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If the Trade Deadline Was Two Days From Now, What Would You Do?

Hi friends! I am promoting this post by whizdad (father of the epically collegiate whizkid) because I like the theme and it seems appropriate... we wanna hear what you'd do if this were a month from now and the time was running out to make deals.  Enjoy the day off and let's have your comments and discussions below as you get those GM shoes on your feet and decide if you're a buyer, a seller or maybe even a little of both.  Thanks!!!    -EN

 

OK, imagine it's nearing the end of July and the A's are still 5-6 games out.  Given today's perspective, what would you do?  Are you buying or selling?  Let's hear what you do when you put your GM hat on?

Given that between now and then, McCarthy, Ross and maybe Harden will be in the rotation, do you try to pick up another starter?  Do you give Ellis the courtesy of going to a true pennant contender knowing his playing time is limited at best and blocking Carter at first base?  Do you try to find a new first baseman or do you give Carter his shot?  Do you keep Powell or see if Recker has any major league potential? Do you dangle Coco because Sweeney plays a darned fine CF and we're (relatively) stacked with outfielders?  Do you sell a reliever?  Who's untouchable?  Who would you trade for a A league reliever just to get rid of them.  (And, no, we already got rid of OldBob so he's not eligible.)

Only ground rule for this discussion: you cannot, under any circumstances, bring back Jack Cust.

So Mr./Ms. GM, what would you do?

Star-divide

I'll start off by saying I think Carter needs to get his shot and I'm really curious about Recker's potential.  I've seen him in spring training for several years now and he could be playing middle linebacker in the NFL.  He appears to be tearing up the PCL (though Donaldson played in the game I saw). 

Do not touch list: any of our starting pitchers, Pennington, Weeks.

Available: Fuentes, Fuentes, maybe Wuertz, Powell, Fuentes and DeJesus.

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I cry.

If you'll excuse me, all of you, I'm going to go tearily spill my heart out to my only friend, the water heater. --danmerqury

by MissOakland on Jun 26, 2011 4:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Do I get Billy's salary?

And do I get fired if I do it wrong?

Then I make some minor moves that move the peas around under the shells, and go home.

by MobiusKlein on Jun 27, 2011 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know.

I have to decide first if I’m sad because I don’t want anyone to leave or because I don’t think anybody will leave.

If you'll excuse me, all of you, I'm going to go tearily spill my heart out to my only friend, the water heater. --danmerqury

by MissOakland on Jun 27, 2011 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would call the Rockies and offer them a trade of Michael Taylor

for Huston Street and Carlos Gonzalez…

And Barton for Giambi!

Every man for himself...

by MMunoz33 on Jun 27, 2011 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Really?

Suggesting a Barton trade to ME?! [tears]

If you'll excuse me, all of you, I'm going to go tearily spill my heart out to my only friend, the water heater. --danmerqury

by MissOakland on Jun 28, 2011 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would do like "The Omen," remember that scene with Damian's nanny?

I would scale Mount Davis during a game, get up to the top with a long length of rope and a bullhorn in hand. Then I would fashion a makeshift noose from the rope, tie it around my neck, and shout through the bullhorn to the assembled, stunned crowd:

“IT’S ALL FOR YOU, BILLY BEANE!!!!!”

Then I’d jump and on the way down, just before the rope snapped my neck like a springtime twig and left me dangling like low-hanging Strange Fruit in front of the CF batter’s eye, I would scream “GET US HANLEY RAMIREEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZ!!!!” as loud as I could for my last words on Earth.

"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto

by emperor nobody on Jun 26, 2011 4:47 PM PDT reply actions  

If you were going to take the dive...

Could you at least ask for Jose Reyes instead???

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 26, 2011 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

or Tulo

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Jun 26, 2011 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

strange fruit indeed

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Jun 27, 2011 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Haunting words....

Whose were they? I remember the quote and the circumstances, but I can’t recall who it’s attributed to.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jun 27, 2011 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Strange Fruit

is a song about Southern lynchings written (by a socialist and Jewish, IIRC) NYC school teacher in the 1930s, most famously recorded by Billie Holiday.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jun 27, 2011 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love when you guys get

my macabre references.

"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto

by emperor nobody on Jun 27, 2011 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Instead of jumping from Mt. Davis

you could do the Macarena while asking for Matt Kemp…..

:)

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Jun 28, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good question

Complete sell.

Try to trade: Willingham, Crisp, Ellis, DeJesus, Wuertz, Fuentes and possibly Suzuki.

I think you play Carter a lot at first, give him a real shot, moving CoJax to f/t left field.

Untouchables: Anderson, Cahill, Gonzalez, McCarthy, Ross, Carter, Weeks, Pennington. Everyone else can be had for the right price.

by dwishinsky on Jun 26, 2011 4:57 PM PDT reply actions  

So you're ready to cash in on the season eh?

My counterpoint on Willingham and DeJesus…are they worth tossing for what you’d get in return based on their present value?

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 26, 2011 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

if the other possibility is getting nothing in return, than yes.

if Willingham can land Type A status, then I say keep him. We need more draft picks.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on Jun 26, 2011 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Prospects are more valuable than draft picks.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Jun 26, 2011 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Don't draft picks become prospects.

And if we’re getting a, let’s say, 11th round prospect, wouldn’t you rather have the 1A pick?

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on Jun 26, 2011 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not necessarily.

I mean, 11th round is stretching it, but with current prospects you have a better idea of how they’re going to pan out because you’ve got more data to look at.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Jun 26, 2011 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Prospects have a natural degradation rate.

That is, at each level X% of them fizzle out. If you get a draft pick, you’re taking one that hasn’t been tested at all. If you get a prospect, he’s already made it through the first level without going bust. That’s a big difference.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 26, 2011 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

But he's also made it through the first level without becoming a star.

For example, Mike Trout is completely unavailable to the A’s (or any team) at this point.

The one time he was available was in the 2009 draft…all the way up until the 25th pick.

The A’s don’t more guys who are “likely to make the big leagues” the way a B-level prospect is.

They need to hit home runs on a few 4-5 WAR players in the draft. They really can’t acquire those guys in trades for prospects anymore, IMO. Teams properly value their farm systems now.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 27, 2011 4:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

B prospects can become 4-5 WAR players, see Carlos Gonzalez, and I

think the A’s can acquire them if they trade Cahill and Gio

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

I guess. It would be a pretty narrow definition of a "B" prospect then.

It would have to be a toolsy guy under the age of 22 who simply hadn’t put it all together yet.

A lot of “B” prospects don’t have a ceiling even close to CarGon.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 27, 2011 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sure, if you can accurately predict the future.

But getting the 25th pick in the draft does not equal getting Mike Trout. It equals trying to guess which of the high-ceiling guys is going to turn out to be Mike Trout.

You may as well be arguing that the most practical way to earn a million dollars is to buy a lottery ticket, because that’s the one and only time it’s available to be bought for one dollar. Well, sure it is … if you know which one to pick.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

But it’s what the team needs to do in order to make the playoffs in the next five years. They need to start predicting the future much better. It’s much harder to acquire prospects via trade than it was five or ten years ago.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 27, 2011 11:34 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Is this true?

Boston has one of the smartest front offices in the league, and they gave up a B+, B, and B- (as rated by Sickels near the time of the trade) for one year of Adrian Gonzalez and the right to sign him to a market value extension. Teams get B prospects for relievers every summer.

I think you’re probably right in that teams are valuing their prospects slightly better, so it’s unlikely we’ll see anything like the Colon trade or the Haren trade again, but those were probably outliers at the time anyway. Teams are still getting good value for rental players. The A’s just don’t have any particularly interesting rental players to offer.

by thelincolndude on Jun 27, 2011 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, Texas also gave up Justin Smoak (A- prospect) + a few C, C+ level guys for half a season of Cliff Lee.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah, we agree

I just don’t see the outlier trades that we speak of, ones that helped this franchise continue its run of success, happening again.

And your second point is especially true – the A’s don’t have great rental players.

Another way of making my point is that, 5-10 years ago, it would’ve been easier to acquire a Mike Trout-quality prospect from another franchise than it is today. And a Mike Trout-quality guy (or two, or three) is what this franchise desperately needs.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 27, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

a good point would be

where are all the draft picks 1-30 or so. how many of them have fizzled? or the #25pick for the last ten years??? did they make it to the bigs and did they stick?

by heartstopper on Jun 27, 2011 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

i am not disputing the high bust rate.

Simply stating that this franchise’s hope for revival comes from doing an excellent job in the draft, which they haven’t in some time.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 27, 2011 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is this because of a poor process or poor results

Not the same thing.

If Weeks turns into an All-Star caliber player will you change your opinion?

Cardenas!!!! WoooooooooooooHOOOOOOOOO

by Mattel on Jun 27, 2011 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

We do that with pitchers, though.
"Man! That guy was a fourth-round pick of ours, but over four years our player-development system turned him into a stud at the major league level."

Tim Hudson, Dallas Braden, Andrew Bailey.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

We did that in the past too, didn't we?

With Chavez, Giambi, etc.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 27, 2011 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I read NSJ's comment to mean guys drafted in

the lower rounds, which Chavez and Giambi were not.

Both were highly touted prospects. Chavez was the #10 pick over all. Giambi was drafted in the second round.

If you’re counting first- and second-rounders, then we also developed Mulder, Zito, and Cahill.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Our best, most recent hope

For a breakout hitting prospect was probably Desme, who took the cloth, so we will never know.

I would say that some of the toolsy guys the A’s have signed recently have not performed well to date (specifically guys like: R Dixon, T House, A Shipman, J Barfield). These were all guys I recalled us being happy about drafting and taking fliers on. That said, I should acknowledge this is a small sample, and not really adequate to judge.

I wonder if Jermaine Mitchell’s season is for real.

by echerrst on Jun 28, 2011 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think comparing the Front Office to Tor and TB is a little unfair

Those are probably the two best run teams in MLB right now. It’s kind of like saying a team sucks if it isn’t as good as the Yankees or the Phillies.

AA of Tor has some kind of Svengali-like power to make other GM’s do stupid things. The Vernon Wells “trade” still boggles my mind.

Friedman is still reaping the benefits of the incredible pile of suck that TB was for so long and the attendant top draft picks it had received.

I can see soon that people will be praising the genius of Rizzo at the Nationals for the same reason. If you’re terrible for long enough then suddenly your scouts and coaches look like geniuses.

The truly badly run teams are the poor ones that never get better (Pirates) and the rich ones that are usually mediocre (Cubs).

In a way, Beane is a victim of his own ability. His ability to find reasonable players on the scrap heap is amazing. In spite of the fact that the A’s are now one of the poorest organizations in baseball he is able to field a reasonable team year after year. Not necessarily a good team, but not an embarrassing one either. But it’s those 100 game losers that get you the first pick in the draft.

The whole bit about overpaying for coaching and scouting is pretty hard to respond to since we have no idea if paying more would help or not. Certainly, ponying up the $$$ for foreign talent is worthwhile and that is being done. Ynoa didn’t work out, but that’s the way it goes with pitchers. It’s not for a lack of trying or being stingy.

Cardenas!!!! WoooooooooooooHOOOOOOOOO

by Mattel on Jun 28, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

Great post - rec'ed

At a certain point, a small market GM is judged against a moving target. Depending on your vantage point, do you (general, not specific) view the A’s success as consistently somewhat competitive, or do you view A’s success as periods of greatness followed by periods of sucktitude.

Like Mattel said, Beane has shown an ability to get average production on the cheap, however, all this has done is prohibited the A’s from tanking in order to get a high draft pick(s).

by echerrst on Jun 29, 2011 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's a very hard thing to gauge, as stars coming oiut of the later rounds are certainly not in the norm.

However, we’re not really giving ourselves the opportunity to find a later round star because we refuse to go overslot for toolsy high schoolers.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jun 28, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Their 38th rounder this, Blandino...

is a local guy. He was the CCS Player of the Year out of Saint Francis in Mountain View. He is a Stanford commit who could potentially be Stanford’s starting shortstop next year.

He’s a very good defensive shortstop, and he also led the section with 9 bombs – pretty impressive given the new bat restrictions that sapped power at the high school and college levels this year.

This is exactly the kind of guy I want them to draft in the 38th round, and exactly who I want them to pony up and sign. There’s no opportunity cost, because the college talent available in the 38th round is atrocious.

So what does it cost to break the college commitment of a kid with great talent and makeup who really, legitimately wants to go to college? (Justin Smoak). Sandwich-round money – $1.1M?

To me, that’s a good expenditure right there. If he does “blow up” in college, plays three years and becomes a college star, you will never get another chance to sign him. He goes in the high first round.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 28, 2011 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

What are the chances this guy "makes it"?

If it’s 1% then it certainly isn’t worth it.

If it’s 10% then it probably still isn’t worth the money.

If the chances are higher than that then I would think he’d have been drafted before the 38th round.

The chance that he has a MLB career isn’t enough. We need to know what that chance is.

Cardenas!!!! WoooooooooooooHOOOOOOOOO

by Mattel on Jun 28, 2011 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

If it's 10%, it's worth it to me.

Keep in mind you get 50 of these per year. And the last 25(?) are virtually wasted, because teams don’t even bother to sign the guys.

The A’s have had seasons where they decline to even make a pick after the 40th round.

Let’s say it is 10%, as you say. Now, let’s say the A’s spend their last 25 picks every year – rounds 26-50 – on high schoolers who fit the profile of Blandino – section Players of the Year (120 area high schools) with strong college commitments to good schools. The A’s offer each of them in the range of a million dollars – sandwich money. Ten out of the 25 choose to take it. Using the percentages you suggested (10%), that would mean that every draft yielded an additional cost-controlled major leaguer…and it would mean that every year the team needed to allot $10M more for the draft than it currently does.

But, to me, that would be a smart strategy, given that absolutely no free agents want to play for the Oakland A’s, and the ones who ultimately come here do so regrettably as decrepit old men, shadows of their formerly productive selves.

In the current year, for example, that model would mean that the team had one more cost-controlled impact rookie in the lineup and that they were not able to afford Matsui or Fuentes. Aw, shucks.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 28, 2011 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know whether this is a good or bad idea

for the A’s, but it sure sounds better than what they’re doing right now.

The question then becomes whether this is something you’d do only in rebuilding years or in all years. If the latter, then 2011 wouldn’t be the year to do that, because their offseason moves seemed to be made with an eye to contending in 2011

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 29, 2011 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it depends upon your market.

Given the A’s current contraints – that virtually no one wants to play for them – I’d do it every year.

Any player who has made $10-30M as a major leaguer has the luxury of being choosy with their FA destination, and grumbling about conditions that are worse than 90% of other parks. But offering an 18-year-old kid who has been poor/middle class his entire life his first million dollars is far more enticing.

But, to your point, I wouldn’t enact that strategy in, say, Philly, where every free agent seems to want to play, and that $10M could be the difference between getting Cliff Lee at a somewhat-bargain price, or Polanco, etc.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 29, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

The next question is what the breakeven

expected WAR would be, and if $1 million gets you about 0.2 WAR on the FA market, then you’d need about a 1 in 50 chance of getting 10 or more WAR from each of your signees. Of course prospects are also worth something, so it could be more like 1 in 100 chance at a 10 WAR player and a 1 in 20 at a B prospect or something like that.

At first glance it sounds pretty good to me.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 29, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would run a slight variant to NSJ's strategy

NSJ’s proposal will “flood” the system with expensive talent, talent that you do not want to give up very quickly on. This would be because the tools were evident (your scouts raved about them enough you gave him $1MM) so if production does not ex, you don’t want to cut the player too quickly. You would not have the natural attrition that occurs when the “normal” 30th round pick gets cut after year 1 because its clear he doesn’t have a future. There will be tons of headaches finding positions for players, managing rosters, etc.

I also think the estimated numbers are a little to favorable. The A’s first 10 rounds of draft picks would probably not net 10 WAR worth of value, and these are typically more highly regarded high school players. I think this would have to be lower, though not sure where it should be.

That said… I would propose to implement this strategy on a smaller scale. The A’s should target the best HS players in Northern and Central CA and scout the hell out of them. They would have geography on their side, so they could have more eyes on players and do more investigations on them. This would give them an informational advantage and create more favorable odds than 1 in 100. So they just target the 2 to 5 players that best fit their criteria, and sign them.

Example – Blandino: Perhaps the A’s could have uncovered that Blandino’s brother/dad had a big growth spurt in college, or that he has a specific quality that they love going forward. Or maybe, Blandino really only wants $700K to break his scholarship commitment.

by echerrst on Jun 29, 2011 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is a variant of what the Braves

do and sounds good to me

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 29, 2011 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, good point

Braves and Rays probably scout the South better than anyone.

Heyward, for example…there’s the great anecdote that other teams came to see him once or twice, but “all he did was walk.” But the Braves had seen him more than a dozen times.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 29, 2011 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or Matt Moore,

Drafted in the 8th round out of a Florida high school by the Rays in 2007.

Now one of the best pitching prospects in all of baseball.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 29, 2011 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

What could DDJ and Willingham fetch in a trade?

I would guess the prospect haul would be fairly unimpressive, so we may want to hold out hope Willingham just plays better.

Do you have any thoughts on what we could get for either player?

by echerrst on Jun 27, 2011 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd probably take the draft picks for Willingham unless someone bowled me over

with Jonathan Singleton or something, but I’d trade DeJesus for the highest ceiling C+ or B prospect I could get…someone like Edward Salcedo of the Braves.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

who is playing the OF again next year?

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Whoever it is, I'm pretty confident that they can top the 0.2 combined WAR

that Willingham and DeJesus have put up so far

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think you were right before that Bourn and Pence are good targets

But still, they play in a bandbox. I guess they play better defense, but you have to wonder if we’re trading for DDJ all over again.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

maybe we should go after that Brett Wallace guy

I’ve heard he’s pretty good and unlike our current array of first basemen, he can apparently hit….

oh wait….

by oakballnack on Jun 27, 2011 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol Brett Wallace and his .380 babip

totally sustainable….dude is nyet good.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

that's assuming the draft picks scheme is restored in the new CBA

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

If Carter rakes during his short stint, I say trade Willingham.

Otherwise keep him and hope for an A level compensation pick.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 27, 2011 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

who?

I have yet to see a “Carter” play for the A’s

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on Jun 28, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

We aren't going anywhere with them

But i think we might get decent stuff back for them. With the CBA changing dont want to risk holding onto them not knowing what they will be worth

by dwishinsky on Jun 26, 2011 7:41 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

EXACTLY...We've seen the ceiling for this team with these players and...

it’s not good enough.

"I don't know a (expletive) Jew who would have the balls to say that. Let me just get this straight. You don't ever tip, huh?" -- Chris Penn, from Reservoir Dogs

by salary_cap on Jun 26, 2011 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Under no circumstances should Tyson Ross be untouchable.

He’s probably one of the first guys I try to move in order to acquire a big hitter

of course he probably doesn’t have much trade value since he’s already been hurt in both of his big league seasons.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Jun 26, 2011 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah that's fair

I just think you wait on a starting pitcher who has excelled at the MLB level. I’d rather wait ti he’s arb eligible to deal him. Get what you can while he is low-cost

by dwishinsky on Jun 26, 2011 7:40 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

agreed

T-Ross should be shipped as soon as he picks up any value on the market again. If he can come back and show he’s healthy (especially since this wasn’t an arm/shoulder/elbow related injury) and he can string together a few good starts, I say ship him to the buyer with the best offer. I’d say the same for Anderson, but I don’t expect he’ll be able to prove any degree of health prior to the trade deadline.

by oakballnack on Jun 27, 2011 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think T Ross is a good fit for trade if

we’re in “buyer” (or partial “buyer”) mode. It’s looking less likely that that will be the case for us this year.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Totally agree with this.

Let him break on somebody else. Would deal BA too if someone would take him, for the same reason. Cahill and Gio are the real untouchables, because they stay healthy.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 27, 2011 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

How do "complete sell" and "untouchables" jive?

Spread the diaper in the position of the diamond with you at bat. Then fold second base down to home and set the baby on the pitcher's mound. Put first base and third together, bring up home plate and pin the three together. Of course, in case of rain, you gotta call the game and start all over again. ~Jimmy Piersal, on how to diaper a baby, 1968

by UncleLeo on Jun 26, 2011 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

At this point, SELLING is BUYING...

The A’s do not have the team that appears ready to stay in the hunt in the long haul. One of these AL West teams are going to go on a run sooner or later. The A’s need to be able to do the same, and they do not have the team to do it (doesn’t mean they won’t, it’s just unlikely). That being said, getting value for their veterans makes sense, and it can be done without cashing in on the season. Plus it gives a chance to add depth for next year when the A’s will be in better position to win. Considering the production you’re getting out of veterans that are clogging up roster space at the big league level, you are not giving up by trading the ones you can. And this way, Taylor, Carter, Miller, Donaldson — anyone who the A’s see as part of their future next year — should all come up to play everyday, and will thus be more primed to have a successful campaign next year.

"I don't know a (expletive) Jew who would have the balls to say that. Let me just get this straight. You don't ever tip, huh?" -- Chris Penn, from Reservoir Dogs

by salary_cap on Jun 26, 2011 6:41 PM PDT reply actions  

Untouchables are

Gio, Trevor, Bailey and Weeks. Don’t see Pennington. Maybe Ross. Sizemore has been very impressive

by Alvin Dark on Jun 26, 2011 7:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Sizemore Has Been A Pleasant Surprise

He is also one of the few players who has an aggressive approach, and it pays off.

by Jason James on Jun 27, 2011 4:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm?

He’s been getting more pitches in the zone than average, and yet he’s swung significantly less than average on all pitches, both in and out of the zone.

by danmerqury on Jun 27, 2011 7:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Really?

I heard that him and Weeks have been a breath of fresh air because of their aggressive approach. Then again, I don’t get many opportunities to watch or listen to games, so…

by Jason James on Jun 27, 2011 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Silly Dan

“aggressive” just means “playing well”

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Wow, you speak radiohostese!

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 27, 2011 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

The rest of the team is scuffling right now.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

CoJax has been hitting lately

so has sweeney though no different than normal

by heartstopper on Jun 27, 2011 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

He has a 596 OPS in the Bob Melvin era

He is doing the opposite of hitting. I honestly want the A’s to just eat his salary and cut his worthlessness.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep.

I have no idea how CoJack has so many people snowed, but he’s really been terrible ever since he put on an A’s uniform.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 27, 2011 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

He has people snowed because

during the off-season the hyperbolic ranting against him set expectations so absurdly low that anything better than replacement level was going to be viewed as an astounding breakthrough.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess so.

He sucks, though. Would really prefer to see him suck in Japan.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 27, 2011 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

In his defense,

He did show up “in the best shape of his life.”

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 28, 2011 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Great!

He’s the Lenny DiNardo of corner infielder/outfielders.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 28, 2011 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Lenny Dinardo was a swimmer

I doubt he can ever say “bets shape of his life” ever again

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on Jun 28, 2011 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hate the word "scuffling"

it is always used to refer to just plain bad play

by robertmelvin on Jun 27, 2011 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bailey is the kind of guy you definitely deal.

He’s going to be expensive, and we can fill his shoes both in the short term (Balfour, Ziggy) and the long term (FDLS.) He’s also an excellent candidate to break soon.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 27, 2011 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who cares if he's expensive

We have the 4th most wealthy owners in MLB! We should be making a run at Pujols.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trading Bailey would just be about the lamest thing the A's could do right now...

unless we’re talking blow up for total rebuild.

Personally, I’m not a fan of that, and hope that isn’t the case just yet.

Still fantasizing about a trade for Matt Kemp………sigh.

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Jun 28, 2011 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Trade with the Phillies for Domonic Brown.

The A’s have tons of expendable assets, and the Phillies are built to win the next 1-2 NL pennants. Brown has been very disappointing, and I don’t think the Phillies should be willing to wait around for him and see if he develops.

If the A’s send them Willingham (who will be Type A), a couple of lock-down pen guys…that’s a good start.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 26, 2011 7:15 PM PDT reply actions  

Jonathan Singleton is another good Phils hitting prospect.

Stats here.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 26, 2011 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

If Brown has been disappointing, why would we want him?

And don’t we have enough OFs?

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 26, 2011 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

His warts are what make him potentially available.

He’s young enough that he’ll potentially turn it around. And he might provide the long-term lefty power that’s needed.

The OF has significant holes beyond ’11. I see no chance of making the playoffs this year.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 27, 2011 4:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's the key.

It’s nice to be 6 games out but this lineup is terrible.

However, replying to the OP “total sell” is not an accurate phrase if you’re also saying some players are “untouchable” — a total sell would deal Cahill or Gio, because those are the guys who could get you actual value in return. If you’re saying sell all the players who aren’t very good, well ok!

My untouchables would be Weeks because he actually looks like a position player who can play baseball, Cahill and Gio because not only are they excellent but they’ve also been really healthy, and that’s it. There’s no one else where you can’t get better by trading them if someone really wants them.

I’d also look at extending/re-signing DDJ even though he’s been very disappointing. My guess is that with average luck his line against RHPs would look pretty solid and his career doesn’t suggest he should be horrible against LHPs like he’s been for some reason this year. And unlike Willingham and Crisp, he doesn’t figure to decline due to age/health in the near future. And his price tag is lowered by the fact that he’s having a bad season.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 27, 2011 6:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Even with his luck now, his line looks great against RHPs.

121 wRC+ against RHP. It’s the lefties where he has a .152 BABIP.

by danmerqury on Jun 27, 2011 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

As a platoon player?

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's a starter, both Bobs seem to have forgotten that

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's probably closer to 3

Which is better than Conor Jackson, who gets way more OF playing time than he should now that Barton is out.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree that he's closer to 3 and so do ZiPS and PECOTA

Your mileage may vary.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

watching DDJ this year in the OF...

s a bit more exciting. he has made some bad plays and simply looks awkward out in RF at times. i don’t get that from cojax and especially not sweeney

by heartstopper on Jun 27, 2011 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd take 18 WAR from my starting 9.

In this division, with our pitching that would be a pretty good team.

by Max Hartman on Jun 27, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Definitely.

The point I was making is that a 2 WAR player can be a starter on a good team, and the A’s in particular would kill for a team full of 2 WAR players.

by Max Hartman on Jun 27, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

How do you win 95 games if all your starters are 2 WAR

players? 18 WAR from your 9 starters means you’re at about 65 wins before your pitchers and bench. You’re going to need about five 5 WAR starters to have any reasonable chance at 95 wins.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

My crappy interpretation of numbers.

The A’s are on pace to be a 72 win team and produce 6 WAR (batting+fielding+baserunning). Add 12 wins to that and we’re an 84 win team. 84 wins is semi-competitive.

And I took a look at the last A’s playoff team. 18.2 (batting+fielding+base running) WAR and 18.4 pitching WAR.

by sums95 on Jun 27, 2011 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well...

Firstly a WAR is not the end all be all. We all know there is a fair amount of variance between a teams end of the year WAR and their actual wins. Secondly I don’t think 95 is the benchmark, especially in the AL west. I think 85 is competitive, especially this year. Lastly I’m not saying that in my dreams I want 18 WAR from my position players, I’m saying that would be a realistic goal for this team.

by Max Hartman on Jun 27, 2011 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

So instead of focusing on getting better players

we should set our sights lower and try to win fewer games?

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 28, 2011 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Plenty of teams make the playoffs with 2 WAR production in one or multiple spots.

Of course, those teams also have a few 6+ WAR talents.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes and they're trying to improve on the 2 WAR guys. They

don’t sign guys that project at 2 WAR to multi-year deals

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's why Philly's interested in Josh Willingham right?

And why they signed Raul Ibanez to a three year deal a year after winning the World Series?

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

should be right after winning the World Series, not a year

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

So you think that was a good idea?

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Changing the goalposts much?

Whether or not it’s a good idea to you or me is irrelevant. What’s clear is that your assertions that good, contending teams don’t start 2 WAR players and that those teams don’t sign 2 WAR players to multi year deals are completely false. Perhaps you should think about why pretty much every team doesn’t construct its roster the way you would or don’t value average players as poorly as you do.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 28, 2011 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sounds like you don't think it was a good idea

By the way it’s not true that no team constructs rosters the way I would. I like the way the Rays, Red Sox, Rangers, Yankees, Phillies, Braves and Rockies have constructed their rosters. Out of that group Ibanez, Lowe, Young, and Howard are the only contracts that fit the description of 2 WAR player in a big contract.

I doubt you object much to the roster construction of those teams either outside of those contracts.

You’re completely right in that I believe the A’s have worshipped at the altar of averageness in drafting, trades and FAs. Neither I nor the Oakland fanbase has ever placed much value on 75-82 win teams, as evidenced by their attendance during years when they won that much.

I won’t ever get excited when someone seriously suggests signing a 2 WAR player to do anything other than plug a hole on an otherwise good team. The A’s are not in that position.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 28, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

But by that logic
Neither I nor the Oakland fanbase has ever placed much value on 75-82 win teams, as evidenced by their attendance during years when they won that much.

you could argue that the fanbase doesn’t place much value on 95-102 win teams either.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 28, 2011 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

The attendance jumps after 85 wins or

so and again after playoff appearances. There isn’t much of a reward for 82 wins compared to 72 wins

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 28, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Are you talking leaguewide or

Oakland-specific attendance?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 28, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Truthfully,

we either need to win the lottery and get a cheap 5 WAR player from the draft or get a larger pay roll in order to buy some 5 WAR talent from the FA market.

If we can do that, Billy can probably fill out the roster reasonably well with 2 WAR players and pull some pitching out from thin air.

by sums95 on Jun 28, 2011 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's basically what happened with

Hudson, Mulder, Giambi, Zito, Chavez and Tejada. You had six guys who could be counted on for 25-30 WAR per year amongst them. Then you could fill out the rest of the team with decent players and get a World Series contender. Right now we don’t have the outstanding core to work with.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 28, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

.
Out of that group Ibanez, Lowe, Young, and Howard are the only contracts that fit the description of 2 WAR player in a big contract.

That’s laughably false. Other names you can add to that list include:
Jeter
Rivera
Burnett
Soriano
Uggla
C. Jones
McLouth
Lackey
Drew
Matsuzaka
Papelbon
Blanton
Lidge
…and perhaps Beltre since you’ve gone on record saying that you don’t believe he’ll be a 4 WAR player a couple years from now

My assertion that teams don’t build teams the way you would is based on your two premises that 1) good teams don’t start 2 WAR players 2) good teams don’t have 2 WAR talents locked up in hefty contracts. Even those teams you listed as preferable to you in terms of their roster construction don’t fit this bill. So either your premises are wrong or overgeneralized, or there are indeed no teams that construct teams the way you would.

The team that comes closest to matching these premises are the Rays in that they don’t seem to have 2 WAR players locked up to hefty contracts. However, they’ve had plenty of 2 WAR starting production. Just looking at this year and last, they’ve received 2 WAR production from starting players such as Jaso, Damon, Rodriguez, Kotchman, Bartlett, Pena, and of course the failed Dan Johnson experiment. And they seem to have done just fine in terms of contending in the league’s toughest division.

I agree that the A’s have had a conservative focus on the draft and seem to overvalue mediocre – average players whether by choice, bad luck, or market restrictions. But proliferation of average isn’t the problem with the A’s. The A’s problem is that they have very few average players period and a whole lot of really bad players/really bad production. Just looking at this year, I see two position players on pace for a league average season. 2 others might get there but they’re rookies who’ve only produced in a very small sample. And then there’s a whole bunch of guys who look like they’ll finish below 1 WAR or around replacement level or below.

I don’t agree with your hyperbolic ranting that implies that average production has no place on a good, contention worthy team.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 28, 2011 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

At least you agree on the "conservative focus"

Not sure what your point is otherwise. If your point is that it’s a brilliant thing to lock up average players to hefty contracts then I don’t see how you can defend that.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 28, 2011 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're completely right.

The A’s should only play 5+ WAR players at every position, anything less than that is obvious mis-management by the front office. We should also only draft players who will turn into elite major leaguers. Also our managers should always take out pitchers right before they give up home runs or big hits. All of this is so simple, why don’t the A’s just get on the ball and do it?

Waddell for GM/Owner/Manager/President/Global Emperor 2012.

by Max Hartman on Jun 28, 2011 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're saying these aren't worthy objectives?

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 28, 2011 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

The are worthy realistic reasonable objectives.

I also want a million dollars to fall from the sky into my backyard.

by Max Hartman on Jun 28, 2011 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd vote for that

A pug in every driveway!

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on Jun 28, 2011 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yay!

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 28, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

original bob didnt

DDJ got the majority of the starts

by heartstopper on Jun 27, 2011 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

That -21 wRC+ against lefties won't hold.

Career mark against lefties is 84, which is more than fine enough for a full-time non-platooned player.

by danmerqury on Jun 27, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I suggested in the offseason in one discussion here a Bailey for Brown trade

I imagine that the Phillies could upgrade their closer situation with Bailey (who’s also a local guy, FWIW), and maybe get an immediate-upgrade-for-down-the-road-potential by getting DeJesus or Willingham (more likely Willingham) for Brown + a prospect.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jun 27, 2011 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cahill is 6 months younger than Brown

and has actually had some degree of success as a major-leaguer — whereas Brown has kinda sucked in his first 200 PAs. That’s not to deny that Brown is a top prospect, but demanding Cahill for him would seem to me to be a reach.

I agree that PHI is unlikely to trade him. But their offense has actually underperformed, their corner OF production has been utterly putrid, and if Ryan Madson blows a few saves against the Braves then Amaro might feel some pressure to solve two problems (bullpen, COF power) in one, fell swoop.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jun 27, 2011 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bailey + DDJ for Brown doesn't necessarily make me vomit.

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 27, 2011 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt they'd want another LH in the lineup, especially one who's hitting badly this year

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jun 27, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

It seems like most "fair" hypothetical trades have a sense of hatred/pleasure from both sides

Also Phillies notes I discovered while trolling around-

a) Brown has been on the s*&t list for lack of hustle and attitude issues lately. May bring his price tag down.
b) Singleton had a slow start, followed by 1 good month. Last year he had a slow second half after a good first half. I think there is some legitimate concerns that his true talent may not be as high as his hot stretch to start last season suggests.
c) In addition to the COF, BP help, they may need a fill in SP to help mitigate the Oswalt injury. He is out for probably 6 more weeks.

Could we trade Willingham, Balfour (or Devine), and Ross for Brown and Singleton?

by echerrst on Jun 27, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

did you hear the boos sat (i beleive)

when he jogged out of the batters box on his grounder to weeks… who bobbled it only to just get brown at 1st. with hustle it would have been safe and an E4.

by heartstopper on Jun 27, 2011 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Other than Cahill, I don't see anyone on the A's that the Phillies would trade Brown for

If they do, I’d jump for joy

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

If I were to sell, I would....

with the only untouchables being Bailey, Cahill, and Gio. Heck if I could fleece the other team I would consider trading them too. Look at the Mulder to St. Louis trade, or even better, the Haren to Arizona trade. “The Oakland A’s sent All-Star Dan Haren and prospect Connor Robertson to the Arizona Diamondbacks on Friday for pitchers Brett Anderson, Dana Eveland and Greg Smith, infielder Chris Carter and outfielders Aaron Cunningham and Carlos Gonzalez.” This is fleeced in my opinion. Try and get some prospects out of it, who specifically I am not sure of, although looking at recent history, it is easier to find OFs and Pitchers than IFs so I would focus on that.

If I were to buy, I would see what I could do for Carlos Pena. Interesting considering at one point we had him, but if you need a bat than go after him. He would give you a draft pick at the end of the day. Sure Reyes would be interesting, but Cliff will suffice for now considering other positions are bigger ?s. For an OF, if you need one, Id go after Beltran, Ordonez (although DET would prolly not trade him) or what about this guy Ive once heard of who goes by the name of Swisher (prolly wouldnt trade him). All of these OFs Id trade say Outman Fuentes and C+ prospects. For Pena instead id give a B prospect. Idk the market though. But right now, the big ? is at 1st base/Catcher. Unless Barton does a 180, we are kinda stuck. Carter maybe? but even he is a gamble. Plus I hope donaldson/recker can step up (even if management is preventing them) Hopefully Weeks/sizemore can continue to come through. 2-3 Bats though, and this team is set, but finding them is tough.

"Strikeouts are boring-besides that, they are fascist. Throw some ground balls. More Democratic." -Crash Davis

by David Journey on Jun 26, 2011 7:41 PM PDT reply actions  

Though Bailey Could Soon Be At Risk

If he puts together a healthy season, then Beane might let him go. He’s never been big on keeping closers. Ever since 2000, we’ve gone through about 6 or 7, a group that includes Keith Foulke and Jason Irsinghausen.

by Jason James on Jun 27, 2011 4:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

So you really think Beane would just let his all-star closer walk when he's UNDER CLUB CONTROL?

One of my friends – who knows Baily personally – always tries to use this argument, citing Oakland “not liking to pay closers.” The big difference between Foulke and Isringhausen is that they were free agents. Bailey is nowhere near free agency and is under club control for several (four?) more years.

What makes much more sense – if, in fact, the A’s do not intend to keep Bailey – is signing him and trading him, receiving a sizable haul in return rather than letting him walk out the door for nothing.

Oakland Athletics * St. Bonaventure Bonnies * Green Bay Packers * Buffalo Sabres * New York Knicks

by RyanFromBonas on Jun 27, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

He doesn't like to pay his closers

But sitting on a guy who could be worth a lot more traded is an opportunity cost. Its essentially the same thing

by dwishinsky on Jun 27, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think he means that Beane will just release Bailey at the end of this season.

But he will try to trade him.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

He says Beane may "let him go"

That, to me, implied let him leave as a FA prior to/during his arby years, which would be idiotic. Given the inflated value of relievers & closers relative to what he’ll make the next few years, during which time he’s under club control, Bailey could net a good amount in a trade as he establishes himself as one of the elite closers in the game.

Oakland Athletics * St. Bonaventure Bonnies * Green Bay Packers * Buffalo Sabres * New York Knicks

by RyanFromBonas on Jun 27, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bailey Is Under Club Control?

OK then, you’re right. I wasn’t aware of this. Of course, I do want Bailey to stay.

by Jason James on Jun 28, 2011 1:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Rangers are supposedly interested in Beltran.

In order to weigh whether or not to go for it, we not only have to weigh the team’s current place in the standings and its talent level but also the gains that division rivals are likely going to make. They’re not going to just stand pat while we go out and get players.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hitting a paltry .217 with 2, yes 2, homeruns in 184 at bats

It’s hard to believe he was going to stink this much in Seattle. Poor Ja….

A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!

by OptimistPrime on Jun 26, 2011 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

(don't look at his replacement)

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Jun 26, 2011 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

You both are coming dangerously close to violating the policy.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 26, 2011 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can we bring back Bob Crosby?

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

He can help clean the toilets on the third deck for $8.00 an hour…

Every man for himself...

by MMunoz33 on Jun 27, 2011 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

And yet he's still performing better than any free agent DH option from the offseason other than Damon and Thome.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

The difference in OBP is HUGE.

And enough to more than make up for the difference in everything else.

by danmerqury on Jun 27, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Walks are too human dependent for my likes. You have to hope the umpire has the same strike zone as

you, or you are standing with the bat on your shoulder and a stupid look on your face, as you walk back to the dugout.

by theblackpearl on Jun 27, 2011 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

And everything else isn't?

I haven’t run the numbers, but I’m willing to bet that BB rate is one of the most consistent skills from year to year that a batter can have. Hits depend on the opposing pitcher and defense, HRs depend on the distance of the fences, etc etc etc.

by danmerqury on Jun 27, 2011 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

This might help.

link

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oooh, thanks.

It’s a bit different (looking at spikes, not overall), but it’s still applicable, I’d bet.

by danmerqury on Jun 27, 2011 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

What about RISP???

I think that’s got to be right next to OBP.

Every man for himself...

by MMunoz33 on Jun 27, 2011 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can't believe I'm doing this again.

Career, bases empty: .801 OPS
Career, RISP: .832 OPS

Hey, wow!

by danmerqury on Jun 27, 2011 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm sure this has been done, too

but is there a way to run the same number while excluding all walks from both scenarios?

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 27, 2011 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wouldn't that just be BA+Slugging?

In which case it’d be:

Bases empty: .667 BA+S
RISP: .672

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jun 27, 2011 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Close enough, anyway.

What I’m getting at is that when I have a runner in scoring position, I want a hit, not a walk, dammit. Sure, a walk is better than an out, but unless the bases are loaded, that walk isn’t scoring me a run.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 27, 2011 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

so does GIDP

who has more. those should be taken away from OBP. if i remember right cust was real good at those.

by heartstopper on Jun 27, 2011 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cust in his CAREER: 32.

For example, Suzuki in only 2010: 22

by danmerqury on Jun 27, 2011 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

apparently ...

all the more reason to dump matsui. though i still wouldnt want cust

by heartstopper on Jun 27, 2011 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cust has hit into 3 double plays this season in 56 games. Matsui has hit into 6 in 64 games.

Cust has never hit into more than 7 in a full season. You’re remembering incorrectly.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I read "was real good at those"

as real good at avoiding the GIDP.

If someone said a hitter is “real bad at strikeouts”, would you read it as saying he doesn’t strike out much?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

The analogy doesn't fit.

GIDP stands for “ground[ing] into double plays”. Strikeouts are strikeouts. So for “real good at those”, “those” would be a proxy for “grounding into double plays”. Therefore, while “real bad at strikeouts” is ambiguous, “real good at grounding into double plays” isn’t.

That, plus his comments about how grounding into double plays should take away from OBP (which seems to pointedly refer to Cust as that’s his best skill), plus the fact that he didn’t correct my interpretation or clarify himself in subsequent comments, indicates to me that my interpretation is correct. You’re free to ask heartstopper himself though, if you’re still curious.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm, interesting.

I wasn’t trying to debate how it should be interpreted, I was just saying how I read it.

I suppose part of the reason I read it that way is because I already knew that Cust really was good at avoiding GIDP, so I naturally assumed that was what heartstopper was saying — though looking at it again along with your explanation, I can see now that he was trying to imply the opposite.

And yet, your logical argument notwithstanding, “real good at grounding into double plays” still sounds to me like it should mean good at avoiding them.

Maybe it’s a cultural thing. I tend not to assume sarcasm.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

They both are bad this year but Cust's .360 OBP is enough to make him a league average hitter whereas

Matsui is well below average. Matsui is the worst DH in the league this year not named Adam Dunn.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

In 2007 in wiffleball, I hit .211 but had an OBP of .460

I would have called it a Custian season, except that in 2007, Cust was really badass.

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 27, 2011 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

But he had a massive 2nd half last year and has been hitting much better since Bobo went byebye.

Matsui is as of now, a perfectly fine DH. He had a bad start, but so did Matt Holliday. Now he’s doing what Holliday did before we traded him. Water finds its level.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

{insert usual SSS caveat}

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's Matsui, a proven commodity.

SSS or no, the dude knows how to hit and his first couple of months were not indicative of his talent.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

PLUS...

he typically starts a season off slow. his last season in NY was bad too until midseason

by heartstopper on Jun 27, 2011 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's also 37, striking out at the highest rate of his career, walking at the lowest rate of his career,

swinging at more pitches out of the zone than any other season, and has a career low ISO.

If he still “knows” how to hit, then he should try to demonstrate that skill ASAP.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's really old.

At that age, talent tends to drop, often precipitously.

by danmerqury on Jun 27, 2011 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait...

so for Willingham, the first two months are indicative of true talent but with Matsui they’re not?

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jun 27, 2011 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

never?

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Jun 28, 2011 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hilariously, they've played in the exact same number of games.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jun 28, 2011 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

As much as I'd love for this to be the easy neat solution to Matsui's troubles...

It’s not. Or, at least, we can’t possibly say if it is. Anyone can get hot over 15 games.

by danmerqury on Jun 27, 2011 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

See Wiggington, Ty.

But it is encouraging to see a proven hitter do his thing.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

You said the C word

Twenty demerits.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 29, 2011 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

And walks are awesome

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2011 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

They are.

Jack Cust this year would be most optimally used as a pinch-walker. When you really need a guy to get on base, in a close and late situation, bring him in! Because he isn’t getting you a hit, and if he is, it isn’t going to be hit hard.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 27, 2011 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Either that

or make him the weirdest leadoff hitter in history.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 27, 2011 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

No weirder than Jeremy Giambi.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 28, 2011 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

As Art Howe Said:

“I must be the only manager in baseball who has to pinch-run for his leadoff man.”

by Jason James on Jun 28, 2011 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Did he really say that?

I always like Art…well, I think I did. He did have that wonderful blank look on his face that was so adorable. Somehow though, it was always preferable to Geren’s “where am I?” look.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 29, 2011 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

True.

Had forgotten about that one.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 28, 2011 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Brian Downing

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jun 28, 2011 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Should have been clearer.

When you really need to get a guy on first base, and don’t care if it results in any of the other runners on base advancing.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 28, 2011 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

But if he's so good at getting on base, why would you not want him in the line-up in the first place?

There is absolutely no time when he would be a bad option to have up to bat. If there’s a runner at 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs and you believe Cust will walk, that is good because now the bases will be loaded for the next hitter. You can argue that Cust shouldn’t be batting 4th, but he gets on base very well, which is something that should be a part of your line-up.

by sc00by on Jun 28, 2011 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know where he would fit...

but yes, he should be in a line up. Getting on base 2/5 times is worth a roster spot. Its just that he can’t field and he can’t run.

by sums95 on Jun 28, 2011 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good is the wrong word for it.

It’s better than getting out. Since the hitter that follows him plays for the Oakland Athletics, walking just delays the inevitable popup.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 29, 2011 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

You said the C word

No soup for you.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 29, 2011 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

How about a trade for John Joseph Cu...

Oh.

"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King

by YonYonson on Jun 27, 2011 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jaha retired a while ago, but he could probably still mash...

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jun 27, 2011 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

mash what? potatoes!?!

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 27, 2011 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

...son Giambi?

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 27, 2011 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would trade everyone with a last name other than Weeks

I don’t think the team is good enough to win in the window of the Anderson and Cahill contracts and there’s not too much on the farm right now. Go back to the rebuild that was aborted in 2009.

by throwmonkey on Jun 26, 2011 8:54 PM PDT reply actions  

There are no untouchables...

even Weeks. There is no such thing as “untouchable” in the literal sense, because obviously there are ways to get more value from trading the best player in the game. But in a figurative sense, Cahill, Gio (only because starting pitching is always the hardest to find) and that’s about it at the major league level. Love Bailey, but considering he is a “closer” and pitches 50 INN only per year, if someone wants to give us 3 top prospects because they are desperate for a reliever, by all means have him. Closers are a dime a dozen. And it’s not like he’s Rivera.

"I don't know a (expletive) Jew who would have the balls to say that. Let me just get this straight. You don't ever tip, huh?" -- Chris Penn, from Reservoir Dogs

by salary_cap on Jun 26, 2011 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

we need to keep SOMEONE

who can provide daily excitement. KEEP weeks

by heartstopper on Jun 27, 2011 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cahill JUST signed his contract

The team options on Cahill’s contract extend through 2017!!

by DDroney on Jun 26, 2011 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would agree on Cahill and Geo being untouchable.

You’d need them next year and you aren’t going to find better. Also agree on Bailey…love him but the delta between him and Wuertz or Breslow isn’t as significant…Balfour, even less.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 26, 2011 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would trade

One of Jackson/Dejesus to the whoever the highest bidder is and one of Fuentes/Wuertz/Balfour if there was a decent return. Undecided on Ellis. I would hold pat on Willingham and collect the draft picks, unless someone offered some unreasonable return for him.

by DDroney on Jun 26, 2011 9:02 PM PDT reply actions  

+1

except Ellis would be dealt IMO.

Every man for himself...

by MMunoz33 on Jun 27, 2011 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

So, it seems we have a lot of votes from the "cash them in" side...

What about someone who’s into a more laser like approach. If you could make one move, what would it be? Do you think a significant upgrade in power at 1B or RF would make a difference…or at least enough of a difference to get us from -6 to even?

Right now, I’m willing to make the case that it would. Note the jolt that Weeks has had on the team? Note the jolt that BoMel has had on the team. If we had one, just one, consistent power hitter in the middle of the lineup, and the team could, on average score two more runs per game, where would we be? For example, would Pena at first make a significant enough difference to make us competitive? (personally, I don’t think so) Aramis Ramirez at 3B? Hmmm…perhaps. Pick one player that you think might be available and let us know if you think they’d be a game breaker.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 26, 2011 10:54 PM PDT reply actions  

OK, I will:
Note the jolt that Weeks has had on the team? Note the jolt that BoMel has had on the team.

Before Weeks and Melvin, we were nine games under 500 and playing like a 100-loss team. Now we’re nine games under 500 and playing like an 81-81 team. That’s a nice improvement, and I truly appreciate it, but it hardly makes us playoff bound. We’re still in the hole we dug and we’re just treading water now.

(And no, that’s not a mixed metaphor. We dug a hole that has water in it!)

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 26, 2011 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

A well?

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco

by bobnothing on Jun 27, 2011 4:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

A sick?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 27, 2011 6:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Somehow acquire Ryan Ludwick

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

OF: Ludwick-Bourn-Beltran = wins!

How can we rip a 4 team trade though?

Step 1:

OAK get: Ludwick, Bourn, Beltran
SD get: ?
NYM get: ?
HOU get: ?

Step 2: add the question marks together to get ???
Step 3: Profit!

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

At least he is someone that we actually might be able to get.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 29, 2011 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just a note on improving by an average or 2 runs scored per game

The A’s are averaging 3.54 RS per game (2nd-to-last in the AL, ahead of only the Mariners).

Boston is leading the league, averaging 5.31 RS per game.

Even somehow commandeering a healthy Pujols or Hamilton or whomever isn’t going to transform this offense from nearly the worst to the best in the league.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jun 27, 2011 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Boston scored 8 runs a game in June though...

Who’s in 2nd place? The RS are having some historically great season.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

We also have good pitching coming back, so we don't need to improve that much.

1B & RF are the main areas where we need to improve. We’re pretty close though. Matsui has an 885 OPS under Melvin, so he’s getting there.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I typically object to the "buyer" vs "seller" dichotomy,

because I think it oversimplifies and forces a narrow way of thinking that isn’t good for the team. Nevertheless, for this year I lean pretty strongly toward the traditional “sell” attitude.

The one essential piece of information you’ve left out in your hypothetical is how other 29 teams are doing. You say “the A’s are still 5-6 games out”, but you don’t tell me how many other teams are out of contention. That’s what really matters. If there are a lot of “buyers” this year and not many “sellers”, that’s when we should sell. If, on the other hand, a lot of teams are sure they’re out of it and ready to unload their veteran stars so that it’s a buyer’s market, then we should not sell and should possibly even buy a little.

No one is untouchable, but some players fit the sort of trade we’d want to make more than others. Someone like Willingham is an obvious fit to trade away, whereas someone like Weeks really isn’t a good fit, so it seems unlikely we’d move him, but I wouldn’t rule out him or anyone else. Some of the players people are naming as untouchables — eg, Bailey, Ross — seem like top trade candidates to me. Our young starting pitchers are nice to keep, but they’re also particularly attractive to other teams. I don’t think it would be such a terrible idea to trade Cahill, Anderson, or Gio for a good offer.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 26, 2011 10:56 PM PDT reply actions  

Not on those terms, no.

But I do prefer being moderately good year after year even if it means never being world champion.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Two answers to you question, depending on how literally

I’m supposed to take it. If “every year” means since the dawn of time, then duh, of course not. No team wins 85 games every year. Even just in the past ten years, there is only one team that has won 85 games each year (the Yankees, of course). There are only three teams that have had a winning season every year since 2005 (Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies). So no, of course I can’t name such a team.

If you reformulate the question to address the general concept but in more reasonable parameters, I honestly wasn’t sure, so I took a look. When I say “moderately good” I’m imagining a “true-talent” 85-win team, which let’s say ends up with anywhere from 80 to 90 wins. Team payrolls vary from year to year, so let’s suppose by “on the A’s payroll” you mean a team that never goes above $80 million per year. And let’s forget about “every year” but see if any team can maintain that standard for longer than what we could call a normal boom-and-bust cycle.

The payroll requirement turns out to includes just eight teams (A’s, Royals, Rays, Nationals, Marlines, Reds, Pirates, Padres). If we count only before 2010 there are two more teams that never went above $80 million until that year (Twins, Rockies).

So, looking at those teams, what is the longest stretch of seasons with 80 or more wins we can find (in the relatively recent past)? The best is the A’s, who managed it from 1999 to 2006. Next best is the Twins from 2001 to 2006. Other than those, the best I can find is two four-year streaks (Reds 1985-1988, Padres 2004-2007) which are arguably just an extended boom in a boom-and-bust cycle.

So the answer to your question is yeah, it’s pretty rare. Most of those teams just suck all the time. Still, the A’s did it before. I want them to do it again.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's really hard to win 85 games consistently for 10 years or more in a row

without a huge budget. A smaller budget means we have to take chances to win big.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 28, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd like to see DDJ's/Willinghams numbers go up before the break.

That being said I’m still hoping for a DDJ extension. He’s clearly a better player than he’s shown, and we could get him at a discount. Plus (I think) he said he actually like, enjoys, Oakland.

I’m kinda with iglew on the false dichotomy thing. Everyone is available for the right price, but I’d suspect the guys that would go at the right price would be some of Suzuki, Bailey, Fuentes (probably just for salary relief), Balfour, possibly other bullpen arms, Pennington, and some of the starters. I’d trade just about any of those guys, except Pennington, if the deal is right.

The guy I’m most torn on is Coco. Part of me feels he’s a better player than he’s shown, he’d be affordable, and I think he likes Oakland, but I wonder if what we’re seeing now is what we’d get next year. So trading him all depends on the return (like it does with everyone), but I’d be ok holding onto him as well.

I’d like to see the A’s try Weeks in center. I think (and could be very wrong) that Cardenas is best suited for second, and that could be the best of both worlds. Neither will be superstars, but it could work.

Carter needs to DH everyday, period. Send him back to Sactown if he’s not gonna play. I’m admittedly not the biggest Carter fan, but he’s got a shot at being a real offensive star, and that’s a chance we can’t waste.

end rant.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jun 26, 2011 11:06 PM PDT reply actions  

About Coco...

What do you think about his terrible arm? After watching him over the last couple weeks it is kind of absurd and disappointing how he commands zero respect from baserunners. Is there a statistic that shows how many bases/runs he has allowed as a result of his weakest asset?

by BillyGeren on Jun 27, 2011 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

According to Fangraphs (the Arm stat under advanced fielding)

He’s cost the A’s 1.6 runs with his arm so far this season. Looking over his overall fielding stats he’s usually in the black since his above average range makes up for his weak arm.

Cardenas!!!! WoooooooooooooHOOOOOOOOO

by Mattel on Jun 27, 2011 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pretty much what Mattel said.

A guy with a better arm might command more respect, but Coco catches more balls, meaning more outs, and guys can only really advance one base on a fly out.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jun 27, 2011 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

if you don't mind strikeouts in exch for HRs

get rid of coco and bring up miller. that guy mashes (15hr/195ab, thats 1 in 13ab) but strikes out at the ungodly rate of 45+% (86/192AB and that is at AAA). he’s fast (signed letter of intent for WR at stanford) with 11SB, 0CS so he can cover a lot of ground and he can JUMP and steal those over the wall shots (also signed to play point guard at stanford).

if only his Ks were more worldly………………..

by heartstopper on Jun 27, 2011 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

WOW 45%?

That’s insane. I don’t mind strikeouts one bit at the big league level, but when they happen in the minors it’s a huge red flag. Plus I just don’t think think he’s very good, it’s his third straight year in AAA. Although if we trade Coco and are focusing on the future, might as well bring him up.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jun 27, 2011 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jai Miller

Current owner of a .435 BABIP and a .351 ISO

If we knock his BABIP down to 335 and his ISO down to a more realistic 260 (I’m being generous in both cases) then his line looks like this:

193/307/454 in AAA

Not expecting much in MLB for this guy.

Cardenas!!!! WoooooooooooooHOOOOOOOOO

by Mattel on Jun 27, 2011 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh...my god.

45% at AAA is unbelievable. I’m willing to bet the list of guys who have succeeded in the majors with a K rate north of 45% in AAA is very, very small.

by danmerqury on Jun 27, 2011 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ks beat DPs

I just hate it when they take called thirds.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 27, 2011 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cardenas

I was at the River Cats game tonight and Cardenas was playing Left Field.

"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra

by Ovale Fan on Jun 27, 2011 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only guys on this roster that are untouchable: Bailey, Weeks, and either Gio or Cahill

I think we will be in the race when the All-Star break comes around. The next two series seem very winnable, and those final 2 series before the break will be huge. Still, there are only 3 “game changers” I think we have a chance on. Hunter Pence, B.J. Upton and Carlos Quentin. I’d prefer Justin Upton, but what can you do. I think Hunter Pence would require the most prospects, followed by Quentin and B.J. Upton.

The Astros need prospects for the future, plus a few major league ready players to give their fan base the false sense that they care about putting a decent product on the field while they wait for the future. So, we give them a major league ready OF and SP, coupled with two prospects that project to be MLB players down the line at positions they need, 2B and OF. The A’s get a great player in Hunter Pence, who would immediately bat 3rd in the lineup. The A’s also get the Astros to throw in a 3B prospect, just to even the numbers out. The Oakland A’s trade: Tyson Ross, David DeJesus, Eric Sogard, and Michael Choice to The Houston Astros for Hunter Pence and Mike Kvasnicka.

Reason for Hope: Last season at the trade deadline, the Astros dealt Lance Berkman to the Yankees for 2 prospects: Mark Melancon, Pitcher, who is currently on their MLB roster, but was only ranked a “C” prospect when dealt; and Jimmy Paredes, 2B, who is also a “C” prospect now in the Astros farm.

The 2nd team I’d like Billy to target would be to either the White Sox or the Rays. I figure both teams will be in the race, so both will be wanting to add to a position of need. The White Sox want RELIEF Pitching. It seems that the White Sox are very high on Brent Lillibridge, so the loss of Quentin would immediately be filled, while they also bulk up on their position of weakness. Likewise, the Rays have the following OF: Johnny Damon, Sam Fuld, Matt Joyce, B.J. Upton, Ben Zobrist and Justin Ruggiano. What the RAYS need is CATCHING (which we don’t even have at the MLB level — maybe we could trick them though) and relief pitching.
The Oakland A’s Trade: Kurt Suzuki Josh Donaldson, Ian Krol, Grant Balfour, and David DeJesus to the Tampa Bay Rays for B.J. Upton and Brandon Guyer.
or
The Oakland A’s: Trade Michael Wuetz, Ian Krol, David DeJesus and Aaron Shipman for Carlos Quentin and Tyler Flowers.

Hey, let me dream. I understand 1 of these trades is unreasonable, perhaps 2. But not all 3. It could happen. GO A’S! Lets sweep Florida and Arizona.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jun 27, 2011 12:05 AM PDT reply actions  

That'd be "my dream."

In reality, I think we could pull it off for 1 or 2 of these guys. I don’t really want Quentin on 2nd thought, agreeing with Cuppingmaster. What is more realistic?! The Rays need a Catcher, but likely wouldn’t want to take on Suzuki’s contract. If they offered B.J. Upton for Suzuki, I’d pull the trigger in a second. I only listed Pence, Upton, and Quentin because they seem like the only “above average bats” (even though, Upton and Quentin are having horrible years in terms of BA., but Upton is still valuable in a handful of other areas) on the market. I also think Pence could be had for players we don’t want. I’m reminded of last years trade deadline, and the two “C” prospects it took the Yankees to land Berkman. Granted, Pence is younger and has more upside at this point. If I had to throw a real offer at the Astros, how about this: Tyson Ross, CoCo Crisp, Michael Choice, and Ian Krol for Hunter Pence and Mike Kvasnicka? Or, Kurt Suzuki, Grant Balfour, Eric Sogard, and Mike Thompson for B.J. Upton? I’m I still dreaming!? Perhaps!

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jun 27, 2011 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Carlos Quentin - DNW

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Don't we want to keep Krol?

And is Flowers really any better than Suzuki? I’ve never been high on Quentin; plus, he’s Willingham with the glove

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I've never really thought much of Krol

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Neither have I. I like Matt Thompson though

Yeah, Quentin is kind of a product of the White Sox lineup over the years in regards to power numbers. I’d rather look elsewhere. However, he is one of the best bats on the market, sadly.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jun 27, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think we can still win the division

I would sell our surplus starters: DeJesus for starters has no business being on this team. And with Weeks manning the leadoff spot, I’d be willing to part ways with a healthy Coco Crisp, too. Our outfield will consist of Matsui, Willingham & Sweeney, with CoJax backing up when he’s not manning first base. We could also call up either Taylor or Jai Miller, who I might add is raking in Sac.

I’m also willing to trade my boy, Penny. I loved his glove a year ago, but he hasn’t shown any significant improvement with his bat this season and his defense hasn’t been that great this year. Penny hasn’t showed me that he wants the job. He’s playing like he’s keeping the seat warm for someone else returning from the DL or something. Stick Rosales at ss, and call up one of the AAA kids.

Suzuki too, get him the bleep out of here! He along with (Barton) has been so over hyped by AN, it’s not even funny. Call up Recker or Donaldson. I’m tired of watching that overrated, weak-hitting catcher hit pop-ups to the infield.

That’s my $0.02, and keep the change.

by sf drift king on Jun 27, 2011 1:38 AM PDT reply actions  

On Pennington...

Really? Maybe you’re right but last year I remember him making the great plays and muffing the easy ones. This year, he seems to be handling both types well. As to his hitting, he’s been a streak hitter and this year seems no different except that he seems to be about .020 points above where he was last year. I think he’s still a work in progress but moving in the right direction.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 27, 2011 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Needs/Surplus/Age

Braves could use a CF who plays defense competently, and who can hit better than Nate McLouth. That means pretty much anyone. And anyone includes Coco Crisp. They also could take a good setup man because unless Johnny Venters is a cyborg (debatable) they need another eighth inning guy. Balfour seems like a logical person, as he is a righty (Venters is a lefty) and he is putting up good numbers. I suggested we go after Mike Minor in another thread and I got some shit for it, but its not out of the realm of possibility considering the Braves insane depth at SP in the majors and minors, and that they seem to hate him.

Reds need a frontline starter, a shortstop, and possibly another OF bat (Johnny Gomes anyone?). They also have probably one of the biggest surpluses of frontline prospect talent who are also close to the majors. I’d check on the availability of Grandal, Mesoraco, Alonso (Catcher and First Base are two obvious places where we could upgrade offensively). I’d dangle Pennington (he’s better than Paul Janish and Edgar Renteria, and represents a known commodity in contrast to Zack Cosart), Willingham/Matsui, and gasp Gio. But if we give up Gio, I’d want the god package, and I’d like Mike Minor from the aforementioned Braves deal to replace him. A smaller deal of Pennington and the Hammer for Zack Cosart, Travis Wood, and a high upside Low-A kind of guy would be alright. Wood would be a great back of the rotation guy and is being wasted at AAA and Cosart plays just as good defense as Pennington if not better, and his stolen base and hr numbers indicate a facet of his game that Pennington just doesn’t have. The risk of course would be that he hasn’t tasted the majors yet and he could tank.

Others: Yanks need bullpen help. That could be a fit. And I’d like to see Devine take over the 8th inning RH role and FDLS get called up. Rangers need a coach that knows how to manage a bullpen, as Wash as absolutely been brutal with Feliz lately. May I suggest Bob Geren?

by sourstuff on Jun 27, 2011 1:50 AM PDT reply actions  

cozart*

excuse me, i’ve been having weird dreams about Jarred Cosart.

by sourstuff on Jun 27, 2011 1:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like your way of thinking here.

I think the Reds are the team Beane is most likely to do a big trade with this summer.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Travis Wood is a good target imo.

His numbers are crap because he is a fly ball pitcher in a hitters park. He can be a solid 4 or 5 in Oakland imho.

by sums95 on Jun 27, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

agreed

he had a 2.2 WAR last year.

by sourstuff on Jun 27, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

2.2 WAR in 100.2 innings.

And I don’t think he has had problems with injuries.

by sums95 on Jun 27, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only if both Bob and Wash agree on a move

And then know that is must be wrong.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 27, 2011 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

If I were Beane

(Which lord knows, I am not) I would not hesitate to blow the A’s up. The reason being that a vast majority of the A’s roster has underperformed with regards to career statistics. Instead of their infield being UZR porn, or the outfield actually performing at a league average level, the A’s got the opposite of that kind of thing. Point is, the A’s can’t be afraid to blow it up because in some cases the alternative is not worse at all.

So, my ultimate worst case scenario: Cahill is the only ‘untouchable’. If someone proposes a ridonkulous trade for any guy on the A’s, Beane should pull the trigger. This includes my personal favorites like Gio. So, I’ll float some random trade ideas out here.

Gio Gonzalez to the Rangers for Jorge Alfaro (#TeamLegend), Mike Olt and Robbie Erlin I have a feeling this would end up being a fair trade. The Rangers get Gio, who we know can be an ace when he’s on, and who would probably fare well in Texas. (More so than Cahill or Anderson). This gives the Rangers rotation depth, which we know they need. A’s get the 3B they’ve desperately needed, and a pretty good pitching prospect in Erlin. Alfaro ends up being the prize in the deal, as his approach at the plate is absolutely tremendous and if he sticks behind the plate it’ll be a total steal. He’s far away, but the talent is there.

Cliff Pennington to San Francisco for Eric Surkamp Pretty self explanatory. Giants need a SS, but Sabean is notoriously cheap with his prospects. Surkamp is being aided significantly by his park in Augusta, but the K rate will still be good enough to play in the majors.

Coco Crisp and Michael Wuertz to Atlanta for Randall Delgado Okay, this one might be a bit of a stretch. But this would be a fuckin a trade if I ever saw one. Vizcaino can be inserted in place of Delgado here, I like them both. If Beane asked for Teheran or Minor he’d get laughed off the phone, but I think Wren listens if it’s Delgado or Vizcaino. I could be very, very wrong though. Laughably wrong. Oh well, this is why you ask.

Josh Willingham to Philadelphia for the corpse of Raul Ibanez and Domonic Brown I feel that the A’s would need to throw something else in the deal to sweeten the package, because Brown’s only fault has been breaking his hand which is a notoriously hard injury to regain a stroke from. But maybe I’m wrong. Again, it’s why you make the phone call.

Alright, that was fun. I got my inner-GM out. Let me know what you think, eh?

"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.

by Orodawg on Jun 27, 2011 2:28 AM PDT reply actions  

Ibanez? Surkamp? Trading Gio within the division? Good sir may I please have what you are smoking.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 3:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dude, we aren't going to rebuild again.

We simply are not trading Gio for teenagers. That will never happen. Olt+Erlin are nice prospects, but Gio has marketability and is already a fan fave and that counts for a lot.

Gio is not untouchable, but he’s bringing back cost-controlled MLB-ready talent, not prospects.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Here's where I'm coming from

The A’s suck. A lot. So trade all your good stuff for prospects that can be BETTER than what you’re currently giving up. Gio has three arb years after this one, he isn’t locked up nor is he going to be insanely affordable. If a team goes year to year with him, he will end up costing money. The Rangers trade is actually really really fair, no teams will give up MLB ready talent for Gio. They won’t. Gio isn’t Longoria or Cahill with extremely affordable contracts, he’s just a good ML #2 who flashes ace at times.

Surkamp is the MOST you should get for Pennington. Neither of them are particularly good, but they have some decent seasons in them.

Raul Ibanez is being picked up to save Philly money, so they can use said money to pursue other pieces at the deadline. That is very, very useful for them but I really doubt the saved cash + Willingham would get you Brown. Which is why I put the disclaimer.

I find it really funny that you didn’t even talk about the most bong-tastic of the trade proposals in the Crisp + Wuertz to Atlanta. But whatever.

"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.

by Orodawg on Jun 27, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

You are coming from a place that isnt based in reality though.

The A’s do not suck a lot, they have dealt with injuries and were in 1st place when the team had its best rotation in. The A’s lost so much pitching no team in baseball could do as well as they have. You are really underrating the players here. We are 6 games out, that could be 3-5 after the next series. If we are 3 games out in July are you still going to say we suck? Players are underperforming but water finds its own level. You are going overboard here, things arent that bad.

Your trades are all completely un-doable and will never happen. I get it that you want to make it look like the A’s are losing out because you are proposing it, but you went overboard here. Gio is magnificent and will indeed bring us back a great MLB player. In no way will Billy Beane ever ever ever acquire Raul Ibanez.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

That last sentence looks disturbingly like a jinx to me.

On the plus side, Raul does come with a fun chant. Could make up for the loss of “Kooooooooz”.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I want some too.

I can’t see trading Gio…he’s not even under a long term contract yet…he’s cheap. And I certainly can’t see him going to our division’s leader. On second thought, whatever he’s smoking is not a happy drug…I’ll pass.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 27, 2011 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

If I'm trading Gio to Texas I'd want Profar back. None of Alfaro, Olt or Erlin seems like they're good enough

as the centerpiece in a Gio deal. Pennington for Surkamp seems OK, but I see no way we’re getting Delgado for Wuertz nor Brown for Willingham

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Eh, I'm kinda thinking of the Mulder trade with Gio, I suppose

Profar is good, but he has two different swings from each side of the plate, one which generates power and another that’s a contact swing. I’m not convinced that good pitchers won’t exploit that. Idk. Alfaro is the Barton to this trade, imo. I mean, ideally I would want Perez back in a Gio deal, and I think we could get him considering his bad year. I was just being conservative with my proposals.

"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.

by Orodawg on Jun 27, 2011 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd want Josh Hamilton

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 27, 2011 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope this is a joke

  Because you would be the worse GM ever. Why would you trade Pennington or Gio? Neither will be come a free agent.

by Arcman on Jun 27, 2011 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

You're under rating them

  They are the 2 better players on the A’s. Look at how thin the SS position is in baseball. Pennington defense is above average and his hitting numbers are average with SS out there. A starter with Gio numbers are top among young players. Taking a chance on prospects would be like betting your lotto numbers are coming up. Even the yanks top prospect is floundering right now. I can see trading future free agents but not young established players.

by Arcman on Jun 27, 2011 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good players net good prospect hauls

Average players net average prospect hauls

If the price is right, I would trade anyone on the A’s. The system is terrible and needs an infusion of difference making talent.

by echerrst on Jun 27, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

By default

  Other than Gio, CaHill, Weeks, and Pennington the rest of the players are average. Only reason Pennigton is on the list because his position is very weak around baseball and in the A’s organization. Looking at the prospect in baseball you would never get back what these 4 players are worth. Do you realy think any team will trade their best prospects in a package deal for a Gio? No because baseball have changed in the last few years and top prospects do not get traded. Their worth is higher than any return. Yes I would trade Gio for Homser on KC but KC wouldn’t do that trade. The prospects in baseball this year are very weak .

by Arcman on Jun 27, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Gio for Hosmer isn't even a good trade for us

It doesn’t fill any pressing needs… like every other more important place on the diamond. Hosmer is a good hitter, shit he might be a generational talent, but it wouldn’t fix the black holes in the field nor cover the rotation.

Cahill’s contract is so team friendly that you would literally only be able to trade him to Tampa or Boston, because they are the only teams with the ability to pay up for him and feel that the price was negligible.

Pennington is average. Purely average. And Weeks is someone you package with other players to get a larger name. He isn’t an established major leaguer after 2 weeks.

"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.

by Orodawg on Jun 27, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Having one awesome player and a black hole is definitely better than what we have now.

I’d do Gio for Hosmer is a nanosecond. We’re the A’s: any pitching can be covered, its hitters that are the diamonds we cant find nor afford.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Moore would be rightfully flogged out of town for that trade

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Cincinnati is another team that could make a fair offer for Cahill.

They’ve got a stacked farm with several players the A’s would like. The Reds could definitely use a starting pitcher, and their farm is loaded enough they could afford to part with a good chunk of it and not destroy their future, especially if the pitcher they get is someone who will be around for several years.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jay Bruce for Trevor Cahill plz.

Perfect deal for both sides, they have seemingly hundreds of great OFers and no one close to TC.

Getting prospects now is kind of pointless unless they are going to be ready by late this season or next. We have a young core now.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is all still a selling philosophy

Called lets dump what we have and hope for the future. This seems like a regurgitation of recent years. We don’t lack pitching so why dump it and need pitching?

Why don’t we dump prospects and pick up a solid veteran position player? Jetison Miller, Carter, Taylor, Donaldson and get some B+ player in return that can keep us in a pennant race and keep the team solvent?

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 27, 2011 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pennington's defense is not above average.

He’s hardly a piece that you have to hold onto.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sell sell sell

This team isn’t going anywhere

by TerrySteinbach on Jun 27, 2011 2:39 AM PDT reply actions  

If we could somehow make our OF look like Ludwick-Bourn-Beltran

We’d win more. I don’t know what it would take to do that though, I assume Ludwick would cost a couple low level prospects, Beltran would cost money and a decent prospect and Bourn would cost Outman, Moscoso and a prospect. We in turn could trade all our OF for prospects. Willingham, Crisp & DeJesus all have value still. Sweeney+Jackson might have interest too, who knows…

I’d also check in with Boston to see what they’d offer for Suzuki. We are only 6 games out, its a coin flip as to sell or buy, but we really aren’t that far off here. I say try and remodel the OF and see what happens.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 3:44 AM PDT reply actions  

Just Throwing This Out,

But what if we traded Fuentes, DeJesus and Anderson to Toronto for Jose Bautista? Probably wouldn’t work, but it’s just an idea.
Or, how about Fuentes, Wuertz, and Cardenas (plus something else) for Hunter Pence? That might work.

by Jason James on Jun 27, 2011 4:11 AM PDT reply actions  

Put yourself in Toronto's shoes

Offered Fuentes, DeJesus, and Anderson for Jose Bautista, what would you say?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 27, 2011 6:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

Because that would mean that an A’s fan was in charge of Toronto.
I would then quit the Jays and take over Oakland.

by Jason James on Jun 27, 2011 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd demand a Matt to be named later

"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King

by YonYonson on Jun 27, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I saw "tearing up the PCL"

and thought Harden found a new ligament to injure.

"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King

by YonYonson on Jun 27, 2011 7:50 AM PDT reply actions   5 recs

heh

"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang

by King Richard on Jun 27, 2011 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Awesome.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 27, 2011 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

We have two options -- either trade the farm and go for it in 2011 or trade the major league roster for prospects

Unfortunately I don’t think we have enough on the farm to get us Reyes and Beltran, and so I’d trade the major league roster. I wouldn’t trade Cahill, Anderson or Gio till the offseason, but I’d trade everyone else for the highest upside prospects I could get. I wouldn’t place much value on “likelihood of reaching the majors”, since all of the players on the team have 100% likelihood of reaching the majors and they aren’t very good.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 8:07 AM PDT reply actions  

Cust: wash

Beltre: Uhhh…he’s on the Rangers and he’s good. Any questions?

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

By "franchise leveraging", I'd mean at least a 6 WAR player, and while he's achieved

that and more in the past, I don’t see him as projecting that high going forward.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 27, 2011 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

We'd be better now with Beltre

no question.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think they paid too much for him, especially in that offense.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 27, 2011 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

If Beltre was on the A's right now, it seems like he would've added about 2 wins to the A's

while subtracting a win from the Rangers so far. I guess it’s the difference between being 3 games back instead of 6 games back.

The problem is that even those of us who were derided as “pessimistic” in the offseason seem to have overestimated the positive contributions of Beane’s additions. The people who were even more pessimistic, like thejd44, were promptly run off this site. Unfortunately, he seems to be looking the most right out of all of us right now.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Being disagreed with by most of the others in the community

is not the same as being “run off this site”.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sure.

But in this case, him deleting his account came right after being blasted by this community for expressing an unpopular view. The community may not have purposely intended to “run him off the site”, but the nature of their responses seems to have had that effect.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cust for Brian Feuntes

  That is the trade i would make then cut Cust and you are far ahead.

by Arcman on Jun 27, 2011 9:26 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Cust needs a home run park

  He is useless in Oakland or as you can see in Seattle. Put him in Texas and he will get his power back.

by Arcman on Jun 27, 2011 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Addition through Subtraction

The A’s are going to get low-balled on everyone except those you don’t want to trade, like Gio, Cahill and Bailey. And you don’t want to give up the players who will be at the core of the team for the next three or four years, when you hope to compete.

So the A’s are stuck. The only thing to do is open the door to position players and see if they can compete. That means being willing to take a salary loss on Crisp and DeJesus (Willingham’s injury keeps him out of the picture for the moment), and moving Powell to open up room for Recker or Donaldson to make an impression. You can’t trade Suzuki because it’s dangerous to leave the catching position open to untested minor leaguers who aren’t uber-prospects (like Posey last year).

So I’d move those three - Crisp, DeJesus and Powell. I’d bring up Cardenas, Jai Miller and Recker (with Taylor and Donaldson in the wings if Recker and Miller can’t cut it). I’d see about moving Balfour for a quality prospect, simply because he’s the only middle reliever who’ll net anyone of real value (Wuertz, Devine and Breslow will give you somebody but the risk isn’t worth it; Fuentes would be a salary dump) and because De Los Santos is waiting in the wings. With Ellis looking like a good defensive first baseman, I’d move Jackson if I got a decent offer, and then alternate Ellis and Carter (with Carter acting as DH the other days and Matsui in the outfield).

Honestly, I can’t see a situation where moving DeJesus or Powell will hurt the team’s chances to win any particular game. Crisp or a reliever not named Fuentes, yes. But those two, no.

by richwol1 on Jun 27, 2011 10:21 AM PDT reply actions  

Crisp/DDJ/Powell

That’s a pretty unimpressive group to get anything back from

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Basically I’m saying they can be given away. Not expecting anything in return. That’s why it’s “addition through subtraction.”

by richwol1 on Jun 27, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

We only need better production from RF and 1B and we will be set.

I’d try and acquire 2 players who can play those spots better than we have currently.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with you on that

  Only reason to hang on to Willingham is for the draft picks. He is a A type free agent so offer him arbitration and if he sign else where that is a plus. DeJesus is a B type free agent but the year he is having offering him arbitration is not worth a second rounder. The problem is the A’s expendable players will not bring back anything more than a high risk (A ball)prospect.

by Arcman on Jun 27, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

We've discussed this before, but to repeat:

The rule that allows compensation draft picks for departing type A and type B free agents is a rule in the current Collective Bargaining Agreement. That CBA expires this December, and the rule would expire with it unless it is renewed in some form in the new CBA.

There has been some debate among fans about how likely that is to happen. Some (including NSJ, if I recall) have said they think it will probably be preserved. Others (including me and Paul Thomas) have said they think it probably won’t.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

my belief is that pending FAs will be "grandfathered," at a minimum.

I do agree that compensation will ultimately be modified.

But I don’t think they will quit it cold turkey.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 27, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would trade for a new GM and owner

I would love that.

ya know what i'am say'in .....

by joecooley on Jun 27, 2011 10:55 AM PDT reply actions  

pl78, that would work since

BB likes to acquire oft injured players …

ya know what i'am say'in .....

by joecooley on Jun 27, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

How about Todd Frazier?

  The reds have no position for him and the need for pitching. Package a Weurtz, Breslow, and Moscoso for him. Sell high on Moscoso. Frazier has a more upside than anything we have at first. If Weurtz is not good enough just send any other RH Devine or Balfour instead. Would give the A’s a solid player.

by Arcman on Jun 27, 2011 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why is everyone so reluctant to trade Bailey?

He strikes me as our best trade chip, in terms of the balance of how much we could get for him against how valuable he is for us.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 11:00 AM PDT reply actions  

Very much agreed.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jun 27, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

If i was GM ..

Make trades for blue chip prospects and DONT TRADE THEM. Since ownership is a bunch of tight wads, it’s the only way they will succeed

or

Just load the team with players they can’t afford, win a WS, and BK the team. Then we can get new ownership.

ya know what i'am say'in .....

by joecooley on Jun 27, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Remember to consider the potential of Devine and Fautino de los Santos in thinking about the cost of losing Bailey.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jun 27, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bailey's worth

  Way down after the injury so you would not get good value out of him now. Maybe around July 31st you could get a top prospect for him if he is still closing out games. I wouldn’t trade him unless it is a great package for him.

by Arcman on Jun 27, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

This

Good guy, but most likely to get something good back.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

yep

I’d like to see them package Bailey and possibly Willingham/Ellis/Suzuki for a decent prospect or two.

by oakballnack on Jun 27, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure how willing teams would be to give up quality for him

considering his injury history, the fact that he’s going to start being expensive, and how he hasn’t accumulated the counting stats (saves) yet. But Beane would definitely look to move him in the offseason.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Get rid of "dead wood"

The A’s have a ton of “dead wood” right now: Fuentes (aka “Twenties” (losses)), Ellis, Barton, Kuz, DeJesus, Jackson, Matsui, Ellis, and I would even add Rosales and Sizemore to that list, even though those two are playing decently (at least hitting) at the moment.

My priority would be to move any of those players that could bring something back in return. Maybe Matsui or Fuentes would bring something in return. Possibly DeJesus or Ellis based on prior reputations. Just getting them off the roster and freeing up spaces for some of their farm players to get opportunities would be useful. Heck, they have a first place team in AAA right now, with a lineup stocked with .280+ hitters. Surely there are a couple of players in there that could hit .250 against major league pitchers with a tiny bit of power or better. Even that would be a huge improvement over the stiffs that we have right now.

by BrianJ12 on Jun 27, 2011 11:16 AM PDT reply actions  

I would do the same ...

do a fire sale and get some prospects, bring up some prospects as well, it’s not like we are going to win the WS this year.

ya know what i'am say'in .....

by joecooley on Jun 27, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

But these guys won't net decent prospects

So why dump any of them unless you just want them off the team, in which case release or DFA would suffice.

I’m also not getting the Ellis-hate. He’s a great back-up 2B and has shown over the weekend he’s a great defensive 1B as well. Plus, he has a sufficient track record to indicate his bat could still heat up and do some damage. The success of Ellis at 1B means that Jackson can be moved to a team looking for a reserve OF/1B, Carter installed at 1B, and Ellis as his defensive replacement. I’m sure I’m alone here, but I would keep Ellis through the year, and it’s not just for sentimental reasons.

by richwol1 on Jun 27, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

The A's need to go young at this point.

Keeping players who dont perform while dumping young talent has put the A’s in the position they are in now. Imagine the A’s lineup with Carlos Gonzales and Andre Ethier in the lineup! But those players were Fire Sale Victims. Who will Wolff sell of for Cap Considerations this year? If the A’s are not a buyer this time around, then the season will be all but over. Wolff is the KING of raising the white flag! He has a track record of selling at the break NO MATTER if the team is in contention or NOT! We need an owner who has the confidence and wherewithal to be a BUYER and GO FOR IT! Wolff is NOT that owner.

Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!

by FaStRmAn on Jun 27, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rewriting history, eh?

Neither Andre Ethier nor Carlos Gonzales were Fire Sale victims. Ethier was traded for Milton Bradley, who helped the A’s get to the play-offs in 2006 (and at the time the A’s were higher on Travis Buck than Ethier), and Carlos Gonzales was part of the trade for Matt Holiday, a trade that Beane acknowledges was a mistake because he thought that particular team could compete, and it couldn’t. In both cases, Beane was a buyer, not a seller. Oh, and neither Ethier nor Gonzales were traded “at the break.”

by richwol1 on Jun 27, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh you said what I said before I said it.

This is what happens when you don’t read all the way through a thread. In my defense FaStRmAn’s post was very wrong, and therefore it was totally reasonable to correct it twice.

by BWH on Jun 27, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

lets just blame bobo for that

once holliday adn giambi left town they BOTH began hittin… esp holliday. neither were happy in oakland and getting away from there helped

by heartstopper on Jun 27, 2011 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Uh oh.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jun 27, 2011 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not really. Holliday had 3 crappy weeks to start the season because McGwire fucked with his swing

when he went back to his normal way of hitting, he wrecked shop again.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Jun 27, 2011 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wish McGwire had f-ed with his meds.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Jun 27, 2011 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Srsly.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Jun 27, 2011 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cargo and Ethier had combined to play 85 games at the ML level when they were traded

They weren’t fire sale victims, in fact Cargo was brought in via a “fire sale” move (Haren).

by BWH on Jun 27, 2011 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

please look again

rosales is NOT hitting well not withstanding his two HRs (150BA).

by heartstopper on Jun 27, 2011 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have a lot of thoughts

But I’m not going to share them. If Billy Beane cares what I think he can damn well pay me for it. Why shoud I tell him, for free, how his ball club can turn itself around?

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Jun 27, 2011 11:40 AM PDT reply actions  

why should he pay you?

What’s your experience and your history of suggesting transactions for baseball franchises that have proven successful in the past?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Jun 27, 2011 12:43 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

ZOMG, DON"T PAY FOR PAST PERFORMANCE!!

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

ummm

"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto

by emperor nobody on Jun 27, 2011 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm sure Beane comes here for advice

“Hmmmm, trade David Dejesus for Jose Bautista.” (rubs chin) “David, get Alex on the horn! I’ve got a proposition to make!”

by DDroney on Jun 27, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

We're missing the immediate problem here.

Rotoworld says that Vinnie Chulk can opt out of his contract on Friday. Vinnie Chulk!

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 12:35 PM PDT reply actions  

hahaha

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jun 27, 2011 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

He signed a minor-league contract.

I assume when they negotiated the contract he insisted that if he doesn’t make the big leagues by June it expires. The A’s probably figured, “if you don’t make the big leagues by June we probably don’t want you anyway, so OK.” So now that’s the deal. Seems reasonable to me.

If Vinnie can find another team that wants him in their rotation, good luck to him.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the Pirates should sign him.

He’s had a good year in Sacramento out of the pen.

"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth

by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 27, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Make a trade to open a spot for Taylor and play Carter every day at 1B or DH

Would be wise for the A’s to try and figure out what they have with these two before next season starts. Otherwise what…hand them jobs in spring and hope they don’t suck? Send them back to AAA again?

Release Matsui. Trade Willingham. Carter to DH. Barton back and at 1B (same problem as Carter and Taylor…wtf do you do with him going into next season?). It would be just A’s fans luck for the A’s to keep DDJ and Willingham and then have compensation eliminated in the next CBA. Would certainly trade Fuentes if possible. Would trade Bailey for a stud hitter like Brown, but not for anything less than a grade A hitting prospect.

by AgitationStation on Jun 27, 2011 1:01 PM PDT reply actions  

It's crazy to me that Carter is up and not playing.

Agree with all of this, though I’d probably be even more willing to trade the bullpen. Get as many hitting prospects as you can for Fuentes/Balfour/Bailey/Wuertz (and anyone else, if someone wants them). Beane has shown over and over again that he can rebuild a relief staff.

by thelincolndude on Jun 27, 2011 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wuertz is the kind of guy who can usually fetch something nice, so yeah, would certainly look to deal him.

Balfour I actually hope the A’s keep. Beane definitely has been great rebuilding the pen year after year, but the minors cupboard is more bare than usual, and Balfour is generally durable and reliable. If he was the make or break piece in a trade bringing back a legit high minors hitting prospect, then yeah. I wouldn’t trade him for some B prospect in the Sally League though.

by AgitationStation on Jun 27, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Beane must not like his job much.

Since he is constantly shackled by the tightwad owner Wolff. If Beane was given the green lite to bring in talent to improve the club, I believe the A’s would be the team to beat in the AL West. But unfortunately, the owner Wolff does not care if the team wins or loses. He has a track record of doing the opposite of what it takes to win. Case in point: The Allstar break, where teams who are serious about winning add a piece or 2 to help them get over the hump and make a run, the A’s will most likely be sellers to dump salary and go into a tailspin. That has been the track record of the A’s organization to raise the white flag EVEN IF THEY ARE STILL IN CONTENTION! I am not holding out any hope that this will ever change while Wolff still owns the club. Wolff uses the A’s as his own private piggy bank. He tries to run the team on a shoe string budget and he pockets all the money he saves not making the team better. He likes to dump the big salaries he assumes at the beginning of the season to lower operating costs. Salary dump is Wolff’s favorite thing to do. And as long as he keeps getting the Salary Cap Welfare check and the TV money and still turns a profit regardless of the gate, the team will never be a factor.

Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!

by FaStRmAn on Jun 27, 2011 1:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Get your facts right

Wolff made an offer to Beltre, who turned the A’s down. The A’s overpaid for Fuentes, and perhaps Balfour too, picked up a couple of players in DeJesus and Willingham who were in their arbitration years and thus, while relatively inexpensive, weren’t cheap either. The A’s signed Matsui as the resident geezer, and maybe that was a bad choice, but Vlad was around the same amount of money.

The Giants are one of the wealthiest teams in baseball, and their offense is almost equally inept. I hate defending Wolff but the fault really lies with talent evaluation and possibly hitting philosophy. On the Rangers, for instance, Kinsler and Young are homegrown; Cruz and Hamilton were properly identified and traded for; and Beltre made the choice to go to Texas instead of Oakland.

by richwol1 on Jun 27, 2011 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed...it's not because we're especially cheap

It’s either because we’re unlucky, have rotten coaching/managers or are just plain stupid. But it’s not because we’re cheap and sitting on our hands.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 27, 2011 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

If Lew Wolff wanted a piggy bank,

he could probably find a better one than the Oakland A’s.

by BWH on Jun 27, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

After thinking about it

Most teams “still in contention” are in need of bullpen help. Maybe selling high on Andrew Bailey would be our best sell. If we want to stay in the race, we need to add one of the better bats on the market during the deadline — not a move where we get a player like Scott Hairston.

The top hitters likely to be on the market are: Hunter Pence, B.J. Upton, Carlos Quentin and Carlos Beltran; then the hitters become very average and more of a risk-reward: Magglio, Mark Reynolds, Derrick Lee, Lyle Overbay, Aramis Ramirez, Carlos Pena, Alfonso Soriano, Delmon Young, Carlos Lee, Jason Kubel, and Lance Nix.

If we want to make a splash, it better be for one of the best hitters on the market. No trading prospects while taking a risk on Derrick Lee.

So, seeing as we have one of the best bullpens in the game, maybe we can afford to part with some of the arms while attempting to add a bat; which would likely take us throwing in one of our few good prospects.

If the Astros asked for Andrew Bailey and a Top 10 prospect for Hunter Pence, I would be inclined to say YES. If the Rays wanted Kurt Suzuki for B.J. Upton, I’d say YES. If we can’t get one of the top hitters, then the only players I’d want to take a risk on would be Soriano or Carlos Lee, and only if the asking price was cheap; like Balfour and a “C/B” prospect. Beltran is also appealing, and if we could sell high on one of our OF prospects I’d like such a deal.

Also, lets be realistic, there is no way Jose Reyes or Matt Kemp get traded. BUT, If for some insane reason the Dodgers put Kemp on the Market, we throw the FARM at him! Carter, Taylor, Krol, and Bailey for Kemp.

Conclusion: If Beane really thinks we have a chance, please please please attempt to add a “real bat” and not a Scott Hairston type filler. No need for that. If that is all that becomes available to us, then we don’t have a chance to contend in the 2nd Half, and I’d be willing to shift gears and sell every member of this roster not named Gio Gonzalez, Weeks, or Cahill.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jun 27, 2011 1:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Also, in regards to adding a power bat

I just looked at the Top 30 Home Run hitters this year, and only 4 will realistically be available at the deadline: Adam Lind (.314/48/15), Alfonso Soriano (.269/34/14), Carlos Pena (.222/39/14), Mark Reynolds (.227/38/14). Not exactly game changers.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jun 27, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

[Insert "we don't need a power bat, just a good position player" rant here]

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've never denied that

HRs are good, they are not necessary. Looking at the top 30 HR hitters is a poor way to start your search.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2011 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with that last statement.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 28, 2011 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pena is better than any option we have at 1B

Soriano is better than Willingham (or Matsui) too.

by PL78 on Jun 27, 2011 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Houston
If the Astros asked for Andrew Bailey and a Top 10 prospect for Hunter Pence, I would be inclined to say YES.

I would say yes to that for sure. Seems unlikely that Houston would ask for Bailey, though. Their record is even worse than ours, so I imagine they’re looking to rebuild for the future, whereas Bailey’s primary value is for right now. Makes more sense to trade Bailey to a contender.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

true

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jun 27, 2011 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

if the rays asked for Suzuki for Upton

It would’ve been done before Friedman woke up from his week long bender and realized wtf he was doing.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Jun 27, 2011 3:13 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

dammit

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jun 27, 2011 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Make the star pitcher for star hitter swap

If we still think we a have a chance to make the playoffs, let’s move Gio or Cahill as a centerpiece for finding that big power bat we need.

Selling “deadwood” for roleplayers won’t help us. We need one or two huge seasons to push this team to a division title (like Huff did for the Giants last year). We need a breakout star, and right now it has to come from the offense. Bad odds. There’s a way to improve them.

 Trade one of our aces for an elite bat and we switch where our hole is. Even one truly legit bat would mean this offense switches from atrocious to passable. But now we have a hole in the rotation.

Here’s the thing: unlike the position players, with the pitchers we have guys who can fill that hole. Our back-end rotation has shown that they are at worst decent at their job. At best, we’ve seen several breakout candidates toe the rubber for us this season.

Swap a Cahill or Gio and there’s a good chance that between Outman/Moscoso/Ross/Harden we’ll find a guy who can nearly match Cahill’s production. Maybe a small loss on the pitching a chance there’s no loss at all. And in return we finally get a guy who can actually slug on this team.

To sum up: I’d much rather bet on the deep pitching talent turning this team around instead of the current hitting “talent”

by Ciderbeck on Jun 27, 2011 1:12 PM PDT reply actions  

Note on above

I didn’t throw out any specific trade targets because I don’t know the situations on every MLB team well enough. Don’t want to get into an argument about who is avaliable and a good fit for our team. I have to believe a package of Cahill plus (Ellis/Jackson/ect.) plus (insert reliever) is enough to return an All-Star with mutliple years under contract/team control.

by Ciderbeck on Jun 27, 2011 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because he is about to become expensive soon, he has an injury history, teams place a high value on the role he plays (especially when they're looking to contend),

the A’s don’t seem to be close enough to contention that it makes sense to pay him what he’ll soon be paid for what he’ll contribute, and the A’s are dealing him from one of the few sources of strength and depth in this organization.

Wow, that’s a lot of reasons to trade Bailey!

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jun 27, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

i hate this viscous cycle

1-get prospect
2-let prospect mature into decent player
3-bring player up
4-player becomes very good
5-trade player because he is too good and we cant afford him

by bruceXbandit on Jun 27, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not a matter of being too good and unaffordable

It’s a matter of Bailey being overvalued, and the A’s having massive holes in their lineup that need to be filled and a weak farm system.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jun 27, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

i feel that he is overvalued in his role...

but if were going to get rid of him it shouldn’t be a shot in the dark. it needs to be for someone that will defiantly help us

by bruceXbandit on Jun 27, 2011 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

With the low expectations we have here,

a player would have to be defiant to help us.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

sadly no

this cycle will continue until we have the funds to pay

by bruceXbandit on Jun 27, 2011 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I will continue to believe that its not the lack of funds, but lack of hitting the lottery on a 6 WAR player

If you have that player, fiddling on the margins can have an impact. without that player we are going to have these same arguments.

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on Jun 27, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here are my reasons

1 – He’s actually talented. Teams might call asking about him. You can’t get talent in exchange for crap.

2 – Teams can sometimes panic about their closer and trade prospects for a guy who might pitch 35 innings for the rest of the year (e.g., the A’s trading Teahan for Dotel)

3 – The A’s have a pretty deep bullpen, with Devine, Balfour, and de los Santos as potential replacements for Bailey.

4 – If he blows his arm out in 2 months he’ll be worth nothing.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jun 27, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

pitching i would like to keep

Andrew Bailey
Trevor Cahill
Joey Devine
Gio Gonzalez
Josh Outman
Brad Ziegler

by bruceXbandit on Jun 27, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

2-4 are the only ones I keep

If Josh Outman brings us something good, trade him. His peripheral stats are pedestrian.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is true

Perhaps Anderson can inherit them

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

awww

i forgot about BA
i would keep him as well

by bruceXbandit on Jun 27, 2011 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dream on.

If Brett were willing to wear stirrups, he’d have done it by now.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

maybe McCarthy then

or maybe we could get his wife to make him wear them via Twitter

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Jun 27, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm on board with this project.

No need to wait for Outman to leave, though. Let’s begin the campaign as soon as Brandon is back in Oakland.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 27, 2011 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whenever you can get good SP or position player talent for a RP

You do it.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jun 27, 2011 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's one of the only guys who:

A, has a trade value equal or greater to his actual value, and B, won’t destroy this team with their absence (Cahill, Gio).

by danmerqury on Jun 27, 2011 1:49 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree on the logic of trading Bailey

But before he came back this year, the closers weren’t exactly shutting it down. In the current crop of relievers we have, who seems the most viable to become solid or somewhat dependable replacement?

by rightbackin on Jun 27, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm afraid management would slot Fuentes in there.

But we have a nice amount of candidates. Balfour and Devine, most likely.

by danmerqury on Jun 27, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Devine, easily imo

he’s been a lights out closer in the past

Also have FDLS in the wings…

Kiper+Fosse=Mute

by CorpseOfChavez on Jun 27, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agree. That is the injury that has hurt us the most this year.

Even more than all the starting pitching injuries.

A’s are 6 back. I know Bailey is not perfect but he would have saved the majority of the 7 blown saves if he was healthy and maybe even not lost some of those tie games that other RPs lost.

With a healthy Bailey, we’d be right there.

by easyraider on Jun 27, 2011 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

You have to give yourself a shot at winning with this rotation

Not necessarily in 2011, but at some point in the next 4 years or so. It took a lot to put these pitchers together, and they are the envy of the AL. With a pitching staff like that, you really aren’t that far from contention. Cahill, Anderson, & Gio should all be a major part of the next A’s team that makes the playoffs. Weeks, Suzuki and Pennington shouldn’t be moved either. Anyone else on the roster, go for it.

by BWH on Jun 27, 2011 2:28 PM PDT reply actions  

Suzuki and Pennington

The only reason Suzuki isn’t below average is because, at present, the average catcher really sucks. But he can’t throw, and these days, he can’t hit either. Pennington at least can hit a little, and has decent range and a good arm. It’s possible, over the next couple of years, that he’ll achieve the consistency that UZR loves, and then maybe the statheads will come to appreciate him. Pennington would be fine in a better line-up; Suzuki should be replaced in the next year or so.

by richwol1 on Jun 27, 2011 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Probably right on Suzuki

He’s really fallen off a cliff the last 12 months. This is why you don’t play a catcher 148 and 147 games over the course of two consecutive seasons.

by BWH on Jun 27, 2011 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like this idea -- save Willingham

I also feel like our team can ride a unicycle down that fine line of dealing a few bullpen arms to contenders while also being a player looking to add a bat. All the teams in contention will be looking to strengthen positions of weakness while not giving up much in return (so they will be shipping prospects) while teams out of contention whether it be due to the strength of their division (Blue Jays) or because they simply aren’t any good (Astros/Padres) will be looking to rebuild. I think we should first target teams like the Blue Jays (Adam Lind, Aaron Hill), the Astros (Hunter Pence, Carlos Lee, M.Bourn), the Cubs (Soriano, Carlos Pena, Aramis Ramirez, G. Soto), the Marlins (Gaby Sanchez), the Mets (Carlos Beltran), the Pirates (Lyle Overbay, Neil Walker), and the Nationals (Lance Nix, Michael Morse) and see if we could possibly land any average bat at a minium cost. If Beane comes to find that he would have to give up more prospects than it is worth to receive any of these average bats — save Pence or Beltran — than I’d say start the fire sale. Trade DDJ, Ellis, Sweeney for any possible C level prospect. Then (and again, this is only if Beane finds that there are no trade partners that will work for us in adding a bat), ask a high price for the arms of Balfour and Wuertz, and just get any prospect you can for Fuentes.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jun 27, 2011 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I forgot to mention the second rule of this thread

No mention of Barry Bonds.

Michael Jackson either.

Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?

by WhizDad on Jun 27, 2011 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Brett Favre FTW!

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 28, 2011 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Trade Willingham, Suzuki and some relief

for Zobrist and Jaso. Still under contract and cheap. Super versatile Zobrist and high OBP Jaso at catcher.

by Glomar on Jun 27, 2011 6:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Hey, mine had crappy players + prospects. haha

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jun 27, 2011 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

General thought: Batting average isn't a good way to evaluate hitters.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jun 27, 2011 6:53 PM PDT reply actions  

sweeney has a good arm and is

a good defender. something like 160games w/o an error.

by heartstopper on Jun 27, 2011 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Errors are not a good way to evaluate defenders

(not saying Sweeney isn’t a good one, just saying)

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 27, 2011 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd love to get Brandon Belt over here.

I’d move Bailey strait up for him.
or
some combo of RP not named Bailey + Green+

by nationalB on Jun 27, 2011 7:12 PM PDT reply actions  

I'd rather have Ishikawa

But Belt wouldn’t be too bad either. But for Bailey? Why? They have Pubic Hair Wilson..

by tidus on Jun 27, 2011 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rather have Ishikawa?!

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jun 27, 2011 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Really? Travis Ishikawa? For Bailey?

While we’re at it, can we get Juan Pierre for Cahill?

by sc00by on Jun 27, 2011 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

but, um, SF doesn't need relievers.

Now, granted, if they are going to move PFOP to first base next year and need a C anyway, then maybe they’d be interested in Suzuki, but they have some other C in the minors that they like, too.

Suzuki + Ellis wouldn’t be enough to get Belt from them, either, but those are the only guys I’d consider sending to SF.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Jun 27, 2011 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sabes might consider Suzuki

He’d be an upgrade for them now, i guess. And If he thinks Posey wont be ready for 2012 he’d be an insurance policy. And if he is, trade Zooks off for whatever piece he needs then.

Suzuki+Cardenas? still kinda weak

by nationalB on Jun 27, 2011 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

We need a 3B

We should look for a 3B that can hit decently well. Who is out there? We have established the A’s have too many relievers and outfielders.

by fjiandan on Jun 27, 2011 7:58 PM PDT reply actions  

I guess I don't understand

why its always a “well, this year ain’t it, so unload everyone” mentality. Winning teams aren’t assembled in 1 year and then win the World Series. We need to keep the good guys that perform together for a few years and add to it and we’ll get there in a couple of years. Keep the pitchers. Keep Willingham because he is producing. No he’s not Josh Hamilton but he’s the best we have, so why unload him for prospects who won’t be able to contribute in the bigs for a year or more. You are simply taking this year’s team of some good some bad, and replacing them with some good, some bad for the same result next year, and the next.

How about holding on to Cahill, Gio, Anderson, Bailey, Willingham, Penny, Coco (he too is a producer), for a few years instead of tossing them aside because we’re not gonna make it this year. Got news for you Dan Haren trade bringer uppers… we haven’t won the World Series since that trade either. BUILD, not constantly REBUILD.

I miss Eric Plunk

by chuckcheeze on Jun 27, 2011 9:14 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree with your general premise,

however Willingham might not have a spot on this team. If he plays left, his overall value is depleted by his poor defense. DH seems like the position that would be the best fit for him, however hopefully, Chris Carter will be occupying that position for years to come.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Jun 27, 2011 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is funny

Henry Rodriguez is now in for the Nationals in a 3-3 game, Bottom 9 .vs. the Halos. Lets see if he can preserve the game for Washington.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jun 27, 2011 9:47 PM PDT reply actions  

he did

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Jun 27, 2011 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes and Henry pitched 2.1 innings in that game. Johnson doesn't seem bound by the

“relievers must pitch a maximum of one inning” rule.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Jun 28, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

yea, what's up w/ that?

that seems almost new to the A’s this year. I understand that Bailey and Devine are newly returned from injury (tho yes, of vastly different degrees), but as for others, why can’t they pitch two innings? I hear A’s announcers say this recently – none of the relievers are good for more than one inning…

by my_cat_max on Jun 28, 2011 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wish List

I would like to see the A’s solve the 3rd base sitution. You may be able to pry Josh Bell from the O’s. They have Reynolds there (3rd) now and Bell is MLB ready according to what I read. Carter and Taylor and yes, Recker.
We have very few on-the-field pieces that would net an upgrade. Maybe Suzuki and Ross for somebody, maybe Willingham and Fuentes to a contender for somebody.

Baja been here

by bajablue on Jun 28, 2011 8:12 AM PDT reply actions  

I would try to acquire Escobar at SS from Toronto,

and Alex Gordon from Kansas City!!!

Who knows what KC’s asking price is for Gordon, but it’s Dayton Moore…

Every man for himself...

by MMunoz33 on Jun 28, 2011 10:13 AM PDT reply actions  

Yeah, Either sure would.

I can’t believe BIlly gave that guy away.

Wait, what?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 28, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Alex Gordon and move him back to 3B

I have spent a lot of time wondering what it would take to pry Gordon away from KC. With his pedigree and the way he’s hitting this year, I see no reason he couldn’t be the answer for us at 3rd, his natural position. The problem is figuring out what it would take to get him. KC has ridiculous near-MLB ready pitching depth (truly ridiculous even with Lamb going down to TJS). So I can’t image they’re looking for starting pitching. Their outfield has actually performed way, way better than you would have guessed (6.6 WAR already from Melky, Gordon, Frenchy). They have Wil Myers on the way in the OF. In the infield, they’re pretty much set looking forward, assuming some combination of Colon and Alcides Escobar can handle 2nd & SS. Their bullpen is pretty bad, but I would think they’re not close enough to competing to be actively trying to bolster there. So, assuming they do not view Melky & Frenchy as the long term solutions in the OF, they could probably use a close to MLB ready stud OFer, of which we have none. So, this is a long way of saying, I do not see any realistic path to acquiring Gordon, which is really too bad, because I think he probably could have been had pretty cheaply this past off season.

As an aside, I think Butler is probably also “get-able” from KC but likely at a stiffer price than Gordon. Either guy would help us immensely. Butler’s still young and has taken a big, big step forward in the BB/OBP department this year (BB rate from 10% to 14%). I think he still has a lot of upside in his bat. But again, the Royals are probably the absolute worst team for us to try to match up with in a trade, IMO.

A kitten bats around a ball of yarn but what he's really saying is, "You know I can't knit, motherf'er." That is one foul mouthed kitten. - Mitch Hedberg (RIP)

by RayRay59 on Jun 28, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think we could get Gordon for bullpen arms,

but I think the Royals need some more relievers. Soria went through a bumpy stretch, but I think they have a good set up man. Other than that, I’m pretty sure their bullpen is average at best.

by sums95 on Jun 28, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like the Alex Gordon idea

though I have no idea what the Royals would want from us in return.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Jun 28, 2011 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Two last names?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 28, 2011 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, we've got plenty to offer them then.

Landon, Ryan, Conor, Tyson, Graham.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 29, 2011 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, I need to remove Tyson from my list.

On reflection, I see he has only one last name.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Jun 29, 2011 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

And one discount store.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 29, 2011 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's too late to get Gordon.

He would now cost what a good baseball player costs, namely, a lot.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 29, 2011 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

SELL

trade them all !!!!!!!!!!

after tonight’s game, these mofo’s suuuuuuuck!.

by sf drift king on Jun 29, 2011 10:26 PM PDT reply actions  

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