A's Run Losing Streak to 8 in Usual Fashion
What does decent pitching and no offense get you? A 4-0 shutout. And this time, there's no strength of schedule excuse.
No, the pitching wasn't creamed by Alex Rodriguez and Co., and the offense wasn't shut out by Clay Buchholz...this is Chris Jakubauskas. Roster filler in every sense of the word. A career 5.59 ERA. 5.25 FIP. I could go on and on. Jakubauskas threw 80 pitches in 5 innings, striking out 5 and walking 1, allowing only 3 hits. You know, like a good #3 would. Not exactly the work of someone who has a career -0.3 WAR. The only reason he didn't pitch longer was that Cliff Pennington lined a ball off of his ankle, and he was taken out of the game for the next inning, presumably for precautionary reasons.
Now, granted, the A's are on their 8th starting pitcher (going on 9, with Brett Anderson going on the disabled list), and no team can survive that many injured pitchers, but this game wasn't the fault of fill-in Guillermo Moscoso. Again, he pitched decently, striking out 2 and walking 1 in 5 innings. The only dings on his performance were two solo home runs, one coming from the bat of J.J. Hardy, the first Oriole to step into the box. What a way to start the day.
Really, the only bright spot in the game was the major league debut of A's top prospect 2B Jemile Weeks, who...went 0 for 4. Oh. Of course.
Luke Scott hit another mammoth solo HR in the 5th, and the Orioles notched another run in the 6th and 7th innings, but this game was well over by then. If an offense is going to get shutout by Chris Jakubauskas, there's really no hope for the rest of the game, is there?
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It's time for REGIME CHANGE!
Geren has GOT TO GO! So does Wolff for that matter! Sell the team to someone that CARES Lew, you troglodyte !
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
Fork
meet A’s 2011 season
I’ve been overwhelmed and I’ve been underwhelmed. Can I ever just be whelmed?
by closetasfan on Jun 7, 2011 6:58 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Fire Geren Now!!!
DFA Matsui Now!!!
Trade DeJesus Now!!!
"Mount it? I already did. Oh! You meant on the wall?!!
no, that's when we sign Bobby Crosby.
by Billy Frijoles on Jun 7, 2011 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Damn, that was funny !!
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
and again
no.
It was may, a few years ago
8 game losing streak,
one win,
another 8 game losing streak.
I said this on 95.7 FM's FB status about today's garbage
I say they get a cardboard cutout of Geren and make him go home. For a week, the cutout is manager. If things improve, fire the real Geren. If things don’t improve, fire the real Geren.
by Johnny Bravo on Jun 7, 2011 7:05 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't want to hear about SSS
DFA Weeks! He put up an 0-fer, so he must stink!
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Giving up two bombs doesn't qualify as decent in my book.
but hey I wanted to blow the team up two years ago.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:08 PM PDT reply actions
1 walk
going 5 innings after pitching ion 2 games over the weekend?
that’s decent in my book
Put a bird on it
Better than expected yes but its not really kind on the FIP
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions
If FIP isn't smart enough to count solo homers
FIP is stupid.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I think those tossing stones shouldn't live in glass houses.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions
You're the biggest stone tosser on this site.
And that’s a flag for calling me stupid.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jun 7, 2011 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
please quote to me where I called you stupid.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I tossed a stone at FIP for being stupid.
You said I was living in a glass house for doing so. Therefore, you called me stupid. Or do you lack the courage to own your actions?
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Well in that case wouldn't you calling me "the biggest stone tosser" also be flag worthy?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions
No.
I did not imply you lived in a glass house. I noted that you throw lots of stones at things, which I can’t possibly see how any human would argue with.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Oh so you lack the courage of your actions.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Hardly.
If I felt like insulting you, I would, and I would own it. History backs me up on this topic.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Youre separating the metaphor, but youre not running away from it…… LOL what a crock of shit.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I speak English, I can't help it.
For a debater, you’re not very good at logic.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
This is you

Just because you assert something doesn’t make it true.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, so you're calling me a liar instead, but don't have the balls to do that directly, either?
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Fine with me.
I hope the fact that I was called stupid will not be ignored by the site’s moderators. That’s my last word on the topic.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Pitchers certainly do pitch differently when the bases are empty, and/or when they have a lead.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Regardless of how they pitch allowing HRs only in bases empty situations isn't a skill
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I understand that a pitcher can't limit homers allowed to specific situations.
But there are certain situations where a pitcher’s best interests are served by throwing the ball over the plate, because the consequences are less drastic if the hitter beats him. I also realize this would not be easy to measure, and may well be impossible to measure. Even if it was possible to measure, I can’t imagine it would have much significance at all.
That said, there’s nothing wrong with looking at the results achieved under specific circumstances and being happy with them.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I think there was a study on it for Tom Glavine which showed that he did
BB more with RISP and give up more hits with bases empty with fewer BB.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 7, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I've seen Pedro Martinez and Curt Schilling do it.
Allow themselves to get beat when they could afford it, but refuse to give in when they can’t. It would require a lot of effort to research, but it could be that you have to be a really special kind of pitcher to do it—I can’t tell if that’s what citing Glavine, Pedro, and Schilling means, or if it’s just easy to think of them because they’re memorable.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
"Ive seen" is the start of terrible research.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I've seen you ruin many a good thread
by RLangford on Jun 7, 2011 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Besides which, the statement isn't true.
The vast majority of important scientific findings had their genesis in something someone observed. Bad research is refusing to accept that what you ultimately find may not match what you originally observed.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Yes, there is some skill in "clutch pitching"
One of the old BPro annuals said the skill altered their ERA projections by up to half a run for some pitchers. Rueter and Glavine are generally cited as the poster boys, though I think Reuter’s beating his FIP was probably at least as much due to defense (especially his own) and controlling the running game as clutch pitching.
All pitchers give up more walks and fewer home runs with runners on base. But Glavine’s HR split is pretty ridiculous.
There’s no reason to think Moscoso has such a skill, but there does seem to be some variation in controlling the timing of events among major league pitchers.
by Danny on Jun 8, 2011 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought they did blowup the team halfway through 2009.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Hmmm I must of missed where they traded Suzuki, Bailey, Wuertz, Breslow, etc.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions
No, but they did dump Giambi...
and traded Holliday, and OC for prospects.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Thats not really blowing up the team.
I was referring to last calendar year, two seasons ago, however.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you even have a back left
or have you patted it into oblivion?
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I really hope we can parlay this suck into a top 5 pick
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:10 PM PDT reply actions
Lets be honest. Wed Spangberger a top pick anyway.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Probably not, but we'd probably Hultzen it
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 7, 2011 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I like him better than most do... so thats not that bad. Bryan Burllington?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
We're not that bad
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 7, 2011 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks for keeping the recap short and sour
This team doesn’t deserve much copy at this point. I sympathize with slusser, stiglich and lee at this point.
The last two games have been especially pathetic. I don’t know how any excuses can be made to protect geren’s job at this point. Sure, the starting rotation is down 3 or 4 men, but with the exception of outman’s last performance, the fil-ins have been fine. The bullpen has a healthy Bailey and Devine and the rest who looked good earlier this year and in previous years. The lineup has remained healthy for the most part.
It’s gotta come down to the management and coaching staff. They are getting nothing out of the talent they do have at their disposal.
But hey, Scott Sizemore looks serviceable!
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jun 7, 2011 7:12 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for keeping the recap short and sour
This team doesn’t deserve much copy at this point. I sympathize with slusser, stiglich and lee at this point.
The last two games have been especially pathetic. I don’t know how any excuses can be made to protect geren’s job at this point. Sure, the starting rotation is down 3 or 4 men, but with the exception of outman’s last performance, the fil-ins have been fine. The bullpen has a healthy Bailey and Devine and the rest who looked good earlier this year and in previous years. The lineup has remained healthy for the most part.
It’s gotta come down to the management and coaching staff. They are getting nothing out of the talent they do have at their disposal.
But hey, Scott Sizemore looks serviceable!
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jun 7, 2011 7:12 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I love how Geren decides to use our starting pitcher for Friday's game
Cramer was rumored to be starting in place of Anderson, who went on the D.L. today. Geren must be looking forward to a loss on Friday.
"Mount it? I already did. Oh! You meant on the wall?!!
If Geren thinks Matsui is gonna come out of this slump
he will probably bat him lead off tomorrow to get him extra at bats.
Ooops, I sure hope Geren doesn’t read this and think that’s a great idea
"Mount it? I already did. Oh! You meant on the wall?!!
Really does anyone think that firing Geren makes this team better at all?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:26 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Their 8 games under 500 and their 7.5 out.
You really think that it makes a difference.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions
In terms of this season, no.
In preparation for 2012, yes. It could set a level of expectations for the players.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Guess what.... theyre going to be shitty next year.
Who are they going to have play the OF? If theyre lucky the same guys. Who is going to play the INF? Anyone that even projects to be league average besides Barton? Who is going to pitch? Cahill Gio and…. Cahill and Gio and… Cahill and Gio and….?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I wish Smoking the Refer could pitch. We could trade its last eigth of the season for 35m buck
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions
What is your answer, then?
How do you want the team “blown up?”
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Trade Suzuki Pennington Willingham DDJ Coco Cahill Fuentes Wuertz Ziggy and Gio .
Wait for Bailey Anderson Breslow Carter to get healthy then trade them.
Trade Weeks before he breaks again.
Convert DLS to starting.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Suzuki Bos/TB Pennington TB/SF/CIN/STL Willingham DDJ TB/TX/PHL/ARZ Coco ATL plus those before Bullpen to TB/TX/PHL
for high upside low minors or AA specs
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions
This doesn't really address my question.
As some here often say, without specifics, this is just a rant. Who are these “…high upside low minors or AA specs”
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Thats not a realistic question to be answered all willy nilly.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I'll do it all willy nilly
Suzuki to Boston for Garin Cecchini, Sean Coyle and Henry Ramos
Pennington to San Francisco for Jarrett Parker and Heath Hembree
Willingham to Atlanta for Andrelton Simmons, Steven Kent and Christian Bethancourt
Crisp to Texas for Luis Sardinas and Roman Mendez
Bailey and Fuentes to Tampa Bay for Joe Cruz, Schott Shuman and Braulio Lara
Gio to Yankees for Dellin Betances and Manny Banuelos
Cahill to Cincinnati for Yonder Alonso, Yasmani Grandal and Todd Frazier
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
andrelton? sweet name. braulio, yonder and yasmani are pretty nice too.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Id want different players just spitballing
Suzuki Cecchini Inglesias
Pennington to SF for Wheeler
Willingham to ATL for Salcedo + Dimaster Delgado maybe? I don’t think you get as much as you wrote.
Gio to Yankees for Sanchez Banuelos Melky Mesa
Cahill to Cincy for Grandal Yormond Rodriguez Lotzkar and a B spec somewhere.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd do the first two yesterday
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
What's up with Lavernway froM Boston?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
I heard his defense is questionable. We seem like
a pitching and defense kind or organization to me.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Hits the crap out of the ball. Below average reciever. Good arm, Pop times under 2.
I think you can work with him on the recieving.
But if Im getting Grandal or Sanchez, I want other positions.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Kalish?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Hurt his shoulder. Also Id want lower level players
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
see below
That’s no more likely to get us to more wins than keeping the current core.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Our current team isn't going to win. Accept it.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Will it improve by blowing it up without a plan?
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
What are you talking about? There is a plan. High upside minor league talent at High A or AA
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Ok.
You would not accept your answer if our roles were reversed.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Look I cant go through a trade the entire team fanpost right here.
That shit takes like a week and 1k words per player per team
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
That's a plan fraught with potential failure
The Rays got lucky with their picks and so have the Royals, and it’s hard to know at high-A whether someone’s going to pan out or not. Yes, I know the current group isn’t going to win anything, but losing for awhile to gain another group that might also suck seems risky.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
That's how rebuilds work.
also the Rays didn’t get lucky. They are really, really smart.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
too bad their fans aren't.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't feel qualified to comment on that.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
They sucked for a long time and eventually some guys had to pan out
But you’re right; they’ve gotten smarter with Friedman in there.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd say they were smart AND lucky.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
And our current plan is fraught with?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
offensive failure, but being pitching rich
i.e., we have 2 or 3 good starters in Cahill, Gio, and Anderson. And one of McCarthy/Ross will work, and one of Outman/Moscoso/Godfrey will work, too. Say we traded for Kevin Slowey or something, and we still have a good rotation. Just seems a shame to let that go to waste.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Our positional future projects worse than this years bunch did.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
positional future?
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
i.e. our current crop of future position players
by Billy Frijoles on Jun 8, 2011 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
this is definitely true
I didn’t say we shouldn’t blow those guys up. I’m just not sure it’s a good idea to get rid of Cahill or Gio, unless we get a serious haul back.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude, that is giving up way too much
This team has barely got to play together, relatively speaking, and prospects that we would get back for any of our players may end up being total busts. Cahill, Gio, Braden, Ross, McCarthy and Anderson have shown that they can perform well when healthy and motivated. If we traded Cahill, Anderson and Gio then who would be in our starting rotation next year? Anderson may need TJ surgery but a lot of pitchers come back from that even better. Trading Carter and Weeks would not get us very much in return so there is absolutely no logical reason to trade them unless they are included in a package deal for a sure player.
by Rygoslinglover on Jun 7, 2011 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions
If they aren't performing because they aren't properly motivated we should trade them for sure.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Or... .or.... now hear me out on this...
we could get a manager who is better at motivating his players…..
It’s kinda shocking, I know.
you don't think playing for the chance at earning millions of dollars is motivation enough to ignore the manager
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe they don't think it matters much?
If the team is going to get blown up, they can play for a new contract then.
Money doesn’t always get people past the psychological effects of, you know… life.
For intellectuals, it might be.
For baseball players, who are often emotionally stunted compared to people who haven’t lived sheltered athlete lives and been pampered since youth, maybe not.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 7, 2011 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Eh Cahill had a full ride to dartmouth. I think hes smart enough.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sure his baseball skills had a lot to do with that full ride
Not claiming he’s dumb or anything either.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
Ivy League isn't allowed to give athletic scholarships.
He had a 4.36 GPA and pretty much earned that ticket, though I’m sure his strong extracurriculars helped him gain admission.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I've known people who would've not had a shot in hell of getting into Ivy League schools who did due to athletics.
It’s under the table, but it happens.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
They're private intsitutions -- they can admit basically whomever they want
and as long as the athletes in question don’t flunk themselves into academic ineligibility, it’s all good. They don’t give out athletic scholarships, but they’re essentially massive, untaxed investment funds with universities attached to them and can give non-athletic scholarships out whenever they want.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Sure, that makes sense.
Same applies to legacy admittees (will resist the CGV that’s hanging over the plate here.)
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
*shrugs*
I’m technically a legacy admit to an Ivy League-caliber school. I’d like to think I’d have gotten without it.
The truth is, tons of different people are admitted for tons of different reasons. Singling out athletes is as bad in spirit as singling out, say, a particular racial group.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
I'm probably dating myself here, but
4.36 GPA? When I was in school it only went up to 4.0. Did they change the scale?
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Honors and AP courses get a bonus.
So an A = 5, B = 4, etc. So if you took all honors classes, you could theoretically get a 5.0.
Generalize much?
First, being an athlete (or in this case more specifically a baseball player) and being an intellectual is not mutually exclusive, regardless which of the following definitions for intellectual you find more appealing:
in·tel·lec·tu·al/ˌintlˈekCHo͞oəl/ – a smart person who enjoys serious study and thought
in·tel·lec·tu·al/ˌintlˈekCHo͞oəl/ – An intellectual is a person who uses intelligence (thought and reason) and critical or analytical reasoning in either a professional or a personal capacity.
Intellectual is definitely not synonymous to someone whose daily routine does not involve any physical activity. In fact, I highly doubt that the average office fauna, including all their diplomas and degrees, shows any more intellect than professional athletes do.
Second, the idea that all the baseball players, or all the successful athletes in most any field, have lived sheltered athlete lives and been pampered since youth is rather preposterous.
Roughly one third of MLB players come from Latin American countries, most of which have a GDP per capita of one fifth of what USA has or lower. Can you really say with a straight face that Dominican youth is being pampered? I have seen kids in Cuba practice baseball without baseballs, because they couldn’t afford them. Even in their national baseball academy, the youth did the throwing motion drills with socks in their hands and had real baseballs only when throwing to the catcher.
But even if ignoring the players who come from poor countries, it is hard to see the logic how athletes have been pampered from their youth. I would even argue that the percentage of professional baseball players who have made it to the MLB because they have been pampered, helped by connections, family ties or personal wealth is lower than in most any other line of work.
Not every player is a bonus baby, first round draftee. In fact, only 6% of minor league players ever make it to the big leagues and life in minors is for sure at least as demanding as that what most of us do. Have a look at the PTBNL documentary if you haven’t already, it’s well worth the time.
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
by elcroata on Jun 8, 2011 4:45 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
I agree with you about the signings from Latin America,
but as for the American kids who grew up playing the game on expensive touring teams, and had parents who were able to pay thousands of dollars for their kids to receive coaching from ex-pros, and were gods on campus and stars at the game from the get-go, a lot of those guys are facing the biggest test in their lives dealing with the adversity that comes from making the major leagues, and all of a sudden, not being one of the best guys out there on the field.
I don’t feel sorry for them, compared to poor signees from Latin America or lower-round draft picks who play in the minor leagues for half a decade and never make decent money. However, guys who have been coddled and pampered from the beginning might not have the fire to succeed despite adversity that someone who came from nothing might have.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Dunno....
maybe some of the players fit this criteria. But I rather doubt it applies to very many of them. You can pay out the nose and send your kid to all the clinics in the world, but if he doesn’t possess innate freakish talent, he’s not going to play baseball at the major league level. I believe Longoria was playing JC ball when he finally put it all together and got noticed by scouts. How about Piazza? He was drafted as a “favor”. MLB is littered with guys whose bio’s are similar. I’d say most of the guys who make it have fathers who are baseball nuts and spent hundreds of hours toiling with their sons in the backyard or on the local diamond. One thing that I love about pro sports leagues is that they’re ruthlessly Darwinian. Except for managers who are best friends with the GM….
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
No it's not mutually exclusive, but it's often the case.
Well if my experience with football, squash, and rugby players is anything to go by at least.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
While they might not be sheltered the education levels of LA signees is far from good.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
and that goes for Los Angeles and Lousiana too!
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Education level and intellect are two very different things
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
This is very true.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sorry for you
Because I highly doubt you have ever played for a great coach, or worked for a great manager. Someone who really inspires you to the point where you end up giving more than you thought you even had in you. I hadn’t had one of those for awhile, either, but I have at this point, and it truly does exist – whether you want to believe it or not.
Can players self motivate to try their best, etc? Absolutely. But if you think that players, or even you yourself, or myself, etc, are able to 100% control their emotions, control their energy…well, I don’t know what to say.
I think folks who want to fire Geren for his decision making are a bit misguided. I want to fire Geren because no one on the team likes him, he inspires no one, and lately has caused more negative press than we need.
He certainly doesn't seem to inspire anyone
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 7, 2011 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
He has failed to inspire me.
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Ive played for both. It really didn't matter, I played hard because I don't believe in not.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I f'n LOVE that attitude!
I wish everybody felt that way.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Its why I care about being right. Whats is the point of making predictions if you don't care?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't value prognostication as highly as you do, and don't hold myself to the highest standards on that front.
Playing cards or games or sports, on the other hand, I put the best possible mental and physical effort forth , and do my best not to let the Gerens of my life stand in the way of victory.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
why trade Gio?
do you think his stock is higher than his upside?
otherwise, I tend to agree with you, though I didn’t want to at the beginning of the season
Crappy players
C – Recker
1B – Barton
2B – Cardenas
SS – Rosales then Green
3B – Sizemore
LF – Jackson
CF – Miller
RF – Sweeney
DH – Pujols
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
This actually looks like how Geren would setup this lineup
He would leadoff with Recker, and bat Pujols 9th
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Hmmm. That's not noticeably worse than the team we put out now.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Our team WAR is 2.0 not including pitching.
It wouldn’t be hard to duplicate with guys off the scrap heap.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh yeah. I know it's bad.
But it’s pretty startling that you’ve just promoted a few minor leaguers and moved the utility guys to a full time role in your scenario……and it’s no worse than the team we’re putting out now.
How many other teams could claim this?
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Forst stated in pretty clear terms that Cardenas was not IF material
He is for better or worse a corner OF position player now.
Fire Forst now!
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Well...What I got from the KKorach interview
Was some unusually direct rhetoric regarding why Cardenas’s has shifted to the OF.
Fire Capello! Bring in guys from the Championship who have some fire and want to wear the shirt!
Oh, wait…
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
What Waddle said. Basically you play AAAA filler trying to catch lightening in a bottle like TOR and Scutaro and then trade them.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Why all of them?
Do you plan on getting back just prospects, or packaging them for major league players of more quality? Because I would not be opposed to getting a big hitter like Fielder and getting some other quality bats around him. Just seems out of the question though.
Fielder is a free agent next year.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Youre not opposed to giving Fielder $100m? Good luck with that.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Now?
I don’t know, but it’d be nice to find out how the rest of the season plays out.
Honestly, I think Geren made a difference in many of those 1 run games with his mismanagement. But… we can’t go back and get those wins back so in those terms, no, changing him won’t help the past.
Would you rather just sit and wait for that ‘blow up’ that you seem to especially want?
No... honestly id rather bitch that the blow it up didn't happen when it should and that frost and co didn't do it because they wanted to finish at 500
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Because their a shitty team. The problem is they are bad. Not that Geren is bad.
Everyone hates their manager… pick whatever good manager you want this is still not even a 500 team. I have no idea what people are wringing their hands about Geren this Geren that. Geren didn’t play the game. Geren didn’t make a horrible decisions. They didn’t score. Geren doesn’t change that.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Exhibit A: Kevin Kouzmanoff
He was ‘shocked and surprised’ to be demoted to AAA. This might lead one to believe that his performance this season was deemed by someone to be acceptable enough to be on a major league roster. I guess on the A’s you can make game-losing errors, BUNCHES of errors, and never get on base and then be ‘shocked and surprised’ to be demoted. Makes you wonder what approach Geren used with him, because he should not have been even remotely surprised, much less shocked. Could Geren have turned him around? Maybe not. But clearly he was never given an honest assessment of his performance, nor any clear consequence if he didn’t get his head on straight. At least then it wouldn’t have come as such a shock to go to Sac Town. It’s the little stuff that adds up.
by coffee roaster on Jun 7, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
What? Clearly NOTHING.
That sounds like a natural response to a five-year full-time starter getting news of a demotion to the minors for the first time since 2006. Who wouldn’t be shocked? It says nothing about what he was told, or how he felt about his play, or anything. He could have been told a demotion was possible every day for a month, and he could still be shocked. This whole attempt at psychoanalysis is conjecture at best and fabrication at worst.
As well as Geren saying the day before the demotion, that in an emergency, Kouz could play SS
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Obviously he was talking about Sacramento
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
no, it just shows that Geren doesn't know what is
going on in front of him, behind him, or in the front office; and it will only get worse, day by day, drip by drip, loss by loss.
Fabrication?
Overreact much?
This has become a pretty ugly place. Carry on.
by coffee roaster on Jun 7, 2011 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions
This
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd take a manager that stops playing 'no doubles defence' for a start.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Well that certainly isn't going to be the bench coach that replace him
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
I want to see skinners "no triple" defense that I am sure he has cooked up
and will unleash as soon as he becomes manager
Put a bird on it
it involves Willingham playing from the BBQ terrace, with Coco cross-legged in the batter's eye
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
hey at least they can swat balls back in play.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Certainly not the answer...
But a step in the direction of both competence and giving a fuck about how this organization cOnducts it’s business.
Can anyone argue that geren has ever maximized the qualities of the roster he has at his disposal? Compound that with an all around, teamwide lack of focus with regards to the fundamentals of the game AND poor communication?
I realize the players ultimately have to be made responsible for their underachievement, but at this point don’t you think geren is the wrong person to impart that Piece of knowledge on them that actually motivates them to improve their performance)
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jun 7, 2011 7:37 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Geren doesn't draft for this team. Geren doesn't trade players. Geren doesn't sign players. Geren at most costs like 5 games over a season.
He is irrelevant.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Hardly. Remember who called the 2010-11 offseason a firable offense?
Oh yeah… that was me. And most of those in positions of power here wouldn’t shut up about how silly and short sighted I was.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Here we go.
More “I said this and I was obviously right.”
Geez. What the fuck are you doing with whatever you are doing? Why aren’t you knocking on front office doors with your resume trying to get a job with a major league team from some sport in some city?
by LoneStranger on Jun 7, 2011 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
because life in real MLB baseball sucks and there are plenty of people outside of the game who are smarter than those in it
there is a reason that they aren’t brought into the game.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions
People aren't brought in to orgs because they are too smart?
Really? It’s probably better this way anyway.
We’d probably just complain about you on AN all the time about how you don’t really want to field a winning team and are just excited by the thought of blowing it up and starting over again, because that’s the most interesting.
Oh, and then you’d take up watching professional croquet or something.
Not what I said.
Working your way up is miserable, so few outside of the game actually do it. The MLB is still very much an old boys club.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions
This. Very much so.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
If youre not a highschool/college draftee who has sacraficed education for baseball their entire life
why would you make 28 grand and live in hotel rooms your entire life to be a scout?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't.
Which is why I still do IT work and don’t work for a ballclub.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
And as someone who played semiprofessional sports you would be far more likely to fit in that say I would
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah, not even close.
I didn’t go to a big school or ever play on a high enough level.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
which is still higher than messing up your shoulder after JV baseball
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
hahah I actually stopped playing baseball freshman year
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Whatever you and Beane can bond over soccer.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Does it matter what sport? Cos if not I have a shot at fitting in...
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
How bout you don't just kid with me. Youre too toxic.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Do I kid with you or jeepers? No. Because neither are going to think its funny.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes. Oddities for sure.
Ng didn’t even start in baseball OPS.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Either that, or they wanted something, and went and got it.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Yeah their both so replicatable which is why Ng is the only woman at her level of professional baseball.
I guess no woman ever has ever wanted it enough.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
They are replicable, and will be replicated.
There is surely an old boy network in baseball, as there is in most walks of life. To suggest that those who break through it for reasons other than their talent and drive is to insult them.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
To minimize the role of luck in paradigm breakers is insanely foolish.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
There are hundreds of thousands of people with their intellectual talents and ability and there are two in baseball.
Also Depo played D1 college ball at Harvard…. bu you know keep trying
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
There are not hundreds of thousands of people with their abilities who are interested in doing their jobs.
People who bloviate on blogs do not count as interested. But, you know, keep ending all of your comments with an douchey rejoinder. I’m sure playing at Harvard is what got DePo his foot in the door.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Yeah actually playing at a D1 school is a pretty big deal in terms of getting in the door.
If you don’t think so, then yes, youre completely delusional.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
It has nothing to do with him getting in the door.
Also, you’re sorely misinformed about the extent of his baseball prowess.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
No it does. People that played college baseball of any sort are much more likely to be accepted by the MLB higher ups that existed at the time.
again if you don’t believe this you are completely delusional.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
One year on the JV team gets him in the door?
Yeah, right.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Even when you've got him cold
dfa doesn’t write, “Sorry, I didn’t realized that.” He just keeps pompously plugging away. It’s pretty comic.
by RLangford on Jun 8, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Why don't we not attack one another?
Let’s stop doing that.
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
You are not helping. Seriously.
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
seriously.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
4 SRSLY.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
you love us
admit it
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't quit you, babe, but Imma hafta put you down for awhile...
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
[sigh]
I love you, too.
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
LOVE.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
...although I may have to kill or shave one or two of you.
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Can I pick which?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
start with my chest
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
actually, wouldn't that be TWHS?
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
okay, but I'm finishing where I want.
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
is that gel?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Screw you guys, I'm going home.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
You don't seem to understand. But with you thats not uncommon.
What is more likely to be accepted in baseball 15 years ago?
Harvard nerd that doesn’t like scouts and wants to do drafts based on numbers.
Or
Harvard Ex Collegiate baseball player who wants to do drafts based on numbers.
Only an idiot says A. Never did I say he got his job because of it, I said that playing collegiate or professional baseball gives you credibility that can be found no other way and is highly valued by the industry.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2011 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Really?
Sandy Alderson was a heck of a sharp guy. With the money they throw around in baseball I think they get plenty of guys with SATs off the chart.
Baja been here
yeah, but Alderson wasn't a nepotistic hiring,
unlike many many hirings in MLB.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Agree
Far too much old-boys-club, but there are exceptions to both sides. Look at the staff Gibson has put together in Arizona. People who played in his era, who he knows well and relates to and probably guys who are not just “yes men”. Successful organizations I would guess, are built on teams that are not afraid to speak out, speak up, and take a counter position with the net result being a well thought out decision.
Gary Radnich on KNBR is asking the question on the radio right now: What player of staure would “want” to come play for the A’s? Good question. We may lead the league in not-to-be-traded-to lists players build into their contracts now. Pirates probably close.
Baja been here
It's such a tired act.
Completely degrades the quality of this website.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jun 7, 2011 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Glass houses.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
You're right.
I need to do a better job of tolerating that which I find infuriating. Me giving you more fuel doesn’t help the problem.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Dude, you have no idea when to quit.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Huh?
I acknowledged that I degrade the quality of this website by responding to behavior that I find irritating instead of ignoring it. What’s your problem?
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM /harbaugh
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
No, this kind of bullshit does.
"As the tag line of my favorite dirty joke would have it: 'Keep your hat on. We could wind up miles from here.'" ~Kurt Vonnegut, Hocus Pocus
Is that an objective statement?
That the A’s GM did a poor job of building a contender for the 2011 is an objective statement.
No, it's not.
But I’m sure as hell not the only person that feels that way.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
It seemed that the majority of posters here thought this was a
contending team at the beginning of the season, and have now changed their minds.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 7, 2011 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions
This.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
They really appreciate being reminded of it constantly, too.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
So did we in the offseason... seems like if you cant stand the heat you should get out of the kitchen.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Or we could turn the heat off, just another option
by SeanR on Jun 8, 2011 4:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No you cant. This is the offseason where people like Nico and Jeepers chastized us to all end.
They created this attitude. Now when the shoe is on the other foot their crying like scared children about how it diminishes the site, like they didn’t in the offseason.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
The idea that I spent the offseason chastizing you to all end is pure fiction.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
lol
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
And speaking of glass houses
how many times did you threaten to go all designatedfavreassignment over it, again? Talk about crying like scared children…
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
And finally
there is a difference between passionate disagreement and throwing it in people’s faces when you may ultimately be right (not like that’s decided yet, either.)
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Yeah... there is. It depends on what side you are on.
You just don’t like your current lot in life.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think any of us like the current state of the team
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
If I am a scrub in Sacramento
I LOVE the current state of the team…
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Are any of us scrubs in Sacto?
Come on…fess up, y’all!
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
um... me?!?
I’m not actually on the RiverCats roster, but I live in Sacramento and do a lot of scrubbing.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I always think its a contending team
mostly because I feel all the breaks will go the A’s way
Put a bird on it
I'm usually on board like that, too.
However, the baseball gods have not smiled upon how this club handled Fuentesgate, and are now inflicting grave punishment, breaking one pitcher at a time until their demands are met.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Really? Youre better than to think that Geren turn this from a contending team into a massive failure.
The team sucks. Geren is incidental.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
moslty tongue-in-cheek. mostly.
maybe Geren isn’t all to blame. but I am willing to give someone else a chance to make it better than it currently is. there really are managers that can do more with less, dfa. (and vice versa)
I'm here to talk about the past.
Also Geren was here the last three years, its not like you didn't know they had a bonehead manager before this started.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree wtih you to an extent
I think Geren being here or not being here doesn’t take a crappy team and make them good. However, at the same time, you have a lot of guys who seem to be playing upset. It seems like Fuentes (obviously), Matsui (his comments regarding lots of offdays) and Kouzmanoff (his comments regarding it is tough not knowing when youre going to play) demonstrate that a lot of people have a problem with playing for him. Or at least some problem, because I think that represents the tip of the iceberg.
Earlier in this thread somewhere you commented he could make a 5 game difference. I agree with that and think 5 games is quite significant in what I expected to be a close race.
But, I think Geren is a huge problem and that we can see an immediate change with his ouster. There is no fire on this team, I think a new manager could bring that. Look what Showalter did with Baltimore (granted they did have a bunch of guys come off the DL etc) or what Jim Tracy did with the Rox. Sometimes it can jumpstart something, infuse new passion or even in the opposite way show everyone that everyone is accountable top down.
Geren isn’t the cause as you’ve said, he is part of a larger systemic problem, but he is at the top of the food chain amongst those wearing the Green and Gold. A new field commander certainly couldn’t hurt and I think could swing us those five games even this late and while that doesn’t get us a winning season necessarily it makes for better baseball and sends a good message throughout the organization that we care about every game.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
by dwishinsky on Jun 8, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Re: Lineups
it’s a roster problem, and a problem of guys not hitting. So, I see Geren’s reasoning trying to exploit matchups as best he can. That said, I think one Geren failure is not sticking with the same lineup at least 4 times a week. We have some players who are clearly better than others and they need to play everyday. That’s how this team will get hot, by players regressing to their career norms; not by plugging in Sizemore et al randomly
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Call it irrational exuberance
Call it miss placed hope or faith. Yes, I thought in a weaked West we could contend. Angels looked like they could be beaten, Texas had an above average year in 2010 from a suspect pitching staff and Seattle looked weak. I thought 87 to 90 wins could do it. I was wrong about the A’s and now I want a complete rehaul starting with Geren. He needs to take that bloated smug look and go away.
Baja been here
You say this like it's some sort of error.
It seemed that the majority of posters here thought this was a contending team at the beginning of the season, and have now changed their minds.
I will grant you that jumping all the way from “we’re going to win the pennant!” to “blow the team up!” based on eight games is something of an overreaction, but that’s just a quantitative question. Qualitatively, the logic is sound.
Unless one is the purest ideologue, one makes judgments based on evidence. When more evidence arrives, it affects one’s judgments. An eight-game losing streak is not an irrelevant piece of data when it comes to evaluating the team. If one is going to change one’s mind about how good the team is, seeing eight losses in a row is a good reason to do it.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Who cares if you are not the only person who feels that way, doesn't mean you are not wrong.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions
No, I'm completely right that the way you conduct yourself annoys people.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
which is irrelevant. I have a grand total of 0 strikes. I am within the rules.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
If the rules are the only thing that matter in life, then you're absolutely right.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
yay, more personal attacks.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
If managers don't matter, then why have them?
I don’t mean this in a snide way, either. The GM should be able to accomplish the same thing over the phone.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I would be fine with that.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, then the GM really wouldn't have an effect either. So we won't need him to do the manager's job.
Why not have the players manage themselves?
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Still a WAR of -1.5 is pretty bad
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 7, 2011 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I went high to appase the masses.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions
5 games for a manager is ridiculously high.
If that’s true, then the market for good managers would be a hell of a lot stronger.
Unless you’re saying they can affect those games but in ways that are completely unpredictable, sort of like you might say the weather can effect a five-win swing over the season.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I have no idea the number. I just know that it is seriously unlikely that its enough to even make us a mediocre team this year.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2011 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
If I may...
Geren at most costs like 5 games over a season. He is irrelevant.
This stands out as the core of the dispute to me, and I think the only thing that sets people off in disagreement to your latter assertion that he is irrelevant is that to many contenders, 5 games is not irrelevant. Now I happen to fall on your side of most arguments, but you do tend to get carried away sometimes. As much as those who would assert that replacing Geren makes us competitive again – neither is true – both are examples of people getting carried away in a general direction. Personally, I wouldn’t even give him credit for as many as 5 games, maybe 3, but the calls for Geren’s head came when we still looked (in the standings) like a team that was going to be neck-and-neck all year with Texas. I was nearly as skeptical as you were, and now more so, I started advocating a full blow-up about 2 weeks ago, when our marginal chances became exponentially smaller. However, a manager that costs you anywhere from 3-5 games in a season should be fired. It doesn’t mean you’re wrong that he isn’t responsible for the majority of our problems, but why tolerate any detriment from someone that positively contributes little to nothing?
va-ma-NOS! at-LET-i-COS!
by Area 510 on Jun 7, 2011 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
This
I think very, very few people think either that Geren is what’s most wrong with this team or that getting rid of him would make us a contender. So to a certain extent, dfa is arguing with nobody.
People spend so much time and emotional energy calling for Geren’s head because: 1) he clearly adds nothing to this team and is a problem that, unlike so many others that this team has, can be easily fixed; 2) the refusal of the front office to fix, or even acknowledge, this problem is infuriating…and suggests an attitude that has helped produce other, more intractible problems for this club.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
Its actually quite hard to fix. Where are they going to find a quality manager for a shit losing team halfway through the season?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I can't see the Braves holding Jim Fregosi down as a scout if a manager job is made available.
He’d be a great placeholder between Best Man Bob and Darren Bush in 2012 or 13.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
My understanding is hes like the ASD?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Assistant Scouting Director? All Star Dude? Al Simmons Disease?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Assistant Scouting Director
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2011 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Why couldn't it. We could get a throw untill your arm falls off guy. Or someone worse than Geren, someone that starts Matsui and sits Barton for Jackson.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem is that (usually) someone has to be the fall guy.
The players won’t be fired.
That leaves the manager.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
BECAUSE IT SHOWS PASSION AND FIRE DAN GOSH
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Dan is the last one they should fire.
Dan is like the Area scout who drafted Cahill
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions
This.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
We need to have a mojo coach.
It can be a fan, or someone in a mascot suit. His only job is to bring good mojo to the team, in whatever way he feels most effective. So long as the team is doing well, we cheer him for his mojo skills. Then if he screws up and the team sucks, we can his ass and dismiss him in some cathartic on-field ritual.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I believe the Dodgers pioneered this practice
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jun 8, 2011 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Or we could get somebody better.
Beane isn’t going to hire a Dusty Baker. Or someone who makes horrible personnel decisions like that.
He hired Geren, didn't he?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
But people complain like hes worse
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions
this is my point. Baker has gotten how many teams to the playoffs?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions
seasons
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually like Baker as a manager. He's won wherever he's gone
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 7, 2011 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions
this
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he's the perfect example of the "players matter, not the coaches argument".
Hell, fans have hated him when his team went to the WS.
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
Fans hate all managers. That means nothing.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 7, 2011 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Sooooo what does hating Geren mean then?
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
Nothing
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 6:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I never got how hating anyone made
a person feel better
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I hate you.
Oh hey! That does feel kinda good!
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Hee
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Hating never makes anyone feel better.
However, utterly destroying the one or thing you hate often does.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions
baseball would never merit it, but in blood feud situations, yes.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I dislike some people,
but I don’t think I hate anyone.
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Kirk Gibson and Peter Gammons
breathe a sigh of relief.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Which was my point...
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
Thank you. Aside from the fact that you are 100% right - firing Geren won't improve the team - I find the gratuitous
Geren bashing makes this site difficult to read. Its the same thing every season: Geren will do something objectively dumb in April. A front page writer with good writing skills but questionable baseball insight will take him to task for this, providing a criticism couched in hyperbole and trying-to-be-clever which over-emphasizes the impact of Geren’s dumb decision. From then on people will start to blame any sort of negative outcome on Geren, even when his decision wasn’t necessarily worse than the hypothetical alternative advocated (eg. I can’t believe Geren left X in there). From there the Y DON YOU CHEW SUM GUM MACHA crowd takes over and we’re left with an endless barage of vitriolic Geren-related pejoratives which contain zero baseball insight (in fact, they actually reify misconceptions) and overlook the fact that this team is just bad. Somewhere in the process people who should know better are caught up in the fervor, and we start to see a bunch of highly speculative pseudo-psychology on the importance of not being Bob Geren.
I wouldn’t argue that Geren is a good manager – certainly he’s made some questionable decisions, like failing to put on the double switch in Chicago last year, but none of his decisions have cost the A’s games so much as their inability to play baseball well, to field a good team. For every bad decision Geren has made, there have been countless miffs in the field and poor ABs.
Wanna know why the A’s suck. How about this:
OPS+:
Jack Cust: 108
Hideki Matsui: 61
Yeah, I’d still rather talk about Jack Cust than Bob Geren. I don’t want to be the type who says, “AN was better back when…” and that would be disingenuous: first of all I don’t believe it and secondly manager bashing is not exclusive to Geren’s tenure. Still, I think so much of the tenor of the conversation in this case comes down from the top – front page writers who like to score points off a good Geren joke. As much as I appreciate the tireless efforts of the front page crew, I feel like they could raise the level of conversation if they went with a different approach, topically speaking, than the one that provides the cheapest outlet for their frustration.
by Aufheben on Jun 7, 2011 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 11 recs
Rec'd
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 7, 2011 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Regarding Cust
has there ever been a player with an OPS+ that high with that little power? How do you slug .341 and have an OPS+ that high?
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
His OBP is like .370
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
I'm aware of that.
I am honestly curious if there has ever been a player other than Eddie Gaedel who just walks, a lot.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Max Bishop career
.271/.423/.366
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 7, 2011 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
So the theme is they exist, but they're rare, and seem to be confined to the dead ball era.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Bishop played from 1924-35. That was the lively ball era.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 6:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Right, sorry.
My eye gravitated towards his birthdate for some reason. More accurately, then, they all seem to be from a long time ago.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Eddie Collins slugged .330 in 1918 and had an OPS+ of 120
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 7, 2011 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions
If he slugged .330, I'm not sure how he would have a BA above .330. Doesn't seem ridiculously high to me.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Duh, you're right.
I’ve been staring at a computer too long.
He just walked a lot and always made contact. Struck out 13 times in 425 PA. I guess that’s the difference between a Hall of Famer and Jack Cust.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I think that's an reactive oversimplification
because the negative impact of strikeouts was overstated for so long. A strikeout is nearly the same as any other out, but it’s not quite the same. Eddie Collins seems like a useful example of the difference. Much like on the other side of the coin, the old adage “a walk is as good as a hit” is nearly true, but not exactly true. A hit is really slightly better.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Eh, the difference is much smaller than that.
A walk is 3/4ths of a single (ish), but the difference between a strikeout and any other out is something like a hundredth of a run.
With league-wide BABIP of .300, sure.
As Nick points out below, if your BABIP is closer to .400 rather than .300, the gap between a K and another out probably widens.
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Much smaller than what?
I don’t see where I specified what it is, just that it exists. In any case, they are different. The great info on it below is appreciated.
Or do you mean the difference between Jack Cust and Eddie Collins? I didn’t mean to imply that was the only difference (Collins had a serious glove and stole 741 bases, too). Sorry if I was unclear on that.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
In the dead ball era, not quite so much
Fields were terribly maintained by modern standards, fielders wore tiny gloves that barely helped them grab the ball, and the outfields were so enormous that if the ball got between the OFs you could run forever. I’d bet that overall there was a much higher reward for just putting the ball in play in 1918 than in 2011.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Hi my name is DFA and I love you.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Beautiful, except for the reminding me we let Cust go part.
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
If, when you hear Bob Geren speak, your Creep Alarms don't go off - you don't have Creep Alarms.
See, there’s a silent minority around these parts who aren’t actually blaming Geren for the team sucking – but think he has the personality of wet cardboard.
It’s actually quite ok to want him out of the picture for that reason alone. We’re watching this sport for entertainment first – and as vehicle for scientific study probably second.
Fire Bob Geren 4 Lyfe.
by sleepingcobra on Jun 7, 2011 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't blame Geren
for the fact that our guys can’t hit. I just don’t like Geren. I think he’s mediocre and boring. I don’t feel he earned the job…I really do think that he is the manager only because he is Beane’s friend and did not earn it on merit in the least. It bothers me that Wash was bypassed for him…Wash did a great job with the A’s.
So even though I agree that AN uses him far too often as a scapegoat… I really have very little sympathy for him.
by IM4Oakgal on Jun 7, 2011 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bob Geren sucks and he doesn't matter. Why would I let him bring me down? He DOESN'T EVEN MATTER.
Billy Bean sucks (of late) and he does matter. His GM-ing has serious implications for the long-term health of this club. Yeah, I could do without Geren. I’d rather have Braden. But I consider that pretty tengential – certainly not worthy of gross exaggerations, threats, slander, epithets, and paranoid speculation. Its tangential enough that I wouldn’t even discuss firing Geren as a prerequisite to fixing the A’s.
I’ll be entertained by the A’s when they are a well-run franchise, even if they’re managed by a computer or a piece of wet cardboard as you say. Hell, especially if they’re managed by a piece of wet cardboard – it would lend creedence to what some of us already know about managers, that they don’t matter. I would love to hear Joe Buck and Tim McCarver gush about how well the piece of cardboard has her guys playing.
If they're really going to be "well run" then they shouldn't have a manager that costs them 1.5 games per year
It’s all part of the package
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 7, 2011 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
and that's not even counting all the times he put Fuentes in,
and the fans were all, “OMG, don’t do that! Are you insane?”
and Fuentes got creamed anyway.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions
In addition to WaddellCanseco's point:
Again, Geren makes me feel bored at best, and bad otherwise. I don’t like watching wet cardboard on TV. My precious eyeball-time that advertisers so desperately seek is averted just by the knowledge that wet cardboard is managing, however meaninglessly, the team I’m tuning in to be entertained by.
Think about it this way: We’re shareholders. Geren’s the CEO. He has to report to us about how our shares are doing. Our shares aren’t doing well, and he’s absolutely dreadful to listen to at shareholder meetings. Even if it isn’t his direct fault (the product sucks) we force the CEO to resign and get a new one, who makes us feel better about our shares.
by sleepingcobra on Jun 8, 2011 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
except the club is run more like a corrupt third-world government,
collecting a bunch of foreign aid, then putting less than half of that in the mouths of people, while the rest is spent on maintaining an opulent art-collecting jetting-off-to-soccer-matches lifestyle for the ruling elite.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd be fine with eliminating revenue sharing and letting the crappy teams go
out of business or move to New York
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Eliminate revenue sharing and T-rights.
Either eliminate the draft or globalize it.
End free agent compensation. End slotting. Allow trading of draft picks.
Actually, if it were up to me, I’d ban multiyear contracts and make EVERYBODY a free agent EVERY YEAR, just like Charlie Finley would’ve.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Sure you would,
but the successful teams would not.
That’s the key. The successful teams need crappy teams to beat up on. Without them, the whole spectator sport falls apart.
Don’t think for a minute that the Yankees tolerate revenue sharing because it’s forced upon them and they can’t fight it. They accept it because they know that if bad teams are allowed to fail it drags down the entire league. Teams like the Orioles are a key component in their financial success.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
nice comment
Agreed that the Geren bashing is excessive. He often receives mutually exclusive criticisms simultaneously on this site.
here's the truth
Personally, I’d love to take the disease — the incontrovertible fact that in the last five years this ownership group has run this product deep into the ground, and arguably-if-not-downright-likely with a degree of intention to do so behind it to boot, and with nary a single indication of accountability along the way to anyone but themselves and their own bottom line — to task and lessen the focus on one of the more irritating symptoms of the disease, aka Captain Bob… himself the product of an insidious nepotism that we know to be part and parcel of the rampant disease of systemic unaccountability anyway.
I would also love, love, LOVE to paint these points into their proper context in the greater social paradigm these events and circumstances inhabit, wherein the wealthy, connected oligarchs who now control the vast majority of the resources on this planet express their contempt and disdain for the very people who have made their enterprises successful and even possible: the customers that patronize the businesses by which they have made themselves wealthy and connected in the first place. I’d love to get into it all… believe me I could connect the dots of similarity between the stock/bank bailouts and the housing foreclosures in parallel to the luxury tax/corporate welfare and the subsequent way it has served to unbuckle the desires of this ownership from the sentiments of the customer base it has left out in the cold. I could write stuff that would be must-see TV on these topics, oh yes I could.
Know why I can’t? Because the people that put this website on the internet don’t think any of you are grown-up and/or circumspect enough to discuss it in a civilized manner that won’t devolve into politically-couched attacks and conflicts, that’s why. This makes reporting on what is endemically a political situation — the colonization of the Athletics franchise by forces essentially hostile to it in its current home and configuration and the various reactions and responses this has elicited from all the various participants from the mayors of Oakland and San Jose all the way on down to us fans and pundits and everyone in between — next to impossible without assuring any attempt at such good deeds would not go unpunished by the people that run AN.
I’d also like to tell you that there’s Mondays when I run this thing where I devote up to and exceeding ten full hours of my time to it, for no reimbursement whatsoever other than my own sense of responsibility to this whole situation, and that makes it difficult to hear how what myself and the other (completely volunteer) FP writers are doing just isn’t measuring up to the nuanced degree of critique you feel is so lacking.
"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto
by emperor nobody on Jun 7, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
But that also smacks of conspiracy
I may agree with you politically, but sometimes the simple answer isn’t conspiracy, it’s incompetence. I mean, you can argue that Matsui was signed in order to put more Japanese dollars in Wolff’s cash register and for no other reason, or you can argue that Matsui was signed for baseball reasons. While it’s possible the former is true, it’s more likely the latter is true, which makes it an incompetent signing (which most folks at AN understood at the time).
A look at the Oakland Athletics over the past three years doesn’t have to show colonization by forces intent on moving the team to San Jose. If we look at Billy Beane’s track record, apart from a handful of brilliant deals, we see a lot of attempts at throwing mud against the wall to see if it sticks, the removal of anyone who threatens Beane’s hegemony, we see the abject failure of his proteges - J.P.Ricciardi and Paul DePodesta - when they became General Managers, and we see, presumably, the abject failure today of David Forst in his choices as well. Maybe the real problem is that Billy Beane is a one-trick pony -- and he’s great at that trick, the super-deal - but the rest of the time, he’s an emperor with very threadbare clothing.
maybe the problem is that Bud Selig came to the Coliseum in 2002
and said that either the A’s must leave the facility or risk being contracted, and as the former option has gone belly up the latter has become the plan, don’t ask me.
As per conspiracy, I know real well from what’s gone on in my life — so much of which I could never get into on here — that the greatest weapon the colluders and conspirators have is the predilection, ever-extant, in the people they are fucking over to say “No one could be that evil! I’d hate to think THAT!”
"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto
by emperor nobody on Jun 8, 2011 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
As a person with a highly developed evil side,
I advise humans to NEVER think that an opponent couldn’t be THAT evil…
It’s almost always a mistake.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Your front page work is fine
Don’t give it any more thought than you already do—which is no doubt plenty. You’re work is greatly appreciated.
by RLangford on Jun 8, 2011 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've always appreciated all your work. It's among the best I've seen at any blog.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 6:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Keep up the good work EN
as long as you can, and have the energy and peace of mind to do so. I always look forward to your words, and secretly agree with most of your deeply held convictions.
Couple points:
1) We can still do something about Geren. Cust is water under the bridge. Or, to put this another way, choosing to talk about X rather than Y does not necessarily entail believeng that X’s presence (or non-presence) on the club is more statistically significant than Y’s.
2) We don’t have to choose to talk about Geren or Cust. We can talk about both. Indeed, it would be most healthy for those of us who want to talk about Geren to talk about Geren and for those of us who want to talk about Cust to talk about Cust, and for both groups to get a little less bent out of shape about the other’s preference.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Doesn't that depend on the replacement?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions
You're gunning for his job?
Best wishes for your candidacy!
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I dunno about the team, but it would make the site phenomenally better.
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
When Geren is gone,
all the bitter squabbling and meta will magically disappear!
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
not much, but a little
Surely not as much as getting better players would, but that’s harder to do.
What needs to be done...
Someone needs to sit either in the bleachers or behind the A’s dugout with a life size (or larger than life size) cutout of Bob Geren standing, with a speech bubble. The bubble will be a slot for a Dry Erase Board.
On it, the person(s) will write, though out the game, things that Geren would do. Things like:
(At the start of the game): Facing a Lefty, better bat Barton 2nd and put in Matsui.
(Any time during a close game before the 9th): Better bring in Fuentes. He’s not the closer.
(In the 9th inning or extra innings where the A’s have the lead or the score is tied): Better bring in Fuentes, he’s the closer.
(when the pitcher is laboring in the 5th inning): I know he can handle it. I’ll leave him in to give up a couple more runs.
(When the pitcher is cruising through 5 innings): We’re through 5, take him out!
Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.
The team has given up
No manager would put up with a team giving up on itself in June but that is OK for Geren and Beane.
Taylor another home run tonight
Wouldn’t mind seeing Carter, Taylor, Cardenas soon
by buckfan6 on Jun 7, 2011 7:57 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Also who is Ed Harris?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:06 PM PDT reply actions
oh that dude. Couldn't tell with the hat
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 7, 2011 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions
An actor. Played in The Right Stuff
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
He's also the spitballing pitcher in Major League
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 7, 2011 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope. Can't remember the guy's name, but it wasn't Ed Harris.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
It was. Eddit Harris.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Eddie, even.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
yes. eddie harris was in major league and not much else. ed harris was william walker in walker and lots of other stuff.
by AV on Jun 7, 2011 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry guys, didn't realize they had the same name
I just knew the pitcher in Major League wasn’t the guy who threw out the first pitch last night.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
Eddie Harris was the character's name in Major League.
The actor’s name was Chelcie Ross
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
d’oh. there i go confusing fiction and life again.
by AV on Jun 8, 2011 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
He's also from Norman, OK
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 7, 2011 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Crisco. Bardol. Vagisil.
Any one of them give ya another 2 to 3 inches drop on your curve ball.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
TWS...
No, actually, I don’t think she ever said that.
by LoneStranger on Jun 8, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Huge kudos to Moscoso
For somehow managing to make just a couple of low leverage mistakes when he must have been gassed from the first pitch. You can’t ask for anything more from a pitcher in that situation.
Unfortunately, the A’s just can’t hit a lick, and their entire offense is not performing to career norms. Players not playing to their abilities is the sole responsibility of management and coaching staff, and should be addressed as such.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I'm in finals right now, so I can't do it,
but I think it’d be interesting to look at players under Geren and see whether they have underperformed or overperformed. Based on my memory, I’d go with the latter. Just looking at last years team, I’d say Rajai, Barton, Ellis, Pennington (kinda, he’s a debatable player) Cust, Crisp, Rosales, and then a lot of the pitching staff overperformed their expectations.
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
I'm not, so
In wRC, first number is 2010, second is career:
Davis 100, 100
Barton 127, 108
Ellis 104, 96
Pennington 97, 94
Cust 135, 123 (though he is a streaky pogo stick, going 130, 108, 135, 108 the last four years)
Crisp 128, 98
Rosales 98, 78
So, no, yes, yes, not really, sort of, yes, yes, so you’re generally more right than wrong. Your sample is specifically the possible overachiever, not the rest of the suckpile, though. With the rotation, I imagine you’re right, though the rotation was:
a) all a bunch of guys in their early 20’s; and
b) a lot of that credit should probably go to a guy that may well have run screaming from the notion of continuing to work with Geren.
It’s hard to argue about this year, though. Across the board slouchfest.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Interesting
Obviously it’d be better to look at Geren’s complete tenure, rather than just two years. I’ll take a look after my finals.
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
Would be good to look at both
It’s entirely possible that Geren didn’t suck as much then as he did now, e.g., he’s “lost the team.”
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
This team is causing us to all lose our minds!
I’ve seen so much going at each others throats over the fact that our team sux. I wish I could be ten again and have my team be the best most feared team in baseball. Or at least see a team with youth and the desire to win and be better. I can’t help but think this is going to get far worse.
by Jmo1son on Jun 7, 2011 8:16 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Where is the Gut Check/Heart/Brains in this TEAM?
First off kick Geren off the staff. Then clean house with anyone not hitting their weight. Come on it’s June 7th and your first base man hasn’t hit a HR ! There is not down side to bringing up 5-6 kids out of Sacramento, Midland or Stockton at this point. Not a thing to lose by shaking up the organization. Maybe even a trade (Either for Nutcase?) Hey Billy its June and we are going nowhere fast pull the trigger.
OUT
Morada Mudshark
Dashed expectations
We are suffering from dashed expectations. We all thought that our offense would
be better and our pitching would be dominate. Our pitching was dominate until 3/5’s of
the starters went on dl. The players have no hope, they are growing beards for hunting season already. I say bring up Carter, Cardenas, Taylor and any other prospect. Afterall,
they can’t do any poorer than what we got.
I'm going to buy a big box of green and gold razors so we can all slit our wrists.
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Jun 7, 2011 10:13 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Then wait a few more games...
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Jun 8, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Gilette Proglide!
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I took last night's game off...
…and traveled with a friend to the ballpark across the bay. The long-haired kid got his 1000 K, and the home team won in extra. I saw Matt Stairs get a hit and I found 5 bucks on the concourse and won a pack of Sausages..Everybody won a pack of sausages! This was baseball heaven. I was as close as I’ve ever been to joining the ‘dark-side’.
I love the A’s and I think the coliseum is a great place to watch baseball. I can live with a losing team. That’s a big part of baseball. But it’s hard to watch upper management become ambivalent towards the city of Oakland. It’s hard to watch the city of Oakland be ambivalent towards the A’s. And why would anyone hire Bob Geren over Ron Washington? Bob was a solid AAA manager. Why mess that up? If Ron were still here does anyone think we’d be seeing all these errors? I hope things get better. I really do.
There are just too many people on this site
who appear to see one of their central roles as disabusing others of their silly, misguided views—not for the sake of clarifying, but for the sake of asserting, “I’m smarter than you,” or more realistically, for the sake of asserting, “your opinion is stupid.”
The result of this is that t’s not bad enough that the A’s are losing so regularly. The average fan gets to add to the losing the fact that this site—which could serve as a pretty useful outlet to blowing off steam both rationally and irrationally—is perpetually monitored by this little faction of experts who are always there to make sure that some fan who might be here to vent or to not quite analytically enough comment on the team’s woes is put in his rightful place.
It’s really pretty fucked up, if you think about it.
by RLangford on Jun 8, 2011 1:02 AM PDT reply actions 11 recs
Many other sites are worse.
I got BANNED from DRaysBay for suggesting that contending clubs shouldn’t worry too hard about Super-2 status, and call up strong minor leaguers in April and May of contending years.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions
They also aggressively ban women over there too.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions
As they should.
What are women doing there, when there is work to do in Florida kitchens
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I trust your wife doesn't lurk here
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
You did notice I was refering to those in Florida?
The ladies in CA are great wherever they want to be.
( I luv you hunny!)
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Yeah, if I could get away with it, I would happily stab the people who run that site in the throat.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions
It is just insecurity
It is not that these people are smarter, it is that they feel the need to use the internet to make themselves feel better about whatever else is upsetting them in life. A well adjusted smart person doesn’t go around pounding his chest and belittling others.
This is junior high all over again. Just remember how you handled it then and move on.
You are correct
and your point has been made (and blasted) several times before. This site consists of casual fans who just want to express some pointless view (like mine) or perhaps just to vent, and then you have the “Elite” who are here to correct everyone else. Still, it’s the best site for getting an in-depth view of what is happening with the A’s.
The greenmachine
I think you just insulted elcroata's great aunt
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jun 8, 2011 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gezundheit?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
I slightly disagree.
There’s several “elite”, stat concious posters who are polite and helpful (won’t name names because lord knows what that will stir up), that really add a lot of value to the site.
Then there’s the “elite” posters who, let’s be honest, are just douchebags. Whether it’s baseball, film or what to have for breakfast, they’re just angry unfullfilled people who the closest thing to joy in their lives is being mathematically “right” about something that is predominately subjective and cannot be quantified.
Again, won’t name names but everyone, probably even them, know who they are.
by AsFan72 on Jun 8, 2011 5:41 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
I agree.
There are many on this site who have gone out of their way to educate and help me achieve a greater understanding of the proper use of stats and their meanings. They also seem to be among those who more freely admit when they are incorrect in their analysis/ opinions.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
or, you won't name names because it's not true and you don't want a strike for calling people out.
or you want to hide behind the keyboard and be anonymous.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Or, they'll make themselves obvious soon enough with the very sort of response people are talking about ;)
by AsFan72 on Jun 8, 2011 7:08 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I freely admit that I'm an asshole.
Never claimed otherwise.
What’s worse is people who act like assholes but try as hard as they can to not actually say anything.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
HI BLOOMIE {waves}
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
wait, you, an asshole?
I don’t believe it.
Didn’t you make some nice grilling, and shared?
Not being an asshole is harder than I thought.
He was talking about naming names of people who are polite and helpful, not the other way around.
I'm here to talk about the past.
And the sad part is
there used to be more of the former, and now they’re gone, at least in part due to the latter.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Nah, most of them had problems with management.
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd completely agree with this
I’d written something a longer, adding in this qualifier, then just edited it down to the main point. These writers are absolutely polite and helpful and add plenty to the site.
see, it’s maybe not “either/or.” none of it. from stats/eye to who makes a good point and who is a jerk. THAT’S the organizational problem here on this site (in humanity at large too?). we keep coming to this like there can only be one correct, knowable answer that we need to get to as fast as possible, kindness be damned, rather than thinking there’s a huge pile of gray area to delve into (baseball? people? politics? life? god?), and that, even when we’re done looking at it all, it will still be gray and unknowable, but hey, at least we’re so familiar with the subject that it now lives with us, plus (bonus!) we spent time with other people checking it out. (and yeah, i get my own subtext, that even in my distinction there is a place in the middle.)
by AV on Jun 8, 2011 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Would it be the best site to get in depth view of the A's if it were just people puking I HATE GEREN all over the scream?
and there was no one else here?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
That's a pretty ridiculous false dilemma
Those aren’t are only choices.
by RLangford on Jun 8, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Obviously you need to decide...
…how much you care that there are other people saying things you don’t think are very intelligent or who state things in an intemperate way.
Most of us try to ignore such people. Or you can try politely getting them to see your side of things.
By and large, yelling at them or leaving the site because of them seems like a silly reaction to me, but YMMV.
This much is certain: in an active, open forum like this, it’s pretty much guaranteed that there will be people (probably a lot of people) who you think are silly, ill-informed, or annoying. So wishing that weren’t the case seems like a waste of emotional energy to me.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
fuck it, I'll name names
Danmerqury doesn’t seem to think we should fire Geren. I don’t agree with him at all, I think we should can Geren. I’m sure I’m well oversimplifying here, but thats not the point.
Dan makes some good points, states them well, and I can agree to disagree. He’s bringing intelligent discourse to the site without being rude or condescending.
by SeanR on Jun 8, 2011 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
BUT HE'S JUST A STUPID ROBOT HE DOES WHAT HE'S TOLD.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
interesting
Maybe the A’s can fire Geren and replace him with a robot. Sadly, you could program the robot to make optimal decisions, lineup wise, by the stats every time.
Then when Fuentes doesn’t know his role, just tweak the robot to fire off the plans a few minutes earlier next time.
Oakland gains an identity – the Oakland Robots.
This would be absurd but at least I’d be interested watching
That's not a nice thing to say about danmerqury, mikev ;-)
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Everyone has very interesting takes on this whole situation.
Also a lot of anger, which is understandable. Let’s just hope the A’s can turn this thing around soon!
M Go Blue
I think a lot of us would settle at this point....
…for the A’s front office looking like they care enough to even seriously try to turn this thing around.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 6:43 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
They just made a bunch of moves. Isn't that "caring"?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How I feel, in 10 words.
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
Well it's certainly better than nothing.
If the question is: am I happier than I was before Kouz was sent down, the answer is yes (and the fact that Kouz was reportedly surprised reinforces why this was such a good thing for him and the club).
But I think we can all agree that, given the problems of this club, these moves are not going to meaningfully move us toward becoming a contender anytime in the future.
Unfortunately, we need to see larger changes in the way this club does business. These might include a willingness to spend more money, more creative solutions to the stadium problem, a new manager and/or GM, or simply selling the team to people who have better solutions to these issues.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions
This means it's not enough to look like the FO "cares". They have to have a real
plan for success.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions
"Caring" is necessary, not sufficient...
And my comment above was that I’d like to see them care enough to seriously turn this team around. That would mean considering much larger moves than they’ve made so far.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions
It looks like Neukom will never sell the T-rights,
and Wolffisher don’t have the balls to sue MLB and try to break the antitrust exemption like Al Davis would’ve.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Why do they have to sue mlb? They just need enough owner votes to override
Neukom. I’m pretty confident Bud will get it done….or he won’t and the team will move to Brooklyn.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Why the heck would the Mets or Yankees allow a third team in that market?
If Neukom is tenacious with his T-rights, I’d hate to see how the YANKEES would fight against a market intrusion.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
It's not up to them solely. Territorial rights are granted by MLB. It's just a
question of getting enough owner votes to overrule them. I’m going to predict that Bud is going to get enough votes to move the A’s to SJ and the Rays to Brooklyn.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Quite possible.
If Bud knows one thing it’s vote counting.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
You guys are a lot more optimistic about it than I am.
I’m thinking that Selig is gonna punt the issue to his successor, who’ll be afraid to face a lawsuit from Neukom.
I think the A’s need to consider legal action to force the issue.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Since when are billionaires afraid of lawsuits?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Neukom can't sue unless he wants to open a bigger can of worms
That really probably aren’t good for the Giants.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
TBH, I don't think they would care.
Their market is more than New York. Way more.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
They really cared this offseason according to everyone who is bitching about the manager.
Now that it is going badly… boy does no one care.
Its a ridiculous.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
This is true
I think they were willing to spend—they more or less have to given revenue sharing—and I think they do want to win. Why wouldn’t they? (As well: the notion of a conspiracy to not win is too far-fetched to me and not borne out in their actions.) But I also think there’s little hint of any attachment to reality during this actual season so far.
It’s strange how little the team is publicly reacting to what is going on. The beaten-down fans of this team understandably want to see a little public urgency—not quiet beyond the scenes urgency. They rightfully want to have a sense that someone is actually at the helm of this fast sinking ship. They want to be assured that all, in fact, is not lost.
Beane should be doing this. It’s baffling to me that he’s so seemingly invisible.
Exactly
“Caring” is, among other things, about marketing.
You have a product that you are, in various ways, trying to market to fans and potential fans. If that product is not very good, you need to at least give the impression that it will be in the future (indeed, one of the chief pleasures of watching a not-very-good ball team is seeing diamonds-in-the-rough emerge). The A’s front office has totally failed in this task.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
They didn't fail with Cahill, Anderson, Bailey, Gio, Suzuki and Barton.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure what your point is.
This team is not drawing fans. It’s doing a poor job marketing itself.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Calling Suzuki and Barton "diamonds" seems like a stretch
(especially in Zook’s case)
The team has good pitching, though much of it is injured. But the offense is so terrible that the good pitching can’t even get us to .500.
And the current offensive diamonds-in-the-rough don’t seem to be the answer.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
The point is that all the talk of being able to take a crappy product
as long as the FO shows it’s “caring” or “fiery” or “developing diamonds in the rough” is disingenuous. Fans want a winning team, a nice stadium in a nice location, good service and good broadcasting. Full Stop.
I simply don’t believe that anyone would be any happier if everyone sprinted around like Adam Rosales, Geren got ejected in every loss and if Beane demoted people and made trades every week.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Eh getting ejected is entertaining.
Plus people would stop bitching about bullpen management.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
GM and Manager tantrums and shit-talk are HELLA entertaining.
I kinda envy the White Sox on that front.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
100% this
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with this completely.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
The "marketable" guys ARE signed for the future
Cahill, Suzuki, Anderson. It’s clear who this team is building around, even if they aren’t superstars.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Suzuki seems like the real gamble to me among those three.
He appears a lot less marketable than he was a couple years ago.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, we might have lost on that
But it’s not big money. If we had traded him, people would have been howling, so you can’t say they haven’t tried.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not complaining about that decision having been taken...
…in the past.
I do think that banking on Zooks as a marketable commodity in the future is silly.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
perhaps
But they are signed. Which, considering people’s impression of the A’s as some sort of MLB farm team, should provide some sort of security.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Good point
The silence is deafening, and the moves have, thus far, simply been window dressing. The Front Office picked up both DeJesus and Willingham because so many players were entering Rule V status and needed to move on. The Matsui move was inexplicable from Day One because his decline was so evident in 2010 and because Chris Carter seemed ready to roll as a permanent DH.
What’s curious about the make up of the A’s, circa April 2011, is that nobody from the farm was allowed to crack the club, or was really in a position to crack the club. The only up-and-coming reliever had been traded, and Carter wasn’t going to make the team. Sogard and Tolleson were seen as place-holders for Rosales (a position that LaRoche eventually occupied).
In retrospect, it’s likely Curt Young left because of Geren; it’s likely Tony D. left because of Geren as well. As we learn more, it’s clearer that Beltre may not have signed for the same reason; that Scutaro didn’t sign in 2010 for that reason; that maybe this is why Berkman didn’t sign either.
If a clubhouse atmosphere is toxic, you try to eliminate the toxicity, which is why Geren has to be considered one of the major factors here. I think this team could have competed if (1) the pitching staff stayed healthy and (2) at least two players, rather than none, had gotten off to good starts. How much of that is attributable to Geren? We can’t know, because bad play translates as bad statistics, and the team’s record is in line with its statistics.
Wait a minute.
The Matsui move was inexplicable from Day One because his decline was so evident in 2010 and because Chris Carter seemed ready to roll as a permanent DH.
His decline wasn’t evident in 2010. He had a season right at his career averages.
really? There was no drop off in Anaheim?
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
A little, but the whole league dropped too. They basically cancelled each other out.
His wRC+’s by year:
131
124
111
126
122
…58
Yeah...
58 is amazingly bad. This is why our offense is bad. Not really because they’re bad players…but they’re playing horribly.
So, as fans of the club....should we all commit suicide?
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
No. Management should be doing that for us.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Killing us?
Now that would be an unusual promotion:
Abattoir Day at the O.co!
The first 10,000 fans get slaughtered, dressed, and sold as stadium food.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking more along the lines of management hara-kiri,
but at least the Abbatoir promotion would show what management truly thinks of the fans.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Geren is only a symptom of players blowing ass
I have no idea why Young and Tony D left, or why Scutaro, Berkman, or Beltre didn’t sign here and you don’t either.
That said, you’re more right when you say this:
I think this team could have competed if (1) the pitching staff stayed healthy and (2) at least two players, rather than none, had gotten off to good starts.
As usual, this starts with injuries and ineffectiveness, both on offense and defense lately. Cahill and Gio haven’t looked great in the last few outings. Before, we were holding on due to terrific pitching, but their dropoff has really exposed our offensive shortcomings
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
That's fair.
But when you use the injuries as an annual excuse, it gets tiring. And maybe I’m the only one that feels this way, but if something (someone) is not working, try something different.
I'm here to talk about the past.
We don't know why they left, or didn't come
But I don’t recall situations in which so many players simply wouldn’t play for a team that looked like a contender. And the Young and Tony D situations looked odd at the time: Tony D demoted from bench coach; a successful pitching coach suddenly deciding to move on like Young did. When you couple those facts with what we’re hearing in terms of rumors, suddenly the package fits together. We don’t know, of course, but we do have inference.
Just as we have inference from looking at Matsui’s numbers that there was a slight power fall-off last year, and we also know that such fall-offs are often a sign of further decline, much of which is quite immediate. What we do know about Matsui is this: He hit 21 HR for the Angels last year. Given the Coliseum and his age, that number was bound to drop. So here’s the question: why bring in an aging DH who won’t even hit 20 HR when the team desperately needs power in the line-up?
Again, don't know why Young left
Although it’s probably fair to say that Boston’s pitching coach is more prestigious than being Oakland’s pitching coach.
Grousing about Matsui is legitimate. I wasn’t a fan, myself. I just hoped he still had something left, which turns out to not be true.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
It's legitimate to speculate
The rumors have been flying around concerning Geren. People who claim to have spoken with various folks in the organization (and I’m singling out Nico here) pretty much have indicated that what I’ve said has real possibility.
What I don’t like is that we, as fans, have to act as Kremlinologists here because the organization has become so tight-lipped about everything. I still recall the early days in Beane’s front office when we heard real honesty and not PR crap.
I’d also add, regarding the Front Office, that a minor league system ranked 28th in baseball really does not attest to brilliance. My real complaint about the A’s isn’t Geren — though he’s a symptom of problems — but that this organization simply isn’t very good any more.
Fair
Although I’m not sure how much to take stock in the org rankings. Part of it is that Cahill, Gio, and Anderson have all “graduated” in the last 3 years, and low guys are too low to make a difference.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
You would think..
That after three years those players who were very low three years ago would’ve come up the ranks and raised the organizational standing. But they didn’t - and, of course, of the three you mention, only one came up through the organization.
Yeah, we had a top 3 farm system just a year and a half ago.
But then we graduated a ton, and we also had a bunch of prospects get hurt and/or suck.
I'm pretty sure he put some kind of hex on us
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Or he might have understood what was going to happen here,
and decided to save his soul instead.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
by Tutu-late on Jun 8, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, we sometimes just need to run from the devil...
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
The problem with blowing this whole thing up (emphasis on whole)
Is that it’s just as likely 2-3 years down the road that the team is in the exact same position as it is winning the division. And by then, we’ll need to be really good really fast before Cahill and Gio leave for free agency, and whatever is left of BA does the same. Given that, we might as well try to win with as many spare parts as possible.
I’m okay trading away most of the offense save for Willingham, who we might as well try and re-sign. Tank this year, get a good pick, then rebuild the offense with Carter, Taylor, Cardenas, Weeks, and a bunch of cheap FAs next year.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
If you're really blowing up the WHOLE thing, Cahill and Gio won't be here
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 7:25 AM PDT up reply actions
If the WHOLE thing gets blown up, this team isn't going to contend before 2016 at earliest.
I don’t know if they’ll survive that long.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
by "they," I mean the club, not Cahill and Gio,
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't go that far. I'd aim for 2014
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions
This
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
That is overly pessimistic
The team’s can find a few pieces and content next year. They certainly have payroll flexibility to do so. Also Wolf’s is erstwhile in his desire to field a winning team (as evidenced by his insistence to trade for Holiday) over a losing one.
hmm...
We’re gonna lose a lot of players next year.
And although a lot of them suck, Willingham would have been a fine DH next year.
The guys coming up to replace them are suspect, and likely not going to be peaking next year.
Braden’s probably not going to recover from his surgery, because few do recover from shoulder capsule surgery, and it’s looking more and more like Anderson’s going to be out until 2013.
Maybe 2013 could be decent if Carter, Taylor, Weeks, Cardenas, Green, and Recker are ALL playing with positive WAR, with a healthy Anderson and Cahill and some decent rotation filler. However, that’s A LOT to ask, let alone expect.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I never really wanted him in the first place
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 7:25 AM PDT up reply actions
then again, can you imagine how much more painful this season would have been without him?
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Meh. Maybe a one game difference....maybe not even that.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Sure, one, maybe two games tops...
but nothing relieves pain like a big fly, and Willingham’s providing the entertainment value of big flies this season.
Too bad the entertainment value doesn’t quite translate to wins.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
His defense is pretty terrible. There's a good chance Sweeney would have been better.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions
You're taking away the only threat of power on this whole club
The A’s put a lot of runners on base, and Willingham is the only guy that drives them in. As the A’s continue to drag their asses, year after year, I’m becoming more and more convinced that the dogma that “the best thing a player can do is not make an out” is wrong. The best thing a team can do is score runs. Willingham drives in runs. When you’re down 3-0, he’s the ONLY guy on the team right now who, other than on a terrible mistake pitch, can tie the game.
Meh. We can put Carter at DH and get that.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions
That might not be a good assumption
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
this.
Im not sure why people think he will really hit.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I think he'll probably hit, but he could certainly fail miserably.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Would we notice the difference? What's Matsui hitting again?
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
And that's all well and good for entertainment value, of course.
But the A’s wouldn’t have been down 3-0 in the first place if Willingham had been fast enough to catch the 3 run double in the gap.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions
haha...
Willingham is SLOW out there.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Not slow, just doesn't take great lines.
He’s usually good for a handful of stolen bases every year.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
We must be watching different players.
Willingham is hella slow. The only decent thing about him defensively is that he can throw fairly well.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Then he's the slowest player I know
whose is 28 for 35 in career stolen bases, averaging 5 per year before this season (with another 3 for 3 this year already.)
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
career stats don't say much about the current state of his legs and speed.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
You're basing his speed off the fact that he steals 5 bases a year?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
by mikev on Jun 8, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think he is slow.
I also think he takes poor routes to the ball.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I think both of those statements are true.
and on top of that, I think he’s been jaking it in the field occasionally.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Yes.
Slow w/good routes can make for a good fielder. Bad routes suck all the way around.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Sure.
Take Kotsay for example. He wasn’t what I would call a fast runner, but he was a fantastic CF.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Heh
I actually had him in mind when I wrote that.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Loved that dude.
I was so stoked when we got him. I remember following him a little bit in the College World Series when he was at Fullerton
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
I don't think you can be outright slow though
You need at least above average speed to be a good CF. And there’s a pretty high correlation between speed and OF defense
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Right.
To a point, I mean. Speed can make up for a lot of other subpar outfield tools (Hello Eric Byrnes and Rajai Davis)
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
A person who is truly slow is unlikely to do that.
He certainly isn’t fast, and his stolen bases probably have at least as much to do with being a good baserunner. Has stolen eight in a year twice, and last year did so without getting caught. That doesn’t sound like someone who simply just can’t run.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
He's probably a smart baserunner
like Chavez was — another guy who wasn’t fast, but pretty much had a green light whenever he wanted because he was smart about it.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Until he started falling apart, anyway.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
It was also a knee surgery ago.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Doing what? Failing the eye test? Getting caught in 75% of his steals? Having a Speed Score of 3? Having a dreadful UZR? Costing the team 1.3 runs from Baserunning?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Thats suppose to be caught in 25%. Basically break even yes.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll leave the rest of the tiny sample stuff based on large sample metrics you posted
to speak from themselves, since you would laugh anyone else who posted them out of the building.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Not when there is a surgery inbetween
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
This.
Mikev with some stats truth.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah thats also something I said in the offseason that I would like to take credit for.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
How many cookies is that for you? I'd like to donate out of the fat check I get here.
I'm here to talk about the past.
Being right is awesome, but I super appreciate that you want to also give me cookies!
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's your pain reliever, then...

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
But can he hit? What's his UZR?
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but we would still have Henry 101!
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I'm following his career with the Nats. He's awesome again.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
He sure is fun to watch.
When he is off his game, it’s bad. But when he is on, it’s sick!
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
I still think he can be a starter if they're willing to let him throw 130 pitches per game
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions
We need to do this with FDLS
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
I can see letting him build up arm strength after surgery but in 2012 definitely
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
They did it with Outman
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
I'm all for it
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
they didn't make outman a reliever though.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Right, that's what I meant.
I guess it wasn’t very clear how I said that.
Plenty of pitchers come back from TJ surgery and go straight back to starting as opposed to relieving first.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
He had TJS in 08. Its aready been two plus years.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
He seems like a young Koufax.
Wild as hell, but WOW! If he can just get it all together!
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Even if he stays wild, you can do a lot worse than a guy striking out
11/9 and BB 5/9. His career SIERA is 3.46 in the majors.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions
2011 WAR
Willingham 0.4
Rodriguez 0.2
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions
And that power arm puts more fear in the opposition, than Josh's bat does.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Mainly fear for their lives
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions
At least they won't be digging in the way they are against our current staff.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Fear is both irrelevant and based off of fan's psychoanaylsis
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes but it's scary
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Just ask Kruk about facing The Big Unit.
Fear is real.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Or Dykstra about facing the SEC
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or when a batter's knees buckle when Ryan threw a curve at their midsection.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Yes, he's the Cust of pitching
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions
He's the only player worth a crap on offense right now
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
According to Only
hes the only thing on this team that other execs want.
So hopefully yes.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I think a lot of the frustration is the "running in place" feeling
for the last 4 or 5 years. And the fact that many of the New Toys (i.e., the young pitchers, which is where the team’s young talent is) have ended up broken pretty quickly.
If the team were bad but Weeks, Cardenas, Carter, Taylor were playing in the bigs and looking promising, then it would be fun to watch them. But watching a team of guys in their prime years not win isn’t particularly compelling. And watching it for year after year is very irritating.
As far as Wolff and Beane are concerned…maybe they’re running the team like a minnow in a top football league, primarily aiming to avoid relegation (not that that exists in MLB, obviously), and hoping to catch lighting in a bottle every decade or so and grab some silverware somehow. But basically feeling okay about ending up as “mid-table” club.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I'm not sure why they'd want to end up mid-table when the fanbase has consistently shown
the same indifference for mid-table as for last place. A’s have only drawn even average attendance when they’re winning. The incentives should be to take risks and win big or lose big, since the reward for middling performance is the same as the reward for losing big.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Which is what Billy Beane is on record as wanting to avoid as well
though he didn’t put it in the context of attendance. He’s achieved exactly what he was trying to avoid.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Yes
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 7:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Yet Frost has talked about the teams efforts to feild just a 500 club.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not impressed with Forst at all
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm fine with a "mid-table club"
Obviously I’d like better. But this year looks to be a 70-92 thing, probably the fifth or so worst team in baseball. That’s not mid-table.
I think the Beane era has run its course. The farm system looks like a meh. The talent pipeline is mediocre, and payroll considerations mean that the A’s will never compete for quality free agents. I think the A’s are looking at lousy hitting for the next few years. Basically, it you have a lower 10 payroll and average management quality, you are in the end going to have a lower 10 team on average over time. The A’s defied the odds for a nice run. Now, they’re a bit below where they should be.
The Wolff era should have never started in the first place. MLB should administer the equivalent to a citizenship test to prospective owners. They need to be fans enough to know some baseball history and the rules of the game. If they don’t pass, they don’t get to own a team, billions or no.
Unfortunately, Bugsy Selig prevented a real baseball consortium from buying the A's.
Instead, he approved the one run by his sorority sister, Wolfe.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Yeah, if Reggie Jackson were running this team,
he might be running them into the ground, but at least he’d be passionate and controversial and entertaining while doing it, unlike the current foam peanuts.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
And the business sense of Bob P.( the owner of Savemart, and the Modesto baseball team),
would keep them viable financially.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
If Reggie Jackson were running the team they would play in Las Vegas.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm an NRAF. I don't give a shit where they play as long as they win.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm running out of recs.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
by OldhamA on Jun 8, 2011 8:38 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
here's one more.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Losing eight in a row...
…sounds better than losing fourteen out of seventeen.
My dog has assured me of a victory tonight...
…he has also said that I should enjoy it, because they will be few and far between.
Between naps he has wise observations...
…my dog, that is – not Geren.
Well, at least he is watching out for your wellbeing
That is the mark of a man’s best friend
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Exactly...
…as long as I’m happy he has a lap to sleep on and an extra source for cookies.
I'm growing tired of Monty's blatant Giants homerism
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
Well the guy who created this site said on Facebook yesterday that Geren isn't going to last much longer. So it must be true.
I'm here to talk about the past.
well, I hope he has more inside information than the rest of us.
My evil side wants this losing streak to continue until Geren gets fired.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
If Nico does, then he must, too
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Not Nico, Blez.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Gaijin, that would be interesting ..
just too see what happens …
ya know what i'am say'in .....
He may or may not but it seemed more of an opinon than actual knowledge.
I'm here to talk about the past.
that's too bad.
I’d love to see Geren gone at the end of the road trip.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
or, at least sent to the the wrong airline gate.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Has a name
or is it like Beetljuice, say the name three times and he shows up?
Blez!
Blez!
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Wolff is the new George Bush
Wolff’s “Geren is outstanding” comment really has become the baseball version of Bush’s “Brownie you’re doing a heckuva job”
It shows such detachment that it really does destroy any credibility the guy may have had left. If Geren is doing such a great job and the team has still lost 8 straight, then what does that say about Billy’s players? I mean someone has to be held responsible in all of this.
Truthfully I’d lay about 80% of this in Beane’s lap… but since we know he’s not going anywhere might as well address the other 20%. To sit back and do nothing is basically telling the fans “we don’t care what you think” Seriously can you imagine a franchise like New York, Philly or Boston going into a season with high expectations, then having the manger get called out by one of his own players, then proceed to lose 11 of the next 14 and still keep his job? This shit is just so disrespectful to the franchise and the fan base I can hardly
Geren is doing great !!
were only 8 games under .500, if Geren keeps this up, he will be Wolff’s shining light worth another contract extension !!
Wolff, sell the A’s to somebody who cares and buy the Dodgers …
ya know what i'am say'in .....
It's unfortunate that there aren't more Steinbrenners and Cubans out there.
I’m tired of sports teams being businesses expected to profit in a portfolio, rather than as the blatant vanity investments they should be.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Steinbrenner's investors profited just fine....a lot better than Wolff's investors
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah, but that was due to the market.
I think that if Steinbrenner had bought the Indians instead, like he wanted in the first place, he would have lost hundreds of millions of dollars in the long run, and run the team similar to how he ran the Yankees.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I find it interesting that George only invested $8M of his own money to buy the Yankees.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
That was still enough to become a majority owner.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
that was a lot more money back in the day
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think that at all. Jacobs did just fine in Cleveland.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Jacobs was from the 90's.
If Steinbrenner had bought the Indians, it would have been in 1972.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes but the point is that Cleveland has been a perfectly viable market
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh... I wasn't trying to make any points,
other than it’s my opinion that Steinbrenner was gonna spend a fuckton of money as an owner to soothe his ego, whether he had that much money coming in or not.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
We don't know that.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Cleveland is not a viable market
Its one of the smallest in baseball. The reason they did so well in the 1990s was that the city enjoyed an economic renaissance (very much so over), the Browns left town (leaving a sporting alternative gap – the late 90s weren’t kind to the Cavs) and a new stadium. Now with alternatives and a bad economy they draw poorly (remember worse than Oakland last year) and this years fast start notwithstanding, struggle to sign anyone. Their big offseasona cquisitions being O-Cab, Travis Buck, Chad Durbin and Austin Kearns.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Wow, it's actually shrunk over the past 10 years. It used to be around 12th
in population and is now around 28th. Amazing.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I live in Columbus but work in Cleveland 3 days a week
It is amazing the change. Detroit gets all the attention (my hometown ironically) but Cleveland’s shrinking unlike Detroits is also in the suburbs (I think Detroit’s suburbs are losing but not at a rate like Cleveland’s). The whole area is massively dropping population it is unbelievable.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Ohio as a whole is, no?
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Erm...
Steinbrenner and Cuban make money hand over fist, though. The Yankees revenue is something like TWICE what the next highest team is.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
It's interesting to compare the A's to the Raiders.
Say what you like about the tenets of Al Davis, at least its an ethos he cares about winning ;-)
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
If it were up to me, sports would be a religion, and bad managers wouldn't be fired; they'd be killed or forced to commit ritual suicide.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Which religion kills its managers/
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Why, the church of Klingon Baseball, of course!
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually....
…the Mesoamerican Ballgame pretty much fits the bill.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
This is the first year in a while that we started the season with a team that many thought would contend
I guess since the Holliday season. The fact that we are at the low point of the season (I hope we don’t have another 8-game+ losing streak) has caused all of us to search for reasons why.
Some of us basically are saying, I never thought this team could contend, and we are seeing the fruits of a badly constructed team.
Others are blaming the manager for taking a decently constructed team and sucking the life out of it.
Others are blaming the offense for sucking, which, when they suck that bad, makes it hard for the manager to get blood out of a stone.
Lastly some are noting that losing 3 SPs in such a short span is killing us.
Firing Geren might solve the life in the clubhouse problem. But if the offense and SP stays horrible, we will keep losing, and that lift from Geren going will be very temporary. The fun clubhouse atmosphere is unsustainable in an environment where your team isn’t hitting or pitching well.
I am happy with the recent moves by the front office (sending down Kouz, bringing up Sizemore, Rosales, and Weeks, bringing up Moscoso). If there is a sign that they care, this is it. They are looking for a way to jumpstart the team and address this rash of injuries we’ve had. Firing a manager amidst this turmoil doesn’t seem like the best move.
I am sure they are exploring the nuclear option (blowing up the team and giving up on this year and next year, and maybe 2013). I am also sure that they are exploring ways to acquire talented major league players (or find some from our AAA) and salvage this season.
I’m happy that they have made some moves, done a minor shakeup. Let’s see what the kids do and we’ll take it from there. Firing Geren in the middle of this flurry of moves seems stupid.
by Billy Frijoles on Jun 8, 2011 11:48 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
You really think this "minor shakeup" will have any meaningful impact?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
not sure about the impact
But I like the fact that something is being done. Anything beats tired old “Kouz will turn this around” talk and other bullshit. Them calling up 3 guys from AAA is at least a “we know we have a problem, we are looking for solutions, but in the interim we are not going to put up with the same old crappy hitters day in and day out”. They might be new crappy hitters, but at least they are trying to do something.
Also, you can blow up the team whenever you want, midseason, offseason, whenever the best offers present themselves. Not necessary to trade every useful player in the span of a week. Take your time on that front. There is no desperation to do that immediately. If the team continues its suckfest, bigger moves will be made.
Will the minor shakeup magically make Anderson, Ross, and McCarthy healthy? Of course not. Will it make Pennington learn how to hit .300 or Barton learn how to hit 20 jacks? Nope.
But it sends a message that we are prepared to do what it takes to improve the team, including optioning a guy who hasn’t sniffed AAA since 2006.
I have a reason to watch now. I hope Jemile turns Ellis into Wally Pipp.
by Billy Frijoles on Jun 8, 2011 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I like that you said something positive
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
After Drafting a "Sheffield" (high schooler out of GA I am assuming is Gary's kid) in the 49th round
the A’s use pick 50 to take a RHP from Cypress JC named……
Travis Pitcher
Put a bird on it
That's even better than Grant Balfour and Bob Walk
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
They also drafted Brett Geren.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Who, according to Bryan, hit .229 at San Ramon High School...
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
starting catcher when Zuk goes down next week!
No untoward nepotism or crony-tastic favoritism-of-opportunity in THIS franchise!!! This franchise is by the numbers right down the line, nothing to see here folks!
Short of announcing “Dress As An Empty Seat Night” as a real Coliseum promotion, I’m not sure this ownership could be more removed from this planet in terms of thinking about how their customer base is feeling and acting at all accordingly.
"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto
by emperor nobody on Jun 8, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Do we really care about a guy that will probably be organizational filler?
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
no
it’s the pattern and the attitude that we little people who actually patronize this business… that it just doesn’t matter to them what the appearance of what they do will make us think. It’s almost a business anti-strategy in a way, and the last two years taking Geren’s sons when they clearly will never play in MLB is just more fuel, however frivolous, to that fire for me.
"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto
by emperor nobody on Jun 8, 2011 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
only 100 people or so who post here regularly know or care about his son being drafted
Plus, it’s not like MLB is nepotism-free. I’m sure all the teams picked someone this year as a favor to someone else in the organization.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh come on.
We didn’t sign the first one, and we won’t sign the second. It means absolutely nothing.
It was a high enough draft # where it is meaningful
Townsend was a bit peeved about it on his radio show.
Pick #1276?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
out of over 1500 picks overall?
I wouldn’t be surprised if, after the first 1000 players picked all the GMs and front office folks just set their computers to “Auto-Pick” and head over to In-n-Out for burgers.
I hear In-n-Out is pretty overrated
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
by elcroata on Jun 8, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
NO! BAD CROATIAN! NO!
[whaps elcroata across snout with rolled up newspaper]
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, I agree with elcroata.
Their fries suck
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Bratkartoffeln are better than fries, anyway
And so is Rösti
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
see what you've started?
We’ll be eating deep-fried rabbit skin soon and dipping it in mayonnaise!
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
It would still be better than what In-n-Out has to offer!
[searches Internet to find out what the hell In-n-Out is]
[falls asleep]
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
The name is "In-N-Out Burger"
If you remove the “B” and “r”…
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
FRIES ARE NOT BURGERS, TUTU!
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Funny, I've heard the same about In-n-Out meat
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
twss
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I GO FOR THE ENTIRE MEAL, LB!
I see no reason to have to make two stops, just for a fast-food meal.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
But if the burgers are better here and the fries are better there....
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
But I already have to make a second stop a Baskin-Robbins for my Chocolate Chip shake.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
hmmm....
[light bulb]
Maybe we should open our own restaurant! Chickie’s in charge of the burgers! Um, you n me can figure out fries and shakes.
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Now THAT is a business to invest in!
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Get them well done.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
did you hear when I talked to CT about that?
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
No :(
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
well...
They gave me some “well done” fries in Petaluma last week. They were most likely a little burned. I’m not sure it was a fair comparison—I hadn’t asked for well done. But they were pretty bad.
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
This this this
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions
meaningful as in he's a real person, sure
Otherwise, not really.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
This
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2011 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I mean
At least we didn’t draft a guy who is paralyzed
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Though paralysis would put the prospect to the top of our organizational list
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Anyone who is picked at that spot has a very zero-like chance to play in MLB
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
Its not really untoward
its a common practice and a nice thing to do. Not a lot of stars come from the 45th round.
Put a bird on it
So basically it's like Keogh's kid and he'll never do anything.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Catfish Stew guy pointed out that the A's drafted Howe and Macha's kids, too.
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes and Ozzie Canseco actually played for the team.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I seem to remember him playing some meaningful games for us.
Could be wrong though…
[ducks]
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
that's right!
this is the second one in a row! [[forehead slap]]
"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto
by emperor nobody on Jun 8, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
come on, its what all teams do with their last picks
Mike Piazza was someone’s nephew, that was the only reason he was drafted (I think 51st round or so).
by Billy Frijoles on Jun 8, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Tommy Lasorda's, right?
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 8, 2011 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
thank you for correcting my too lazy to look up wikipedia ass.
by Billy Frijoles on Jun 8, 2011 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Heh
Piazza being only future HOF I personally know, I had to step in…
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
No, but I could bring some of the current A's and leave them there
against a small fee…
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
Would be a cool conversation:
Matsui: I’m kind of scared of this place
Me: Imagine how it’s gonna be for me returning all alone!
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
by elcroata on Jun 8, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
funny and cold.
definitely QOTM material if QOTMbot ever gets out of the shop.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I know
but to me, that kind of pattern is still disturbing… I mean, here’s a franchise where the whole world of it is abuzz with complaint about Geren and the cronyism and hooking up your friends and they take Geren’s son for the second year in a row. It’s just further fuel to the fire to me as relates to the total tone-deafness this regime has toward what its customers might feel about any given thing they do, is all.
"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto
by emperor nobody on Jun 8, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I kind of disagree.
It shows the organization has a family consideration in picks that matter less than nothing. It’s nice in a way.
fair enough
if it was me, I’d try to avoid the appearance of any nepotism at this juncture, given the circumstances.
"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto
by emperor nobody on Jun 8, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
What if it was Rickey Henderson's son?
(if RH had a son) You’d praise the selection I’d wager. I think you are criticizing the pick because you don’t like Geren.
Rickey Henderson isn't on the hot seat on a national stage right now, though.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Jayson Stark wrote about the drama in his national column yesterday.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
One bullet point, one line, in a list of many miscellaneous points.
As the A’s losing streak hits seven, it’s safe to say that Bob Geren has zoomed to the top of the “First Manager to Get Fired” charts.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings110607
Let's keep blowing on that spark and see if it becomes a fire.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Or knows who Geren is to start with
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
It's nothing. Teams do this all the time. It's the 51st friggin' round for godsakes, and he's going to go to college anyway.
Quit looking for the overarching conspiracy when there are way more plausable innocuous reasons.
by LoneStranger on Jun 8, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
The practice needs to end.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't see where it's a problem. If they guys were good, then they'd be drafted higher, and potentially by other teams.
I think the fact that these guys go so low is because the teams know they’re not any good. There is probably some custom where if a kid sucks and he’s in the draft and he’s a son of someone big on a team, they just let that team have them. Then they get to have their picture taken with their dads and family wearing the cap and the jersey or whatever so they can hang it up on the wall when they’re out of baseball in a couple years.
Then they should raffle off the pick to loyal fans for charity, rather than give it to sons of employees for nothing.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Those loyal fans would probably pick Geren's son on name recognition alone
However small it is.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
If I'm not actually expecting the pick to sign or play,
I’d pick 67M. I’d rather waste a foam peanut draft pick on the team’s most loyal fan, rather than a soon-to-be-ex-employee’s kid.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
And Boras's son
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jun 8, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Bastard better give us a break when we bid
on the next Beltre.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jun 8, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep, pick 1186.
Round 39. The Cardinals drafted him out of high school in Round 35 three years ago, but didn’t sign him.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jun 8, 2011 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Brewers got the younger son,
Trent. A’s got the older one.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jun 8, 2011 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jun 8, 2011 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
That is awesome
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
You know reading this thread really points out how we all respond to stress.
It seems like several posters are turning on each other. It isn’t going to make the A’s any better to do that. Several people are getting offended and that really does degrade the site.
This is a good point
especially since we all know perfectly well that this is all Pam’s fault.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
The Far East is under her spell now...
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Well, anything east of the Mississippi is Far east to me
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
1 week ago
1 week ago the A’s looked ok. Not enough hitting, but still in the hunt. Today the season is bleak.
The season is not over yet. We could hypothetically (best case scenario) be 2 games out (+ or -) on Aug. 1*. This is dependent upon a number of factors: The pitching must regain normalcy. We have to find a way to produce (on avg) 5 more runs a week in addition to the offense we had prior to our losing streaks. Texas should be due for a bit of a slide, and Seattle can’t possibly keep up what they are doing. I started my calculations from 2 days ago. Everything has followed to form, except for the A’s losing 2 in Baltimore (1 loss was my projected figure). We should win today. Let’s do this.
*Best case scenario. Worst case scenario, with Texas winning their projected Max and Oak losing their projected Max, would be approx. 12 games out, but with 2 months to play.
by player20 on Jun 8, 2011 2:18 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Exactly how does our pitching regain normalcy
when 60% of normalcy is injured?
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jun 8, 2011 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Cramer DFA?
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
That's good. He's got some unfinished arguments upthread to tie up.
"Note to self, do not carve marionettes out of meat, sometimes they accidentally become big league managers."- Kyli
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 8, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Please let Matsui be released
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmmmm....no such luck
susanslusser Susan Slusser
Geren said he might give Matsui a good stretch of playing time soon to try to get his bat going. “He’ll hit,” Geren said. #Athletics
by coffee roaster on Jun 8, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Sounds strangely simular to statements he made right before Kouz was optioned.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Sounds like that
Give him a couple of weeks (or less if the team continues to lose) and then, if there isn’t a major breakthrough, he’s gone.
Playing time
on a different club, however.
He’ll go all Giambi on us, and have his swan song in a different uniform.
Don't care anymore
He doesn’t hit for us
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Notice how he didn't mention that the playing time would be with the A's... ;-)
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 8, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Does Geren count?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
He better wear the gold-alts
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jun 8, 2011 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, my best case scenario should have read 2 games over (+ or -) on Aug. 1.
by player20 on Jun 8, 2011 2:23 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Advice
Below every post is a reply button. You should use it, or else the threads become fragmented and impossible to follow. As this one already is.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jun 8, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Remember, this is all hypothetical. If there is one thing the A’s are good at, it is finding pitching. That is actually the least of my worries. I have a lot of confidence in the pitching, even though I might not even know who is starting on a particular day. The offense, on the other hand…
by player20 on Jun 8, 2011 2:28 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
They don't have an infinite supply
of minor leaguers who are capable of starting. They are going through them at rapid rate.
My own solution...
Keep Willingham and make a decision at the end of the year to either extend or, if he’s a Type A free agent, take the draft pick. Move Crisp and DeJesus and bring up Taylor and Cardenas. Release Matsui and bring up Carter once he’s actually hitting the ball. The Ellis situation depends on the work of Weeks and Sizemore, and I wouldn’t consider a final decision at this time. I’d also consider trading Powell and bringing up Recker.
Suzuki would have way, way more trade value than Powell.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Let's trade the pop-up king.
Fire Bob Geren.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2011 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
He would actually be the first person I would trade right now
I mean, unless someone is willing to give up a fuck you type of deal for Anderson.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
No one's going to take a pitcher needing TJ
Powell can’t play every day. Recker is a long-shot. Donaldson is a bust. Suzuki is at this point the only person who can catch daily who is in the system. Besides, the pitchers really like him, and two years down the road, if people are healthy and Taylor and Carter both make the transition to the majors, the team will need him to contend.
Suzuki and Pennington are both decent professional ballplayers who will complement stars on any staff. They’re not stars themselves but both could be cornerstones of winning teams. I wouldn’t consider trading either.
Donaldson is a bust?
This is news.
Pitchers like Suzuki? They like Powell, too. They also liked Kendall, Damian Miller, Ramon Hernandez, and Adam Melhuse.
The pitchers are going to keep being good pitchers regardless of who their catcher is, and I’m pretty sure some combination of Powell, Recker, and Donaldson could put up a .670 OPS in the bigs right now.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
I heard they didn't like Damian Miller
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
That's because Damian is Satan's spawn
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
ha, you mention one of my pet peeves
I swear, 95% of the catchers in the league “make their pitchers better”. It’s like the standard cliche to say, yes, this guy sucks at hitting, but we’ll keep him around anyway.
Like a participation trophy or some shit like that.
95% of catchers make their pitchers better, that's true.
It’s because the backstop is only better than 5% of the catchers out there.
Donaldson
I’m looking at his minor league stats now and while he’s got a little power, he can’t hit for average and strikes out way too much. His brief time in Oakland last year was unimpressive. And he’ll be 26 next winter.
Maybe if you trade Powell and bring up Donaldson and give him another chance, he’ll prove himself a major leaguer and then Suzuki becomes trade-able. But I don’t think Recker or Donaldson at this point is ready to take over a starting catcher job in the majors, and Powell can’t do it either.
I don't think Powell has any trade value
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 8, 2011 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Suzuki can't hit for average either.
So what?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Suzuki can't hit for major league average
Donaldson can’t hit for minor league average.
You mean like to clear a 40 man roster spot?
I don’t know.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Good to see Rosales back in there. Barring injury, of course, every lineup should have either or both coco and Rosales from now on.
by player20 on Jun 8, 2011 4:06 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
The 2 out hit is becoming a staple of the 2011 Athletics.
by player20 on Jun 8, 2011 4:11 PM PDT via mobile reply actions

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