to like for Beltran, assuming the figures match up.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
i dont if they actually plan on resigning him.
their whole team is old basically. not sure if they’re going to invest in him.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
what?
Their entire pitching staff is young.
Torres, Rowand, Shierholtz, Posey, Burriss (yeah he sucks), Crawford, Sandoval, etc…not old.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Rowand is pretty old isn't he?
Crawford and Burriss suck. Torres isn’t that young IIRC
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
Rowand is a black hole of suck
So is Burriss. Crawford needs more time in the minors.
"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
not their entire.
Bumgarner, Lincecum, Cain is. Their bullpen isnt young. Zito is old and overpaid. Sanchez is in between. Torres is old, Rowand is old.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
bullpens are easily replaceable; shoulda clarified that I meant SP
Vogelsong isn’t old either. Their window to contend is now, who cares about 5 years from now? If they keep winning they will be the yankees/phillies west and will be able to buy players whenever they need to 5 years down the road.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2011 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Vogelsong is like 31
and most likely an aberration. And even if that will be their strategy, who says its going to work? They have a lot of young players it’s gunna be hard to hold on to.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Also, you are very correct that Zito is over the hill and over paid
But they can afford that. Those mistakes don’t burn them. They can keep him off the postseason roster and win the WS! And come back next year with the division in a weaker state and coast to the title…
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2011 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
so are you rooting for them now?
haha
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
LOL, hope you detected the jealousy there!
It’s just stupid, if we had signed Zito to that contract it would have been murder for us. For them, they keep writing the checks.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2011 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
well actually it was a hinderance for them.
they just got lucky that low cost players worked out for them. huff was a terrible deal too. they’re actually pretty terrible at trading and free agents. their best players came up through their system, hence why trading Wheeler doesnt make sense.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
They have Lincecum for what, 2 more years?
It’s hard to judge what their contention window is. Makes sense as a win now deal, as long as they actually win now. I still think they’ll get smoked by the Phillies in the playoffs with Lee and Hallday, though.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought they'd get smoked by the Phillies last year too
And the Rangers. They beat Lee and Halladay.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Cody Ross and Edgar Renteria aren't going to become Williams and DiMaggio again
I’m pretty sure in true talent, the Phillies, Yankees, Red Sox, and Texas are all better.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Braves too i think
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Hard to say
I tend to think they’re even.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
If a team can be
“pretty terrible at trading and free agents” and still win the World Series, there’s hope for all those other crappy front offices.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
if you look at their track record, yes.
who were there main contributers last year? home grown players, a random midseason pickup, and low cost free agents that had break out years. not Rowand, Freddy Sanchez, Zito, or DeRosa.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
That's my point.
It tells us that you can have a stupid front office and still win. Which is to say, having a smart GM really isn’t all that important.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Oh i thought there was some sarcasm haha.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
I don't do sarcasm.
Sometimes I play roles to illustrate an alternate view, but that’s as close as I get.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Good to know haha
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Can you do Travis Bickle?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
one of these days i'm going to get organizized
it’s a joke.
by mk on Jul 27, 2011 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Eh
When Sabean tells you he’ll trade you a pitcher, you should be very very afraid.
"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
This is a very good point
Almost every one that he has traded has never amounted to anything. He has always kept the ones he thought were actually good…
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Nathan was not a prospect, he was already a nails bullpen arm, known commodity
Liriano is the only prospect he has traded that has been really good, and he had severe injury issues as well. Still, I’ll give you that.
Foppert, Correia, struggling to remember some of those shitty “prospects” they traded away that never amounted to anything. You could include Vogelsong in that mix as well, traded to the Pirates for Schmidt, been shitty his whole career except this year.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2011 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Foppert was part of the trainwreck of SPs with Ainsworth Bosner that just
didn’t pan out like every team go through.
Todd van Poppel, Don Peters, and David Zancanarro
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Three current Target employees
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Target member associates
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
yup, which is why when Sabean wants to send me a can't-miss SP prospect, I am concerned
He doesn’t trade the ones he thinks will be really good.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it's more the fact that TINSAAPP
than Sabean holding back. It’s very rare for any pitching prospect to succeed. That Sabean’s traded a handful and none have been aces is unsurprising.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
TINSAAPP?
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
There is no such animal asa pitching prospect?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
That's the one!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
The juices coming from the TIN tree.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Correia has had a couple very good years
last season with the padres, this year with pittsburgh.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
yes, he has, but it took him a long time to get there.
Kinda like why I don’t blame Beane for getting rid of Carlos Pena.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2011 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
it's terrible actually.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Is Wheeler really that great?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Supposedly.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
lots of people think he's legit
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Sickels thought he was a B prospect but BA calls him an "elite arm"
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
He's improved a lot this year
he’ll probably move to a B+
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
So the consensus seems to be that he has high upside but he's not a sure thing?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Well yes, like just about all highly drafted HS pitchers
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
Hmmm...in that case maybe they can draft a similar pitcher with the
comp pick. Of course he’ll likely be even riskier than Wheeler is now.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah yes. I forgot.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
SuSlu reported that some team is interested in Ziggy and may be offering something the A's like
So it could happen. Selfishly I hope the A’s keep him around, but I know he’s a specialist in terms of his weakness against lefties. So, if there’s a deal that makes the A’s better they’d be dumb not to do it.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
It would suck cause I like Ziggy
but if it improves the team and Ziggy goes to a place where he gets a better shot to win, that would work.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
yeah, this
he’s probably the guy id least like to see leave. but if we get a decent return, go for it. wouldn’t look right in another uni though.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
Linky?
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jul 27, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
last paragraph here:
LIfe may not be a bowl of cherries.
But I’m currently eating a bowl of cherries, and it’s pretty f**kin’ awesome.
~GreenNGoldSooner
well, that didn't work...stupid hyperlink
non-link:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/26/SP2L1KFC1T.DTL
LIfe may not be a bowl of cherries.
But I’m currently eating a bowl of cherries, and it’s pretty f**kin’ awesome.
~GreenNGoldSooner
Drumbeat.
According to a major-league source, one team has called about reliever Brad Ziegler and found the A’s demands reasonable, making a potential deal possible.
by LoneStranger on Jul 27, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
That Rasmus trade is crazy
cant believe the Cards are that desparate to rid themselves of him.
On an another note – How good has the Toronto GM, Anthopolus, been for them? Getting the SlegnAs to take Vernon Wells contract, flipped Napoli who they didnt need for some bp help which the did need, and now are getting a 24 yr old CF with power and speed and under control for 2 (?) more years!! Gotta like what they are doing up there. Too bad they play with the Yanks and Red Sux.
Why buy good luggage? You only use it when you travel. - Yogi Berra
They locked up Bautista who is anything but a flash in the pan...
They have good young pitching. They fleeced the M’s in the Morrow deal. They fleeced the Braves in the Escobar deal (well maybe “fleeced” is too strong).
They’re doing good things there. There GM is the new Billy Beane.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 27, 2011 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
You have to like Anthopoulos a lot more than you ever liked Beane though.
It’s not just the great trades. It’s also the rebuilding of the scouting department, the drafting of high ceiling players, the lack of making excuses about budget size, the hiring of Dwayne Murphy as hitting instructor, the turning of Brandon Morrow from two pitch reliever to star starter, and probably other stuff I haven’t thought of.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn't like the Napoli for Francisco deal at all.
That was a terrible move. But this trade is magnificent and he got rid of Wells and Rios and got Escobar, another “bad attitude” guy who has flourished, for Alex (lol) Gonzalez….perhaps that’s the new undervalued player? The guy who doesn’t get along with management but is awesome otherwise?
Dont agree
The Jays have a catcher of the future in Arencibia, so Napoli was expendable. Francisco hasnt done much this year, but he is a solid bullpen guy who can pich the 8th or 9th and that is what they needed since Gregg went to Baltimore.
Why buy good luggage? You only use it when you travel. - Yogi Berra
by SoCal As Fan on Jul 27, 2011 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Ya, Francisco is better than he's shown this year unless he's injured
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
A guy who gets on base at a .350 clip and slg's nearly .500 is absolutely more valuable than a reliever.
Would have helped us out huge if we could have gotten Napoli for Wuertz. I agree that he was expendable, but holy hell that’s ridiculously lowballing Napoli. At least get a SP for him, yknow?
True, but we'd probably have to offer Bailey to top Francisco and Bailey was
hurt to start the season. Also we thought we were OK at 1B with Barton.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, my point was that AA could have done better.
Maybe not with us, but certainly there had to have been another team that could have used him as a 1B/C/DH. Seeing a regular masher moved for a reliever hurts my brain so much.
Or they could have just kept him and DH Lind
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
How does a GM turn a two pitch reliever into a starter, besides y'know telling his coaching staff to put him in the starting rotation?
That’s much more to do with the coaches imo.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
If that's all it takes, why can't Beane do that with Fautino?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
im sure there's a very good reason
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
I'm fine with him in the pen now, had he never got hurt and still was starting
that would be great, but he is fine where he is and makes Bailey somewhat expendable for the right deal.
Maybe they don't think he can handle the workload?
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
Maybe, but I fear them trading him to the Jays and his winning the CYA
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
After the A's acquired him, he pretty much instantly had TJS.
I’m pretty sure that time was running low on the A’s either adding him to the 40 man roster or exposing him to the Rule 5. So they moved him to the bullpen to hasten his estimated time of arrival. I think.
Either way, I’ve read nothing to think they’d even consider moving him to the rotation, which greatly angers me.
Again, I'm sure there's a good reason for that
I trust the org on handling pitching. If he could be successful as a full-time starter, throwing 180-200 innings, I’m positive they would stretch him out and try it.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
I'm not sure they would have made Morrow a starter if they'd had him
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
The Escobar extension is also "crazy-good" for the team
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Cot's says Rasmus is under contract for 3 more years after this one
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
i thought it was four more.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
If you include 2011
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
ah ok.
makes sense.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Blue Jays will take the Rays spot in the AL East over the next 3 seasons
While fans across the U.S. pray that the Yanks or Red Sox finally fall from recent grace.
Prediction: DDJ or Conor Jackson get traded by the end of the day….If the Beltran deal goes through
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jul 27, 2011 12:10 PM PDT reply actions
what if we sweep them?
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
They still have more major and minor league talent
than the A’s could accrue in the foreseeable future.
Yeah
you’re really looking at 4 teams with very good futures in that division.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
haha I just want to see Beane make a move!
I want to see Beane move back into the Top 10 GMs in the league…..maybe a series of great moves at this deadline could help. Or maybe only Brad Pitt can save him now
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jul 27, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Did you see the blurb about how he'd been underwhelmed by offers
for Willingham, DeJesus, etc.? I doubt anything happens until a team gets desperate. Agh, saying the words, “Unless a team gets desperate,” in regards to guys like Conor Jackson really makes me feel dirty inside.
Yes, but Willingham and DDJ are different caliber of player. If Beane is asking for the same thing for
Jackson, he needs to be checked into a Psych ward
by theblackpearl on Jul 27, 2011 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd think we'd want a lot for Willingham as a Type A...maybe more than his trade value
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, Jackson makes it interesting
But still, I’m not sure if “37th best prospect” qualifies as “something.”
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd trade Jackson for any team's 37th best prospect
He’s going to be non-tendered, or worse, tendered.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don't mind him as a backup
Just not as a starter.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed, but he's expensive
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorta
but not overall. It’s not like teams are going to be falling over each other to sign him, either. Like BF posted above, makes no sense to deal someone away when you don’t yet know what holes to fill.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
So you want to non-tender him and then offer him $500K or something?
OK I’m fine with that
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess at worst, Barton plays 1st again.
So sure.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, now that we know he's been injured,
I’m kinda looking forward to a healthy Barton at 1B.
by LoneStranger on Jul 27, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I wouldn't mind having Jackson as a backup if they could do that.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
I'm sure Kyli has said something similar to that at some point.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Actually, Beltran doesn't make them that much better.
A few weeks back ESPN projections looked at the teams interested, and if he was added to the giants like two weeks ago, they only improve by .1 wins, and playoffs chances go up like 2%.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Those projections are just that. With his talent, if he has a stretch like Pennington, that will be worth more than
one win over whoever they have now. Those are better for a whole year, moreso, than the stretch drive.
by theblackpearl on Jul 27, 2011 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
Plus, since they’re likely to make the playoffs, Beltran performs extremely well in said playoffs. Could be an excellent gamble, for them.
"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
maybe,
odds say he only improves their chances of winning the world series by a few points, but logically i agree with you. im just not sure he will be dramatically better.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
not really.
their outfield isnt as terrible as some others, and the projections simulate these things like hundreds of thousands of times, it factors in hot streaks. Or on the flip side, he could get injured again and be worth nothing.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Banking on a player to go on an incredible hot streak is not the way deals should be made.
Wheeler was a pretty significant overpay for the GIants.
I think that they need an SS or 2B more than an OF
I mean, their OF isn’t that bad, Torres, Shierholtz, Rowand, etc. are decent.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Isn't Rowand pretty bad?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah but he is serviceable.
He’s not gonna kill you out there.
They can waste a position, their pitching is very good.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
He's been alright this year. About average.
It’d be cool if they re-signed Beltran and then traded away Gary Brown to the A’s or something.
Or if we had just signed Brown after drafting him
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Keppinger is non-terrible
But Mike Fontenot?
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I assume they did it for the postseason, not the regular season
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
And the Met's may send money
mlbtraderumors MLB Trade Rumors
RT @Joelsherman1: Hearing Mets will pay $4M of Beltran’s contract. But that is from executive outside the trade, not directly involved
BTW Mad men is on netflix now.
yess
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Sherlock is on netflix as well!
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
I watched the first part last night.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
Why just the OF, what if they bring back all 25 players?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Is there anyone on the 25 man roster right now that WON'T be back next year?
I’d say Jackson, Willingham, and Crisp will be done… replaced by Taylor, Carter/Barton, and a shitty over the hill OF.
Oh baby… playoffs here we come!
by Brett Narloch on Jul 27, 2011 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Ahem, allow me
WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!!
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
We will probably be horrible if that happens.
I wouldn’t mind Crisp in LF but the rest can get lost.
I just saw the Rasmus thing.
It wouldn’t be that big of a mess if they weren’t trading 4 years of cost-controlled Rasmus for TWO MONTHS of Jackson.
yeah they fucking hate that guy
seriously how do you not respect tony la russa? The guy has earned respect. Plus…ARF. ARF is awesome.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
blah blah clubhouse cancer blahhhh
Seriously. I live about 90 miles north of St. Louis, so about half of my friends are Cardinals fans (the other half Cubs fans, but they aren’t really my friends for obvious reasons).
I shit you not, this showed up on my Facebook feed today:
Bro! Colby can’t hit, throw run or play good defense, yes he ha speed but don’t steal, he gets to a ball in the out field but he don’t dive, his throwing are is horrible and not accurate, he hits like shit! Enough said !! The dude is garbage!!! Yes he’s young and has sweet sun glasses but that’s about it!I left the typos for your entertainment. From the same guy in response to a friend telling him this was a bad deal:
Really?? I don’t think so, we got corey Patterson and dotel and rpivisjy or how ever u spell his damn name for week ass rasmus and suck ass Trevor miller.Notice that he doesn’t even mention Jackson… and he’s happy that they traded him for Patterson. It was incredible to watch this conversation unfold. Usually it’s the Cubs fans making fools of themselves, not the Cardinals fans.
Corey Patterson
LOLOLOLOL
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah seriously.
wow.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
It is so incredibly frustrating seeing hitters like Napoli, Rasmus, and YEscobar
Practically given away for subpar pitching. And the A’s not being a part of any deal.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
To be fair, the Jays didn't acquire Yunel Escobar for subpar pitching.
Alex Gonzalez was part of that deal, and he was playing like an All Star that year. But yeah, I wish Oakland had been in on the Napoli deal, and the Rasmus fiasco is a complete joke.
Everyone says this when there is a seemingly one-sided trade. GM's like particular players for various reasons
how do we know the A’s didn’t offer players they felt were better, the other GM, may not have felt that way.
by theblackpearl on Jul 27, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
While that's true
All three players mentioned had been involved in trade rumors for months saying how their club was unhappy with them (and in some cases shopping them).
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Is the biggest A's related news during the week before the trade deadline going to be...
that we signed Sonny Gray? Really?
It does!
Someday her tombstone will read,
"Here Lies MissOakland Barton. Hot baseball wife, beloved friend, defender of aprons." --Kyli
What else are you expecting. That's probably more important than any trade not involving
Trevor or Gio
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
OT - Mariners finally won a game
9-2 vs. the Yankees.
Reaction on LL is amusing.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jul 27, 2011 2:13 PM PDT reply actions
the Rangers’ focus will not change. They are talking to the Padres about closer Heath Bell and setup man Mike Adams, sources say. They also are interested in Athletics closer Andrew Bailey and setup man Grant Balfour, though Bailey is a distinct longshot.
Please keep both Bailey and Balfour.
Please trade them for Michael Young, Josh Hamilton, Nelson Cruz, and $100 million!
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jul 27, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll pass on the $100M!
As long as they work with the BoSox to get SJ assigned to us.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Shhh - that's my back up position!
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jul 27, 2011 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Why? They are relievers.
They are easily replaceable. If a team offers a good value for any reliever (besides maybe FDLS, but only because I’d like to keep him and turn him into a starter), I’d take it.
Above average relievers are easily replaceable.
Grant Balfour is borderline elite and Andrew Bailey might be the best reliever in baseball.
Really? How do you figure this?
FWIW Bailey would be 23rd amongst relievers in SIERA had he pitched enough innings to qualify and Balfour’s 51st. I’m not getting how they’re all that special.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Listen I don't know what SIERA is or what it entails
even though I enjoy stats as well. But if the point you’re making is that Andrew Baileys grow on trees… well then I cannot be convinced. Without sounding too Joe Morgan-y… that dude shuts the door.
*unless Josh Hamilton sticks his foot in it.
I'm not saying Baileys grow on trees but I am saying that he's not unique.
What makes him any better than Sergio Romo, Johnny Venters, Mike Adams, Matt Thornton, Mariano Rivera, Ryan Madson, Jonathan Papelbon, Joakim Soria or Koji Uehara, for instance?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, Rivera is the best reliever in history
but the rest of em, yeah
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
FDLS could step in and start closing games, and the A's would not lose a step.
I wouldn’t have a problem with that, either.
when devine is on, he's great. when he's bad, it's embarassing.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Same with FDLS.
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Jul 28, 2011 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
devine threw a ball behind a guy. not on purpose. it was bad.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Relievers are so hard to figure out because of sss
But off the eye test it goes:
1. Mariano
MASSIVE GAP HERE
2. Bailey
SMALLER GAP HERE
3. Everyone else
Also,
using 20 innings of a guy’s ‘SIERA’ to determine his true talent level? Really? Career, he strikes out over a guy per inning, and his ERA+ is 241. He’s as good as they come.
If we were offered any reliever in baseball for him, one for one, I wouldn’t deal him (even if you took money and team control out of the equation). Except maybe Venters or Kimbrel.
Just because they are fungible doesn't mean
they don’t have value.
Cash is easily replaceable, too. Doesn’t mean you should give it away.
(It does, however, mean you should be happy to do trades with it provided you get a decent return, which is how I feel about Bailey and Balfour.)
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Agreed, they better not deal Bailey unless it's a ridiculous offer.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Jul 27, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
if it's a top 5 ranger prospect.. then it's worth doing...
Actually… with the rangers… a top 10 prospect might do it.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 27, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Engel Beltre?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
The guy's been awful in AA so far. He's only 21, but he's been really bad
He doesn’t walk and I don’t really trust the A’s to develop hitters. I’d take any of their pitchers, though. I would actually prefer that if the A’s are going to make deals with the Rangers, they target pitchers like Erlin or Perez. Since the Rangers always have so much damn offense, it’d be nice to kick the legs out of their future rotation.
I doubt we get Perez but Bailey for Erlin sounds OK
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Why not?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Looking at the schedule so far...
There have been 2 or 3 games where Bailey pitching for the Rangers would’ve really helped the Rangers beat the A’s.
Oliver blew a game where Bailey could have been used. Bailey actually blew a game to the Rangers. But otherwise, him being a Ranger would not have hurt the A’s when playing the Rangers at all.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 28, 2011 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions
But if they trade players to us they're helping as much or more, no?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Bailey is a certainty, prospects are not certainties.
We are definitely helping them, they might help us. Doesn’t seem worthwhile unless we know for sure.
Bailey isn't a certainty either
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
He's just a reliever.
Relievers have to have amazing years, like the best year of their career every year, to post 2 WAR. I’d rather have an average risk, high ceiling prospect than a reliever pretty much every day.
Me too
But if we are going to deal within the division, I’m going to want to raid the other team, if its not in the same division/league then the deal can be less.
I don't understand why we shouldn't just trade for the
best players we can
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
In Bailey's case, we need to be picky.
Gio, Bailey and Weeks are our 3 most valuable assets as of right now, organizationally, imo. Literally anyone else and I’d agree with you, yes we need to get the best possible players we can in return for them, but not for one of the cornerstones of the franchise.
He's a reliever...
therefore it’s incredibly difficult for him to be a cornerstone. Seriously, how much damage could Bailey even do against the A’s over a season? We’d probably see him like, five or six times over a full season. Just make a fair trade, the best available for him.
You and I know that relievers are not that valuable, statistically
But their titles are certainly held in a very high regard amongst GMs.
Texas want to buy and have nice things in their cupboard, we want to sell and basically a bare cupboard. Lets flip the balance as much as we can as it benefits us a lot later on.
Nobody's saying don't make the best deal
you can. In fact I’m saying don’t turn down a better deal from Texas than you can get from say…Philadelphia just because Texas is a divisional rival
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Unless he means Leonys and Perez
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Erlin and Perez are pretty much interchangeable in my eyes.
Perez is younger by six months and will have a handful of starts in AAA by the time Erlin joins him, but that’s about it. At AA, they have posted FIPs of about 3.50. Different styles, but similar results. Sickels gave them both a B+ and ranked them second and third overall for Texas.
I think Perez has way more upside
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
That seems to be the consensus, but it's not like it's night and day.
Erlin’s posted K:BB ratio’s of like 9:1 during his stints at A, A+ and AA. The only problem is that he allows a bit too many flyballs, though that would hurt him in Arlington way more than it would in the Coliseum. Though they’re basically the same size, Erlin gets the label of the undersized lefty. They’re both excellent prospects.
Perez has the makings of 3 plus pitches though
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
You know what he doesn't have?
A 9:1 K/BB ratio. Scouting reports I’ve read do say he has two plus pitches (90 MPH fastball with excellent control, and a huge 12-6 curveball). Since they’re basically the same size and age (a very minor edge to Perez in both categories), I think Erlin’s performance does more than enough to put them in the same class.
I'm with the consensus on this one. I'm just not that big a
believer in minor league stats like K/BB trumping scouting reports.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah.
The fly ball tendencies are a real concern, though I think the scouting reports punish Erlin for being small, perhaps unfairly. Trust me, I’d be happy if the A’s could get Perez for Bailey. I’m just saying, it wouldn’t be the worst thing if they “settled” for Erlin, since he’s really good, too.
Oh no, I dont disagree
Erlin is a good prospect, I just think Perez is better.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
One thing to keep in mind...
Scouting reports are invariably dated material by the time they reach the fans.
Stats are much more current info. His 2011 performance could lead to a better scouting report pre-2012.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Maybe, but unless he added a new pitch or now has
Maddux control I’m going with the guy that had the better stuff a year ago.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 6:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, Erlin's SO/BB are definitely in Maddux territory.
Maddux’s minor league numbers: 5.7 K/9; 2.1 BB/9; 2.1 SO/BB; 0.3 HR/9; 2.86 ERA
Erlin’s minor league numbers: 9.6 K/9; 1.1 BB/9; 8.57 SO/BB; 0.9 HR/9; 2.75 ERA
It’s hard to overstate the improvements Maddux made in the majors, but Erlin’s numbers are stupid good right now.
I'm fine with trading Bailey for Erlin mainly because
I don’t think Perez would be available, but I’d still take Perez if I had a choice. I can see how someone who places more emphasis on minor league BB numbers would make a different choice.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
In that case I'd make the deal before
Daniels sobered up
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Awesome!
Did he do Danks for McCarthy and Adrian Gonzalez for Adam Eaton?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
"I don't trust [x team] to develop [a certain type of player]"
is a fallacy. Felix Pie’s failings don’t make Starlin Castro any less likely to succeed, the Giants hadn’t developed a hitter in 15 years but that didn’t have any effect on Posey, etc.
by BWH on Jul 27, 2011 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Since you feel that way,
the A’s would like to talk to you about some of their best hitting prospects!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
How is it a fallacy?
It’s my opinion. If I had said, “The A’s don’t develop raw hitters,” it’d be different, but that isn’t what I said. I don’t trust the A’s to do a lot of things I want them to do.
I suppose the phrasing of your statement
absolves it of being a fallacy. But in general, “they haven’t done it, therefore they can’t do it” is fallacious. In fact, I believe the concept of any team “developing” talent better than another is illogical. I just think some teams find it better than others.
Would depend who it is...
Love Bailey at the back of the bullpen, I would have to be wowed to deal him.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Jul 27, 2011 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Raul Ibanez?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Not ridiculous enough?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha, that would be ridiculous on the other side, yes.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Jul 27, 2011 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Magnuson up, Devine to Sacramento
@susanslusser
Magnuson up, Devine optioned out. #Athletics
6 minutes ago via Twittelator
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jul 27, 2011 2:38 PM PDT reply actions
They must think Devine's control is really messed up
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
seriously.
i think the a’s mindset right now is, “man they suck for the A’s…let’s send them to the Rivercats and build up hope for everyone again!”
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
It IS really messed up.
Not quite sure why. I’m sure Romanick knows something, though. He always does.
No harm I guess
Better than him getting raked up here
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2011 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Well he came out of that game with the back injury
And clearly hasn’t been the same since, I was kind of expecting him to be put on DL…
Kiper+Fosse=Mute
by CorpseOfChavez on Jul 27, 2011 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
If it's physical, I would think they would send him to the DL,
If it’s more mental/mechanical, then, yeah, a trip to Sacramento would be good.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jul 27, 2011 3:14 PM PDT reply actions
reply fail - meant as a reply to dan
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jul 27, 2011 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Cards still after Bell.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
"Buddy"
"I wouldn't honestly be surprised if there was a Derek-Jeter’s-d**k-shaped Popsicle concession at Yankee Stadium."- emperor nobody
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 27, 2011 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions
"Jay"
"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King
"Ricky"
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Jul 28, 2011 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Tinker
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Chance
"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King
"David"
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 28, 2011 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions
The pennant is ours!!
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Jul 27, 2011 3:40 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
A high schooler. I like it.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it's cool he's going for it
If he goes to college, he may never make the draft again. Nice that he’s giving it one shot to live his dream of playing in MLB. Also nice that the A’s agreed to pay for his college education if/when he decides to do that.
Do you know if we signed Boras’ kid? That is a late round signing that we gotta lock in.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2011 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Boras's kid signed
Also, (I think) all high school kids which sign with the MLB get money for college
i dunno if it's a requirement.
but im sure a lot of mlb teams do it.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Beane should have tried to get Rasmus
We totally could have gotten him without givng up a whole lot that we need.
CT just said Pence to the Phillies
On the radio. Can’t name his source on the air
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
by mikev on Jul 27, 2011 5:02 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
NO
I want him. \dream
Someday her tombstone will read,
"Here Lies MissOakland Barton. Hot baseball wife, beloved friend, defender of aprons." --Kyli
With a dash of Curry.
Just to warm up the winter nights.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Not like THAT!
He’s an awesome player.
Someday her tombstone will read,
"Here Lies MissOakland Barton. Hot baseball wife, beloved friend, defender of aprons." --Kyli
by MissOakland on Jul 28, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL
I do sometimes like baseball players because of how they play baseball, I swear.
Someday her tombstone will read,
"Here Lies MissOakland Barton. Hot baseball wife, beloved friend, defender of aprons." --Kyli
by MissOakland on Jul 28, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
BTW, I just saw Sweeney's HR this morning.
He hit it where we were sitting! I like to call it StrawberryMargaritaLand.
I just watched it too!
Obviously we need to go sit in SML all the time so he hits more HRs
Someday her tombstone will read,
"Here Lies MissOakland Barton. Hot baseball wife, beloved friend, defender of aprons." --Kyli
by MissOakland on Jul 28, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
But... he didn't hit one the day we sat there.
Instead, we broke Ross. :( And they got their asses beat.
The actual game was not fun at all.
Someday her tombstone will read,
"Here Lies MissOakland Barton. Hot baseball wife, beloved friend, defender of aprons." --Kyli
by MissOakland on Jul 28, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
this.
and the margarita making was hilarious.
Someday her tombstone will read,
"Here Lies MissOakland Barton. Hot baseball wife, beloved friend, defender of aprons." --Kyli
by MissOakland on Jul 28, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
The Black Rock Desert is an awesome playa.
"I wouldn't honestly be surprised if there was a Derek-Jeter’s-d**k-shaped Popsicle concession at Yankee Stadium."- emperor nobody
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 28, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Latest rumor was Dom Brown...
The A’s are missing out on two really nice pieces….
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Willingham just got a cortisone shot in his neck a couple days ago!
Plus Pence is going to stay in Philly longer than Willingham would.
So I don’t see it as missing out; more like never had a chance.
Beane’s theory was sound… acquire Willingham an DeJesus and if the team struggles those players should become potent trade chips. Course the guys he land have the worst seasons of their lives.
The monster at the end of this blog.
That's not true! Ben Sheets worked out perfectly!
/alternate universe
I bleed green and gold!!! (my doctor is worried)
Yeah, I can't be upset about "missing out" on Dom Brown.
He would have only been available to the A’s for Cahill or Gonzalez. And the A’s really didn’t have a Brown-like player to have offered up for Pence. They really never had a chance for either of them.
Here's an idea... who says "No" and why?
Willingham to the Angels for Peter Bourjos.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I wouldn't do that if I were the Angels. Bourjos is better than Willingham right now
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2011 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure... according to WAR
But Willingham’s bat shows more life than Vernon Wells, Bobby Abreu and Russell Branyan. The Angels are also real big believers in Mike Trout. Maybe they rushed Trout a little bit this year but he’s all but locked into the CF job next year. Wells will still be on the books in 2012, as will Hunter and that pushes Bourjos back to AAA or the bench.
Sweeten with Willingham’s probable Type A status (yes, I think FA compensation will exist in the next CBA) and how critical is Bourjos to the Angels’ success in 2011?
(I’m not sure I like the idea myself, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to half-ass the discussion!)
The monster at the end of this blog.
Even if they view Bourjos as expendable, they can get something
better than Willingham back
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 6:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I sure as hell wouldn't say "No" as an A's fan.
If they’re moving forward with Trout, and they consider Bourjos expendable (it’d be wasteful to keep him on the bench), that’d be a “fuckin’ A!” deal for the A’s. Seriously, if trading Willingham to the Angels could fill the A’s CF for the next four or five years, I’d be more than ecstatic.
Let's flip the idea 180
I laid out why LA might agree to the deal… are there any holes to my reasoning on their regard?
If you were running the Angels, would you like the deal?
The monster at the end of this blog.
Not really. I don't see it happening.
Abreu has a $9M option, which they shouldn’t exercise. Branyan’s probably gone, too. That leaves a spot open at DH, which could house Hunter or Wells. That would leave their outfield looking like Hunter/Wells, Bourjos and Trout.
Plus, Bourjos is one of those guys that Scioscia loves. The speedy, scrappy, guys that like to bunt and shit, but he’s actually good at what he does.
On a similar note,
the Braves are rumored to have discussed Willingham and Crisp, among others. If they wanted either of them, would you take Jordan Schafer? I have no idea if he’s available or not, but at one point, he was a highly touted prospect. He hasn’t exactly flourished in Atlanta, though, and now he’s 24.
I had the same thought
Because it seems like he’s fallen out of favor big time in ATL. But then I looked up his numbers, and…yikes. I dunno. Even if his defense is elite (I have no idea if it is), those are some pretty disturbing numbers.
by mk on Jul 28, 2011 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions
FG has him at 0.8 WAR over 220 AB, which would be good for around 2 WAR, which is average.
Considering his minor league track record, I’d expect a bit better on offense though.
Well
his minor league track record was fine through 2008, but fairly ugly after that. But the youth is encouraging.
And yeah, average is probably pretty reasonable for a 24-year-old in the bigs. I mean, it’s probably worth a flier for a Crisp or Willingham. But I’m also on the “If we’re not gonna compete I don’t really care who’s out there” train. I’m an upside whore.
by mk on Jul 28, 2011 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd take Schafer for Crisp but I'd rather have the draft picks
for Willingham even if I had to risk offering arbitration. But I’m an upside whore too.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 6:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Angels say no.
The “why” is that the Angels as an organization are just very averse to trading. I don’t know why, but the Angels hardly trade at all. Under both Stoneman and Reagins they make about one trade a year, and it’s almost always to receive a single big-name player. They don’t like to swap small pieces here and there like Beane and others do.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
So the Angels stand pat and try to catch the Rangers with what they have on hand?
The monster at the end of this blog.
That's my guess.
Either they make a big deal like Haren or Teixeira, or they do nothing.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Plus, even if they did deal, they sure wouldn't do it with us
I can’t see why they’d improve a division rival. Bourjos would obviously be our starting CFer for several years to come.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 28, 2011 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I can't even remember the last time the Angels
traded within the division. 1999?
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Yes, unless you count the purchase of Marcus Gwyn from the A's
in 2006 according to BB-Ref.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow! I don't have that one on my trade list.
Is there a technical difference between purchasing a player and trading a player for cash considerations?
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
If you want to check your trade list this link may be for you
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
When we got Olivares, yup
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 28, 2011 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't see anything on that
msnbc said 20 minutes ago that they are unlikely to deal him. Plus, Dominic Brown is playing right now.
Shit. I was hoping it would be us.
Maybe Willy to the Pirates or Braves? Or have they made moves for upgrading their OF situations?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
Tale of Two Cities?
Let’s hope we don’t have to look a story in the Chron that reads along these lines:
* SF, Eyeing Possible Return to World Series, adds a Slugger in Swap for Minor Leaguer.
* OAK’s Wealthy Owners Dump Starting Outfield & Pitchers for Cash & Wannabes. Ugh!
Surely the San Francisco media would never
slant a story in such a way that it makes SF look good and Oakland look bad.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Maybe you don't do sarcasm, but irony, you do.
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jul 28, 2011 12:42 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I deny it!
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
It was the best of times--and, ironically--the worst of times
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
Tale of Two Cities?
OkayJay81:
Not exactly. I’m saying sign the best of them to contracts, and exercise some patience while the team jells. It takes time, in any business, including baseball—and it might just now be starting to happen.
Ther's no reply button on my keyboard.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I'd rather have better talent.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
Brewers traded Wil Nieves to the Braves for One Dollar
We couldn’t have offered Two Dollars….or at One Dollar and Fifty Cents?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
"Dollar Dayz" at the MLB Store.
Will they soon have a 2-for-1 sale?
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
He would actually have been a competent backup
That said, while I don’t believe in cERA much, damn; maybe we should keep Powell after all.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=cahiltr01&year=2011&t=p#catch
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 28, 2011 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Braden, too.
Not as huge a gap, but still noticeable.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Your link is 2011 only.
Over his career the gap is far smaller, though Cahill still does better with Powell over all. Anderson and Braden also do better with Powell over all. Gio, on the other hand, does better with Suzuki.
(Which brings us back to not believing in cERA much….)
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Yeah, I know
The differences in K and BB are noticeable, like you said.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 28, 2011 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
I like Powell as a person. As a ball player he seems over weight and powerless at the plate.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
Does it really matter what they weigh?
He has been a damn good back-up this year
Someday her tombstone will read,
"Here Lies MissOakland Barton. Hot baseball wife, beloved friend, defender of aprons." --Kyli
by MissOakland on Jul 28, 2011 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, he should take his job more seriously for being a pro that gets paid.
That’s all. Although no one ever said you had to be in shape to play baseball. Powell started hot. What has he done lately?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
Wait, really?
You don’t have to be “skinny” to be a good baseball player. That could be how they are built. It worked for Bengie Molina, Prince Fielder and for awhile Pablo Sandoval.
Someday her tombstone will read,
"Here Lies MissOakland Barton. Hot baseball wife, beloved friend, defender of aprons." --Kyli
by MissOakland on Jul 28, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
And Babe Ruth
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
He was alright, I guess.
Someday her tombstone will read,
"Here Lies MissOakland Barton. Hot baseball wife, beloved friend, defender of aprons." --Kyli
by MissOakland on Jul 28, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Not much of a jeans salesman though
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
David Wells had a nice career
"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King
If we're talking pitchers don't forget Bartolo Colon
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Or CC Sabathia
"Never have a motto, that's what I always say" - Me
http://marcel-oehler.marcellosendos.ch/comics/ch/1986/05/19860506.gif
"I Hate SF" - The Chosen One.
Or Rich Garces!
Master of the "ZOMG he looks like he can throw 100MPH blazing fastball slow curve.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The difference there though is those guys actually can hit.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
He's never going to be a slugger
but he is a decent back-up which is exactly what he should be
Someday her tombstone will read,
"Here Lies MissOakland Barton. Hot baseball wife, beloved friend, defender of aprons." --Kyli
by MissOakland on Jul 28, 2011 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Recker looks worth a shot.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
I won't argue that.
Someday her tombstone will read,
"Here Lies MissOakland Barton. Hot baseball wife, beloved friend, defender of aprons." --Kyli
by MissOakland on Jul 28, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Seriously, backup catcher is the least of the problems on the team.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Yeah, this.
Can we worry about the starting catcher?
Someday her tombstone will read,
"Here Lies MissOakland Barton. Hot baseball wife, beloved friend, defender of aprons." --Kyli
by MissOakland on Jul 28, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Hahaha agreed.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
Wrong. If we had a great backup catcher, we'd be the shit!
What else could possibly use improvement?
Statistically
Powell has a 0.2 WAR in 94 PA’s. The best backup C is David Ross, who has a 1.2 WAR in 97 PA, but he’s having an unbelievable season (1.2 is what Suzuki has, in 342 PA).
Brett Hayes has a 0.7 in 82 PA, so, the best we could do would be adding 0.5 wins. Its not the backup thats the problem, its the starter.
If we had Iannetta or Napoli we’d be doubling the WAR Suzuki has right now, and both those players have been or are available. You really have to wonder how long the team will continue to use the defensive argument when our C is barely a slg%-slanted 650 WAR. We can certainly do better than this. Suzuki is quickly turning into the catcher edition of Bobby Crosby.
It's not clear that Napoli can actually catch, although
I’m pretty sure I’d take that chance
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
I cannot believe we found another Crosby.
Its the exact same promising start then massive dropoff along with the same excuses too “oh his defense is good” meanwhile he has the absolute worst approach at the plate. It sucks that the A’s aren’t even acknowledging it, like they did with Barton and Kouz.
It's that long term contract that Suzuki has
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
we really shoulda just taken the arb risk with him.
No reason to offer that contract at that time.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 29, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Working for Panda again this year.
But that’s because he’s slimmed down from orca fat to just fat.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
It's not that you don't have to be in shape.
You do have to be in shape. Our culture just has a weird perception of what counts as “in shape” that doesn’t always align with actual good physical health.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Maybe i'm too judgmental, maybe he's still carrying his paternity weight.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
I think powell's extreme slowness also makes him look less in shape.
It’s possible that shedding some weight or turning that fat into muscle could help his speed, but I doubt it.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 28, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Powell has a life-threatening condition
that will need a liver transplant sometime in his lifetime. He may take his job very seriously and still be overweight.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Wow, didn't know that.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
I thought doctors also advised him to like quit altogether
though I might be remembering that wrong.
by mk on Jul 28, 2011 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Fukudome heading to Cleveland...
Another possible Willingham suitor is gone. They’re giving the Cubs 1 upper level prospect and 1 lower level prospect.
Willingham’s WAR is better than Fuku’s this season and would get the Indians draft picks after the year.
1) Either the A’s dropped the ball again, or
2) Everyone is worried about the health of Willingham
He's also owed more money than Willingham and the Cubs are eating it to get the prospects
Willingham probably has like $2M left. Even if the A’s ate all of it, that doesn’t get you much prospect-wise. A couple low-level guys, maybe.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 28, 2011 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Willingham and Crisp are still an upgrade over Buck and Kearns. Indians may not be totally out yet.
Also let’s wait and see what the Cubs actually got.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Apparently the Cubs are getting Abner Abreu and Carlton Smith.
I’m glad we didn’t trade Crisp or Willingham for that
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Abner Abreu is a funny name.
Might be worth having him just for that. But if we’re considering names, we should keep Willingham.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
A couple of notes.
1) Kouz is crushing in AAA
2) Taylor could see some playing time if Willingham is traded
3) Seriously, why not bring up Miller and see what he has? Yes, it’s a long shot that he’ll amount to anything, but what good is he with an OPS of 1.100 is AAA?
I'm with you on Miller, but I think we need to trade Crisp or Willingham first
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions
There's only 3 positions
We simply cant bring up both Taylor and Miller…unless we trade both Hammer and Coco.
Yes but I'm OK with bringing up Miller before Taylor
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Would you rather have Sizmore or Kouzmanoff?
I think they’re probably equal talent, though Kouz’s value is down, and Sizemore is younger and cheaper.
Kouz is a FA this year, right?
If so then it is a moot point because no way Kouz is coming back to the A’s after being sent down.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 28, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow! You guys really didn't like him.
"Never have a motto, that's what I always say" - Me
http://marcel-oehler.marcellosendos.ch/comics/ch/1986/05/19860506.gif
"I Hate SF" - The Chosen One.
His salary was such that he would clear waivers.
Which wasn’t true of the other options.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
He was always a "hacker" but came from SD following a great defensive season,
and had another one for us. Then…This year he was terrible at 3B. Just terrible. No one knows exactly why he was this bad. But he was. And it’s not like he started laying off bad sliders in exchange.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Willingham to the Braves rumor
seems to be heating up again….
"The whole world is fueled by bullshit… What? The kid asked me for advice on his science fair project so I’m giving it to him." - shitmydadsays
The Braves didn't want to give up any of their Top 3 or 4 Prospects for Beltran
However, I think we can get maybe a Top 12 from their Farm for Willingham. And they have a great Farm. I’m guessing we would land Todd Cunningham, OF, who is Ranked as their #13 prospect and with a “B-” ranking by Sickels. Damn, The Braves are loaded with prospects. Perfect target for us.
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jul 28, 2011 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Cunningham sounds a lot like Ryan Sweeney with maybe more BB and less defense
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
We should trade a different OF for Cunningham.
I want to have compliant pork and clever pork at the same time.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Best historical porks in baseball
in no particular order…
Tom Needham
Ed Pinkham
John Stoneham
Art Twineham
James Landingham
William VanLandingham
Herm Winningham
Mike Windham
Ryan Topham
Jed Stringham
Brandon Grabham
Mitch Canham
Hugh Willingham
Jordan Cheatham
Wesley Cunningham
Kendall Burnham
Daniel Kickham
Nicholas Kingham
and the ultimate pork…
Mike Ham
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
Not to mention Eddie Bacon, Pork Chop Pough, Piggy Ward, Melvin Pigg and Victor Pigg
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
If we could find someone named Wingham,
We would be able to talk about “when pigs fly”
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
What about Beckham?
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
haha actually yeah that is a good comparison
lets hope we get someone else then
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jul 28, 2011 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Sweeney isn't useless, but I'm not sure I wouldn't rather have the draft picks
I’d probably risk Willingham accepting arb, take the picks and go over-slot rather than trade for someone like Cunningham, but I’m not as risk averse as some other people.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
But we don't get the picks then, do we?
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 28, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
No but we get Josh Willingham
on a one year contract for like, 7 or 8 million. That’s better than the like, 38th and 50th overall draft picks.
You must like Willingham a lot more than I do
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
You must love 2 WAR players a lot more than I do
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I think a 2 year $10M extension is possible.
Teams will shy away from signing him in the FA market because they have to give up 2 picks.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 28, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I think he'll be cheap as well.
Maybe not 2/10 cheap, but if the offers for him are indeed “underwhelming” now, I can’t imagine anybody will be excited to give up a draft pick for him.
Hmmm....let's see....
2011 A’s Pitching Staff — 17 WAR pace (11.9 WAR now)
Starting lineup — 18 WAR (2 WAR x 9 players)
Bench 5 WAR
Total 40 WAR
In 2010 40 WAR would have put a team in 17th place among all MLB teams — basically the Marlins. The lowest ranking playoff team was the Phillies with 46.2 WAR.
The Marlins went 80-82, so basically you’re a .500 team. If you pay 3.75M per WAR you have a Team Payroll of $150 million.
I’m not getting the attraction of this strategy
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
So they're going to be 1.5 times as good as 2011?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Without Brett and Dallas?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
the 2011 WAR number
only includes 101 innings out of those two, 83 of which were subpar from Anderson who struggled due to his injury. And Dallas Braden could come back
Yes but who's going to make up the
missing 8 WAR if not them?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Improvements from Cahill and Gio
more innings from Bailey, Fuentes can’t get any worse. Besides that, the A’s have always found a way to assemble good pitching.
Relievers don't compile much in the way of WAR.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
I still think it wouldn't be hard
to improve over Anderson’s 83 innings of 97 ERA+, and Fuentes has been below replacement level. Improvements there could be worth around 2. Gio and Cahill could each improve 1 or 2. More innings from Bailey could net you 1. These are things you have to hope for when assembling a pro baseball team.
Well you could hope for things like
that or you could just jettison everyone and get better players.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I greatly prefer my plan.
Greatly. My hopes are totally reasonable. It’s not like I predicted Cliff Pennington to turn into Troy Tulowitzki. It’s much better to hope for what I hoped for in that statement than it is to roll over and decide to lose for another 4 years.
My problem with your plan is that you most likely will
lose for another four years and never really have any hope for a consistent playoff run.
True you might get lucky one year and sneak into the playoffs, but it won’t be sustained. You’d have no chance of duplicating the 1999-2006 teams.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Get optimistic
Health and development goes well, and your 2013 A’s rotation is:
Gio – Cahill – Anderson – Ross – Sonny Gray.
That’s not an entirely unreasonable expectation. That’ll play.
40% of your starting rotation
has significant injury concerns, and 20% of it has never thrown a professional pitch.
I'd rather not base Oakland's
next four years on optimism. I don’t see enough talent anywhere in the system to put together a competitive team.
And I'd rather not base the next four years on
concession. And I’d rather not use every valuable long term chip the A’s have to acquire a bunch of guys who could turn into a bunch of Sean Gallaghers and Dan Meyers. I suppose we disagree on the talent in the A’s organization, then.
I thought Brett Anderson was
such an injury concern that we had to rebuild again because of him? And Carlos Gonzalez has a career .725 OPS on the road.
Oh god, this again?
He’s got a .985 OPS at home. Lots of players do better at home than on the road. Seriously, don’t use this argument unless you’re going to stick by it and convince me that there’s anybody in the A’s system you’d rather have in CF going forward than Carlos Gonzalez.
Anderson’s an injury risk but he’s a dominant pitcher. And when they acquired him, he was a dominant prospect without a history of injuries (except for blisters IIRC).
These are the exact type of players you want to target during rebuilding process. It was dumb to trade them, but here we are. If you want an annually competitive team, you’re going to have to sacrifice a couple of years of suck to get it. I’m willing to do that.
It was dumb to trade Gonzalez.
Don’t nitpick. Seriously, is there anybody in the A’s system you’d rather have in CF going forward than Carlos Gonzalez?
No
but that doesn’t mean I want Gonzalez either. Can’t hit a breaking ball. And even still, if we did hypothetically have Gonzalez in our system and not Taylor, how much better would the 2011 A’s be? Enough to convince you to not rebuild again?
According to who?
FG has Gonzalez at 2.4 WAR, Crisp at 1.6 WAR.
Gonzalez has been worth 11.2 WAR in three season with Colorado. I don’t care if he can’t hit fastballs, curveballs, change ups, or sliders. If the man could only hit knuckleballs and eephus pitches and still be worth 4 WAR per season, I’d want him in Oakland.
In any case, Crisp was a free agent. The A’s could easily have brought him in and had Crisp and Gonzalez, rather than Crisp and Taylor (Taylor, the guy who’s older than Gonzalez and still hasn’t made it out of AAA).
Lenscrafters is right: the rebuilding process brought in an absurd amount of talent. It’s a shame they abandoned it halfway through, but that doesn’t mean it was a bad idea.
BB-Ref has him at 1
I don’t know which WAR is better. Regardless, if he can’t hit a breaking ball at sea level, that would cause him severe problems in Oakland. You can’t just assign him 11.2 WAR in Oakland. I am still very unconvinced he would ever be good in Oakland, given his scouting profile (which matters too).
And they didn’t “abandon” the rebuild. They traded one guy. Downgrading from Gonzalez to Taylor isn’t the end of the world.
You should read
this article. It’s not breaking balls he has trouble with on the road, it’s the fastballs, which move less in Colorado. You still have to realize that the vast majority of players perform better at home than on the road, regardless of where home is.
Even if you look at his park and league-adjusted numbers, he’s still one of the better hitters in baseball. He wouldn’t put up the same numbers in Oakland, but he’d still be the best hitter on the team.
Regardless
I don’t think we’d be that much better off with him on the team. Maybe 3 wins, aggressively. Very aggressively. That trade isn’t the reason the 2011 A’s are mediocre.
Even if it's 3 Wins there is a pretty big
difference between an 83 Win team and an 86 win team. The former is two All-Star players away from contending, the latter is one All-Star player away from contending
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 6:05 AM PDT up reply actions
The White Sox led MLB in WAR with 24.9
in 2011. So you’re saying if we’re the best pitching staff in baseball we can survive a below average lineup.
That would be true, but we’re not the best pitching staff in baseball.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I see 17.7 for the Phillies in 2011
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
and they're good on a historical level.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Fangraphs is mo betta IMO.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
OK never mind the 2 WAR difference
You really think we can be as good as the Phillies staff?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
BTW the average team last year had 38 WAR, so the
Marlins were a bit unlucky. Replacement level was about 43 Wins, so with average luck your 40 WAR team would win 83 games
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
And if you get a full season out of Bailey
and you assume that Cahill and Gio aren’t peaking, but will continue to get better then you could bump that projection to 88 or so, with a little luck hit 90.
Sure, it's possible for an 83 Win team to get career
years out of a bunch of players and win a bunch of close games and win 90 games. But I’m wouldn’t be excited about that as a goal.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Well we're assuming 18 WAR out of the
position players. If they can get everyone to be average at least, maybe Jemile and Barton exceed 2. And I would be happy with 88 as a goal next year. How can they aim for more, realistically?
And haven't most of us assumed we're NOT
going to make the playoffs next year? If we can get 83-88 wins out of a non-playoff year, then this franchise is awesome. Can’t wait til we get to the 2013 real playoff run.
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
So your plan is to assemble an 83 Win team
and hope for luck?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes.
Given the fact that my plan doesn’t cost a ton of money, and costs nothing in terms of prospects, I think it’s a responsible course of action. It also doesn’t cost any top prospects and retains long term payroll flexibility. You can’t just punt and punt and punt until you eventually put together a 95 win-on-paper team.
It's that important
But I disagree. My plan would be to punt until I could build a 90+ Win for 7 years team like the 1999-2006 A’s. I basically think of 81 Win teams as the same as 71 Win teams
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 28, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I understand that thinking
but I’m not entirely convinced the 2013-2017 A’s aren’t set up to be those teams already. Also, I think when you’re a professional baseball team and you have a reasonable shot at assembling an 85-90 win team while not mortgaging the future or breaking the bank, you do it and hope for the best. You owe it to the fanbase to try to win every game you can, every year (even if it’s not your World Series year). It’s embarrassing for the franchise not to.
If I really thought this team projected
to 87-88 wins then I’d be with you. Since I think they project to around 75 Wins then I’m not.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 6:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Pe ople were talking about how that was such a nice strategy last offseason.
It’s quite amusing to me that, even after this trainwreck of a year, people still want to do the same thing this%2
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 28, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, if you want to talk about failed strategies
I could make a similar statement that’s just as valid in favor of not rebuilding. Watch:
“People were talking about how rebuilding was such a nice strategy in 2008. It’s quite amusing to me that, even after this trainwreck of a rebuild, people still want to do the same thing.”
.
Rebuilding wasn’t the issue. That rebuild accumulated a shit ton of talent.
Ironically, it was trading important pieces from that rebuild for a rental player + signing mediocre players in a hasty effort to build a mediocre team that may compete if “everything turned out well” that put the team in its current situation.
You should try crafting scenarios and examples that actually help the point you’re trying%2
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 28, 2011 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
OK .
If I attach a cape to my back and I jump off a cliff but I don’t end up flying, I should keep jumping off the cliff because it “didn’t work this time but it doesn’t mean it won’t work next time”.
Or if you prefer a less reductio ad absurdum example,
If I build a mediocre team, I can expect a mediocre team.
If I build a mediocre team, and I get a mediocre team, I should keep building mediocre teams.
Which is less%2
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 28, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmm...
If I attach a cape to my back and I jump off a cliff but I don’t end up flying, I should keep jumping off the cliff because it "didn’t work this time but it doesn’t mean it won’t work next time".
Try it three times and get back to me. I kid, I kid!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If
you think the 2010-11 offseason strategy was as fundamentally flawed as jumping off a cliff, I suppose that doesn’t make it a good plan. But if you think, as I do, that a bad 110 games doesn’t mean an offseason strategy was completely wrong, and you separate process from results, then it’s reasonable to try it again.
I honestly don't understand
how going forward with a .500 team and hoping for luck, call it optimism, is a good plan.
I honestly don't understand
how looking at a team and deciding that since you aren’t going to win the WS this year or next means that you should sell every good player you have every time. I wonder what you would have done with the 72 win 2008 SF Giants.
It's not the WS I'm worried about.
It’s even being competitive. When I look at this year, I don’t see a team that had a few unlucky breaks. I see a team of injury risks and mediocrity and I don’t see much help on the way.
The A’s could put together a really, really good farm system if they played their cards right over the next half week and this offseason, and I’d prefer to be competitive three or four years down the road than okay for the next eight.
I see a team that's only -15 in run diff
that featured Mark Ellis and Kevin Kouzmanoff, who’ve already been upgraded. And a star-level 1B who had torn shoulders. And 2 ace starters who are young and getting better. But I guess I just woke up on the right side of the bed, maybe.
One final point
at no point did I say it’s a good idea to keep running out 2011-style patchwork, 2 WAR apiece offense for the next 6 years, I said do it next year and leave your young talent in place for 2013-2016.
Which young talent does this organization
have? Gio, Cahill, Anderson, Choice, Gray? Is that the core of a 90+ win run?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 6:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Do you think a top 12 (why 12 btw?) from one teams organization is better than 2 draft picks?
I would have thought otherwise but am curious to other opinions.
depends on the farm and the positions they have on the block
I’d normally rather have the draft picks as well. I love the Braves Farm System though
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jul 28, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
The Braves have a stupid good farm system.
Personally, I’d prefer pitching from the Braves since they have so damn much of it. I would take something like Oberholtzer+ for Willingham (C+ prospect, ranked 21st by Sickels, just turned 22, doesn’t walk very many guys or give up homeruns, 3.29 FIP in AA). I would rather have a prospect doing well in AA than a draftee, or two of each if finishes Type A, but that’s just me.
So the Rangers and Cards are still looking for relief pitching
and I’m not sure who else. Is it to our benefit to hold out and be the last team with a good reliever left to trade or to get in while the gettin’s good?
Do we try to sell before Heath Bell goes or wait?
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
So the CUBS didn't really get much at all for Fukudome
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jul 28, 2011 10:06 AM PDT reply actions
Did you think they would?
They’ve been trying to straight up give away him, Z and Soriano all year.
If they took on all but $5M a year on Soriano, I would prefer to have him in LF than Hammer. At least Soriano can play defense. Plus Sori at his best is a 5-7 WAR player, which destroys Hammer at his best which is 3.0.
They got a guy named Abner and a guy named Carlton.
I don’t know what else they could have asked for.
Greeti% 3C/p>
ngs from Karlsruhe….for some reason, I have to use a VPN here (stupid laptop machinations) to use the internet, so if my comments come out in weird formatting, forgive me.
1. Damn, AA is a shark. From everything I’ve read, the guy manages to get deals like that because he sticks his nose in every potential deal, and inquires about damn near every single player. He leaves no stone unturned and I know it’s basically every GM’s job to do that but he seems to do it either better than everyone else, or to a greater extent than everyone else. I remember when we had a GM like that….
Along with excellent trading, the Blue Jays have excelled in drafting, IFA/overslot spending, and development. They have an exciting young core and with rumblings about signing Pujols/Fielder next year, it’s a great time to be a Blue Jays fan. It’s always nice to see a potential toppler of the Yankee/Red Sox regime.
2. TLR is a fucking moron. It’s one thing to not like a player and want him traded. It’s another thing to go public with the extent of your vitriol. If you want a player gone, you keep it between yourself and the GM. You don’t go and destroy whatever leverage your GM had by blabbing your fat, self-important mouth. He placed massaging his own ego and playing the media ahead of the team’s best interests so just chalk this up as another reason why managers are such a detriment to their teams. Of course, it doesn’t help that the GM is dumb enough to prefer 2 months of Edwin Jackson over 4 years of Jeff Niemann or that team ownership is dumb enough to prefer the old, senile manager over the 24 year old potential star center fielder.
2A. Someone leak to TLR that Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez are getting pitching tips from their daddies.
3. The same thing happened with Yunel Escobar and Bobby Cox last year. It just goes to show how teams should avoid having a Big Name Manager’s ego to assuage or a manager who’s tenured long enough that they have clout over a team’s personnel decisions. By virtue of being involved with a team’s players pretty much all 24/7 during the season, it’s natural for an on the field manager to pick up biases or colored perceptions of certain players, rightfully or not. That’s why managers and GMs have separate jobs.
So the Braves ended up giving up their young 27 year old shortstop, who’s one of the top 20 players in MLB this year, and who’s now signed through 2015 at roughly 5 million per year for…..what exactly? And interesting enough, there hasn’t been a peep about Escobar’s discipline problems since he arrived in Toronto…
4. Even with all the recent outfielder trades, the OF market is still saturated while the suitor list is dwindling. Mid tier guys like Willingham, Ludwick, Quentin, Span, etc are still plentifully available. That deal the Cubs got for Fukudome is probably about the same as Willingham’s market value. And even if Willingham qualifies as a Type A, it’s unlikely that a contending team with an unprotected first round pick would see him as valuable enough to give up that pick for. It’s more likely a team with a protected first round pick signs him….In which case, the A’s end up with a second round pick instead of a top 16-30 pick. So if we trade Willingham, we probably get 2 C prospects and if we keep him, we get the honor
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
nice write up... agreed
and loved this line
2A. Someone leak to TLR that Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez are getting pitching tips from their daddies.
All well put.
If Beane were really humming along like he used to, the A’s would have Rasmus and Escobar, for far too little, as other teams’ discarded “bad attitude guys” and we’d be sitting pretty.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I have to ask whats the reason?
Since A’s cant produce their own decent hitters, they should be taking advantage of these situations? Plus doing everything possible to improve the farm system. In the draft they didnt go for any high upside, tough signable players early. Still havent signed 4 of their top 11 picks, didnt sign any intl free agents? Do you think Wolff, Fisher have lessened the budget due to the teams uncertain future and so far disappointing 2011 season.
Just because they didn't draft guys that were impossible to sign
doesn’t mean the draft didn’t have high upside. Most of the guys they drafted are pretty raw college players. Yeah, they took the college route, but a lot of these guys still have considerable upside. MLB Bonus Baby did a write up yesterday.
I also thought it was interesting to see them mention that they drafted several undersize pitchers, guys that have good stuff and good results but aren’t projectable. One of the guys was listed at 5’6".
Great read
By far the most info I’ve seen on the late picks.
It’s certainly an interesting tactic, taking raw college players. It explains why most folks were underwhelmed with the draft. I don’t know enough to have much of an opinion on it, but if there was some sort of general strategy, that’s encouraging at least.
Brandon Magee sounds intriguing, and dude, Kilcrease…that’s amazing! Be fun to follow these guys if they all sign…
by mk on Jul 28, 2011 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you know much about Spina (Midland)?
He’s having a pretty solid season, and he’s 24, which is old for his league but not that old. I don’t really see him on prospect lists – is that because he sucks, or is he worth keeping an eye on?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
IIRC
from that draft, folks were saying he could mash but wasn’t much of an athlete…1B/DH type. So my guess is that he’s disregarded because folks say they’re a dime a dozen. But 11th round isn’t quite crazy flier time or anything.
Someone more knowledgeable should definitely weigh in here.
by mk on Jul 28, 2011 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting, thanks.
He seems to be hitting pretty well and I don’t know how he’s handling 1B but that’s where he’s playing. Sounds like a Billy Butler type (best case scenario), Lucas Duda type (medium case scenario), or Chris Carter type (worst case scenario in the field).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Jim Callis had some good things to say when he was drafted
but really, anything good we get out of Spina would be a surprise.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
I'm not seeing where it says the draftees have all that much upside
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 6:12 AM PDT up reply actions
He opens it by saying: "Their draft has upside."
Most of the guys show good tools, but have one flaw. Vollmuth has huge power but strikes out, Taylor is solid offensively but new to catching, Crocker is big and fast but hasn’t hit for power yet, Alexander is a good defender but a slap hitter at this point. Besides Gray, there’s not a lot of name recognition, but if they develop a couple of the guys, it might not look so bad. I don’t know shit about any of the guys besides what I’ve read, and the fact that this was optimistic seems to be a good sign.
Yes, I see that now, and you're right in that I'm more sanguine than I was...a little
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Olney tweet
Olney
As Atlanta is going through its list of OFers (Pence, Quentin, Willingham), they’ve also had internal discussions about Coco Crisp for CF.
They really need a CF. Coco would be a good fit for Atlanta.
"Never have a motto, that's what I always say" - Me
http://marcel-oehler.marcellosendos.ch/comics/ch/1986/05/19860506.gif
"I Hate SF" - The Chosen One.
They're just not a great trade partner.
Not sure what we would ask back in return that would be a good match.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What do they have that someone else wants?
Maybe there’s a three-way possibility. Too bad Billy doesn’t do that any more. I remember when he would even do four-ways.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
And I'd wake up wondering where I left the car keys.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You and January Jones?
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Jul 29, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
We even have the same dress!!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They're an excellent trade partner because they have prospects and the A's need some.
Oakland’s farm is pretty depleted currently, especially in terms of pitching prospects. There’s Krol, Griffin, and now Gray, and that’s about it. The Braves might have the best crop of pitching prospects in the MLB right now. After Beachy, Jurrjens, and Hanson (Lowe and Hanson are there for a couple more years), they have Vizcaino, Minor and Teheran.
After that, they have about a billion B-/C+ guys, most of whom are having pretty good years, and I’d pretty much take any of them for Crisp and any two of them for Willingham.
MLBTR
The Rangers appear to be involved in serious talks with the Padres and A’s regarding relievers, according to Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News (on Twitter).
I’ll take anything at this point. Just do something.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
If the Rangers want Bailey, I'd be glad, as long as we get a Top 5 Prospect for him
However, that would likely make the Rangers the team to beat in the AL, and I’m ok with that. I guess.
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jul 29, 2011 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
actually, any of the Following 6 Texas Rangers prospects would be gladly welcomed
According to John Sickels, 2011 Top 20 Prospects for the Texas Rangers at minorleagueball.com
1) Jurickson Profar, SS, Grade B+: Borderline A-, grade is undecided basically. Outstanding defense, very young for his level, not sure how the hitting will develop but flashes a lot of promise and should be an average hitter at worst.
2) Martin Perez, LHP, Grade B+: I’m firm on this grade, one notch lower than last year. I know he was young for the Texas League, but still. . .it was not a good season, and I’m concerned that his stuff wasn’t as consistent this year. Keep in mind a B+ still makes him a really good prospect in my view.
3) Robbie Erlin, LHP, Grade B+: Terrific feel for pitching, stats are great, scouts like him even though he’s a smaller pitcher.
4) Tanner Scheppers, RHP, Grade B: Very tough to rank. Was great in relief early, stumbled in the rotation, and was horrible back in the bullpen late. This grade could go down a notch further depending on what further research reveals.
5) Mike Olt, 3B, Grade B: Fine glove at third base, should post a strong OBP, home run power still a bit of a question. Expect him to be a solid regular.
6) Engel Beltre, OF, Grade B-: Might go with a Grade B here, undecided grade. If I do that, he could move ahead of Olt and/or Scheppers. I love the tools and youth, but there is just something here that makes me wonder. . .I want to see him in Arizona before I make a final decision. Spots 4-6 are still in flux, so no whining about it please.
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jul 29, 2011 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
For Bailey, you should hold out for exactly the player you want
If that’s Profar, you shouldn’t pull the trigger unless he’s involved. Same if it’s Perez. Erlin sounds good; the last three seem too “iffy” for me to want to make them a centerpiece for Bailey.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Getting Profar for Bailey
Would be awesome! I doubt it would happen – but since the Rangers have Andrus whose still young I guess Profar is expendable.
by longtimeasfan on Jul 29, 2011 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
If that's what the A's want,
they should NOT move Bailey to their chief division rival for less, IMO.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I like this thinking
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jul 29, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I dont.
There are a lot of really attractive prospects in Texas’ system, and being stubborn about somebody like Profar, which is pretty unrealistic, doesn’t really help the team. Bailey pitching for the Rangers doesn’t hurt the A’s as much as people think it does, both in terms of what the Rangers get and what the A’s lose.
I'd trade Bailey for any of the Top 3 pretty quickly. Olt could be OK, Beltre would take some balls
to trade for as the primary piece in a trade. Scheppers seems like an injury prone reliever albeit a potentially very good one, which is basically a younger version of Bailey, so I don’t see the point.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Scheppers & Olt, no thanks. Other 4, yes please.
In their midseason top 50 BA had them:
6 Martin Perez, lhp, Rangers
12 Jurickson Profar, ss, Rangers
25 Leonys Martin, of, Rangers
34 Robbie Erlin, lhp, Rangers
Would love to get Martin & Erlin out of their system.
martin and erlin would be an oustanding return
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
Olney reporting
that the Red Sox still have interest in Harden
So the question is, what is a reasonable return for Harden?
Given that he’s a two-month rental with health history issues, I wouldn’t think it was huge, though he has “insta-ace” potential and you might get more just because the Red Sox and Yankees are both scouting (so likely vying for) him.
The Red Sox players that most interest me are Kalish, Reddick, Lavarnway, Workman, and Vitek, none of whom you’ll get for Harden alone. Maybe Lars Anderson finally gets moved, and the A’s take a shot at his former pedigree?
What do folks think a Harden based deal to the Red Sox could look like?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Actually, looking at this year's stats
both Vitek and Workman are struggling enough in A-ball that perhaps they could be swapped for Harden.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Vitek looks like a future 1B/DH and his bat doesn't seem exceptional enough to make
me excited about him.
Workman looks fine to me, and I’d take him for Harden but I don’t see the Red Sox going for that.
I still like Henry Ramos, even though he’s been terrible this year and he might actually be a possible return for Harden.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't know too much about Vitek - just did the quick Sickels book read on him
so maybe he’s not “all that,” especially if he’s struggling this year and is only in A-ball.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Alex Hassan.
He’s lost in the middle of all their outfield prospects. He doesn’t hit for much power but he’s an OBP machine. Sickels didn’t even rank him in the Red Sox top twenty this year. He’s a reasonable return for a possible ace, possible medical bill.
I like him. Plus we get to say "Hassan Chop"
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Harden for Lars could be solid centerpieces of a deal
Lars is losing momentum as a prospect and is blocked at the MLB level. My concern is that he is not that good.
Not that I think that MLB.com is an authority on prospects
but it is depressing seeing them put zero of us in the top 50. Unsurprising, but still depressing.
by Rebuilding Season on Jul 29, 2011 10:28 AM PDT reply actions
Choice probably should be a top 50
But really no one else can even lay claim.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I Am Skeptical
About the A’s making a trade.Albeit, Billy has been known to make trades right before the deadline, but the team’s grooving (especially the offense), so maybe it would be a bad idea to mess things up. Right now, our guys are performing, doing well.
I would, however, be OK with a bullpen, for either a good hitter or some prospects. Perhaps we could pull off something along the lines of Fuentes, Breslow & a prospect for Hunter Pence? Just a suggestion.
I would like to have Crisp and Willingham on the team next year.
Houston would laugh you off the phone.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
If only we had Joe Saunders to dangle!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
In Their Current Situation,
Can Houston laugh?
by Jason James on Jul 29, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
What else can they do?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 29, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
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