Trade Deadline Thread
by hero66 on Jul 17, 2011 9:30 AM PDT
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As the rumors begin swirling, I figure it's a good time to create this thread to gather and discuss all the trade chatter leading up to the July 31st non-waiver deadline. A few things on Willingham and Bailey:
FOX Sports' Jon Paul Morosi reports that the Braves are not considering a trade for the A's Josh Willingham.
The Braves want a right-handed hitting outfielder, so Willingham is an obvious fit, but he's evidently not under consideration. Ryan Ludwick, Hunter Pence and B.J. Upton would seem to be options for the Braves, but it's unclear at this point who their top target is.
ESPN's Buster Olney reports that the Pirates have contacted the A's about a possible trade for Josh Willingham.
The Bucs are seeking an upgrade in the outfield, and Willingham represents a sensible option. He's not having a very good year in Oakland, but his track record suggests he'd give the Pirates a better option for right field than the Garrett Jones/Matt Diaz platoon.
The A's are semi-willing to talk about closer Andrew Bailey, but they want a massive return from the Rangers that includes first baseman Chris Davis, top prospect Martin Perez and one more good Minor League pitcher. Bailey can't be a free agent until 2014, and the Rangers have been told that the A's need three players back in any deal
So what do you think, AN? Should we deal Willingham and Bailey? If so, to and for whom?
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Pirates deal could be possible
I wouldn’t mind seeing the A’s get Garret back in the deal because of the lack of 1b in the A’s system.
Agreed, Garrett Jones is a nice fill-in at 1B for the time being.
Certainly better than Conor Jackson, who’s a bench player at best.
Jones not great
but how sad our 1b options rea right now he would be a good plug for a couple of years.
Getting Jones in a trade would be incredibly dumb
He’s basically a 1-2 WAR 1Bman. Carter or Barton would do the same if not better at this point. I would much rather hold onto Willingam and get a draft pick or two from whoever signs him this offseason.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Uh, Carter & Barton CANT do the same or better, that's why they're at AAA.
Both those guys are under replacement level options this season.
Despite Barton forgetting how to hit,
Barton’s and Jones’ OPS from the last two years is pretty similar, and Barton is a much better defender.
Jones is an upgrade over Barton, I’m not arguing that with how Barton performed this year, but I don’t think a marginal upgrade a 1B will really help the team. I would rather the picks, which are a much bigger risk, but with more potential to help the team.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 17, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Ok, regardless of the fact that you're pulling from a SSS
Both have significantly greater potential than Jones. Also, why are you covering another complementary piece that’s hardly an improvement. That’s exactly the mentality that’s gotten this organization to this point. I’d much rather take the chance
of a high risk/high reward project than another guy who we know exactly what we’re gonna get out of, which is basically league average.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
The sample is not that small.
Daric Barton had 236 at-bats for Oakland this year and he was awful. Since then he’s had 61 more in Sacramento and he’s bad there, too.
I don’t think it’s so crazy to judge Barton based on how he’s done this year. I hope he gets it back soon, but it looks to me like 2010 was the fluke year, not a forecast of his potential.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
300 ABs is a small sample.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Even when we are comparing players with similar sample size?
Garret Jones has 266 ABs this year.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Pretty much.
Barton had 680 PAs last year with a .359 wOBA. He had 190 the year before with a .342 wOBA. Why are those the fluke and 280 PAs this year are the real thing?
More than likely it’s some mixture of all of them, which is why you look at his whole career .331 wOBA. Slightly above league average.
Same applies with Jones. His 260 PAs this year: .328 wOBA. 650 PAs last year: .314. 350 PAs in 09: .396
There’s basically nothing to suggest that Jones is any better than Barton, and he’s 4 years older.
Aside from comparing the two of them, there’s really not any point in asking for Jones back in any sort of deal with the Pirates. He’s a stopgap type of player, and including him in a deal just takes away from the “good” prospects that would be asked for.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Plus barton is a much better defensive 1B...
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 18, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Too bad this philosophy isn't used when we discuss Kouz.
His 2011 numbers are MUCH worse than his career numbers, but they are used to validate his downhill “slide”. I’ve even heard here, that his 2011 defense is his true performance, and not his above average 2009-10. Interesting.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Yes, it is.
Kouz’ career wOBA is .312 — that’s the biggest sample we have, which is his whole big league career.
Year by year, it’s gone like this, starting in 2007 and going through 2011:
.339, .316, .312, .296, .273
Now, granted, a lot of people smarter than I am will be quick to jump and say looking at trends like that is bad analysis, which it is, but you also can’t look at those numbers and think that’s a guy who is going to improve.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
This also says the he is more likely to put up a .312, instead of another .273
As bad as everyone says his 2011 defense is, he has a +3.4 UZR/150. This is an aberration, given his career number of 5.9.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
He started his career good, has gotten worse each season, and you think he'll turn around and improve
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
His defense has improved every year until this one, and you think he is over the hill. and due for the scrap heap
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Cause it's not good enough to offset his offense.
Much like people think about Barton.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
I will give you that he isn't in the upper eschelon of 3rd basemen.
However, his WAR was in the top half of all 3rd basemen in 2010, and only 4 3rd basemen had WARs of higher than 5 that year.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Oh, and from 2007-2010, he also ranked at #12 in WAR for 3rd basemen.
Which means he has been in the top half of 3rd basemen for his entire career. 2011 is a aberration. Yes, the A’s will probably dump him, and someone will get a good, steady player, who is better than most.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
So you're saying his past WAR is the same
as his “true talent”?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 19, 2011 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
What I am saying. is that he isn't the "bum" that many here think.
He is a good, steady 3rd baseman, who is worth having on an MLB roster, UNLESS, you do have one of the top level players in your system. Which we don’t.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Is your opinion based on his past WAR?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions
It is based on his career WAR, and how it ranks with the rest of the 3rd basemen during that period.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
For comparison, Kouz has averaged 2.5 WAR per season, and Willingham has averaged 2.3 WAR.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Kouz also plays (played) 140+ games every year
Willingham’s career high is 144.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
The games he sat didn't help the team win/lose.
A team of players who average 2.5 WAR should win approx. 87.5 games, and a team who’s players average 2.3 should win 82.5 games( War*25players+ 25 wins for replacement players).
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
FWIW the average production for
each position other than pitcher and DH is about 2.5 WAR.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Isn't that the average for MLB starters?
This isn’t the same as the average MLB player.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Therefore you believe that past WAR
represents his true talent?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
To be honest, I don't know what his true talent level is.
I do know that this year isn’t indicative of his true talent. So players are allowed to have off years and some aren’t. Kouz’ known production are ignored, while others’ “prospects” (read guess), mean more. I don’t agree with that.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
He WAR has also increased every year(-0.2, 2.4, 2.8, 2.7, 3.0,) until 2011 as well.
So, yes he has improved throughout his career.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Which has more predictive value?
236 ABs in the current year, or 556 ABs the prior year?
That’s a non-rhetorical question. I really don’t know.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Oops, I should be using PAs not ABs.
So 280 this year vs 686 last year.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I'd have to go do a search, but I think it was something like 250 ABs before you could pay attention to single season numbers
So it’s quite possible that this year Barton was going to keep having a bad year and it wasn’t just being unlucky.
Unfortunately that was also true for most of the rest of the offense as well.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
But what I'm wondering is
how current year numbers relate to past year numbers.
Obviously you want a bigger sample so you include as many years as you can, but at the same time more recent numbers will be more predictive than more distant numbers. I’m wondering what the fall-off curve is like.
Has this been studied? We could use data on all ABs for all players, so a thorough analysis should be possible.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I agree, I don't want Jones back in a deal for Willingham.
A stopgap 1B that is not a standout player is not what this team needs. I would much rather a prospect or a draft pick also.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 17, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Garret Jones is a starter...
I doubt they are going to be willing to trade one of their better bats for another bat.
Not if they get Willingham
That is the reason they are looking at Willingham to take over LF where Jones is.
Then they move Jones to 1B because Lyle Overbay sucks.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
yup.
"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 17, 2011 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
And this, they will probably want to keep Jones, anyway.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 17, 2011 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's Sickles prospect list for the Pirates
They only have 1 can’t miss guy, Tailon, and seeing as he’s a SP, they aren’t going to move him. Click here.
Starling Marte intruiges me
Doesn’t walk much but his hit tool is outstanding
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
In fact
he doesn’t strike out much either, is very fast, and is a great defensive CF’er as well. I wouldn’t mind landing him at all.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
Sure, I'd also take Luis Heredia
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 17, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I doubt they'd trade Heredia.
He signed for $2.6M. It’d be like the A’s trading Ynoa for for a half season of Josh Willingham. I don’t really see that happening.
True
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 17, 2011 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Why settle when you don't have to make a move?
Insist on Allie, Sanchez, or Owens as part of any deal, adding a reliever (which PIT could use) to even up a trade.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think Huntington's ripe for the picking.
If the rumors were that he was seriously considering that Jeff Mathis – Garrett Jones offer then youd have to think Beane is licking his chops at seeing what he could get from him. Adding more players (relievers probably) would also thicken the pot for us.
A reliever may be moved soon
I don’t really see Bailey being moved but a Devine or Ziegler could be a option even Balfour . I would hope Weurtz or Feuntes but that would be more likely a waiver pick up. Ziegler could bring a good B type prospect.
Reportedly Beane asked for Martin Perez, Chris Davis and another blue chip pitching prospect from Texas for Bailey.
As he should have.
If the A's somehow
were to talk the rangers into Davis, Perez, and Profar, I hope the A’s would jump on that. Highly doubt that would happen, but how excellent would that be?
by asyouwish33 on Jul 17, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Well the romor said another pitcher, not Profar. So probably Erlin or someone like that.
I have absolutely no qualms in giving Texas our closer if it means decimating their farm.
Why are we getting jazzed about one of the pieces being Chris Davis?
they guy flat out sucks.
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
by cityplANner on Jul 17, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
this.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
No. We are jazzed about Perez and possibly Erlin.
But FWIW Davis is only 25 (as old as Barton) and has 21 HR in 42 G with a 1200 OPS at AAA and an 817 OPS in 21 big league games this year. He’s much, much better 1B option than Conor Jackson. He’s actually done what’s necessary to warrant a look as an everyday 1B for the rest of the year.
IIRC he was still K'ing in a 3rd of his ABs
AAAA
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
I will happily trade K's for HR's.
As of right now, we have 1 HR out of the 1B spot this year.
But Davis is hardly the centerpiece of that deal, Perez would be.
A player whose 2010 is better than any year Davis has had?
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
Wouldn't it be awesome if the A's did acquire Davis
and then decided to move Barton to 3B because there’s nothing to lose? That’d be cool.
FWIW as much as people seem to hate Chris Davis
He owns identical career H/A splits: a 763 OPS, so he’s not a “Texas hitter”.
He also has a career 911 OPS in the Coli. lol why hasn’t been tried to buy this guy yet?
Exactly.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 17, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
I still think Davis has something left to show, and Texas has kind of jerked him around (although, as they should considering they’re a playoff team).
Relievers are still overvalued and at this point if we could get some legit hitting prospects out of it, then it’s certainly a better
move for the team going forward.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I saw that too
Just hate to see Bailey on the rangers. The player Beane should go after is Rasmus of the Cards. He is having a down year and this may be the lowest trade value now.
has St. Louis cleared up their closer-by-committee issue
since demoting Ryan Franklin?
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
by cityplANner on Jul 17, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Nope. Still blowing late leads like they're going out of style.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Even though I'm not as high on Rasmus as you are
this would be a phenomenal trade. Even if we threw something else in there….
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah no problem giving them Outman and/or Harden too.
Their SP situation is looking a little dire for supposedly being one of the best teams in the game.
If we were somehow able to obtain Rasmus for Bailey
and got a decent return on Willingham we could significantly hange the state of the farm system.
I think Bailey needs to go to whomever gives the most up, because I think he’ll fetch a decent return, and give us a real reason to actually watch this team next year…
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
good. I don't like them.
"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 17, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Me neither
Go Brewrates!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You like yellow/gold a lot, huh?
"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 17, 2011 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Admit it,
you dislike the Cardinals just because of a certain pointy-headed outfielder there.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
That has to be admitted?
Yes, yes, and yes. There — I’ve seriously implied it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Willingham Should Be Soon
He is one of our more attractive trade chips, and could be a good fit for a couple of teams.
Willingham - not having a good year in Oakland
That is a very simplistic view of the situation right now. He’s actually having quite a good year for a number 6 hitter put in the number 3 hole.
His power numbers are there considering it is Oakland
The only legit hitter on the team besides Weeks. With the lack of power hitters this year Willingham will be traded for a quality return. Sad to see him leave but even if the A’s offer arb to him he will sign for a longer term deal.
That's why
Unless we’re blown away by a deal, or we just want to be nice to Josh, I’d keep ahold of him and take the two draft picks.
by asyouwish33 on Jul 17, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Deal him and then re-sign him in the off-season
Buuuuaaaaahahaha.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Pick. Singular. He's a Type B right now.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Type B right now.
He started the season Type A, and most people seem to think if he finishes the season healthy, he’ll probably end up Type A again.
And I think some desperate team
Will be willing to give up a pick for his bat…
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
Add in the fact that he plays most his games in Oakland and has no protection at all. And that .761 OPS isn’t that bad.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jul 17, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed, he's not having a typical Willingham year
but he doesn’t have a Adam Dunn in the lineup to protect him. His power numbers haven’t dipped too much despite being in a pitchers park. The only stat where he has fallen is his patience. When you don’t get anything to hit, you might go fishing for something out of the zone. Just saying, that is a very simple statement that doesn’t tell the whole story.
Alright.
He doesn’t have a Adam Dunn in the lineup to protect him.
There’s no such thing as lineup protection. Intuitively, yeah. You’d think hitting between Albert Pujols and Matt Holliday would help you out, but it doesn’t. Study after study has come up with the conclusion that there is no such thing.
The only stat where he has fallen is his patience.Here is a list of Willingham’s 2011 stats that are the worst since 2006 (when he became a full player): AVG, OBP, SLG, BB%, K%, and ISO. He’s definitely having the worst year of his entire career.
To your first point:
there seem to be clashing arguments. Will Carroll stipulates that a hitter will see the same types of pitches in the same ration regardless of who is hitting behind him, but then later states that situationally, this could change depending on the count and who’s on deck, i.e.
In theory, a guy with a 3-2 count and Michael Bourn on deck could see a tricky slider designed to strike him out, but which may walk him. With Manny, they don’t want to put someone on ahead of him, so Ethier may be more likely to see fastballs in these types of situations.
To you second point, and this is my point in general, the lack of production from the whole lineup could be a detriment to Josh’s production, but in spite of that, he is putting up respectable numbers. As for AVG: Josh is consistently around .250-.260 and he is approaching that number with his recent hitting barrage. I already pointed out that he has dipped in the BB and K rates. His ISO is identicle to last year, thus showing that he actually is showing more power due to the dip in average and patience. Of course, if you are a WAR enthusiast, then I can’t argue with that.
Like I said, I agee Josh isn’t having a great year, but to saying he isn’t having a good year doesn’t really reflect his offensive output for the team.
by asyouwish33 on Jul 17, 2011 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm actually going to change my mind on this
Though I do believe the poultry hitting is bringing down Josh’s numbers, that’s not really an excuse for Josh himself. So, yes, he’s not having a good year in Oakland, so far, but he is breaking out a bit though. Hopefully that either, boosts his trade value or brings him back to a Type A FA.
by asyouwish33 on Jul 17, 2011 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Now we're hitting chickens?
Or just a lot of fouls?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
By the way, you might want to add "Vol. 1" to the thread title
People love talking trades and there’s 2 weeks left. We’re going to need about 10 of these haha
Bailey's a really good reliever
but asking for two blue chip prospects and a MLB ready 1B/DH is ridiculous. It seems more like a starting point for negotiations than an actual demand. I’d prefer the A’s front office targeted on Jurickson Profar. The A’s are pretty barren when it comes to shortstops right now. Either way, Perez+ would still be an excellent deal.
Also, if the A's start dealing with Texas, they could demand Rougned Odor.
I know how much you guys like Rougned Odor.
by NateHST on Jul 17, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Closers under team control for 3+ years and still cheap command much more than they're actually worth on the trade market
while it may be a bit high of an askin price, I could certainly see it happening.
Thy said, Profar is absolutely the guy we should covet. I remember DFA bringing him up
over the offseason. Sounds like he could be Andrus with a better bat. If Texas thinks Elvis is their guy going forward, it’s a move we need to make.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually would want to resign Willingham
He’s one of the few hitters that would be open to it that can actually hit. He’s had a down year, but possesses an excellent track record and he’d be considerably cheap. I think he could be a valuable player for the A’s in the future, especially if the A’s could acquire 1-2 more bats.
I think the A’s are leaning towards keeping DeJesus though. His value is very very low and teams aren’t going to really go bending over backwards for him. The prospect you’d get back for him wouldn’t be as good as the potential pick.
"You need to get real!"
I'm all for trading Bailey too
He’s a great young closer, but I believe in the A’s ability to consistently pull diamonds out of the minor leagues. I think we need a plus hitter moreso than a closer.
Anybody think the Yankees would be willing to give up Jesus Montero? In the offseason, they were offering him for Joakim Soria. Bailey is cheaper and has been the better pitcher this year, plus he’s younger too.
"You need to get real!"
Montero scares me.
He could still be good with the bat but he’s a DH or poor 1Bman going forward. I’d much rather get a decent OFer or middle infielder with somewhat of a bat…
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
It'd be hard for me to turn down that trade if the Yankees came to me.
But their bullpen is sixth overall in terms of FIP, so it’s not a huge need for them. I could see them pursuing a starting pitcher though. The A’s could probably clear out their farm system if they wanted to.
I'm perpetually weary of their farm system though
Unless a guy is a sure thing, I subscribe to the theory that Yankees’ prospects get ovehyped by the fact that they’re Yankees.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Yankee prospects do garner some unfair attention
but the New York spends money everywhere, including on draftees and international amateurs. Montero, Sanchez, Betances, Banuelos are all really good prospects, future Yankees or not.
But Montero's bat has disappeared this year
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
And he's repeating the level
I still like Montero though. I’d be happy with him and a couple other pieces. Again, got to be blown away by an offer to trade Bailey, mostly due to the signed ball I got yesterday.
by asyouwish33 on Jul 17, 2011 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
He's been above league average and he's still only 21.
He’s been a top ten prospect for a couple of years, and seventy games of good-but-not-great is a really weak argument for writing him off.
For a guy whose value relies almost solely on his bat
He’s not exactly doing anything to excite anyone.
I’m not ready to write him off, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he isn’t anything special…
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 18, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
He's been outstanding every year before this
and his bat draws tremendous reviews. And like Nate said, he’s still 21 in AAA.
I’ve said it before, but it really is stunning how people so easily give up on young players these days.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
Again, though, I'm not ready to write him off
More pointing out the fact that his offensive numbers aren’t as spectacular when viewing him as a 1Bman or DH.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 19, 2011 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Montero is not gonna catch any more?
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 18, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Most scouts seem to think he'll ultimately end up at 1st or DHing
Also, teams like the Royals last year and Colorado this year have scoffed at deals with him as the centerpiece because they view him as such.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 18, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Olney said today
that the Rockies and Yankees never actually discussed players.
As for the Royals, we have no idea what went down there.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
To clarify: The Yankees did not offer Montero for Soria.
During last year’s trade deadline, there were reports that the Yankees made a concerted effort to get Soria and they even were willing to consider Montero as part of a larger package. Through the magic of the Internet rumor mill, this was morphed into the claim that the Yankees offered Montero for Soria straight up. There was no evidence for this whatsoever, but it got repeated often enough that it became an imagined fact. (Now, apparently, it has morphed further, since you’re placing the alleged offer in the off-season, when it was originally rumored in July of last year.)
We discussed this on AN in this thread and again in this one. This article traces the origin of the rumor in more detail.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
He is sensationally bad with the glove though.
If you are talking as using him as strict DH and blocking Carter some more, then that’s fine, but using him as a defender kills all his value.
This
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
You're sort of right.
Any team that covets Willingham knows they’re acquiring draft pick and that they’ll have to match the value of the pick plus a half season of Willingham. It goes without saying that you don’t trade Willingham unless the prospect is better than the potential draft pick. Prospects are a lot more valuable than draft picks though. I’d prefer a prospect who’s doing well in A+ or AA to a draft pick, a young player who’s probably four years away and is more or less crapshoot anyways.
Unfortunately, the A’s aren’t really in a position to compete in the next couple of years, so Willingham doesn’t mean a lot to them. Also, Olney has said Willingham definitely will be traded at some point, so you’re kind of hopelessly hoping for the A’s to re-sign him.
If a player is 4 years away and in high A or AA
Then he’s not a good prospect. 2 years max really…
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Ahh, I fucked that up.
I’d prefer a good prospect in high-A or AA over a draft pick. The draft pick being the young player who’s several years away and is more or less a crapshoot.
Profar ain't going to happen
Not unless Texas is taking profanely stupid pills.
And Davis shouldn’t happen. He’s shown zero ability to control the strike zone and I’m not just talking about the K’s. He doesn’t/can’t take a walk.
The power is enticing but the rest of the bat is worse than suspect.
I like the idea of pursuing Perez.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I don't think Davis is that bad.
I wouldn’t demand he be included in any deal, but he represents very little value to Texas and if they threw him in, I would take him. He’s only 25, and Texas has jerked him back and forth for the past four years.
As the 3rd piece... sure.
However, the article states “massive return” while naming Perez and Davis, plus an unnamed 3rd prospect. From my perspective, that places Davis as the 2nd integral piece. The no-name represents room for haggle between the A’s and Texas.
Again, maybe I’m reading something that isn’t really there.
But if Davis is a key piece then it’s a massively stupid position for the A’s to take.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I don't think you'rE reading into anything
I think Davis is another one of Beane’s prizes…
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
The other guy will probably be Erlin.
There’s no way Beane gives up a player like Bailey to a div rival without attempting to decimate their farm. Taking their 2 best pitching prospects = the only way it happens. Davis is just a moderately interesting guy who, along with Lastings Milledge, would probably be a couple of the better offense performers in this lineup if they were given everyday PT, and are certainly improvements over a few we have. Surprised Beane hasn’t tried to get either of them for like, cash or Powell or something.
we need to pick up the scratch and dent prospects as much as possible. Like Sizemore.
Low risk high potential reward.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 18, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Truthfully, I'm not sure Sizemore is high enough reward
for what the A’s really need. I do like him, but he’s not anywhere near the class of prospects we’re discussing on this thread.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
right but that is the best way to stock our farm system with good players.
Find undervalued commodities, basically.
Trading our best players for great minor leaguers seems like a recipe for disaster.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 19, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
You mean like the disaster the Rockies experienced when trading
Matt Holliday for Carlos Gonzalez?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 19, 2011 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Holliday was gonna walk the next year anyways
We have Gio and Cahill under team control for a long long time. Not a fair comparison.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 19, 2011 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course Beane would ask for something ridiculous from a division rival.
Anything less than that and he’s shooting himself in the foot.
No way the Rangers move Profar soon. Too early and he might be better than Andrus, who’s good. It would certainly take more than Bailey to get him, more like Bailey+Cahill for Profar, Perez, Erlin and 2 more. That’s clearing out a division rivals’ farm, its pretty unheard of.
It really pisses me off that Texas drafts so well
They’re not doing it with good draft position. Stop it!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
OT: Is there a way to figure out a player's WAR without defense?
Like, is it possible to come up with what Willingham’s WAR is if defense wasn’t counted? You would think it would worthwhile to easily show how big the difference in player value was this way in regards to how important defensive positions are. Like, if Player A was a LF with a WAR of 0.2 but if you took out defense and made him a DH it would be 2.4?
Is there a way to calculate a “DH WAR”, if you will?
Not needed. WAR has positional replacement built into it.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Sure.
The positional replacement stuff takes a bit of algebra, but taking out fielding? Just take their FRAA, divide by 10, and subtract from the WAR.
Cool, thanks.
It would be interesting to see how much more value the worst defenders in baseball would have if they were DH’s.
And you could ballpark the positional adjustment (over a full season)
by subtracting the difference between the positions here. So 1B —> DH would be 5 runs (0.5 wins), etc.
From Gammons article at MLB.com
Oakland will move the veteran bats and a reliever or two.
Link here. This probably means I can forget about gutting the team and starting the rebuilding process over.
Gammons has traditionally been used by Beane as an information vehicle.
If Gammons says something, he probably heard it from Beane.
Note that this doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true, only that Beane wants people to hear it.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
as opposed to Slusser or any of the other local reporters? or other national writers?
even if so, it doesn’t mean that is what Beane intends to do. It could also mean that it’s a smokescreen.
Beane has always said that there are no “inside sources” besides him and Forst.
Slusser and other have already written that one or more impending FA's
are most likely to be dealt by Beane. So it’s not much different from what Gammons wrote.
That used to be the case
I’m not sure it’s true anymore.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
that's exactly what he wants you to think! BOOYAH.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
so? Ubaldo is ridiculously cheap through 2014. His highest salary is 8M.
Oh, right, it’s the Yankees, teams are supposed to just give them their best players for nothing.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Absolutely
Doesn’t make sense not to ask for as much as you can for such a cheap, dominant player.
This this this
Their is a very good reason Beane and Friedman haven’t made pretty much any deals with NY. It’s disgusting to see how they go about transactions, IMO. They act like it’s a privilege to engage in a deal with them, I really can’t stand it.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I would call it a fair deal.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 17, 2011 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh my god. DO IT. TAKE HIM JUST FUCKING TAKE HIM
Jerry Crasnick
The #Pirates, trolling for bats, have checked in with the #Athletics on Conor Jackson as well as Josh Willingham.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
I already think it's a good deal for the A's,
and so far it’s “Conor Jackson for nothing.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Connor for Jones
Lets do it. Connor Jackson for Garret Jones.
I get the feeling
that any interest in Jackson from the Pirates is from a desire to platoon him WITH Jones. Both are 1B/COF types, average to slightly below average defenders at both positions, and have shown decent numbers against pitchers of opposite handedness (Granted in fairly small samples). The Pirates aren’t really in a position to give away any prospects of value, so they might be banking on acquiring small parts like Conor and seeing how long they can stay afloat.
Jackson had 4 rbi today
Can we get Marte for him? No.
by asyouwish33 on Jul 17, 2011 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Just curious about this --
We haven’t talked at all about the Twins, but they’re suddenly just 5 games out despite lacking a lot of hitting (sans Morneau) and with a rickety pen (sans good-Nathan).
Would they be buyers right now? And if so, could Willingham, Crisp, DeJesus, and Bailey possibly be used in some way to pry away Aaron Hicks? Probably not just because the Twins tend to think long-term and never just about “this year” — which is a bummer because I also want them to throw in Kevin Slowey!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No. The Twins don't give up prospects.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 19, 2011 6:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Have you sent this to BB?
It sounds like a real good way to build a longterm winner, BN.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Trade Kouz for Cust
DFA Cust. Just because Billy hates him.
Did Jack neglect to get a no-trade clause when he signed with the Mariners?
I would figure he’d get one just for Oakland.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Woah woah woah...
Philly is apparently willing to give up Singleton to get Mike Adams from San Diego, but that’s not enough for the Padres?
So, um, offer them Balfour?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Adams is cheaper and better than Balfour is
but if they want to give him up for relievers, then yeah, there’s a deal to be made.
Adams is better but only $1.25 million cheaper this year
Next season he’s probably going to make $3.5 million vs. Balfour’s $4 million. That’s negligible. The A’s could also offer to pay a portion of Balfour’s remaining 2011 salary.
If the Padres hold the line on Singleton+ for Adams then Balfour for Singleton looks very plausible.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Adams is arguably the premier set-up man in baseball.
But Balfour is good, so…maybe?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So are we excited about Singleton then?
I had never heard of him. I see Baseball America ranked him #39 prospect overall at the start of the 2011 season. He turns 20 this September. BA lists his estimated time of arrival as 2013.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
BA also ranked him as Philly's #1 power hitting prospect and #1 plate discipline
both were over Domonic Brown.
I wouldn’t necessarily say excited in the sense that I’m thinking OMG I HOPE WE GET SINGLETON NO MATTER WHAT OMG, but as a return for 1/2 season of Willingham or for a reliever? That would be phenomenal.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
That's about where I am with it
He doesn’t look great to me, but at the same time he’d immediately become our best 1B option for the future. That, plus the fact that he could be great, is enough for me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Again, if this deal is somehow available to us, it's essential we make something like this
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 19, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Man, if just Balfour could net us Singleton
Trading away Willingham, Balfour, Bailey, DeJesus and Crisp could really help replenish the farm system.
*Insert something witty here*. Oh, and Stanfurd Sucks.
Exactly
Even if we have to package some of these guys together, netting even 2 or 3 decent prospects could really make the farm look semi decent…
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 19, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
HEY WE SHOULD TRADE FOR JONATHAN SINGLETON
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
Word on the street
is that we are trading for Singleton.
according to?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Did you hear?
The A’s are trading for Singleton.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
are you and asyouwish being serious?
or is this some cruel joke?
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
cruel joke.
The “word on the street” was referring to the posts above.
by asyouwish33 on Jul 18, 2011 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions
We're having fun with the rumor meme.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
From her twitter
susanslusser Susan Slusser
So the #Athletics really would have to be overwhelmed to deal Bailey, and that means, at the least, a can’t-miss young power hitter.
16 Jul
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Jul 19, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
As opposed to our current strategy
of acquiring a “can’t-hit old power hitter”.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
lol
truly sad though
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jul 19, 2011 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Although the FO might prefer a young position player as a centerpiece for a Bailey deal
I would think that they would take a package built around Martin Perez in a heartbeat.
*Insert something witty here*. Oh, and Stanfurd Sucks.
Then the A's will control the New Republic.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Good!
I think that’s exactly the right approach.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Even if it means they keep Bailey?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 19, 2011 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I want to keep Bailey
I’m willing to deal him but not keen to.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Giving up Jackson for nothing???
Okay, then. Who becomes the A’s first baseman?
Carter …. The guy desperately needs a refresher course in fielding. He has no reflexes, no idea how to reach into the stands, barely any idea how to catch an errant throw. And he’s lost at the plate.
Barton …. He seems to have forgotten how to hit.
Rosales …. Really? Because that’s your only choice unless you want to bring Kouzmanoff back.
Jackson can be spelled by Powell, but unless the A’s can find another first baseman somewhere, I don’t think he’s going anywhere.
Barton's better than Jackson when you compare "every day 1Bmen"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The best way for Carter to get a refresher course in fielding is, of course, to play 3B in Sacramento.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Yay! Carter at 3B!
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Which he actually is doing
He’s started at least two games at 3B recently. Slusser said it was an “emergency” situation, since Kouz’ back is bothering him. But unless literally everyone else who can play 3B is unavailable, it sounds more like backup duty. 3B was apparently Carter’s original position.
by OaklandSi on Jul 19, 2011 1:26 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I know it's a long-shot, but I'm very intrigued by this.
Given that 3B is much harder than 1B, you would think that a guy who is very bad at 1B would be very very very bad at 3B. But if Carter’s defensive ineptitude is such that he is equally very bad no matter where he plays, then being very bad at 3B would be way more valuable than being very bad at 1B.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I don't know why I find this amusing
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 19, 2011 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
If he's very bad at first
chances are he’d be something much worse than ‘very bad’ at third.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
Or if something about the nature of his suckiness
makes it constant regardless of position. (In which case we may as well put him at shortstop….)
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Consider that his range, wherever he is, is "zero"
You don’t want that at 3B.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Maybe but a fucking disaster at 3B is more valuable than a fucking disaster at 1B
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 19, 2011 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
At least he's listed on the Rivercats roster at 1B
Cardenas is listed as a DH
by OaklandSi on Jul 19, 2011 3:29 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think so, actually.
The difference in positional adjustment is 15 runs over a full season. Carter could definitely manage a UZR at 3B that’s 15 runs lower than his UZR at 1B.
Right, but the hope is that maybe
his 3B UZR is fewer than 15 runs worse than his 1B UZR.
Well, my hope anyway. No idea what the A’s are thinking.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I mean yeah.
If we’re talking about him being a fucking disaster at 1B and a fucking disaster at 3B, I’d rather have him at 3B. But if you’re gonna assume he’s a fucking disaster at 1B, then he’s probably more like a horrendous catastrophe at 3B.
You know what I mean? I mean, if my house fell down, I’d stand outside and say, “This is a fucking disaster.” But I’m not going to say, “This is truly tragic. This is one of the most horrendous catastrophes of all time,” unless nuclear warheads are exploding at the same time as a natural disaster. That’s what I imagine Carter at 3B is like.
by NateHST on Jul 19, 2011 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hee
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 19, 2011 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
it already was
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
Hmmm
I wouldn’t mind giving Powell a bunch of playing time at first and bringing up Recker to back up Suzuki. Or we could give Donaldson a shot at first (or at backing up Suzuki). Really, though, I think we’d just see Carter playing every day, which I definitely don’t mind.
*Insert something witty here*. Oh, and Stanfurd Sucks.
Who cares...
This season is over. Let’s start making moves for next year.
Probably doesn't mean much
But Willingham is not in the starting lineup tonight.
by OaklandSi on Jul 19, 2011 1:15 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Just a day off, per Jane Lee on twitter
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Or two days off in a row
Since they didn’t play yesterday.
by OaklandSi on Jul 19, 2011 1:27 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
a couple of the reporters mentioned that his achilles tendon is still an issue
which isn’t really surprising.
Have you checked the Phillies' lineup?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
.
Chris_OaklandFR Chris Biderman
Take a good long look at this #Athletics roster during this road trip because it could look much different when it returns home next week.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
hope so.
but not any of the pitchers except bailey and fuentes.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jul 19, 2011 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Market for Willingham expanding, now Crisp has a suitor too
Danny Knobler of CBS Sports has three new names on the Reds’ radar: Astros lefty Wandy Rodriguez, Mariners third baseman Chone Figgins, and Athletics center fielder Coco Crisp.
Grady Sizemore was placed on the disabled list with a knee issue, and SI.com’s Jon Heyman says (on Twitter) the Indians have their eyes on Ryan Ludwick and Josh Willingham. They also called about Carlos Beltran, but his no-trade clause may be an obstacle.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
Interesting. Over the years, I've often thought OAK and CLE might be good trade partners
Any way we could finagle Lonnie Chisenhall in a deal? Hmm…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Truly doubt it
Seems like they are pretty set with an infield of Chisenhall, Cabrera, Kipnis, and LaPorta
*Insert something witty here*. Oh, and Stanfurd Sucks.
I guess, but they're in a dead heat race with DET plus 1-2 other teams
and Chisenhall isn’t going to help them a lot now. But to part with him they’d certainly want a lot more than just Willingham.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He'll help a lot more than the alternative
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
The Reds are eyeing Crisp?
That seems strange. Stubbs and Bruce are set to be fixtures in their lineup for several years, and Gomes, Heisey and Lewis are all perfectly serviceable in LF. Unless they want to move Stubbs to LF…? It’s plausible, I guess, but he’s been a perfectly adequate defender in CF.
Maybe they want Coco to play LF
Gomes, Heisey, and Lewis are kind of three versions of suck, and Crisp-Stubbs-Bruce is a heck of a defensive OF.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not really.
They’re all doing pretty well this year. I know it’s an exact science, to be sure, but if you prorated all of Gomes, Lewis and Heisey’s production this year over a full season, each of them would rack up 2 WAR or higher. Part of this is due to the fact that Gomes UZR is actually positive for the first time in his career, but still.
FWIW, TotalZone absolutely loves Chris Heisey. They have him well above average at all three OF positions during his time in the minors. Actually, the closer I look at it, TZ has him at 40 runs above average during 2008, and several years of being slightly above average. Is this just a fluke?
Regardless, if the Reds put Heisey started Heisey in LF for the rest of the season, they’d probably be fine. The upgrade Crisp represents is pretty much negligible.
DON'T TELL ANY OF THIS TO WALT JOCKETTY.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
But you're forgetting
Dusty Baker loves him some fast black outfielders.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
He's already got Fred Lewis sitting on the bench.
I’m not saying this is all completely nonsensical and whoever reported the rumor is just making things up, but it doesn’t make a lot of sense from Cincinnati’s POV. But hey, if you’re interested, the A’s are ripe for the pickin’, Mr. Jocketty.
Scout takes on what we "should" expect from Philly for Willingham
Josh Willingham, OF, Oakland
AL scout: “I think they will be looking for a good prospect who is two years away or maybe a lesser-ceiling guy if he’s pretty close right now. I think they’d at least want a good double-A prospect.”
NL scout: “He’s an offensive player that you can play periodically against lefthanded pitchers. He’s also a bat that can help you off the bench in the later innings. I don’t think you have to give up a top-tier prospect because he’s not an everyday player. Maybe a guy like [double-A Reading shortstop] Freddy Galvis or [triple-A Lehigh Valley reliever] Michael Schwimer.”
Needless to say, it would be disappointing to only get what the NL scout is suggesting.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
That scout has no clue what he's talking about
He’s an offensive player that you can play periodically against lefthanded pitchers.
Seriously?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Here we have a perfect example of why stats > scouts.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
It's a horrible example.
That’s like saying batting average is a perfect example of why scouts > stats. Why do you keep trying to make this dichotomy? It doesn’t exist. Dumb scouts are dumb, dumb stats are dumb, and people who combine the two are a heck of a lot wiser than people who ignore one to bow to the other.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Because everybody else does and it's really annoying.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Quite honestly, I'm not sure anyone does it more consistently than you do
I wish everyone would stop. It’s a false, dumb, and polarizing “dichotomy”.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
On the plus side, it does have the potential to become funny.
Needs moar CAPS, though.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Yeah, you never do stuff like that and then get called out and then edit front page posts.
Good call.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
That was my first thought exactly.
Seems like that scout is an idiot.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
I wonder if that quote is
actually about Connor Jackson, not Willingham…then it might make sense?
Kiper+Fosse=Mute
by CorpseOfChavez on Jul 20, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Is Jackson an offensive player?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
To me, he is.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not sure how realistic this is
What if the A’s were to get involved in the Carlos Beltran sweepstakes so as to act as a facilitator for a team that isn’t in a position to take on payroll? So essentially, the A’s acquire Beltran and the rest of his salary for a mid-level prospect, and then flip him to another team for a nicer piece while agreeing to pay his salary.
I understand that there are other teams besides the A’s in a position to do this, but there is an Alderson-Beane connection, and with the Mets presumably trying to shed some payroll, I think it makes a lot of sense for both sides
Beltrans no trade clause might get in the way there...
"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
he's indicated that he would waive his no trade clause to go to a contender
which would leave out the A’s, Mariners, Royals, Astros, Marlins, Orioles, Padres, etc, etc.
So, he'll waive it for the RiverCats before the A's.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
He'd waive it if he knew he was getting flipped to a contender
He knows we only trade for him in order to flip him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's pretty much what I'm thinking
It would be similar to the Jeff Weaver for Ted Lilly trade, except in this case we would pay the contract of the incoming player (Beltran)
How about we take Beltran and his salary,
along with a promise by Alderson to end the Giants’ territorial rights when he’s commissioner, then flip Beltran and Aramark for Chez Panisse?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sounds fair to me.
Chez Panisse might be too far away from the majors for my taste, though. Don’t know if it’s worth the wait.
*Insert something witty here*. Oh, and Stanfurd Sucks.
Huh.
potential Willigham/Breslow deal to Pirates
I have no idea why the heck we would have any interest in Garret Jones.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
God, I hope the Pirates just wanted to get rid of Jones to clear a spot for Willingham
And the quality of the prospects we get along with him won’t be too much worse because of his inclusion in a potential deal
*Insert something witty here*. Oh, and Stanfurd Sucks.
yeah I hope that's what was meant by "Jones out the door" because he's not very good as opposed to coming back to Oakland.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
I can't wait...
until we get another absolutely mediocre player like Garrett Jones. He fits in perfectly on the A’s.
What prospects would be realistic in return for Breslow/Willingham?
Starling Marte? Tony Sanchez? Rudy Owens?
*Insert something witty here*. Oh, and Stanfurd Sucks.
I'd like Starling Marte, yeah.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Man I really hope we at least get a guy like Marte
Willingham is perhaps our biggest trade chip this season (besides possibly Bailey). If we can only get Garrett Jones/fringe prospects for him, I would not be overly excited as to what our other pieces could get back.
*Insert something witty here*. Oh, and Stanfurd Sucks.
Yeah that would suck. I really hope that I was right up above
and the guy just meant out the door in Pittsburgh.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
You like Marte better than Grossman?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't know much about either of them.
DFA loves Marte. He’s very toolsy, has dropped his K rate this year, and is a plus defensive CF.
There’s a lot to like even if he doesn’t develop into an above average hitter.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
We've discussed that one.
You’re misreading if you think it means Jones would be involved in the package to Oakland. It just means that acquiring Willingham would push Jones out of the Pirates’ lineup/roster.
What role would Garrett Jones have here?
I’d much rather let Barton or Carter sink or swim at 1B, or see what Taylor, Cardenas or Miller could do with OF AB’s, but all would suffer if Beane picked up a worse player with less upside who’s about to be way, way more expensive. While most of his time comes in RF, acquiring Jones would effectively recruit over every player just named. In every case save maybe Miller, that’s not a good thing.
Hell, keep DDJ or Jackson, much less Sweeney, in there before we take on and give AB’s to Garrett Jones. What an AWFUL idea.
Oakland Athletics * St. Bonaventure Bonnies * Green Bay Packers * Buffalo Sabres * New York Knicks
I doubt we'd actually keep Jones
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 20, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
No one is saying we even get him in the first place.
It’s clear in the tweet that Jones would just be dumped. It’s only the clumsy wording in the RotoWorld sentence that makes it sound like he’d go to Oakland, and even there it doesn’t actually say that.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
It was very unclear in the MLBTR blurb
but I think you’re right about the tweet being more about Jones getting dumped.
God, I hope so.
Because if we get him, we’re stuck with him.
So basically, what everyone’s suggesting is that the Pirates would DFA him if they got Willingham? Or does Jones have options remaining?
Funny, because now that I look, he’s got an OPS (.740) greater than every single A’s player other than Willingham (.755), Weeks (.748) & Sizemore (.742), which isn’t saying a lot.
However, this is not a year to get excited over an improvement of a few OPS points, nor is next year. It’s about seeing how guys targeted as the potential future centerpieces of your offense can hack it at the big league level. Garrett Jones isn’t one of those people and would only add to the list of guys who get in the way of them.
Oakland Athletics * St. Bonaventure Bonnies * Green Bay Packers * Buffalo Sabres * New York Knicks
by RyanFromBonas on Jul 20, 2011 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I think they're just saying that
he will be off the Pirates active roster, without specifying where he’ll go instead — whether that’s to AAA, waiver wire, trade to Oakland, or trade to someone else.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
If all we have to be excited about is a pretty meaningless deal with the Pirates, I say hold off on deals, take whatever picks we can get, and let all our september call-ups start every game.
Maybe attempt to re-sign willingham since we have no OF left next year.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 20, 2011 12:48 PM PDT reply actions
There's a new trade thread.
If you’re recommended this one, you can unrec it now. And rec the new one if you like.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Again, if you rec'd this, please unrec
especially so that iglew’s post can stay on the list of rec’d fanposts
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
http://www.domingobeisbol.com/
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