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Around SBN: Rondo On Slowing Heat: 'They've Got To Hit The Deck, Too'

Directing All My Anger At MLB

OK, this belongs front and center and we need a new thread for comments anyway... please also visit wacchampion's marvelous Facebook page directed at Bud Selig if you already haven't and "Like" it.  Please keep those cards and letters and emails flowing towards the Commissioner's desk as well (his email is allan.selig@mlb.com).  --Josh/EN

Even though I'm not as vocal on AN any more I read the site each and every day. I follow game threads when I'm not in the middle of putting the children to bed. I'm still amazed at the incredible content Nico and the crew pour out on a daily basis despite the deep and dark malaise this team has been in for, well, about five years now.

Here's the thing for me though. It's not nearly as fun to follow the A's anymore. And it's not just because they haven't played that role of super successful underdog lately. It's because the team is essentially in a holding pattern with respect to planning for the future. And the simple reason for that is that ownership and management have no idea what is going to happen with their team long-term. How do you plan for things two, three or even five years down the road if you have no idea where the team will be or what kind of budget it will have? 

One thing I will say about Schott and Hofmann, and believe me, I couldn't stand those guys, but they didn't come out and declare the franchise a lame duck in its current location which effectively alienated the Oakland loyalists and also gave potential free agents little appeal in signing here. The A's are currently a franchise in a location that is unlivable (well articulated in this post by EN). I've talked to Beane and Wolff on multiple occasions and each of them told me repeatedly that they were the highest bidder for quite a few free agents over the last few years and those free agents chose other destinations in large part because of the facilities. We live in a new athletic order, where top end athletes, or even middling ones like Rafael Furcal, demand beautiful facilities where they are pampered like the country club atmosphere Mark Cuban has created in Dallas or Cowboys owner Jerry Jones in his monstrous facility.

Star-divide

 

Which leads me back to MLB. It has been at least two years since Bud Selig created his "committee" to explore possible destinations for the Oakland franchise. I do believe that Selig wants the A's to stay in Oakland if it can be worked out in some way, shape or fashion. That way he doesn't have the San Francisco Giants jumping down his throat for "impeding on their territory". Clearly that isn't what Wolff and his crew want. So what's the problem? Why the paralysis? Why does it take more than two years for a dedicated committee to come up with a recommendation? I understand that the issues are complicated but shouldn't this have been resolved one way or the other right now?

In the meantime, we have Beane put in the unenviable position of trying to create a team from spare parts and whoever is willing to sign in Oakland because they happen to be on the downside of a once stellar career. Beane's mission has been obvious the last few years. Acquire as much good, young pitching as possible and in that sense, he's succeeded, but the team's failure to develop their own hitters has been crippling because there is no possibility to attract any top-end hitter to Oakland. At least if there was a decision and the stadium plans were in motion, the A's could sell a Beltre on the beautiful new facility that he would be playing in in three years. Right now, the sales pitch is, come hit at one of the worst hitters parks in baseball, hang out in our decrepit facility with busted pipes and horrid ambiance. But hey, at least you'll have the third coolest mascot in baseball to clown around with!

This doesn't forgive the lack of developing a better minor league system or the lack of great drafting or dealing a Carlos Gonzalez before he had a chance to really become Carlos Gonzalez. But it also makes A's management's job a ridiculously difficult one. If anything, Beane gambled on a new version of Moneyball whereas he gets as much good young pitching as possible then hopes he can cobble together an offense to give them support to at least win a division. But without those big sticks coming from the minor league system, the A's haven't been able to produce much in free agency and/or through trades. Beane has been reluctant to trade any of the great young starters he has and rightfully so.

But until this team has some idea where it will be in 2014, I wouldn't anticipate much turning around between now and then. In order for any business to succeed, it needs a foundation of stability and the A's might just be the most unstable franchise in MLB right now. And that's thanks in large part to the paralyzed, impotent MLB leadership. No one on the A's has been willing to say it so far but I'm going to say it. MLB apparently can't take a stand involving this franchise which leads me to believe that they just know someone is going to hate their resolution or they're as baffled by this issue as everyone who has studied it before them. It just seems like the committee is taking this tact with the whole effort, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool rather than speak out and remove all doubt."

I'd take them removing all doubt at this point because we'd at least have some idea what's going to happen with our favorite franchise. I'm sure the A's ownership and front office would take some answer, ANY ANSWER, at this point as well. Even if it wasn't favorable to Wolff's San Jose ambitions. Because there would at least be some direction for the franchise. Right now the Oakland Athletics are kind of a rudderless ship sailing on the seas to nowhere. And that's not fair to A's fans. It's also why you should be irate with MLB each and every day until they finally issue some sort of decision. Sorry but this just makes me more upset with each passing day.

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Well said Blez

I feel like a passenger on the SS Minnow. The fan in me wants to believe, but the realist keeps slapping said fan in the face HARD.

by RudiFan on Jul 11, 2011 2:24 PM PDT reply actions  

Hell, even the Minnow landed somewhere.

we are forever adrift.

A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!

by OptimistPrime on Jul 11, 2011 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

And it had Mary Ann

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jul 11, 2011 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Heck.

It had the Millionaire’s wife. Insert off color joke of choice <here>.

Nick Swisher is handsome.

by ChrisCEIT on Jul 11, 2011 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

That doesn't bring to mind any off color jokes.

Ginger might have though.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jul 12, 2011 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately, you arent going to get an answer by rec'ing this post or starting a facebook page.

While both our good starts the only way we are going to push this issue along, as fans, is to put pressure on local media to begin covering the issue. Increase local media coverage would hopefully result in increased national media coverage (thank you Howard Bryant) which would slowly begin to turn up the heat on Selig and the Giants.

It’s about time more than only the die-hard A’s fans begin to be turned on to the nefarious back room dealings and posturing of the Giants and Selig’s unwillingness to confront an issue of such import to one of baseball’s most storied franchises.

I encourage you all to write the local writers, 95.7, etc to encourage them to move in this direction.

Time to shine the spotlight on the Giants and hold them to the fire. Mr. Peanut (neukom) be damned.

by Cory Townsend on Jul 13, 2011 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

We definitely need an answer

Unfortunately the fans writing day after day to Selig begging for a decision is not working. The press needs to jump on the wagon and start the questioning. We need the A’s beat writers, broadcasters, Rob Neyer etc. to start writing about the situation and demands for an answer.

It seems Lew Wolff is in no hurry to seek an answer himself from his good pal.

by HRH on Jul 11, 2011 2:31 PM PDT reply actions  

What's Wolfe going to do?

I learned from sales training you generally don’t ask a question if you know the answer’s going to be “no”.

I suggest an AN class action suit against MLB! Any lawyers among us?

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jul 11, 2011 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I even had wild thoughts of going all in on the PORTS!! It is just as far to their park for me as it is to the Coli.

I just love watching this game so much – it would be strange not going to the Coli for numerous games!!! I get your frustration! The hard part is feeling helpless here…..what CAN BE DONE???

Randy Jackson: "Did you eat a lot of paint chips when you were young?"
Idol Contestant: [Nods]

by Berry Jo on Jul 11, 2011 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I supPORT this message.

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 11, 2011 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Totally agree.

My father has been a season ticket holder for over THIRTY YEARS and, as much as us A’s fans enjoy streaks, this one might end after this season.

In the last few years my father’s friends who used to line up to get tickets to see the green and gold have opted out, and I’ve had to push hard to continue the tradition, by recruiting new shareholders to buy some games so we can all enjoy great seats at the coliseum, and keep the tickets in our name. In the last three years at least, we’ve always had games left over.

The biggest reason why I wanted to keep the streak alive is that I believed that at SOME POINT the A’s would get a new facility, and honor their longtime faithful fans by giving them first crack at season tickets. However, as time goes by and the future seems to be darker and darker, I realize that the urgency is gone, and anyone can simply walk up to a game and get great seats without a problem (unless of course the A’s are playing a team that fills the stadium with their own fans, because the A’s fans certainly won’t do it).

Anyway, this season had me hopeful in the off-season. We had money, we bought some players who seemed to bring some promise and hope with them, and then piece by piece, the entire team fell apart. When looking for a silver lining in this season that’s circling the drain, we get two things: Our pitching, and Grant Green.

I will always be an A’s fan. I just may not be a season ticket holder. And as skigurl proves above, I’m clearly not alone.

by A's Fan by Design on Jul 12, 2011 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

If I were a mod I'd promote this to the front page.

good post, new guy. Er.. hi Blez.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 11, 2011 2:37 PM PDT reply actions  

If I owned the largest collection of sports blogs in the world and was a die hard A's fan...

I would promote this to the front page of SBN for at least a day or two. Blez theres gotta be some people you know who can write a few articles to put some extra pressure on, right??

by throttle mathius on Jul 11, 2011 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Welcome to the powerless feeling call A's fandom

We are the whipping boy of the sporting world.

A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!

by OptimistPrime on Jul 11, 2011 2:43 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

*called

A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!

by OptimistPrime on Jul 11, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed
Lets leave Beane and Wolff alone.

They aren’t our enemies.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 11, 2011 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

While I do agree

Their comes a point where they need to show that they are as frustrated as we are.
It’s hard to show much allegiance to this franchise when Billy doesn’t exactly act like he’s too worried about getting a stadium. The relaxed demeanor gets old after a while.
Where’s the fire?

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Wolff was on CT last week

He just sounds exasperated and tired of waiting

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 11, 2011 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

i heard that in the interview too.

by AV on Jul 12, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought Wolff sounded indifferent to the entire situation. He seems content to sit on his hands and wait and not follow up with Selig for an answer.

by brewitt on Jul 12, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

He said something to the effect of being a guy who respects the process and it's about the good of the game

He’s just trying to not piss anyone off.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, he failed and pissed me off. I have the terrible suspicion that he didn’t want to let us know his plan B in order to further alienate already disgruntled fans.

by brewitt on Jul 12, 2011 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I bet he's worried that he pissed you off since you make the territorial rights decision.

And maybe he does have a Plan B. But it doesn’t help his cause any to tell anyone that it exists. Anyone against Plan A would just tell him to go for Plan B instead.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

he said anyone

The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler

by Jessse on Jul 12, 2011 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

rec'd!

Every man for himself...

by MMunoz33 on Jul 13, 2011 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

GM's shouldn't be fiery

They’re not players; they’re in management. Being fiery is great for players as it can be a motivating force. For a GM to make bold statements or express outright exasperation would not only be unprofessional, it would give the appearance that they can’t handle the stress of the job. After all, there’s nothing Billy can do about any of this anyways…

by Kallus on Jul 12, 2011 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I see where you're coming from

But I’m gonna agree to disagree.
This is a very outstanding situation, and I want a GM whose heart is in it for the better of the franchise, whether that’s PC or not.

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 13, 2011 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know they can

I’m just saying it’d be nice to see it from time to time, especially from a guy who’s notable temper is about to be shown on thousands of screens played by one of the most popular actors in Hollywood.
I’m not saying what I’m saying is necessarily rational, it’s just what I need to get back into this team again…

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 13, 2011 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am sure they are even more frustrated

Wolff has spent millions on Fremont and millions on San Jose all to have Bud just keep him waiting. But he has to be diplomatic are risk making the situation even worse. I don’t envy his position.

The fact is, I want what Wolff wants so I am fully supportive. We need to increase our rancor towards Bud because Wolff can’t (at least not publically).

by DrDoom on Jul 12, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I've seen a fair amount of owners make accusation, irrational business decisions

hell, a fair amount of them get fined for comments they make in the media.
So I say screw diplomacy at this point.
That said, Bud’s still the worst…

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 13, 2011 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Are you talking about Snidely Neukom?

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jul 11, 2011 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

We are truly evil

We all want to see your team burn

Check out Catch-28.com. You will find a lot of fawning over Buster Posey and some Giants analysis that you could probably find anywhere else. I appreciate any and all feedback.

by EricW on Jul 15, 2011 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

The thing that bothers me is the unfairness of it all

Eeeeeveryone else gets to watch a team in a decent facility with decent ambiance, and we get this dump. MLB is being neglectful. But even worse, MLB is being unfair to an entire franchise and fanbase. As a lifelong baseball fan, the A’s current situation makes baseball borderline unenjoyable for me, and not just because they’re losing on the field. It’s hard not to be pissed off, even if it is just a baseball team.

by BWH on Jul 11, 2011 3:12 PM PDT reply actions  

Well said.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz.
~Humphrey Bogart

by UncleLeo on Jul 11, 2011 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I went to my first game of the season last week and will probably go to one or two more

But it just strikes me how much I don’t even look forward to going to the Coliseum any more because of how rundown it is compared to the newer places I’ve been to.

It may be adequate for some fans who don’t care what the place looks like, but it’s well beyond obvious that it matters to players, free agents, etc. – and probably some of the fans that have decided to go to fewer games and even none at all.

It’s just not a fun place to go to any more.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jul 11, 2011 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Agreed

It’s not like we live somewhere with minimal options for entertainment. I mean, at this point, watching the game at home with a homecooked meal and some good beer is infinitely more exciting than visiting that place.

And if I’m gonna get on BART and trek over that way, it’s probably going to be for Beer Revolution and Souley Vegan. I’d rather do that and listen to Korach than actually pay to show up.

by mk on Jul 11, 2011 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I actually prefer the Coliseum.

Compared to Safeco, which people usually cite as one of the good parks. The Colisum is less noisy, less crowded, and less full of stupid jumbotron gimmickry yelling at me everywhere I go. I like that.

As for the players, I think what matters to them most is the clubhouse facilities and the stink. If it were possible to improve those even while leaving the main Coliseum a bare concrete hulk for the fans, that would be an enormous benefit to the team. Unfortunately, as I understand it, there’s no practical way to do that.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 11, 2011 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

There are things you could do...

Move in the fences, expand on the field seating, add more hokey AAA contests and games between innings. Yeah, its big and bulky and kinda ugly but still that date has something attractive about it. Oh and the spinning rabbit and the ball girls too.

I still think a class action suite filed among all A’s fans that have been harmed by this situation is a solid case. Get Purdy to publish it

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jul 11, 2011 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not talking about the fans.

I’m talking about the players. They want a better clubhouse and better workout facilities. There’s nothing the A’s can do about that. Mostly because they don’t own the place.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 2:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

You can't tear down walls to a house you don't own

"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King

by YonYonson on Jul 12, 2011 6:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sure you can, the Raiders did it

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jul 12, 2011 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

In 2000 I went to my first game at Raley Field.

It was then, and is now a better fan experience. I wouldn’t turn down a shot to go with friends to Raley, but I’d think long and hard on O.co(yikes).

It’s just not a fun place to go to any more.

It’s been a long time, really.

Nick Swisher is handsome.

by ChrisCEIT on Jul 11, 2011 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes

used to live in sacramento, and went to tons of games there. raley is awesome.

by mk on Jul 12, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Quieter than a Tuesday night game at the Coli? ;)

Might be because the Coli is enclosed and there is less sound leakage.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know that what I'm saying isnt coming across the way that I mean it...everything is great at Raley Field, but there is just something Off about it...

I think that it has something to do with minor league baseball in general, where the outcome of the game doesn’t mean as much as the individual results…I hope this makes sense, LOL, because in my mind I understand what I am saying… : )

There is no A in OFFENSE!!

by wacchampions on Jul 12, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I get what you're saying.

As we go from AAA to Rookie ball, the game results definitely mean less in the overall scheme of things.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love minor-league ball.

As a general rule, I’d rather go to a minor-league game than a major-league game. (For live attendance, I mean; for TV/radio I like the A’s best.) Maybe it’s the “quiet” that I like.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

The constant "canned noise" at the Coliseum is a HUGE turn off for me

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 12, 2011 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I remember less canned noise at the Coliseum

than at Safeco. But that might be more about the times than the stadium. I think the last time I was at the Coliseum was 2003, whereas all my Safeco visits are after that.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's my experience, as well

A LOT of canned noise at Safeco. Not my cup of tea, but it may do a good job of attracting the casual fan.

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on Jul 12, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree

It’s still a fun place to go. Just if you think about all the effects on our team playing in that facility…I try to separate the two when I’m there.

Sitting by the visitors bullpen helps, the heckling is always solid.

Looking forward to the doubleheader on Sat.

by Billy Frijoles on Jul 12, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm with iglew.

I don’t care about the gimmicks, I just watch what’s on the field. For me, pretty much every stadium is the exact same. I’ve averaged about 15-20ish games a year since like 05, and that streak will continue as long as the A’s are in the Coli.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jul 12, 2011 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Next time, pay attention to where your seat faces when you go to different parks and compare it to the Coliseum.

Take a look at the concourse sizes. The bathrooms. The food. You’ll start to notice things.

Yea, if you just want to watch a game, it’s not really that big of a deal when you sit in your seat for three hours. If only there were 30,000 more of you to come to the game. But alas, there aren’t, and the casual fan needs more.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why would I go to my team's stadium (of which I've been to plenty of times) and disparage it.

I already know it sucks. But there’s nothing we can do with it but live with it. There’s no point in comparing at this point.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Jul 12, 2011 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

We have to live with it forever?

I guess you could live with crap, but I think our team and our fans deserve better.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Meh

I dunno about the seat thing. But I’m ok peeing into a trough. I’m ok eating popcorn chicken everytime. I’m not gonna buy stadium food unless it’s cheap anyway. It’s just my opinion. I get that the casual fan needs more. I’m just saying my own opinion. I’m a true fan and I’m damn proud of it.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jul 13, 2011 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yup,

and you’re right, until we have lots of those, we need a nicer stadium and a better team.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jul 13, 2011 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I do care about the gimmicks.

I dislike them. Especially if they are loud.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

[inserts earplugs]

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

STUPID FIREWORKS.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great post, Blez, and I share your frustration with Selig

But is the A’s ownership really waiting for “some answer, ANY answer”? They already have rights to Alameda and Contra Costa Counties; they don’t need Bud’s blessing to pursue a new stadium in their existing territory.

M-A, M-A-R, M-A-R-K, Ell-is!

by Englishmajor on Jul 11, 2011 3:15 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Yes they are waiting

To build in San Jose or sell the team. They have no interest in losing money in Alameda county while they continue to be surrounded by Giants territory.

by DrDoom on Jul 11, 2011 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly

They need ANY answer from MLB because they don’t want to go to other locations. If their options are closed off, then I could see Wolff quickly selling the team.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Jul 11, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Then for christs sakes MLB PLEASE give an answer that closes Wolff's options off.

He is the sole reason this team is in the terrible state it’s in. He needs to sell the team now.

by jdub69 on Jul 11, 2011 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

Worst case is that Selig denies the SJ territory to the A’s, causing Wolff to sell the team. The new owner, may also believe that SJ is the only viable market for the A’s in the Bay Area, and buys them with the thought of moving them to Vegas/Portland/other place

by echerrst on Jul 11, 2011 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would fully support a stadium in CoCo County

:-)

"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King

by YonYonson on Jul 11, 2011 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

There's lots of land in Alameda Co as well.....just not as sexy as a near-the-water-in-an-urban-environment-park.

Randy Jackson: "Did you eat a lot of paint chips when you were young?"
Idol Contestant: [Nods]

by Berry Jo on Jul 11, 2011 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Where is a viable location?

And how many businesses would you have to move? And how close is it to mass-transit? There are numerous other questions, most importantly about how it gets funded. Unfortunately, it’s not as easy as pointing to a place on the map and saying, ‘See, here.’

Victory Court is apparently the best solution in the Oakland area, and even still we’re wondering why the draft EIR isn’t out yet.

I believe that there are problems with the VC site and stadium supporters are trying to figure out how to fix that before they let anyone peek at the draft EIR. MLB probably knows about these problems and is giving them time…. but time has to be running short. If the draft EIR isn’t done within a couple months (we’re already past the six month mark), we should probably guess the answer is that VC isn’t going to work, even if they’re delaying the inevitable reveal.

by LoneStranger on Jul 11, 2011 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dublin Bart, baby!

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by mikev on Jul 11, 2011 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am all for having less malls in the world.

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by mikev on Jul 11, 2011 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's insane. We need the jobs.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Jul 12, 2011 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

This actually would be a suitable place for a stadium

Major freeway intersection and BART is fairly close.

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

But alas, it's not in a downtown area, and any downtown-like surrounding would have to created.

I don’t think MLB really wants that, but hey, maybe Wolff would. This is, of course, assuming that the NIMBYs don’t protest like they did in Fremont.

by LoneStranger on Jul 11, 2011 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's actually a good amount of residential areas right around Stoneridge Mall

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by mikev on Jul 11, 2011 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ya, I was looking at a map.

I bet you get even worse protesting than Fremont.

by LoneStranger on Jul 11, 2011 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

This

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh I misread that

you meant downtown like shops and stuff like victory court style and not like in a residential area.

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by mikev on Jul 11, 2011 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, I meant at Stoneridge.

Knock it down and build there. Easy freeway and BART. But NIMBYs too.

by LoneStranger on Jul 11, 2011 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

BTW, to everyone else,

I’m not saying this is a viable plan.

by LoneStranger on Jul 11, 2011 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

me too. Stoneridge actually has a lot of residential around it.

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by mikev on Jul 11, 2011 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is it just me

or does the Bay Area seem especially bad for NIMBYism?

"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King

by YonYonson on Jul 12, 2011 6:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Welcome to California.

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by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 7:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah when I refused to sign a petition to stop a new cell tower by our office building in SF the guy in another office who circulated the petiton started swearing at me

I’m like, we all want better cell service, so what if the tower is on our building? The NIMBY shit is ridiculous. The tower has to be somewhere!

by Billy Frijoles on Jul 12, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

You could propose, at a city council meeting

A puppies and smiles factory that will give the city money each year … and people will still oppose the fucking thing. Nobody wants a damn thing built anything near them.

"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King

by YonYonson on Jul 12, 2011 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

If there's one thing worse than puppies, it's smiles.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 13, 2011 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

</Matt Holliday>

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 13, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

you can put a "downtown" up in a few months.

cf. the questionably capitalized FruitVale VillAGe.

by AV on Jul 12, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

OK, seriously

What the hell is the deal with that capitalization? It makes no sense at all.

by Glorious Mundy on Jul 12, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe someone thought that

Fruitvale needs more VAG?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

defies logic. it must be personal, like the developers wanted to dedicate it to their nephews (freddy, vicky, valery, andy, and gerry) or something.

by AV on Jul 12, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Money to Pay for a draft EIR was approved last December

It normally takes 6-9 months for a draft EIR to be done. I’d guess that work got underway right after the christmas/new year holiday. So it’s not late.

by OaklandSi on Jul 12, 2011 2:46 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

It's actually quite late

Much of the info for the EIR was compiled by the City as part of its submission to MLB well before the EIR process formally started. Quan and others also claimed they could fast-track the process to a year for completion even though historically Oakland hasn’t been any faster – and has often been slower – than most other cities.

by vertig0 on Jul 12, 2011 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good points about the EIR process

And I agree, that might well be holding back MLB. If VC isn’t viable then the options narrow considerably.

As far as viable locations, Kauffman Stadium is in a field in the middle of nowhere. In the many years since it’s been there, no real development has occurred – no sports bars or restaurants to speak of, a hotel was built but there isn’t much else. What it has is easy freeway access and it’s within 40 minutes from most of the urban areas on the Missouri side of the border. It was located for easy fan access and not to make developers a ton of money.

Granted there are fewer entertainment choices there and the location of the park isn’t as important. Mass transit is almost nonexistent so they didn’t have to deal with issues like BART access. But I think it’s challenged the idea that a stadium has to be coupled with massive development in order to be profitable for the team (and not just the developers).

by coffee roaster on Jul 12, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

The entertainment options part is really important.

If they build a park further out in the East Bay, even as close as Dublin, you’re basically losing a bunch of fans to ‘easier to attend’ entertainment, and for the baseball fan, that probably means AT&T Park.

If I have a group of friends, most of which aren’t really baseball fans, it’s much easier to drag them to the park with promises of dinner afterward or a visit to the watering hole before.

You’re right, KC sort of goes against that, but I haven’t read anything into the decision making process or the location options.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

One big advantage KC has

is that they were smart enough to build side-by-side, separate facilities for football and baseball there, even though people thought they were crazy. That makes renovating, rather than replacing, those facilities a lot more viable.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 12, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ok, so I did a quick Wikipedia lookup.

Kauffman Stadium has been there since the 1973 baseball season. They did an extensive renovation that was completed in 2009, to bring it up to modern requirements. This was all before MLB decided that downtown stadiums were a better experience. I don’t doubt that if they wanted to build a new stadium today, MLB would push for them to build it downtown.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Before the renovation

There was extensive talk about relocating the stadium to downtown Kansas City. I don’t doubt that if a new stadium was built it would be there – but instead they sunk the money (much of it taxpayer approved and funded) into the existing site in the middle of nowhere.

by coffee roaster on Jul 12, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

And I'll mention a little further

That the Kauffman renovations are really impressive. To offset the lack of any nearby dining/drinking establishments they put quite a few more of these facilities within the park itself. They added tons of stuff for young children who get restless sitting for long periods to do. It’s a fairly self-contained entertainment complex.

That isn’t to say that this approach would be successful anywhere else, particularly in the Bay Area. But the lust for development isn’t a requirement for anyone other than the developers.

by coffee roaster on Jul 12, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Those are some good points.

I believe that it was once mentioned that no attached restaurant would go into the Diridon stadium because there were so many restaurants within walking distance. I kinda think that’s a mistake. Any reason to visit the park on off-days would help add to it’s value.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

It does have pretty much all you need within the stadium

The only problem I ran into was the fact that the Royals Express bus was discontinued. This time around, it meant me needing to rent a car when I went there last September. It did help make it easier to visit the Negro League Museum and Chappell’s, however, as well as just getting around in general.

I didn’t need a car in Minneapolis because I just stayed downtown within about a 15-20 minute walk to Target Field. All the other places on that trip, I stayed generally closer to the airports so I did need to rent cars for the night.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jul 12, 2011 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah.

But we have competition here, a beautiful ballpark sufficiently close to a ton of pre and post game entertainment options.

Have you ever been to KC? I mean this in the least offensive way possible; there really isn’t a whole lot going on there, in general. Especially compared to the Bay Area. They have that river mall but that’s kind of it.

Also the ability to completely revitalize Oakland or add on to what the Sharks have going in SJ is pretty important.

So are transit options.

If Kauffmann was in downtown KC they might have a lot more going on there as well.

The Nats stadium is in a bad area and far from a lot of places; they literally created their own post-game hangout area, with live band, bar, etc. Especially on Friday and Saturday nights, it becomes important in an area such as ours where people expect that.

by Billy Frijoles on Jul 12, 2011 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's true about there not being a ton of touristy options within general KC itself

The river mall area is pretty much it. Crown Center near the train station has a few things but that felt more like a wannabe mini-mall to me.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jul 12, 2011 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would love it to

However, I don’t think it would ever happen?
There’s literally nowhere near major freeways and public transit that would work…

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rec'd for the uber cool sig as well as the comment

"You're on the Island of Conclusions," said Canby.
"But how did we get here?" asked Milo.
"You jumped, of course," Canby replied.

by broncomack on Jul 12, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is yours Catch 22?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

he can’t answer that. unless you already know.

by AV on Jul 12, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

it's "The Phantom Tollbooth"

"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang

by King Richard on Jul 13, 2011 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, but Wolff has it made it clear this isn't happening under his watch

I suppose unless a free one lands in his lap (which may be the only “Plan B” amenable to him). No amount of griping about him not wanting to build one there will change this.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 11, 2011 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, I am sure Wolff would take a publically financed stadium in the East Bay

But as long as he and his team are paying the $400 million or whatever it is, he needs to be sure the return is worth it. I think the South Bay might be the only place in the Bay Area that can support that.

A lot of folks seem to ignore this while they demand their new Oakland park… It isn’t free nor is it financially wise.

by DrDoom on Jul 11, 2011 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

We need Jeffro to chime in.

I wish the clorox stadium proposal was viable. To my mind that was the best idea for an East Bay stadium.

by hishnik on Jul 12, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

The cleats weren't enough?!?!

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My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
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by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Mama makes yellow dandy like a dandelion!

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

BUILD AT THE 580/680 INTERCHANGE NOW!!!!!

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My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 11, 2011 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I.CAN.DIG.IT!!!

Randy Jackson: "Did you eat a lot of paint chips when you were young?"
Idol Contestant: [Nods]

by Berry Jo on Jul 11, 2011 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

it would take a lot of digging but

go for it…. should be done it about 200 hundred years if you go it alone

by heartstopper on Jul 12, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

F that, build at Lakeside Park on Lake Merrit.

Screw those lawn bowling guys. Build right there on that central lawn, facing south to give the advantage to our stellar pitching. Leave a big gap in the outfield stands so that huge centerfield home runs could be called “Bonsai Shots”.

"As the tag line of my favorite dirty joke would have it: 'Keep your hat on. We could wind up miles from here.'" ~Kurt Vonnegut, Hocus Pocus

by Elvez on Jul 11, 2011 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that has been looked at.

And there’s not enough space.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 2:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bandbox!

More runs!

"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King

by YonYonson on Jul 12, 2011 6:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

hm. as much as i want a downtown oakland stadium, i actually object to this. i’m hoping a new ballpark would beautify a forgotten area, not commercialize an already vital and populated one. people go there every day for rec and exercise, either as a corner of the lake or as a part of the circuit around the lake, so let’s not mess with it. i know this particular piece of land is not going to come under serious consideration for a stadium, but i want to state that position: oakland does have history (second most populous city in CA at one time, exploding with architecture that is probably the only legacy of that moment) and life (despite what those who don’t visit often imagine), so let’s leave the functional places alone.

by AV on Jul 12, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

wholeheartedly agree.

Lakeside Park is one of the parts of Oakland that is really working right now. Building something there is a terrible idea.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

As for architecture,

there is one other city in the U.S. that matches Oakland in art-deco era architecture, and that is Tulsa, Oklahoma. What the two cities have in common is that both were booming and prosperous in the 1920s, when such buildings were built, and both were in economic decline in the 1950s, when such buildings in nearly every other U.S. city were torn down and replaced by more modern ones. For Tulsa it was the decline of the local oil economy; for Oakland it was the Bay Bridge and Cypress Freeway.

There’s also a little bit of art deco in Miami, and a lot in Cuba.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

huh. the bridge hurt oakland?

i just read that oakland was the west-coast terminus for the transcontinental railroad, west oakland specifically, and that it was great to be there. i want a time machine.

by AV on Jul 12, 2011 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

From Wikipedia
In 1946 National City Lines (NCL), a General Motors holding company, acquired 64% of Key System stock; during the next several years NCL engaged in the conspiratorial dissolution of Oakland’s electric streetcar system. NCL converted the Key System’s electric streetcar fleet to diesel buses, tracks were removed from Oakland’s streets, and the lower deck of the Bay Bridge was converted to automobile traffic, which reduced the passenger carrying capacity of the bridge. Freeways were planned and constructed, which partitioned the social and retail fabric of neighborhoods, and increased automobile ownership further reduced demand for mass transit. The state Legislature created the Alameda and Contra Costa Transit District in 1955, which still exists today as AC Transit, the third-largest bus-only transit system in the nation.

The article goes on to talk about the increase in the racial and economical divide in Oakland, partly because of the freeway system and the removal of the rail system.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

gah! i hate the way the world works.

by AV on Jul 12, 2011 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

if wishes were stadiums...

totally uninformed wishing here. i claim no urban development knowledge, land rights savvy, or architectural skill, just a lil photoshopping. but in light of the rail-based milestones that shaped oakland, i give you my dream: ceeee-le-brate train times, c’mon!

i love the central station in west oakland. and who (who’ve managed to peer over the 880 wall or have actually driven around deep W oakland to see it) doesn’t? it’s amazing.

outside
inside
the area

like i said, i’m uninformed. i just know there’s a bunch of empty-looking land, some fairly movable businesses (trucking depots?), my diesel mechanic (yeah, silver star, i’m moving you along), a nearby youth sports facility (how apropos!), traditional west oakland victorians two blocks away, and on the southern edge, new condos. i’m talking about the land that’s diamond-shaped already, and even points east-ish like a proper diamond should at frontage and 14th, here.

i say put the stadium there. base the architecture on the train station. include the standing building as part of it (i know it faces the wrong way to have it be an outfield wall, but it could be on the 3rd-base-line or on the continuation of that line outside the stadium itself, as an entrance, museum, food area, what have yous…

to whatever misgivings one might have about showing up in west oakland i’d say, don’t worry. A) you’re showing up with 35,000 people wearing the same colors—who’s the scary gang member now? (OK, OK, that was over the top, forgive me.) and B) i live around here. it’s really not that bad—not worse than the current location by any means. and the stadium would change the character of the area for the better i think. first, make the freeway a less impermeable barrier here. assuming the west grand ave or 7th street onramps are too far, there’s room to build a new one here and really open up the area. especially if parking goes on the west side of the freeway, expelling one or two of those large wastelandish depots/dirt settlements (don’t worry, i get the importance of shipping. i’m not trying to get rid of it completely, just take a little usable oakland back in that particular spot).

and what i’m really into about my idea: OK, no BART across some cement bridge overlooking a stagnant inlet, so people might get nostalgic for that and be worried about the walk if they don’t want to drive. but… street car! yep, connect the stadium and west oakland BART with a people mover of the old kind (can we get actual historical cars?) circuiting center, 16th, 18th, peralta, and 7th. i’m drawing green lines for this. the yellow lines are a further thought, what if we could connect the stadium to downland oaktown (SWIDT?).

west oakland close

west oakland wide

by AV on Jul 13, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I think that's pretty awesome

Streetcar system would be great for Oakland, to connect JLS with downtown, uptown, Temescal, and Rockridge. Wish they hadn’t gotten rid of it in the first place.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 13, 2011 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

We can name it "Desire"

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My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 13, 2011 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes.

Before the bridge Oakland and San Francisco were separate cities. The bridge began the process by which Oakland was converted to a suburb of San Francisco.

The bigger problem was the freeway expansions in the 1950s. These cut off downtown Oakland from both the waterfront and from West Oakland, and just generally obliterated West Oakland as a community. Prior to that, West Oakland was one of the more prosperous parts of town, well integrated with the city center. It had a strong African-American arts community, known as the “Harlem of the West Coast”. The Cypress Freeway plowed right through the middle of it, sacrificing the community for the sake of commuters further afield. The Black Panthers have their origins in some of the resistance groups opposing the “urban renewal” brought on by the Cypress Freeway project.

(Come to think of it, destroying a once-thriving African-American community is another thing Oakland has in common with Tulsa, though theirs was much worse….)

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

So sad.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Jul 12, 2011 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

yep, i’m still hating it.

by AV on Jul 12, 2011 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

And the other thing is I believe the A's HAVE to wait for MLB

at this point. They’re a part of the fraternity of ownership and MLB has a committee set to issue a decision on this so they are in a holding pattern, like it or not.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Jul 11, 2011 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, although, at this point

I’m not sure if there is anything to lose by Wolff blustering that he’s going to acquire the land and start building until someone sues to stop him.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 11, 2011 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

If he needs advice or a lawyer he can just ask Uncle Al.

Al must be itching to get back into the court room.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Jul 11, 2011 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

They basically tried to do this a while ago when they were going to go ahead and put something on the ballot

without a decision from MLB. And Selig was PISSED. So apparently the only time he can be motivated about the stadium issue is when he is defied.

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on Jul 12, 2011 2:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

there has been some talk of

SJ challenging the legality of the anti-trust exemption. but in these times of tight municipal $$$ the likelihood is very small. SJ mayor also said he would need wolfe on board for the move

by heartstopper on Jul 12, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

it just seems ridiculous that the A's could build in alameda county

in fremont or milpitas (not that that would be a good move) and be a simple hop skip and a jump from their proposed site in SJ and the ‘ants couldn’t do anything about it.

maybe a way around all this is for san jose to grant some of the city to alameda county and then charge them back yearly dollars. everyone would be a winner

by heartstopper on Jul 11, 2011 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

The A's should just find the absolute closest place to Phone Booth Park that they own territorial rights to

And build the park there. Or just build something.

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

To be clear,

The Big Box stores along Auto Mall Parkway said no (and they could be convinced to change their mind with $$$) and then the homeowners in the Warm Springs area said no.

Fremont’s mayor was completely for it, as was most of the council members.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sort of, yes.

I think that one one excuse to begin to look at San Jose. The ballpark village concept didn’t have to be completed at the same time as the stadium. It could be done over time as the economy got better. The only question would be whether or not the banks would accept that as viable in order to get the loans.

So yes, that, coupled with the NIMBY stuff probably increased the required effort, and if you have to put that much effort in, why not shoot for what you really want anyway?

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well you said it better than i could.

I remember being excited that by my senior year the A’s would be in a nice brand new stadium 20 minutes from my house. Well that time has since come and gone, and we’re still stuck going nowhere.

My only guess is that the Giants keep holding out for more money, but Selig should just shut them down then, since no one really likes them anyway. I think we should just take AT&T park hostage until we get our new stadium.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on Jul 11, 2011 3:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Can't really put it any better than this

Selig is screwing the A’s and their chances to move forward one way or another with all these hangups.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jul 11, 2011 3:52 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Probably nothing happens until Selig retires next year.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 11, 2011 3:59 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree.

He is never going to do anything about this. Why should he? Nobody is going to make him…

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.

by the_rozeboom on Jul 11, 2011 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

will he actually retire though?

or will the owners “talk him out of it”?

hey little girl
…want a cookie?

by ChickenStanley on Jul 11, 2011 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Someone should take Selig out back and "tell him about the rabbits."

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 11, 2011 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is that like "Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes"?

John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Jul 12, 2011 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

"Yeller, here boy"

(and yes, tell him about the rabbits was Lenny and George from Of Mice and Men)

"To hell with circumstances; I create opportunities." - Grand Master Bruce Lee

by malikot on Jul 12, 2011 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is true.

Why would he bother dealing with this situation when he doesn’t have to? He’s a coward, so its expected.

by PL78 on Jul 11, 2011 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only cowards will begin something with no intention to see it through

Selig will go down as one of the very worst commissioners in the history of baseball.
If Bettman wasn’t just that much worse than he is than he would certainly go down as one of the worst in the history of sports…

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd still take him over Selig...

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

me too. RIGHT NOW.

wait is he even alive?

Still better.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 11, 2011 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The only good commissioner is a DEAD commissioner!

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 12, 2011 6:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

I heart Zombie Commissioner Giamatti.

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 12, 2011 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also

The longer MLB waits, the increased chance the San Jose stadium package could fall apart, and the A’s will have nowhere to go, and nowhere to stay. It’s been rumored that Selig intends on giving Wolff & Company the L.A. Dodgers. If that happens, what happens to the A’s?

And then Selig leaves next year, and the sounds of contraction come up again.

by richwol1 on Jul 11, 2011 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

WE FINALLY GET ETHIER!!!!!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 11, 2011 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, someone told you the plan?

We get him in 2018, when he’s in the twilight of his career.

by LoneStranger on Jul 11, 2011 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

By then he'll someone manage to post a negative UZR defensively as a DH.

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

By then he'll someone manage to post a negative UZR defensively as a DH.

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Effing double reply fail!

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

heh

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd agree with you...

But then there’s the odd Montreal-Florida-Red Sox trade-off, so with this bunch, anything’s possible.

by richwol1 on Jul 11, 2011 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

3-way trade!

Wolff buys the Dodgers, Cuban takes over ownership of the A’s and Cuban gives McCourt a job working minimum wage doing his crap work…

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Has it actually been rumored?

The only mention of that I’ve seen is in Howard Bryant’s ESPN story, but Bryant only presents that as his own idea for what he thinks should happen and never suggests that Selig actually intends to.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 11, 2011 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's not true, the Coli will keep the A's as long as necessary.

The A’s will always have a home there….the problem is that “there” sucks.

by PL78 on Jul 12, 2011 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Would the Coli keep them if they started averaging less than 10,000 a game?

Is it still profitable at that point?
I’m actually curious…

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 13, 2011 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Coliseum Authority would love to keep them past 2013.

A new lease would have to be signed, and I’m sure it would end up putting a few million back into city and county coffers.

It would be dumb for the city to not try to get as much as they could. My conspiracy theory also states that Oakland is dragging on the whole EIR process just to delay the eventual move so that they can have more leverage and maximize what they get back in the lease.

by LoneStranger on Jul 13, 2011 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ugh, makes me want to scream

Why the F*CK would he put a committee together if he doesn’t intend to be there when an answer is made?
That is so unacceptable….

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good point

I just don’t understand how anything can take that long.
Besides, shouldn’t committees at least be responsible for providing periodic updates?
I mean, all we hear is that there’s no decision. Can’t we see proof of an actual effort?

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

See?
John Shea
Bud Selig talking about A’s ballpark situation 28 months after he appointed his committee. They’re working hard, he says.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jul 12, 2011 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm working hard on it, too

(sips beer)

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think it took the Generals

Near that long to plan the Normandy invasion.

Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969

by billyball1981 on Jul 12, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's what I've never understood

(and granted I haven’t followed the issue fully). How is there actually any “legal threat” from the Giants if MLB were to grant the A’s territorial rights to San Jose?

My understanding is that while the Giants weren’t really supposed to have rights to San Jose indefinitely, due to an oversight they were granted them indefinitely. OK.

However, don’t MLB’s rules quite clearly say that with a 3/4 vote of the owners, territorial rights can be given? (Or is that just “a move can be approved” assuming you have rights to move there?)

Because if so, what makes the Giants different from the other 29 teams, all of whom have to accept a 3/4 vote that might change the status quo? What legal claim could the Giants possibly make?

Again, maybe I just don’t understand what the actual rules are, but considering it would be in MLB’s best interest to have a franchise build a stadium, sell out games, and be popular, instead of play in an old stadium no fans or players want to come to, I don’t see how this keeps happening.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 11, 2011 4:10 PM PDT reply actions  

The rules do indeed give the league the authority to take the rights away.

In fact, I think the commissioner can do it all on his own even without the 3/4 vote (though he never would, and there would be repercussions if he did).

I assume the legal threat is Neukom suing MLB and saying their rules are illegal. I mean, suppose the MLB rules said the other 29 teams can vote one team off the island and confiscate all its money. That would be illegal. Neukom is arguing that this is, too.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 11, 2011 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here is what I do not get

Let’s say MLB gives the A’s the right to move to San Jose and the Giants sue and win, saying the Anti-Trust Rules are no longer valid, then what stops the A’s from moving to SJ? There would no territory rights stopping the A’s. So what do the Giants have to gain from suing?

During a contract holdout with Oakland in the early 1990s, Henderson said, "If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego."

by Man Bear Pig on Jul 11, 2011 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly.

They thread of suing is just another part of their efforts to put enough pressure on MLB/A’s to up the compensation package.

by LoneStranger on Jul 11, 2011 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

But there is no legal standing for one business to block another one from moving.

It is the Anti-Trust Exemption that is preventing the A’s from moving.Without it, the Giants can’t do anything. A Burger King can not sue a McDonald’s to stop them from moving in on the same street. It would make more sense for the A’s to try and sue the MLB and get those rules over turned because they are the ones that would benefit.

During a contract holdout with Oakland in the early 1990s, Henderson said, "If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego."

by Man Bear Pig on Jul 11, 2011 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that I thought the Giants could succeed on an anti-trust claim

Their theory would probably have to be based in contractual/property rights. Something to the effect of when they bought into MLB ownership, one of the bundle of rights they acquired was the ability to block any other MLB team from moving to Santa Clara County. That seems silly in light of the MLB rules allowing that territorial right to be taken away against their will, but I’m having trouble seeing what else they have to stand on.

by Glorious Mundy on Jul 11, 2011 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

The only thing I've seen is that the value of their club at the time of the last sale was dependant

on the rights to Santa Clara. It’s all a part of the plan to make sure they maximize their payout in the end.

1. Giants say NO WAY.
2. Selig says YES WAY.
3. Giants say WE WANT THIS MUCH.
4. Selig says YOU’LL TAKE THIS MUCH INSTEAD
5. A’s move.

Everything they say about how much San Jose means to them is only to get a higher number for parts 3 and 4. Assuming, of course, we ever make it past 2.

by LoneStranger on Jul 11, 2011 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, for one the Giants haven't gotten to step 3 yet

They have been saying that there is no price they will accept for the T rights.

by Glorious Mundy on Jul 12, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

As a finance professor of mine used to say

“everything has a price”

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Strongly Rec'd

Possibly the worst thing Selig has done in this whole debacle is to give off the impression that the Bay Area may not be a viable two-team market. This may just be CBA posturing (keeping contraction on the table), but it has obviously emboldened the Giants to shoot for the moon here.

by Glorious Mundy on Jul 12, 2011 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's the impression Selig has himself.

I don’t see any reason to think he’s changed his mind about the A’s move to Oakland being “a mistake.”

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 12, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

You may be right about what he thinks

And he may have been right about it being a mistake in the late 60s. He’s dead wrong if he still thinks it’s not viable, though. This is a huge market now, and the Giants are set up to thrive for a long time with or without a strong AL franchise sharing the area.

by Glorious Mundy on Jul 12, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think the Giants have already figured out step 3.

It just doesn’t do them any good to say a number, because then the question changes from “Can we move to SJ?” to “How many zeros do we write on this check?”

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

We're waiting for Oakland to release the draft EIR, I think.

If it doesn’t look good, we move on to 2. If it looks promising, then we’re on a different list. Though, that doesn’t mean that we don’t revisit the above list if they find out that it really won’t work.

The fear I have is that the EIR will say it’s all good, but then we get stuck with a problem of how to pay for it, how to get the land from the current owners and the lawsuits that will surly arise. Then guess what? We’re still stuck in limbo for a few more years.

I wouldn’t be surprised (conspiracy hat on now) if Oakland was trying to delay a move just so they could cash in on a payday from a new lease at the Coli for a few years.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's not much of a payday.

They get peanuts from the A’s.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 12, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Right now, yes.

But the contract runs out at the end of 2013. They already denied an extension, but I think that was to create a time crunch later in the process, perhaps giving the team less leverage. They’ll certainly ask for more than just peanuts in the next contract.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's actually not a crazy thing

Extort for a much higher lease cost? Makes a lot of sense if you’re Oakland.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

But it’s a big “Fuck You” to the A’s fans. About par for the course when it comes to Oakland supporting the A’s though.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Of course one business can block another

If they’ve got some sort of contract saying so. That’s what a non-compete agreement is all about. Neukom is hoping the Court will uphold territorial rights but deny the League to right to rescind them.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 2:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

It costs more to let 1/30 of your teams languish this way for years

than it does to fight a frivolous lawsuit.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 11, 2011 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well said

Everything that was posted was exactly what I was thinking, but I would have probably done a much worse job typing it out. I don’t post much but I do visit everyday, yet I can’t remain silent on this.

I’ve accepted the fact that the team won’t go anywhere for a while and as much as I hate that, I will continue to watch and attend games like I’ve been doing for the past 20+ years. I love this franchise. I hate the treatment they’re getting.

We as fans can’t do much other than rally with each other and be heard, but since Mr. Selig seems to have swept this franchise under the rug, I fear our cries are on deaf ears now.

So now what’s left for this franchise to do? Get draft picks? Tank the season and trade off players for as much as we can get? I’m really at a loss for words on this.

TL;DR version: MLB is a joke

"You no cookin" "YEA DO"

by PorkchopSandwiches on Jul 11, 2011 4:23 PM PDT reply actions  

joined...

do you have the names and email addresses of the other committee members?

by As_Reb on Jul 12, 2011 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've been an A's fan since the early 80's

Born and raised in Oakland. Live in Sacramento now. Hate the giants. The A’s have been integral to my family. But I have to admit, I almost don’t care anymore. The ownership has alienated the fan base. MLB has abandoned the team. The farm system sucks. Players are passive (wake up Barton, swing the damn bat!). The team is unwatchable. Has there ever been a proud franchise like this one that has been run into the ground? Perhaps the Seattle Supersonics? I can’t think of an example in baseball. At least the Pirates have a new ballpark (look what good it has done them?) The Dodgers will bounce back, just like Ohio State and USC. Those franchises always bounce back.
I look at Derek Jeter. 5 for 5 with a homerun for 3,000. Typical Yankee mojo. How could it be written anyother way? Giants, score less runs than the A’s, but still first place, with 4 or 5 all stars and a great ballpark. A’s – We trade McGuire for spear parts, but he was steroids anyway. Reggie Jackson go’s into the hall of fame as a Yankee. Catfish Hunter when he was a life didn’t care he went in as an Athletic. Dennis Eckersly works for the Red Sox. Andre Ethier and Carlos Jackson all stars for other teams. Jason Giambi takes a dump on Oakland for…the A’s. Jeremy Giambi can’t slide.
Yankees = Mojo
Giants = Mojo
Red Sox = Mojo
A’s = Supersonics

by StewCrew on Jul 11, 2011 5:45 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Two things:

1.) Who is Carlos Jackson?

2.) McGwire was hardly traded for spear parts. Have you ever tried making a spear out of TJ Mathews, Blake Stein, and Eric Ludwick? That spear would be even less useful than the those 3 guys.

by ozzman99 on Jul 11, 2011 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I see your point

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 11, 2011 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

annnnd

hey little girl
…want a cookie?

by ChickenStanley on Jul 11, 2011 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

{quivers}

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 11, 2011 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

The problem is we didn't get the point.

When we traded McGwire for spear parts, all we got was the shaft.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 11, 2011 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I didn't see Selig's "annual chat"

Did he take any questions about the A’s situation?

by sc00by on Jul 11, 2011 6:15 PM PDT reply actions  

Hahaha.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Jul 11, 2011 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not to hijack this, but since it's up top now I just wanted to drop in a comment re: Bobby Cramer

He’s had some nerve problems in his back recently and that’s probably the biggest reason (along with other injuries the team’s had) the A’s DFA’d him. He was offered a minor league contract but decided to decline it and said that once he’s feeling better again he plans to sign with a team in Japan.

This was something he’d told me was on his mind already back when he was playing in the Mexican League last year because some contacts had been developed playing internationally, and at least one Japanese team was looking to bring him over in the offseason but the A’s wanted to keep him around.

Personally I know he didn’t have much of a future here but I would have liked to see him stick around in a setup that was more beneficial for him. On the other hand, I hope he plays well over there, earns a spot on another MLB team sometime and gets another opportunity instead of being shuttled back and forth between wasting away in the bullpen and pitching off and on in Triple-A. At lest, I’m glad I got the chance to get to know him a little. I’ll always remember seeing his first two starts and the messages he wrote on the copies of a couple photos I’d sent along with others for his family.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jul 11, 2011 6:18 PM PDT reply actions   4 recs

I wish him nothing but the best of luck. When it's all said and done, he still gets to play baseball for a living

that’s awesome for him.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 11, 2011 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Take that Japanese money, Crama-san!

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 11, 2011 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

and take Matt Carson with you. I bet that dude has some DEBT.

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 11, 2011 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kurema-san?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 2:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

even better.

I was drunk last night, so there you have it.

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 12, 2011 6:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

QOTM, 20 years ago

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 12, 2011 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

we still have an imbalance

its just isn’t as bad as it was 20 years ago. china idia etc are worse but i don’t think they have high caliber baseball that would pay for the likes of a bobby cramer……

by heartstopper on Jul 12, 2011 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I could see a Korean team ponying up some bucks for a guy like Cramer.

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 12, 2011 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nicely Written

I would predict that MLB will make its decision after the Oakland city council certifies the EIR for Victory Ct. I believe that’s why they haven’t made a decision yet, since if they are really giving Oakland a chance to keep the A’s, they need to wait until that review is complete and the City goes on record about the project.

I also am really frustrated by the A’s situation, but if it means giving Oakland a chance for a new ballpark near JLS, then I can live with a little more delay. But if somehow MLB decides in favor of Oakland, the city council and mayor better not screw it up.

by jiggsi on Jul 11, 2011 7:04 PM PDT reply actions  

If that's the case, presumably Selig would just say so:

“We’ll have a decision as soon as the Oakland city council certifies the EIR for Victory Ct.” I think what Selig wants is to do nothing because that makes the Giants happy, and for whatever reason he wants to make the Giants happy.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 11, 2011 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

The timing of the giants winning the world series could not have been worse. It gave the giants all the leverage with Selig. The one thing I don’t understand is that no other team has anyone that could move into their market, except if they decided to put a team in Brooklyn. Knowing this, why would any other owner care if they voted to change the rights. In fact giving the A’s sanjose gets more revenue sharing away from the A’s. They become self sufficient. The red sox’s and Yankess owners would love nothing more than not to pay the A’s. If I were an owner this is a no brainer for me. This will never affect my market, and I don’t have to pay the A’s. Does the owner of the Red Sox think they will put a team in Providence. You think they will put a team in Louisville. I don’t know if Portland is in Seattle’s rights, but there are no other places to put teams.

by Slide Giambi on Jul 11, 2011 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think they can say, “Look at our attendance, look at our tv ratings. If you do anything to change this we will be very upset.”

by Slide Giambi on Jul 11, 2011 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

The two New York teams and Philly

must surely be worried about a team in the NY metro area or northern New Jersey. If not for territorial rights, that would totally make sense. Its a better market than the various other cities tossed around.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 2:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's why MLB can't just hand the A's the rights

Unless an agreement is reached and the Giants are bought off, I don’t see Selig giving the A’s San Jose. And that, I would guess, is the reason we haven’t heard anything from MLB. The Giants are sticking to their guns, knowing they have enough votes to block San Jose (such as the Yankees, Mets, Phillies, and any other team that might find its terriroty threatened by any move down the road).

by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2011 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm guessing

But this seems reasonable.

by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2011 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

those 3 + SF are really the only credible objectors right now

Plus, the fact remains, as Wolff loves to say, that the A’s have a unique territorial split and are only moving 45 miles away. It’s hard to say that Tampa moving to NJ/NY is the same as the A’s going to SJ.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

...assuming there's no vote-trading

Politics works by vote-trading (you vote for my bill; I’ll vote for yours) so it isn’t necessarily a question of credible objectors. Neukom might have the votes to block a move right now.

by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Vote-trading

Interesting idea, although I’m not sure what Wolff would trade votes for.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's why I think Neukom would be in a stronger position

You’re talking four of the richest teams in MLB on the side of the Giants. Who knows what they can offer, and can Wolff make counter-offers? The wealthy teams hold the cards when it comes to compromising on the luxury tax or any idea that helps create parity.

by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

he trades the other side

for other teams wanting to move though i don’t think there are many of them currently.

what wolfe trades is the increased profitablity of other teams as the a’s now get more revenue reducing their revenue sharing dollars

by heartstopper on Jul 12, 2011 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's true they can't just hand the rights over.

They need to show why this is a unique situation and doesn’t match up to anything related to teams moving to NY/PHI, etc. This way he doesn’t open up the door to, say, Tampa Bay easily moving north.

The historic rights to Santa Clara county, IMO, are that ‘unique’ part to the whole thing.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

also unique is the a's could theoreticall build on the border of alameda/santa clara counties

or even on the border of sanjose and milpitas essentially putting them within the same fanbase as they are in with a park built in san jose. it makes absolutely no sense from a rational point of view but when $$$s are at issue it makes all the sense in the world

by heartstopper on Jul 12, 2011 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's where Fremont was was supposed to come in.

It’s the southern-most city in Alameda County. A couple miles south and you’re in Milpitas and Santa Clara County. Building on the actual border wouldn’t be a good idea because it’s pretty much industrial and houses. But I get what you’re saying. MIDDLE FINGER, GIANTS!

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

The problem with that is

If Oakland is the answer MLB comes up with, Wolff will probably sell the team. That will take time. That would add another few years to the timeframe. And the new owner may just move the team out of the bay area entirely. I feel the need to repear that Oakland really isn’t an option unless there is a buyer out there that is ready to pay a fair price for the franchise and privately financing an Oakland stadium. I don’t think that person exists.

by DrDoom on Jul 12, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

*repeat

Why can’t we edit posts : (

by DrDoom on Jul 12, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe. But if Oakland starts actually building the stadium (buying property, clearing space, etc.)

then it will be a nice windfall for him when he sells the team. For him, he cashes out on top. For the new owner, they have the guarantee of a new stadium.

by Billy Frijoles on Jul 12, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, they should have

But they didn’t do it before, so they’re finally doing it now.

Selig wants to delay this as much as possible so that he can retire and wash his hands of it. There is no reason for him to state now that the committee will make its recommendation after the EIR is certified. He’s accountable to no one but the other owners and he doesn’t need to commit himself to anything.

by jiggsi on Jul 11, 2011 7:20 PM PDT reply actions  

About hitting in Oakland

Mt. Davis went up in 1995. Giambi was AL MVP in 2000 and Tejada was in 2002. Good hitters can hit anywhere. Clearly, we have no good hitters on the 2011 version of the A’s.

Didn’t Beltre sign for way more dollar$ in Texas? Didn’t Berkman want to play the field, when the A’s were offering a DH role? I’m not buying the “no one wants to play in Oakland” line.

It took the creator of this site to say it clearly for all: “One thing I will say about Schott and Hofmann, and believe me, I couldn’t stand those guys, but they didn’t come out and declare the franchise a lame duck in its current location which effectively alienated the Oakland loyalists and also gave potential free agents little appeal in signing here.”

Great post Blez!

" Sleepy Floyd is Superman!!!"

by CoachBarry on Jul 11, 2011 7:20 PM PDT reply actions  

Roids

Post Roids, only the monster Frank Thomas proved to be a great hitter and that was for one year.

by DaPorts! on Jul 11, 2011 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nick Swisher - same year

 HR RBI BB BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+
 35 95 97 .254 .372 .493 .864 125

he did that in 157 games, The Big Hurt had better numbers in 20 less games (interleague?)

what year do we consider “post-roids” anyways?

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jul 12, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

a player with legit power can hit HRs in the coliseum

I’ve seen quite a few of them do so in the post-roids era. The problem is that most of them were not on the A’s team.

The coliseum is certainly more of a pitcher’s than hitter’s park. but there are plenty of other parks that fit that description.

The coliseum may be a factor in some free agents’ decisions, but according to what players and others have said – even publicly – there’s a perception of a lack of a culture of winning (perhaps reinforced by having Geren as manager since 2007) that also influences their decision against signing.

by OaklandSi on Jul 12, 2011 6:49 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

No one wants to play in Oakland

Come to terms with it. Put yourself in their shoes. Terrible hitting environment, terrible amenities, no fans, and no media attention. If any player expects a contract after their current one they will try very hard to not sign with the A’s unless the money is overwhelmingly better. If Beltre came here instead of the Redsox, do you think he would ever have gotten a $90 million deal? He probably wouldn’t have gotten half that coming out of here.

by DrDoom on Jul 12, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think the crappy facilities bothers players

more than the lack of fans.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

i think we need to call in all our sports media connections

blez, etc., obviously know plenty of people who have national cred – we need a bunch of sportswriters to keep bringing this story up over and over again. even the espn fools…if olney, kurkijan, gammons, etc., brought this up a few times, there’d be some traction. selig’s inaction has killed this team. the poor drafting hasn’t helped, but we basically have no leeway whatsoever. worse, we have great pitching. if we had some resolution by now, we could probably recruit some hitting in FA, but since we can’t, i’m worried we’ll lose our young arms to FA before we are able to put anything that resembles a MLB-level offense behind them. we need national sportswriters to go to town on selig about this ad naseum

by guy incognito on Jul 11, 2011 7:44 PM PDT reply actions  

Timing is key in politics

I think the Moneyball premier presents a big opportunity to draw attention to this issue. The stadium issue belongs in the postlude of the movie… “The A’s still play in the same decrepit venue. In 2008 Commissioner Selig created a Blue Ribbon Committee to study the issue. Three years later, it has yet to issue a single statement. The A’s sit in last place in the AL West.”

Someone should create a youtube video or something, called “The Real Moneyball Postlude” and spread it virally. If I were a kid in film school, it’d be a great mini documentary topic.

by nateinberkeley on Jul 11, 2011 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s difficult to estimate how much impact the movie could have, but if it achieves box office success you potentially have millions of people wondering, “If Billy Beane is that great, why are the A’s so terrible now?”

by nateinberkeley on Jul 11, 2011 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

exhaust all angles

the inaction is literally killing our team. baseball already is a haves vs. have nots sport, and we’re already low on the have nots, but this is making it even more pronounced, and the only reason we can’t move to a more viable market like SJ is because we gave those rights to the giants to keep them in SF. i mean, seriously, you couldn’t write a more ridiculous chain of events. tell me that this wouldn’t get a ton of media interest…if anyone opted to cover it.

by guy incognito on Jul 11, 2011 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tyler, the State of our A's has produced Nausea

It’s a sick feeling I get when I think about all of the years this team has given us hope and now we look at a soul-less ship guided by no one. The home which they play received the dubious nickname of " the Mausoleum" way back in 1968.
While Finley’s A’s played in an era where money didn’t control the movement of players as much as today at least a talented ownership made a great impact.

Beane’s impact is diminishing because we are playing in a venue that lost its appeal when the Raiders returned. Too bad, the view of the Oakland hills was beautiful and there wasn’t a bad seat (maybe a far one but not a bad one) in the house.

I can’t blame the current management other than that they should have been wiser with the their intent to build a new stadium ie don’t count unhatched chickens.

I really loved the Fremont idea and hoped for it years before the A’s made motions that way. It still would be great if it weren’t for the EIR that stalled everything. San Jose is a pipe dream as long as Bud lets Newcomb sic. believe tahat he has some mystical power as a former head of the ABA to which I say BFHD!

C’mon, let us A’s fans follow our destiny in realize our dreams like those of the other clubs. Instead, we remain in purgatory in a complete state of nausea.

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Jul 11, 2011 8:32 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Far as I'm concerned the Giants should be ashamed of themselves as well

The fact that we gave them territorial rights to the area where their park sits now should be a story that is picked up by the local media. They should run with it as much as they can…
Wolff, Beane, anyone that can, should make this information VERY public. This would either force the hand of the Giants as it would make them look like greedy, douchy hypocrites and would probably even upset some of their fans, or else it would make Selig and friends do something in order to stop it from getting out of hand.
Screw it if that’s not considered ethical, at this point the A’s organization should do whatever they can to get what is absolutely essential in order to run this franchise.

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2011 8:57 PM PDT reply actions  

There was the Howard Bryant article on ESPN...

it’s hard to get more public than that (if you’re trying to raise an issue in the sporting world)

by Kallus on Jul 12, 2011 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah...that was good, but there has to be a constant drumbeat on this issue

because most people have no idea what’s going on. if more people wrote bryant-like articles or used it as talking points, pressure would mount, because the giants are very much cartoon-like bad guys in this story.

by guy incognito on Jul 12, 2011 5:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

I do remember that article

I forgot it was on ESPN though.
That being said, as guy incognito says above, one article or tweet periodically won’t do a thing. This needs to be something that people will get sick of seeing when they open the paper…

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 13, 2011 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

simply

too many excuses. no – i’m not saying beane should be able to put together a 100 win team every year, but blaming selig for a lack of direction or a plan that did not work out doesn’t cut it. but hey, if you want to point the finger, blame the political atmosphere and economy in california that makes it impossible to get anything done. the A’s could have had a new stadium years ago if not for those two issues, neither of which have anything to do with selig.

btw, selig is a clown and an easy target, but he isn’t responsible for changing the reality the a’s are stuck in.

by cvdoug on Jul 11, 2011 9:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Who has that kind of time?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 11, 2011 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

read every post??

sorry no time for that. i commented on the OP that made no mention of the likes of jerry brown and the regulatory environment that made it far more difficult to get a stadium deal done many years ago. if i disagree or was repetitive or even if i missed the point so what. i wasted 5 seconds of your valuable time. oh the horror.

by cvdoug on Jul 11, 2011 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unless I'm mistaken

This is the first post to surpass my Trade Him At The Deadline fanpost in recs.

But I haven’t been around that much, so I may have missed something.

by oblique on Jul 12, 2011 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

That was gold.

The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. —Joe Posnanski 8/29/09

by pam5981 on Jul 12, 2011 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey stranger!

The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. —Joe Posnanski 8/29/09

by pam5981 on Jul 12, 2011 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

This was beautiful

It’s like you took the words right out of my mouth (ok, and made them far more eloquent than I would have). I don’t fault Wolfe – he has tried to spend money and (at least theoretically) has explored stadium options in Fremont (two), Oakland and San Jose. All of these alternatives are better than the “Las Vegas A’s” or the “Portland A’s”. And, while it is tempting to fault Beane (and he’s not perfect), he has at least attempted to put together what we all thought back in March looked like a contender.

You’re right. The bulk of the blame lies at the foot of Selig and his morons, um, er, minions. They solved this problem before with the Nationals. It’s not easy but it’s not that hard and if any of the rest of us dilly-dallied for two years on a strategic project at work we’d be sacked – and rightfully so. Oh, and we would have been sacked a year ago or more.

I was so tempted to love the idea floated in the SJ Mercury a few weeks ago about challenging the anti-trust clause. Unfortunately, even if we won that battle, we’d likely lose the war.

Great post. Thank you!

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jul 11, 2011 10:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Silent Bob

I’m a long-time lurker and rare poster on AN, an ancient season ticket holder through great, good, and bad years, a fan of the A’s and the A’s only.

I concur with Blez as he said it nearly perfectly. "One thing I will say about Schott and Hofmann, and believe me, I couldn’t stand those guys, but they didn’t come out and declare the franchise a lame duck in its current location which effectively alienated the Oakland loyalists and also gave potential free agents little appeal in signing here."

But what I would add to the discussion is while MLB and the Giants, the City of Oakland, NIMBYs, and the economy, and on and on have been barriers, I have loathed the way the current ownership has killed the golden goose in the meantime. We could go through all of the reasons (some of them probably just feelings), and talk about the tarp, the failure to capitalize on sell-outs, fireworks nights (an unparallelled East Bay tradition), and the A’s history, as well as the conspicuous lack of ex- A’s players walking the stands or immortalized on monuments, or signing bats for the kids. I’m sure there are ways to explain Wolff and Fischer to make them out as sympathetic figures in this. But I can’t shake how I have loathed their downcasting of the great A’s organization since they took it over.

When I die I want to go in my sleep like my grandpa, not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car.

by BordickBrosiusBerroa on Jul 11, 2011 10:55 PM PDT reply actions   4 recs

I call BS

Wolff has only made light of something that has been obvious to anyone who has attended a game in the Coliseum in the past 10 years: it is no longer a suitable baseball facility. It’s not as if pre-Wolff, the Coliseum was pristine and beautiful. It’s been bad for 15, 10, 5, and 2 years before and is today. Is he the best owner? Probably not. Is he working at the heart of the matter, the thing that can help raise this franchise out of permanent mediocrity? Yes. At least someone is, because up until a year ago, I don’t think anyone in the East Bay gave a crap about the A’s.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

(I'm referring to politicians in the last sentence)

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

But can't there be a happy-medium?

Sure, bemoan the current facilities and point out the need for a new ballpark whenever you get the chance, Lew.
But this doesn’t mean you have to talk and act as if the team is completely unable to draw fans or compete in the meantime. The Giants celebrate everything. (One of the things I admire and hate about ‘em at the same time.) I used to laugh at them, because I’d think, “For a team that’s never won a Series, they sure act like they’re successful.”
I understand constantly banging the drum for a new facility – I really do – but Wolff acts like the little kid that says, “Fine, if we don’t play by my rules, then we don’t play at all.”
My feeling is that ownership is reluctant to celebrate/promote/embrace Oakland A’s history because they feel it “hurts” their chances to leave – same reason they don’t go balls out to promote the current team as well.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Jul 12, 2011 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's just about not muddying the message

It is a fact that the A’s are pretty much 30/30 in attendance. More people come = more money = better payroll/stuff. What’s more, it’s not even clear in the current climate that the A’s can do anything to really have a sustained increase in attendance other than make the World Series or have the Yankees show up 30 games a year.

Plus, the more I listen to Wolff, the more I’m convinced that he’s really a hands-off owner. He has Beane who handles baseball stuff and comes to him with money issues, and he has Crowley who runs the business. I don’t think Wolff is saying to Crowley “Tell you what, Mike, don’t bother promoting.” He’s gives his guys jobs and lets them be.

Think back to the Giants pre-Phone Booth. They had no statues, no self-promotion, no nothing. They had a chance to wipe Candlestick and its decrepit-ness away and they did. I would say that the A’s are following a similar path.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Hmm interesting.

I think it just sucks that it feels like the A’s blame the fans for not coming out when many have said they feel alienated. Also when the A’s suck for 5 years straight why would they expect fans to come out?

Why do they think they deserve our money for fielding a less than competitive team? I don’t like seeing our team get shutout 5 days in a row or some shit like that. It gets pathetic after awhile and the blame for empty seats should definitely not lie on the people who have the least control over a situation.

Though not sure if Lew and Co. have ANY chance as currently situated.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Jul 12, 2011 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good post

I think people overstate what Wolff has said and the effect it had. Most people don’t even know who he is and what he said wasn’t that bad. He is an easy scapegoat, but directing anger at him is misguided and dangerous as you basically support the team leaving the bay area as a result.

by DrDoom on Jul 12, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

So you don't want your ownership to be honest?

Got it.

They told it like it was… rather diplomatically too. If saying they want to move to Fremont or Oakland makes you stop caring about the team, then you aren’t much of a fan.

Lets be realistic here. The south bay is much more viable. This is common sense. Oakland has a whole host of issues. We should be thrilled we have an owner who wants to privately finance a new stadium… that is amazing. We should be supporting that effort in whatever form it takes as long as the team remians within an hour or two drive.

I’ve been driving an hour to games my whole life… if you are a fan, it isn’t a big deal. What is a big deal, is the crappy stadium when compared to the comfort of my home and a large HD TV.

by DrDoom on Jul 12, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

It’s pathetic how their appears to be so much inertia to overcome any change and the overall perception is that MLB let’s us believe this is acceptable when it clearly is not.

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Jul 12, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

In the Meantime, Love for Love

I think I’m a fan of the A’s, perhaps not “much of a fan” by some measure, but a dollar-paying, taking-the-kids-to-the-game-attending fan. I think you missed the gist of what I meant. I’d love a new stadium as much as anyone. (Don’t tell anyone but the A’s games at ATT have been great to go to except for the losing.) However, in the meantime, the A’s are a storied franchise with their best history in Oakland. Really what I think is missing is that the A’s organization should be “celibrating everything” as one of the poster above said about the Giants. Hendu, Stew, Jose, Big Hurt, Chavy, Miguel, Hatty, Art Howe, Rickey, Rickey, Rickey, ball girls, the Earthquake, Eck, Dallas, Giambi, LaRussa, Catfish, Vida, Huddy, Mulder, Zito, Menechino, 20-wins, kid announcers, Little League BP, Ernie Riles!, Big Ben Grieve, Mac, Fan Fest, outfield drummers, and more Rickey, in the meantime. So the City of Oakland is a pain in the ass. So MLB won’t act. So what? In the meantime, the A’s have it in their power to provide memorable experiences for even casual fans by simply acknowledging the history, the fans, Oakland and the East Bay in general.

When I die I want to go in my sleep like my grandpa, not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car.

by BordickBrosiusBerroa on Jul 12, 2011 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions   5 recs

Rec'd

(except for the Ben Grieve part)

M-A, M-A-R, M-A-R-K, Ell-is!

by Englishmajor on Jul 12, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Menechino was the man

"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King

by YonYonson on Jul 12, 2011 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

There won't be anything until the new CBA is done

I still think that the possibility of contraction (unlikely to occur) is too useful as a bargaining chip to give up before the new CBA is done.

by throwmonkey on Jul 11, 2011 11:09 PM PDT reply actions   3 recs

Yes, this.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 2:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Need An Answer

Right now, I don’t really care where it is, whether it be in Oakland or San Jose. I am frustrated at the fact that Selig and the MLB can’t figure anything out. I’m not a big fan of Lew Wolff, but at least he’s trying. The situation that the A’s are in now is one that really hinders their chances of winning and performing well.

by Jason James on Jul 12, 2011 1:28 AM PDT reply actions  

On a lighter and nostalgic note, did anyone see that spot on Baseball Tonight with Mrs. Fields?

Never knew the A’s were the first to have ballgirls, smoking hot ballgirls at that. Now we have ball dudes and security guards which is perhaps the reason we’re drawing so low.

by Dukemen on Jul 12, 2011 2:28 AM PDT reply actions  

i never knew that....

first MC Hammer being a batboy and now Mrs Fields being a ball girl

by heartstopper on Jul 12, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

MC Hammer was more than a bat-boy, too.

He would call Finley in Chicago and hold a radio up to the phone so he could hear the games. He even did a little play-by-play for Finley.

Some players claim that MC Hammer was one of Finley’s eyes and ears in the clubhouse, and would rat them out.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

MC Hammer's brother was the batboy.

He himself was “clubhouse assistant”. His stage name comes from one of his nicknames from that time. Players thought he looked like Hank Aaron (who was known as “the Hammer”), so they called him “Little Hammer”, which later became MC Hammer when he started his rap career. His other nickname was “Pipeline” because he passed on news to Charlie Finley.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

and the blonde one’s here to prove all the coli needs is a facelift.

by AV on Jul 12, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, I'm pretty sure that's not why we draw so low.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

by all means, though, please A's bring back the smoking hot ballgirls

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Thanks for writing this, Blez

What a sad state of affairs this is. The only positive I can see is the increased attention the stadium issue has gotten in the last couple of months. But it already seems obvious that Selig couldn’t care less about outside pressure.

Having said that, he also hasn’t faced intense pressure. He gets a pass from the owners, who probably just don’t want to get involved in a dispute between two franchises. Even if it is a stupid and pointless dispute, because the Giants should just shut the hell up and let the A’s become a more viable franchise by getting a new stadium.

I would ask all of AN to think of every possible way we could get pressure on Selig and raise awareness of this issue. The idea of sending him questions for his “PR Bullshit Fluff Session” (aka “All-Star Chat”) was a good one, and although he predictably didn’t address the stadium issue, it was still a smart move to try.

Keep writing letters to Selig. Pester columnists and beat writers to keep asking about the stadium. Call in to radio shows, local and national (if you can get on), and talk about it. Think of any way you can to keep the pressure on. After all, we should have a lot more free time in the second half of the season without a pennant race to worry about.

"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on Jul 12, 2011 2:47 AM PDT reply actions  

+1

You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ

by bakerbeachboy on Jul 12, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

OT: The Cardinals are still trying to trade Rasmus

Surely no team can top a Cahill+Bailey package? Lets put that on the table. Rasmus just doesnt get along with TLR, he’d probably be our Cargo if acquired.

Get it done Billy.

by PL78 on Jul 12, 2011 8:17 AM PDT reply actions  

too much

One plus some other parts, especially if they want to get rid of him,

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Way too much

They can have Bailey if they want him, but that’s it.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 12, 2011 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cahill is not "expendable"

He’s a dependably healthy, cost-controlled, well above-average pitcher who still has upside. Selling him for Colby Rasmus is selling him for pennies on the dollar.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 13, 2011 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because a writer thinks they might think about it = they're trying to trade him?

right.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

OK I'll take my wild shot at a double-whammy...

Cahill, Crisp (CF replacement), and Wuertz for Colby Rasmus
Willingham, Bailey, and R. Dixon (toolsy OF replacement) for Domonic Brown

Leaves you with this, ATM, for 2012:

Weeks – 2B
Barton – 1B
Brown – RF
Rasmus – CF
Carter – DH
Taylor/Sweeney – LF
Sizemore – 3B
Suzuki – C
Pennington – SS

G. Gonzalez, Anderson, McCarthy, Ross, Outman, Moscoso, (Braden?)
Devine, Ziggy, De Los Santos, Breslow

Eh. And of course, I have no idea how realistic those trades are. If I’m dealing Cahill and getting Rasmus, maybe there’s a way to get Allen Craig into a bigger package? He can play OF, has played 3B, and can probably play 1B, and he can hit. Could Cahill and Bailey get you Rasmus and Craig?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 12, 2011 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Then who do we trade to Pittsburgh or Cincinnati when they come desperately calling?

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 12, 2011 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ha! This!

Willingham to Pittsburgh for Garret Jones plz!

by PL78 on Jul 12, 2011 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Too much for Rasmus.

Rasmus is good and all, but let’s not get too crazy about him. He’s not a great defensive centerfielder and may not be able to stay there long-term. He’s also going to be headed into his arbitration years next year, making him significantly more expensive than Brown. There’s some upside left with Rasmus, but how much beyond being an excellent offensive CF but just pretty good offensive LF/RF?

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 12, 2011 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

If you think we could get it, maybe

Cahill, Crisp, and Wuertz for Colby Rasmus and Allen Craig, then Willingham and Bailey for D. Brown.

Is that in the ballpark? I don’t know. Once you deal Cahill, frankly your rotation isn’t that great. Meanwhile your lineup is better, but enough better? And of course your bullpen is worse.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 12, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think Phily wants to get rid of Dom Brown.

I’d rather shoot for Michael Bourn and Rasmus in the same OF. That would be marvelous. We could even bring Manny back and stick him in a folding chair in LF if those 2 burners were out there.

by PL78 on Jul 12, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cahill is a year younger than Rasmus and is signed through 2017 at a reasonable price.

Rasmus is going to be arby eligible for the first time this year. Over 3 seasons so far he’s a total of -1.5 UZR in centerfield, and out of his 3 seasons he’s only been an above average hitter during the year he had a .354 BABIP.

I would not trade 6 years of Cahill for 3 of Rasmus, no.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
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by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would, Cahill's not that great and his value is high.

Apparently adding Bailey is too much so Cahill-Rasmus straight swap is about right. Trade either Suzuki, Powell or Recker for Garrett Jones, then trade AJ Griffin for Michael Bourn for CF and stick Rasmus in RF.

CF: Bourn
2B: Weeks
RF: Rasmus
1B: Jones
DH: Matsui/Carter
3B: Sizemore
LF: Crisp
C: Whoever’s left
SS: Pennington

That’s wayyyyy better than what we have now, and looks good next year too.

by PL78 on Jul 12, 2011 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm with Mike

I think Cahill is more desirable and valuable than Rasmus. Rasmus has not hit well enough yet.

by echerrst on Jul 12, 2011 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

the idea that you want to trade AJ Griffin is hilarious to me,

since it’s clear that you value him more than anyone else in the world.

"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang

by King Richard on Jul 13, 2011 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

i would like to see recker get a shot and

sweeney would be a replacement for any OF position

by heartstopper on Jul 12, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

At first I was thinking "holy crap yes - sign me up"

Then I looked at some numbers. Rasmus has been worth about 1.5 more wins than Coco over the last three years. I think I’d rather keep Coco for 7M/year than trade our 2nd best player for Rasmus.

John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Jul 12, 2011 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's 24.

Your reasons are obsolete.

by PL78 on Jul 12, 2011 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Come on now...

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 13, 2011 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't get the facilities thing

Are you telling me the Coliseum locker room and facilities cannot be renovated? Really? You are telling me the Red Sox locker rooms are still in pre-war condition? What would that cost to put in some windows, maybe some tile, a little hard wood. F*&% even Marble isn’t going to kill them v. losing every season? 1 million?

And I think Wolfe shoulders some blame. He bought the team expecting to change stadiums. Like I tell me friends, don’t date someone you want to change, you have to accept them as they are. He took a risk and gamble, with no guarantees, and it has not paid off. Well, he had to have a better plan B than pointing at Selig. Admittedly, the guy needs an answer, but he has to generate some answers.

by mikedaviswhereareyou on Jul 12, 2011 9:43 AM PDT reply actions  

Wolff doesn't own the Coliseum

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Get real

I’m sure if Wolff offered to pony up to refurbish the locker room, he could work something out with the city. The point is he is pulling a Major League and whining his way out of town.

by SteveMcPhatty on Jul 12, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Do you rent?

If so, I would suggest broaching the idea of refurbishing your kitchen with the landlord and see what he or she says.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

And more to the point, why pony up to improve something you don't own?

That benefits the owner only, not the renter. It’s basically throwing money away.

The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. —Joe Posnanski 8/29/09

by pam5981 on Jul 12, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

This

If he’s going to blow $10M, I’d rather he instead use the money to sign better players.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Heh.

Yeah, I’m sure any landlord would love their tenant to sink money into a project from which only they would reap the benefits.

The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. —Joe Posnanski 8/29/09

by pam5981 on Jul 12, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

instead of the players getting depressed everytime they think of going to work

they could look forward to it. FA supposedly do not like the “facilities” (not just the bp) and would more likely sign

by heartstopper on Jul 12, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

There IS a reason

If for $1M you could start attracting FAs you couldn’t attract otherwise, you’d make that $1M back in spades. The question is whether that’s actually the case.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 12, 2011 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

As I understand it, it's not the quality so much as the size and scope of the facilities available

Plus, even if you do that, there’s still no one in the stands.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

The other question is whether it's possible.

It sounds like the physical situation is such that a renovation would be problematic. Isn’t the sewage seepage problem related to how the building is settled into the ground? That’s not something you fix by tearing down some walls and adding extra space.

Also, for all the talk of landlords being happy when tenants improve their property for free, I’m not convinced the Coliseum Authority would let Lew do renovations.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

What good are windows for a clubhouse in the bowels of the concrete foundation?

I’ve been in there from tours held. There’s not a lot that can be done with that place.

And no, Wolff can’t make any physical changes to the stadium.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jul 12, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nonsense

If he were actually interested in making the best of it, he could easily cut a deal with Oakland to refurbish the locker room. How do you think Mt. Davis occurred?

You’re so enraptured by your San Jose pipe dream that you’re not making any sense. Lew, is that you?

by SteveMcPhatty on Jul 12, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

There are fundamental structural flaws to the Coliseum

There are sewage and drainage issues. It cannot be improved to the point of being comparable to other stadiums. They have done what they can, but it is a lost cause. Everyone acknowledges a new stadium is needed. We moved beyond that discussion years ago. Lets not move backwords.

by DrDoom on Jul 12, 2011 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not everyone was around for that discussion.

It’s not “moving backwards” to explain it again to someone who needs to catch up.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I took the post to be more adversarial and less inquisitive so I responded accordingly.

by DrDoom on Jul 12, 2011 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

One of the biggest issues with a baseball remodel of the Coliseum, is the foul territory.

The best way to shrink it would be to lower the field, so that more field-level seating could be angled inward. With the field already below sea-level( correct me if that info is incorrect), the existing drainage problems, as well as complaints from the Raiders, I don’t see how it can be addressed.

i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72

by Tutu-late on Jul 12, 2011 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep

You just can’t really add field seats without lowering the playing field itself. There’d be no viewing angle.

Then you’d also have to lower the dugouts, do something about the outfield seating configuration, etc.

It’s not really sensible. I believe you’re right about the field being below sea level as well.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jul 12, 2011 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Google Maps is saying that the parking lot is 10-11 feet above sealevel.

But when you walk up on street level, you’re above the field…and you’re more than 10-11 feet up, aren’t you?

by danmerqury on Jul 12, 2011 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I believe you walk onto the food concourse.

i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72

by Tutu-late on Jul 12, 2011 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, it's a field that's recessed lower than the lot around it

And your elevation doesn’t change when you enter the main entrances, except for maybe a slight incline down toward the main concourse.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jul 12, 2011 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here ya go, from Wiki
The Coliseum features an underground design where the playing surface is actually below ground level (21 feet / 6 meters below sea level). Consequently fans entering the stadium find themselves walking on to the main concourse of the stadium at the top of the first level of seats. This, combined with the hill that was built around the stadium to create the upper concourse, means that only the third deck is visible from outside the park. This gives the Coliseum the illusion of being a short stadium from the outside.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jul 12, 2011 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

That ranks pretty small in the overall universe of

“wow, someone at WIkipedia put a lot of effort into…”.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

This seems more of a wasted effort.

i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72

by Tutu-late on Jul 13, 2011 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

This brings us to the REAL problems enticing hitters to come to Oakland post-steriods.

If we don’t fix the field, the other improvements are moot.

i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72

by Tutu-late on Jul 12, 2011 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

flagged for baiting

I don't feel that I'm feeling your feelings, about these feelings that you feel.

by doctorK on Jul 12, 2011 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Wolff is an incompetent whiner who is looking for excuses for his own failures. The team routinely drew 2 million a year to post Mt. Davis Coliseum when the team was, ya know, fun to watch, from 2000-2006. Now, thanks to 5 years of his and MLB’s negligence, the team is drawing 1.4 million http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/OAK/attend.shtml

 If he was actually interested in making the best of it, he could throw money at the problem and refurbish the locker room. He could do creative promotions. He could partner with slow food types like Alice Waters and Kermit Lynch. He could have great Mexican food from Fruitvale at the stadium. But of course he doesn’t want to. He just wants to complain his way out of town. What a contemptible loser.

by SteveMcPhatty on Jul 12, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

This again?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wrong

Most fans don’t know who wolff is or what he said. The 1 thing that coiciding with a decline in attendance was AT&T park. We can’t be competitive to the casual fans (Giants fans) with that park so close.

When we had the better park we drew more. Now we don’t. And the disparity is huge.

by DrDoom on Jul 12, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wasn't AT&T Park built in 2000?

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 12, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not sure

And our attended was bad despite being a good team from 2000-2006. I went to the playoff games and they didn’t even sell out.

by DrDoom on Jul 12, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

?? Maybe YOUR playoff game.

The ones against the Yankees sure as hell were sold out.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Jul 12, 2011 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Some did

Yea the Yankees sold out. The Twins didn’t.

by DrDoom on Jul 14, 2011 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, they've already got a collaboration project with the slow food people.

Have you seen the concession lines?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Slow people" food!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 12, 2011 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've said this before...

It’s not as if the Wolff-Fisher regime is actively discouraging people from coming to the Coliseum. I mean, there’s free parking Tuesday for games with shitty teams; There’s $2 Wednesdays; there’s the usual mix of various gift promotions.

But the gift promotions are cheaper. For instance, the blankets a few years back were of higher quality than the ones they give out now. And often there are fewer available.

The food situation has cost the A’s money. We used to eat ballpark food a third to half the time we attended. Now it’s really rare, and only on days when the lines are short at the Westside Club, and unless you know enough to go to the up there, there’s no decent food anywhere else. The kiosk with the pastrami sandwiches, the Subway-type turkey sandwiches, the chinese chicken salad and taco salad is gone. The good barbecue place is gone. The good iced tea/latte place is gone. While the Giants appeal to all types over at AT&T Park, with crab sandwiches, wine bars, and sushi, as well as the usual mix of burgers, fries and franks; over at the Coliseum they assume everyone who attends shops at Wal-Mart. And it’s worse: at the Westside Club, they’ve eliminated the salmon burgers from the menu, replacing them with fried fish tacos.

And then there’s poor Tara, filling in the gaps between innings offering prizes like stale Aerosmith CDs and tickets to the Alameda County Fair as gifts. I mean, you find people in the audience and the best you can offer them IF THEY WIN is a free ice cream sandwich? Talk about cheap. It wouldn’t surprise me if she said, walking in the door before a game, “What crap are you going to give me today? I mean, a Metallica CD? Really???”

by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps all those concessions are gone because people didn't buy them?

I mean, the last thing I am thinking about going to eat when I go to a ballgame is a damn crab sandwich or a chinese chicken salad.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
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by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

But it could be

And it’s not like there aren’t enough franks stands. Or that they couldn’t add a smattering of things that real people eat.

by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, of course.

I’m tired of choosing between a sausage, nachos or chicken strips for the most part.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

and really, the nachos are fucking disgusting now

and HOW CAN YOU SCREW UP NACHOS? HONESTLY?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yea. I think the first couple bites are good,

but it goes downhill in a hurry. Stale chips, mostly. It’s hard to hide that taste when the cheese gets cold.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

stale chips, gross cheese, questionable chicken type meat product, etc.

basically since Aramark took over the food has gotten absolutely disgusting

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

And they have no sense of urgency when serving.

S-L-O-W. It’d be one thing if they were all bustling like bees behind the counter and it was still busy. But they’re not.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

that is a total aramark thing.

it is infuriating at the arena as well.

When I went to arco arena the maloof foodservice staff was super quick, everything was well-staffed, and they had way more choices.

by Billy Frijoles on Jul 12, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Last time I had them they were good

Me and my sister were remarking how much better and cheaper they were than the Warriors nachos…

by Billy Frijoles on Jul 12, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

i've been to one warriors game

the food looked gross and was hella expensive.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

the nachos used to be delicious back in the day

Now… last time I went. Bleh.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's easy to screw up nachos.

The clear divide between good nachos and shit nachos is whether they use actual cheese or they use that fake cheese-like goop that pumps out of a tank like industrial soap.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

but even when the cheese like goop is hot, it's good.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just like orange axle grease

i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72

by Tutu-late on Jul 12, 2011 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

...with artificial cheddar flavoring added

i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72

by Tutu-late on Jul 12, 2011 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's Aramark

They could screw up ice water.

"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King

by YonYonson on Jul 12, 2011 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

They do more to make the ballpark

a miserable experience than anyone else.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 12, 2011 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes and what really pisses me off about it is that when I went to Philly a couple of weeks ago to see the A's...

Aramark is also the concession company at Citizens bank Ballpark. All of there employees are in nice looking uniforms the long lines move fast and efficient, the food is good, the signage at the stands is nice, they stands are well lit…They just do not care at the Coliseum.

If Aramark cared at all here they could do some very small things to make it better. I am guessing that because our attendance is so low that this venue is a very low priority for them. If the A’s or the Coliseum Authority, or whoever decides what concession company to use called Aramark tomorrow and said, “we are going with a new company for concessions, you need to pack your shit and leave”, they would be out of there so quick and wouldn’t even fight to keep it…

There is no A in OFFENSE!!

by wacchampions on Jul 13, 2011 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not from what I saw

The line was really, really long at the concession with the good food. Much longer than the lines at the current Mexican Crap one that replaced it. Sometimes the line was so long that I went over to the Everett & Jones line (and the one that replaced it, now gone as well) and bought there. But that line was usually too long.

The latte/iced tea concession was usually open, but the person behind that counter would move over to the sandwiches/salad counter if there was nobody in that line.

Seriously, it was extremely successful, far more so than the fried chicken turds next door, at least in terms of lines and people.

by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2011 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

And...

The waiter at the Westside Club said that there’ve been lots of complaints about the loss of salmon burgers. It’s not just me.

I’m really amazed I’m seeing people here defending a policy of rotten food and bad service.

by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not defending anything..

I’m thinking out loud, since I highly doubt that the concession stands you mentioned were closed down because Lew hates Oakland.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

I don't feel that I'm feeling your feelings, about these feelings that you feel.

by doctorK on Jul 12, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think Lew Wolff hates Oakland

But it does seem as if the budget is dropping on a year to year basis at the Coliiseum. Cheaper food, cheaper giveaways, fewer giveaways, no budget for Kara’s gifts, etc.

Granted, what really pulls people into the stands is a winning team, but a great stadium experience is also important. I’m sure Cisco Field would’ve had much better food.

by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

This.

and, I gotta say, they do a pretty good job with the stadium experience

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

That sounds great

Have to say, I’ve met some really nice A’s employees. The problem is definitely not at that end, and Kara goes out of her way to talk with kids whenever she sees them, whether they’re on camera or not.

by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2011 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

An Aerosmith CD?

It was probably lying under some rubble in someone’s office, unopened. Seriously, an Aerosmith CD. And on another occasion, ice cream (the kids lost, and Kara still gave them the ice cream).

And remember the days when you got a coupon for free soft drinks if the team scored seven runs? Not this year. The home run pizzas? I don’t remember if they still have them or not.

by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2011 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait, you can't possibly be complaining that they gave a kid ice cream?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, I'm not

But it seemed such an odd “gift.” As Flashfire points out, all the freebies come from sponsorships, which apparently have dried up - which could well mean a smaller budget to find them.

It’s also possible that with the recession, fewer sponsors will give out freebies. There is that.

by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2011 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah but like... giving a kid an ice cream

that would be BAD ASS if I was a kid at a game. Free ice cream!

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is a awesome gift

My nine year old self would love that! Hell, my twenty-seven year old self would love that!

by asyouwish33 on Jul 12, 2011 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

After careful consideration, fixed:
yeah but like… giving a kid an ice cream
that would be BAD ASS if I was a kid at a game. Free ice cream!

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Are you sure it was Aerosmith?

It wasn’t U2, who had a concert at the Coliseum?

Aerosmith hasn’t had an album out in awhile, so unless it was this, it doesn’t make sense.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was at the game, it was Aerosmith but I think it might've been a dvd

although I think that has a lot to do with the fact that they play “Dream On” before the 9th every game.

by Billy Frijoles on Jul 12, 2011 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

How appropriate...

Do the A’s have enough offense to come back and win this one?

Dream On!

by AsFan72 on Jul 12, 2011 6:42 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Whoa...we had salad at the O.Co? Ever?

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Jul 12, 2011 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

We have salads now

Inside the West Side Club, on the right-hand side if you were looking into the club from the stands. Although it’s inside the club, they package them to go and you can take them anywhere. They have a few standard salads but will customize at no charge, if you want to put garbanzo beans into your Caesar salad.
But there used to be a salad and baked potato place on field level, next to Round Table.

M-A, M-A-R, M-A-R-K, Ell-is!

by Englishmajor on Jul 12, 2011 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Garbanzo beans in your Caesar salad? Blasphemy.

The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. —Joe Posnanski 8/29/09

by pam5981 on Jul 12, 2011 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mostly weekends, I think.

And maybe week day games when they actually sell enough tickets to warrant opening it up.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

The salad & baked potato place

Is the place that had the Taco Salads, the Chinese Chicken Salad, the hot pastrami sandwiches, the turkey sandwiches ….

Now the only place, and I mean the ONLY place, to get a decent sandwich is in the Westside Club, off to the side.

by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2011 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's the whole package when talking about the top tier FA's

They want a long term deal, a lot of money, some where they think will win and atmosphere.

It ‘s obvious the A’s can not bid top dollar with their current revnue, FA’s also know the A’s want to relocate (it really does not lend itself to buying house and relocating the family), the A’s even if the could convince 1 top tier FA to come are not going to put the All Star team that garuntees the playoffs year end year out on the field and the coliseum has no atmosphere the A’s have upset Oakland, the City is not putting a dime into the place without a commitment and the A’s are not giving that commitment.

Personally I think that Bud might be looking to throw contraction and/or re divisioning on the table at the next bargaining talks. The A’s being one of the top prospects. He gives his buddy Wolfe the Dodger franchise, baseball buys out / Wolfe kicks in some and then they contract the A’s and Marlins. (or at least bluff this) I also believe that alll the studies that have been done indicate that the Bay area is suitable for 1.5 teams and that keeping the A’s around is not in the best of baseball. The players will fight the loss of 60+ jobs and it might be a huge chip to play. But they will not find a place and new park until that hand is played.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Jul 12, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

probably more than 60 plus jobs

all the people on the DL and the minor leaguers bouncing up and down

by heartstopper on Jul 12, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Facilities = attendance

We have heard in the discussion of Furcal and others that players do not wish to come to Oakland because of the “facilities.” Beane and Wolff are continue to point to this factor as a deterrent for the attraction of free agents. I wonder if they are being too polite to the fan base? That they are reluctant to share a further consideration for top athletes choosing their preferred destination for free agency? Isn’t it also the case that players enjoy playing in front of large, enthusiastic crowds? Might this not be a factor in the desire of a Berkman to play in St. Louis? Or the disappointment of a Holliday who ended up in Oakland via trade – and also signed long term in St. Louis?

If this is indeed the case, then various calls for boycotting the Coliseum to punish Wolff and Beane can only serve the cause of moving the A’s out of Oakland. By punishing ownership, we punish ourselves, to the degree we are committed to the A’s as an Oakland franchise. Oakland and Northern California are wonderful places to live, and I for one would choose Oakland in a heartbeat over St. Louis, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Denver, or a host of other destinations. However, an empty stadium does not help Wolff or Beane sell free agency to the top tier players.

by rickeyruns on Jul 12, 2011 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

By not going to the game, we punish ourselves.

Also, by going to the game, we punish ourselves.

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 12, 2011 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

As I learned from Bart Simpson many years ago,

“You’re damned if you do, and you’re damned if you don’t.”

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tweet just now from the national baseball writer for the New York Times

Tyler Kepner:

As well as baseball is doing, MLB clearly has no idea what to do with the Oakland A’s. No timetable for resolution, nowhere to go.

by Glorious Mundy on Jul 12, 2011 11:32 AM PDT reply actions  

agreed

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jul 12, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

sigh.

the grim realities of this post make me very sad. I have been a NRAF my whole life, with my first opportunity to move to the Bay this year. To have my excitement of going to the park dashed by the current state of affairs makes me a sad, sad panda.
good post, Blez, think you got it right. and for all those pestering MLB to speak up, I hope you continue!

jaggin around

by oakinboston on Jul 12, 2011 11:41 AM PDT reply actions  

Sorry for the tweet barrage, but this is interesting


John Shea
:

I asked Selig if contraction is on the table. He said no. Giants bummed.

by Glorious Mundy on Jul 12, 2011 11:49 AM PDT reply actions  

Exactly

That is the Giants supervillain endgame

by DrDoom on Jul 12, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

What a way to go. Start the laser at my head please.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Jul 12, 2011 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep

No one in baseball or the media has seriously considered contraction as possibility at least within the scope of the next CBA.

by vertig0 on Jul 12, 2011 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ugh.

This is what infuriates me when Giants fans get all offended at being anti-Giant – they always – say I don’t root for the A’s to lose. Yeah – the A’s aren’t trying to kill your team! The Giants are! Then, they say a joke, like, well, Portand wouldn’t be too bad for the A’s. Fuck you! If it wasn’t for the A’s and the territorial rights it might be the Tampa Bay Giants. Just pisses me off.

by longtimeasfan on Jul 12, 2011 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

If this is, in any way, a sentiment Shea witnessed by actual members of the SF Giants organization

Then they are a bunch of classless, privileged pricks who never deserve to win another championship for a very long time.
I believe firmly in sports karma. Therefore, I don’t think the city of Vancouver will get a Stanley Cup for a very long time. Let’s add the Giants to that list now…

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 13, 2011 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am not too familiar on this whole situation...

but with the CBA expiring and all the discussion of realignment swirling around, is it possible MLB has just been waiting for these CBA negotiations in order to finally make a decision?

by SneakyBacon on Jul 12, 2011 11:54 AM PDT reply actions  

It's possible they're waiting for the CBA, but I think that only matters if they want contraction or realignment as leverage.

Bud said in his ASG Q&A that realignment talk was premature, but who knows how far out he means. I highly doubt he’d be serious at all regarding contraction. I don’t think he would want that tarnish on his record, especially he was the guy on watch when they expanded. It would basically be saying that the expansion was at least partially a mistake.

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Add to Tweet barrage

This would be good.

@BizballMaury
Maury Brown
Sandy Alderson #NextMLBCommish #Prediction
13 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 11:59 AM PDT reply actions  

First order of business: Correct my rather large mistake from before

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 12, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seeing "Alderson" and "Commissioner" together

makes me think of 1031 exchanges. I guess that means I should get back to work….

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think an organized protest with banners is in order

Take a page out of the soccer fan book and make some large anti-Selig banners to string up at home games. I mean BIG. Even if they’re only up for a few minutes before security interferes, the photos will spread around the internet and sports media like wildfire. See the example of the Liverpool fan protest against their ex-ownership group last year:

Getting angry on athleticsnation isn’t going to change anything. We need to channel the anger into doing an organized protest.

Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.

by johnjahafanclub on Jul 12, 2011 12:38 PM PDT reply actions  

sorry, here is the photo

Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.

by johnjahafanclub on Jul 12, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Those kind of banners are already up

Not so much about Selig, true, although I think that one says something like “One Down and Three to Go: Geren, Beane, Wolff, Selig”. But the anti-Wolff banners have failed to shame him into selling the team.

M-A, M-A-R, M-A-R-K, Ell-is!

by Englishmajor on Jul 12, 2011 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

You have an uphill battle on that last part

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not really

The enemy right now is Selig and that greedy pig Neukom. Not Beane and Wolff. The banners need to be bigger and more attention-grabbing, the protest needs to be organized, the number of fans participating need to be large. Sending Bud Selig a bunch of e-mails is very easy to ignore. It’s hard to ignore when there’s giant banners draped along the outfield wall of the colliseum being reprinted across the sports media; or if a bunch of A’s fans demonstrated outside AT&T Park on the sidewalk and exercised their free speech rights with a bunch of banners depicting Neukom and Selig as pigs. Baseball fans tend to be so passive but this is the time when we need to go scorched earth and burn the suckers down.

See the Milan Ultras protest last year:

http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/blog/dirty-tackle/post/Thousands-of-AC-Milan-ultras-protest-lack-of-spe?urn=sow-257408

Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.

by johnjahafanclub on Jul 12, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

gonna take more than a couple.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Honestly That Might be Possible

I am a member of the 1906 Ultras and about half of us are A’s fans. We are not averse to getting involved in other sports leagues as we have gone as a group to Sharks and WPS games in the past.

http://www.1906ultras.com/

Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.

by johnjahafanclub on Jul 12, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I respect the casbah

but they are a more “family-friendly” group. The idea behind doing an anti-selig and anti-neukom protest is that it would need to be decidedly non-family-friendly.

Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.

by johnjahafanclub on Jul 12, 2011 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, of course.

Not everyone can be a soccer hooligan. :)

by LoneStranger on Jul 12, 2011 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was there

I sat among the Ultras for the match at Stanford. Fantastic experience even though I didn’t know the songs.

by vertig0 on Jul 12, 2011 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I actually like Beane, but

that’s a hella funny banner.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not just the condition of the clubhouse "Facilities"

It’s that the Coliseum is cavernous, hitter-unfriendly, and cold for much of the season. Hitters know their numbers will go down playing in Oakland. Down numbers = less $$$ down the road. You’ll notice pitchers have no problem being on the A’s. But hitters have a very good reason to avoid playing in the Coliseum. Add to that the lack of fans/energy, and then yes, the conditions of the clubhouse, and overall you have an undesirable place to come to work most days.

by J Canseco on Jul 12, 2011 1:11 PM PDT reply actions  

Call and email Bud Light

Get the word out. Numbers speak volumes. This weasel needs to actually make a decision. Tyler is so right; it is unfair to us! Here is the idiot’s contact info:
bud.selig@mlb.com, 212-931-7800

by Richard De on Jul 12, 2011 2:18 PM PDT reply actions  

A day late and a fistful of dollars short...

What a sordid mess. Such treatement for one of the American League’s original teams, and one of baseball’s most storied franchises. I don’t get it.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 12, 2011 2:35 PM PDT reply actions  

That last line is awesome.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jul 12, 2011 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I dunno if snark is a real word, or what it's definition is.

To me, snark is being a snobbish dick. This was just straight spouting knowledge and rubbing it in, in a totally and completely necessary way.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jul 13, 2011 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rec'd! Fuck that shithead Selig he can go kick rocks!

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Jul 12, 2011 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

da truth!
If anything, their popularity in the Bay Area is at an all-time high and, in part, it’s coming at the expense of the A’s because of the limbo you’ve helped place them in.

by Kallus on Jul 12, 2011 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is really well written man

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 13, 2011 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is my letter to Selig:

Dear Mr Selig,

I’m writing to ask you to expedite the decision on a new stadium for the A’s.

We all know that the Oakland Coliseum is not a modern facility
suitable for a MLB team. The team is suffering trying to attract free
agents and fans to come to the stadium. Without a modern facility,
team performance will continue to decline, along with game attendance,
the team may eventually die. I am an A’s fan 1st, baseball fan 2nd. If
I can not be an A’s fan, I will not be a baseball fan at all.

MLB has been working on a new stadium plan for years, and still there
is no sign of progress, no details, no path to move forward. Please do
something for real for a new A’s stadium, or risk losing one of the
oldest, most storied franchise in MLB history, and some of the most
loyal baseball fans along with it, I hope you wouldn’t want that on
your legacy as Commissioner.

Regards,

by asfansince1989 on Jul 12, 2011 3:32 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

mail bounced :(

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

    bud.selig@mlb.com

Technical details of permanent failure:
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 550 550 #5.1.0 Address rejected bud.selig@mlb.com (state 14).

by asfansince1989 on Jul 12, 2011 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I believe it's allan.selig@mlb.com

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 12, 2011 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks, Bud.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jul 12, 2011 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

More on the latest lack of a real answer from Selig
Q. What is the latest on the possible relocation to San Jose for the A’s franchise?

COMMISSIONER SELIG: Well, the latest is, I have a small committee who has really assessed that whole situation, Oakland, San Francisco, and it is complex. You talk about complex situations; they have done a terrific job. I know there are some people who think it’s taken too long and I understand that. I’m willing to accept that. But you make decisions like this; I’ve always said, you’d better be careful. Better to get it done right than to get it done fast. But we’ll make a decision that’s based on logic and reason at the proper time.

Q. And this is an issue that’s been almost a tradition now to look into, and you guys have carried that on year after year.

COMMISSIONER SELIG: We have.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110711&content_id=21744492&vkey=allstar2011

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Jul 12, 2011 4:08 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Way to not even answer the goddamn question, asshat.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 12, 2011 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

That seemed to be the pattern throughout his whole effing chat session

Why the hell would he have it if it does nothing at all.

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 13, 2011 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fuck Bud Selig

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

http://www.domingobeisbol.com/

by hero66 on Jul 12, 2011 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lol he used a lot of words to say nothing.

Quit the hyperbole Bud!

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Jul 12, 2011 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder if he ran his car dealerships the same way

Customer: “So what special features does this car have?”

Bud: “Well, this car, like all others, has an engine. We’ve even got four tires. If you look under the hood, you will see a bunch of stuff.”

"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King

by YonYonson on Jul 12, 2011 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

"You're interested in this car?

I’ve formed a committee to explore selling it to you. We’ll let you know…"

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 13, 2011 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Two years later, the customer would end up buying the new Prius at the lot across the street

"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King

by YonYonson on Jul 13, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

I spent some time with a customer piecing together the specs of a system that met his needs

back when I worked at the little mom & pop computer store. He left with a sheet of paper to think it over. He came back a couple weeks later to tell me about the great deal he got at Best Buy or whatever store it was.

I denied him a return on opened software a couple weeks later, even though I could have done it no problem. He was mad and threatened to walk out with another customer’s computer that was sitting on the counter. I told him I’d call the police. He wasn’t happy, but he left. I smiled.

by LoneStranger on Jul 13, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I appreciate both this post and the one on Facebook because as a casual A’s fan , they have really opened my eyes to the issues befalling this team since I get no press of it anywhere else really.

Rec’d

"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais

by MichaelClutchtree on Jul 12, 2011 5:21 PM PDT reply actions  

A couple things

First, it is sad to watch an A’s home game this season; either at the ballpark or in front of the television screen. What about 10,000 loyal fans there? Is that it? I really cannot blame the fan base for this either. It is the structure of the league and the ineptitude of the ownership group that has alienated this fan base.

The Bay Area is a market that is big enough for both the A’s and Giants. This was proven during the late 80s and early 90’s as well as when the A’s we contending a few years back. We live in a great sports market. How else would the Golden State Warriors be one of the greatest venues to watch an NBA game?

We need an ownership group committed to winnings, building a stadium and changing the atmosphere. Currently we do not have that.

Additionally, we need MLB to attempt to build some sort of equality among the teams. I am not talking about a hard salary cap or anything like that. Instead, build competitive balance around the league so that teams like the Twins, Pirates and Athletics can contend more consistently. Oakland had a nice run a few years back and the Twins run seems to have come to an end. You cannot have a small market team build a consistent contender when the economic structure of baseball is the way it is today.

The NFL has built that type of competitive balance. A league that has enabled the Green Bay Packers the same opportunity to contend as the New York Giants.

Right now there is not a level playing field in MLB, and if anyone wants to argue against that they would be foolhardy.

Mila "Sweet Lips" Kunis, as stated by Scarlett Johansson. I couldn't agree more. Reverse would be true too!!!!

by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 12, 2011 6:34 PM PDT reply actions  

Lew Wolff and John Fisher

bought the team for 180 million 6 years ago, now its valued at 304 million by Forbes. The A’s losing isn’t Bud Selig’s fault, Selig put the system in place that allows his frat buddy to make a lot of equity even though the franchise is struggling.

The A’s have one of the leagues best pitching staff’s and they built it, now the A’s are going to have to do the same for the hitting.

The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler

by Jessse on Jul 12, 2011 6:46 PM PDT reply actions  

Not through the farm system

Brett Anderson and Gio Gonzalez were both acquired via trades. They were not originally drafted by the A’s.

The A’s losing isn’t Bud Selig’s fault, Selig put the system in place that allows his frat buddy to make a lot of equity even though the franchise is struggling.

By your own words, how is that not Selig’s fault? Or were you being a bit sarcastic?

Mila "Sweet Lips" Kunis, as stated by Scarlett Johansson. I couldn't agree more. Reverse would be true too!!!!

by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 12, 2011 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

even in the worst of times you can do well financially

thats what I’m saying. Lew is doing just fine. We’re the ones hurting because the A’s are not handling their rebuild right. I could give a rats ass about a ballpark. I just want to watch good baseball.

The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler

by Jessse on Jul 12, 2011 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Doesn't a ballpark enhance the chances of good basebell?

Either way, I don’t disagree with you on the premise

Mila "Sweet Lips" Kunis, as stated by Scarlett Johansson. I couldn't agree more. Reverse would be true too!!!!

by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 12, 2011 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't believe a new park enhances anything other than Wolff and Fishers profits

You see, the San Diego Padres played in Jack Murphy stadium and Padre fans never had to worry about Tony Gwynn returning the next year, and they never had to worry about Trevor Hoffman returning. Then they moved into a nice ballpark in downtown San Diego a city of 1.3 million people and now they cant keep A-Gon or T-Bell and I find that extremely odd.

The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler

by Jessse on Jul 12, 2011 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

You are right to some extent

but, the market in San Diego is much different than the Bay Area. Which, brings me right back to the economic structure of MLB compared to that of the NFL etc…

Mila "Sweet Lips" Kunis, as stated by Scarlett Johansson. I couldn't agree more. Reverse would be true too!!!!

by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 12, 2011 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why the Padres still have trouble drawing fans is one of the craziest phenemonons in the world to me

In my opinion, it is a far and away better park than Phone Booth Arena/Who Gives a Shit Park.

"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico

by stranahanahan on Jul 13, 2011 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because there's a lot of cool shit to do in San Diego?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Jul 13, 2011 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

And San Diego fans are super fickle

Unless they’re winning every year, they won’t go to games.

"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King

by YonYonson on Jul 14, 2011 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

So, KROD to the Brewers

for 2 PTBNL……Apparently not until September! HAHA! Let the games begin!!!

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jul 12, 2011 11:57 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm not gonna pretend like I know what the commisioners day to day duties are.

But….what the fuck needs to be dealt with in baseball? I can’t remember the last time Bud did anything productive, or ya know, anything other than making stupid rules for a stupid exhibition game. DO SOMETHING. The A’s are a storied franchise, and aren’t in the best place right now. But you know what? The Giants had a horrific playoff drought too. And look where they are now. If Bud did anything, literally anything for us, we really wouldn’t be in that bad a spot.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jul 13, 2011 12:35 AM PDT reply actions  

A DLD?

Yes!

http://www.athleticsnation.com/2011/7/13/2274022/this-is-a-dld-sort-of-day-7-13-2011

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jul 13, 2011 9:34 AM PDT reply actions  

MLB Is An Anti-Trust Cover For The Giants

If the Giants declared their intent… to take away the A’s broadcast and marketing territories… they’d face an anti-trust lawsuit. By hiding behind this MLB committee that will never recommend anything, the Giants are effectively immune from prosecution for colluding with MLB to prevent the A’s from staying in the Bay Area because they can hide behind MLB’s Congressional anti-trust exemption. When will the committee be dissolved? When another franchise is at a similar dead end… so both can be contracted… or the A’s can be relocated elsewhere.

Before Comcast Sports Net re-centered CSN California, which had been a Sacto-centered network, to also include the Bay Area and split the Giants and A’s, their TV contract with the Giants had pending clauses that (if they’d gone into effect) would have been flagrant anti-trust violations.

For example, the alternation between Giants and A’s games on CSN Plus would have ended in the whole Bay Area… including the A’s own broadcast territory of Alameda and Contra Costa counties… with the Giants always getting CSN Bay Area and the A’s always getting CSN Plus. On systems with only room for one HD channel, the Giants would always be on HD and the A’s would never be on HD.

by muscatel on Jul 15, 2011 1:43 PM PDT reply actions  

Forgive my ignorance here

but I have read the MLB constitution and I don’t really understand what the purpose of the assigned “territories” are in the first place. They are not TV market territories, they don’t seem to prevent marketing the team outside of their territory. It only relates to “operating” whatever that is. This relates only to where the team plays their home games? The Giants aren’t even playing their home games in Santa Clara county…so how on earth do they even justify saying that their “business model” relies on having that county as theirs? Especially when both teams, I presume, are allowed to show games on TV and market themselves in that county even when neither team plays there. The only point that the Giants can make about that territory being essential to their business plan is that it prevents the A’s from playing there. THE ONLY REASON! Right? Am I missing something important here?

by juanmiguel on Aug 4, 2011 9:54 AM PDT reply actions  

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