Trade Deadline Thread Part Deux
by A'sFanDFW on Jul 20, 2011 11:05 AM PDT
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This just in from MLB Trade Rumors
The Pirates are mulling a possible trade with the Athletics for lefty Craig Breslow and outfielder Josh Willingham, tweets Rob Biertempfel of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Biertempfel believes Garrett Jones would probably be part of the package going to Oakland in such a deal.
Does anyone think that Garrett Jones is any better than draft picks on Willingham? Josh Willingham is back on the Type A Bandwagon so that's good news for his trade value.
Garrett Jones has racked up a whopping 3.4 WAR in his 356 big league appearances. If I'm not mistaken, that makes him below leage average. I just have no idea why we would want this below-avergish 30 year old 1B.
I didn't see much else interesting on the Pirates. Starling Marte at AA might be something, but I really know nothing about the Pirates system. Check out this link for the Piratestop 10 from their website.
I'm a fan of trading for Domonic Brown, but MLBTR and Matt Gelb "don't see it happening" for Carlos Beltran, so probably not for Willingham either.
Any other news on the Trade Deadline?
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Agreed
I don’t see the benefit of Jones over Willingham. He had a solid 2009, but has slipped down since. I doubt he would regain a powerstroke in Oakland, and the Pirates sit him against lefties.
I’d rather take the picks assuming Willingham can get type A status.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
This.
Or even try resigning him for another year. We’re not in fire sale mode, so the A’s should still have the leverage in trades.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
I'd rather have the picks over Jones even if Willingham is type B.
However its a no brainer if he stays type A.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 20, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with 90 percent of this
and the responses. I’d choose Picks even if he’s B.
But it says “part of the package.” I’d take Garrett Jones over Conor Jackson or the 2011 Barton. Maybe he can be a stop gap for next year until Carter shows something better with the glove, Daric starts to play like last year, or we sign a great FA.
Let’s hope Garrett Jones isn’t the cornerstone of the package.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jul 20, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Would be nice to get more
… especially since the Hammer is one of our best chips. It looks like Marte and Sanchez are the most interesting positions players in PIT’s system, otherwise I would hold out for the draft picks (though our track record isn’t great there).
If all we get is Jones out of Willingham, I don’t even want to see what’s coming for some of our other guys…
looking at their "top 10"
I don’t see anything I want – i.e. POWER.
I would hope that Beane is being a shrewd business man and either grab a decent number of their best prospects, or is just trying to light a fire under other GMs butts.
The GMs know the A’s have a stable of movable pieces and probably don’t feel pressure to act. If Beane is about to move a solid power bat + one of the better relievers under team control, it might get them calling.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
The Pirates have a lot that I want.
Taillon, Heredia, Allie and Sanchez are all excellent prospects. They probably won’t trade any of them, though.
by NateHST on Jul 20, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can't see the A's actually wanting Jones.
i mean, maybe if we were a contending team, since we have no real first baseman. But we’re not contending. We need to be rebuilding. No thanks on Jones.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
by thewhizkid on Jul 20, 2011 11:38 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
This.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 20, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Why would a contending team want him?
He hits lefties at like a .160 clip. He’s a platoon or bench player at best.
"Life is tough .... It's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne
I also don't understand what good Jones would do.
I would much rather have the picks, whether Willingham is type A or B, if the package is centered around Jones. However if the A’s get a couple good prospects and Jones that would be OK.
It is good news that Willingham is a type A again, those picks are pretty valuable, the A’s should not trade him if they can’t get back good prospects. Picks>Jones.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
Re-reading the thing about the Jones,
it just said he’d be a part of the deal. Like you said, if he’s part of it, but not the central focus, that’s fine. If we get two B-/C+ prospects plus Jones, that’s not too bad.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Would Beane flip Jones for something more?
Curious if there are any contenders at there with a hole at 1st.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jul 20, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmm...
Giants obviously, but they have Belt and don’t deal with the A’s ever. Other than that…maybe the Rangers.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Diamondbacks.
Possibly packaged with Gio (I reallllllly hope he doesn’t leave though).
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
They have Goldschmidt though
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Who?
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Paul
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
never heard of him.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
You'll have to learn about him if you're going to live in Tempe
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
His numbers are off the charts.
But i still think the dbacks could be looking for a Jones type, since he’s still a year or so off.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
It doesn't even say that.
All it says is that if Pittburgh acquires Willingham then Jones is “out the door”. There is no indication from anyone that he’s a piece in the trade.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
prospects from Pittsburgh
I too have no interest in Jones.
I wonder if we pay all of Willingham’s remaining salary, add Breslow, another relief pitcher (any but Balfour or Bailey) or prospect (Cardenas?), if we can get 22-y-o CF/RHB Starling Marte (307/343/443 in AA) and 20-y-o LHP Colton Cain (90 IP, 1.04 WHIP, 72K, 25BB)
Before the 2010 season, Goldstein ranked Marte as their #4 prospect (giving him 3 stars) and Cain as their #8 prospect (also 3 stars).
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=10082
Here is some of what Goldstein wrote of Marte: . . . easily has the best all-around tools in the system. Long-limbed and ultra-athletic, he’s a 65-70 runner on the 20-80 scouting scale, covers considerable ground in center field, and has an above-average arm. He rarely looked overmatched against Sally League pitching, and some scouts project for him to hit for average power down the road. . . . will be 21 for all of 2010, but he has some of the rawness normally associated with a teenager. He needs to tone down his aggressiveness at the plate, and good breaking balls can turn him into a chaser at times. He needs his speed in center to make up for bad jumps and routes. . . . Other than Alvarez, Marte is the only position player in the system with true impact-level upside, but he’s not without considerable risk. . . . Marte still needs two or three years before he’s ready.
This is some of what Goldstein wrote about Cain:
This big Texas lefty slipped in the draft due to signability concerns, but he finally got a seven-figure bonus . . . Cain’s classic power frame and arsenal is made all the better as it comes from the left side. He sits in the low 90s, touches 94, and most think that will become more commonplace velocity for him down the road. He already flashes a plus curveball and some feel for a changeup. He’s good and he knows it, and he pitches with a Texas-sized chip on his shoulder. . . had an inconsistent spring, as he was often guilty of overthrowing, costing him both command and movement. He has a beefy build, and conditioning could be an issue down the road. His attitude borders on arrogance for some. . . . Perfect World Projection: He projects to be an above-average big-league starter.
more Goldstein on Marte and Cain
Here’s what some of what he wrote at
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=12400
before the 2011 season, when he ranked Marte their #8 prospect (still 3 stars) and Cain #10 (downgrading him to 2 stars):
2010 Stats: .346/.393/.692 at Rookie (8 G); .315/.386/.432 at High-A (60 G)
Marte’s tools still offer plenty to dream on. He’s a 60 runner with a 60 arm, and combined with good instincts he’s a potential impact defender in center field. He has a quick, quiet swing and outstanding hand-eye coordination, giving him the ability to hit for average and leaving many scouts to think that eventually there will be a power aspect to his game. . . Marte’s hand problems prevented him from hitting for power in 2010, but it’s not a complete excuse, as he’s an upper-half swinger who needs to incorporate his hips and legs into his swing. His tools project him as an ideal two-spot hitter in the lineup, but his pitch recognition needs to improve, as he expands his strike zone early in the count and is highly susceptible to breaking balls.
. . . Perfect World Projection: He could be a plus defender with hitting ability and speed, but not enough secondary skills to be a star. . . ETA: Late 2012.
Here’s some of what he wrote about Cain: Given a well over-slot bonus of $1.15 million in 2009, Cain showed plenty of promise in his pro debut, while also demonstrating that he still has plenty to work on. . . . Cain is built like a classic power right-hander from Texas, only he’s a southpaw. He’s highly projectable and already sits in the low 90s and tops out at 94 mph; Cain was able to retire short-season batters on his velocity and command alone. Physically, he’s a beast who approaches the game with an aggressive mentality. . . . is still raw and needs to develop the rest of his arsenal. He rarely gets good snap on his loopy curveball, and tips his changeup with a slower delivery. . . . Perfect World Projection: If Cain develops, he could become a good third starter. . . . ETA: 2014.
by branch rickey on Jul 20, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
IMO
these are the guys we should be trying to obtain: http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/7/20/2283391/2011-sleeper-alert-list-review-part-four#storyjump
Maybe they don’t work out, but they’ve got upside. And they’re not on a lot of radars yet.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Can I propose ground rules for this thread?
The following things are true, and to discuss possibilities otherwise is a waste of time.
A – Gio Gonzalez and Trevor Cahill will not be getting traded in the next 11 days.
B – Colby Rasmus and Domonic Brown will not be on the A’s on August 1st.
C – Andrew Bailey will almost certainly not get traded.
Being an A's fan, you most certainly can't guarantee A or C. As far as B, I have seen some scenarios for Rasmus
that the A’s could equal.
by theblackpearl on Jul 20, 2011 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I think the A's could equal comparable deals for Rasmus.
I just don’t see them targeting him.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Could, but won't compare for Rasmus.
The Cahill and Gonzalez bit is true, in my opinion, because the A’s never trade guys that good with that much team control left in the middle of the season. The big sells are usually off-season trades.
And the market for relievers is saturated, like it is every July. They won’t deal 3.5 years of Bailey right now.
I don't get having option C as a rule, because the A's have already stated they will listen.
I think it’s worthwhile to talk about who would be enough to trade him away.
But i agree with B for sure, the A’s just don’t have enough to trade for them.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Is Pennington really even an upgrade over Theriot?
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
If they're equal, wouldn't having a younger, cost-controlled Pennington be better?
by Brett Narloch on Jul 20, 2011 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Not if they have to give up Rasmus.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Uh like Cahill.
I’d have to think.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Would you trade Cahill for Rasmus straight up?
by Brett Narloch on Jul 20, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes
Id prefer to trade bailey for a potential upside hitter first though. A’s problem has never been producing pitching. But i’d do rasmus for cahill. Maybe add to that deal Sweeney and A’s get a serviceable mlb ready arm like lance lynn
by J.J. Miller on Jul 20, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't see why the A's would want Rasmus at all
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Cause he's 24 and would instantly be one of the best players on the team.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Well besides that.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I got nothin.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Yes but his defense in CF is bad and as a COF his bat isn't awesome
His tools are good but not spectacular. He seems like a healthy Travis Buck, which is OK but not a cornerstone. I’d want him a lot more if I were a contender with a hole in the OF, like the Braves.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
He projects at about a 115-120 wRC+ as an average COF
How is that any better than what Buck was before his myriad of injuries?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
After that first year, I thought Buck was just bad.
And then he got injured. Either way, Rasmus was a top ten prospect for a couple of years before he made it to St. Louis at age 22. He was a much better prospect than Buck was, and still has a much higher ceiling than “healthy Travis Buck.”
yeah
I’m really not feeling the Buck Rasmus comparison at all
Kiper+Fosse=Mute
by CorpseOfChavez on Jul 20, 2011 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
even in that first year, he had fluke streak against lefties that explains his awesomeness.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
OK if you never liked Buck much, then I can
see why you wouldn’t like the comparison. How about a lefty hitting Nick Swisher?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 21, 2011 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions
On your other points about Rasmus being a "top 10 prospect"
and making it to the bigs at 22, I’m not convinced that those things necessarily mean a high ceiling. You can be a Top 10 Prospect if you have Nick Swisher upside and you’re very close to being there already and you’re very young. While BA was calling Rasmus a Top Prospect, their write up on him didn’t mention anything other than “average or better [tools] across the board”.
While it’s true that many Hall of Fame players make it to the bigs at a young age, that by itself isn’t sufficient to anoint someone as having a high ceiling. Lots of players reach their ceiling early. To me, ceiling is much more a function of tools than it is a function of performance. Performance tells us how ready the prospect is, tools tell us how good they have a chance to be.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 21, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
He's 24. I'm pretty sure he's still got some upside left in him.
I guess if you don’t think he’s going to improve anymore at all in his career then yeah, he’s good but not spectacular.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Here's what BA said about his tools when he was a prospect
Rasmus’ tools are average or better across the board, but it’s his baseball savvy and desire that make him stand out. He has a sweet lefthanded swing and the ability to put a charge in the ball.
I’m not seeing where they say he’s got this massive untapped potential, and from watching him I basically don’t see that they’re far off base
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
That doesn't even come close to what STL would want.
Oh God now we’re discussing exactly what I didn’t want to discuss…
shouldn't have said anything...
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
It's a message board
the point is random discussion
Realistic scenarios:
For Willingham and his 2 draft picks:
From PIT: Matt Curry, 1B, 22, .940 OPS in 92 games at A-AA this season.
Jordy Mercer, 24, AAA Shortstop, .330 OBP, .471 SLG at AA-AAA.
Zach Dodson, Evan Chambers…
I'd rather have the draft picks than any of those people
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll take any prospect playing well in AA and AAA than any draft pick.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 20, 2011 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
So Jai Miller over a first rounder?
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
he isn't considered a prospect, he is a Cust type Journeyman
by theblackpearl on Jul 20, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
oh so that was the key word: prospect.
i thought he meant any player playing well.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
the problem is that we'll get some filler prospect
Huntington isn’t dumb. The Pirates aren’t going to trade away anything good given they have a good nest egg in the minors for 2013 and beyond.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 20, 2011 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Are these guys "prospects"
What’s the definition of a prospect? An impact player? A replacement level player?
Most of Curry’s 2011 production is as a 22 year old in A ball.
Similar story for Mercer – most of his 2011 production is as a 24 year old in AA.
I'd rather have the picks as well.
Especially if he can hang on to the type A status.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 20, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
well, currently it isn't hang on, it is get back to.
by theblackpearl on Jul 20, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
no he has it now.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Yeah he was back to type A recently
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 20, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
The second that home run landed in section 234, he was type A.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
You could actually see the "B" flip to an "A"
as the ball passed through the trajectory of the first deck to the second deck. It was cool.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I definitely disagree with your #C.
I think there’s a real possibility of Bailey being traded.
I agree that Domonic Brown isn’t going to happen.
Rasmus, Gio, and Cahill I think are very unlikely but not impossible.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Rasmus may well be traded but I don't see why the A's would trade for him
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't really care for Rasmus that much
but he’s a young, cheap CF who is consistently above average. That’s why the A’s would trade for him.
Well yes, but he seems more valuable to a contending team with an OF hole
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
Wish I would have saw this before I posted.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jul 20, 2011 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd say that Gio, Cahill, and Rasmus are unlikely in the way that the A's acquiring Troy Tulowitzki is unlikely.
Unlikely to the point that it’s a waste of time to think about it.
Did you see the Hudson and Mulder trades, days apart, coming?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You had to have an idea that Hudson would be traded since there were rumors for a couple of weeks
especially the Dodger one. The Mulder one came out of nowhere.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
That's how it was for me.
When Huddy was traded I was like, “So sad, but yeah…” When Mulder was traded I was like, “HUH????”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Again, the Hudson and Mulder trades were in the off-season.
Very different scenarios. And yes, there were some rumors of the big 3 being broken up before that happened. I literally have not seen a word connecting Rasmus to the A’s, nor have I seen anything about Cahill or Gonzalez being traded anywhere except on this site. It is not going to happen.
Blanton, Harden and Gaudin are probably a better comp
traded in July without much warning.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I thought about that,
but none of those guys carried near the value of Cahill or Gio, and those trades happened months after the offseason trades of Haren and Swisher that signaled the A’s were in full rebuild mode. I don’t believe they are there right now, given the fact that they made moves to win in 2011 last offseason. Also, Blanton had been rumored to be on the block for months. Lots of people were surprised he wasn’t traded before the 2008 season as well.
Hudson, Mulder & other deals--Useful as History Lessons
With the movie coming out, might be smart PR for Mr. B to move into the limelight and announce a headline-making deal or two, reminding one and all that he is still Trader Billy, architect of the Hudson, Mulder, Haren, Street and other big deals, some famous, others infamous. Also, rather than risking further injuries, the majority owners of the team might prefer to go ahead and unload healthier, players with market value such Gio, Bailey, Cahill or Willingham in exchange for APCC [Always Popular Cash Considerations] plus prospects who can be hailed as the keys to yet another rebuilding program. We may not want to see this happen, but given the history, you cannot rule it out.
OK, but I disagree.
I think Gio, Cahill and Rasmus are a different level of unlikely. You’re welcome to think otherwise, but if you propose ground rules for the thread telling us what we can’t talk about, I’m going to say no to that proposal.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I'm pretty sure
Bailey has been discussed in many trades and I see him being the most likely bullpen candidate to be traded considering his sky high value.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jul 20, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Been discussed
But so totally probably not happening. Bailey’s another one of those cost controlled guys that the A’s don’t have a history of trading away in the middle of a season. I don’t see anyone matching Beane’s price for him, given the availability of relievers right now. That’s why I think Bailey is 99% to stay in Oakland through at least the end of the season.
I'd be more impressed by your pronouncements
if you offered to eat a hat.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
well, the sky high value works both ways.
People will probably be willing to settle for a balfour, ziggy, or breslow if they need bullpen help because they may not want to pay the premium for bailey.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 20, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, thank you.
Lesson one in business is that value is decided by the consumer. Teams are primarily looking for immediate upgrades this time of year, anything beyond that is a bonus. If you’re renting a car to drive you from SF to LA, why spend $$$$$ on an M3 when you can spend $$ on a Corolla?
Yes thank you...
Lesson one in Finance buy low, sell high. It’s money ball and we’re always going to be looking to flip the overvalued and find the undervalued.
If Balfour and ziggy don’t get us a good haul Billy’s not pulling the trigger. Bailey seems to be the only one in the bullpen who could actually get us a decent high ceiling prospect.
Remember high value works both ways.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jul 20, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
yes but midseason why the hell do people care about the extra years of control on bailey?
They want to win now, giving up as little as possible.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 20, 2011 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah July probably isn't the time to deal Bailey.
Buy low sell high is true, but right now is not “high” for Andrew Bailey since there’s a glut of available pretty good relievers. That weighs down his value significantly.
by BWH on Jul 20, 2011 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
right, every losing team right now is willing to deal relievers for prospects
Because losing teams want prospects and don’t need relievers right now.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 20, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
except none of the teams are wanting to trade anyone away yet.
they’re holding on to unreal expectations for the return.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Unless nobody wants to sell.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
They will.
Not yet, but maybe in 5 or 6 days. That’s the reality of the situation. Brandon League, Heath Bell, Mike Adams, Kerry Wood, Chad Qualls, Jon Rauch, Taylor Buchholz… These are guys who will likely get sold. Relievers always get dealt in July.
this.
a lot of teams are still in it. the teams that arent may just hold onto their pieces.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Who is the glut of good relievers that have cost control?
Bell, Capps, Broxton are all free agents.
While I don’t 100% disagree with your premise, Bailey, if available can serve added benefit over the other trade market options. If the A’s get the appropriate haul for him, deal him away.
Beane needs to be thinking about 2013 even more than 2012, and definitely more than 2011.
But good relievers with cost control aren't
what gets traded at the July deadline. The July deadline is typically “buyer-seller” trades. That is, one team is more concerned with the rest of this season and less concerned with the next, and the other team is the reverse.
Cost-control is a valuable commodity, but it tends to be more valuable to the team in the “seller” role than the team in the “buyer” role.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
The one exception I could see
is a team looking to solve its closer problem “now and going forward”. A team like Philly might want to get someone like Bailey because he’s the best reliever they can get for 2011 and also they won’t have to renew the search for 2012-13. But few teams are looking at it that way, and the norm would be “take the closer/set up man who’s going to be a FA; he costs less to acquire.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah, I agree with that.
There are a few teams who might be “buyers” now and simultaneously be looking at budget for the next couple years. That’s why I think trading Gio, Cahill, or Bailey is unlikely but not inconceivable.
The other issue is that if they are looking at the next few years, it makes them less willing to give up the prospects we want.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Yankees
Yankees have a subpar rotation right now for a WS contender…
Current: CC, Burnett, Hughes, Nova, Colon, Garcia
2012: Burnett, Hughes, Nova,
- CC has an option to opt out. Colon has a 1 year deal.
Doing some quick searching of the FA SPs shows a seemingly weaker pool of talent: CC, Buerhle, CJ Wilson, Pineiro, Edwin Jackson, Penny, Garland, Kuroda, Harang
With club/player options: Carpenter, Wainright, Oswalt
The Yankees, with their payroll and annual WS aspirations need to acquire top end talent more than any other team. They are a team that should be active in the SP trade market either now or in the offseason as this this is the best way they can add an impact arm. I assume this is why the Ubaldo rumors continue to swirl regarding them. I think the A’s could match up well with them this season or winter for a trade.
But the cost control thing is less valuable to the Yankees.
Hypothesize some other pitcher who is just as good as Cahill, has a contract just as long, but costs twice as much. Because of the contract, that pitcher will less valuable, and thus will require less prospects in trade to acquire. The Yankees, because they can afford the money, will lean more toward the guy who costs more money and less prospects.
I don’t know if there’s an exact match out there for my hypothetical pitcher, but even if there isn’t the principle still applies. It’s just like trade in regular economics: the issue here is comparative advantage, not absolute advantage.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Agreed
but who is available? There aren’t many rebuilding teams that have plus starting pitching. Off the top of my head: Shields, Karstens, Felix, Pineda…
If I were the Yankees I’d go for Felix aggressively.
I don't think anyone gets Felix.
The Mariners don’t do the rebuild cycle that way. If they were going to let Felix go they wouldn’t have signed the last contract. Now they’re committed to him.
If you’re going after starting pitching, I think the targets are the same names you hear in all the rumors, Ubaldo Jimenez, Wandy Rodriguez, Hiroki Kuroda, Jeremy Guthrie, etc.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
This
The Mariners stick with their franchise players, currently Ichiro, Felix, and maybe Pineda, at this point. The last time they traded a franchise player was Griffey in 2000.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jul 22, 2011 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions
But why?
Why are we, as fans, considering moving Cahill/Gio etc, while the Mariners wouldn’t?
Because they have a different franchise philosophy.
Based strictly on success, I submit that ours works better.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I agree,
but it depends on the measure of success. The Mariners routinely outdraw us, fan wise. Part of that is stadium experience, location, and overall better economics in Seattle than in the east Bay. Part of that is creating connections to certain players (the three I mentioned earier currently, and in the past, Edgar, Buhner, etc.)
The A’s culture of trading players makes it hard to create that connection, which may be a detriment to attracting the casual fan, who may be more concerned with individual performance than the hardcore among us.
That said, we may have more success W-L wise with our philosophy. So, there’s a give and take.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jul 22, 2011 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, I should have set the parameters for success.
I meant the W-L success. My wife was furious when the A’s traded away Swisher. He was a real showman in Oakland, and brought fans into the seats.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Just talk
Neither team will move a front line pitcher unless they are over paid for that player. Look at the Rangers who want bailey. Bailey could be the missing piece for a ranger world series but they like most teams unwilling to trade prospects. I don’t see any front line starter being traded unless he is in the last year of a contract.
This
If you noticed last year, the Mariners did trade Lee to the Rangers, but only because they got a pretty good return.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Yeah
I guess I never considered Lee a franchise player, just because he was only there for a short while. Not enough time to create that connection.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jul 22, 2011 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
No he wasn't.
But, I was trying to show that they are willing to move top drawer players, if the return is right.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
To clarify, my point is not that the
Mariners are reluctant to trade good players. They are reluctant to let go of players in whom they have a significant marketing investment. Often those coincide, but not always. Cliff Lee is an example of a good player that they had little investment in.
The same thing happens on the flip side, and it’s why they are slow to let go of touted players who are playing terribly. Sexson, Betancourt, Figgins, etc.
I think this is a Nintendo thing. They are more accustomed to thinking in terms of commitment to brand investment than other baseball ownership groups.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Let me preface this by saying I do not believe the M's will trade Felix
But as a 3rd party viewing the Yankees and the Mariners, I think a Felix trade for 4-5 top prospects makes sense for both parties.
The Mariners have glaring holes on their roster which need to be remedied. Their window for contention may not be with Felix, though they do have him signed until 2014 (at some pretty high salary firgures).
The Yankees need top-line talent regardless of cost. The recent trend has been for teams to extend their cost controlled talent a year or two into their FA, which has created a weakened FA market. The only way the Yankees are going to acquire said talent is to trade with a team in a rebuilding phase, like the Mariners (or A’s).
I'd agree with you if Felix were the caliber
of someone like Dan Haren, but not since he’s a potential all-time great. I think they should make every effort to see that he spends his whole career in Seattle.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 22, 2011 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't put Gio or Cahill in the same
class as Ichiro or Felix. Gio and Cahill are nice pitchers, while Ichiro and Felix have HOF talent. A’s haven’t had a HOF talent since Rickey or McGwire.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 22, 2011 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions
We did have Booby...
[damn red dots!]
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
They should trade Ichiro
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Easier said than done
He has 10-and-5 rights and can block any trade.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I wasn't in favor of trading Rickey or
McGwire either.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 22, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think the Phillies have ever been linked to Bailey.
Anywhere. At all. It does make a little bit of sense, but it isn’t gonna happen. Speaking of relievers, Craig Breslow to PIT for Matt Curry. Who says no?
Just because they haven't been linked to Bailey
doesn’t mean there isn’t any interest. Philadelphia apparently expressed interest in Mike Adams and Heath Belle. It’s not a stretch to think if Bailey were available, which he is, the Phillies would be interested in him. I imagine of all the calls and tips and rumors we get, it’s probably just the tip of the iceberg of all the shit that goes on this time of year. They could have called and found the price was too high for them, and we may never know this.
PIT says no
Relievers like Breslow, while pretty good are, frankly, a dime a dozen.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What are you, the thought police?
Kiper+Fosse=Mute
by CorpseOfChavez on Jul 20, 2011 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought so.
(Is that ok?)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I agree with A or B
But the only reason I can think of for not trading Bailey is Beane wanting to prove he should retire.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 21, 2011 10:09 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
If you read the tweet rather than the MLBTR blurb
all it says is, “Jones likely would be out the door.” Jones isn’t really good, and definitely wouldn’t be the centerpiece of this particular deal.
That's what sucks about being at work
No Twitter/Facebook, so I can’t read any of the links. Yet somehow I still have access to AN and ESPN. Definitely have dudes choosing what sites are blocked.
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
From Olney
Source: Pirates/Oakland not discussing package deal involving Willingham. Not yet, anyway. They have talked relief pitching.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Breslow for Mel Rojas.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Fuentes for McCutchen!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 20, 2011 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
DONE!!!
And the pictures have been discarded.
by theblackpearl on Jul 20, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
heh
"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang
by King Richard on Jul 21, 2011 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Getting Marte for 1/2 season of Willingham would be pretty good.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Ya almost wish there were more minor league teams, because I've always felt that...
Not acquiring a good prospect because you already have a good prospect at that position didn’t make sense considering the flame-out rate of prospects.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 20, 2011 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I doubt they'd decline Marte because of Green.
Marte’s an excellent CF. Green’s played like, four games there. Green could move to a COF (which wouldn’t necessarily be a good idea), 3B or 2B or the A’s could use him as trade bait.
Green will seem like an excellent 2B option the next time Weeks pulls up lame.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So, today?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Luckily, today is an ordinary "bruise, fine tomorrow" injury.
I keep waiting for him to pull a hammy. Otherwise known as “pulling a Coco.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Like a caught stealing record.
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Jul 20, 2011 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah.
break my heart.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
On XM today they were talking about the A's and Indians matching up...
for a Willingham trade. They didn’t mention any prospects, just that Manny Acta had Josh in Washington (or was it Florida?) and that they need an OF slugger.
Who could the A’s realistically get?
They've got about 800 "B" prospects.
but I dunno what they’d actually part with. Pomeranz or Weglarz is probably too much, maybe a Jason Knapp or Tyler Holt type of guy
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Didn't Knapp just have shoulder surgery?
How about LeVon Washington?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Did he? I have no idea.
Washington is supposedly super duper toolsy, isn’t he? That would be neat if he was good at baseball.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
We'll make him good through our standout player development program
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
we're converting him to pitching, then?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
We should do that to all our minor leaguers
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Knapp just had shoulder surgery, so he's out.
As far as pitchers go, Nick Hagadone is probably the best prospect they’d part with. They have an interesting catching prospect from Taiwan named Chun-Hsiu Chen, but he’s blocked by Lou Marson and Carlos Santana. He’s doing pretty well this season for their AA season.
They also have a guy named Jordan Henry who’s basically a more advanced version of Aaron Shipman. Excellent plate discipline and high BB% but almost zero power. But he’s fast as hell and he plays an excellent CF. He’s currently in AA.
Any of these guys plus a lesser prospect would interest me in a deal for Willingham.
All of these guys sound fine to me
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Hagadone is a reliever
other than him I wouldn’t mind any of them
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
You're right.
He wasn’t too bad as a starter, despite his high BB%. I guess he’s dealt with injuries though, and they moved him to the bullpen for the same reason the A’s did FDLS? But we all know it’s kind of dumb to keep FDLS in the bullpen…
Hagadone had/has command and injury issues.
And IIRC didn’t have much of a third pitch. So yes, a lot like FDLS.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
Oh man, I really hope
its Willingham for Travis Buck.
Why buy good luggage? You only use it when you travel. - Yogi Berra
by SoCal As Fan on Jul 20, 2011 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
What about the Braves
They may be linked to us, so what do they have to offer? Maybe Edward Salcedo?
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
I'd do Willingham for Salcedo
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think he likes you like that.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Well, if he likes to watch...
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I go the extra mile for the A's
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Stamina, FTW!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Wilson Betemit traded to the Tigers.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
Another A's killer will join the Tigers, probably won't be there for tonights game, though
mlbtraderumors MLB Trade Rumors
Tigers Acquire Wilson Betemit http://bit.ly/r2te0B #mlb
Are the prospects any good?
mlbtraderumors MLB Trade Rumors
Royals announce Betemit trade in press release. Get prospects Antonio Cruz and Julio Rodriguez from Detroit.
Neither guy is even mentioned in Sickels rankings on minorleagueball.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
A bunch of shit is what that is
That’s what we’re going to get too if we trade Willingham or anyone else. Let ’em walk or re-sign him.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 20, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Willingham's value is so much higher than Betemit
Type A/B and 12HR to 3 for Betemit. Betemit is just a spare part to plug in.
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
So we'll just get more shitty talent
I’d love to part with Willingham for half a year and get back something useful, but I don’t see that happening.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 20, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
yes, I would rather keep willingham and/or even re-sign him since our OF options next year look beyond awful.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 20, 2011 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
If we don't re-sign him, our best options are...
(drumroll)
Ryan Ludwick
Jason Kubel
Ugh.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 20, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Seeing these names together makes me think that
Ryan Ludwick needs a limerick.
But I guess this is the wrong thread for that.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Have at it
I, for one, would appreciate some trade deadline levity.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 20, 2011 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
You assume we're going to sign another FA.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
I will be drinking heavily this off-season if we re-sign all of Crisp/DDJ/Willingham
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 20, 2011 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
What if we don't?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
I'm hoping for Willingham
trade for Pence or Bourn
one of Crisp or DDJ
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 20, 2011 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
and our worst-case scenario is something like CoJack, Sweeney, and Taylor
I kinda puked just typing that.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 20, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't see why we need to pay Jackson's 2012 salary
Miller can do what he does for the minimum
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Sad as it is to say
He may be the default 1B option next year.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 20, 2011 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
which is why getting Garret Jones in a deal with the buccos
could be a good thing.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 20, 2011 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Because we want another guy who is older than Conor Jackson
and equally as mediocre?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
I think Jones is better than Jackson
I am talking as a throw-in in a deal, not as a key piece.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 20, 2011 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
If they want Breslow and Fuentes, sure
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 20, 2011 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
agreed.
Probably can do more, i.e. play CF.
Can Miller equal Coco’s production do you think?
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 20, 2011 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe the A's should hire that guy who traded a paper clip for a house?
I believe we already have quite a few paper clips.
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Jul 20, 2011 3:37 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Make that trade
The A’s need anybody with power draft picks won’t make it because they can’t develop a bat to save their franchise. Willy is gone at the end of the year and the Bullpen is stacked get a power stick at a position that sucks for the A’s would be great
Let's go Oakland
Like, not good.
At all.
"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."
.
Athletics lefty Craig Breslow interests the Brewers, writes Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. Morosi expects many A’s to be dealt this month, and notes that the Rangers, Orioles, Giants, Pirates, Blue Jays, Brewers and Reds scouted Tuesday’s game in Detroit.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
WHO WANTS MATSUI????
Form one long line, please.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So, while we're waiting for info on potential trades
Has there been any word on what the other piece might be in the Mark Ellis trade?
I'll bet it becomes cash.
I never heard anything on a Steven Tolleson PTBNL either.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Possibly but it seems a little odd
Considering the A’s sent a pretty hefty chunk of change to the Rockies to cover most of Ellis’s salary, it seems like it would be weird to get cash back. Although I guess I wouldn’t be all that surprised if unnecessary transactions like this were commonplace in MLB dealings.
The A's are going to get cash back
and with it, Billy Beane will enter the Carlos Tevez sweepstakes.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
imaginary conversation between billy and charlie’s agent:
CA: hi, i’m kia joorabchian
BB: gesundheit.
CA: that’ll be $4000,000 a week please.
BB: well that’s nothing to sneeze at.
by AV on Jul 21, 2011 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Snood-wearing will be the new market inefficiency
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I find this comment to be rather snotty.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well, we sent $2M to the Rockies, right?
Are they just gonna send that back?
Most commentators were saying it could be a semi-decent PTBNL because we sent so much cash to the Rockies.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 21, 2011 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, good point about the cash.
So maybe there will be a PTBNL after all.
Still wondering about Tolleson.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
2 new opportunities for the A's...
Stephen Drew is out for the season and Carlos Gomez will miss significant time – possibly the season.
What would be a reasonable fetch for sending Pennington to Arizona and Crisp to the Brewers?
Good points on the opportunities
My guess is that ARI wouldn’t deal for Pennington, because at 4.5 games out, losing such a key player, they either need to raise the white flag or replace Drew with a comparable talent (e.g., Reyes). Adding Pennington doesn’t seem like enough of a solution to me.
In contrast, MIL is in a three-way dead heat race, currently on top, and acquiring Crisp would allow them literally (ok figuratively) not to miss a beat by replacing Gomez with a likeness who’s just as good if not better. Seems like a perfect fit to me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
also Milwaukee is very clearly "going for it"
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
As well they should
They have a great chance to win the division, and they’re about to lose Cecil Jr.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Does Arizona need a relief pitcher?
Pennington and _______ for _________?
by Brett Narloch on Jul 21, 2011 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Looks like CLE is looking at Crisp too......
Wonder what teams would be willing to offer
"The whole world is fueled by bullshit… What? The kid asked me for advice on his science fair project so I’m giving it to him." - shitmydadsays
Seems like CIN is the best trade partner, yet the team least likely to really need Crisp,
whereas MIL and CLE really make sense for wanting Crisp but aren’t as perfect partners. But what’s great is that Crisp’s value may be pretty high right now (in that multiple teams really need a CFer), and packaged with a good reliever perhaps the A’s could get something good in return.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Todd Frazier
Good power hitting 1b who can play multi positions. He is blocked by Votto and could be had for a Coco Crisp. Not a long term solution at first but could be a good stop gap player for the next couple of years until other players are ready. Worth taking a chance on.
The nice thing about Frazier is that he could be a solution in COF as well
I would certainly swap Crisp for Frazier in a heartbeat. Not sure CIN would, though, especially since of all teams eyeing Crisp they actually have a decent CFer in place (Stubbs).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I would do that in a heartbeat as well.
But then again I have well known giant man crush on Frazier….
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 21, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Why? Hasn't he stagnated at AAA?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 21, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah he has.
My man crush is irrational. In all likelihood he is not someone all that exciting, although I am a believer in his defensive ability, unlike the Reds apparently. I can see him being a pretty good defender at 3B or 2B, which makes his bat look better than COF.
My like for him stems from when I saw him play for NJ in the Little League World Series and then when he went on to play for Rutgers, and I’m from NJ so I follow the couple high profile Jersey prospects, which he once was.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 21, 2011 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Plus I would still like to see him given a shot a SS.
Its a pipe dream, because if he had any shot at it the Reds would have tried it, as they could use a shortstop, but I thought they gave up on him way too early. His minor league totalzone was good his last year at SS and he got pretty good reports on his defense, except his frame is much larger than most SS and I think that caused scouts to say he can’t stick at SS, but it seems to be working for Tulo.
However they must have been pretty confident he couldn’t stick at SS to move him off, so I’m sure my hoping he could be a SS is very unlikely.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 21, 2011 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmm...OK, but I wonder whether we could get more than Frazier for Crisp
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 21, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Would we even get Frazier?
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 21, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I'm not too sure how the Reds see Crisp.
If we could get something more or better than Frazier I would be all for it, I’m just not sure how much Crisp is worth.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
DBacks - Mil
could go for Jamie Carrol, or if they took Pennington, do we go after their 3B prospect Matt Davidson?
Who do we want from Milwaukee? These injuries just help position the A’s.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
Indians & Reds
are eyeing CoCo Crisp.
Gotta say, i will miss that fro w/ the gold jersey. classic.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
Heh
Just give the Pirates all our outfielders since they seem to like them so much. Looking at DDJ now.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
I like how that link says Pirates are deciding whether to follow up aggressively with Oakland
Umm…do we need anyone to follow up aggressively on deJesus? I thought one phone call would be enough.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 21, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
They're scared to make that call
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 21, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather sell high on Crisp than sell low on DeJesus.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
What's the purpose of keeping DeJesus in 2011?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 21, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I like him.
I think he’ll be good in the second half. I’d rather he’s good with us than with someone else. And I don’t think he’ll fetch enough in trade anything that I’d want more than that.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
OK, in that case sure
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 21, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
He's also a guy I'd favor re-signing
But I happen to think he’s a good player suffering from “I guess I have to suck now, I just joined the A’s-itis.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
OF Re-Signings
So, we lose all our OF except Sweeney after this year… Willingham, DDJ, Crisp, CoJack and Matsui.
We probably need to re-sign one. I would be against re-signing more than one though because of the cost and the lack of value they provide.
Willingham is the one we should be trying to re-sign immediately after the trade deadline (until the trade deadline keep listening to offers…)
DDJ is a lost cause right now. Maybe he’ll be better next year, I dunno, but not willing to make a $6-$7M bet on that. Would rather re-sign Crisp before DDJ, at least he has shown the ability to be a league-average CF.
Matsui def gone.
CoJack? Melvin loves the guy and we might need a 1B
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 21, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Aren't DeJesus, Jackson, and Willingham
arbitration eligible? I thought Jackson had two more arb years and the others have one more.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Yep.
He’s exactly the kind of guy who the A’s can resign for pennies on the dollar. Assuming, of course, that this season is an aberration, and he hasn’t lost all talent.
He'll probably have a rebound year in 2012 with somebody
I’d just as soon it be us.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
you can't really sell lower than losing him for nothing at the end of the season...
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 21, 2011 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
are we even guaranteed that he will be type B?
And don’t you think we could get a guy in A ball for him that is better than what we would get with a 2nd round pick?
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 21, 2011 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather have the draft pick than the C prospect we could get for DeJesus
but I don’t want to offer him arbitration
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 21, 2011 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
he can't be this bad again... right?
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 21, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
He's not even close to losing type B status, despite his bad year
Plus I would expect his bat to start coming around. I think he is a better hitter than he has shown so far this year, and if the A’s offered arb and he accepted, I would be happy with that.
I too would be happy with arbitration for DeJesus.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Should have also mentioned...
That teams trading for him know that if they offer arbitration they get that pick, so that value is probably built into any trade for DeJesus.
And last but not least, we actually have to offer arb to get the pick…and why would we want to offer arb to DeJesus? He might actually take it if there are no better offers out there…then we’re stuck with him at a high salary.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 21, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
How high a salary do you think he'd be likely to get in arb?
by Glorious Mundy on Jul 21, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
No, he won't get a really high salary
coming off such a down season. Meanwhile, he’s actually a very good player. I’d like to offer him arbitration and have him accept.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It won't be super high but probably 6.5-7 mil
which is pretty significant. I’m convinced that Cardenas, Jai Miller or Taylor could come up right now and be just as bad as he has been this year, at a fraction of the cost. I guess I don’t see the value he provides to this team going forward.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 21, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Obviously if DDJ is going to be as bad in 2012 as he has been in 2011
you don’t want to re-sign him. The bet is that he’ll be more like he was from 2008-10.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
well, then ideally you don't offer him arb and you sign him for cheaper
like was done with Cust.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 21, 2011 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
You have to offer him arb in order to get the draft pick if he doesn't sign
I’d like the A’s to get the draft pick, but that means “risking” that he accepts arb for 2012 — what I’m saying is I’d be more than fine with it if he did just that, as he figures to be a lot better than the A’s alternative options for 2012.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think what was done with Cust was a mistake.
In order to save a few bucks, we totally jerked Cust around. I think that’s why he didn’t want to come back.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Cust is done
He lost his power and is nothing more than a walk or out. Many fans still hope to see the old Cust but that looks like the past. He will be out of baseball next year. Hopefully we will not be saying the same thing about Barton next year.
DDJ's BABIP is a massive red flag that he's having an unlucky year.
Only problem is that a LOT of hitters tend to have this issue when coming here. If he can fix it, he’s a fine player, if not, we have seen what happens.
seriously
I just want to see some trades happen. I’m easy to please. Anything besides the product this year should be better.
"Whether they find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet." - Jack Handey
by bluthbanana20 on Jul 21, 2011 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Brace yourselves
This team will have a very different look in 10 days. Gio and Cahill are the only ones that should be off-limits.
Does anyone know
If the A’s could acquire Pence without giving up either Gonzalez or Cahill?
I am thinking a possibility of combining Adrian Cardenas, Max Stassi and a couple other prospects?
Yes, I just did Twitter. Follow me for ultra intelligent insight.
"I am our future, forget Kory"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 21, 2011 1:04 PM PDT reply actions
They can't. Not with those guys at least.
Cardenas has been okay in AAA, basically league average with the bat, but he apparently has no defensive home. He hasn’t been playing 3B or 2B, but for whatever reason, he’s been in LF or DHing. Stassi’s been awful when he’s played and he hasn’t even played since May. Maybe if the “couple other prospects” included Green/Choice and Krol/Griffin.
Regardless, the A’s are going to start unloading players like crazy, and I don’t think Pence makes a lot of sense for Oakland, who is already down two starting pitchers for 2012. The Astros could probably trade him to a desperate contender and get more anyway.
Seems unlikely
A lot of the talk suggests that Houston looks at Pence as a “face of the franchise” type guy and would need to get a some major pieces in return to seriously consider moving him. Maybe you could cobble together a decent package if you started with Michael Choice, a Texas guy with his type of power might appeal to the Astros.
Also, just echoing what Nate managed to get in before me, I wouldn’t consider Stassi as much of an incentive in any potential deal. He had some nice scouting reports when he has drafted but any luster he retained through his poor pro performance is probably gone right now due to the serious injury. In fact I don’t think the A’s could even trade Stassi while he is on the DL and I don’t know that he would be healed enough in 6 months to be used as a PTBNL.
Oakland probably COULD get Pence with
a crazy stupid offer that doesn’t include Gio or Cahill, but it would never happen.
Oakland and Houston aren’t a good trade match-up at all right now. The players the A’s have to offer are not what Houston wants. What Houston does want is what Oakland is short on.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
unfortunately the thiing Oakland is short on, is the reason why we are struggling.
SHORT ON TALENT.
by theblackpearl on Jul 21, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He would be a perfect fit for Oakland
However, as with you guys I really doubt they could or would acquire his services. Just wondering what it would actually take to pry him from Houston
Yes, I just did Twitter. Follow me for ultra intelligent insight.
"I am our future, forget Kory"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 21, 2011 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Well
Jon Heyman
asking price so prohibitive on pence teams are sure he’ll remain w/ #astros.
I’m guessing that means a LOT.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
No doubt!
I like hunter Pence but if the A’s were gonna make a fucking A deal for an outfielder, I’d have to go with my ultimate trade fantasy in one Mr. Matt Kemp.
Drool……..
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
ONE MILLION DOLLARS
"Whether they find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet." - Jack Handey
by bluthbanana20 on Jul 21, 2011 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Totally blu!
HEHE!!!!!!!
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
for one year of him?
They are shooting for the moon unnecessarily.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Ah, my bad
Still, it’s not like he’s helping a 55 win team. Might as well unload him for what they can get.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Ya I don't see the point of keeping Pence either
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 22, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
had nothing to check last night
so bored. I hope today (friday) holds more in store on the trade market, but my feeling is teams will wait and see through the weekend. For some it will be a big decision for in-or-out:
White Sox (5 gm out) @ Cleveland (0.5 gm out)
Slegna (3 gm out) @ Orioles
Braves (WC lead) @ Reds (4 gm out)
Cardinals (3 gm out) @ Pirates (Div lead)
Rockies @ Dbacks (4 gm out)
Rays (7.5 gm out) @ Royals
Tigers (Div lead) @ Twins (6 gm out)
Brewers (Div lead) @ Giants (Div lead)
So that’s 13 teams who are looking for upgrades, however if the Rays, Twins, Reds or White Sox get swept this weekend it could be their time to throw in the towel. If that happens, the fire sale begins and our players lose trade value.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
straight up
If the Reds are considering moving Mesorasco for Shields, we gotta get in on this shit. Sorry Gio.
who is mesorasco and why is Gio worth trading for him?
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 22, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
You'd think they could get more for Gio than TB could for Shields just because of
contract status. Interesting gamble by the Reds if they do it though.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 22, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
if they are indeed interested in Crisp
I wonder if we could package the two and just rape the whole farm.
Actually I think Shields might have a better contract situation
I think he is actually under contract for three more years at a fairly reasonable price while Gio is about to enter his arbitration years and just made an All-Star game. I’m not sure but I think Gio has the potential to be a bigger financial burden over the next three years.
Hmm....Shields's options are at $7M, $9M and $12M
I’m not sure Gio’s going to get that much. Cahill’s 3 arb seasons were bought out at a total of $17M, plus Gio has a 4th season of control.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 22, 2011 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmm, Shields is making more than I thought
For some reason I had it in my head that he was on a fairly cheap deal, maybe I was thinking about Ubaldo.
sorry I didn't mean it as a sarcastic spelling comment. I really don't know who the guy is...
Any good MLB comps?
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 22, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not a big comp guy
but a power hitting RH catcher. A JP Arencibia, that can actually, you know, hit.
seems like gio is worth more...esp because C is not our biggest need.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 22, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Two of Devin's Top 3 PECOTA comps are Jeff Mathis and Ryan Braun, so
I feel confident in saying he’s somewhere in that neighborhood
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 22, 2011 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So you're saying he has Jeff Mathis' defense and Ryan Braun's offense?
Trade for him now!
Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!
by UrgentMirth on Jul 22, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Unless of course it's the other way around in which case he'd be the worst player of all time
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 22, 2011 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Im not saying we do it
Im just saying, why not be open to the possibility. if we could get alonso, mesoraco/grandal, sappelt, travis wood, etc… for a package of Gio and Crisp, you’d be a fool not to at least consider it.
I hate to keep bursting bubbles
but the A’s aren’t gonna be making any blockbuster moves in the next ten days. Not a peep about Gio or Cahill has been mentioned anywhere, by anyone except by people on AN.
Ok, I get it. This team is not interesting. The trade deadline is the last chance for the 2011 A’s to be interesting in any real way (unless you find the development of Jemile, along with the prospect of seeing Michael Taylor and Chris Carter and the MLB level interesting, which I kind of do).
Come August 1st we’re going to be sludging through another 2 months of completely meaningless baseball, for a 5th straight year. As such, we want something exciting to happen to hold us over until the offseason. But there’s no chance the A’s rebuild their organization in the next week and a half. In this case, interesting to a bunch of hardcore fans on the internet =/= good for the franchise. There’s a very very very small chance they even decide to rebuild this winter.
So yeah, I understand the prospect/rebuild fetishism on this site right now, but discussing Gio and Cahill’s worth on the trade value is pointless. Fun, but pointless.
Haren yes
Swisher not really.
Also, those were offseason moves, not on-the-move pennant race trades.
Also, moves of Haren/Swisher magnitude are incredibly rare, even for this team (the A’s have done stuff that big like twice in the past decade, when you include the Hudson/Mulder trades).
Also, the 2007 A’s didn’t have the young pitching the 2011 A’s and beyond do (the 2007 A’s were completely devoid of young talent, anywhere).
You're saying there's a more than 50% chance the A's try to build around
Gio and Cahill? If so, we’re in for a very long series of losing seasons.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 22, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, a good chance in fact.
I remember in 2008 thinking “The Giants are gonna build around Tim Lincecum an Matt Cain? Why not deal them for a haul of prospects?” I was young and stupid to say that.
Building around talented young pitching is easier than it seems.
Are you saying Gio and Cahill are as good as Lincecum and Cain?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 22, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
No
but they’re pretty damn good nonetheless. Lincecum is obviously much better than the other three, but Cain/Gio/Cahill are on the same level.
Cahill is not as good as the other 3.
Anderson+Gio are who we need to look at long term. Cahill needs to be traded, he cant pitch away from Oakland.
Seriously. I'll bet Cahill outperforms Anderson this year AND next!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Splits don't seem big enough to be all that significant
Cahill’s number home and away:
FIP 4.40(h) 4.75(a)
xFIP 4.14(h) 4.33(a)
K% 14.9%(h) 14.0%(a)
BB% 8.8%(h) 9.3%(a)
The only real large difference between Cahill’s numbers home and away appears to be his left on base percentage, and I’m not sure how much that reflects a real skill.
Even then, he's only been in the league for a bit.
I’m guessing that’s not enough to quantify the size of that split, although I’m not sure. L/R splits take a while, and I’m guessing H/R splits are similar.
Their probably are some issues
I just thought it was a good idea to clarify because, looking back, it wasn’t clear from my original comment where those numbers came from.
And the specific consequence of this
is that 1-2 horrible starts will make the whole sample look worse than it is. Cahill has been nails in TEX, for example, in a tough park against a good offense.
Considering most pitchers are worse on the road than they are at their home, Cahill’s splits are unremarkable as long as he’s not at Yankee Stadium.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes (I was there!)
My point is that Cahill has done nothing as an “away pitcher” to suggest he particularly struggles on the road.
Mostly he has pitched well on the road, and even better at home — which is partly the Coliseum and partly that most pitchers are better on the mound they know in the city they know with more rest/less travel in their immediate past.
Overall he’s been a very good pitcher. And he’s 23. Now learn how to beat the Yankees and we’re set.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
CaHill is good but..
I don’t see him a s a big game pitcher or someone you can trust in the playoffs. He loses it to much in big games. His BB are a big concern. No trust in his pitches.
If we don't spend money on guys like Fuentes and Balfour again
We could actually sign a real hitter. I hope Billy realizes that the all-pitch no-hit team experiment is all but over.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Well to be fair
The money wasn’t spent on those relievers instead of hitters. Both Fuentes and Balfour were signed late in the off-season with money the A’s had leftover. There were no hitters to give that money to so they used it to strengthen the bullpen.
Would have rather offered that money to Beltre
(still bitter)
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Well that's fine, but that's a completely different complaint
You could probably make a number of different arguments for why the A’s failed to get any good hitters during the off-season. But to suggest that they failed because of some active preference to sign middle relievers is awfully disingenuous given the timing of the deals.
I didn't suggest anything about the timing, I'm well aware of it
I would just prefer my team NOT overpay for relief help, regardless.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
We aimed for Beltre & Berkman
Beane knew they would take us to the playoffs, and they would have. Instead we got Willingham & Matsui, oof.
no such thing
completely meaningless baseball
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
by iglew on Jul 22, 2011 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The A’s have gotten multiple hits on Coco Crisp, including the Indians and Reds. But they’ve yet to receive one call on Hideki Matsui, who recently hit his 500th home run in pro baseball. Among their relievers, they don’t seem anxious to trade Grant Balfour but are taking calls on Michael Wuertz, Brian Fuentes and Craig Breslow, who’d fit both the Yankees and Red Sox.
Grant Balfour must be wondering
what he did to deserve this.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
I guess they could just keep Matsui and trade everyone else.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 22, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Is Heyman surprised that the A's haven't received calls about Matsui?
That’s like being surprised that the Mariners weren’t receiving calls about Jose Vidro in 2008.
Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!
by UrgentMirth on Jul 22, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
That's going a little too far
Matsui does have a pretty excellent track record before this year, and was World Series MVP not two years ago. I would think some contender would call just to see whether they could get him for basically nothing.
by Glorious Mundy on Jul 22, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
that just makes the declining trajectory that much more scary, if you're looking at it glass 1/2 empty
by asfansince1989 on Jul 22, 2011 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
If anyone is stupid enough to call on Fuentes as it says above
then Beane should pay them to take him so we can avoid 2012 with him in what was a very dumb signing.
I would like to see us keep Bailey and Balfour but of course if the price is right then go for it.
Yeah I wonder how much of Fuentes' salary we'll have to take on
if we can find someone to take him off our hands…
Kiper+Fosse=Mute
by CorpseOfChavez on Jul 22, 2011 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I think we could possibly trade Matsui for a bag of balls
in August to some team that wants a late inning pinch hitter for when rosters expand…
Kiper+Fosse=Mute
by CorpseOfChavez on Jul 22, 2011 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I am wondering if, the way players play after they leave Oakland, if GM's would actually discount the time in
Oakland, for established players.
If anything, other GMs will put MORE emphasis on it.
Anything they can use to drive down the cost of players for them, they’ll use.
Rasmus
Not sure if this was mentioned, but Beane should look at what the asking price is for this guy – The cards are willing to listen to deals on him and want to improve their team by trading him – which might mean no big time prospects. Given them Harden, Willinghman and a RP.
Lance "you sunk my" Blankenship
I don't know if Mozeliak would ever answer a phone call from Beane again if he made that offer.
There’s a big debate on AN about how good Rasmus actually is, but the Cardinals could easily deal for a lower-tier SP like Harden by sending prospects. If they’re sending Rasmus to anybody, they’re going to want a good young starter like Cahill back in return.
yep
while I’m on the “get rasmus” wagon, i would not give up Cahill/Gio to get him. Ross maybe? Apparently other teams have inquired about him which only bolsters the GM’s confidence that Rasmus is worth more than his 2011 stats would indicate. At this point my belief is the asking price will be too high and the Cardinals stick with him and pick up some bench players that don’t help them into the playoffs.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
I don't see Rasmus making much sense for the A's and I don't see anyone other than
Cahill or Gio making sense for the Cardinals. A trade to the Braves for someone like Jair Jurrjens makes more sense to me from the perspective of both of those teams.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 23, 2011 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Hit F3 and type in "Rasmus" bro.
Like 40% of this thread is about Colby Rasmus. Somehow. Might as well talk about leprechauns and fauns while we’re at it.
You're a real wet blanket, aren't you?
It’s a trade thread. It’s one thing to correct people when they have unrealistic ideas about what various player contracts are worth, but it’s another to try to shut down any speculation or wishful thinking about anything that hasn’t been approved by mention in MLB Trade Rumors.
I hate to think what you’d be like in the prospect threads.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
by iglew on Jul 23, 2011 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Fair enough.
I’m not a totally regular commenter here, so I’m not necessarily in tune with the tone of these threads. I will say that when I was a lurker last year, I openly laughed at every off-season plan that started with “sign either Crawford or Werth” as if that were a possibility. But I guess if people want to have fun thinking about getting Colby Rasmus for Cliff Pennington and Andrew Bailey, have at it. Just don’t be disappointed when it doesn’t happen.
Having fun thinking about getting good players?
On a FAN SITE? The horror.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The same way 8 year olds have fun thinking about getting ponies.
Then they’re disappointed on Christmas morning.
Not me.
I want Hannahan, Crosby, E-Patsy,( the list goes on and on). Why would I hope for better players?
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Because you care about puppies and babies?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Please
can something just happen already?
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
This.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
8 days.
And the closer we get, the more likely a GM concedes the deal Beane wants (Beane’s good at holding out for what he wants). Latest rumor has BOS interested in Harden.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Trade him now, for anything Boston wants to give us.
I am in stunned disbelief that anyone wants Rich Harden.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 24, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Boston has a lot of good outfielders, both prospect-wise and in the majors.
They apparently are looking at Breslow, too. If they’re willing to trade one of them, I’d jump on that train in a heartbeat.
So what?
We only have him for the rest of the season anyway. Let someone else have healthy Harden, while we bring back Ross or Godfrey or whoever.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Have you been talking to Lenscrafters?
"Never have a motto, that's what I always say" - Me
http://marcel-oehler.marcellosendos.ch/comics/ch/1986/05/19860506.gif
"I Hate SF" - The Chosen One.
If the A's acquired Carlos Lee from Houston to play 1B, just think how big he'd get once he
started eating In-N-Out on a full time regular basis???
Every man for himself...
So, the Red Sox have reportedly asked on Harden, and have interest in Breslow.
I don’t know how serious their interest is, but if the A’s could get an outfielder from them, I’d be ecstatic. Crawford and Ellsbury appear to be fixtures for the next several years, but they have a serious crop of young outfielders. They also have Josh Reddick, who hit 14 homeruns in 52 games at AAA and is a great defender, who’s currently Boston’s 4th outfielder, but will probably be a starter after Drew leaves this offseason.
In the minors, they have:
Ryan Kalish (who’s probably better than Reddick, but currently injured)
Bryce Brentz (21 HR, 1.005 OPS between low and high-A)
Brandon Jacobs (14 HR, 22 SB in low-A, 20 years old)
Alex Hassan (.304/.430/.459 for AA Portland)
Chih-Hsien Chiang (.332/.387/.648 with 17 HR for AA Portland)
I would take any and all of them. Chiang, the 23 year old with the 1.035 OPS in AA, is probably the worst prospect of all them, since he’s not a great defender and this is his second go around at Portland and these are far and away his best numbers in his career. On the other hand, Oakland has Choice and Green, who may or may not that great in CF, and nobody at the MLB level. If the A’s are going to start talking to Boston about Harden and Breslow, which they should, getting one of their outfielders should be their top priority.
I don't think, traditionally, that the best team in the AL trades rookies OPSing 1030.
I may be wrong.
then why tease me!
with all that loot out there, you’d think they’d be willing to give up something in order to win another World Series title.
when John Lackey is your #5 #2 starter, you have a problem.
Harden can win, as can McCarthy or Moscose. Gimme some SUGAAA!!!!
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
Chiang and Hassan are probably the only realistic possibilities out of those
I’d love to somehow pry Lavarnway away from them. May not be a catcher, but he is having a damn fine year with the bat.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
If there's a remote possibility that he can just sit behind the plate sometimes,
I doubt the Red Sox trade him. Saltalamacchia’s done pretty well but Varitek will be 40 next year so Boston will probably want to hang on to a cheap, young catcher. Even if he sucks at catching, he could be a monster with the bat.
Also, Hassan numbers aren't as pretty as the other guys I mentioned
but he his walk rate is 15.9% and he has more walks than strikeouts. If the Red Sox would trade him, methinks Oakland should be the ones to acquire him.
It'd be like that time we got Youkilis from the Red Sox
Oh wait. That was the most depressing part of moneyball.
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
by A'sFanDFW on Jul 25, 2011 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Another option is Henry Ramos, who's 19 and in A ball. He's 2-4 years younger than most of those guys
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 24, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
How about sacramento native Lars Anderson?
He was like a top 50 prospect a few year ago, not sure what has happened since then. His K rate was a little high, but he has real power potential.
Anderson is blocked and I'm sure Boston would be open to moving him
but in his 200+ games for their AAA affiliate, he’s been slightly above average but not top-fifty-prospect-good. I’d rather have an outfielder.
Man, I just want something to happen
But especially a trade of one of the OFs so we can bring up Taylor and see what he can do. He does have 318/389/573 on the road (in my futile attempt to look on the bright side).
Btw, what’s up w/ Carter? He did go 4 for 6 today, but he’s been largely stinking up the joing and has ZERO walk since he’s been back down.
After looking into the A's 2012 payroll situation,
I think the A’s strategy should be to use Crisp and DeJesus to land 2 or 3 zero service time bullpen arms. The A’s bullpen is getting expensive, and they have nobody really waiting in the wings if they flip Breslow/Ziggy/Wuertz except for Magnuson and Brett Hunter. They’re running low on ML-ready bullpen arms. DeJesus and Crisp could each be worth, like, a couple of 24ish year old guys at AA-AAA right now who profile as set up men. I know Cleveland is loaded with guys like that.
Flip Crisp or DeJesus to Cleveland for two of Zach Putnam, Josh Judy, Rob Bryson, and Chen Lee.
Flip Breslow, Wuertz, and maybe Ziegler if you can get a decent package. The 2012 salary relief alone will be worth it.
A 2012 bullpen of
Bailey
Balfour
Devine
De Los Santos
Fuentes
Magnuson
Putnam/Lee/Hunter/Bryson
would be cheap and good.
I wouldn't mind seeing what Neil Wagner can do
He’s kind of old but he’s been very good in AA and AAA this year and supposedly is regularly in the upper 90’s with his fastball.
I'd keep Ziggy, because he won't be that expensive,
he can go 2 IP, and he’s still young and looking like he can continue to be a very good reliever.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
His rubber arm is indeed valuable.
But his inability to get lefties out is a problem. He’s a borderline trade candidate for me. I’d be happy to keep him. Wuertz and Breslow should pack their bags though. Wuertz especially.
Unfortunately, Wuertz crashed just at the wrong time
His numbers were looking great for awhile, but he’s been abysmal lately, probably diminishing his trade value. Breslow has to have some value as a lefty, though his splits this year may also limit the appeal. Hopefully, teams are taken in by the fact that Fuentes has been pretty solid the past month. I’d prefer to dump him and keep Breslow.
OK I just want to go one the record
as saying that if in fact the Cards are willing to deal Rasmus for Matt Thornton and two months of Edwin Jackson, then we should absolutely get it on that, even though we don’t have anybody in the Edwin Jackson-mold.
Tyson Ross.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Edwin Jackson-mold
meaning an immediate rotation upgrade with proven MLB success. They’re trading for two months of Edwin Jackson, whereas they’d be getting 5 years of Tyson Ross. If the Cards are looking for a short-term upgrade at SP, then they’d probably prefer Jackson to Ross. I have no idea why the Cards want Jackson, though.
Sounds to me like that rumor is bogus
the Cards aren’t trading Rasmus for Jackson or Thornton, with or without a minor leaguer added. My guess: Total nonsense.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Rich Harden?
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
.
Confirmed that first-rounder @SonnyGray2 is in Oakland today for a physical. Announcement could come later today.
Great news
Gray probably immediately becomes our top pitching prospect
*Insert something witty here*. Oh, and Stanfurd Sucks.
Better news....
Conor Jackson traded to an unknown team for a peanut butter sandwich. Beane reportedly was trying to get a PBJ, but couldn’t get any other GM’s to go for that deal!
Preposterous
It really bugs me when people repeat unfounded rumors, especially when they are completely unrealistic. Only an A’s fan would believe that Conor Jackson is worth a PB sandwich.
I got the info from a reliable source...
I didn’t say they used Jif peanut butter though, it was probably a generic brand.
I've heard of PTBNL, but PBJ?
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Jul 25, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure where to post this but do people think Sogard is better than Penny right now?
I kind of hope Penny lands on the DL with a minor injury (like Ellis did) so we can get an extended look. At least it should be an open competition in spring training.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 25, 2011 10:57 AM PDT reply actions
I can't understand why...
Pennington is having so much trouble with the glove to throwing hand transfer. Seems to be really sloppy.
Some Atlanta sources tweeting....
that the Braves have acquired Josh Willingham from the A’s. No confirmation available.
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